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badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 08:07 AM
I have long believed in god but in recent months have begun doubting. I wonder what your opinions were? I feel like we really are alone and any attempts to create anything other than science are misguided and desperate attempts to cling to the naive notion of eternal life.

Olz.
January 24th, 2008, 08:09 AM
Really should:
Add a Poll

Well, personaly. I don't think god is real. But i don't go around saying "Why do peple beleive in it/him?" I think Jesus was real. But the thing's he did wernt..

Nuke
January 24th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Really should:
Add a Poll

Well, personaly. I don't think god is real. But i don't go around saying "Why do peple beleive in it/him?" I think Jesus was real. But the thing's he did wernt..

I was thinking that earlier in RE that Jesus probably existed but didnt have the godly powers he was supposed to have.

Binary
January 24th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Yup,
I think that God could be real(without him where would we all be?) Well I think Jesus is real, because I believe in the story. And this should also be moved to voting polls

~C3LEBI

Nuke
January 24th, 2008, 08:17 AM
I think that God could be real(without him where would we all be?) ~C3LEBI

Big Bang, Evolution.....

Then again Science cant explain everything since they cant explain how things that made the big bang existed. :D

Jessie
January 24th, 2008, 08:45 AM
I absolutely believe in God. How else could you tell me the earth and everything on it got here. Do not say Big Bang or Evolution. Those are scientific THEORIES with almost no evidence to back them up. If anyone has an in-depth explanation, not a theory or guess, please do speak up. Anyway, that's just my opinion. :)

Nuke
January 24th, 2008, 08:47 AM
I absolutely believe in God. How else could you tell me the earth and everything on it got here. Do not say Big Bang or Evolution. Those are scientific THEORIES with almost no evidence to back them up. If anyone has an in-depth explanation, not a theory or guess, please do speak up. Anyway, that's just my opinion. :)

I'm not siding with the Scientific theories but there isnt much evidence of Jesus and God?

Live in Color
January 24th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Big Bang, Evolution.....

Then again Science cant explain everything since they cant explain how things that made the big bang existed. :D

Dust appears from nowhere.

I lean more towards science. Religion just doesn't make sense to me, and I know a lot about religion, trust me.

Went
January 24th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Do not say Big Bang or Evolution. Those are scientific THEORIES with almost no evidence to back them up.

Sorry, just wanted to clear some things up. "In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena, supported by several proof, otherwise it would be called hypothesis".

So yes, there are a lot of evidences backing them up, other thing is if you believe in science or not :)

Allstories
January 24th, 2008, 09:24 AM
I absolutely believe in God. How else could you tell me the earth and everything on it got here. Do not say Big Bang or Evolution. Those are scientific THEORIES with almost no evidence to back them up. If anyone has an in-depth explanation, not a theory or guess, please do speak up. Anyway, that's just my opinion. :)

Theory does not mean 'guess'. You could just as easily say the theory of plate tectonics or the theory of relativity are just theories. The theory of evolution is one of the most proven scientific facts ever. If you were to actually take a biology class, you would know that biology is BUILT around the notion that evolution is true. You can't just go around saying there's no evidence just because you WANT to believe there isn't any.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 09:37 AM
I side with religion.

As for this theory, the big bang, yada yada, no matter how much proof there is, no one can ever conclusively prove one way or another. The only way we can ever know the truth is if we are there ourselves.

Until then, no matter how much proof they had, no matter how much evidence they have, it can only tell us but so much. When we die, we may go to heaven, or hell, or maybe we will just cease to exist. No one can ever, EVER tell us what really happens, unless they can resurrect the dead.


Funny, I just noticed the advertisement in the green box....all Christ-related...

Jaimes
January 24th, 2008, 09:48 AM
Do not say Big Bang or Evolution. Those are scientific THEORIES with almost no evidence to back them up. If anyone has an in-depth explanation, not a theory or guess, please do speak up. Anyway, that's just my opinion. :)

With 'NO EVIDENCE'? theres massess of evidence, if you don't believe so and would rather ignore all evidence (such as a carbon dating, fossils, recurring features in organisms) for something in a book - which does have no evidence whatsoever to support, then frankly I'd be worried.
Evolution isn't just a theory, it's also factual, not only is there ridiculous amounts to show it happened in the past, it happens today with small organisms such as fruit flys and bacterial strains.

Then again Gravity is also a theory. That must be PURE BLASPHEMY!


No I don't believe in a God - I accept there is a possibility of a higher being, but there is no chance it is one that exists in religions such as Christianity, Hinduism or Islam. Rejecting facts and theories based on empirical evidence, because a 1500 year old book says otherwise (and your parents brainwashed you into it) is silly.

If Yahweh existed, wouldn't he show himself to the skeptics of the modern world? Surely the Old Testament shows him appearing in Genesis and even speaking to nations? Why does he not even give mankind a glimpse of himself?
There is no way humans can prove God, just as there is no way to disprove him. However scripture that support the ideal of God can be easily debunked - scientific impossibilities, lack of historical evidence, contradictions, mythological creatures and so on.

This is a fun thread..although it's likely to get locked soon D:

Devil_Silver
January 24th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Well, if you ask me if I believe in God, I will answer you that I don't.
Which is the truth.
People say: 'You can't prove Jezus didn't do all the stuff he did', but I say that you can't prove he DID it either. I mean, if I tell you there is a flying donkey wearing a red wig, would you believe it, just because you can't prove it doesn't exist?

I do believe there could be a higher being, though, but not in him/her sending some kind of prophet that's supernatural, with godly healing powers and such.
If there is a higher being, he/she is like us, like humans, and humans are normal and get mad or sad sometimes. If you read the bible, you'll never see Jezus getting mad or sad.
The whole Jezus story is just a fairytale. That's what I think about it.

If there was a God like they tell us there is, and if it's a graceful one and helper of humans, then why is their war? Why is their sadness, murder and pain all around?

Live in Color
January 24th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Devil Silver makes a good point. Jesus was supposed to have human qualities and emotions, yet in the bible it says that humans sin, and also in Islamic faith, that the cause of humans sinning is forgetfulness. Yet Jesus didn't sin at all, nor did his mother Mary, because she was born free of sin. I believe in a higher being, but not Jesus. I go to a Catholic school and still, don't believe in Jesus.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 10:06 AM
This thread is soon to go downhill fast. Very fast.

Devil, I'd ask that you respect others beliefs.

God not existing is not the truth. It is what you believe. If their is a flying Donkey, before you speak, get up, & get every scrap of evidence to show me that it doesn't. The bible is just a book. It won't tell of his whole life. Hence why they don't say whether he is sad, mad, OR happy.

And as I said, unless you can go through time & show me what happend, you can NEVER have enough proof to just up & say "Evolution is 100% right!".

I'm not saying I don't believe in evolution. But I have an open mind. I like what the teachings of the bible shows, so I will gladly go along with that. I don't see why people get so upset when they don't believe in evolution. I mean outside the forum. If anyone thinks I'm being silly, then come here & say that.

Warheart
January 24th, 2008, 10:09 AM
I absolutely believe in God. How else could you tell me the earth and everything on it got here. Do not say Big Bang or Evolution. Those are scientific THEORIES with almost no evidence to back them up. If anyone has an in-depth explanation, not a theory or guess, please do speak up. Anyway, that's just my opinion. :)

And Christianinty has what...a book telling you how to live your life? They all must have some evidence behind them, or they wouldn't be a theory.

I'm not really sure what I believe in; There are so many religions out claiming to be the right one that I'm not sure which to believe in, and I'm not about to devout my entire life towards something that..might not even exsist. I'm just gonna be myself, and not worry about what happens after this life until it comes. If there was a God, where the hell is he? So much crap has been happening, so many people dying "in his name," so if he was there, why the hell wouldn't he do anything to stop it?

I'm not sure what I believe in, all I really know is..I don't care ._.

Edit: On a side note..LOLO!!! TYLER GOES TO CATHOLIC SCHOOL!

Jaimes
January 24th, 2008, 10:12 AM
Yet Jesus didn't sin at all, nor did his mother Mary, because she was born free of sin.

But if Jesus was 'free' of sin, why did he need baptizing? Another biblical puzzle for you. :P

It's hard to decide whether Mary sinned, since she is hardly in the NTestament. The concept of her being free from sin, is very much a Roman Catholic idea, and rarely believed in other branches.

Historically, there is a lot of evidence to show that a man named Jesus, existed around 50AD - he is commonly known as Historical Jesus, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus) but reliable evidence to show that he performed miracles and was the son of God? none. Quite surprising, if he performed so many miraclulous feats, he would have been the talk of desert.
It is agreed by historians, the Gospels are not primary sources and are transcriptions of stories passed on by mouth. Hardly reliable information in my opinion.

I like what the teachings of the bible shows, so I will gladly go along with that.
A delicate woman doing evil to her children and eating them - Deut. 28:56-57
A fair woman without discretion resembling a jewel of gold in a swine's snout - Proverbs 11:22
A human body wallowing in blood on the highway - II Sam. 20:12
Abandoning orphans - Psalms 109:7-20
An angel killing 185,000 warriors in one night - II Kings 19:35
Angels consorting with women of earth - Gen. 6:4
Asking your neighbors to help you stone a stubborn son to death - Deut. 21:18-21
And many many more. (http://ffrf.org/timely/abcsbible.php)

Deuteronomy 13:6 is a favourite of mine, since if it told my family I didn't believe in God, they by the Bible have to give me a good stoning. Really makes you rethink calling it 'the good book'

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 10:27 AM
And now I am upset.

So now you are saying that I am wrong for believing in what I believe in? That's going too far. I have no problem with evolution, as it's apparent that everyone must side with that, unless they are stupid. This is the exact reason that many people don't believe in evolution. I, unlike many here, have an open mind. What I learned at church promotes peace, which is why I go. What evolution shows makes sense, which is why I have an open mind.

But apparently, we MUST side with evolution, unless face ridicule. That is absolutely amazing. And that is why I don't go 100% with evolution. The people there feel that they are absolutely right, and you are stupid if you think otherwise.

Jaimes
January 24th, 2008, 10:35 AM
So now you are saying that I am wrong for believing in what I believe in? That's going too far.
Not at all. I am trying to stress that beliefs can be morally wrong as well as right, especially those caused by relgion. It is up to individuals to decide which part they should really accept.

Everyone picks which part of religion to associate with. Using Christianity as an example, people like Glenn Reb, like to choose sections of the Bible to bash atheists and other religions. Oppositely people like the Pope, would rather chose sections that would show religion in a more positive light, which can happily coexist with non believers

Or a more extreme example where actions as a result of belief in religious doctrine which is agreed as being wrong, would be 9/11, suicide bombings, the crusades, spanish inquisition, the 'army of god' and so on...

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 10:40 AM
And now I am upset.

So now you are saying that I am wrong for believing in what I believe in? That's going too far. I have no problem with evolution, as it's apparent that everyone must side with that, unless they are stupid. This is the exact reason that many people don't believe in evolution. I, unlike many here, have an open mind. What I learned at church promotes peace, which is why I go. What evolution shows makes sense, which is why I have an open mind.

But apparently, we MUST side with evolution, unless face ridicule. That is absolutely amazing. And that is why I don't go 100% with evolution. The people there feel that they are absolutely right, and you are stupid if you think otherwise.

You somehow managed to respond with two entire paragraphs that don't manage to do anything in the way of arguing your point or addressing what he said. We all understand it hurts your feelings that other people find your beliefs silly based on well constructed arguments and appeals to common sense forms of reasoning.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 10:42 AM
That put me at ease. Sorry for overreacting, but you should see some people that feel believers are idiots. It just burns me up.

At the same time, I've been through 3 churches before I found the right one, because many christians feel that they are absolutely right. My mother, while a believer, stopped going to church because as a child, she saw her minister turn a homeless man out of church. That's dispicable.

I have no problem with people who believes otherwise. If you're jewish (I never really liked the phrase, "a jew"), fine. If your atheist, cool. If you're a satist, well...depends on the person.

As for the extremist, which is the opposite of my beliefs, are only good because they are ripe for parody. I just love the "72 virgins" jokes. They never get old.

EDIT: Excuse me, badger? This is exactly what I mean by ignorance. Or arrogance. It's clear that you missed my point COMPLETELY. Maybe you should spend more time thinking before you post. This is exactly what I mean by those who think they are always right, & if you don't go by what they say, you are stupid. It's pretty sad.

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Not at all. I am trying to stress that beliefs can be morally wrong as well as right, especially those caused by relgion. It is up to individuals to decide which part they should really accept.

This is genius, very well put. We wouldnt all be bickering if someone said it was wrong to believe that babies deserve to tortured, because it is a wrong belief, it is POSSIBLE for beleifs to be WRONG. I am not saying they are equatable beleifs but it proves the point that beliefs are not ALL RIGHT because HAPPY DAY EVERYONE CAN BELIEF WHAT THEY WANT TEE HEE HAPPY DAY NOTHING IS WRONG MORAL RELATIVISM IS ABSOLUTE IN ITS SCOPE TEE HEE. No, history has shown that organized religion is a disease on this earth, born of a selfish craving to live forever, judge others, and not face death.

Smarties-chan
January 24th, 2008, 10:53 AM
I personally do not believe in any kind of God or higher being, but I do not mind those that do as long as they're reasonable about it and don't shove their beliefs up other people's throats. This is entirely a question of faith - no scientific theory can completely rule out the existence of a higher being, but the chances of one existing is are so ridiculously low I'd rather choose not to believe in a higher being. Besides, even if one would exist, then I highly doubt it'd care about us, who, in comparison to the rest of the universe, are just a little bit of dust floating around in outer space. I'd think a being with the ability to defy the laws of physics has something better to do than tending to greedy, futile beings who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.

I couldn't care less about someone's view on God, to be honest. Everyone has the right to choose what to believe and in my opinion, in matters like this, no one has a right to tell the other he or she is wrong. One of my best friends believes in God and I respect her opinion and she respects mine. Needless to say I have little respect for those who judge others by their religious beliefs as it is impossible to both rule out and to prove the existence of a higher being.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 10:53 AM
You should really spend more time understanding things before you post anything. He also said their are plenty of examples of organized religion is a good thing, thiough you can read that yourself.

This is a prime example of people who thinks that you are absolutely wrong if you side with something other than what they think. A disease on this Earth? There are plenty of positive examples of religion, that you just happen to ignore comepletly. Yes, everyone can beieve whatever they waht. It's called having an open mind. Why that is so wrong to you is beyond me.


Smarties second paragraph is true enough. And that anti-attitude is what annoys me. We have a right to believe whatever we want--and you don't have the right to say that it's wrong, which was why I was mad.

Warheart
January 24th, 2008, 11:14 AM
This is genius, very well put. We wouldnt all be bickering if someone said it was wrong to believe that babies deserve to tortured, because it is a wrong belief, it is POSSIBLE for beleifs to be WRONG. I am not saying they are equatable beleifs but it proves the point that beliefs are not ALL RIGHT because HAPPY DAY EVERYONE CAN BELIEF WHAT THEY WANT TEE HEE HAPPY DAY NOTHING IS WRONG MORAL RELATIVISM IS ABSOLUTE IN ITS SCOPE TEE HEE. No, history has shown that organized religion is a disease on this earth, born of a selfish craving to live forever, judge others, and not face death.

....Understood absolutely nothing in that post just now, up until the last sentance. Anyways, blantatly put..no dude, you're wrong. Horribly.

Again, I'm not some hardcore religious stereotype, and there are extremists out that will advidly try to convert you, but you're making a very general statement about religion: Not everyone is going out and trying to start up wars based on what they believe in. Everyone that respects other people's belief is fine with me, and some use faith as something to fall back on in life. Most religion itself promotes peace, it's the people who can't understand that concept that are the ones going out and starting wars because of it. You know what? Go out and find me one religion that actually promotes "torturing babies" then maybe I'll be able to understand..whatever the hell it is that you just said o_O

What you're doing here is just as bad as those who try to force their religion onto everyone else =/

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 11:20 AM
I HAD made a church worshiping Warheart, but it was disbanded by the military...

As said, badger, you are ONLY focusing on the negatives to make an incomplete generalization of religion. That is what gets me mad. Jaimes said it perfectly in the 19th post.

Persona
January 24th, 2008, 11:21 AM
That's a rather straight-forward question, yet not as simple for me to answer. I was raised in the Catholic Church, so naturally, I’ve had a lot of unanswered questions.

I consider every God that has ever come to been worshiped, exists as any of the others and that this is evidenced by the profound affect they have/had on their followers. I cease to believe that any God has a gender, because God doesn't need to reproduce sexually, so to call a God "Him", "Her", "Father", "Mother" is just something cultures like to do so that the gender they decide on has a dominant feel. While I believe as I first stated that there are many Gods, I think it's a wiser choice to pick the one that people around you are following, unless it's a detriment to them, because obviously it's impractical to follow a God that demands on human sacrifice or sacred prostitution in this day and age. And I don't believe there is any God that is essentially better than any other, and that it's really up to us to choose which one(s) we follow.

Finally, I don't believe in "Heaven". I say that it was a mere thought of corrupt overlords convincing their underlings to waste their lives slaving away on a promise rewarded to them after death. I personally think it's a dangerous belief that promotes people not to make the most of their lives on Earth, however I respect other peoples' rights to have those beliefs, provided they don't use the disparaging "you're going to Hell" nonsense towards me. I find that both are illogical, as observation of Nature shows that it recycles. In my opinion, Reincarnation is much more believable than the thought of an afterlife. I'm not quite sure about intelligent design, but I don't fully trust the Big Bang theory. I think the creation of the Universe and subsequently life was a combination of chance and intelligent nudges followed by evolution.

I find it ridiculous how science and religion always think they have to create conflict, because they both equally have points to the topic at hand.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 12:27 PM
So why don't you explain yourself rather than insulting, or breaking the character limit?

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 12:30 PM
So why don't you explain yourself rather than insulting, or breaking the character limit?

I suppose I could repost it and then you could predictably ignore once again every rule of logic and respond irrationally and over emotionally exposing your insecurity and ironically your reason for needing religion in the first place.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 12:33 PM
You just don't seem to understand. This is just what we mean by people who force their beliefs on others. I said time & time again. I have no problem with people who believes in evolution. It is your intolerance that is so sad.

If I am so wrong, how come you are the only one who must resort to petty insults?

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 01:34 PM
You just don't seem to understand. This is just what we mean by people who force their beliefs on others. I said time & time again. I have no problem with people who believes in evolution. It is your intolerance that is so sad.

If I am so wrong, how come you are the only one who must resort to petty insults?

Once again you make no reference to the actual argument and you fail to point out one single flaw in my statement.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 01:40 PM
There has been numerous post regarding your statement that you just tend to ignore. It's also apparent that you don't know how to respect the views of others on this thread.

Warheart
January 24th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Once again you make no reference to the actual argument and you fail to point out one single flaw in my statement.

..Dude, there is no arguement. There never was until you decided just now to rant to people about how believing in God is wrong.

..Plus it's kinda hard to point out flaws in your statement if no one really..gets what the hell you were saying. We're just trying to understand you, bro, and from what I saw..your entire post just now was a huge flaw in itself o_O

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 01:48 PM
My entire post was a huge flaw?... ok, whatever makes you feel good and think your going to heaven.

..Dude, there is no arguement. There never was until you decided just now to rant to people about how believing in God is wrong.

..Plus it's kinda hard to point out flaws in your statement if no one really..gets what the hell you were saying. We're just trying to understand you, bro, and from what I saw..your entire post just now was a huge flaw in itself o_O

FHJoker
January 24th, 2008, 01:51 PM
I believe but then I have my doubts. They say God created the earth but who created God, I mean he could'nt have just appeared from thin air. Then there is the theory of "evolution" with kind of don't make sense, scientists say that the bird is a relative to the T-Rex with is a bunch of ****. How can you say that a tiny bird with wings and feathers was related to a giant with scaly skin. Oh yeah, don't get me started on who scientists think we are related to COME ON I think that they were on meds or something. I know you are going to say "what about the Dinosaurs?" well God could have made them too but decided to whipe them out and start over and didn't say nothing about it until we found the fossils. I kind of believe because I believe that ghost exist; my house was haunted. I belive in saints but I don't belive in church. Who said to get closer to God you have to be in church Jesus didn't preach in church he preached outside. Think about it.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 01:53 PM
My entire post was a huge flaw?... ok, whatever makes you feel good and think your going to heaven.

He means he literally can't understand what you meant. Rather than needlessly making cheap comments, why not explain yourself better?

Warheart
January 24th, 2008, 01:53 PM
My entire post was a huge flaw?... ok, whatever makes you feel good and think your going to heaven.

...No? Um..go back and read my first post, I'm..not religious. At all. I just think they way you're attempting to like, verbally beat people down for believeing in a higher being is..kinda effed up. Just because you don't agree with someone else's way of thinking doesn't doesn't give you the right to bash on them like that. You don't know if God exsists, and neither do I..or anyone else in this thread, so like, when you decide to die you can come down and tell everyone that religion is all lies but until then, people are entitled to their own opinions.

If you want to keep trying to blame wars on religion you should probably just know that even if religion was wiped from the entire eath, people would just find new crap to fight over =/

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 01:54 PM
I was an atheist until I went to a graveyard and saw a ghost, so now I believe when I die I will turn into a ghost almost completely devoid of personality with one goal and one goal alone: scare people and act creepy, be seen but only in a hard to verify way, stand in peoples peripheal vision then run etc etc

Allstories
January 24th, 2008, 03:12 PM
scientists say that the bird is a relative to the T-Rex with is a bunch of ****. How can you say that a tiny bird with wings and feathers was related to a giant with scaly skin. Oh yeah, don't get me started on who scientists think we are related to COME ON I think that they were on meds or something.

Yes, of course. Never mind the years of schooling and studying that was required of them to get the credentials to make the assertions that evolution happened. They are clearly retarded and are not as smart as a 16-year-old kid who has never taken a biology course in his entire life.

Crazy anti-intellectual nation. http://www.pokeox.com/pokemon/dp/043.gif

badgerskunk
January 24th, 2008, 03:21 PM
When it comes to philosophy, christians work backwards to support a mandatory supposed truth. Scientists work from the ground up based on logic.

Cassino
January 24th, 2008, 03:24 PM
A thread of this subject has survived this long? Amazing... A moderator would do good to read though it, for I see an argument that does nothing but breed hate.

My religion — Shinto — makes me both polytheistic and animistic. However, with the question at hand most probably referring to the Christian God, my answer is no there.

Super Smash Kid
January 24th, 2008, 03:37 PM
Of couarse god is real how do u think water, air, earth is here? Also god is 3 differnt people he is Jesus, the holy spirt and someone else.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 03:41 PM
I said the exxact same thing. I've never heard of that religion before.

Their logic is still incomplete. As I said, their is in no way able to prove 100% that what they say is true.

Dr.Stiles
January 24th, 2008, 03:45 PM
I personnaly belevie in God im Christian and i go to church but im not gonna lie i have my doubts every once and a while like (does heaven exist) and (is the Bible just a book that has brainwashed us all) xD but I just have hope that God is real and so is heaven and im not really a big fan of evolution but im not going to judge someone on what they beleive in.
and if you tell me what i believe is wrong ill probably just ignore you or say what makes you think that what you beleive in is true??

Cassino
January 24th, 2008, 03:46 PM
I said the exxact same thing. I've never heard of that religion before.
Are you referring to my one?

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 03:48 PM
Yeah. I like finding out new things. Well, the thread starter got banned. Is this thread done? A lot of intolerance wen't with him.

Super Smash Kid
January 24th, 2008, 03:49 PM
I'm cathloic, and I learned that God was three differnt people and god. Why? Cuz god can do whatever he/she wants.

Jaimes
January 24th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Of couarse god is real how do u think water, air, earth is here?

How does this proove Yahweh? This could be proof for the existence of Zeus, Thor and so on.
Just because your society drilled a religion into your brain, doesn't make you totally correct. You happened to be brought up in a place where Catholicism was taught, it doesn't make you right. A Muslim or a Hindu would say otherwise because their doctrine tells them so.

Lets not turn this into a 'My God is Right & Your's Isnt' idealogy.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Yahweh is a new word.

Well, you are right to say no one is totally correct. We all believe in what we believe in. We all have that right. Taking it too far & forcing beliefs is unjust. However, they do make some dang good "72 virgins" jokes. I am old enough to make up my own mind, so I will vieww all options, but being a Christian does it good for me.

Dr.Stiles
January 24th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Yahweh is a new word.

Well, you are right to say no one is totally correct. We all believe in what we believe in. We all have that right. Taking it too far & forcing beliefs is unjust. However, they do make some dang good "72 virgins" jokes. I am old enough to make up my own mind, so I will vieww all options, but being a Christian does it good for me.

you took the words right out of my mouth or the typing out of my hands xD
but i totally agree with you

Cassino
January 24th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Yeah. I like finding out new things. Well, the thread starter got banned. Is this thread done? A lot of intolerance wen't with him.
This? Done? I wouldn't say so, there's still people who'd want to post here.

Yahweh is a new word.

Well, you are right to say no one is totally correct. We all believe in what we believe in. We all have that right.
Yahweh is the Jewish name for God, a very old word actually, I think.

Agreed. Also, if everyone stated religious things in the manner of opinion, rather than that of fact, the results of religious discussions would be far less profound... It's the simple-minded arrogance of the few that spark the crusades of the many.
*quotes self's own last sentence* I say some cool/interesting stuff sometimes... xD

Jaimes
January 24th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Yahweh is a new word.


The word 'God' does not apply to the same God for everyone, considering there are other religions represented on this site, it would be fair to be more specific. The term 'God' is generally determined by your society or your upbringing. God in the US being the Judeo-Christian one, whereas God in India; Vishnu, the Middle East; Allah and so forth.

Trace
January 24th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Eh, religious topic. Hurray.

My opinion is, if you believe God is real, he is real.
On my opinion, I believe whatever you believe the afterlife to be, whatever you believe is what comes true.

There is no right or wrong answer in this topic though.

Virtual Chatot
January 24th, 2008, 04:36 PM
I believe in God, but the existence of God cannot be proven with Science, so there really shouldn't even be an argument whether he exists or not. It would end up being a battle between the Atheists and the believers, and those battles get nowhere.

sims796
January 24th, 2008, 04:38 PM
Well, I had no idea what the exact word yahweh meant.

Don't worry, when I use the word "God" I mean it in my sense. I am aware of everyone's upbringings & beliefs.

The Infinite Devil Machine
January 26th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Here's my theory on "God". So, you, rational person that you are, believe in evolution, right? This means everything came from SOMEthing. But, we weren't always here, were we? So, at some point, there was nothing, and then BOOM! an atom of carbon appeared. Nothing, being nothing and therefore doing nothing, didn't create this, so something non-physical must ave created this. Something that's smarter than humanity. I call this something God. Now, I'm going to assume that this something is infinately wise. This means, that it has seen every possible path that humanity could take, and knows how to create new ones. But, because this something knows everything, how long did it take for it to make sure humanity wouldn't screw itself? My answer is...less time that we have a unit for. So, at this point in my reasoning, God no longer exists. More troubling is the fact that, maybe, just maybe, God doesn't know everything after all. You see, because god knows everything, God has never had the concept of not knowing something. So, if God doesn't actually know EVERYthing, but thinks it does, we could be screwed, and with no God to help us.


No it gets tricky. God has never known a question. But, through knowing humanity perfectly, God knows what a question is, but has never felt one. This leaves God with the QUESTION, "what does a question feel like?" So, God now knows what it is to not know something, and therefore is left with the possibility that it doesn't know everything, and can't accurately plan for the future. So, God has to leave something in charge to make sure humanity doesn't kill itself. And, the only thing that God can leave behind, that it can trust completely to react to whatever humanity can throw at it, is God. hence, God exists.

Jaimes
January 27th, 2008, 03:26 AM
[blah blah blah] .... hence, God exists.
Honestly.. that's such a flawed argument...I didn't even want to quote the rest of it >_>

If something smarter than humanity existed, where did that come from? Did another God make that (and so on)? Or did he cleverly make himself from nothing as well.

Rationality is using evidence and reasonable logic to support an idea. There is more that sufficient evidence to show that evolution occurred bringing about the existence of modern life and that microorganisms may have been created by infusing organic materials.
I don't know where such chemicals arose from, however the chances are that eventually science will find out- rather than religion who thinks that they know the answer to everything with the ever so simple 'God did it'.

Your concept of God now being nonexistent is contradictory to his immense power and knowledge that he would have to cause existence of the world. "how long did it take for it to make sure humanity wouldn't screw itself" - why humanity? there are plenty of events that have happened outside your narrow minded view of the 21st centrury which where catastrophic (eg extinction of the dinosaurs which massively affected the progression of evolution). But then again, if you choose to be irrational and reject all the evidence of such events, then this arguments gone to waste.
So did he die before WW2? before the Spanish Inquisition? during the plague? Human history is written in blood, I would like for your reasoning to explain when God died (or how as well).
Your statement simply shows that your struggling to comprehend the aspects of evil in the world with the possibility of the existence of a higher being with the knowledge and power to be able to stop them and not doing so.

Your point just got plain silly after that; "God has never known a question."- I think that needs elaborating. Looking back, your entire idealogy is made up of your assumptions with poor reasoning behind them.

Katalyst
January 27th, 2008, 03:49 AM
I really don't know. I used to believe in God until, say, 2-3 years ago. All those things that exist in the universe must be made by something. Even if the Big Bang really happened, what made that happen? But I don't know how can a God exist with all the war, starving people and other problems that exist in the Earth. This is my opinion.

Weatherman, Kiyoshi
January 27th, 2008, 04:47 AM
Ah.... so nice to see a religious topic again T_T

The fact of the matter is, we can't know, can we?

Science has loads of proof on how our body works, The cell's role in organisms, etc.
Believers Has many reasons on how God gives you opertunites to be (Faster, smarter, kinder, etc.), How God made the earth, etc.

But...
When we die, we rather find out who side is right.
you could be heaven! (Or hell, burning in it for something you did)
or, you could be... in nothingness.

and hey, when you find out after death, people can't just ask you, "Hey, is there a God?" because, guess what? You're DEAD.

Anywho, to get to the point of this post,
Why argue about it when nobody knows for sure if thier is God?

I believe in god, but I don't get in debates whether he's real or not.

So, don't talk to me like "GoD 3XiStS , aNd YoUz KnOwZ iTz!!1" and "Da Th3rOy Of GoD iS a BuNcH oF bUlL!!1"
because I don't want to hear it >:|

Lady Nicole
January 27th, 2008, 08:03 AM
God does not have a cause since he does not have a beginning or an end. God is eternal, so God does not have any need of having been created. Being eternal, that means he can exist in multiple dimensions of time, or in a plane of time; that is, he can exist in an infinite number of events at the same instant. So it is possible for God to be everywhere =P

As it happens, I don’t believe in any religion. But that most certainly doesn’t mean I’m adamant that God does not exist. I accept that even though it’s unlikely, there in fact could be a God. I just don’t get involved with religion. By definition, no theory can ever be known to be 100% correct until you prove that every contradictory theory is wrong. There are logical arguments for both theories and I can think of at least one possible cause of the universe for both; but there is so far no logical argument to entirely prove that one or the other is wrong. Therefore it would be wrong to insist that what you believe is what is correct. We are free to believe what we want to believe and we should accept and respect others’ beliefs.

Xairmo
January 27th, 2008, 11:51 AM
You would think if God did truely exist, He/She wouldn't let us continually have this damn argument for the millionth time. Seriously, this topic has been around for centuries! If God does exist, why not show himsel/herself to end this argument once and for all? I mean people have been killed over this topics, wars have been started over this topic! Is that the purpose of God? You know, Id really like to believe God exists just so I could have some hope in this world, but I have no idea which religion is right! The fact of the matter is, arguing this is pointless. The only things that can be brought up are opinions and theories. Never have I seen any physical evidence of God. But who knows, God could be out there while we await his/her return...but then again God may not even be out there.

The Infinite Devil Machine
January 27th, 2008, 11:52 AM
I AM A VERY ANGRY PERSON

Dude, chill out. xD That's my theory, you don't have to listen to it.

However, I seriously doubt anyone here has an even reasonable grasp on what God is. It's all up to speculation, so don't get so adamant about "disproving" people. It's all in context. >_>

Merzbau
January 27th, 2008, 12:14 PM
It goes two ways with me:

One is less-likely than the other.

1. He does not exist. (Most likely)

The logic points to this. Especially for the Christian god, who is the one I have the most experience dealing with and have been refuting for ages now. There is plenty of evidence for the case of science, and that we didn't need some kind of supernatural man-god and his Daddy and half-brother Holy Spirit thingamajig to make everything.

Or, the other idea...

2. He exists, but he is evil. (Less likely, but if he exists, this would be the case)

Reading the Bible back to front really opens your eyes. Never in history has a book so full of violence, rape, incest, death, plague, discrimination, hatred, and evil, survived to go to the masses without being on a list of banned books, not to mention the fact that people encourage young children to read it.

Those are my two theories. I'd love to debate if people will be mature.

sims796
January 27th, 2008, 12:26 PM
I'm going to ignore the second idea, as I don't feel like disputing that with experience.

But the first, I will.

The "evidence" can only go so far. As I said many times, it is in no way 100%. They are reasonable acceptions at most, while I have an interest, you'll need more than a few bone structures to prove I was a monkey.

My biggest thing is the fact that we cannot ever be exact on what happend back then, as it was millions, or billions, or something like that, years ago. No matter how much evidence we have to support evolution, it must STILL be taken with a grain of salt.

Horizon
January 27th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Well I have to say that I completely sit on fence with this.

Science, for the most part at least, proves that The Bible is a book of lies, the most prominent one that springs to mind is Adam and Eve. If they were the only two human beings, when they had children, their children would have to have children with each other in order for the human race to continue. Thus, we would all have been deformed due to their DNA being too closely matched. On the other hand, some could argue that this is how evolution is explained.

However, I'm sure even those of you who don't believe there is a God have found yourself praying to him in the most difficult times in your life. I know I have. And everybody needs something to believe in, including me.

While I don't go to church, and prayer isn't a daily event for me, I believe that I need to believe that someone is watching over me through the difficult times.

Chibaymega12
January 27th, 2008, 01:54 PM
I indeed think God is real. I think everything after Jesus's birth was true. But the creation of the Universe, i'm not so sure. I think that God created the universe and let science take it's course, then created the animals. I'm not sure about the story of adam and eve, i think in one point in time it happened, but I'm not sure when. I think it doesn't matter how it happened, but that it did.
Also, there is just enough evidence to suggest there is a God, as there is to go against it. BC and AD, the world wide known time span. BC is Before Christ and AD is some greek thing which means "in the year of our lord." Both refer to the existance of God, which was created not long after Jesus lived. There's lots more too.

Jaimes
January 27th, 2008, 03:27 PM
The "evidence" can only go so far. As I said many times, it is in no way 100%. They are reasonable acceptions at most, while I have an interest, you'll need more than a few bone structures to prove I was a monkey.

My biggest thing is the fact that we cannot ever be exact on what happend back then, as it was millions, or billions, or something like that, years ago. No matter how much evidence we have to support evolution, it must STILL be taken with a grain of salt.

Going back to evolution yadadada... theres also fossil evidence, modern mental ability, the presence of common genes & that it would be highly plausable how a monkeys ancestor is the same as our own. As you say we cannot be exact on how it happened, but evolutionary ideas drawn from science and empirical evidence.
If you've never studied biology, I think its fair to be sceptical. But it is a much more reasonable explanation of how life has developed compared to the writings from a 1500year old text.
This isn't directly addressed to you, but I find it somewhat hypocritical how people actively reject all belief over evolution based on it being theoretical and that there are concepts that lack evidence, and instead believe in a story which has no evidence to support it and is illogical.

Consider that the Old Testament was written when mankind had little understanding of science, a higher being was an answer for everything that could not be understood.
In terms of taking things with a grain of salt, frankly there is no reliable evidence to support creationism. If anything the prospect of the universe, being created in 6 days, 6000 years ago with all the animals in a single (now unfindable) garden from nothing seems much more unlikely (along with talking snakes, vegetarian dinosaurs, making women out of ribs etc.) Rather than a grain of salt, believing in religion requires a few bags of it.

If they were the only two human beings, when they had children, their children would have to have children with each other in order for the human race to continue. Thus, we would all have been deformed due to their DNA being too closely matched. On the other hand, some could argue that this is how evolution is explained.
Well.. Genesis 4:17, says 'Cain [Adam & Eves only living child] knew his wife' which is nice...but where did she come from? Eitherway it's accepted that incestuous relationships from 2 adults could not have lead to the variation of the world today in a 6000 year time span- matter of fact it would decrease variation.

Also, there is just enough evidence to suggest there is a God
No.. I can't really think of any... besides religious texts that contradict others...or arguments that can be used for ANY other God.

Why argue about it when nobody knows for sure if thier is God?
I think that this is just a ridiculous statement. Religion affects everyone in society. Religions insult others because they don't believe in what they think, religion has caused wars, religion can prevent scientific discovery, a religion can give someone hope, an evangelist may want to convert one person for an eternity in heaven, a extremist may want to kill others for an eternity in heaven, an atheist may want to show how religion can negatively influence life, a religious charity may want to help the poor .etc.
Religion is brainwashed into millions of people because their peers and society tell them it is true. All individuals should have the right to gain a full understanding about religion and choose it off their own accord- hence arguing over it does have a point.

Ryoutarou
January 27th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Not getting into the debate at hand because those never seem to go well, and I've taken part in way too many in my day, so I'll just hold off on that one.

Anywho, yeah, I believe in God. I was at a time Atheist, and then Agnostic and I can just remember thinking that as an Atheist, there was nothing that anyone could ever say to change my mind, but hey, here I am. Though I don't actually follow any one church because I've found them to be too judgmental and most of them are more about money and not about the wellbeing of people. I do agree that too many people "believe" in God because it's what they're taught and told to do and not because of any sort of personal conviction.

Aegis
January 27th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Also, there is just enough evidence to suggest there is a God, as there is to go against it. BC and AD, the world wide known time span. BC is Before Christ and AD is some greek thing which means "in the year of our lord." Both refer to the existance of God, which was created not long after Jesus lived. There's lots more too.
Actually, the terms BCE and CE are becoming more and more common now, BCE standing for Before Common Era, and CE for Common Era. When I was taking Greek and Roman History a few years ago, we learned it using those terms instead of BC and AD.

Anyway, I do believe in God, but not necessarily the Jewish or Christian god. I'm not 100% sure what I believe, one of my parents is anti-Christianity and all for evolution and the such, but my other is a Christian; so as you can imagine I've grown up being told/taught many different things.

Sushi.
January 27th, 2008, 03:53 PM
I Believe God because every time when I pray, it always come true every time. And I always believe what god wants us to do.

Chikara
January 27th, 2008, 03:56 PM
I honestly don't think it's right for anyone to say that God doesn't or does exist. I don't go to church so I'm just going by all we have to go on. AS FAR AS I KNOW, we have the bible and that's it.

It's a book, holy or not, it's a book. It was written by several people, fine, okay, good. But it's not enough to say that he DOES in FACT 100% exist. (Please don't be offended by that if I'm wrong about something)

And as far as the LOLNO factor, who's to say he didn't? Just as we have no real way to prove that he existed, we really don't have proof that he DIDN'T.

I myself am still torn on the whole thing so I have no opinion about it at all on the matter :<

The Infinite Devil Machine
January 27th, 2008, 04:01 PM
I Believe God because every time when I pray, it always come true every time. And I always believe what god wants us to do.

T_T LOLNO.

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.

Jaimes
January 27th, 2008, 04:08 PM
AS FAR AS I KNOW, we have the bible and that's it.

It's a book, holy or not, it's a book. It was written by several people, fine, okay, good. But it's not enough to say that he DOES in FACT 100% exist. (Please don't be offended by that if I'm wrong about something)

And as far as the LOLNO factor, who's to say he didn't? Just as we have no real way to prove that he existed, we really don't have proof that he DIDN'T.


We also have the Torah, the Koran, the Vedas and so on. Each one says their God is real, others are wrong etc etc
Just because you grow up in a Christian society, doesn't mean that the Christian God is the only possibility of a higher being.
For example, a Christian may find the concept of Vishnu ridiculous and is 100% confident a Hindu has it wrong- and will burn in hell as a result, elsewhere in the world many millions of Hindus are thinking the same about you and your God.

Eitherway all religious texts are mostly made up anyway.

sims796
January 27th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Going back to evolution yadadada... theres also fossil evidence, modern mental ability, the presence of common genes & that it would be highly plausable how a monkeys ancestor is the same as our own. As you say we cannot be exact on how it happened, but evolutionary ideas drawn from science and empirical evidence.
If you've never studied biology, I think its fair to be sceptical. But it is a much more reasonable explanation of how life has developed compared to the writings from a 1500year old text.
This isn't directly addressed to you, but I find it somewhat hypocritical how people actively reject all belief over evolution based on it being theoretical and that there are concepts that lack evidence, and instead believe in a story which has no evidence to support it and is illogical.


Consider that the Old Testament was written when mankind had little understanding of science, a higher being was an answer for everything that could not be understood.
In terms of taking things with a grain of salt, frankly there is no reliable evidence to support creationism. If anything the prospect of the universe, being created in 6 days, 6000 years ago with all the animals in a single (now unfindable) garden from nothing seems much more unlikely (along with talking snakes, vegetarian dinosaurs, making women out of ribs etc.) Rather than a grain of salt, believing in religion requires a few bags of it.
For this, as I said, I couldn't care how "reasonably sound" the information is, no matter how much evidence there is, unless you can prove, with no chances of it being wrong, I will continue to pick religion. You don't entirely understand why an indivisual like me would, but it's hard to explain exactly. In fact, ask a regular churchgoer (not the elderly, or you will get hurt. I've seen it. It's funny), they will say the same thing. Of course, I won't repeat myself the sixth time, I do enjoy studying about evolution, because, yes, it is sound. But, there is a reason I side with religion.

Well.. Genesis 4:17, says 'Cain [Adam & Eves only living child] knew his wife' which is nice...but where did she come from? Eitherway it's accepted that incestuous relationships from 2 adults could not have lead to the variation of the world today in a 6000 year time span- matter of fact it would decrease variation.
Hey, I didn't say I believed everything.

I think that this is just a ridiculous statement. Religion affects everyone in society. Religions insult others because they don't believe in what they think, religion has caused wars, religion can prevent scientific discovery, a religion can give someone hope, an evangelist may want to convert one person for an eternity in heaven, a extremist may want to kill others for an eternity in heaven, an atheist may want to show how religion can negatively influence life, a religious charity may want to help the poor .etc.
Religion is brainwashed into millions of people because their peers and society tell them it is true. All individuals should have the right to gain a full understanding about religion and choose it off their own accord- hence arguing over it does have a point.
This is true, but I disagree with the second paragragh. At least the first sentence of the second paragragh. I certainly don't feel brainwashed. I was never raised in an ongoing church family. But I liked their ideas, so I started to go. I dislike the service, because it is very boring, but I still believe in God, based on my own beliefs.

I gotta learn how to multiquote.

T_T LOLNO.

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.

Of all the hypocritical thing to do. You get mad at Jaimes, for, as you put it, "trying to prove YOUR theory wrong", then you do the same? That is his reason for believing, you have no right to call it wrong. It wasn't an argument, it was a reason for believing.

Chikara
January 27th, 2008, 04:20 PM
We also have the Torah, the Koran, the Vedas and so on. Each one says their God is real, others are wrong etc etc
Just because you grow up in a Christian society, doesn't mean that the Christian God is the only possibility of a higher being.
For example, a Christian may find the concept of Vishnu ridiculous and is 100% confident a Hindu has it wrong- and will burn in hell as a result, elsewhere in the world many millions of Hindus are thinking the same about you and your God.

Eitherway all religious texts are mostly made up anyway.

I didn't say that the bible was the only right one, I said I thought it was the only one. But saying that all Christians think that is horribly stereotypical. As you said, most religious text are made up.

Other religions have different opinions on it, which is understandable, they can believe what they wanna think. I liked Ghandi sorta. Because Ghandi said this:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.I have no idea why I admire him for this, maybe it's because he had the courage to SAY it >>'

Aegis
January 27th, 2008, 04:25 PM
T_T LOLNO.

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.
I gotta learn how to multiquote.



Of all the hypocritical thing to do. You get mad at Jaimes, for, as you put it, "trying to prove YOUR theory wrong", then you do the same? That is his reason for believing, you have no right to call it wrong. It wasn't an argument, it was a reason for believing.


Just a gentle reminder that everybody is entitled to their own opinions; there's no need to get upset or angry.

sims796
January 27th, 2008, 04:45 PM
Sorry, but that was just so rude to get mad at someone being "adamant" at trying to disprove him (with logic), then do the exact same thing he got mad at. If others can't do it, what gives him the right?

Still, this whole "God vs Evolution" doesn't really make all too much sense. Despite being two polar oppisites, I really don't get where Jaimes said "religion prevents scientific exploration". That made little sense to me.

Ullion
January 27th, 2008, 05:29 PM
... Not another one of these threads?

I like how Dark Magician put it in his first post in some past thread that followed the same lines this one. "Some people out there might believe that the universe was created by flying dogs". <-- Now I don't think I remembered it word for word. But the idea there (or at least i think, haha) is that no one here can prove that their belief is the correct one. No religion out there (religion being your system of belief, thus science is a religion) is necessarily wrong, nor right. I personally just avoid God-believing religions (polytheistic and monotheistic) in general. Personally what I believe in is the big bang theory, however someone else mentioned that "Well how did it start then?". Thats where probably both science and some-form of another being come together - the being created the entity of the big bang, and the big bang did the rest, and we are now here. For all we know, the Christian god could be the real one, and has somehow managed to full us.. or something.

I wouldn't mind continuing right now, but I am not 'in' this debate right now. Just not really focused and motivated to continue right now. Plus, I have to study for exams ._.

"Still, this whole "God vs Evolution" doesn't really make all too much sense. Despite being two polar oppisites, I really don't get where Jaimes said "religion prevents scientific exploration". That made little sense to me." - Sims

I didn't read the other posts yet, but from what I just read in that little blurb, he might be poiting to the idea that in the Dark Ages, the ROman Catholic church wouldn't allow anyone or anything speak out against them, thus preventing people from inventing new things or coming up with new ideas or theories, thus preventing the growth of science. For example the idea of the Universe revolving around the Earth had to be accepted by everyone, but someone (before Galileo, i think Koppernicus, or Cornleius? Something like that...) came up with the idea that the Universe does NOT revolve around the earth, but rather the sun. Which is more accurate than the Roman Catholic's beliefs.

I was going somewhere with that last paragraph... but I forget.. so yeah. Have fun with that little bit of crap I had to say. =/

sims796
January 27th, 2008, 05:34 PM
Ah, thank you. I was rolling back & forth, because I literally didn't know what he meant by that.

Ullion
January 27th, 2008, 06:18 PM
No problem, but like I said, I was just guessing at what he tried to say by that.

Zorua
January 27th, 2008, 06:31 PM
See, here's my view on things. God does exist for me, and a lot of things have happened for me to believe that he does exist. However, I'm not going to go in detail because then I'm going to sound influential, and nobody here would like that.

Science can explain a lot of things. But to explain the existence of a higher being...

The Infinite Devil Machine
January 27th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Just a gentle reminder that everybody is entitled to their own opinions; there's no need to get upset or angry. :3

Very true, but there is absolutely no way that praying gives him everything he asks for. Unless he has a direct link to God, which I really doubt, because he'd have something more to do with that gift than share it on a Pokemon Forum. >_>

Sushi.
January 27th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Very true, but there is absolutely no way that praying gives him everything he asks for. Unless he has a direct link to God, which I really doubt, because he'd have something more to do with that gift than share it on a Pokemon Forum. >_>

Man you should really chill out, I believe God and maybe you don't believe in god but I don't really want somehting everytime it's just I let god make the choice for me. And shesh I still like the Pokemon Forum.

The Infinite Devil Machine
January 27th, 2008, 07:28 PM
I Believe God because every time when I pray, it always come true every time. And I always believe what god wants us to do.

Man you should really chill out, I believe God and maybe you don't believe in god but I don't really want somehting everytime it's just I let god make the choice for me. And shesh I still like the Pokemon Forum.

The way you worded it made it seem like every time you prayed for a big Mac, it materialized in front of you. T_T

Melody
January 27th, 2008, 07:30 PM
I belive in god. Plain and simple. I belive that everyone is entitiled to choose what they belive in.
In my experience I find that I have more hope beliving in god than I did while I doubted.
Take that advice as you want.
Either you listen to me or you dont. Either way I'd respect your decision

Sushi.
January 27th, 2008, 07:38 PM
The way you worded it made it seem like every time you prayed for a big Mac, it materialized in front of you. T_T

Ok first I don't like Big Mac T_T And second I just beleive him and thats it, happy now T_T

Chibi-chan
January 27th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Well, I'm sure everyone can see where this conversation's going.
So, to prevent any future outbreaks of sarcastic comments and opinion lashing...

~LOCKED~