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Matt11
June 21st, 2008, 12:45 PM
Ive read that many ppl do them and that they are mostly boring.
But is it OT = No one reads?

Do u not even give them a chance as soon as you see it's an OT story or do you actually read it as you would any?

Basically do ppl think that no one should write OT stories ever?

Gummy
June 21st, 2008, 12:58 PM
It's not the OT fic that people dread, it's the immense amount of cliches that come with it. Check out Thesis' thread on cliches (which is in this section), and pretty much all of those appear in OTs written by beginners.

Alter Ego
June 21st, 2008, 01:03 PM
Erm...yeah, like Gummy said it's not the genre that's in disfavor; just the countless poorly written and equally poorly planned, cookie-cutter fics that clutter it. A well-written OT will be accepted just as happily as a well-written fic of any other genre, and I for one actually have a fondness for OTs, so no; not everyone hates OT fics at all. xD

Matt11
June 21st, 2008, 01:20 PM
Thats good, and I have read the thesis thread on cliches.
Anyway I really wanted to write an OT but when I saw that everyone seemed to hate them it really put me off, but now that I see that you just have to work on them Im gonna try my best ;)

under_score
June 21st, 2008, 11:49 PM
Well, I tend to look at the words on that pop-up window which appear when you hover your mouse over the thread. That, and the title.

If the title says "(Character's name here)'s Pokemon/Region Adventure", then that line puts me off. It reeks of, well, not very good OT fics.

If the first sentences of the fic are "(Character's name here) opened his/her eyes to a bright, beautiful morning/(CNH) woke up, looked at the clock and yelled 'I'm LATE!'" Or one of those old, overused beginnings... I just stay away from the story like a plague.

Ninja Caterpie
June 21st, 2008, 11:53 PM
Damn...is THAT why everyone stays away from my FC?
I've only gotten 4 people to reply on my thread. One's a friend, the other I PMed...
Seriously, just because people's minds are too small to think of a better name doesn't mean their fic sux... X_X

Elite Overlord LeSabre™
June 22nd, 2008, 12:10 AM
OT fics I don't mind at all. I fact, I enjoy reading them.

Poorly written OT fics, however, are a whole other matter. And sadly, the latter is more prevalent:/

Astinus
June 22nd, 2008, 12:18 AM
It's just that for those who have been in the fandom for far too long to keep a hold of their sanity (that would be me), the fics that are titled "CNH's Adventure/Journey/Quest/Mystic Adventure to find all the Clow Cards Pokémon" tend to not be well-done. There are some instances where this isn't true, but the majority tends to write the stereotype more than the minority break the mold. (I need sleep.)

(Of course, dark lakitu, I had no idea you had a fic. x.x I'm so behind on reviewing.)

OT fics are genuinely what starting Pokémon fanfic writers go for. It's the same in a lot of other fandoms that I can name off the top of my head: LOTR, Digimon, OSC (;_____; Why must there be fanbrats there?), Kingdom Hearts, DragonLance, and so on. The young fans of the series want to do nothing more but be a part of the actual canon, so they create a version of themselves to insert into the world. (Usually to fall in love with a character, which gets creepy when the canon character is six, and that story made me want to die, and... *hugs the boy*) And the fanauthor really doesn't care about the mechanics of the fic, and they title it the first thing that comes to mind, and they post it. And their little friends run by and write "zomg! u rite gud! moar pease!"

But it's just that OT fics are a dime-a-dozen, or at least about as common as Rattata. You can't wade through a fanfiction section on a Pokemon board without running into at least five on the first page alone. It's just that it takes a little scrounging to find a good OT fic, like finding a good IV-carrying Rattata. They're out there. It just takes a little work to find one.

Unless you have someone to rec you some.

As for myself, I don't mind OT fics. I'm writing one myself. (I like to selfishly think that it's good.) I just want to read fics that are actually readable. And that aren't just fics where the person was writing down what was happening in the game as they were playing, with less description and more grammar errors.

Matt11
June 22nd, 2008, 04:37 AM
So what is there besides OT?

BREAKINGBEN
June 22nd, 2008, 04:48 AM
So what is there besides OT?

Anything, really. Action, adventure, drama etc. Any Genre you can think of can be translated into a (good) fan fic. Like I just started writing about a secret agent in the Pokemon world. I find it interesting to write (and think) about, plus it gives me a whole bunch of fresh ideas. I don't have to stick with "Gym... Gym... Trainer... Gym...".

So, basically you can write about anything! (... And, some people really do write about... anything...)

JX Valentine
June 22nd, 2008, 01:40 PM
To add to BREAKINGBEN...

So what is there besides OT?

Well, Pokemon does have a massive cast of canon characters that are never or almost never written about. You can always create a story about one of them. There's Grace, the girl with the Medicham who competed against May and who currently engages in contests, if you want someone like a trainer but still fairly different. (Because, hey, OT stories don't involve the backstage drama of a beauty pageant.) There's Domino and every other Rocket agent, who all for some reason aren't taken advantage of, even though you've got a ton of potential there with stories about thief-heroes. Heck, there's even my favorite, Bill, who's a Pokemon researcher and therefore is begging for tons of nutty sci-fi adventures. (I mean, come on. Pokemon meets Jurassic Park? Pokemon meets Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Pokemon meets The Blob? Why have these never actually come to being?)

So, really, you don't even have to create an original character if you don't want to. Pokemon's one of those odd fandoms where people tend to be shy around using the huge cast of characters canon already gives you, unlike in every other fandom where most people cling like none other to the canon cast and maybe insert one or two original characters (who are often Mary Sues anyway). Pokemon canon doesn't even bother trying to give a number of the characters it creates solid characterizations, so you actually have plenty of freedom of choice and creativity -- more so than a lot of other fandoms out there. It's just that a lot of people don't even consider that there are untold stories in the Pokemon fandom and attempt to create a new puppet for a new OT story.

Otherwise, as BREAKINGBEN said, there's a lot of other genres that the Pokemon fandom can cover. Your original character might not even need to be a new trainer. Like characters, Pokemon canon offers a lot of flexibility with occupations as well. Not only are there coordinators, thieves, and researchers, but there's also breeders, watchers, gym leaders, collectors, hunters/poachers, nurses, and even occupations that don't actually work with Pokemon directly but instead maybe on the side, like construction workers directing a bunch of Fighting-type Pokemon. And even then, there's also the possibility of working with older trainers -- people who are already established as trainers and are simply going on an adventure other than your standard journey. At the risk of ego tripping, all of the characters in my pet fanfiction (in my sig) are original trainers, but they're all also established. Thus, the fic isn't about a journey where someone starts off from a town with a new Pokemon by their side. It's about how they use Pokemon to accomplish what it is they set out to do. So, yes, it's perfectly possible to write original characters in the Pokemon universe, but you just have to stretch your imagination with it and will yourself to find something else for a trainer to do besides start a journey with their starters by their sides.

Likewise, varied occupations come varied genres. A scientist, as I've said before, might open up a world of science fiction for you. Romance may come from coordinators (and often does, actually), breeders, what have you. Mystery for police officers like Officer Jenny.

Really, the world of Pokemon fanfiction is vast and full of variety. All you need to do is think outside the box by looking at just the basics that you have to work with. For a Pokemon fanfiction, you only need one thing after all: Pokemon. Figure out where to go from there by looking at what you can do with Pokemon. You can get some hints by looking at canon -- specifically, the people Ash or so-and-so meets along the way.

Dr. Mack Foxx
June 22nd, 2008, 01:57 PM
Hmmm... I'm not familiar with the fan-fic community jargon. May someone please enlighten me as to what exactly an "OT Fic" is? Original Trainer?

Matt11
June 22nd, 2008, 02:06 PM
Yeah, thats exactly it, original trainer..

JX Valentine
June 22nd, 2008, 02:13 PM
Hmmm... I'm not familiar with the fan-fic community jargon. May someone please enlighten me as to what exactly an "OT Fic" is? Original Trainer?

To be specific, yes, it's short for "original trainer," but it often refers to not only original trainers but also new trainers and the genre that surrounds them -- as in, fics about trainers who start off on their journeys through X region, following a gym circuit and raising a team -- as well as sequels to new trainer fics. In other words, the genre usually refers to journey fics, not just any fic with an original character who happens to be a trainer.

Matt11
June 22nd, 2008, 02:27 PM
oh, i thought it was any story that had a made up trainer in it...

JX Valentine
June 22nd, 2008, 02:43 PM
oh, i thought it was any story that had a made up trainer in it...

Technically, you could call any story with a fan-created trainer an OT story. However, most people really just stop at journey fics because almost all (or at least a large number of) writers who write OTs put their OTs in those kinds of fics, whereas the people who write original trainers that aren't just going on the badge collection tour or the save-the-world tour or the mystic quest tour or whatever else that a journey fic entails generally don't label their fics as OTs to avoid being lumped with the majority of journey fics.

Dr. Mack Foxx
June 22nd, 2008, 03:03 PM
To be specific, yes, it's short for "original trainer," but it often refers to not only original trainers but also new trainers and the genre that surrounds them -- as in, fics about trainers who start off on their journeys through X region, following a gym circuit and raising a team -- as well as sequels to new trainer fics. In other words, the genre usually refers to journey fics, not just any fic with an original character who happens to be a trainer.

Ah, ha! I see. Thank you very much for the explanation.

Matt11
June 22nd, 2008, 03:27 PM
Ah, ha! I see. Thank you very much for the explanation.
Aren't you going to answer the original question?

Astinus
June 22nd, 2008, 07:27 PM
He doesn't have to. :|

To add on to Jax's and Ben's answers, you don't even have to write about humans in the Pokemon world. People have taken the plot of Mystery Dungeon R/B/T/D and used that to write fics about. No humans there. Also, there are fics out there that just take Pokemon and have them live their lives or try to get away from humans.

Really, the Pokemon canon is a vast canon with a lot unexplored yet. There's a lot to write about other than a new trainer challenging the gyms.

Dr. Mack Foxx
June 23rd, 2008, 10:33 AM
Aren't you going to answer the original question?

I shall. To be honest, I rarely ever read fan-fictions. I stick primarily to writing as my huge stories tend to take a lot of time to complete. There have only been a handful of fics that I've read through over the years. However, the OT genre does seem plagued with a lot of bad stories and the whole OT concept seems to be overused. Still, it's always worth it to find the gems in the junk.

Really, the Pokemon canon is a vast canon with a lot unexplored yet. There's a lot to write about other than a new trainer challenging the gyms.

Indeed, indeed.

iLike2EatPiez
June 23rd, 2008, 10:59 AM
I really think it's just that at this point, people know what to expect from OT fics. Probably around 90% of all of them seem to follow this basic storyline:


Trainer gets starter Pokemon from Professor X.
Trainer leaves hometown and heads off on a journey.
Trainer catches new Pokemon occasionally.
Trainer battles gym leaders and perhaps meets another trainer to travel with.


And there, I kind of have to stop, because quite honestly, I'm pretty sure I've only read one OT fic that didn't end abruptly once either constructive critisism came in or it began to seem more and more cliche'd. (That one exceptional fic I read was Dragonfree's The Quest for the Legends, by the way, which was less centered around the topic of a trainer's quest to be a master and more aimed toward a much more thought-out and detailed plot) I even admit to ending my own OT fic, despite all the ideas I had for it, simply because it became boring to write.

But the main point of my answer is that with every new OT fic (and there are ALWAYS new OT fics being made), the genre becomes more and more predicable. On occasion you will come across one that is more unique or has plot twists to separate it from this "stereotype", but as I said before, there's like 90% or more of them that follow the above plotline. There's nothing wrong with OT fics. It's just that after so many, and with them all looking vaguely identical, more experienced authors/reviwers tend to grow bored with them, and easily are led to expect most OT fics to be the same as the previous ones they read.

darkcowboy
June 23rd, 2008, 11:57 AM
the only thing i hate about OT fics is the appearance of legendaries. -kills all the legendaries-
we see them enough in the games, manga, movies and even the tv show on some rare occasions, but i definately don't want to read about them as well.

Gummy
June 23rd, 2008, 01:10 PM
the only thing i hate about OT fics is the appearance of legendaries. -kills all the legendaries-
we see them enough in the games, manga, movies and even the tv show on some rare occasions, but i definately don't want to read about them as well.

I think you're talking about "Chosen One" fics. OTs usually just deals with a group of trainers (or a single trainer) traveling around a region, collecting badges, beating the bad team, and winning the Pokemon League. Legendaries come up a few times in the story but usually aren't the bulk of it, like in "Chosen One" fics, whereas the main character is pretty much surrounded by legendary Pokemon.

BakingBluePotatoe
June 23rd, 2008, 01:24 PM
i love OT fics!

I just hate it when things are either:

Short
Stupid
Clich'd
Horribly-Written


which is several fics...

although, several fics are acctually a pretty good read.

DarkPersian479's "Lurking in the Shadows" for instance: While I don't usually like the Spoiled Rich Girl characters, Lisa makes for a pretty interesting Heroine. And the fact the Meowth is the starter and not something like Charmander, Squirtle, or Treeko... makes for some WONDERFUL origionality. And it's VERY descriptive, and keeps me reading!


And BREAKINGBEN's stories often have several twists and turns, making his stories quite an interesting read. His chapters may not be quite is long as DP's (Though, the heavy description in DP's writing could be the cause of this), but they're just as eye-catching!



~~~~~

My story as well will have several different Twists and turns along the way (though, I won't tell you any :p)

BladedScizor
June 23rd, 2008, 01:53 PM
I personally think that a big part of what makes an OT fic good is the writer's ability to find a niche where they can stand out, whether the plot is predictable or not. I have a couple examples here of some of my favorite stories.

Lurking in the Shadows: Lisa's Ultimate Challenge by DarkPersian479: It has a kinda cliche plot, with the evil team and all, but the unique characters really sets it apart from other fics. The main character, the friends she meets, and even her enemies(or maybe it's especially her enemies) tend to have distinct, almost off-the-wall personalities, which also results in fairly unique situations and conversations.

Never in the Wrong Time or Wrong Place by Griff: This fic deviates from the standard path of journey fics several times, and the journey itself tends to take a backseat to the relationships and character development of the main character and his Pokemon.

Burning Spirit by Banov: This one would be awesome just for the sheer simplicity of it, but the unexpected situations and well-executed character development helps it even more. One man set on defeating a particular tough Gym Leader for the sake of impressing a lovely lady friend, that's it.


As for my own story, I'm told that my description and fighting scenes are particularly good, which will hopefully show more as I continue posting it here. I'm also fairly proud of the character development, particularly that given to the main character's Pokemon.

Enperuto
June 23rd, 2008, 08:25 PM
I think you're talking about "Chosen One" fics. OTs usually just deals with a group of trainers (or a single trainer) traveling around a region, collecting badges, beating the bad team, and winning the Pokemon League. Legendaries come up a few times in the story but usually aren't the bulk of it, like in "Chosen One" fics, whereas the main character is pretty much surrounded by legendary Pokemon.

Except most trainer/OT also make the trainer a chosen one. Because how can't someone get 8 badges and then not be compelled to save the universe from doom.

I think why people stray from canon characters is because a large portion of fandom doesn't like the anime, and most don't read the manga. Besides that, game characters are rather 2 dimensional (he he...) and most of them don't develop back story. The only people that really use canon characters are shippers.... maybe that's the cause of inpopularity?

Really, there is a lack of good science fiction and fantasy, I think. I've found a few - Jax wrote a couple - but there's no big section anywhere or site with tons of sf.

As far as OT goes, most people have seen lots of battles and they won't be alluring anymore to hear the same old thing. Thus, you might want to focus more on character driven story, especially the trainer - pokemon and trainer - trainer interactions.

JX Valentine
June 25th, 2008, 04:25 PM
I think why people stray from canon characters is because a large portion of fandom doesn't like the anime,

I hesitate to make this generalization, actually. Even with the cast changes, the anime is still immensely popular, and a number of people I know are quick to say they think the anime's actually getting better from the rut it was in a few seasons ago.

Besides that, game characters are rather 2 dimensional (he he...) and most of them don't develop back story.

That's the point, though. Because the games don't really give them much in the way of characterization, they're far more flexible than more developed characters in other fandoms. It's up to us to decide who they are, based on what little information we have of them.

For example, let's take Wes. Throughout Colosseum, you're given the following details about Wes:

1. He was once a member of Team Snagem.
2. He decided to defect for reasons never explicitly stated, destroying the Snagem base in the process.
3. He never says a word but escorts Rui because she insists on following him. (For that matter, he doesn't bother to protest her clingy nature, but he doesn't show affection towards her, either.)

Other than that, we're given nothing, not even much of a personality. Whenever I wanted to write about him, I had to build him up, based on those few details I knew. This means not only figuring out whether he's just a hero with messed up ethics, if he wants to go straight, or if he just intends on being a criminal and is only doing things that ultimately benefits him. This also means figuring out how he would react to people and various situations and maybe building up a little history as well. Was I successful? Maybe. (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=119509)

Point is, yes, it's hard to figure out how to handle a canon character, but it's not at all impossible just because canon didn't give you anything. Yes, you just have to put in a bit of extra work, but you have the rudimentary foundations at least. So, it's slightly easier than just working with a completely original character because while you might have to build up the character a little and figure them out, for an original character, you start with absolutely nothing.

The only people that really use canon characters are shippers.... maybe that's the cause of inpopularity?

*raises hand* Not a shipper.

On the other hand, I wouldn't say that my CC-centered fics are particularly popular (except for that one monstrosity on FFNet whose name I don't think I'll repeat), but I don't think they're ignored, either. And they're certainly not entirely shippy.

Really, there is a lack of good science fiction and fantasy, I think. I've found a few - Jax wrote a couple - but there's no big section anywhere or site with tons of sf.

Thanks. And I agree. With fantasy, that tends to mingle with the entire Chosen One/Mystic Quest storyline by giving trainers special powers or Pokemon so they can ride off to Mordor to throw the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom, but science fiction and fantasy that doesn't rip off every other plotline everyone else has ever done? Yeah, I'd like to see more of this.

Astinus
June 25th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Except most trainer/OT also make the trainer a chosen one. Because how can't someone get 8 badges and then not be compelled to save the universe from doom.
Kinda like how in my other two favorite fandoms, the characters that save the world also have to go to school. *nods sagely* It's just a matter of balancing life.

I think why people stray from canon characters is because a large portion of fandom doesn't like the anime, and most don't read the manga.
:|

Besides that, game characters are rather 2 dimensional (he he...) and most of them don't develop back story.
But that's part of the fun with writing about them. Either the game characters or the character-of-the-day(cotd) from the anime. You can delve into their mind further than what their creators did and give them a history that they didn't have before.

Heck, let me give an example that'll implode your mind. I have been, and will be, writing fanfics about Harrison (http://www.serebii.net/anime/characters/harrison.shtml) from the anime. He really doesn't have all that much in terms of history or personality. But somehow he endeared himself to me, and I gave him a past, a present, and a future in my fics. That's the fun I have as an author: learning about my characters by writing about them.

The only people that really use canon characters are shippers.... maybe that's the cause of inpopularity?
Don't ship in the Pokemon fandom. Besides, I'm not really sure what you're implying. Are you saying that people just don't like shipping? Or that shipping fics tend to be of horrible quality? Because I know of some damn good shipping fanfics.

Alli
June 26th, 2008, 02:50 PM
The only people that really use canon characters are shippers.... maybe that's the cause of inpopularity?

The reason there's use of canon characters for ships is so that readers who like the ship can read it, of course, and really, not many people want to read a shipping story on people they've never heard of, do they? And would you really want to make up characters just to make up a shipping? It just doesn't seem right, ergo, yes, we mainly use canon characters.

And I have no shame in doing so.

I think why people stray from canon characters is because a large portion of fandom doesn't like the anime, and most don't read the manga.

I agree with Astinus: :|

I think you might want to take a stroll around the manga section and the anime section of the forum. There's plenty of people in the fandom that watch the anime/read the manga, including myself.

Don't ship in the Pokemon fandom. Besides, I'm not really sure what you're implying. Are you saying that people just don't like shipping? Or that shipping fics tend to be of horrible quality? Because I know of some damn good shipping fanfics.

To add onto this, excluding what I've stated above, if you are implying this, I'd like you to take a lovely stroll into the Pokemon Special Fan Club. Half of our topics have to do with shipping. And also, take a peek at the Shipping Community at Serebii Forums. Lots and lots of threads for general dicussion on many, many ships.

And I also know plenty of good shipping fan fics. That's what compelled me to write, thank you. And no, it's not Just A Brother. I've come to...blecharehdufda dislike my fic. Anyway, take a look at Oni Flygon's stories. Most, if not all, of those are shipping. They're fantastic.

Baa.Baa.Blacksheep
July 10th, 2008, 06:19 PM
I personally don't like OT stories. Well, I don't mind OT stories, but only if they have some cannon characters. I like to see how people interpret the cannon characters, myself. Of course, most of the fanfics that I read are shipping fanfics, so that may also have something to do with it...I greatly dislike when people put cannon characters with OTs.

But, this is all my opinion. :3

emeraldslay
July 11th, 2008, 03:49 PM
I really enjoy O.T. fics that're written well. It's possibly my favorite genre when it's done correctly - however, I've found a lot of them to follow the same formula, which can get tiresome after some time.

burningfoot
July 16th, 2008, 12:39 AM
There are very few good OT fics. I've written some that I refuse to publish because I've ended up including all the same old rubbish lots of people do. The best OT fics I think are ones that do something different to the normal ones or follow the normal rules of the genre but have the main character not enjoying the cliches and turn it into a complete piss take of the genre. So I don't hate OTs I just think people need to keep the O in OTs. lol.

Sunnybeam
July 22nd, 2008, 05:53 PM
There are very few good OT fics. I've written some that I refuse to publish because I've ended up including all the same old rubbish lots of people do. The best OT fics I think are ones that do something different to the normal ones or follow the normal rules of the genre but have the main character not enjoying the cliches and turn it into a complete piss take of the genre. So I don't hate OTs I just think people need to keep the O in OTs. lol.

Bold = TRUTH.

OT fanfictions can be good. VERY good. Anyone looking for an astoundingly good OT fic, go to FFnet and search for Vision of Darkness: The Sinnoh League by Bubblebeam.

On the other hand, they can be bad...VERY bad. And sadly, we see more of this than the former. I don't know if everyone has seen this, but I have noticed that nearly everyone entertains the notion of an OT fic at some point. (Including myself, and MAN IT SUCKED. >_<) What happens - or at least, this is what I've seen - is that the middling or...noobish...writers think, "Yeah! It's great! I'll write it!" while the more advanced writers hold back, running the plot, characters and concepts through that harsh cycle of revision. And when I say harsh, I'm talking about the revision that spurs authors to rewrite their fics. Which I have done.

What comes out is either a VERY good OT fic, or something that isn't really an OT fic anymore.

The OTs I've read...VoD:TSL is the only one I've ever kept an interest in. The problem with most is that not only is the plot repetitive, but the characters fail to grab your interest long enough for the plot to become un-repetitive. Sometimes it takes a while for a character's personality tobe fully developed, but OT fics can't risk that delay. They have to establish characters from the start, or else have the most kick-butt plot on this planet and others.