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feltpens
March 26th, 2008, 11:15 PM
I was wondering, just hypothetically, if anyone would be interested in developing or playing a game based around the Pokemon Trading Card Game, in all its glory?

Would you rather play it as a mere online competitive thing against other humans, or against a computer AI with a rudimentary story attached, or both?

My coding knowledge is weak, but I've nevertheless been tossing this idea around in my head for a few weeks now (mostly because I had no internet connection).

There are currently in excess of 4000 cards out there right now, but I think we could trim it down to 2000 (3 versions of each 'mon, with tons of room left over for Trainers, Stadiums, Energy, etc.).

Anyways, let me know what you think, and whether or not you have any ideas or would be interested in such a project.

j.a
March 27th, 2008, 4:13 AM
COOL! i would love to help anyway i can but i cant code AT ALL and the online thing would go great with a storyline for off line mode to(for people like me who arent to good) ALSO why not add custom Pokemon so we have more cards we can add and we only need 1 or 2 vers of each pokemon in my opinion it just saves place and time (and confusion sometimes)

Shadez
March 27th, 2008, 6:15 AM
i like the idea
i actually thought of it before but then with yu-gi-oh i thin XD
but since i can't code either i can't help
but still it's a good idea

j.a
March 29th, 2008, 6:48 AM
maybe you could make some custom cards¿ thats if he replies again...
(i love his avatar...)

feltpens
March 31st, 2008, 9:19 PM
The problem with programming AI is that it's not just based on simple logistics, it's based around algorithms which are extensions of complicated logistics involving player input, resource management, and various playfield-oriented triggers... Long story short, I don't know if I'd ever be able to program AI for a game with as much potential variety as a Pokemon TCG game (Trading Card Game game?).

Anyways, I'll continue thinking about this. Thanks to the two of you who did respond.

Virtual Chatot
April 12th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Theoretically, this could be done in Sphere Game Engine, That way we could include the entire TCG card set.
Of course this would require a mass of resources and someone who could actually write the entire thing smoothly.
Graphics wouldn't be the major problem, it would have to be the scripting.

A project such as this wouldn't have any troubles with a fanbase, since I know there is a large community of TCG Players and Game Makers that would love to support this.

yaoimutt
April 18th, 2008, 2:28 AM
it could also be done in rmxp, and it wouldn't be as hard as what you think (atleast in theary) it would only take a few set "if then" cammans. to make the ai. but you would still have to code everything else...

Glitchfinder
April 18th, 2008, 7:40 AM
it could also be done in rmxp, and it wouldn't be as hard as what you think (atleast in theary) it would only take a few set "if then" cammans. to make the ai. but you would still have to code everything else...

Actually, all that would do is make an extremely predictable and easily beaten AI. That's why it's so hard. Anyway, there is a similar thing for Yu-Gi-Oh!, and it is somewhat interesting in how it's run. Unfortunately, liek every other card game I've seen turned into a digital game, AI is pretty bad, and they sometimes allow NPCs to cheat to give them a fighting chance. For example, I have not yet seen a single Yu-Gi-Oh! AI that understands what effect damage it. I can equip their monsters with a specific card that hurts them when they attack, and they will sontinue attacking until they lose. (I know that Pokemon is a very different game, but I'm just giving an example of how difficult the AI really is to program, and simple oversights that occur)

Wichu
April 18th, 2008, 9:21 AM
I had a similar idea to this for my game, as a minigame/side game. I could probably deal with mechanics, but as has been said, the AI would be a headache. I'll be following this.

spike6958
April 18th, 2008, 1:13 PM
I would be more interested in it been an online batting game rather than a storyline driven card game like the one that Nintendo made for the GBC

feltpens
April 19th, 2008, 1:56 PM
It's sort of a pity, because there's so much potential for adorableness in a story about a kid collecting trading cards to compete for glory against other kids.

Prof. Briar
April 24th, 2008, 10:39 AM
Umm...I think I'll just stick to the licenced Pokemon TCG for GameBoy Color for now. Still, I wish you all the best of luck.

Lady Berlitz
April 24th, 2008, 2:18 PM
This sounds good. I've never heard of this idea before, so this is pretty original.
I would never be able to make a game like this, but I like the idea. I've played Yu-Gi-Oh! Trading Card Games for the GameBoyAdvance, but I'm not sure how a Pokémon game will turn out. Good luck!

skeddles
April 27th, 2008, 9:18 AM
I like the idea, that was fun game. If someone decides to code it, they should probably make a way for people to submit cards, so that one person doesn't have to do all of it. Like an extra program that creates files that the creator can import into the game. Just a though, to make it seem like a much more easy/doable job for the programmer.

Prof. Briar
April 28th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I keep seeing people say this game idea is original, so I just have to ask...

Am I the only person alive who remembers the Pokemon Trading Card Game cartridge for Gameboy Color?!!!?! Am I?!! Seriously, this idea is OLD! Dust old! Also, it sucked. It was playable, fun for its time even, but on the whole it was buggy and sucked...JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TCG THAT GETS TURNED INTO A VIDEOGAME!!! [/rant]

Virtual Chatot
April 28th, 2008, 12:48 PM
I keep seeing people say this game idea is original, so I just have to ask...

Am I the only person alive who remembers the Pokemon Trading Card Game cartridge for Gameboy Color?!!!?! Am I?!! Seriously, this idea is OLD! Dust old! Also, it sucked. It was playable, fun for its time even, but on the whole it was buggy and sucked...JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TCG THAT GETS TURNED INTO A VIDEOGAME!!! [/rant]

That's just what it was, a game for the Gameboy Color! Yes it had its glitches, buy I loved that game, and you obviously can't appreciate the Pokemon TCG for what it is.

Relying on an old saying, if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all -_-

---

Look people, the idea is there and it appears that people have the proper motivation. Sure, the AI will be an ordeal, but other than that, it would be easy to create a TCG fangame.
If a bunch of crappy programmers in a room can create lame Poker games for the GBA, we can obviously create a good Pokemon TCG e-game -_-

Prof. Briar
April 28th, 2008, 1:21 PM
That's just what it was, a game for the Gameboy Color! Yes it had its glitches, buy I loved that game, and you obviously can't appreciate the Pokemon TCG for what it is.

Relying on an old saying, if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all -_-




Sorry. Got a little carried away there. My real point was that people here are talking like this is the first time anyone has ever done the Pokemon TCG as a videogame. Truth told, I used to love the old one, bugs and all. I just want people here to give credit where it's due and recognize the effort of those who went before them.

Virtual Chatot
April 29th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Sorry. Got a little carried away there. My real point was that people here are talking like this is the first time anyone has ever done the Pokemon TCG as a videogame. Truth told, I used to love the old one, bugs and all. I just want people here to give credit where it's due and recognize the effort of those who went before them.

I don't see where anyone was saying anything wrong about the Official Pokemon TCG Game...

Yes its been done before, but I'm saying we could do it better.

If what you're saying is true, that means anyone who has ever made their own Fangame is disrespecting the original games in some way.

Obviously, they are not.

Glitchfinder
April 29th, 2008, 12:59 PM
I don't see where anyone was saying anything wrong about the Official Pokemon TCG Game...

Yes its been done before, but I'm saying we could do it better.

If what you're saying is true, that means anyone who has ever made their own Fangame is disrespecting the original games in some way.

Obviously, they are not.

I'm not sure that's what they meant. From what I gather, the original post was actually intended to point out several posts in this topic that appeared as though the posters thought that this would be the first game of its kind. (For example, a couple posts above his OP, by Esmas) I also think he wanted to point out, as we already have, that it is extremely difficult to make a competent AI for any video game, much less one that's playing a card game. (Many, many more possibilities there!) Remember, the AI in Yu-Gi-Oh! Dark Duel Stories was so bad that they had to let the opponent's break some of the most fundamental rules of the game to give them a chance. (Specifically, they could use three of any card, whereas you were limited in quite a few places...)

Prof. Briar
April 29th, 2008, 4:16 PM
I'm not sure that's what they meant. From what I gather, the original post was actually intended to point out several posts in this topic that appeared as though the posters thought that this would be the first game of its kind. (For example, a couple posts above his OP, by Esmas) I also think he wanted to point out, as we already have, that it is extremely difficult to make a competent AI for any video game, much less one that's playing a card game. (Many, many more possibilities there!) Remember, the AI in Yu-Gi-Oh! Dark Duel Stories was so bad that they had to let the opponent's break some of the most fundamental rules of the game to give them a chance. (Specifically, they could use three of any card, whereas you were limited in quite a few places...)

Yes, thank you. You have caught my meaning exactly.
Really though, I think the flaws in GX Duel Academy were greater infractions though. There were instances of cards doing things that either were not a part of their text, or in some cases having effects that directly contradicted the text of the card.

While it is certainly possible to make an AI that will play realistically, there are some problems in doing so. First, is the detail in coding required. Second, to make good use of an AI that does not cheat, you will actually need several AI, each designed to represent a different play style, or you will have to bloat the one main AI with so many conditional modifiers to its play that you all but guarantee that it will be riddled with glitches. Third, to make the hard opponents progressively harder either requires making "champions" with laughably underpowered decks, sticking the player with ridiculous constraints and disadvantages, overpowering the decks of later players in a way that would never be possible in real life, or allowing the computer to cheat after all.

However, if all of this can be overcome. If the game can possess an Intelligence that is both fair and challenging. If, above all else, you can make the game enjoyable...well, you'll have done something that corporate designers still haven't quite managed. So, good luck.

Virtual Chatot
April 29th, 2008, 4:23 PM
Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, it is just hard to take someone serious when they make bolded text and "!'s"

Prof. Briar
April 29th, 2008, 4:45 PM
Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, it is just hard to take someone serious when they make bolded text and "!'s"

Ahem...Yes well, hence the "[/rant]" psuedotag at the end. I was trying to make it clear that I was only being semi-serious. Still, I'll forgive you if you'll forgive me. Friends?

Glitchfinder
April 30th, 2008, 8:01 AM
Yes, thank you. You have caught my meaning exactly.
Really though, I think the flaws in GX Duel Academy were greater infractions though. There were instances of cards doing things that either were not a part of their text, or in some cases having effects that directly contradicted the text of the card.

While it is certainly possible to make an AI that will play realistically, there are some problems in doing so. First, is the detail in coding required. Second, to make good use of an AI that does not cheat, you will actually need several AI, each designed to represent a different play style, or you will have to bloat the one main AI with so many conditional modifiers to its play that you all but guarantee that it will be riddled with glitches. Third, to make the hard opponents progressively harder either requires making "champions" with laughably underpowered decks, sticking the player with ridiculous constraints and disadvantages, overpowering the decks of later players in a way that would never be possible in real life, or allowing the computer to cheat after all.

However, if all of this can be overcome. If the game can possess an Intelligence that is both fair and challenging. If, above all else, you can make the game enjoyable...well, you'll have done something that corporate designers still haven't quite managed. So, good luck.

Well, I certainly think that this puts things into perspective. Really, it is true that I have never seen a card game that has been translated into a virtual game, and that can still function like a real-world game. On the other hand, there are games of similar subjects that can work. For example, Baten Kaitos has a card-based battle system (although laughably underpowered), as do many other games, some of which are somewhat old. I believe the secret to doing a card-based sytem that works is that the rules can't be nearly as complex as that of Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh!. I think that if there was some way to simplify the card game without removing the heart, that it would make the AI much easier to do. Just a thought.

DarknessMonkey
May 11th, 2008, 5:53 PM
I very much so like this idea. :]
I've been thinking of trying to make a TCG based game for RM2k3 / XP for a very long time and while everything like mapping and importing the cards into the system is relatively simple, the programming of the AI is hard.

I think it can be done and I wish it could be, because I loved the old game for the GBC and I think with an update and fresh look it could really be popular. I would help if I could code and I really wish I could, but you have my support for this. I have ideas, but my skills are far too undeveloped I guess.

I wish you good luck!