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Allstories
August 29th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Goddamnit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25970882/

What a transparent grab at Hillary's fans.

Klippy
August 29th, 2008, 09:14 AM
While it's obvious that she can take some of the voters that Hillary had, I'd imagine he'd pick her for other reasons and the assumption that she was only picked to steal Hillary's voters is absurd. o_o;

John McCain isn't a pathetic, takes-all-votes kinda guy. She's well-qualified and a strong governor. He wouldn't pick her just for votes, seeing as if that's all she was good for and she had no other notable features or abilities, she'd be demolished by Biden in debates and interviews. So the odds that she strictly for votes is stupid and a poor Liberal's attempt at defaming John McCain.

Aurafire
August 29th, 2008, 09:34 AM
While transparent, it's not a stupid move. Why would he not jump at the chance of taking some of those clinton supporters away from Obama? It doesn't matter if it's obvious or not....it's politics. He can't be faulted for choosing a strategically beneficial running mate...

I personally think it's a great choice for him. Palin is a fresh face in a world of politics scattered with the generic "Old, white guy". Her conservative views will hopefully re-energize the republican base, but we'll see how it goes.

Btw, I'm a McCain supporter if you didn't already notice ^.^

Kitty-Kat
August 29th, 2008, 12:59 PM
What a transparent grab at Hillary's fans.

That's what I thought, too. XD
But I'm sure he wouldn't choose her just for the votes. I'm sure she's got a lot of skills that she's shown in her, admittedly short, term.

Keitaro
August 29th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Just to let everybody know before becoming governor, Sarah Palin political experience consisted of terms as Wasilla's mayor and councilwoman and a stint as head of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

The real purpose in selecting her is to gain access to the Alaskan oil fields that will run through my country of Canada. Just another step towards NAFTA that will create a North American Union causing Canadian, American & Mexican sovereignty to go down the drain.

Like I said and will continue to say, people need to really wake up and realize both Obama/McCain are the same. They among so many corrupt government individuals like Biden, Clinton and even Bush are all part of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) an organization who has been devoted to achieving a one world government & a new world order.

If you don't listen to me it is ok, I'm just a guy who has been following these events unfolding for over a year ever since I thought about joining the military. But at least listen to Ron Paul a man who has speaking truth to everyone for 30 years > here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOhk0JeoZtE).

Mariah Carey
August 29th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Ew....who'd want to run with Mccain.......

Aurafire
August 29th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Ew....who'd want to run with Mccain.......

What an intelligent comment -_-

At least say why you don't like him...

Midnight Beat
August 29th, 2008, 04:13 PM
What a transparent grab at Hillary's fans.
....

Everyone knows that he's after Clinton's supporters, but the fact is Sarah Palin is a good, solid, choice. She balances out McCain to fill in the gaps that he has. For example, like others have said, she has a very nice background in gas conservation, and God knows that's anything but a disadvantage. Not to mention the her economic benefits. The fact is whether or not you support McCain or not, Palin is an excellent choice regardless of gender.

TRIFORCE89
August 29th, 2008, 04:44 PM
I liked the maverick McCain a lot. I've been following him for years. But he had to drop all of that to appeal to the Republican base. I'm hoping that, should he get elected, during his acceptance speech he'll basically go, "Sorry guys. I'm going to do this my way. Politics is politics. Had to get elected."

That out of the way, I heard this this morning and was just...totally confused. I didn't want Romney, which is who most people thought he would choose, but this came out of nowhere.

There's nothing wrong with picking a woman. All for it. But surely there was someone more known? Someone with more experience? Someone better somewhere in the Republican party?

I don't think she was chosen to get Hilary's backers (even if she mentioned Hilary and women many times during her speech). For the most part, a good chunk of them have said they won't support Obama and vote McCain instead - which to me makes no sense whatsoever. But, not my problem I live in Canada. XD This *may* secure the Hilary backers who would've initially just not voted at all. I think she was chosen (and announced it today) to steal Obama's thunder.

Last night was Obama's night. Today the news should've been all about what Obama said (or didn't say). But it's not. It's all about McCain and Palin.

Here's how I look at it. McCain is old. If he dies, God forbid, during his presidency, then the VP steps in. McCain has experience. Palin does not.

A governor for just two years. Before that she was on the city council and acted as mayor of Wasilla - which has a population just under 7,000. How can he choose her and say Obama doesn't have experience? And, nothing against Alaska - it's a beautiful place. But... when Obama is claiming that McCain does not understand the everyday American, his response is to chose someone for VP from a state that's separated from the rest of the country by another country.

She does secure the Evangelical vote though.

Keitaro
August 29th, 2008, 04:57 PM
But, not my problem I live in Canada. XD

Actually a good portion of American issues are or will eventually be our problem. As asleep as I say Americans are, you can pretty much double that for how many of my fellow Canadians are asleep on so many things going on in the world today.

SpartanPatriot
August 29th, 2008, 04:59 PM
It does not matter in my opinion. I still think Barack is going to win. I went to one of his speaches and it was one of the best experiences of my life. It was amazing. McCain is older and stuck in the past. :P

TRIFORCE89
August 29th, 2008, 05:08 PM
Actually a good portion of American issues are or will eventually be our problem. As asleep as I say Americans are, you can pretty much double that for how many of my fellow Canadians are asleep on so many things going on in the world today.
Canadians are plenty oblivious. The States affects us big time. But, I meant that I wasn't too concerned if people are voting based on gender or race - because it's not happening here...yet. Opportunity hasn't arisen.

Allstories
August 29th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Apparently McCain barely even knows this woman that he is making his VP:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12988_Page2.html

But at least listen to Ron Paul a man who has speaking truth to everyone for 30 years > here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOhk0JeoZtE).

Just because a candidate is honest does not make him any less completely insane. Ron Paul wants to get us out of Iraq, which is cool, but he also wants a bunch of stuff that would maybe have worked a hundred or more years ago but would be insane in a modern-day country with a global economy.

C'mon man. I mean, I know libertarianism sounds nice and all on paper, but it's a total joke. It's something that would require a utopian society in order to function, just as does communism. There are some things that we just need a government there to regulate. Obviously not EVERYTHING, but there needs to be SOME balance there.

Red1530
August 29th, 2008, 05:28 PM
I was a bit surprised by Senator McCain's choice but it makes sense. It reinforces his image of a maverick because Sarah Palin fought corruption in her own party and was hated in her own party for it until the corrupt parties were convicted.

wakachamo
August 29th, 2008, 06:11 PM
^I don't think I've ever seen any post with so much truth and win than this one.

Aurafire
August 29th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Apparently McCain barely even knows this woman that he is making his VP:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12988_Page2.html


And Obama knows Biden?

Face it, VP selections are all about getting votes. They each chose someone who they thought would benefit them in the general election. Biden to counteract Obama's inexperience, Palin to counteract McCain's "oldness" and relatively centrist views. This election will be so much different than any others in the past. Never before has America been so screwed up both socially and politically, and both parties are desperate.

To tell you the truth, I'm not very happy with either candidate...McCain is barely a Republican, but I just can't go the other way. I do love politics quite a bit, but I get really frustrated. It seems like politicians care more about themselves/getting votes than they do about the actual people...

Chibi-chan
August 29th, 2008, 06:18 PM
I'm surprised that he'd do such a blatantly obvious political move.
I mean COME ON. FREAKIN ALASKA.
If you could pick any other state that's out of the political scene, it's Alaska.
He's doing it just because "HEY, IT'S HILLARY IN REPUBLICAN FORM!"
:|
He would have been 100x better if he had chose Colin Powell.



GO OBAMA

Beatrice
August 29th, 2008, 06:29 PM
It's funny that a bunch of prepubescent, immature children are posting in this thread with things like, "lol omg obama rulz, mccain sucxzorosss" and that ridiculous jargon. While I realize I, myself, am only sixteen, I'm not blind to the hypocrisy and pathetic crap of our political system in America.

I'll admit that each candidate could have their ups and downs, but for any non-voter to enter this thread and think anything about the political system or the candidates OR who they want to win is ridiculous. You can't vote, kiddies, so keep your mouths shut.

Your political opinion isn't to be spread about this topic like anyone will care what you think. You're a kid and you really don't matter that much.


And if you reply to this with, "omg but ur posting", I'd like to point out that my opinion on Obama has not been posted, nor my opinion on McCain. I imagine this race will be disastrous for America no matter who is elected. Our country is doomed because of our freedom and no matter which candidate is chosen, the American citizens will complain and complain.

Well, excuse me, but kids are the future. At least they have an opinion, compared to many adults in America today who don't even know who the hell's running. Now you and I both know that everyone here isn't 18+. You're not even 18. Should I care what you think? Your opinion can be the same as everyone else...or maybe less because you don't seem to think our country or our citizens are capable of thinking like you obviously are. Go check out India or Sudan. See how you like the USA then.


If McCain chooses to keep the Iraq War going, he'll be slandered. And if Obama chooses to pull our troops out and America suffers a terrorist attack again, they'll point their chubby fingers at him and say we never should have left Iraq. It's life. It's politics. No one is going to say, "Wow, I've loved everything Obama/McCain has done for our country." That's ridiculous for anyone to think. American citizens always have something to complain about and it will never end because we're a bunch of hypocrites and morons.


America's not a demi-god for goodness sakes. No one's going to like everyone, that's why these things called 'political parties' have been created. One side will always dislike the other for some reason, whether it be abortion or gay rights. And once again, No. Country. Is. Perfect. We have idiots and morons just like every other country.


It really makes me glad I've got a house in Mexico. >_>; Not to say I support Mexican government, because I hardly know their politics, but if America begins going to Hell, I've got my sanctuary merely two hours from me and I'll find myself safe from the downward spiral America is heading for.
Mexico? As I mentioned before, check out the Sudan, India, Kenya, Bangladesh, China, Chile, Argentina, Columbia. Maybe you can trade places with someone from there. See how their rection would be in getting a chance to live in America.

YOU WIN: -1 REP

Klippy
August 29th, 2008, 07:00 PM
I went ahead and deleted my post, since I sounded like a total ass and a hypocrite. :x Not sure what I was thinking when I posted, but I obviously wasn't thinking too hard. XD

I'll just go ahead and say sorry to those that found it offense, since...it really was a stupid thing to post. :x

Aurafire
August 29th, 2008, 07:35 PM
I went ahead and deleted my post, since I sounded like a total ass and a hypocrite. :x Not sure what I was thinking when I posted, but I obviously wasn't thinking too hard. XD

I'll just go ahead and say sorry to those that found it offense, since...it really was a stupid thing to post. :x

I think we all get a little too fired up over politics and we say stuff we don't mean...

Don't worry about it =P

Megera
August 29th, 2008, 08:47 PM
It does not matter in my opinion. I still think Barack is going to win. I went to one of his speaches and it was one of the best experiences of my life. It was amazing. McCain is older and stuck in the past. :P

Just because someone can rile up a crowd doesn't mean they'll make a good leader. I love Nine Inch Nails, but I wouldn't want Trent Reznor running for president.

Also, stop being a sheep. Yes, McCain is old. However, there are no instances I can think of where it shows that age is affecting him mentally. He's actually better than young and new Obama at Q&A sessions.

For the record, I hate them both, but Obama slightly more because of his huge following of rabid fans that make him seem even more arrogant than he is. Political hero worship makes no sense.

Netto Azure
August 29th, 2008, 09:33 PM
I'm Apologizing in advance for not writing a coherent view on this nomination...it's 10:30 PM here in Wilmington, I'm sleepy...and this is the only time I'll be able to reply for the next couple of days...I can't argue straight right now and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with my ideals
PLEASE Read... Yes I agree all of us here can get fiery about Politics...I do have this somewhat naive ideal that "everybody is good at heart." The fact that we are debating Current Events in a Pokemon Forum is a good thing.
I know you guys view on things is for the good of the people...Whether you're Left, Center, or Right...For Big Government or Less Government...we all want the better good of our fellow kind...That is how a democracy works (But this is not a true democracy as you guys know)
One of the reasons I have very "Leftist' (or whatever you want to call it) is that I was part of the Harbor-UCLA Summer Urban Fellowship Program for half of my summer vacation. You should have seen my essay for 8th Grade two years ago for US History where I proposed to form a "World Government" as one of the things I would do as US Prez...So naive of me :P I could go on about my views of the world but what does a 16 year old know? I support the centrist Obama...yes...CENTRIST

Anyways this nomination was an obvious grab for Clinton supporters...yet blunts his message of "Experience" as we'll see...this nomination worries me since my Mom will probably vote McCain after seeing this nomination for VP...I hope not...

Also yes both of the nominees are corporate sell-outs...But don't be naive to think that you could win a National Election in the Most "Powerful" country in the World without doing what they are doing... That's why Honest Politicians working for the greater good are very small in number. (Also why I abhor becoming a Politician, I can't bear the hypocrisy of it.)

So in conclusion...we should do our best to vote for the lesser evil...

I'm so sorry if I hurt anybodies feelings. Politics alongside religion is a hard subject to discuss without stepping on anyone...But it has to be done in order to make our lives better and everyone else in the worlds.

Aurafire
August 29th, 2008, 09:40 PM
PLEASE Read... Yes I agree all of us here can get fiery about Politics...I do have this somewhat naive ideal that "everybody is good at heart." The fact that we are debating Current Events in a Pokemon Forum is a good thing.
I know you guys view on things is for the good of the people...Whether you're Left, Center, or Right...For Big Government or Less Government...we all want the better good of our fellow kind...That is how a democracy works (But this is not a true democracy as you guys know)
One of the reasons I have very "Leftist' (or whatever you want to call it) is that I was part of the Harbor-UCLA Summer Urban Fellowship Program for half of my summer vacation. You should have seen my essay for 8th Grade two years ago for US History where I proposed to form a "World Government" as one of the things I would do as US Prez...So naive of me :P I could go on about my views of the world but what does a 16 year old know? I support the centrist Obama...yes...CENTRIST

Anyways this nomination was an obvious grab for Clinton supporters...yet blunts his message of "Experience" as we'll see...this nomination worries me since my Mom will probably vote McCain after seeing this nomination for VP...I hope not...

Also yes both of the nominees are corporate sell-outs...But don't be naive to think that you could win a National Election in the Most "Powerful" country in the World without doing what they are doing... That's why Honest Politicians working for the greater good are very small in number. (Also why I abhor becoming a Politician, I can't bear the hypocrisy of it.)

So in conclusion...we should do our best to vote for the lesser evil...

I'm so sorry if I hurt anybodies feelings. Politics alongside religion is a hard subject to discuss without stepping on anyone...But it has to be done in order to make our lives better and everyone else in the worlds.

I'd love for you to fill me in on how Obama is centrist in any way...He is as left as left can be.

Megera
August 29th, 2008, 09:52 PM
I'd love for you to fill me in on how Obama is centrist in any way...He is as left as left can be.

I'm trying to remember any 15-year-olds who understood politics. Even *I* still don't understand it all.

Went
August 30th, 2008, 12:10 AM
I'd love for you to fill me in on how Obama is centrist in any way...He is as left as left can be.

...heh, I'd love to see your description of a "left" politician. Does Obama promise free sanity, education and security for all? Does Obama promise a rise in the workers' salaries? Does Obama promise a better distribution of the wealth? No. Obama is not "as left as someone can be". It's just that, since McCain is darn "right", Obama, being centrist, goes to his left.

And, in the other hand, I cannot see how being "left" can be bad for a politician. I simply cannot understand it. I hope Obama wins, after all.

popsicles.
August 30th, 2008, 01:52 AM
I also hope Obama wins. No - I'm not an American citizen, thus it's none of my business -
but I do really hope Obama wins. Every body does actually in Europe, because, well, how do I say this .. Bush messed up pretty badly. Yeah.
I'm just scared that if Obama wins, racists will probably attempt to kill him because of his skin-colour. :<

And McCain's running mate? Sheez. It's just another pathetic attempt to steal away Hillary's votes. :/
I'm wondering if the Republicans would appreciate it when something happens to McCain the next president would be a woman with four of five children to also take care of.

Lucy Lu
August 30th, 2008, 10:28 AM
She looks like she is right for the job. I really don't know why he ended up picking her. There are a lot more in the US. She is from Alaska?! Man, that is far. She must have some poilcies that she can address to McCain and others in the party. I enjoyed the DNC now up to the RNC.

Maybe it will cure of my indifference. Because right now I don't know who I am going to vote for.

Abrogate Nadir
August 30th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Its pandering. I don't care for a lot of the woman's positions either.

Keitaro
August 30th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Just because a candidate is honest does not make him any less completely insane. Ron Paul wants to get us out of Iraq, which is cool, but he also wants a bunch of stuff that would maybe have worked a hundred or more years ago but would be insane in a modern-day country with a global economy.

Ok so let me get this straight. Ron Paul is insane because he wants to get rid of the FED & go back to the Gold Standard to try and save the American dollar? Or is it because he...
-Never voted to raise taxes.
-Never voted for an unbalanced budget.
-Never voted for a Federal Restriction on Gun ownership.
-Never taken a government paid junket.
-Never voted to increase the power of executive branch.
-He voted against the Patriot Act
-He voted against regulating the internet.
-He voted against the Iraq War.

...and McCain & Obama are sane because...
-They want to keep fighting wars America can't afford because Americans owe 9 Trillion Dollars to China (funny how the so called top tier candidates avoid this issue like the plague)
-They will issue a draft. (don’t mean to scare anybody but it will happen eventually)
-They will implement a big brother society utilizing things such as cameras & RFD micro-chips to protect Americans from the so called "terrorists" & the boogeyman...)
-I already talked about the North American union in one of my previous posts on this topic.
-They will continue to diminish the American constitution just like Bush has done. You Americans are already in light fascism without even knowing it.

I can go on, but I lost interest in preaching this for the billionth time. If that makes Ron Paul insane well so be it, I'm insane too, meh.

C'mon man. I mean, I know libertarianism sounds nice and all on paper, but it's a total joke. It's something that would require a utopian society in order to function, just as does communism. There are some things that we just need a government there to regulate. Obviously not EVERYTHING, but there needs to be SOME balance there.

If you actually knew what he stood for you'd realize he is a constitutionalist and wouldn’t eliminate government he would just make it so that government is there to protect you god given individual rights and freedom rather than invade your privacy, go to wars that shouldn’t have happened, pretty much what you want apparently in that particular paragraph.

I'm not saying vote Ron Paul, what I’m saying is listen to the guy at least, especially when it comes to economics since the guy has predicated dead on so much of what we face in the world today economic wise. And realize Obama/McCain voting for isn’t the MTV awards this is very, very serious learn what they represent from all aspects before casting your vote (that includes the libertarians I'm talking everyone) and know canidates and especially the media lies & insults your intelligence 24/7 when they get the change. If you still feel that is your candidate I can respect that. Just personally I’d look at EVERYONE running for president from Ralph Nader to Bob Barr to Barney the dinosaur, before being committed to anything, lol.

Allstories
August 30th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Ron Paul is insane because he wants to get rid of the FED & go back to the Gold Standard to try and save the American dollar?
Pretty much, yeah. We don't have enough gold to back our currency. There's no way we could buy all that gold to back the American dollar without crippling our economy and people's lives in the process. Also, Ron Paul thinks America should take back the Panama Canal, and that we should privatize everything, and he referred to black people as 'fleet-footed'. He votes 'no' on pretty much anything and doesn't seem to think America should do anything ever, even if there's genocide going on in Sudan or something, he just rants about it being none of our business. He's a fine candidate if you're paranoid that the government is out to get you but other than that he's pretty much a lunatic.

Aurafire
August 30th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Ok so let me get this straight. Ron Paul is insane because he wants to get rid of the FED & go back to the Gold Standard to try and save the American dollar? Or is it because he...
-Never voted to raise taxes.
-Never voted for an unbalanced budget.
-Never voted for a Federal Restriction on Gun ownership.
-Never taken a government paid junket.
-Never voted to increase the power of executive branch.
-He voted against the Patriot Act
-He voted against regulating the internet.
-He voted against the Iraq War.

...and McCain & Obama are sane because...
-They want to keep fighting wars America can't afford because Americans owe 9 Trillion Dollars to China (funny how the so called top tier candidates avoid this issue like the plague)
-They will issue a draft. (don’t mean to scare anybody but it will happen eventually)
-They will implement a big brother society utilizing things such as cameras & RFD micro-chips to protect Americans from the so called "terrorists" & the boogeyman...)
-I already talked about the North American union in one of my previous posts on this topic.
-They will continue to diminish the American constitution just like Bush has done. You Americans are already in light fascism without even knowing it.

I can go on, but I lost interest in preaching this for the billionth time. If that makes Ron Paul insane well so be it, I'm insane too, meh.


Lol we've gotten so off topic. This is supposed to be out McCain's running mate, not a guns-a-blazing, "I'm right you're wrong" battle of political ideals.

Keitaro, I'd be fine with you posting your opinion on the actual election in a non hostile way, but don't talk down to Americans like we're somehow worse than you. Some of our country might be a bit disillusioned or misguided, but don't go acting all high and mighty on your Canadian throne of righteousness like you have all the answers. Thank your lucky stars America is right to the south of you, or you'd be living in quite a different place. So stop "preaching" about how we are too dumb to realize that there are problems in our country that need solving and we're too busy converting our government to fascism to notice.

Now, that being said, what do you guys think of John McCain and his VP Choice?

Megera
August 30th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Now, that being said, what do you guys think of John McCain and his VP Choice?

She looks like a naughty librarian.

Seriously, she's hot, especially for a politician. =3

I don't support her views on abortion and same-sex marriage, but I really couldn't care less on those issues. If you don't want a kid, don't have sex. If you are gay, oh well, better luck next time.

I really don't know much about her, yet, but of course we'll find out more over the next few months. We really have to view her as more of a potential president than Biden (augh, I hate him so much), since McCain could drop dead at any moment.

Allstories
August 31st, 2008, 05:24 AM
Not trying to argue for or against her here as I can't vouch for its authenticity, but I just wanna say, this is pretty interesting/weird (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223).

icomeanon6
August 31st, 2008, 12:05 PM
Frankly, I think that Palin could be like a double-edged sword. One of the main arguments against Obama is that he's terribly inexperienced, and that argument could be undermined by choosing a VP who hasn't been around for very long. However, I would much rather have her leading the country than Obama. Here's why: executive experience. Obama is a junior senator, and has had no experience in an executive position. Between McCain and Palin, the GOP ticket has two very important aspects: foreign policy experience and executive experience. Biden may have experience in foreign policy, but McCain has that and more with Palin. Obama himself only has a knack for speech giving.

As for attracting Hilary supporters, I don't think she'll attract too many of them because of her stance on abortion. Last time I checked, there weren't many pro-life Clinton supproters.

Yamikarasu
August 31st, 2008, 12:27 PM
icomeanon6, you know who else has had executive experience? The manager at your local McDonalds. :P

Seriously, Senators are much more concerned with national and international affairs then a Governer. Remember she's only been a Governer for 20 months and before that she was a Mayor of a town of less than 6000 (That's less than the number of people here at PC). Sure, Obama doesn't have as much experience as other candidates either, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Basically what McCain did was abandon his experience argument to try to go for the pissed off Clinton supporters, assuming that they would vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman, because there would be no other reason to vote for Palin seeing as how she is as opposite of Clinton as you could possibly get. Maybe he was just trying to get his supporters more excited about his campaign, which I guess he did, but it won't do much in the end considering that most of the Clinton supporters that he needs to win will now side with Obama, or some other candidate.

But it doesn't really matter I guess anyway, there is no way in hell McCain is going to get elected. I'd rather move to Canada, and its cold in Canada.

Randall Raichu
August 31st, 2008, 01:14 PM
"Senator Obama has no experience, Now for my running mate, Someone with less experience!"

icomeanon6
August 31st, 2008, 02:36 PM
"Senator Obama has no experience, Now for my running mate, Someone with less experience!"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

In the short time she's been governor, Palin has already proven that she can tackle corruption, which is a skill that we need right now. Obama, on the other hand, hasn't done anything of significance except run for president.

icomeanon6, you know who else has had executive experience? The manager at your local McDonalds. :P
Anyone who has taken a year of civics knows that the job of a governor is more similar to the job of the president than the job of a senator is. Senators don't lead, they just state opinions. You shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that senators are more qualified for the job just because of the level of government at which they operate. Palin is a leader, Obama is just a good public speaker.

Yamikarasu
August 31st, 2008, 02:59 PM
In the short time she's been governor, Palin has already proven that she can tackle corruption, which is a skill that we need right now. Obama, on the other hand, hasn't done anything of significance except run for president.

Um... sources? I know she's under investigation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQx42Tsz5NQ) for abuse of power, but I haven't heard anything about tackling corruption, just the opposite.

And you ignored the rest of my previous post...

You do know that McCain is a republican right? You know, that same party that elected and supported GWB twice? Just making sure.

icomeanon6
August 31st, 2008, 03:47 PM
Um... sources? I know she's under investigation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQx42Tsz5NQ) for abuse of power, but I haven't heard anything about tackling corruption, just the opposite.

And you ignored the rest of my previous post...

You do know that McCain is a republican right? You know, that same party that elected and supported GWB twice? Just making sure.
Yes, I am perfectly aware that McCain is a republican. I happen to generally support the republican party, as do over 55 million other Americans. As for the corruption issue with Palin, she welcomed that investigation. You know why? It's because she's confident that she'll be found innocent. She doesn't hide anything, and she wants more members of her party to act likewise, as is stated in this excerpt from a recent USA Today article:

During her first year in office, Palin distanced herself from the old guard, powerful Republicans in the state GOP, even calling on tightlipped, veteran U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens to explain to Alaskans why he was being investigated by federal authorities.
You haven't heard anything about her tackling corruption because you're not looking. I first thought that Obama would be a great alternative to Clinton and maybe even the Bush administration, but I did some research and realized how horribly unqualified he is.

Aurafire
August 31st, 2008, 04:00 PM
Being a senator and being a governor are two incredibly different things. A senator is someone who is part of a larger whole, who does not make decisions by themself, but rather contributes to a decision with their opinion in the form of a vote. A governor is in a position of leadership, someone who actually runs things and makes direct decisions. Think of America as a larger alaska: Palin had had experience in an executive role, while Obama has not. Regardless of who has more experience than whom, Palin has been in that position of leadership.

And if you ARE voting on just plain ol' experience, compare MCCAIN to Obama, the actual people running for president. Really ask yourself, who would you feel more comfortable with in the white house: A first term senator with little experience, or A senior senator with years and years of experience with foreign policy and domestic issues?

Megera
August 31st, 2008, 04:10 PM
You do know that McCain is a republican right? You know, that same party that elected and supported GWB twice? Just making sure.

Don't judge someone by their party, judge them like an individual. If possible, I would like to see political parties eliminated, since everyone within each party has such different values.

Keitaro
August 31st, 2008, 04:57 PM
Pretty much, yeah. We don't have enough gold to back our currency. There's no way we could buy all that gold to back the American dollar without crippling our economy and people's lives in the process. Also, Ron Paul thinks America should take back the Panama Canal, and that we should privatize everything, and he referred to black people as 'fleet-footed'. He votes 'no' on pretty much anything and doesn't seem to think America should do anything ever, even if there's genocide going on in Sudan or something, he just rants about it being none of our business. He's a fine candidate if you're paranoid that the government is out to get you but other than that he's pretty much a lunatic.

Actually he didn't write that article about anti-black (I don't agree with it; whether he confirmed it or not) but when you think about it how come no one cares about when people vote for Obama because he's black or Hilary because she is a woman rather than their issues, isn't that just as bad?

Whether or not you agree with his postion on the economic issue at least he is paying attention to the 9 Trillion Dollars debt to China and understands more spending and more wars means greater debt for the people.

Lol we've gotten so off topic. This is supposed to be out McCain's running mate, not a guns-a-blazing, "I'm right you're wrong" battle of political ideals.

Keitaro, I'd be fine with you posting your opinion on the actual election in a non hostile way, but don't talk down to Americans like we're somehow worse than you. Some of our country might be a bit disillusioned or misguided, but don't go acting all high and mighty on your Canadian throne of righteousness like you have all the answers. Thank your lucky stars America is right to the south of you, or you'd be living in quite a different place. So stop "preaching" about how we are too dumb to realize that there are problems in our country that need solving and we're too busy converting our government to fascism to notice.

Now, that being said, what do you guys think of John McCain and his VP Choice?
I already posted my opinion on my first post of this topic. And I don't know why you accuse me of being high and mighty when the fact I know my government is corrupt. Heck I already said Canadians are more asleep than Americans on most issues.

Forgive me if I know what Obama/McCain represent, no one ever talks about their issues like Obama with FISA or McCain wanting 100 years of war, only how they're doing in the polls. If you have a better solution to trying to make people aware I'd love to hear it. I don't think anyone is dumb, I just think people are uninformed is all and because my views are outside the box the perception I'm trying to get across seems aggresive due to the fact you do not hear them often, I'm obviously the minority here that is fine but I don't mean offense to anyone just wish their issues were talked about more.

Yamikarasu
August 31st, 2008, 05:01 PM
That part about McCain being a Republican was more of a joke. Maybe I should of added a "lol" or ":P" to make it more clear.

Please, politicians always welcome investigations, weather they are guilty or not. It is simply a political move to make herself seem less guilty.

Think of America as a larger alaska.

Alaska is not like a smaller America. Alaska is not the most powerful state in the US. 2/3 of all people in the US do not hate Alaska. Alaska is not at war with some vague group of people that is killing millions of innocent people and is extremely unpopular with anyone not named George W. Bush.

Aurafire
August 31st, 2008, 05:11 PM
I already posted my opinion on my first post of this topic. And I don't know why you accuse me of being high and mighty when the fact I know my government is corrupt. Heck I already said Canadians are more asleep than Americans on most issues.

Forgive me if I know what Obama/McCain represent, no one ever talks about their issues like Obama with FISA or McCain wanting 100 years of war, only how they're doing in the polls. If you have a better solution to trying to make people aware I'd love to hear it. I don't think anyone is dumb, I just think people are uninformed is all and because my views are outside the box the perception I'm trying to get across seems aggresive due to the fact you do not hear them often, I'm obviously the minority here that is fine but I don't mean offense to anyone just wish their issues were talked about more.


Fair enough, and that's perfectly reasonable. Everyone knows politics is corrupt and the politicians say whatever people want to say to get votes. I'm also not very happy about the choices we have for president. And yes, people are uninformed, and I foresee n o easy solution to correct that...

Apologies for being hostile. Please don't take it personally, I just get really emotional about politics =P




Alaska is not like a smaller America. Alaska is not the most powerful state in the US. 2/3 of all people in the US do not hate Alaska. Alaska is not at war with some vague group of people that is killing millions of innocent people and is extremely unpopular with anyone not named George W. Bush.

I wasn't comparing the two in terms of actual political circumstances, just the idea of alaska being a larger nation, like America. Alaska is just a state, obviously. I was referring to the fact that Alaska has a position of leadership (governor), while the senate does not. If you had read closer you would have seen that...

GymLeaderMisty
August 31st, 2008, 06:19 PM
Being a senator and being a governor are two incredibly different things. A senator is someone who is part of a larger whole, who does not make decisions by themself, but rather contributes to a decision with their opinion in the form of a vote. A governor is in a position of leadership, someone who actually runs things and makes direct decisions. Think of America as a larger alaska: Palin had had experience in an executive role, while Obama has not. Regardless of who has more experience than whom, Palin has been in that position of leadership.

And if you ARE voting on just plain ol' experience, compare MCCAIN to Obama, the actual people running for president. Really ask yourself, who would you feel more comfortable with in the white house: A first term senator with little experience, or A senior senator with years and years of experience with foreign policy and domestic issues?

I prefer someone who will not be influenced by the Heritage Foundation, the Club for Growth, and Grover Norquist.

Yamikarasu
August 31st, 2008, 07:01 PM
I wasn't comparing the two in terms of actual political circumstances, just the idea of alaska being a larger nation, like America. Alaska is just a state, obviously. I was referring to the fact that Alaska has a position of leadership (governor), while the senate does not. If you had read closer you would have seen that...

I was mainly using that argument to counter what icomeanon6 said that the Governor is more qualified than a Senator. Again, I guess I need to be more clear. XP

Here is something directed toward you:


And if you ARE voting on just plain ol' experience, compare MCCAIN to Obama, the actual people running for president. Really ask yourself, who would you feel more comfortable with in the white house: A first term senator with little experience, or A senior senator with years and years of experience with foreign policy and domestic issues?

Who do you feel more comfortable with in the white house, someone who has agreed with Bush 90% of the time, or someone who opposed the war from the beginning who is also, by the way, not a homophobic evangelical nut? I don't see McCain as someone with a lot of experience, rather just someone who has been really wrong for a really long time.

icomeanon6
August 31st, 2008, 07:21 PM
Who do you feel more comfortable with in the white house, someone who has agreed with Bush 90% of the time, or someone who opposed the war from the beginning who is also, by the way, not a homophobic evangelical nut?
This is a political debate, not an ideological debate. There's no need to insult John McCain's religion. You don't see me saying that I dislike Obama because he's pro-choice, you only see me saying that I oppose him because he's not qualified for the position. If you wish to discuss morals, I suggest you make a new thread for it.

Aurafire
August 31st, 2008, 07:31 PM
Here is something directed toward you:



Who do you feel more comfortable with in the white house, someone who has agreed with Bush 90% of the time, or someone who opposed the war from the beginning who is also, by the way, not a homophobic evangelical nut? I don't see McCain as someone with a lot of experience, rather just someone who has been really wrong for a really long time.

Just to point out again, we've gotten very off topic.

I hope my eyes didn't fail me when you just called John McCain a homophobic evangelical nut. Not to be mean or anything, but either you're extremely misguided or just not thinking about what you are saying.

Homophobic: John McCain wants to leave the topic of gay marriage to the states and has most certainly never made a anti-gay remark to the public. Ever. Feel free to prove me wrong on that. Too bad you won't.

Evangelical: If you think John McCain is a religious nut, you really are quite uninformed. Many politicians base their policies on their moral beliefs, and his beliefs reflect his opinions on such issues as gay-marriage or abortion. This doesn't mean he is a "nut"

At least criticize the man in coherent and logical ways. Sorry, but no one is going to take you seriously if you attack him like that without backing up your points. And I will not stand by while people think he'll be just "4 more years of Bush". Look up his policies and you'll find that he takes a centrist stance on many issues. Don't just flat out call him wrong if you don't even know how he voted on stuff. He's been in the senate quite a long time, and I doubt he could be wrong on everything. (again, that "wrongness" is your opinion)

And I guess it's your personal opinion if you feel comfortable with a junior senator with barely any experience in the white house who will magically *poof* the U.S. out of debt and foreign conflict, lower the poverty line and generally just cure America from all of its ills. I happen to feel more comfortable with a man who at least has a few years of political experience and knows a little about how washington works. Seriously dude, don't just blindly follow when people tell you that "Bush and all republicans hate you and want to see you suffer" (AKA don't believe everything you hear on the news)

Sorry for being so off topic. Man, how about that Sarah Palin?

Yamikarasu
August 31st, 2008, 07:59 PM
I was referring to Palin as the person who is the homophobic evangelical nut. Maybe I shouldn't have said evangelical, but she is definitely one of those stareotypical Christian-Republicans. And I didn't mean evangelical nut to be read together, more like: homophobic, evangelical, nut. Dang it, I'm really sorry, this is the third time I've been misunderstood.

So basically this is what I was trying to say:



McCain is just another Bush.
Palin is a homophobic, evangelical, nut. Not that I have a problem with her religion, I have a problem whenever religion touches politics, and when religion influences an otherwise respectable opinion. If there is some non-religious reason gays should not be married, please inform me.
What you call John McCain's experience I call "being really wrong for a really long time" (It rolls off the toungue nicely.)

You might say: "Well John McCain is the person running for president, not Palin" And what I would say is that McCain will reach his life expectency during his presidency and that Palin has a very good chance of becoming president. And like I said before, Governing Alaska can not be compared to governing the United States of America.

But icomeanon6, politics is ideological, and a political debate boils down to a debate over people's morals no matter what form of politics you are debating about. So what is the point of debating, when neither of us will sway the other to beilieve their morals anyway?

Aurafire
August 31st, 2008, 08:19 PM
I was referring to Palin as the person who is the homophobic evangelical nut. Maybe I shouldn't have said evangelical, but she is definitely one of those stareotypical Christian-Republicans. And I didn't mean evangelical nut to be read together, more like: homophobic, evangelical, nut. Dang it, I'm really sorry, this is the third time I've been misunderstood.

So basically this is what I was trying to say:



McCain is just another Bush.
Palin is a homophobic, evangelical, nut. Not that I have a problem with her religion, I have a problem whenever religion touches politics, and when religion influences an otherwise respectable opinion. If there is some non-religious reason gays should not be married, please inform me.
What you call John McCain's experience I call "being really wrong for a really long time" (It rolls off the toungue nicely.)

You might say: "Well John McCain is the person running for president, not Palin" And what I would say is that McCain will reach his life expectency during his presidency and that Palin has a very good chance of becoming president. And like I said before, Governing Alaska can not be compared to governing the United States of America.

But icomeanon6, politics is ideological, and a political debate boils down to a debate over people's morals no matter what form of politics you are debating about. So what is the point of debating, when neither of us will sway the other to beilieve their morals anyway?

Oh well aren't you just the generic haughty liberal. Mmmm yess it does rrrroll off the tougue nicely....how very elitist of you.

Well anyway, sorry for misunderstanding your post. But everything I said about McCain's beliefs can also be said about Palin. She is not a homophobic evangelical nut for all the same reasons that McCain isn't for all the reasons I already stated.

And I already addressed your flat out wrong views about how McCain is another Bush. Again, I ask you to READ JOHN MCCAIN'S POLICIES. Then come back and tell me that he is a mirror image of Bush.

And asking people to not involve religion in their politics is asking them not to have political ideals. So basically you're saying if you're very religious, you can't be a politician? Tough dude, religion plays a part in politics every single day, and it always will. In case you haven't noticed, a large majority of the country is Christian/Catholic. Separating religion and politics is just not possible.

Governing Alaska is way more similar to being president than being a member of the senate. First of all, She is in an executive postion (Obama isn't). Second, she makes decisions that directly affect her state (Obama doesn't). Third, it gives her experience in a leadership role. (Obama doesn't have that). Don't tell me that all three of those things don't directly effect her ability to lead the country. (Yes, I KNOW Alaska is not America. I'm just saying she at least knows what it's like to lead.)

icomeanon6
August 31st, 2008, 08:23 PM
But icomeanon6, politics is ideological, and a political debate boils down to a debate over people's morals no matter what form of politics you are debating about. So what is the point of debating, when neither of us will sway the other to beilieve their morals anyway?
You're right, there's no point in discussing morals. So stop dragging your personal ideals into the discussion and pose a decent argument that won't offend people.
BTW, there's little difference between "evangelical nut" and "evangelical, nut" since in both cases you imply that "evangelical" is a reason why McCain and Palin shouldn't be elected.

Chibi-chan
September 1st, 2008, 02:12 PM
So, anyone heard yet that Palin's 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant? ^o^

Megera
September 1st, 2008, 02:16 PM
Conservatives as a whole might be disappointed in her parenting skills, but that's still better than Obama or Biden to them.

And liberals as a whole shouldn't care/minds won't change about her.

icomeanon6
September 1st, 2008, 06:30 PM
Speaking as a conservative, I don't consider the pregnancy issue to be of any real consequence. In fact, I admired how open and honest she was about the issue. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that liberals won't care, though. They might use it as a mudslinging opportunity.

Megera
September 1st, 2008, 07:21 PM
It's liberal policies that promote contraceptives, pro-choice, and other secular values that basically say to the world that, no, you don't need to be married before sex. I am totally for those values, and I only said that liberals SHOULDN'T care about it. Doesn't mean they can't be hypocrites about it though.

Like you said though, it is very admirable that she doesn't hide anything. Even IF she's dumb/inexperienced/whatever terms people are throwing around, at least she's honest and consistent.

Chibi-chan
September 2nd, 2008, 05:30 PM
Speaking as a conservative, I don't consider the pregnancy issue to be of any real consequence. In fact, I admired how open and honest she was about the issue. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that liberals won't care, though. They might use it as a mudslinging opportunity.

Open and honest? The girl was five months pregnant. Also, Palin's been an activist for abstinance. If she can't keep track of her kid, how can she keep track of a nation?

Aurafire
September 2nd, 2008, 05:41 PM
Open and honest? The girl was five months pregnant. Also, Palin's been an activist for abstinance. If she can't keep track of her kid, how can she keep track of a nation?

Umm....yeah that's totally fair.

Comparing her ability to lead the country with her ability to parent her children? How many kids do you think listen to their parents tell them not to have sex and do it anyway? Teenagers are teenagers. Just because she happens to be the daughter of a VP candidate, the media is unfairly attacking her and trying to paint Sarah Palin as inept and a bad parent.

Really...leave the poor kid alone. She's going through enough right now without cameras breathing down her neck. Let's keep this about the politicians and their views, not their families. I think it should, in NO way, be used to hurt Sarah Palin. But that's our media!

Randall Raichu
September 2nd, 2008, 07:32 PM
The only good things that come from Alaska is Oil and Hockey players and since we aren't using the oil, might as well move the hockey players to Saskatoon and sell Alaska. We need money anyway.

revelp8
September 2nd, 2008, 07:54 PM
Umm....yeah that's totally fair.

Comparing her ability to lead the country with her ability to parent her children? How many kids do you think listen to their parents tell them not to have sex and do it anyway? Teenagers are teenagers. Just because she happens to be the daughter of a VP candidate, the media is unfairly attacking her and trying to paint Sarah Palin as inept and a bad parent.

Really...leave the poor kid alone. She's going through enough right now without cameras breathing down her neck. Let's keep this about the politicians and their views, not their families. I think it should, in NO way, be used to hurt Sarah Palin. But that's our media!

Politicians lives always get blasted by the media, regardless =T one poor cry to leave her alone ain't gonna do much. and i hear you, its totally not fair to get blasted by the media like that, but towards people that are going to be voting for her, its crucial.

A person having a stance like abstinence and then their teenager is preggers is totally contradictory. how can she back herself up now?

that's the way i see it

Megera
September 2nd, 2008, 08:30 PM
Wow, her teenager has HORMONES and has SEX. Holy damn she's just like a NORMAL TEENAGER. DAMN YOU SARAH PALIN FOR YOUR NORMAL KID.

By the way, Palin is pro-contraceptives.

Kota
September 3rd, 2008, 08:45 PM
I was referring to Palin as the person who is the homophobic evangelical nut. Maybe I shouldn't have said evangelical, but she is definitely one of those stareotypical Christian-Republicans. And I didn't mean evangelical nut to be read together, more like: homophobic, evangelical, nut. Dang it, I'm really sorry, this is the third time I've been misunderstood.

So basically this is what I was trying to say:



McCain is just another Bush.
Palin is a homophobic, evangelical, nut. Not that I have a problem with her religion, I have a problem whenever religion touches politics, and when religion influences an otherwise respectable opinion. If there is some non-religious reason gays should not be married, please inform me.
What you call John McCain's experience I call "being really wrong for a really long time" (It rolls off the toungue nicely.)

You might say: "Well John McCain is the person running for president, not Palin" And what I would say is that McCain will reach his life expectency during his presidency and that Palin has a very good chance of becoming president. And like I said before, Governing Alaska can not be compared to governing the United States of America.

But icomeanon6, politics is ideological, and a political debate boils down to a debate over people's morals no matter what form of politics you are debating about. So what is the point of debating, when neither of us will sway the other to beilieve their morals anyway?


Firstly, What you call John McCain's experience I call "being really wrong for a really long time" (It rolls off the toungue nicely.)

I'd say he spent the same amount of time being inprisioned while he went and fought for people to be gay. They may not agree with it; but he fought for thier right to do as they wish in their own sanctum. Why do they have to get married to be inlove with eachother? It shouldn't matter. The fact that you point that out against all of the Republicans is only an attempt at deafening your lack of facts.

While McCain focuses on the things he's ALREADY done, Obama preaches about how he WILL do what he says. "He's the One!" He's obviously pandering to young minds who aren't capable of understanding that experience goes along way when you're in charge of maintaining The United States of America.


Look at me.

Regardless of "who the better person is." We're united in the fact that we all go down together based on this ultimate decision. Obama or McCain? Arguing is completey the opposite of being "united" then you have bad blood once someone wins. Honestly, I truly believe Obama is a kind-hearted person. But, he won't make a good president. He lacks expereience. And hey, if he runs in another four years after getting some "experience" then I'll vote for him. Otherwise, I'd rather see him out of the Oval Office.


Now, onto Palin. I believe she's one of the smartest republicans I've seen in a looong time. I listened to her speech tonight and she addressed all the right reasons to vote for her Campaign Partner. Not only that she just seems like an all around good hearted person. She's been frightful of the Republican Party ever since she started addressing problems they were ignoring.

Insult her, disrespect her, do whatever. But, you'll see soon enough she's a good VP choice.