Bannette

[PlayaFritz]

I need a ghost for my last spot in my team so i can get past pesky focus punchers and rapid spinners. I know bannette wasn't blessed wtih the greatest stats, but ill have to make do...I was wondering what a good nature and moveset would be, I was thinking of doning one of those annoying movesets

Bannette@Toxic/Flame orb
Frisk
-Shadowsneak/ShadowClaw
-Facade
-Trick
-?

I really want him to be more of annoyer/a pkmn to finish of others.
Any Suggestions?

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Put on Will-O-Wisp definately, especially for how common physical sweeper are in the DP metagame.

[Deathmage129]

Flame Orb for the item as it inflicts burn and will cut their attack, so you could trick that onto them. Confuse Ray seems like a good last move on Banette.

[bossman34]

heres a good set that has what they mentioned

Banette @ Flame Orb
Impish/Careful
252 Hp/100 Def/132 SDef/20 Atk
-Trick
-Confuse Ray
-Shadow Claw
-Disable

[Deathmage129]

Maybe Knock Off over Disable

[Towlie]

Banette is one of the worst ghost pokemon in the game. Lol.


Shadow Claw/Will-O-Wisp/Knock Off/Confuse Ray

Probably best you're going to get. It's stats are mediocre and it's movepool sucks. I'd find a replacement.

[Samson]

noooooooooooo. you should not be using it as a defensive poke... EVER.

Banette @ Choice Scarf
Naive/Hasty Nature
Ability: Insomnia
244 SPD/200 SP ATK/64 ATK
-Shadow Claw
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice or Ground/Icy Wind
-Trick/Destiny Bond

good for taking sleep powder/spore/hypnosis on the switch and causing good damage, or using trick to screw with the opposing blissey. destiny bond is a crappy move but it might come in handy if you end up in a sticky situation. otherwise, it's a shame bannette doesn't have any physical fighting type moves.

here's another moveset that would make a good starter:

Bannette @ Focus Sash
Ability: Frisk
Quiet Nature
252 SP ATK/252 ATK/4 HP
-Shadow Claw
-Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fighting
-Knock Off
-Trick Room

you basically set trick room on the first turn, and if the foe has a threatening item, you use knock off and let bannette die to let something like Tangrowth, Azumarill or Camerupt to wreak havoc with their slowness. if they switch after you set trick room and you have nothing safe to switch in, then just keep blasting shadow claws or thunderbolts at them until they kill bannette, or maybe even burning them and switching out. those who switch usually switch in something like blissey, so you should definitely have a blissey counter on your team.

[PlayaFritz]

He did get a better physical movepool than he had in Ruby in Saphire though, is there anyway to make him offenseive, yet scrwing with the opponent at the same time?

[Samson]

no, he didn't get a better physical movepool. in fact, he got a WORSE one. why? shadow ball is 80 base power while shadow claw is 70. shadow claw is the only thing it can manage with nowadays.

if you want to be offensive but annoying, use the second moveset.

[Towlie]

Banette can't be offensive. It's has good attack. It's special attack is average. Way too low for Choice Scarf. The only thing a thunderbolt from it could kill is maybe a gyarados. MAYBE.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

It would take two tbolts to take out gyrados. Banette's sp. attack is that weak.

[Samson]

for the first set, it would be 2HKO with tbolt on gyara.

on the second set, it would definitely OHKO it.

and towlie: do you understand what you just said... you said it has good attack and average special defense (btw, average is base 75, not 83) but it couldn't be offensive. so you would suggest it be defensive with its 63-65 base defenses? get real.

[Towlie]

Lol. It's movepool is bad, meaning it can't attack. And that really isn't a defensive set. It's an annoyer set, which is about the best you can do for Banette.

Seriously, if you can't 1HKO a Gyarados with a Thunderbolt, you really need to reconsider using it. If it can only 2hko a gyarados, just imagine what it could do to pokemon that are neutral to it.

Sure, Banette has higher special attack than Def and Sp. Def. Okay, but it's movepool is useless. If it's movepool was good, sure attack with it. If a pokemon had a movepool of all support moves except tackle with 150 base Atk and 65 Base Defenses, would you make it into a Choice Band tackler?

[Samson]

Lol. It's movepool is bad, meaning it can't attack. And that really isn't a defensive set. It's an annoyer set, which is about the best you can do for Banette.

Seriously, if you can't 1HKO a Gyarados with a Thunderbolt, you really need to reconsider using it. If it can only 2hko a gyarados, just imagine what it could do to pokemon that are neutral to it.

Sure, Banette has higher special attack than Def and Sp. Def. Okay, but it's movepool is useless. If it's movepool was good, sure attack with it. If a pokemon had a movepool of all support moves except tackle with 150 base Atk and 65 Base Defenses, would you make it into a Choice Band tackler?

what are you talking about,... tackle and choice band has nothing to do with this. being an annoyer has nothing to do with bannette because it can't take hits.

and it can OHKO Gyarados with a beneficial nature and at least 216 sp atk evs. get your facts straight.

[Towlie]

Yay. An attacking Banette can successfully kill ONE pokemon

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Two, magikarp! In all seriousness, banette can be used. It's just Really hard. I liked the one MS Samson posted.

[Towlie]

Banette was barely UU in 3rd generation. in D/P he just got a downgrade. I think Flareon has more use than this. And THAT is saying something.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Hey, don't take a shot at Flare-bear! Though you're right...

[Samson]

the second set OHKOs gengar (Shadow Claw), KOs Starmie after SR damage (Shadow Claw), 2HKOs Skarmory (Thunderbolt), OHKOs Alakazam, 2HKOs anything with nuetral damage to Shadow Claw and 75 or less base defense with 80 or less base HP, OHKOs Mismagius (Shadow Claw), OHKOs Gyara, OHKOs Aerodactyl, and 2HKOs Slowking/Slowbro. these pokes are the most overused starters, hence using it as a starter.

that's something worth to consider.

and about the comment on flareon: really... who can flareon OHKO other than Dry Skin Toxicroak, Parasect and other weak bug or grass types? sadly its best moves are Fire Fang and Nature Power Leichi Berry (80 Physical Grass), which probably wouldn't even OHKO a Swampert/Rhyperior. don't make comments you can't back up.

[PlayaFritz]

Hey Samson, do you think i could put destiny Bond over Knock off in your second set, i took teh time to egg move it, so i dont want it to go to waste

[j3llii3]

put will-o-wisp its a good attack =]

[Samson]

yeah if you want to replace knock off, go with will-o-wisp.

omg, i forgot to mention that after it sets up trick room on the first turn, it OHKOs yanmega, OHKOs ninjask, OHKOs Gallade, OHKOs Gardevoir, 2HKOs infernape, 2HKOs jolteon, OHKOs Medicham, 2HKOs Heracross, and 2-3HKOs Dusknoir.

that not enough for you?

[Towlie]

Funny how you just make up what it OHKOs and 2HKOs. Let's run some actual damage calculations, shall we?


(All defending pokemon are Max HP/Max Def)

Shadow Claw vs Gengar - [Damage: 70.99% - 83.64%]

So he can 2HKO Gengar.

Thunderbolt vs Skarmory - [Damage: 46.11% - 54.19%]

Hmm, interesting. 3HKO, counting the leftovers recovery and if you don't get max damage twice in a row, which is unlikely.

Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - [Damage: 62.69% - 73.86%]

Wow, are you serious? It can only 2HKO a Gyarados?

Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - [Damage: 40.66% - 47.80%]

3HKO on something with defenses that bad.

Thunderbolt vs Slowbro - [Damage: 36.04% - 42.39%]

That's a 3-4HKO when you include leftovers recovery.

Shadow Claw vs Slowbro - [Damage: 40.61% - 47.72%]

A little more, still a 3HKO. Include Slack Off and good luck killing this little guy.


That's all the damage calculations I'm going to do for now, but I have yet to find something that Banette OHKOs.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

MAybe that's why it's NU/UU. Really, banette is usable, it's just VERY hard to use it. ANyone who thingks banette can survive a powered up EQ from gyarados is crazy. DD + EQ = OHKOed banette. I'm not certain on that, but pretty sure. For a NU pokemon, banette isn't all too bad.

[Towlie]

Oh, of course. His base attack is pretty good. Easily usable in NU. I'd say he'd get ranked up in UU though, even though his movepool is really bad.

Not familiar with UU in D/P though.

[PlayaFritz]

Thats why you give him the focus sash to sfrew them over...Also, ShadowClaw does have a high crit Ratio...


Edit:Also, when you ran the damage calculations, half the pokemon there would never even touch their defensive stats when ev'ing so Banette would OHKO half of them

[Samson]

Funny how you just make up what it OHKOs and 2HKOs. Let's run some actual damage calculations, shall we?


(All defending pokemon are Max HP/Max Def)

Shadow Claw vs Gengar - [Damage: 70.99% - 83.64%]

So he can 2HKO Gengar.

Thunderbolt vs Skarmory - [Damage: 46.11% - 54.19%]

Hmm, interesting. 3HKO, counting the leftovers recovery and if you don't get max damage twice in a row, which is unlikely.

Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - [Damage: 62.69% - 73.86%]

Wow, are you serious? It can only 2HKO a Gyarados?

Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - [Damage: 40.66% - 47.80%]

3HKO on something with defenses that bad.

Thunderbolt vs Slowbro - [Damage: 36.04% - 42.39%]

That's a 3-4HKO when you include leftovers recovery.

Shadow Claw vs Slowbro - [Damage: 40.61% - 47.72%]

A little more, still a 3HKO. Include Slack Off and good luck killing this little guy.


That's all the damage calculations I'm going to do for now, but I have yet to find something that Banette OHKOs.

dude, did you even take Quiet Nature, 252 SP ATK and 252 ATK evs into consideration? those calculations are inaccurate.

one, Gengar never has max hp or def. with 60 base def and HP, it's an immediate OHKO unless it has focus sash, which it usually does.

quiet nature to skarm with max hp thunderbolt... no way, it's a 2hko unless someone has the gall to give it sp defense evs.

it would 2HKO a bulky gyara which is the standard... that's still good damage considering its 100 base sp def.

it OHKOs standard Aerodactly. get your facts straight. none, if any, aeros will actually have ANY HP evs or def evs.

i forgot slowbro had 110 base def and is usually held at Bold nature, max hp evs. it would be a 3HKO, but with High CH rate, a Slowbro and Slowking would eventually get KOd with Shadow Claw even if they plan on stalling with Slack Off + leftovers recovery.

so, now that you've made a fool of yourself by insisting that all these pokes have max hp and def evs in competitive battle, why haven't you retracted any of my other damages?

[Towlie]

That's how damage calculations are ran. I used max Atk and Sp. Atk Evs on Banette.

Those calculations are not innaccurate. Every pokemon has 510 EVs to use. It's impossible to run a max HP and Def Gengar? No, it isn't. You need to convince me that a Shadow Claw on a Gengar is GUARANTEED to OHKO it. If it can't take down a Max HP/Def Gengar, it's not taking out much else.

And my facts aren't straight when you're saying Skarmory and Slowbro are common leads? Haha. Funny stuff.

But since Banette is so great, why don't you head down to Shoddybattle and use a lead Banette vs a decent player. Then show us the battle log. I'd love to see this Banette taking down all these OUs.

And btw, I ran a calculation on a "Standard Aerodactyl" Let's say it ran a 4 Hp/252 atk/252 Spd.

Damage: 65.23% - 76.49%

Oh yes. That really is a OHKO on a standard Aerodactyl.

[Punishment]

Funny how you just make up what it OHKOs and 2HKOs. Let's run some actual damage calculations, shall we?


(All defending pokemon are Max HP/Max Def)

Shadow Claw vs Gengar - [Damage: 70.99% - 83.64%]

So he can 2HKO Gengar.

Thunderbolt vs Skarmory - [Damage: 46.11% - 54.19%]

Hmm, interesting. 3HKO, counting the leftovers recovery and if you don't get max damage twice in a row, which is unlikely.

Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - [Damage: 62.69% - 73.86%]

Wow, are you serious? It can only 2HKO a Gyarados?

Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - [Damage: 40.66% - 47.80%]

3HKO on something with defenses that bad.

Thunderbolt vs Slowbro - [Damage: 36.04% - 42.39%]

That's a 3-4HKO when you include leftovers recovery.

Shadow Claw vs Slowbro - [Damage: 40.61% - 47.72%]

A little more, still a 3HKO. Include Slack Off and good luck killing this little guy.


That's all the damage calculations I'm going to do for now, but I have yet to find something that Banette OHKOs.

Your argument is flawed one way though. Why would someone run Max HP and Defense on Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Gengar. Skarmory is a duh and so is Slowbro but the listed three makes me lol if they are sticking those EVs in Defense and HP.

Any Pokemon in the right situation can pull something off. If the guy wants to use Bannete let him.

[Samson]

omg, did you seriously just suggest playing on Shoddybattle? lmao shoddybattle isn't even fully developed for one, and two, it sucks. i don't use bannette because i simply don't like it, but it could do considerable damage to any standard team.

and slowbro IS a popular lead. have you ever battled outside of shoddy? otherwise, you'd know.

it seems like you've completely lost point of what you were originally saying... first it can't be offensive, although it has manageable offenses, and then it should just be annoyer, and then flareon is a better offensive poke than it (lol), and now just because it can't OHKO everything, it's crap?

i'll say it again... get real.

[sims796]

I don't get how damage calulations are done. Aren't they, now what's the word, ranging? No damage is as set in stone as what Towlie said. Is it?

The only thing that turns me off Banette is speed. Since it has Trick Room, it's better than Flareon to me.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Better than Flareon isn't saying saying much. There's a reason n one uses banette, but only pokemon like luvdisc are unusable.

[sims796]

Ah, I was just sayin....

But Flareon might be useable, but it'll be a stretch. Banette is, as you stated, UU, but far from unusable.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Many UU pokemon are actually very good, like cradily. Banette isn't one of 'em, but, let's forget I said that. It's a matter of the movepool and all that stuff. Most, if not all, UUs are usable, it's the NU we should be targeting, like magikarp (exageration).

[Towlie]

Lol. Doesn't matter if Shoddy isn't fully developed. It has everything wifi has, except for Focus Energy I believe. All the damage calculations are pretty right on.

I'm just guessing you can't win with a Banette, tbh.

And no, I can't battle outside Shoddy because my wifi is messed up. Does that mean I don't know the metagame? No.

I haven't lost point of what I was saying at all. If you reread my first post, you'd understand. I actually said there were way better options than Banette, implying that it sucks. And that point still stands.

It's slow. It will be OHKOed by any pokemon. Focus Sash? Oh wow, you get 1 free hit. Since Banette OHKOs barely anything, it will just be an easy 6-5 lead for your opponent.

And since you think Banette does so much damage to a standard team, use it on Shoddy. Everyone uses standard teams there. Let's list some standards that just laugh in Banette's face:

Electivire
Blissey
Cressilia
Weavile
Garchomp
Tyrannitar
Salamence
Hippowdon
Bronzong
Jirachi
Breloom
Weezing

Just to name a few.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

For the millionth time, that's why he's UU, there are better options. We don't need to keep reiterating that.

[sims796]

Oh God, it doesn't OHKO, what a nightmare!!!

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Yeah, well put. Really, this thread is now more an argument about banette. It isn't amazing or anything, plain and simple.

[sims796]

And to add to what you said, it isn't useless, as well. Bad enough not to earn it an honorable mention for UU's, but good enough to use if you really like him.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Yeah, so anything else about banette? Anybody want another moveset or something?

[Towlie]

Which is what I've been trying to get at. Dusknoir, Mismagius, Gengar, Spiritomb all get the job done better than Banette. It is barely usable in UU, let alone in standard play.

I couldn't even get Banette to work in 3rd generation in netbattle. I always tried fitting it into a UU team. Only thing it could really dent was a Hypno. Lol.

[sims796]

Look, stop reiterating what we said. It's bad, but usable, if you really wantd to. I use UU, when OU does what they do better. But I like those UU.

[Punishment]

Which is what I've been trying to get at. Dusknoir, Mismagius, Gengar, Spiritomb all get the job done better than Banette. It is barely usable in UU, let alone in standard play.

I couldn't even get Banette to work in 3rd generation in netbattle. I always tried fitting it into a UU team. Only thing it could really dent was a Hypno. Lol.

On the otherhand if a person enjoys using a Banette let them. The point is to enjoy battling with Pokemon you like. Not vice-versa.

We all know Dusknoir, Mismagius, Gengar and Spiritomb get the job done better but certain people have different preferences.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Exactly. Look at my team, not one OU on it, and I'm proud of it! Sure there are better walls than Hypno, but he's on of my favorite psychic types, so I use him. If every single player used skarmbliss, garchomp, gengar, salamence, and, snorlax, my pokemon emerald would be on ebay...right now. Originality is very important.

[PlayaFritz]

I agree, I know Banette isn't that great, but due to the lack of ghost types(What are there like 6?) he is the only one i like at all, Mismagius is ok, but what is it really used for?

[bossman34]

Mismagius is a great choice for a somewhat UU special sweeper/support.

Mismagius @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Wise Glasses
Timid
252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 Hp
-Calm Mind
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt/Energy Ball
-Will-o-wisp/Thunder Wave

i am pretty sure mismagius is UU, though ive been wrong before =X