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invisible-chan
July 26th, 2008, 04:58 PM
EDIT: If you bother to read what I've written below, please read the other posts as well. Someone may/probably has already addressed one of the points I made. Thank you.

I really like the manga a lot. And I agree that the violence makes it seem more realistic. There's a great plot that doesn't seem to exist in the anime, and they aren't flat in personality. I find it awesomr how the Pokemon aren't limited to existing attacks and know more than four moves (I'm pretty sure you don't need to make your dog forget how to sit in order to make roll over).

There are things, however, that really bug me. The elite Four are portrayed a evil people who hate humans and are for the ruling of Pokemon. Since when? I hated how Lance was basically evil instead of the really cool champion.

Green is the "mysterious quiet type." As smexy as I find it, he isn't the adorably obnoxious kid he's supposed to be. Most ten year olds I see don't act like that. What ever happened to, "Smell ya' later!?" I also how they portrayed Pryce. He was an awesome gym leader who ended ups as a selfish guy who kidnapped kids. I mean I understand that he wanted his two Lapras back, but why kidnap children?
Yellow is another thing that bugs me. I'm fine with Yellow's character; she's cute. I'm even fine with her being a girl, but the fact the she's almost canonically shipped with Red bugs me. They are technically the same person in the game. Why in the world would you want to be paired with yourself from a parallel universe. This goes for other hero/heroine ships (mostly mangaquest). I think the best way for them to coexist would be siblings. I'm not as mad at the new gen ships because they actually meet each other in the games and have separate families.

Why were the badges used to summon Lugia? I mean, why give them out if you lost? I'm pretty sure that other who had beaten gym leaders were given badges too, so wouldn't summoning Lugia be even easier with those many badges. Why were the some of the Gym leaders evil? Why would they give you a badge if they were?

From what I have read of the RS arc, why did Sapphire have the weaker Pokemon when she was the main rival?

I've only read up to the GSC arcand a little of the RS arc, but I do know about other important parts of the manga like Silver and his father. I know a lot you may hate me for disliking the aforementioned things, but it breaks from what was supposed to happen in the games.

So now that I'm done with my rant, I wanna hear your opinions. What did you find wrong with the manga? Why are some of the things mentioned above okay despite being against the game and really clarify. Why did it change large aspects that happened in the game?

If you're mad enough to flame me go right ahead. I will use them to roast marshmallows and for lols.

Cyan Goggles
July 26th, 2008, 05:43 PM
xD !

For some reason, I laughed at this. Not in a mean condescending way!
Just because you're right. xD Some things I agree with, some I don't, but everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I thank you for stating yours maturely. :3

Any beefs I really I have with the manga, I brush off, because I'm like that, but one thing that always really bugged me is that none of the main characters have any level one hundred pokemon. I can get the younger kids, but... the oldest are 16 are they? Why don't they have a single pokemon up there, especially with all that training they claim to be doing? I dunno. Just bugs me that after 6 or so years that can't mange that. xD;

Also, the marshmallow comment at the end... gold. Pure gold. xD

hoennshipperxxx
July 27th, 2008, 02:26 AM
invisible i agree with you but none of these things bother me :P
and what do you mean with sapphire having weaker pokemon?

invisible-chan
July 27th, 2008, 12:21 PM
I meant that she was supposed to be the rival character, and yet, she had the weaker starter. I didn't get that.

chamo-chan
July 27th, 2008, 12:24 PM
I meant that she was supposed to be the rival character, and yet, she had the weaker starter. I didn't get that.

Maybe it's because Ruby started with a Water type, Mudkip, and Sapphire has the Fire Type, Torchic.

invisible-chan
July 27th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Maybe it's because Ruby started with a Water type, Mudkip, and Sapphire has the Fire Type, Torchic.
Well, the thing is, Ruby would be the player character and Sapphire would be the rival if this were the game. Norman is Ruby's father and Prof. Birch is Sapphire's father, thus supporting this fact. Now because this is true, Sapphire should have the starter with the upper hand, no matter what type. For Example: Red w/Bulbasaur and Green w/Charmander and Gold w/Cyndiquil and Silver w/Totodile. Sapphire should have a Pokemon superior element wise to Ruby if this trend were to continue, but she doesn't. This is what I am questioning.

Cyan Goggles
July 27th, 2008, 01:58 PM
I think it was symbolism, because we found out Ruby was so much stronger then he was letting anyone know. I think maybe him having the elemental upper hand was a hint to his battling superiority.

invisible-chan
July 27th, 2008, 02:11 PM
I think it was symbolism, because we found out Ruby was so much stronger then he was letting anyone know. I think maybe him having the elemental upper hand was a hint to his battling superiority.
That sounds reasonable. And after thinking about, Wally/Emerald is shown to be the rival and Sapphire the third member who's Pokemon beat's the rivals ie: Crystal, Blue, Berlitz.

Cyan Goggles
July 27th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Ha-ha, Well, not so much the third person as the girl out of the three, right?

invisible-chan
July 27th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Ha-ha, Well, not so much the third person as the girl out of the three, right?
Heh, well pretty much. XD

Ru-Kun
July 28th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I meant that she was supposed to be the rival character, and yet, she had the weaker starter. I didn't get that.

Techneclly Sapphire shouldn't be considered a rival character just because Ruby was introduced 1st so they both should be considered a player and rival.

Well, the thing is, Ruby would be the player character and Sapphire would be the rival if this were the game. Norman is Ruby's father and Prof. Birch is Sapphire's father, thus supporting this fact. Now because this is true, Sapphire should have the starter with the upper hand, no matter what type. For Example: Red w/Bulbasaur and Green w/Charmander and Gold w/Cyndiquil and Silver w/Totodile. Sapphire should have a Pokemon superior element wise to Ruby if this trend were to continue, but she doesn't. This is what I am questioning.

Well this isn't the game this is the manga sooooo things don't have to be the same if everything were the same the manga would get oh I don't know boring.

That sounds reasonable. And after thinking about, Wally/Emerald is shown to be the rival and Sapphire the third member who's Pokemon beat's the rivals ie: Crystal, Blue, Berlitz.

Wally is not I repeat is not Emerald that was the original plan but they had already introduced him as a minor character with a small roll. Then Emerald version came out an they, the writer, decided to make him an Emerald-like character ,but since having a minor roll that wasn't enough so the writer decided to make a new character named Emerald. Bottem line Wally is not Emerald.

Sapphire isn't the third charecter she is the 9th total and the 2nd for the RS arc.

Cyan Goggles
July 28th, 2008, 11:37 AM
She never said Wally was Emerald. She said "/" meaning and/or.

And she ment the third character in terms of the whole grouping. Like "Red, Green, Blue" "Gold, Silver, Crystal"

Ryousha
July 28th, 2008, 01:07 PM
Red starting out with bulbasaur, then in the end of FR/LG he has a charizard and green has Venasaur

Fire Red
Leaf Green

Netto Azure
July 28th, 2008, 03:02 PM
Well this isn't the game this is the manga sooooo things don't have to be the same if everything were the same the manga would get oh I don't know boring.

I was going to make that point too! I mean don't bash the PokeSpe since the anime is waaayyy(x10) more different from the game than PokeSpe.

invisible-chan
July 29th, 2008, 02:29 AM
Techneclly Sapphire shouldn't be considered a rival character just because Ruby was introduced 1st so they both should be considered a player and rival.
Already addressed.

Well this isn't the game this is the manga sooooo things don't have to be the same if everything were the same the manga would get oh I don't know boring.
I'm not saying that it has to be the same, I just miss certain aspects of the plot which were removed. Besides, Pokemon Zenshou, I think it was, was closer to the game, but was still great. Now I'm not saying that PokeSpecial needs to change its ways, just questioning the plot.


Wally is not I repeat is not Emerald that was the original plan but they had already introduced him as a minor character with a small roll. Then Emerald version came out an they, the writer, decided to make him an Emerald-like character ,but since having a minor roll that wasn't enough so the writer decided to make a new character named Emerald. Bottem line Wally is not Emerald.
Cyan already addressed this for me.

Sapphire isn't the third charecter she is the 9th total and the 2nd for the RS arc.
I don't mean it that way. Cyan also addressed this as she's the girl of the main character trio. Her starter is weaker than the hero and stronger than the rival.

I was going to make that point too! I mean don't bash the PokeSpe since the anime is waaayyy(x10) more different from the game than PokeSpe.
I'm not bashing. I said earlier that I really like the manga. I'm stating, calmly and clearly, the things that I don't agree with in the manga. I've given up on the anime for a while now so anything that has happened past Misty leaving, I know little about, besides Dawn, May, and other characters.

shewholovespineapples
August 16th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Sometimes I do wish that they could keep certain things more like the games, particularly the characterization. But, for the most part, I'm happy with the way PokeSpecial is. Not quite the games, but still enough like the games to make me nostalgic over reading GSC... (my favorite games ever) and such...

I never thought about the "parellel self shipping" thingy before... o_0

Ash_Pokemaster
August 17th, 2008, 06:01 AM
All right, here are some nice points I was waiting for someone to point out! Myself, I had noticed them while reading Pokespe. It took me a while, but I found a nice explaination for pretty much everything. :) Despite the fact that I agree with some of your arguements, there are still some things I am not for, so I will post with my opinions. :P

The elite Four are portrayed a evil people who hate humans and are for the ruling of Pokemon. Since when? I hated how Lance was basically evil instead of the really cool champion.
As true as this is, that Elite Four somehow had their position changed, it does not necessarily mean that their role is completely different. For example, although I'm not sure if it is mentioned on the first sagas, the name "Elite Four" remains still, and they are still considered four of the most powerful trainers that exist. Their appearence in Pokemon Special is quite different, considering that they are not officially part of the League at first, as they appear to be in the games, however, they are just as interesting, and give the exact same feeling. I believe that the Manga writers wanted to give them a little background story, and I'm sure that they did that in a perfect way.

So, although not part of the Pokemon League, they are still the "Elite Four," and are still four of the best Trainers. I don't see what the problem is. Not to mention that they are neither exactly evil nor do they despise humans, at least later. True, their appearence in Yellow Saga could be less on the edge, but if you read later chapters, you will find out that Elite Four are not exactly one sort of thing; they are developed differently every time, on an interesting way too, yet they still are the Elite Four we all know. I could explain to you what I mean, but I don't think you would like to have the story spoiled. :P

Green is the "mysterious quiet type." As smexy as I find it, he isn't the adorably obnoxious kid he's supposed to be. Most ten year olds I see don't act like that. What ever happened to, "Smell ya' later!?" I also how they portrayed Pryce. He was an awesome gym leader who ended ups as a selfish guy who kidnapped kids. I mean I understand that he wanted his two lapras back, but why kidnap children?
Yellow is another thing that bugs me. I'm fine with Yellow's character; she's cute. I'm even fine with her being a girl, but the fact the she's almost canonically shipped with Red bugs me. They are technically the same person in the game. Why in the world would you want to be paired with yourself from a parallel universe. This goes for other hero/heroine ships (mostly mangaquest). I think the best way for them to coexist would be siblings. I'm not as mad at the new gen ships because they actually meet each other in the games and have separate families.

At first, I also believed that Green's role was changed a lot, but in the end, I was wrong. In Pokemon Special, although being the "mysterious quite type," at first he is pretty much the bully and the badass he is supposed to be. Remember the VS Kangaskahn chapter? If Red wasn't there, Green would probably have killed the baby Kangaskahn. Furthermore, it has been stated that the two had different ways of training their Pokemon, with Green not caring about his Pokemon's feelings, and thinking of them as fighting machines in the first chapters. As for his relation with Red, well, we don't have a lot about their background pasts, so we wouldn't know if they knew each other when they were kids. So, being still the cocky and arrogant guy, Green's character is developed so that it woud collide with the respective one in the game; if there is anything different in him, it is in the first chapters. Also, the "Smell ya later!" was probably cut due to translation differences between games. :P I suppose that we can still have it in our minds! ;)

Moving to Pryce, it is true that what appears to be the Mask of Ice, is something that never appeared in the games. However, don't forget that Team Rocket's actions on that time, could be adapted into this. The scenario of Pokemon Special would be one scenario that could in fact be present in the game too without changing a thing. Pryce is still the mysterious guy that could be anyone with nobody knowing. And the kidnap of children was a nice way of connecting a lot of things. Like Blue with Silver, as well as Karen with Will, who could be having some sort of relationship, hence the similar scheme they share. In the end, I would say that this outcome was a plot twist. Also, this is an example of a nice way of Elite Four formation, if you want my opinion. :P

If had to describe the situation with Yellow, I would use the exactly same verb; "bugs me." Interesting to note that I believe the same things about Yellow! :O I believe that she could be Red's "lost" sister, considering that they share so many similarities that it would take years to make a list. On a side note, they are far from canonically shipped in the manga either. They are mostly like Blue and Silver. Meaning that there is still a certain people number that believe they could make a couple, although their relationship is mostly siblings-like. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. I would say that if there is one shipping I would like, that would be Red with Blue, judging from their actions in later chapters. The couple-like similarities they share are just so apparent, so clear, that I am sure that anyone who has read some of the FireRed and LeafGreen Chapter can't think differently. :P On a side note, they both at from the game, and are put together in a lot of fan-made media.

Also, what you say about game characters being siblings if they do not have indifferent in-game roles otherwise, I do not agree with. Blue's appearence was perfect in my opinion. It COMPLETELY reflected her being absent from the Generation I games, considering that her goal and role was different. It was like the writers predected Silver and the remakes of Generation I games! Also, judging from Volume 23, which I've read, her appearence in FireRed and LeafGreen Saga, is so perfect, that I can't even believe how the manga writers developed her character so much! As for Crystal, well, she also bears one great role. Appearing later reflected that she wasn't exactly a character that primarily appeared in the Games. Also, the role she holded, completing the Pokedex, fully adapted the games' features for capturing Pokemon, a thing that wasn't able to be accomplished by Gold himself, since he was supposed to follow the main plot events. Her appearence later, along with Gold and Silver was also well-made. ;)

Why were the badges used to summon Lugia? I mean, why give them out if you lost? I'm pretty sure that other who had beaten gym leaders were given badges too, so Wouldn't summoning Lugia be even easier with those many badges. Why were the some of the Gym leaders evil? Why would they give you a badge if they were?
Budges summoning Lugia was a Deus Ex Machina to give a nice plot twist with Team Rocket. I believe that it wasn't a bad event at all. And summoning Lugia with the Badges wasn't a known fact, so not really everyone could have done so. Gym Leaders being "evil" is also one of the best aspects in the RGB Saga of Pokemon Special, in my opinion. To begin with, they were not completely unbased. Giovanni, himself the boss of Team Rocket, but still a Gym Leader is an explaination that can be given. Furthermore, take Blaine; his background past is completely unknown, but his involvement in the creation of Mewtwo is clear as day. Take his appearence, being a Scientist, for example. And as we all know, that Team Rocket's relationship to the events in the Pokemon Mansion are not really minor. So, you could say that even in the Games, Blaine could be supposed to be related to Team Rocket. Lt. Surge might not exactly be the apparent Team Rocket member, but his badass personality, along with his actions and speech could have him be one. Same goes to the mysterious Sabrina. As for the reason they were giving out their badges, well, they weren't supposed to be known as Team Rocket members. ;)

From what I have read of the RS arc, why did Sapphire have the weaker Pokemon when she was the main rival?
Starter Pokemon in Special are not chosen by the rock-paper-scisor rule, but by official character arts that has trainers along with their Pokemon, as well as what Pokemon fits to each trainer. If I recall correctly, the then Sugimori arts, had Ruby using a Mudkip, and Sapphire using a Torchic. Of course, while time passed by, both of them appeared with all of the starters, but heck, I believe that Mudkip fits Ruby, and Torchic to Sapphire! This is also a way to say that it is not like Ruby is the Player character, but both are. :P Same applies with the Red's, Green's and Blue's starter Pokemon. What I want to see however, is Red getting a Charizard! Of course it wouldn't be necessarily trading with Green, as their bonds with their starter Pokemon are tight, but I'm sure that other Charmanders exist! What would I give to see Red in the GS Remakes having an additional role and using a Charizard only out of the starters! That would be enough to give him a Charizard in the manga adaption of GSDS. :P

All in all, I believe that Pokemon Special is not only a great adaption of the games, but also an interesting one. It follows pretty much the events, while it adds elements that makes you loose no interest. Any changed that can be claimed to exist is not unexplained. If you seek it deeply, you will surely find a nice reason for something to happen. As for additional things to the plot, personally, they are welcome to me, as they are ALWAYS things that could happen on the game itself, and are not unbased! :) The small details of Pokemon Special are what makes it not only a great Pokemon Manga, but a nice Manga itself. Although based on the game, it is fresh, new, interesting, and unforeseeable! ;)

I'm sure that I'm not the only one that felt them as something completely new, even after playing the games more than once. :P

manganohime
August 25th, 2008, 03:46 AM
xD !


Any beefs I really I have with the manga, I brush off, because I'm like that, but one thing that always really bugged me is that none of the main characters have any level one hundred pokemon. I can get the younger kids, but... the oldest are 16 are they? Why don't they have a single pokemon up there, especially with all that training they claim to be doing? I dunno. Just bugs me that after 6 or so years that can't mange that. xD;



Yeah, six years is a long time... my brother hasn't had his game for even a year and he has his Charizard at level 100...

Sydian
August 26th, 2008, 05:47 PM
I'm fine with Yellow's character; she's cute. I'm even fine with her being a girl, but the fact the she's almost canonically shipped with Red bugs me.

I'd like to make note that just because the writers have portrayed SpecialShipping to be pretty close to canon, it doesn't mean it will become so. I love SpecialShipping, personally, but you know what else there is? Jade, Viridian, Granted, Amber, Feeling, Health, and many more that can become canon. Some of those I've listed already have evidence. Ho hum.

chamo-chan
August 27th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I'd like to make note that just because the writers have portrayed SpecialShipping to be pretty close to canon, it doesn't mean it will become so. I love SpecialShipping, personally, but you know what else there is? Jade, Viridian, Granted, Amber, Feeling, Health, and many more that can become canon. Some of those I've listed already have evidence. Ho hum.

I agree with Splatty.
Even though there are alot of supposed Special Shipping hints, it doesn't mean that it will become canon. (Trust me, I've dealt with some overly obssesed special shippers who think that Special Shipping is canon.....)

<3yellow<3
August 27th, 2008, 05:56 PM
EDIT: If you bother to read what I've written below, please read the other posts as well. Someone may/probably has already addressed one of the points I made. Thank you.

I really like the manga a lot. And I agree that the violence makes it seem more realistic. There's a great plot that doesn't seem to exist in the anime, and they aren't flat in personality. I find it awesomr how the Pokemon aren't limited to existing attacks and know more than four moves (I'm pretty sure you don't need to make your dog forget how to sit in order to make roll over).

There are things, however, that really bug me. The elite Four are portrayed a evil people who hate humans and are for the ruling of Pokemon. Since when? I hated how Lance was basically evil instead of the really cool champion.

Green is the "mysterious quiet type." As smexy as I find it, he isn't the adorably obnoxious kid he's supposed to be. Most ten year olds I see don't act like that. What ever happened to, "Smell ya' later!?" I also how they portrayed Pryce. He was an awesome gym leader who ended ups as a selfish guy who kidnapped kids. I mean I understand that he wanted his two lapras back, but why kidnap children?
Yellow is another thing that bugs me. I'm fine with Yellow's character; she's cute. I'm even fine with her being a girl, but the fact the she's almost canonically shipped with Red bugs me. They are technically the same person in the game. Why in the world would you want to be paired with yourself from a parallel universe. This goes for other hero/heroine ships (mostly mangaquest). I think the best way for them to coexist would be siblings. I'm not as mad at the new gen ships because they actually meet each other in the games and have separate families.

Why were the badges used to summon Lugia? I mean, why give them out if you lost? I'm pretty sure that other who had beaten gym leaders were given badges too, so Wouldn't summoning Lugia be even easier with those many badges. Why were the some of the Gym leaders evil? Why would they give you a badge if they were?

From what I have read of the RS arc, why did Sapphire have the weaker Pokemon when she was the main rival?

I've only read up to the GSC arcand a little of the RS arc, but I do know about other important parts of the manga like Silver and his father. I know a lot you may hate me for disliking the aforementioned things, but it breaks from what was supposed to happen in the games.

So now that I'm done with my rant, I wanna hear your opinions. What did you find wrong with the manga? Why are some of the things mentioned above okay despite being against the game and really clarify. Why did it change large aspects that happened in the game?

If you're mad enough to flame me go right ahead. I will use them to roast marshmallows and for lols.

1. Lance: There's a scene explaining his extreme hatred for most humans. It's a clip of him finding an extremely weak Dratini and Magikarp as a boy (his Dragonite + Gyrados), near-death because of a lake polluted due to the carelessness of humans. Lance rescues the two Pokemon, and we can assume that it was at this point that he decided to turn against man, disgusted by their actions and believing the world was in better hands under Pokemon, who obviously wouldn't pollute the world.

2. Green: I agree, to a point. I mean, in the manga, he trained for years with the Johto Fighting Gym Leader, so obviously once he returned to Kanto, he wasn't that arrogant, flamboyant kid who we all know and love from the Pokemon video games.

3. Pryce: I think his reasoning is best explaind in the statue that Blue and Silver find while escaping: The ice sculpture of Pryce and the 6 kids. From what we saw in the statue, it depicted Pryce as a kind, loving mentor/father figure, obviously a direct result of his experience with Lapras. His Lapras grew up without a loving father or mother... it was probably in his deepest instinct afterwards to assume a father figure, to feed his guilt, and try to overcome his lifelong burden.

4. Personally, I think the Red/Yellow ship is awesome. That you think of it as... almost in the literal video game sense is a bit strange. I never really thought of Red and Yellow as the same person. Yellow's small appearence in the FR/LG series grew on me, as did some of her other roles. I guess here, it's up to preference. But if you don't like auto-relationships, then stop reading if you're still beginning R/S

5. I'm not sure about the Lugia thing. As far as evil Gym Leaders are concerned, they were leaders who simply wanted power. Again, this is resolved a little bit later on, so finish reading.



Overall, this manga has been fantastic so far. I admit, when someone introduced me to the freaking Pokemon manga, of all things, I was extremely dubious. But I've enjoyed it so far, and wouldn't change a thing ^_^

As for now, I eagerly await the English releases of D/P, and for the plotline to resolve itself (you'll see :P).

Miyukii
August 28th, 2008, 12:04 AM
I agree with Splatty.
Even though there are alot of supposed Special Shipping hints, it doesn't mean that it will become canon. (Trust me, I've dealt with some overly obssesed special shippers who think that Special Shipping is canon.....)

Agreed with you and Splatty. But I haven't dealt with the 'shipping' itself.

invisible-chan
August 30th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Aww crud. I haven't been on this thread in a while and now I'll have to try to and respond to you all at once. *facepalm* Well, here goes!

I'd like to make note that just because the writers have portrayed SpecialShipping to be pretty close to canon, it doesn't mean it will become so. I love SpecialShipping, personally, but you know what else there is? Jade, Viridian, Granted, Amber, Feeling, Health, and many more that can become canon. Some of those I've listed already have evidence.
I have nothing personal against SpecialShipping, it's just a point I found a little irksome. Thank you though.

1. Lance: There's a scene explaining his extreme hatred for most humans. I know about and have read this scene. For me, it's just how he becomes a separate character from the one I'm used to in the game.

2. Green: I agree, to a point. I mean, in the manga, he trained for years with the Johto Fighting Gym Leader, so obviously once he returned to Kanto, he wasn't that arrogant, flamboyant kid who we all know and love from the Pokemon video games.
That would make sense since he never had intense training in the games.

3. Pryce: I think his reasoning is best explained in the statue that Blue and Silver find while escaping: The ice sculpture of Pryce and the 6 kids. From what we saw in the statue, it depicted Pryce as a kind, loving mentor/father figure, obviously a direct result of his experience with Lapras. His Lapras grew up without a loving father or mother... it was probably in his deepest instinct afterwards to assume a father figure, to feed his guilt, and try to overcome his lifelong burden. I'm not sure what you mean by this one. I understand that Pryce was being a father figure toward the kinds and the loss of his two parent Lapras, but why did he kidnap the children? That's my real concern.

4. Personally, I think the Red/Yellow ship is awesome. That you think of it as... almost in the literal video game sense is a bit strange. I never really thought of Red and Yellow as the same person. Yellow's small appearence in the FR/LG series grew on me, as did some of her other roles. I guess here, it's up to preference. But if you don't like auto-relationships, then stop reading if you're still beginning R/S. I have nothing against SpecialShipping as aforementioned. I realize that it isn't the same as the game, but it was roughly based on it. I'm just used to seeing the character of Yellow as I see Red. The same character who have somehwhat different plot experiences. In second gen, Red is pretty much is the Pikachu, aka Yellow, version character who has all the starters and an eeveelution. I'm okay with them coexisting, but having them paired weirds me out. It also goes with Quest and sometimes LuckyShipping. I'm okay with the R/S ship since they already coexist in the game.

5. I'm not sure about the Lugia thing. As far as evil Gym Leaders are concerned, they were leaders who simply wanted power. Again, this is resolved a little bit later on, so finish reading.
I have finished reading. I know they become good later on, but why where they bad in the first place?

Thank you guys for replying. I'll respond to anyone else later so I won't have too large a post.

Ash_Pokemaster
August 31st, 2008, 12:05 PM
[SIZE=1]IIt also goes with Quest and sometimes LuckyShipping. I'm okay with the R/S ship since they already coexist in the game.

Well, like I said in my earlier post, both Blue's and Crys' appearences are perfectly adapted so that the fact that they don't co-exist with the other characters shows. Especially for Blue's role. They have made it so that she has a totally different background story compared to the other characters, taking the fact that she did not appear until FireRed and LeafGreen. Take her relation with the Sevii Islands for example; how great is that?

I strongly believe that Red and Yellow are mostly like siblings, while Red and Blue grow so that it is implied that they fit together. :P I wish they could somehow make Red and Yellow officially siblings! It would rock the whole world. Heh. :P

invisible-chan
September 5th, 2008, 10:14 PM
Ash_Pokemaster, you had a huge post so I wanted to give it its own reply.
It does not necessarily mean that [the Elite Four's] role is completely different. The name "Elite Four" remains still, and they are still considered four of the most powerful trainers that exist. Their appearence in Pokemon Special is quite different, considering that they are not officially part of the League at first, as they appear to be in the games, however, they are just as interesting, and give the exact same feeling. I believe that the Manga writers wanted to give them a little background story, and I'm sure that they did that in a perfect way. I understand what you are saying about them, but why did they have to be portrayed as "evil"? Not, "I wanna kill everyone because I can," evil, but doing what is wrong for a "good" cause, in their perspective. Why were they not portrayed way the Hoen Elite four were? If I remember correctly, they were previous champions of the Indigo League or something like that.


At first, I also believed that Green's role was changed a lot, but in the end, I was wrong. In Pokemon Special, although being the "mysterious quite type," at first he is pretty much the bully and the badass he is supposed to be. It has been stated that the two had different ways of training their Pokemon, with Green not caring about his Pokemon's feelings, and thinking of them as fighting machines in the first chapters. As for his relation with Red, well, we don't have a lot about their background pasts, so we wouldn't know if they knew each other when they were kids. So, being still the cocky and arrogant guy, Green's character is developed so that it would collide with the respective one in the game; if there is anything different in him, it is in the first chapters. Also, the "Smell ya later!" was probably cut due to translation differences between games. :P I suppose that we can still have it in our minds! ;)I, grudgingly, realize what you mean about the "Smell ya later," line(>< It's so cute though!), but he wasn't a horrible person in the game. He was annoying and actually quite friendly. He was Red's friend/rival who was up for a little friendly competition. He was nice enough to tell you to thank Bill for the Pokemon storage system. He was a kid, not a cruel Pokemon killer.

Moving to Pryce, it is true that what appears to be the Mask of Ice, is something that never appeared in the games. However, don't forget that Team Rocket's actions on that time, could be adapted into this. Pryce is still the mysterious guy that could be anyone with nobody knowing. And the kidnap of children was a nice way of connecting a lot of things. Like Blue with Silver, as well as Karen with Will, who could be having some sort of relationship, hence the similar scheme they share. In the end, I would say that this outcome was a plot twist. Also, this is an example of a nice way of Elite Four formation, if you want my opinion. :P I didn't really think about how it connected Karen and Will to the Elite Four much. Although I do like how it brought, Blue and Silver, and Karen and Will together, I was upset that Pryce had to use such underhanded means to do so. His character seemed to change from the game to the manga. I wouldn't have been so upset if they used an original character, like Emerald and Yellow are. Pryce was still a cool guy, but had done something too terrible for me to really accept.

If had to describe the situation with Yellow, I would use the exactly same verb; "bugs me." Interesting to note that I believe the same things about Yellow! :O I believe that she could be Red's "lost" sister, considering that they share so many similarities that it would take years to make a list. On a side note, they are far from canonically shipped in the manga either. They are mostly like Blue and Silver. I would say that if there is one shipping I would like, that would be Red with Blue, judging from their actions in later chapters. The couple-like similarities they share are just so apparent, so clear, that I am sure that anyone who has read some of the FireRed and LeafGreen Chapter can't think differently. :P On a side note, they both at from the game, and are put together in a lot of fan-made media. I quite agree on your views on Red and Yellow, that they should be siblings. Manga wise, I can see RedxBlue, but I'm a bit more of a RedxMisty fan. ^^; I haven't read FR/LG yet, so I'm not going to give an opinion about it yet. The bolded is worded awkwardly and I'm not quite sure what you meant. Sorry. ^^;

Blue's appearance was perfect in my opinion. It COMPLETELY reflected her being absent from the Generation I games, considering that her goal and role was different. It was like the writers predicted Silver and the remakes of Generation I games! Also, judging from Volume 23, which I've read, her appearance in FireRed and LeafGreen Saga, is so perfect, that I can't even believe how the manga writers developed her character so much! As for Crystal, well, she also bears one great role. Appearing later reflected that she wasn't exactly a character that primarily appeared in the Games. Also, the role she held, completing the Pokedex, fully adapted the games' features for capturing Pokemon, a thing that wasn't able to be accomplished by Gold himself, since he was supposed to follow the main plot events. Her appearance later, along with Gold and Silver was also well-made. ;)
I agree that I loved Blue's appearance and her character in the manga. I don't have any arguments against her. What I'm mainly getting at is Crystal. Since Crystal was my second game ever, Silver being my first, I grew a deep attachment to her character, especially since she was the first playable girl character I knew. I think her role could have still been fulfilled as Gold's younger sister. I was also upset with how little she interacted with Silver. Blue is given multiple scenes with Green while Crystal barely knows who Silver is. She was his rival as well. She deserved more than just calling him a punk and barely any interaction later on.


Budges summoning Lugia was a Deus Ex Machina to give a nice plot twist with Team Rocket. Summoning Lugia with the Badges wasn't a known fact, so not really everyone could have done so. Gym Leaders being "evil" is also one of the best aspects in the RGB Saga of Pokemon Special, in my opinion. They were not completely unbased. Giovanni, himself the boss of Team Rocket, but still a Gym Leader is an explanation that can be given. Furthermore, take Blaine; his background past is completely unknown, but his involvement in the creation of Mewtwo is clear as day. Take his appearance, being a Scientist, for example. And as we all know, that Team Rocket's relationship to the events in the Pokemon Mansion are not really minor. So, you could say that even in the Games, Blaine could be supposed to be related to Team Rocket. Lt. Surge might not exactly be the apparent Team Rocket member, but his badass personality, along with his actions and speech could have him be one. Same goes to the mysterious Sabrina. As for the reason they were giving out their badges, well, they weren't supposed to be known as Team Rocket members. ;)I really don't understand how the badges would summon Lugia though. I can understand the Rainbow and Silver Feathers, but the disk made no sense. It was put together and then BOOM! Lugia was there. There was nothing on it, that I could tell, that would attract a legendary. Also, the other region leaders gave out badges. Why was it only the Kanto badges that could summon Lugia/a legendary?

Thank you for replying and giving your insights on events.

Ash_Pokemaster
September 8th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Ash_Pokemaster, you had a huge post so I wanted to give it its own reply.
I understand what you are saying about them, but why did they have to be portrayed as "evil"? Not, "I wanna kill everyone because I can," evil, but doing what is wrong for a "good" cause, in their perspective. Why were they not portrayed way the Hoen Elite four were? If I remember correctly, they were previous champions of the Indigo League or something like that.


I would suppose that the Artists wanted to picture them like that for one reason or another... I guess they do not directly role of the Elite Four in the games, but heck, they still are THE Elite Four! :P

I, grudgingly, realize what you mean about the "Smell ya later," line(>< It's so cute though!), but he wasn't a horrible person in the game. He was annoying and actually quite friendly. He was Red's friend/rival who was up for a little friendly competition. He was nice enough to tell you to thank Bill for the Pokemon storage system. He was a kid, not a cruel Pokemon killer.
Actually, neither was he in Special. He still looks like a spoiled brat, only thinking about himself. He's still ONE HELL of annoying, and well, he and Red and up being probably one of the best Rival characters there are! I would love to see Smell Ya Later to though. :P

I quite agree on your views on Red and Yellow, that they should be siblings. Manga wise, I can see RedxBlue, but I'm a bit more of a RedxMisty fan. ^^; I haven't read FR/LG yet, so I'm not going to give an opinion about it yet. The bolded is worded awkwardly and I'm not quite sure what you meant. Sorry. ^^;
I meant that they have appeared in several fan-made material, and that the shipping is one of the most popular ones, game-wise. ;)

Blue is given multiple scenes with Green while Crystal barely knows who Silver is. She was his rival as well. She deserved more than just calling him a punk and barely any interaction later on.

What would have been cool would be if Gold's mother and Crys' mother were friends, coming from one of Crystal's features, which included Gold's mother having visitors. I guess that this is possible after all, just not pictured in the manga! Either way, I wouldn't like them being siblings, but I also think that Crys should have more of a role. To the best of my knowledge, she does appear in Emerald Saga, which I have not read. Not to mention that the possible G/S Remakes might bring the three characters together!

I really don't understand how the badges would summon Lugia though. I can understand the Rainbow and Silver Feathers, but the disk made no sense. It was put together and then BOOM! Lugia was there. There was nothing on it, that I could tell, that would attract a legendary. Also, the other region leaders gave out badges. Why was it only the Kanto badges that could summon Lugia/a legendary?

Yes, indeed it does not make too much of sence. Lugia's appearence in media even before Gold and Silver's releases were possibly the reason they decided to include Lugia in the Yellow Saga. Interesting to note however, that Lugia's appearence new Kanto was a nice let's say... Deus Ex Machina, explaining Lugia's going here and there, since it is actually a Pokemon that has appeared in Sevii, Johto, Orre and now, Cerise Island, apparently near Kanto. Kanto badges being special remains a question, I guess. :P