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Neti
April 21st, 2008, 07:35 AM
Neti's Mapping Tutorial


Introduction

Some of you might already know me even if im quite new to this community. My Name is Neti, im the Lead Mapper of Rom Reaverz Hacking Team whose Hack "Flame of Rage" just won the HotW.
You might have already seen some screenshots of my maps in the Map-Rating Thread where i often post maps and rate others.
I often see the same mistakes again and again, so i thought: Why not make a tutorial that people can read so everybody avoids this mistakes?
Well it probably wont work out like this (since not everyone will read this and this wont be perfect), but maybe i can help some starting mappers with some good advices.


Table of Contents


Before starting


General Idea
Map Shape


Building Towns

The Difference between Villages and Cities
Placing Houses
Adding Paths
Vegetation


Routes and Special Places


Normal Routes
Sea Routes
Caves
Forests




Before Starting

General Idea

Before you start making a map you should think of what your map will look like or what you want to create. If you create a route you could think about making a mountain or a canyon that has many different levels, a jungle/forest with lots of trees or just a normal grass route.
When you just start right away your maps will end up with an unoriginal idea and every route and town will look nearly like the one before.

Map Shape

This is (like i already mentioned in the introduction) one of the most important parts to make your map interesting, individual and authentic.
And it also seperates FanHacks from the official Gamefreak/Nintendo Games ;)
I will show you what NOT to do now:
http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/1.png

Better start like this:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/2.png

Do you see the difference? Ok i think its not very hard xD
As you can see i placed the trees so that there is no straight line from the exit to the border.
That can be done WRONG too:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/3.png

As you can see, this map is not Square, but it looks strange anyway.


Building Towns

The Difference between Villages and Cities

Well the main difference probably is the size of the town, not necessary the size of the buildings.
I will show you three images now:
This is what i consider a Village:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/4.png

This is a Town for me:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/5.png

And this is a City:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/6.png

Now i will explain you what are the characteristics of the three types:

Village
Villages are small places with not many people living there. They have just sand or grass paths and not many houses. And the few they have are small.

Town
A Town is bigger than a Village, its possible that it is as big as a city. It can even have a real paved path. So what is the difference between a town and a city?
It is mainly the buildings and the way they are placed:
There is space between the buildings and they are not really big ones. You can also seee that the Town was built at a route that is crossing it. you dont have to wind your way through the town, there is a clear straight path through it.

City
Cities are the biggest places for humans to live, there shouldnt be more than 3 or 4 of them in a hack. They contain special buildings like the Arcade, Train Station, Radio Towers etc.
Also they often have special tilesets with bigger buildings.
The path that goes through a city shouldnt go straight through it, the player should have to go around some corners to leave the town.


Placing Houses

Well back to praxis:
How should you place houses in a Town?
Well since we have three types of towns you cant say one thing is right and another one isnt (you can never do so).
But ill show you how to place them in a Village and Town since Cities have them mostly straight and ordered.

The first thing you have to keep in mind is that you shouldnt have an order in the placement of the buildings. Here is a BAD example:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/7.png

Why not place them like this:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/8.png

In that image i already made some other changes:

Variation of Buildings
As you can see no building looks like another one. I made that by using different sizes, Doors and Roofs. Some of the Roof Blocks are selfmade btw...
And remember: Not every house must be enterable...

Recombining Tiles
Why should we use the Gym Roof only for the Gym? Or Oaks roof only for Oaks Lab? You can create new interesting looking images by mixing up tiles.
BUT: Dont overdo it or it will look totally stupid!



Adding Paths

As i already mentioned in the Section "The Difference between a Village and a City" a path is something that you need in order to make a good town.
But it shouldnt be completely useless and change its type and size all the time.
Heres the BAD example again:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/9.png

Better is this:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/10.png



Vegetation

One thing that is really essentail for a good looking town are the plants.
Just place some Trees of different sizes and a few flowers and bushes randomly in a town and see how much prettier it is now!
I think Rocks have the same effect on a town so they should be listed here too.
But there is one big mistake you can do:
You can make your town a forest or a garden full of flowers!
Never Overdo the vegetation in a city! Espacially when it comes to Bushes Flowers and Rocks (which are no vegetation btw^^).
And tall grass in a city is also a totally crappy idea...
Again ill give you a bad and a good example, the BAD one first:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/11.png

And now the good example as a comparison:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/12.png



Routes and Special Places

Normal Routes

We will start with the map we made at the very beginning of the Tutorial where it was about the map shape:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/2.png

Well as you can see its very empty^^
We will start with some elements that give the map a shape.
Im thinking about little mountains, tree groups and ledges.
But there are some rules you hould keep in mind:
1. Mountains are not straight! It is way more work to make them look natural, but straight mountains dont look good!
2. Dont place trees like in a grid! You will see what i mean in the examples.
3. Dont overdo it with ledges (I sometimes have problems with that^^) and keep it logical!
So here is the BAD example again:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/13.png

and this is how it should be done correctly:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/14.png


The next thing were going to add is probably the most important part of a route: tall grass.
But there are some rules for it too:
1. Dont plant the grass squarish
2. leave some free blocks between all those grass tiles
3. Force the player to go through grass
3. dont overdo it, give the player a chance to rest
In this step i will also include the flowers and rocks with the rules from the towns.
here is the BAD example once again:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/15.png

As yyou can see there is way too much grass on the right side, it is squarish and you dont need to go through it to pass the map.
I think i dont have to say anything about the flowers rocks and bushes anymore^^ Its clear that there are too many of them.
So how should it be done Correctly? I think this is a good way of doing it right:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/16.png



Sea Routes

One thing that is really boring at mapping are Sea Routes. You just have to place some Rocks to make a border and then place some rocks and small isles randomly on the route.
I think there is nothing that you could do wrong except for making the border totally straight and the islands squarish...
And thats the reason why i wont post images of this now.


Caves

Caves are not really hard to make:
Think of a good shape and draw the mountain tiles. Add some Rocks and youre done.
Again: Dont make your map squarish.
But thsi time you have to watch out for not underdoing it with rocks instead of overdoing it!
Sure you can overdo it but thats kinda hard in a cave.
One thing that probably noone would do wrong (Nintendo did it wrong) is that the Mountains in a cave are not really mountains, they are walls. That means they should be connected to each other and be seperated with no space between them.
Here is the BAD example:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/17.png

As a comparison a good cave now:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/tutorial/18.png

As you can see i have added few details like thee water coming out of the rock and the craters. The are always a nice addition to a cave.


Forests

One thing i like about forest is that there is a lot of vegetation in them.
To make a forest look authentic you should mix up all the 3 types of trees (if you took the forest tileset, which i recommend for making forest xD).
You should make the general shape with the big trees, then add some normal route trees and use the small ones to make everything have a good overall shape.
In a Forest theres another special thing in my opinion: There is nearly no place you can walk without tall grass.
Cause im kinda lazy i will give you only the good example this time, it is the Bloomingwoods from Flame of Rage:

http://nareas.na.ohost.de/lof/1.0.png

In this Forest there is a huge Sea that dominates the map, but a Sea is not necessary in a Forest.


The End

I hope this tutorial will help beginning Mappers to make good maps!

PokeBud
April 22nd, 2008, 08:15 AM
Wow really good thanks i'm not good in mapping but maybe now :P

Epsilon
April 22nd, 2008, 08:35 AM
Nice carefully written tutorial!

I especially like the difference between towns, villages and cities,
so that was really helpfull to me!

But isn't a sea a little bit strange in a forest? (bloomingwoods)
It should be a lake, with unanimated water, unless you have a waterfall,
the water can't really be moving.....

This was really helpfull,
thanks!

Neti
April 22nd, 2008, 09:09 AM
Nice carefully written tutorial!

I especially like the difference between towns, villages and cities,
so that was really helpfull to me!

But isn't a sea a little bit strange in a forest? (bloomingwoods)
It should be a lake, with unanimated water, unless you have a waterfall,
the water can't really be moving.....

This was really helpfull,
thanks!

i already thought about the thing with the lake too, i will ask my teammates what they think about it

edit: is it only me or is it impossible to open the spoiler with firefox?

Master_Track
April 22nd, 2008, 09:48 AM
I had to reload the page, but afterwards it worked!
so it wasn't able to load the pictureas the first time.

btw nice tut neti xD

But I don't think I will use it at the moment (since you are our mapper xD)

Tropical Sunlight
April 22nd, 2008, 09:58 AM
Nice tutorial! Now I know what square is (I doesn't speaks English)

X-Buster
April 22nd, 2008, 02:30 PM
using your maps from Flame of Rage? Nice..!^^ Keep it up, I Hope I WILL learn a Lot from this Tut..!^^

One Winged Angel
April 22nd, 2008, 03:12 PM
Hey, this is good for noobs like me. Thanks xD

Yoshimi
April 22nd, 2008, 04:26 PM
Finally a great mapper!
I don't really need this because most people say i have good maps (i don't believe them) but this will help a lot of starter hackers.
some people here are blind at map making.
and maybe you should put in two more parts in the mapping tutorial.
check for errors and make sure buildings aren't too flat.
No offense but those buildings in the city map seem too flat to me.
and if you want, i can tell you a couple of other stuff you seemed to miss.
Oh and about the floating bridge tileset...what do you mean by that?
I just changed the background on the bridge.

Neti
April 22nd, 2008, 09:43 PM
Finally a great mapper!
I don't really need this because most people say i have good maps (i don't believe them) but this will help a lot of starter hackers.
some people here are blind at map making.
and maybe you should put in two more parts in the mapping tutorial.
check for errors and make sure buildings aren't too flat.
No offense but those buildings in the city map seem too flat to me.
and if you want, i can tell you a couple of other stuff you seemed to miss.
Oh and about the floating bridge tileset...what do you mean by that?
I just changed the background on the bridge.

yeah please send me a pm with the information i missed so i can expand the tutorial

but what do YOU mean with the floating bridge tileset?^^
i dont really get it

oh and if spoilers dont work use another browser, i dont know whyy but pokecommunity kinda messed them up for firefox

X-Buster
April 22nd, 2008, 09:55 PM
Neti, Maybe you should remove your signature in the tutorial..!^^

D-Trogh
April 23rd, 2008, 03:23 AM
Hmm.. You're making a mapping turorial, and I can see tile errors in your maps.. Weird XD
*Looks at tree shadows..*

Neti
April 23rd, 2008, 03:44 AM
Hmm.. You're making a mapping turorial, and I can see tile errors in your maps.. Weird XD
*Looks at tree shadows..*

hmm i dont know which you mean, maybe the ones in the forest, theyre already fixed

and i didnt say my maps are perfect^^

Aquila
April 23rd, 2008, 05:40 AM
It's a nice tutorial.
Although, I'm not a fan of Gymroof at different buildings than the Gym itself.
But since this is a mapping tutorial for beginners I guess that doesn't matter too much.

Binary
April 23rd, 2008, 08:07 AM
Very nice tutorial, it's very good and has good explanations. You could've added more stuff about the advanced use of tiles, and some block editor stuff you could've covered. Anyways, you've covered pretty much of all the basics of map-making and maybe "some" people who are bad at mapping, can now get a head start with this tutorial. Cheers!

Neti
April 23rd, 2008, 08:46 AM
Very nice tutorial, it's very good and has good explanations. You could've added more stuff about the advanced use of tiles, and some block editor stuff you could've covered. Anyways, you've covered pretty much of all the basics of map-making and maybe "some" people who are bad at mapping, can now get a head start with this tutorial. Cheers!

i was thinking about adding some things to htis tutorial, like Advance Map Fucntions and a Region Map Tutorial. But ill do that another time

dragonarche
April 24th, 2008, 12:35 AM
i need help with cyclone
each time i try to run the program this comes up
Component FM20.DLL or one of its dependencies nou correctly registerd: a file is missing or invaild
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
PLZ HELP ME

Neti
April 24th, 2008, 03:43 AM
i need help with cyclone
each time i try to run the program this comes up
Component FM20.DLL or one of its dependencies nou correctly registerd: a file is missing or invaild
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
PLZ HELP ME

cant help you with that i have no idea how cyclone works... i tried working with it once and didnt succeed xD
but that isnt the right thread for such questions anyway, search for a cyclone tutorial

Lady Berlitz
April 24th, 2008, 02:57 PM
This tutorial is perfect! I can see that you have skilled for a very long time, and get the idea of how it works. I guess I can say that you are the best mapper I have ever seen, besides Nintendo's workers, of course... Well, glad to see a mapping tutorial, keep up the good mapping? :P

X-Buster
April 24th, 2008, 03:07 PM
besides Nintendo's workers, of course

what..? you think Nintendo make great maps..? no offend but I hate there maps, Neti maps are 18 miles way better than Nintendo's..!^^

/Circa
April 24th, 2008, 03:15 PM
Umm, the way you used the trees in 'the differences betweens villages and cities will completely stuff the map up, im talking about the connections. I also noticed you used the tree shading wrong, it is only used when a certain tree is covered by another, the ends of the sides and top where there are no trees should have no shadows. If you understand what im talking about. And also, mixing up the tiles will only look good sometimes, most of the time it will be a failure. Changing the palettes would probably be the best idea when changing the idea of the buildings. Like the houses in pallet town, you could make them green perhaps?

I think your tutorial needs some serious revision.

Neti
April 24th, 2008, 10:22 PM
Umm, the way you used the trees in 'the differences betweens villages and cities will completely stuff the map up, im talking about the connections. I also noticed you used the tree shading wrong, it is only used when a certain tree is covered by another, the ends of the sides and top where there are no trees should have no shadows. If you understand what im talking about. And also, mixing up the tiles will only look good sometimes, most of the time it will be a failure. Changing the palettes would probably be the best idea when changing the idea of the buildings. Like the houses in pallet town, you could make them green perhaps?

I think your tutorial needs some serious revision.

you can just make the border 4x2, it works in Adance Map's Professional Header. Then the border wont be stuffed up.
Te shading.. hmm never thought about that ill check it out, but i know what you mean.
And i agree with you that mixing up tiles often ends up in total crap, but i noted that you houldnt overdo it.
As you can see i created new roofs by changing the palette...

BassMan5t9
June 20th, 2008, 08:23 AM
i can't see your pictures, neti

Master_Track
June 20th, 2008, 08:26 AM
that's not because the pictures aren't there, I can see them.
So it has to be your browser.

Neti
June 20th, 2008, 08:28 AM
that is correct i can see them too, using Mozilla Firefox 3.0 Beta RC 2

Cammy25
June 21st, 2008, 12:18 AM
Can I just ask a few questions regarding the Vilages, Towns and Cities?

Well I wanna make a hack and I want to map it and make them look good the problem is:

I dunno what size to make them i.e a town: what size should I make the map?

Neti
June 21st, 2008, 01:50 AM
i think that question is absolutely *sorry* dumb
it dpends on the size you want the town to have...
you can make large cities or small villages

cubone_master
June 21st, 2008, 07:19 AM
very good tutorial
i will use it for making
a city
XD

jakerman999
July 10th, 2008, 02:22 PM
one more thing you should mention, don't put people(or items) on top of roof's.
check the green roof on the village map to see what I mean.

also, using firefox and can see the images clearly. try waiting for the page to load fully, and if that doesn't work, press f5.

only other thing that might work is holding the alt. key and pressing f4, but only if it's an I.D.ten T. error.

ckk
July 10th, 2008, 04:34 PM
This tutorial is great!
I love how u had a comparison between a bad and good map

Salat
July 20th, 2008, 06:03 AM
cool thx is this a advance map??

Neti
July 26th, 2008, 10:24 AM
yes, of course, its the best
but it applies to any other mapping program of course cause it doesnt have anything to do with the program

X-aveon
August 4th, 2008, 12:17 PM
wow, this really helps me a lot. now i can map wayyy better!

Mr.Fury
August 15th, 2008, 12:30 PM
perhaps you should add the tilesets for each thing.
like for a city tile set ? and ?.

you understand what i am asking?

Neti
August 16th, 2008, 12:51 AM
yeah i understand, but that makes no sense
there are several tilesets for towns and several tilesets for caves
just look a the FR/LG Tileset List in the Tutorials Section
you can find it when searching for "FR Tilesets"
All Tilesets are listed there

V.L.
August 16th, 2008, 10:38 AM
This is a great tutorial, the most helpful I've seen. I'm actually making decent maps now. :)

But, (and I don't know if you will answer this since it wasn't covered in the tutorial) why is it that some of my warps work and some just lead to darkness and freeze the game? I know you didn't cover events, but this is a problem I've been having.

Neti
August 16th, 2008, 12:35 PM
i did cover events in my advance map tutorial
you should check it out, the link is in my signature

V.L.
August 16th, 2008, 12:39 PM
*facepalm*

Sorry, I'm new to this common sense thing. Thanks.

ckk
August 21st, 2008, 12:09 PM
is it just me or did all the images in the spoiler just vanished?

*Poliwag*
August 22nd, 2008, 08:59 AM
Yeah, I can't see the images anymore either, has anyone else got this? Could re-upload them please Neti?

Thanks

Neti
August 23rd, 2008, 01:25 AM
the hosting service is a bit dumb... il lreupload everything in a few minutes

edit: when inserting a new hard drive in my pc i forgot to copy the images of this tut... so i will have to reinsert the old hdd and copy the images, that will take a while

The Original Darkwiz787
August 27th, 2008, 05:12 PM
I can't see them either!!!!! Please re upload them

Neti
August 28th, 2008, 07:21 AM
noone can see them cause theyre only on my old hdd...
i would have to reinsert it into my pc and reuplaod them
but i have no time at all to do something like that (even though it would take me like 30 mins to insert and remove it)
i think it would even be faster to remake the images...
but i cant do that now, sry
ill put it on my todo list

Chimchar 9
September 10th, 2008, 02:03 PM
i cant wait for the new maps to be made
anyway you should really do it now because some people really need help in mapping if you see some of the hacks around here

Bishoujo
September 21st, 2008, 04:57 PM
NOT???
Picture Links were die
...

Racer
September 22nd, 2008, 01:06 AM
well i read the whole thing i must say very good tutorial, just one little...well Big Problem the pictures wont show for some reason. is there anyway you are able send me a copy with the pictures unhidden...

The Abyss
September 22nd, 2008, 01:10 AM
He said the host deleted the pictures and now he has to remake them...Just deal with it.

Neti
September 22nd, 2008, 05:35 AM
i have good news for yyou: Lucario 9 and a friend of him (i think Disturbed) are going to remake the pictures cause i have no time to do that
so in a few days the pictures will be there again

Racer
September 22nd, 2008, 06:20 AM
i have good news for yyou: Lucario 9 and a friend of him (i think Disturbed) are going to remake the pictures cause i have no time to do that
so in a few days the pictures will be there again

Thank You Lucario 9, for remaking the pictures and Thanks to neti for the actual Tutorial

Chimchar 9
September 22nd, 2008, 07:45 AM
no problem i hope the maps will be good for you!

@neti- yes it is disturbed who will be helping me and if you dont like any of the maps just tell me and ill remake them.

other news-

disturbed will be making the poor maps and ill be making the great maps (they might be good)

ShinyMew34
October 5th, 2008, 09:15 AM
I can't se the pictures!o.o

cooley
October 7th, 2008, 02:31 PM
I can't open the spoilers..Are the images hosted correctly?
I mean, are they still hosted on the site?

Satoshi Sugimori
October 7th, 2008, 05:06 PM
No the pictures have to be uploaded again and placed in the 1st post...

@ Neti you should re upload the pictures cuz I really wanted to take a look at your tut :P

iBlade
October 10th, 2008, 12:07 AM
Yay I think so ..^^

I saw this tutorial somewhere but ling time ago and it helped me a lot .. but now the pictures aren't there .. :( please reup them ..

Chimchar 9
October 10th, 2008, 06:03 AM
well if you look through the posts it says me and disturbed are making the maps.
we will try to make the awsome !

duturnocheese
October 13th, 2008, 02:31 AM
This isn't a problem, but when do you think you will have the new maps done by? I know it takes time, and I definaetly don't mind.

Hope your new maps do well!

I also have a problem... My picture isn't loading and my hourly prize image isn't being animated!

torferno lvl-X
October 18th, 2008, 10:21 AM
Yeah please re-upload the pics. 'cause i have seen many people rercommend this tutorial.

Neti
October 19th, 2008, 05:18 AM
i think i have to give Lucario9 and Disturbed a lil kick^^

Satoshi Sugimori
October 19th, 2008, 06:15 AM
You shouldn't kick them:P just hang a cookie on a wire and lower it as futher they're finished XD loolz

duturnocheese
October 19th, 2008, 04:13 PM
You shouldn't kick them:P just hang a cookie on a wire and lower it as futher they're finished XD loolz

Actually it still isn't there yet. It still comes up with nothing.

Neti
October 19th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Actually it still isn't there yet. It still comes up with nothing.
ive asked Lucario9 why it takes so long and he said hes waiting for Disturbed to finish some maps

torferno lvl-X
October 26th, 2008, 12:56 PM
How are the maps going? Can't wait for the pictures.

iBlade
November 2nd, 2008, 11:40 AM
maaan pls reup the maps neti ..

Neti
November 2nd, 2008, 11:42 AM
im waiting for them too^^
Lucario9 and DIsturbed said theyre going to make them

Disturbed
November 2nd, 2008, 05:38 PM
Actually, I was forced into it -_- and I resigned... Remember Neti? I've been to busy to make crap maps... I can't even make crap maps >.< they always turn out good. Soo, as again, I'd rather resign then make the maps since I've been hella busy lately. And I told you that a few weeks ago Neti. So PLEASE don't blame me!

Likewise
November 2nd, 2008, 05:42 PM
OOH!
i can make crap maps easily it's like a reflex xD

Lol seriously i'm guessing this was a great tutorial, now to wait for the screens!

Neti
November 2nd, 2008, 09:27 PM
Actually, I was forced into it -_- and I resigned... Remember Neti? I've been to busy to make crap maps... I can't even make crap maps >.< they always turn out good. Soo, as again, I'd rather resign then make the maps since I've been hella busy lately. And I told you that a few weeks ago Neti. So PLEASE don't blame me!
kk so i need to know if lucario9 is still working on them... if not ill have to make them on my own or find somebody else

Tropical Sunlight
November 3rd, 2008, 04:00 AM
Me like make bad maps.

Can Neti me? lol

Satoshi Sugimori
November 3rd, 2008, 06:12 AM
If you want I can help with making the maps ;)

Erwing
November 3rd, 2008, 07:18 PM
It's supposed that I had the latest version of Mozilla FireFox but still doesn't show the graphics, Why? Can you send me the tutorial?

Surf
November 3rd, 2008, 07:32 PM
They're making new maps the old ones got deleted

torferno lvl-X
November 15th, 2008, 08:17 AM
Are thye maps still being made? 'Cause I really want to read this tutorial.

iBlade
November 26th, 2008, 08:04 AM
Wha about now ? .. do anyone know when it will be finished .. or if the pics were reupped or made new ..

Tyrantrum
November 26th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Oh my god... -.-

C'mon guys, don't keep
asking if Neti is done with
the screen shots. He is
probably busy at the moment.
Don't forget that he has a hack

When the maps are done, he will
let us know, okay? No stop spamming
the thread with the same question.

Neti
November 26th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Oh my god... -.-

C'mon guys, don't keep
asking if Neti is done with
the screen shots. He is
probably busy at the moment.
Don't forget that he has a hack

When the maps are done, he will
let us know, okay? No stop spamming
the thread with the same question.
yup hes right, i wont finish them faster if many people ask me
im too busy to even work on my hack a decent amount of time
school and another project thats not related to hacking takes nearly all my time

Thrace
November 26th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Might as well close it until Neti can get those images back up. Just PM one of the mods when you want this reopened Neti.

Closed