Set-Up Team, Help Needed...

[Tortured_Soul]

Drapion@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp. Def

Toxic Spikes
Knock Off
Whirlwind
Agility

Toxic Spikes set-up here. Want to know the risks of running this, with the possibility of enabling Guts on Heracross. Knock Off can help with
Choice pokemon and the like, but Sash's won't be a problem on this team. Unsure on the last 2 slots, Agility to enable a faster Whirlwind, but perhaps
not needed, with Ninjask and all. Help on the last 2 attacks please.

----------------------

Hippowdon@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk

Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Ice Fang
Slack Off

Stealth Rock over roar, otherwise standard. Can take the Electric attacks launched at Skarm, and with Earthquake and Ice Fang is able to do
some damage. Slack Off to Recover when needed. (Obviously...)

-----------------------

Dugtrio@Life Orb
Adamant
252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
Arena Trap

Earthquake
Sucker Punch
Stone Edge
Aerial Ace

Revenge killer at its best. Chosen Arena Trap over Sand Veil apart from the nice look of it. Duggy fails without Arena Trap, as I can see now that with Switches to Zam and Gengar, Sucker Punch works wonders.
----------------------

Dusknoir@Leftovers
Careful
252 HP, 76 Def, 180 Sp. Def

Rest
Sleep Talk
Brick Break
Thunderpunch

Basically, there to absorb rapid spin, and can resist status with Rest, then Sleep Talk away with Brick Break and Thunderpunch. Does anyone have an
Idea for a better 2 attacking moves? (Possibly need a STAB attack, but unsure on which...)

---------------------

Skarmory@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 156 Def, 100 Atk

Whirlwind
Spikes
Roost
Brave Bird

Standard Skarm with Brave Bird over Drill Peck for more attacking power.

---------------------

Forretress@Leftovers/Shed Shell
Relaxed
252 HP, 162 Atk, 96 Def

Gyro Ball
Spikes/Light Screen
Rapid Spin
Explosion

Rapid Spinner, with Explosion to get out quick and to dint the opponent, Gyro Ball for a very strong STAB. Unsure on Spikes or Light Screen, spikes is there if Skarm faints, and Light Screen for the increased Sp. Def.

CHANGES:

- Sand Veil - Arena Trap on Dugtrio
- Taunt added over Night Slash on Ninjask
- Forretress over Ninjask



PREVIOUS POKEMON:

Ninjask@Focus Sash
Jolly
252 Spd, 252 Atk, 6 HP

Baton Pass
Swords Dance
X-Scissor/Protect
Taunt

Pure Baton Passer to Duggy or Skarmory. Skarmory value in the ability to move first with Whirlwind (Rest Talk set talking here), while Swords Dance and Speed for Duggy to hit harder. Taunt for those phazers wanting to blow the stat ups out of the water. X-Scissor for a STAB'd attack that can do some damage, but Protect to get another Speed Boost going.

So please, any help is much appreciated. This team is still in development, so I can do anything at all to change them.

Regards,

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

the ONLY point in usin dugtrio is a finisher with arena trap. It is A MUST. Without it Duggy loses LOTS of power.

[Tortured_Soul]

ok, so definately Arena Trap on Duggy? (Switches...) I was leaning towards it anyway. :)

~M51

[evilcheese]

ninjask wants substitute

*(filler)*

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

ninjask wants substitute

*(filler)*

With focus sash? Um, no.

But that brings up an interesting point-why are you using a focus sash ninjask without a rapid spinner? Because SR owns it :0

[Tortured_Soul]

It is gonna be my lead, so the whole point of it is to pass the stat ups and then get the hell out. I am counting on it either getting hit hard enough to be hurt, or at least hurt enought to disable Focus Sash. If it isn't hurt, then all the better, I can stat up some more, and perhaps have some time attacking until I am attacked.

~M51

[Kayashi]

Substitute Ninjask overall is a much better way for it. It can last 4 turns Substituting at least while holding Leftovers. Focus Sash only allows it to be used once.

[Tortured_Soul]

Yes, but that is for the Speed Boost overall. I am still looking for the Swords Dance effect, and that may not be an option with Substitute, because most will be able to take out the sub anyway. Which is better then?

Ninjask@Focus Sash - Night Slash/ (Other)

or

Ninjask @ Liechi Berry / (Other) - Substitute

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Substitute Ninjask overall is a much better way for it. It can last 4 turns Substituting at least while holding Leftovers. Focus Sash only allows it to be used once.

Just to point out PHazers will switch in at once to roar away your sub.

And you'll probably be needing to switch ninjask out more than a few times, you need a spinner anyways.

[Britney Spears]

You realize Whirlwind ALWAYS goes second, right? And no using fillers.

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

You realize Whirlwind ALWAYS goes second, right? And no using fillers.

It doesn't matter. No matter who ninjask passes the sub to, unless it has suction cups, the passed stats are PHazed to oblivion. It you see taunt coming, you can OHKO ninjask with about anything.

[Tortured_Soul]

Just to point out PHazers will switch in at once to roar away your sub.

And you'll probably be needing to switch ninjask out more than a few times, you need a spinner anyways.

Ok, so what would you suggest best for this in regards to a Spinner? Forretress?

You realize Whirlwind ALWAYS goes second, right? And no using fillers.

I didn't actually, does Roar do the same?

It doesn't matter. No matter who ninjask passes the sub to, unless it has suction cups, the passed stats are PHazed to oblivion. It you see taunt coming, you can OHKO ninjask with about anything.


So what do you suggest then?

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Ok, so what would you suggest best for this in regards to a Spinner? Forretress?

Forry works. Also starmie, claydol, the usual pokemon.

I didn't actually, does Roar do the same?

Yeah, it also goes last all the time. However, if you're running a resttalk set this is ignored. Oh the fun!

So what do you suggest then?

~M51

I suggest keeping your ninjask with focus sash and running it with taunt, SD, X-Scizzor and protect. Also, amke the HP it has an odd number so it can switch into two SRs in the case your spinner...kicks the bucket.

[Tortured_Soul]

I suggest keeping your ninjask with focus sash and running it with taunt, SD, X-Scizzor and protect. Also, amke the HP it has an odd number so it can switch into two SRs in the case your spinner...kicks the bucket.


kk, so Ninjask with Focus Sash, and what HP IV should it be then???

As for the Rapid Spinners, I like either Foretress or Claydol, but then couldn't Donphan be an option also?

With the rest talk set on skarm, how is it run?

Should I ditch Drapion for the Spinner?

~M51

[Britney Spears]

Skarmory value in the ability to move first with Whirlwind.

I was talking about that. X.x;

[Syaoran]

It doesn't matter. No matter who ninjask passes the sub to, unless it has suction cups, the passed stats are PHazed to oblivion. It you see taunt coming, you can OHKO ninjask with about anything.

That being said, Cradily is a good pokemon to pass speed and swords dance to. Especially since your team is a sandstorm team. At least then you won't have 3 pokes weak to grass. <_<;

Also, Focus Sash Ninjask in a sandstorm team? that's quite contradicting yourself.

[ultranerd57]

ninjask wants substitute

*(filler)*

Actually doesn't Ninjask use Protect to get a final speed boost to pass on to his ally or use before swords dance and after the focus sash kicks in to get two speed boosts.

[Tortured_Soul]

That being said, Cradily is a good pokemon to pass speed and swords dance to. Especially since your team is a sandstorm team. At least then you won't have 3 pokes weak to grass. <_<;

Also, Focus Sash Ninjask in a sandstorm team? that's quite contradicting yourself.

As said, lead off pokemon, but now thinking about that. Anti says keep the Sash, because after the first switch, it won't be used again due to it being on 1 HP. Perhaps as a quick BP, but only outside of Sandstorm, as you mentioned.

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

Also, Focus Sash Ninjask in a sandstorm team? that's quite contradicting yourself.

I feel horribly stupid now. But then sub ninjask won't work either...why would you use ninjask on a sandstorm team anyways?

But wow, I need to read more or something :0

[Tortured_Soul]

ok, so ditch the Ninjask altogether, or what? Again, it is really only gonna be used once, because it would be hopeless on 1 HP anyway...

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

ok, so ditch the Ninjask altogether, or what? Again, it is really only gonna be used once, because it would be hopeless on 1 HP anyway...

~M51

It'll be at 0 HP with sandstorm damage ;)

Scizor, however, can pass in sandstorms if you prefer that route.

[Tortured_Soul]

I suppose, but I can go with the Spinner over Ninjask anyway. What do you think, do I need to pass, is it worth it, because I would need a Rest-Talk Skarm then...

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

why would you need resttalk?

But skarm needs enough Def EVs to eclipse 400 Def.

[Syaoran]

Why would it be useless if you can use Substitute and leftovers? at 81% HP you have a speed boost you can pass. If they didn't bring out a phazer, keep going. If they did, Baton Pass to Cradily. It wouldn't be that useful, but you could try "dry" Baton Passing when you forsee a switch, so you counter their counter. :p

[Tortured_Soul]

why would you need resttalk?

But skarm needs enough Def EVs to eclipse 400 Def.

To utilize the Speed to allow Whirlwind to go first...

~M51

I could just ditch the Hippowdon for Donphan, which can act as a Rapid Spinner and a SR support...

How is that?

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

You don't need speed for roar to go first. It doesn't really matter.

[Tortured_Soul]

So ditch the Ninjask for Donphan, who can rapid spin and SR.

Would I need SR on it if Hippowdon does? Doubtful. I can give it Roar / RS / Earthquake / Ice Shard.

I can lead with Drapion then.

Is that Move Set ok?

~M51

[Britney Spears]

To utilize the Speed to allow Whirlwind to go first...

~M51

I could just ditch the Hippowdon for Donphan, which can act as a Rapid Spinner and a SR support...

How is that?

~M51


WHIRLWIND ALWAYS GOES SECOND NO MATTER HOW FAST YOU ARE. The only time it goes first is if the opponent uses Roar or Whirlwind. Ahem.

[Syaoran]

Donphan sucks on stalling teams. You're making your team even more grass weak if you use him. Forretress is much better.

[Tortured_Soul]

EDIT: But then the whole point of the RS was to shield Ninjask, so that is pointless too. Oh well, still would be useful I suppose...

I could use Scizor for the Baton Passer I suppose...

~M51

WHIRLWIND ALWAYS GOES SECOND NO MATTER HOW FAST YOU ARE. The only time it goes first is if the opponent uses Roar or Whirlwind. Ahem.

If you had read the Previous post, this is put to the sword if the Rest-Talk set is used on Skarm. I am not going to though anymore, so I no longer need the set.

Donphan sucks on stalling teams. You're making your team even more grass weak if you use him. Forretress is much better.

Ok, Forretress then...

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

WHIRLWIND ALWAYS GOES SECOND NO MATTER HOW FAST YOU ARE. The only time it goes first is if the opponent uses Roar or Whirlwind. Ahem.

Actually with sleep talk it will go first if you're faster. for example, if I have a resttalk Articuno with roar going up against snorlax (it's slower than me), and I use sleep talk, roar will actually go first.

EDIT: forry AND skarm = redundancy alert.

[Tortured_Soul]

In the way of Fire Weakness or Spikes use????

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

In the way of Fire Weakness or Spikes use????

~M51

Oh, those too. but it's the fact that they both serve the same purpose in physical walling. Choose one or the other.

[ultranerd57]

In the way of Fire Weakness or Spikes use????

~M51

In the way of both =0.
Try Starmie for less redundancy.

[Tortured_Soul]

Hmmmmm, ok, how about Claydol? (That will remove the Sandstorm Weakness)

~M51

[Anti Pop Culture Warrior]

In the way of both =0.
Try Starmie for less redundancy.

No, it's because they both serve the same purpose. Weaks have little to do with it.

[Syaoran]

Starmie = more grass weak. Maybe be original and try Armaldo. Quite useful in a sandstorm team.