Review 4.0 [Archive] - The PokéCommunity Forums

sims796

January 30th, 2008, 11:50 PM

I am in a very bad mood today. I haven't eaten in 2 days, so I am very aggrivated. All I want are competant rates. The first one to annoy me with any sort of random crap, or even post something very irritating, will get burned to the ground. Either rate right, or go away.

Wigglytuff@Leftovers***Cupid
Nature:Calm
Wish
Hyper Voice/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam
Reflect/Light Screen/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam
Reflect/Light Screen/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam
EV:252 HP, 200 SP.DEF, 52 DEF/SP.ATK

I don't give two craps whether or not you like Wigglytuff, she's staying.

With that out of the way, I've always wanted a Wigglytuff (really Jigglypuff), and I think I found a way to use it. With her high, high, very high HP, that kinda offsets her lackluster defenses. At least SP.DEF. I REALLY wanna use Hyper Voice, but If you think a move is better suited...

Rapidash@Life Orb/Shell Bell
Nature:Naive/Jolly
Megahorn
Flare Blitz
Will-o-Wisp
Hypnosis
EV:252 ATK, 252 SPD

Well, I don't like the idea of massive HP loss via Life Blitz. So Shell Bell could work. Being fast enough for a double status is just too amazing.

Vileplume@Black Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF

Of course he's here.

Raichu@Focus Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid/Naive
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast/Focus Punch
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF

I'm not too creative, but I can't think straight. Now, Focus Punch can handle well predicted Blissey switch-ins. Can I still run Focus Punch with Timid? I doubt it, but I am very lazy.

Forretress@Leftovers***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Gyro Ball/Rest
EQ/Rest
Rapid Spin
Spikes/Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF

Well, this isn't a UU tier team. Just pokes I feel like using. As such, Forry is here. He is the best physical wall in my opinion, only because of his resistances & one weakness. I know Skar might be more popular, but I find Forry superior.

The core issue is what I should use, Gyro Ball or EQ. Rest will take a slot, so I must decide which to keep.

Gyro Ball, despite being Steel type, is a great STAB move for him to have. I can even hurt flyers. EQ, however, gives me more priority. It has more PP, which is great for a wall. & I can hurt Vire easily. But Gyro ball can hit things harder, that resist EQ. More specifically, Gengar, with proper playing. Which is best? I'm thinking Gyro, while using Rapid Spin for stalling tactics (40 PP).

Grumpig@Leftovers***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Charge Beam
Magic Coat
Rest
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF

I like a reliable Sp.wall. He has never let me down before. Well, I have trouble with Porygon-Z, but I always do.

Notice that I've only really replaced two pokes. So I got lazy. Sue me. As I said, I am very hungry, and I can't think straight. So I possibly made some very glaring mistakes. Tell me, without sounding like a jackarse. So help me God, if you do sound stupid...

flamehaze94

January 31st, 2008, 02:00 AM

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 02:18 AM

A few things I disagree with, but I forgot all about Toss.

Wait, no I didn't. I can't get it. I wanted too, but I lack the previous game. Lost Emerald.

I don't really like Life Orb for Chu, I had much more sucess with a Nasty Plot Chu with Sash. However, I do like Focus Punch. They almost always switch to Blissey, so that is useful.

I was under the impression that Shell Bell heals more than Lefties, depending on the Attack & the Pokemon using it. I'll use Lefties.

I love Rest with Forry, but this is a different team, I understand. Rest works with that team, but on this one, Reflect might be better.

As For Piggy, I dislike Trick. I prefer it if he was my sp.wall with recovery methods.

The whole reason I use Magic Coat (over the superior T-Wave, or Trick) is because it's just too much fun shutting those Gengars, Milotic, Togekiss, Dusknoir, etc, the hell up. Maybe not as funtional, but damn fun.

And for Plume, thoes EV's works fine. I accidentally gave it defense EV's, which has worked in my favor, stopping Garchomp/Salamence stupid enough to think one DD is enough. THAT'S why they must have Fireblast. or at least Fang. Dumbarses.

Samson

January 31st, 2008, 02:23 AM

replace wigglytuff NOA! snorlax would be much better off here since he really makes a nice spinoff with vileplume. if you're looking for something that can specifically set reflect/light screen... Noctowl!!! you won't have to concern yourself with giving it hypnosis since you have rapidash taking care of that order of business. then there's Clefable who is 100x better than wigglytuff in every way. you could run a CB Stantler set that sets reflect on switch ins... your team really needs another physical hitter. Granbull has to breed for reflect, but IS slightly bulkier and much stronger than stantler. i use a CB Granbull and it's so fun, never disappointing.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 02:42 AM

I feel better now that I have eaten something at last. Baked Chicked with Jumbo shrimp & Rice, with some italian sausages. It's called Chicken Jabeo.

I can also explain my position a bit better. I REALLY wanna try out Wigglytuff. I mean, I will replace her if need be, so I'll put up another poke up. Possibly Clefable.

But as I said, I really wanna try Wigglytuff out. She is one of my favorite pokes. Really, Jigglypuff is. She's just a Prima Dona. I love it.

Eos Aduro

January 31st, 2008, 04:44 AM

Plus shes puffy and squishy and looks like you could use her as a trampoline.

And the Wigglytuff set I would probably go for Wish, Thunder Wave, Hyper Voice, Light Screen.

Samson

January 31st, 2008, 04:47 AM

i've used wigglytuff. it just can't take more than one powered hit. its hp isn't even that great considering its horrible defensive stats. all i do with the wigglytuff i have is a complete wasteful one with grass knot/gravity/sing/twave @ chople berry. it works well with marowak, making levitators vulnerable to EQ, but only for the 3 turns after wigglytuff dies. all it does is lets others set up as it tries to pass wishes to your walls.

gravity is really the only thing wigglytuff has going for it on any team. since you have rapidash inducing sleep and burn, you may want to consider gravity. although, it's not the smartest thing to do as it boosts your opponents accuracy. if they don't know that, however, you have a great advantage XD. it definitely will also help raichu hit more accurately with Focus Blast and vileplume to put things to sleep as well.

i personally prefer bold nature, 140 HP/212 DEF/116 SP DEF/40 SP ATK. fire blast/grass knot/thunderwave/gravity. fire blast can easily be replaced for focus blast. you definitely need something on your team to paralyze heatran and put a dent in it. if you don't see it already, your team really can't handle it at all. grumpig can take fire atks quite well, but earth power/dark pulse will still put serious dents in it, which forces it to rest stall before it ends up destroying the rest of your team.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 04:56 AM

I mean, it's not for keeps, just for kicks.

Tortured_Soul

January 31st, 2008, 10:46 AM

Richard Lynch

January 31st, 2008, 12:21 PM

All I can see is that you have a rather large Scarfchomp Weakness. I'm not sure how much Damage Wigglytuff does with Ice Beam, or rather I'm not sure if it can survive an Outrage etc. either, but the rest falls pretty easily.

Scarfchomp@Choice Scarf
Lonely
224 Spd, 252 Atk, 32 Sp.Def
Sand Veil

Fire Blast
Earthquake
Outrage
Crunch

You should be able to force switches once 1 of your pokemon dies, but if this happens, you will have to conclude that whenever it comes in, 1 of your pokemon goes down, unless you can predict and have it switch in on HP Ice/Ice Beam.

May I suggest a Mix-Ape with Choice Scarf? (Or Speed Boost Yanmega)

That is the only way you can truly counter it, I would personally go with Yanmega, as you do have RS support with Forry, and Scarf'd Ape can be a liability at times.

Yanmega@Focus Sash / Wise Glasses
Modest
252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP/Def/Sp. Def
Speed Boost

Air Slash
Bug Buzz
HP Ice
Protect

There, considering you already have a Sleep Inducer, I would go with Protect, also for the reason it can safely get a speed boost. (This also helps to switch in on a Garchomp Earthquake)

Another option is you could run a Tinted Lens set with Pursuit, and Switch in on an Earthquake. (Or alternatively you could run Pursuit on Speed Boost also)

Hopefully I didn't make you angry. ;)

Regards,

~T_S

Any UU team will have a Garchomp weakness.

But I will agree that you need a Flyer/Levitator on your team, Sims. I feel it's one of the requirements; something that you can switch into the most common Physical attack and take NO damage. I always say, there are two moves that your team has to be able to take with ease: Earthquake and Surf. Vileplume covers Surf, and Forrestress covers Earthquake to some extent, but you still want something that's immune to it.

Tortured Soul, I will always preach about Yanmega, the bane of my existence. In my opinion, he's rarely worth using unless you're looking for a cheap way to annoy. I used to play free-for-all, with no clauses whatsoever. But Yanmega forced me to change that. Because the second he comes in, you know what will happen: someone is gonna get put to sleep. And when it is the ever-rare Special attacking Yanmega, it tends to do mediocre damage to any Steel type.

Either way, since this is a UU team, I'd suggest against putting OUs on it.

Oh, and if you want a decent ScarfChomp counter, Bold/Max Defense Milotic fares pretty well; bulky enough to take less than 50% from an Earthquake (would be different if it were Life Orb Garchomp, I think), and if you're lucky enough to get Marvel Scale activated, she'll become nearly invincible to the Chomper.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 02:17 PM

Forretress is a great switch into Outrage and it will plain own it with Gyro Ball. Otherwise, you're in trouble.

If you really want to use wigglytuff, max both of its defenses since its HP is good. Enough...calm/bold, 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef would probably be best since it takes hits like dugtrio. It's a boring, simple EV spread, but Wiggly needs something to survive on. I'd give it something to beat gengar since it takes its STAB move for 0 damage (not to mention your special wall is weak to shadow ball).

I doubt you have access to it, but Registeel would be cool here (especially on a "just for kicks" scale since Registeel isn't all that good) because it can take on Porygon Z.

I know double-status is fun, but you have vileplume to already inflict sleep and rapidash doesn't fit in. I'd replace that with some help for your walls. I know you used to run a Torterra, that takes EQ like a champ and can help you out.

A quick note T_S, Mixape is useless without nasty plot. Otherwise Infernape is really easily worn down with a bit of predicting, switching, and the fact that it too takes hits like not even dugtrio, probably more like diglett. It doesn't really need any extra speed in all honesty. Nape is much better with a Choice Band.

Also, you might want something that won't die to heracross, especially the banded version. Giving Grumpig or forry reflect would help.

I'd actually go SR on forry since you don't have something to block rapid spin (or waste common spinners for that matter), and 3 layers of spikes would get blown away like tissue paper.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 02:52 PM

I replace two pokemon (Flygon & GYarados) and open myself up to some real weaknesses. I might give Plume Stun Spore instead, as I don't wanna replace Dash.

Heh, Richard is right, this is a UU team.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 03:01 PM

It's not a UU Team with Forretress...but otherwise is I guess.

I don't really see what Rapidash does here. It just kind of sits there...and with sleep clause, it does nothing really (Plume induing sleep...yeah). If you are really adamant on keeping it, at least use a sweeper set of some sort to up its value.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 03:06 PM

Well, being one of the fasters burners, AND sleepers, is pretty damn good. Especially since I can easily give Plume Stun Spore over Sleep Powder. A quick sleep, & burn whoever comes in.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 03:21 PM

But that's just asking Heracross to burn this already Heracross weak team. Even if it puts something to sleep, then what? Rapidash can't hurt much really, and they can probably take a few hits, wake up, and KO.

A lot of pokemon don't really mind status either (natural cure, guts, clerics, resttalkers, status absorbers, yeah...) Using UUs puts you at a disadvantage, which is still very workable. However, using Rapidash, which in all honesty doesn't help this team at all, is only going to worsen the situation.

WoW might help against certain powerhouse sweepers, but rapidash has no business even trying to interfere with those bad boys. If you really want a status inducer (though your team really has other things to attend to where that slot could be better used), use something more study, like a Gallade or even Dusknoir.

I'm not saying rapidash is bad, but it IS bad when you could be making much better use of that slot. You have trouble switching into powerful attackers, I'd try adding some more defense.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 03:36 PM

Hold on. Other than Scarffed variations, Rapidash outspeeds them all. I mean, most. I'm not stupid enough to use WoW on a Heracross. & I bet Hera isn't going to switch directly on a Rapidash anyway. Ask Dark Azelf, when he constantly switches Hera into Plume. I know not to status it, and I know when to predict it comming. Also, don't underestimate how hard Rapidash can hit.

But besides that, I can do much while sleeping. I make great use of that. Unfortunately, three people, as well as 4 out of five dentist, all agree that I have no physical offense outside of Rapidash. The ONLY thing REALLY holding me back is Wigglytuff. I suppose I must try a tad bit harder to make a team that I can use Wigglytuff on, as this isn't really it. She must be replaced for a heavy hitter...

...and unfortunately, I know who it is. Call in Gyarados.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 04:17 PM

Gyarados is a good idea, giving you an EQ resist (watch out for stone edge) and much-needed physical power.

But really, how will you even know if they have a guts abuser? Sure you won't status a Heracross, I'm saying that not knowing it's coming could really toast you. If you know it's there, you can predict it, but otherwise you fall. If you play it safe and just don't status on the first turn, you are leaving yourself at great risk of being decimated by a powerful sweeper switching in.

But regardless of the operation of Rapidash, one cannot deny that it doesn't help with any of your team's problems, except maybe woW (which other pokemon will be much better with, like Noir). Double-Status might seem cool to have, and it is, it isn't necessary and your team needs a way to deal with heavy hitters that are left uncountered (such as Garchomp, physical Infernape, Salamencem etc.) Rapidash doesn't help with that. Now with Gyarados as a physical attacker, I'd really recommend replacing Rapidash with something that can deal with at least some of those threats.

I like the prospects of Dusknoir, as it can inflict status but can actually wall things...though maybe something else since pursuiters give you huge trouble. Maybe add a riock resist, or any TTar or Rhyperior with stone edge will blow through everything, including forretress.
It's a team full of UUs, I don't expect it to counter everything (most all-OU teams can't), but you still need to be able to counter, like, some stuff.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 04:29 PM

It's also about playing skills. Status is actually a large part of my game, and I use it well. If I add Dusknoir, then I'll just have to scrap the ENTIRE TEAM, as it seems I won't be able to use what I want.

Why no Dusknoir? I like Rapidash better. That is reason enough to use it.

I won't fall into the trap of making a team that everyone else has, unless everyone else has pokemon that I like. I know how to play cautiously. If that's the case, why not lose Raichu for a better SP.Sweeper? Why not lose Vileplume for something better? Why not scrap the entire team for something that works better? Even flamehaze, who I was expecting to just say "scrap the team, use this insted", knew that I wanted to use these pokes, which is why he didn't even suggest I lose Wigglytuff.

It's also about knowing how to play right. I know the mechanics of a new match. Not that you are accusing me otherwise, but I'm not stupid. I like Rapidash. I like it alot. I like Arcanine more, but I feel like Rapidash today. I've also mispredicted a couple of times and put a Resttalking Hera to sleep, so I know the risk. I know that not knowing what they have can hurt, but I also know, like any good battler, how to predict when they are comming. I know that Hera is extremely popular, so I must be careful all-round.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 04:47 PM

I'm not saying scrap your entire team :( Most of it fits together really well actually, but Rapidash really doesn't fit...like, at all. I don't mind using UUs, but I can think of several UU pokemon that would help your team more in that slot than Rapidash. Heck, Poliwrath would even be good with its ability to switch into CBtar's STAB attacks and take nothing, considering CBtar totally destroys your entire team.

Lanturn would be great for a bit of walling and can 2HKO Garchomp that want to switch in (or any dragon really) and works great with Gyara thanks to Volt Absorb.

I'm saying there are threats this team gets slaughtered by, and quite a few could be cut down if Rapidash left for something that can take on those threats, regardless of the tier or w/e.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 04:58 PM

And I'm saying that I don't care for Lanturn, and I really don't like Poliwrath. I'm NOT using it because it's UU! I'm using it because it's a personal favorite of mine. That right there is a good reason to use it. If it was OU, it wouldn't matter at all, either.

As for CBTar, I'm REALLY not scared of that, due to it's speed alone. It can get burned, or, with some prediction, Raichu can wipe it out (Abeit losing Focus Sash).

You missed the point of the post above yours. If I do replace Rapidash, I might as well scrap the entire team, since I'm not able to play with my favs. Garchomp doesn't scare me much at all, since it falls with some prediction to Vileplume, Raichu can dance with it (why do people alway stry to phhysically touch it?) & Gyarados can switch in relativly safely. Especially with assistance from Forry.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 05:07 PM

And I'm saying that I don't care for Lanturn, and I really don't like Poliwrath. I'm NOT using it because it's UU! I'm using it because it's a personal favorite of mine. That right there is a good reason to use it. If it was OU, it wouldn't matter at all, either.

Isn't there a favorite of yours that can touch Salamence in some way? Garchomp? Tyranitar?

As for CBTar, I'm REALLY not scared of that, due to it's speed alone. It can get burned, or, with some prediction, Raichu can wipe it out (Abeit losing Focus Sash).

Stone edge will put it at 1 HP and sand stream kills it. Rapidash burning it isn't a good way to try and counter it with clerics out there and the fact that a supereffective stone edge coming from over 400 Atk with a Choice Band...that's going to hurt. A lot. Not to mention WoW misses a lot.

You missed the point of the post above yours. If I do replace Rapidash, I might as well scrap the entire team, since I'm not able to play with my favs. Garchomp doesn't scare me much at all, since it falls with some prediction to Vileplume, Raichu can dance with it (why do people alway stry to phhysically touch it?) & Gyarados can switch in relativly safely. Especially with assistance from Forry.

Don't you have more than 6 favorite pokemon though?

As for Garchomp, it'll SD and OHKO Forry with Fire Fang or Fire Blast. Gyarados won't last very long taking STAB dragon claw, and Vileplume will also die to fire fang after a SD. Grumpig is just obliterated, and Raikchu will have to hope there isn't SR or sand stream to beat it. Rapidash is outsped and dealth with by a single earthquake.

You can deal with other Garchomp forms though, but the SD is kryptonite.

I'm sure there's a favorite of yours that serves this team better. Heck, Noctowl would be cool. I'm all for favprites, but there's gotta be one that can take on Garchomp. Not to mention Tyranitar and the rest of the killer physical attackers of this generation, and Grumpig dies to a few specials.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 05:16 PM

I mean I have much experience with Chomp. When I said Forry, it is very easy to attract a Fire Fang, making it easier for Gya to switch in. I have battled plenty of Chomp, so I won't even go into detail.

You speak as if I have no idea how to use the pokemon I have right. Salamence is very easy to drop, what with Stone Edge. Cept that one that had HP Electric. That was a surprise. T-tar caonnot safely switch into Chu. At all. Unless Focus Blast misses, or Focus Punch doens't work, somehow. Gya makes a great switchin, what with Intimidate. And if I can draw out an EQ, all the better. If Chu gets pu at 1 HP, I STILL ATTACK ON THAT TURN, doing serious damage, before getting KOed by Sand.

I fought them plenty of times, and know how to deal with them with my current pokes. Especially Ttar.

As said, if Dash goes, so does this team, as it is the exact same as my last one. I like Dash, and want to try it.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 06:39 PM

I mean I have much experience with Chomp. When I said Forry, it is very easy to attract a Fire Fang, making it easier for Gya to switch in. I have battled plenty of Chomp, so I won't even go into detail.

And then Garchomp can launch a dragon claw at you.

You speak as if I have no idea how to use the pokemon I have right. Salamence is very easy to drop, what with Stone Edge. Cept that one that had HP Electric. That was a surprise. T-tar caonnot safely switch into Chu. At all. Unless Focus Blast misses, or Focus Punch doens't work, somehow. Gya makes a great switchin, what with Intimidate. And if I can draw out an EQ, all the better. If Chu gets pu at 1 HP, I STILL ATTACK ON THAT TURN, doing serious damage, before getting KOed by Sand.

TTar has 5 other pokemon to switch in on. You can't switch into Salamence, Draco Meteor will OHKO everything except Grumpig, which will be 2HKOed. Forretress dies to flamethrower, as does Vileplume. no matter how you try to defend it, your team gets destroyed by Specsmence.

CBmence does similar damage (I've actually battled you with it). After a few tries absorbing dragon claw with Gyarados, it'll meat Stone Edge. Flamethrower will take care of Forry and Vileplume and Grumpig don't even stand a chance.

Gyarados can't switch into Mence, it can't counter it. No Salamence is going to stay to get wasted by a possible Stone Edge or Ice Fang, they're going to switch, while gyara takes HUGE damage as it switches in, or possibly OHKOed by Draco Meteor.

You don't have a rock resist, you're CBtar weak. Raichu's focus punch won't work after getting hit and Focus blast always misses (not to mention that TTar gets a SDef boost). Also, it can switch out and let sand stream disable focus sash, and then you're really screwed.

Gengar beats up on even Grumpig and is faster than everything else on your team. It can put sashers asleep and kill them in two hits.

Porygon-Z...yeah, Nasty Plot Dark Pulse and the rest is history.

I fought them plenty of times, and know how to deal with them with my current pokes. Especially Ttar.

you might know how to deal with them, but you certainly don't have the personnel to do that. Name one pokemon that can take Stone Edge from Tyranitar and live to tell the tale.

As said, if Dash goes, so does this team, as it is the exact same as my last one. I like Dash, and want to try it.

Then make the team so that it fits Rapidash in, not so that Rapidash doesn't fit.

No matter how much you deny it, this is and always will be weak to everything mentioned above. I'd especially want to emphasize Tyranitar:

TTar...

Raichu: Dies to any attack CBtar throws at it and sand stream.
Vileplume: Good luck with Stone Edge.
Forretress: Stone Edge 2HKOs and Forry can only launch EQ or Gyro Ball back, which won't hurt TTar's 110 base Def all that much.
Grumpig: Crunch and Pursuit.
Gyarados: Stone Edge for the OHKO!
Rapidash: Stone Edge.

^why every team should have a rock resist. You can scare Tar off with Gyarados, but every time it switches in, it's a guarenteed hard hit since nothing can take stone edge. Boah will be equally violant and DDtar...well, that's only for late-game anyways, but that'll cause damage also.

If you want to use Rapidash, make the team around it gel with it better. It just doesn't fit with the supporting cast. Changes either have to be made to the tea around it or Dash itself, otherwise I can't see this competing against any team with any of the threats above in all honesty.

It isn't a bad team, but those weaks really hamper it.

At the very least, take out Gyarados and make Rapidash a full physical sweeper and then bring in something that can take these hits (rock resist would be of importance)...that's my best solution.

The team doesn't need blown up, it just needs a replacement or so to work, you have to be willing to do at least that or this team will fall to the powerhouses of today's metagame.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 07:27 PM

Now I can't really listen. I tried it myself. Draco Meteor is not an OHKO. I have survived many of these Draco Meteors myself to know how to beat em.

I am not denying a damn thing. I know exactly how to deal with each of those threats you have mentioned. Focus Blast RARELY misses for me at all, to even say that is ludicrous. Dragon Claw does little to Bulkydos, especially after Intimidate, including Lefties. I am usually able to launch off two or more DD when a Garchomp tries to continute with Dragon Claw. At least two if it uses Stone Edge. As for Specsmence, I know for a fact that Grumpig can handle that quite easily. If it's not Specs, even easier.

CBMence must switch in order to use Stone Egde, after those Dragon Claws. That is just signing a death note for Gya to charge up even more.

I have dealt with each and every one of these pokemon that you say I can't handle. That is why I can't understand where you are coming from at all. In fact, I really only use 5 of those pokes mentioned, since I didn't have Rapidash (& Flygon wasn't used that much, for some reason).

If you're using a shoddy match as a means to back up your arguement, it will fall on deaf ears. I barely understand how to use that simulator, and too many things happen on there that I just plain don't get. You have never battled me on a real field, so you don't quite understand why I'm not listening to you're claims. Ask Dark Azelf, he uses most of the pokes you have mentioned. Ask Samson, Alakazam, even Iceman, they will tell you I know how to handle those weaks that you have mentioned.

I literally stopped listening when you bought in Gengar. Name knows that I really don't fear that. The only thing it has that annoys me is Hypnosis. Grumpig can handle a Shadow Ball. Which usually relults in an instant switch. Or they are foolish enough to try & break through.

CBTar is MUCH slower than almost all of those pokes you have mentioned. Dash can easily put it to sleep, or even burn it, limiting his power. Raichu's Focus Blast will do grave damage, enough for a team member to jump in for a KO. If he is stuck with EQ, then Gya will have a field day, since he must switch. Even easier since most people will opt to EQ Dash & Chu, to avoid a painful miss. I think I fought against Iceman, who tried to bust Forry with Stone Edge. EQ took it out, but not an OHKO.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

January 31st, 2008, 08:45 PM

Now I can't really listen. I tried it myself. Draco Meteor is not an OHKO. I have survived many of these Draco Meteors myself to know how to beat em.

Somebody was using a timid specsmence :( Even if it doesn't OHKO, please tell me what a Gyarados can do with 3% health.

I am not denying a damn thing. I know exactly how to deal with each of those threats you have mentioned. Focus Blast RARELY misses for me at all, to even say that is ludicrous.

Say that to focus blast missing 4 times in a row.

Dragon Claw does little to Bulkydos, especially after Intimidate, including Lefties.

Not after a SD or two.

I am usually able to launch off two or more DD when a Garchomp tries to continute with Dragon Claw. At least two if it uses Stone Edge.

What the? Stone Edge from a garchomp will take out Gyarados in one hit.

As for Specsmence, I know for a fact that Grumpig can handle that quite easily. If it's not Specs, even easier.

Grumpig takes a lovely 2HKO from Draco Meteor.

CBMence must switch in order to use Stone Egde, after those Dragon Claws. That is just signing a death note for Gya to charge up even more.

No, they'll switch in their Gyarados counter, and when Mence is safe to switch in when another pokemon is on the field, Cbmence will come in and Gyarados is not a safe switch in.

I have dealt with each and every one of these pokemon that you say I can't handle. That is why I can't understand where you are coming from at all. In fact, I really only use 5 of those pokes mentioned, since I didn't have Rapidash (& Flygon wasn't used that much, for some reason).

Just saying you've dealt with them before proves nothing, especially since nothing here can counter anything I mentioned. Please tell me how you have managed to beat a gengar, Porygon-Z, SD Garchomp, or Tyranitar.

If you're using a shoddy match as a means to back up your arguement, it will fall on deaf ears. I barely understand how to use that simulator, and too many things happen on there that I just plain don't get.

Shoddy has plenty of bugs, but it's just as real of a battle as WiFi minus the battle animations.

You have never battled me on a real field,

I have to be honest...I'm REALLY getting sick of people saying Shoddy is just fake battling.

so you don't quite understand why I'm not listening to you're claims. Ask Dark Azelf, he uses most of the pokes you have mentioned. Ask Samson, Alakazam, even Iceman, they will tell you I know how to handle those weaks that you have mentioned.

I'd much rather here it from you...or could somebody please tell me? Because so far you have nothing to back up what you're saying.

I literally stopped listening when you bought in Gengar. Name knows that I really don't fear that. The only thing it has that annoys me is Hypnosis. Grumpig can handle a Shadow Ball. Which usually relults in an instant switch. Or they are foolish enough to try & break through.

Let's see what will beat Grumpig...Choice Specs Sahdow Ball WILL 2HKO Grumpig. Hypnosis can put it to sleep while it suffocates you with shadow ball (not to mention it can lower SDef). You can't counter that.

CBTar is MUCH slower than almost all of those pokes you have mentioned. Dash can easily put it to sleep, or even burn it, limiting his power. Raichu's Focus Blast will do grave damage, enough for a team member to jump in for a KO.

That's just the thing: You can revenge kill Tyranitar-you can revenge kill a lot of the things I'm mentioning-but that's it. they'll just switch out and wait until they can safely switch in again, and then lower the boom.

If he is stuck with EQ, then Gya will have a field day, since he must switch.

No, its counter will just come in while you DD, you'll have to switch, which means that that CBer can come back in and wreck another team member.

Even easier since most people will opt to EQ Dash & Chu, to avoid a painful miss. I think I fought against Iceman, who tried to bust Forry with Stone Edge. EQ took it out, but not an OHKO.

Forretress is 2HKOed by Stone Edge if you try to switch it in though. It'll scare it away if you bring it in after something dies, but when it gets a chance to come in safe on something, ouch.

I have experience using all of those sweepers except for SD Garchomp, and I can tell you that these kinds of teams are the easiest to pick off.

You can hold off CBers like Tyranitar, but repeated abuse will cripple your team enough that it can be late-game swept by something else.

sims796

January 31st, 2008, 09:08 PM

Fine.

First off, yes, Gya can survive--pretty easily--against a Stone Egde from a Chomp. I have seen it myself too many times.

Choice Specs Shadow Ball is all too easy for me to block, especially with Plume. Or I can just easily wipe it out with a quick Psychic. If it IS Specs, there will be no "Hypnosis, then Shadow Ball".

Ttar was easily dispatched by both Raichu & Gya. No casualties. Just because YOU'VE had bad luck with the move, doesn't mean it works like that for everyone. The miss is annoying, but not too painful.

Grumpig eats up Draco, to recover on the spot. No one leaves in Mence after Draco Meteor.

And finally, saying that I have dealt with them actually proves alot. It shows that I do indeed know how they work. Thigs do not work as smoothly on paper as they do in reality. I have picked them off plenty of times in the past. I am NOT some random noob, as that above post just about states. A good player can indeed overcome their weaknesses, which I have done plenty of times in the past. I don't know where you get in your head that you are that much better, but when I say I can handle it, I mean it. I don't shoot my mouth off for nothing. Nor do need to prove to you what I mean. As said, I am not some random noob, needing to prove myself to members on this site. I am a damn good battler, so when I say "those weaks don't worry me much", don't argue. That's what you do on rookie's threads.

As such, as soon as I said "I want to keep Dash", that should have ended this from the start. Everyone else who had helped--even Samson, with Wigglytuff--each respected my decision. flamehaze, who I thought would be stuffy about it, gave me a rate & fix, while saying "this is metagame weak, but hey". That's still respecting my decision. In fact, I give him the upmost respect. He knew that I would know the obvious weaks. But he rated my team with imrovements, rather than saying "get rid of that, it's no good", all while respecting my choices. If I decide to lose with this team, fine. If I say I can handle it, then I mean that as well.

Samson gave me a strong caution on Wigglytuff, but STILL gave me what he saw as a workable set. Even though he thought it was dumb, he respected my decision. He, Richard, & Tortured, each gave me suggestions on ow to fix, without saying "take this out now!" They gave me a poke I should use, but respected my decision otherwise, & trusted that I knew what I was doing., Why the hell do you think I said Wigglytuff, anyway? You don't possibly think I am that dumb. ButI wanted it, so I get it.

And I don't care how sick of it you get, I really don't. I side with Iceman2k on this. Until a bug free simulator comes out, I will not care mmuch for shoddy experience, especially if you never battled wi-fi. If you have, and still choose shoddy, I will still listen to you. But until you raise your own pokemon for wifi, instead of convinently making them all flawless, I won't think much on shoddy experience. Not that I don't respect your words, but you are clearly not respecting mine. As said, I am not a noob, so when I say I can handle it, I can handle it.

EDTI: I forgot to say, I am still redoing the team. I realized that I made no change but swap out Flygon. That was useless. I wanted to make an entirely new team, with some alternative favorites. I'll try something new. I'll use Vileplume, but I'll see if I can use Raichu.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

February 1st, 2008, 12:38 AM

I apologize for not respecting your decision.

Also, since when does me being sick have ANYTHING to do with this? I actually think better on most occasions when I'm sick. i'm not even trying to use that, I'm not really sure why you're bringing that up O_o

I'd just like to correct a few things though before I get on with this...Gyarados can't take a SD boosted Stone Edge to save its life from Garchomp, even with intimidate. People will leave SpecsMence in after Draco Meteor if there's a chance to KO as well. It will have the chance to KO Grumpig, it barely doesn't 2HKO a resttalk Snorlax :0 Choice Specs Shadow Ball will kill Grumpig in two hits, so it doesn't even need to induce sleep. Also, how is TTar disposed of by Gyara when it's OHKOed? O_o

^I can prove everything above with damage calculations and the likes.

I know well you're not a n00b. If you feel I'm treating you like one, my apologies, but I'm just being straight-up honest here. Besides, just because you're a good player doesn't mean you aren't subject to an honest rate, eh? you know what I usually do to these kinds of UU teams (especially those ones Itachi used to post), I blow them up and say "Dugtrio goes here, Blissey goes here." Most of this actually functions pretty well, there's just one missing ingredient.

(Also, you should note I did give advice on Wigglytuff :()

With the current roster you have now, I'd bulk up that Gyarados like no tomorrow and run a resttalk set. You'd have a shot at surviving Tyranitar (I haven't ran clacs so I'm not entirely sure) and you'll have a fair shot against Garchomp as well. Specsmence will still be a pain, but ah well, a lot of teams are weak to him anyways ;)

Yuck, this team really doesn't need double status though. If you're going to use rapidash, at least play to its strong attack. Considering blissey stalls this team out fairly easily, as does Cresselia (only more effectively than the puff ball), I'd run a choice band set that will make Blissey run for its life. Hopefully there's a STAB move that isn't flare blitz, since you'll 2HKO yourself trying to kill it.

As a last resort, I'd also throw explosion over rrest on forretress. If you can bring Forry in on something it resists and you know something is going to come in, BOOM. You can also take out Scarfchomp using outrage very well. Considering Gyarados can be a problem and can break Grumpig, Explosion will help in that department as well.

Life Orb is yuck on Rapidash that has Flare Blitz. That could OHKO Dash with some SR and sandstorm damage :0 I'd really try to avoid flare blitz with any life orb, or even a choice band. That's when wish support usually comes in :0 I don't really know enough about rapidash's movepool to comment further.

That's about the best I can say. If you don't run a REALLY bulky Gyarados, you're pretty much screwed if specsmence, any decent physical threat, or special threat that can break Forry and Grumpig. As in, you REALLY need to run that bulky set or this team will be on death row :(

I must reiterate here...double status Rapidash does NOT help this team. At the very least, run something that will maybe help more than hoping the incoming physical sweeper isn't Machamp. You need a way to beat this stuff.

I'd also consider HP Grass on Rapidash to Surprise Swampert, since it walls you really badly.

EDIT: Netbattle has bugs and people consider that to be a good way to battle O_O Just because we don't have time to raise our pokemon doesn't make Shoddy a bad battling experience, it's the only way for a lot of people.

Also, it's Iceman3k, not Iceman2k O_O

Faceless*

February 1st, 2008, 12:48 AM

Whoa.. quite some argument going on here (can't believe I'm the one to miss it)

Well, the weaknesses Anti has mentioned (CBTar, Dragons at the most) are to be scrapped if sims can take a good prediction in, if you'd like the scenario...

Raichu is out!
Opponents switching into CBTar!
Raichu attempted to use Thunderbolt on enemy Gyarados! (But opponent withdraws)
Does _% Hit damage!
sims withdraws! Gyarados is sent out!
Tyranitar used Earthquake! It doesn't affect Gyarados...
Tyranitar can't use Stone Edge it's locked into Earthquake! NOOOOOO!!

(Gyarados sets up and sweeps)

From what I'm seeing, you do have a bit of a CBTar weakness, and by your favorites, Bronzong(my specially created one) will aid this team in ways unimaginable.

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

February 1st, 2008, 12:53 AM

I agree prediction can help, but only somewhat (which is why I suggest a mega-bulky restralk Gyara). Most people are going to stone edge raichu since it'll still OHKO Raikou (yuck at that base defense :0) and can beat flyers switching in. then again that was only an example lol

As much as it shames me to say, I looked at smogon to help me out on rapidash. It looks useful, as boah (which decimates this team) dies to double kick (which'll break its sub) and quick attack can allow for killing weakened atatckers and endure/salac stuff.

But yuck, they suggested Iron Tail...bad movepool syndrome :( WoW can stay, but I doubt Hypnosis will really help much in all honesty.

Faceless*

February 1st, 2008, 12:55 AM

EDIT: Netbattle has bugs and people consider that to be a good way to battle O_O Just because we don't have time to raise our pokemon doesn't make Shoddy a bad battling experience, it's the only way for a lot of people.

Netbattle was used considering there are no other ways to battle back then other than netbattle itself, but in this case, there IS wi-fi

I could have sworn, in shoddy, my Weavile's Pursuit did NOT do double powered damage on Starmie switching out, thats a bug I will remember (it cost me the battle)

Anti Pop Culture Warrior

February 1st, 2008, 12:58 AM

Netbattle was used considering there are no other ways to battle back then other than netbattle itself, but in this case, there IS wi-fi

I could have sworn, in shoddy, my Weavile's Pursuit did NOT do double powered damage on Starmie switching out, thats a bug I will remember (it cost me the battle)

lol Shoddy made my Raikou do 36% to something with SIX calm minds in lol...Shoddy has bugs, but eh, it's new and they get worked out over time.

But enough with that lol

I'm willing to hear back from sims as to what he's going to change.

sims796

February 1st, 2008, 12:59 AM

Wait, sick? What the hell do you mean?

Oh, I meant when you said sick of shoddy.

The thing is, with those EXACT pokemon, I dealt with those shortcommings. I have prevailed. Against each & every one of those, including Chomp. THAT is why I said I don't care about those weaks. When I say I can handle it, I can handle it. With those 5 Pokemon, I've taken on each & every one of those. I have dealt with Shadow Ball Gengar, so it doesn't bother me. Sometimes, dumb luck. Most times, good playing. Outpredicting my opponent, which is my strong point, (my weak point is overthinking, as I do dumb mistakes) is how I dealt with those issues. I've seen those moves, they are very predictable. It is nothing to think on the spot, making a plan in order to counter my shortcommings. That's why Magic Coat is my favorite move. And that is why I don't really care much for those weaknesses. I know what they can do, so it isn't hard to outpredict.

In all honesty, I can't stand calulations, accurate as they may be. It's very annoying, & this is just me personally. Unfortunatly, I'm reckless, so sitting down thinking things out doesn't suit it for me. Which is one reason I can't play shoddy. I don't like reading too much, at least whiile battling.

Second, Double Status is her strongest point. I'll have to split up her remaining EVs in order to mix-sweep, which I don't really wanna do.

Blissey annoys me, but not too much. gya can handle her, even the ones with Seismec Toss.

Swampert falls, surprisingly, very easily to Raichu. I mean, come on. Why the hell are people so stupid. I mean, if Raichu stays, don't think "Yay, free kill!". Why not think, "Well, he must be plotting something...lemme be smart..." Imbeciles! All of them!

Sorry, I hate Swampert users, almost as much as I hate Black Jelly Beans. And I'm a man who hates black jelly beans. I also hate HP breeding. Never again.