The new formes of Platinum- A competetive discussion

[El Gofre]

Hi all.

As you will all know by now, the arrival of Platinum has brought with it new forms for three pokemon- Rotom, Giratina and Arceus. The object of this thread is to make note of all the new changes between the forms and just to get discussion going on what you think of them and how they will affect the competetive metagame of DPP.
Source of all information: Serebii.net

Rotom
Not everything has been revealed about rotom's 5 new formes, but all will share the same new stat line, which is as follows:
HP:50/Att:65/Def:107/SpAtt:105/SpDef:107/Spd:86
Typing is also not yet confirmed on whther or not it will change.
Changes include an increase in every stat except speed (A reduction of 5) and HP (Which follows the trend of all alternative forms retaining the same base HP).
No changes to movepools or alternative movepools have been uploaded yet, although each form is expected to have its own pool with suitably fitting moves:
Frost Forme: Blizzard
"Oven" Forme: Overheat
"Mower" Forme: Leaf Stom
"Fan" Forme: Air Slash
These are the ones that have been confirmed. Serebii's scan of the "Washer" Forme has thus far been impossible to translate.

Notable changes that will impact rotom's standing in the metagame:
-Stats: Rotom has recieved a substantial boost to most of its stats. While the extent of the attack increase's use is not yet known (It is safe to predict that a possesed lawnmower will be using some physical evil), all other boosts seem like they will be extremely benficial. Both of its defences has made a large jump to what could possibly be described as "Above average", which could aid in its role as screen support and make WoW an even better choice on it. The boost in SpAtt could make rotom a more signigicant special-sweeping threat, with a +15 SpAtt boost to a -5 Speed trade-off.
-Movepool: While the full extent is still not known, it is easy to presume that the moves gained through the various formes will mean a certainly more varied movepool, and a far more potent offensive one. Up until this point rotom has had STAB'd shadow balls as it's most threatening move- Of the moves we know, it will be gaining base 140s amongst other things. The coverage it can offer will also increase, since up until this point the more agressive specs varriant has been reliant of Hidden Power to make up for lack of it.

Shaymin
Shaymin's Sky Forme has the following stat changes:
HP:100/Att:103/Def:75/SpAtt:120/SpDef:75/Spd:127
This new build is clearly more aggressive, with an increase in offensive stats and decrease in the defensive ones (With HP again remaining stationary).
The new movepool is also more agressive, with Growth taking defence curl's spot as a lvl 1 move and other more powerful moves like air slash and leaf storm being implemented.
It has also lost the ability of natural cure, to be replaced with serene grace.

Notable changes that will impact Shaymin's standing in the metagame:
-Typing: The introduction of flying type has brought mixed blessings to shaymin. The loss of bug weakness has been replaced with a rock one, it has gained a quad resist to grass and a quad weak to ice, and has developed a ground immunity in exchange for its electric resistance. This certainly shuffles what could once be classed as a counter, and has also brought about a weakness to the ever-popular stealth rock
-Stats: As above, the changes to shaymins baseline have helped in some ways but hindered in others. Obiously shaymin can now act as a more offensive threat, but the extent of changes to its movepool are not yet known and therefore its increase in potency cannot be fully judged. Defensively, the sky forme has certainly suffered. A drop in stats, combined with new problems such as a quad weak and loss of Nature Cure mean that shaymin's sky forme will have trouble being the supporting option that the land form can be.
Ability: Another mixed blessing. The double chance of a move's secondary ability will pay off in instances, for example the current movepool will certainly make use of seed flares with an 80% chance of dropping a foe's SpDef, meaning even special walls will be conquerable. However the loss of natural cure will mean that sky forme will not be able to stat absorb like its predecessor

Giratina
As with all other forms, the full extent of the change between the two formes is not yet known due to unreleased movepools. However the following changes have been found:
HP:150/Att:120/Def:100/SpAtt:120/SpDef:100/Spd:90
Compared to the other new formes' stats, Giratina has not been subject to drastic ones. A +20 in both offenses and -20 in both defences still leave the stats moderately similar, but will no doubt cause a drastic change in roles.
Ability has also changed, from pressure to levitate.

Notable changes that will impact Giratina's standing on the metagame:
Stats: While still distinctively "average" when placed in context to the rest of the uber tier, the Origin Forme will still undergo a lot of changes. The more offensive build could lead to more tank-like roles being created (Moveset permitting) rather than walling, or give possibilities as a choice sweeper
Ability: The ability is a mixed blessing on Giratina. The loss of Pressure-stalling is replaced by an immunity to ground type moves, most notably earthquake. Both offer different opportunities however, and levitate could still become more appealing with the arrival of Origin Forme's full movepool

As far as I am aware, those are all the changes that have been made. Now you may discuss =]

[sims796]

@#$%@$^&$#!!!#%%@@!@#@#4 SERENE GRACE!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!1!

80 PER-FREAKIN'-CENT -2 SP.DEF DROP!!!11

60% FLINCH RATE AIR SLASH

GROWTH!!!!!!!!

And it can learn SOLAR BEAM!!!!!!


These were great changes to that creepy looking thing.

[El Gofre]

@#$%@$^&$#!!!#%%@@!@#@#4 SERENE GRACE!!1111!!!!!!!111!!!!1!

80 PER-FREAKIN'-CENT -2 SP.DEF DROP!!!11

60% FLINCH RATE AIR SLASH

GROWTH!!!!!!!!

And it can learn SOLAR BEAM!!!!!!


These were great changes to that creepy looking thing.

Woah, I completetly overlooked air slash's flnche rate. I'll edit that in later =]

Where did you find out it can learn growth?

[Horizon]

The updated Pokédex page on Serebi says it can.

[El Gofre]

Ohh, I missed that serebii had put up the sky forme's movepool.

[sims796]

Finally, somebody else posts. I wanted to post that I don't feel Shaymin losing Natural Cure is such a bad thing. Seed Flare has an 80% chance of lowering sp.def. BY 2 STAGES. Nobody is safe. There is no safe switch ins. ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!!

Well, that's a lie. Meta & Tenta are good, but both are stopped by HP Ground.

Besides, Natural Cure is great for defensive Shaymin. Offensive really lieks Serene Grace.

& Lawn Mower has Leaf Storm, not Blizzard. You noob.




Now, on to the most important news ever in D/P....

Vileplume gets no additional moves, but that freakin bastard Bellosom, who is great, but not as good, gets LEAF BLADE?! What the #$%@! Seriously, it already has Leaf Storm!


And why the hell did they give Lava Plume to Flareon? I freakin hate Game Freak.

[Horizon]

Why not put together a Sky Forme set, sims?

Then patent it so you go down in legend.

[sims796]

Shaymin@Life Orb
Nature:Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Growth/Substitute/solar Beam
EV: 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP


You may be wondering, why Solar Beam? Well, my answer to that is, why not?

Substitute protects it against Weavile & the like.

[El Gofre]

Shaymin@Life Orb
Nature:Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Growth/Substitute/solar Beam
EV: 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe, 6 HP


You may be wondering, why Solar Beam? Well, my answer to that is, why not?

Substitute protects it against Weavile & the like.

Walled by floaty steels, but i suppose that's the curse of shaymin :P

[Moi.]

Ahh shaymin is now cool. once i get platinum im soft touching for a good IVd timid one,

YAY. this is going to bring a whole new high to pokemon.

[sims796]

Seed Flare handles them. Or you could just use HP Fire & call it a week.

Also, I forgot to mention, Secret Power has a 60% chance to paralyze.

[Horizon]

Anybody willing to have a pop at Origin Forme Giratina?

[Skip Shot]

I'm willing to take a risk on Rotom's Frost Form. Assuming it has same movepool as before w/ Blizzard,

Rotom @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Modest/Timid Nature
252 SPA/ 120 Def/ 132 Spe/ 6 HP

Blizzard
Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt/Discharge
Shadow Ball

Of course, this would go an a Hail team of some sort.

Origin Forme Giratina?

Giratina @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf/ CHoice Specs
Naive Nature
252 Spe/ 252 spa/ 6 HP

Draco Meteor
Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball
Earth Power

Giratina's increased offensive stats open up an oppurtunity for sweeping.

[.]

I feel Giratina's new forme is going to be overall less effective =/ It just doesn't hit that hard in ubers, and before, those +20 defenses helped it a lot. 120 and 100 are noticably different.

[The Hero Without a Name]

Is Sky Shaymin gonna outclass Toggy now? TT

[.]

No way. Togekiss is so damn bulky, plus it learns Nasty Plot.

[Angelic Diablo]

Well considering Sky Shaymin doesn't need the para support to cause flinch-hax it frees up a moveslot for the epic seed flare, which in essence is a reverse Nasty Plot (that is lowering the Sp Def - 2 of the opponent)

[sims796]

And it has Growth, souping up his powerful Solar Beam attack. Or Seed Flare. Whatever.

[The Hero Without a Name]

And it has Growth, souping up his powerful Solar Beam attack. Or Seed Flare. Whatever.
Thank god it doesn't stat-up as fast as Nasty Plot

I guess a good Sky Shaymin moveset would be...
Shaymin @ Life Orb
Timid
4 HP/252 SPATK/252 SPD (or however many needed if you only want to outspeed Base 125's, I guess)
Growth
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Fire
Growth to boost her Special Attack, Seed Flare and Air Slash for STAB, and HP Fire to rape the steels that resist them.

[ABYAY]

Okay, how's this for the new Shaymin form? (I'm going to use most of sims' information and upgrade it some.)

Shaymin (Sky Form)@ Leftovers/Life Orb
Timid
252sp.atk/236spd/20HP

Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground/HP Fire (your choice of dealing with Heatran/Metagross or Skarm/Zong easier)
Substitute/Leaf Storm (secondary grass move if Seed Flare runs out of PP)/Quick Attack (more on this in a minute)/Growth

"Skymin" is going to be a huge OU threat should it stay there. The last move is really a toss up. Substitute on a switch and get a moment to think. Respond accordingly when your Substitute breaks or use it to protect from Pursuit. Leaf Storm is an optional grass move to give immense power, but that sp.atk drop really hurts unless you're either suiciding or needing a little more kick to your next attack. Quick Attack may seem like a joke, but note that 103 base attack to at least cause a little bit of hurt. It's useful in downing a Sashed Weavile. Growth can be used on an anticipated switch to give your attacks even more power.

EVs give Skymin 384 speed, still enough to outrun Weavile and base 125s. HP hits 346, which has no real mark, but every hit point counts. Should you use Quick Attack, you can stuff those minor HP EVs into attack.

[sims796]

That set is fail. Where the frick is Solar Beam?

But don't forget it's subpar defenses, & being quad weak to Ice, Weavile raepz. Substitute is an option.

[shedinjask]

Solarbeam? Are you serious? Even in sun, Seed Flare is better because of 80% drop rate.

Skymin @ Choice Specs
252 SAttk/252 Spd/4 HP -- Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Psychic/Leech Seed

Psychic for CROBAT YES. Alternatively, you could Leech Seed a predicted Muk or Registeel or Regice switch in, I hear they're great counters.

A few more things to add: Skymin does not get Roost which sucks since giving it to defensive Shaymin would rock. Origiratina is confirmed to get Mud-Slap, Spite (ANOTHER FORME PRESSURE STALL YESS), and Outrage. The washing machine Rotom is real and gains Hydro Pump.

[sims796]

No. It was a joke. I mean, seriously, wtf.

Seed Flare just about opens up a near 2HKO on those things if they switch into it. Assuming an 80% Sp.Def drop. Besides, your still walled by flying steels, and it ain't like she benifits from Leech Seed while using Specs.

Incidentaly, she now takes Sceptile's placeas the fastest Subseeder around. She even has more HP.

[Postman]

I don't think you need Psychic just for Crobat, I'm pretty sure Air Slash will scare it away.

I don't think Giratina gets Outrage, do you mean Draco Meteor?

[sims796]

There's been rumors of it getting Outrage. We'll just wait & see.

[MegaDitto]

Shaymin @ Petyta Berry
Timid Nature
252 Sp Atk/ 252 Spd/ 6 HP

-Seed Flare
-Substitute
-Hidden Power Ice
-Air Slash

If you want to go different

Mixed Sweeper

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Naive Nature
170 Sp Atk/ 252 Spd/ 82 Atk/ 6 HP

-Seed Flare
-Return
-Hidden Power Ice
-Air Slash

Or a Sunny Day set..

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd/ 6 HP

-Solar Beam
-Sunny Day
-Hidden Power Fire
-Synthesis

..............

[Postman]

I still need to see all the new moves some Pokemon got.
I wanna try Bullet Punch Scizor.

[the bitter end.]

of course the lawn mower is evil, why wouldn't it be? Any who, Shaymin Sky can't be sereiously injured by Flying types, that's a start.

[ABYAY]

Can't be injured by flying types? Wait........what? It's weak to flying! Aerodactyl still outspeeds it and KOs it most likely, although 100/75/75 defenses surpass Starmie's 65/85/85. However, 4x weak to Ice is a problem. Ice Shard from Weavile can quickly lay on the KO with CB, although Skymin has that Quick Attack to get the jump on weakened Weavile.

The more offensive Giratina...I really don't think it's going to be too useful without a Scarf. It's too slow, but Ghost + Dragon in Ubers = wonder offensive typing. Shadow Ball + Dragon Pulse or Shadow Claw + Dragon Claw destroy most Ubers, even the likes of Shedinja. Its defenses are still adequate enough to tank, but not wall.

The new Rotom forms, I don't know. I'll wait for more information.

Two things that make me facepalm: Neither Flareon or Entei got Flare Blitz. They got Lava Plume and Eruption, respectively. Seriously, one of them needed a good Fire STAB, but Game Freak didn't grant this...I wanna gun them down now. Also, with the expected Outrage tutor, Dragonite is 95% outclassed by Salamence or heck, even Kingdra! (Dragonite still has a more varied special movepool and Focus Punch, although that special movepool isn't useful.) Dragonite better get a saving grace of some sort this coming generation or else it's going straight to BL and remaining there for eternity.

[Aquilae]

Skymin @ Life Orb / Leftovers ** Can't touch this
Timid, 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 HP

Leech Seed
Substitute
Air Slash
Seed Flare

Skymin is clearly Uber judging by the information released. 127 Spe coupled with 120 SpA obviously grants it a one-way ticket to Ubers, as it has a great STAB move in Seed Flare, with Serene Grace its abilities are doubled.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

The Rotoms will all be stuck in UU for bad speed, except the oven forme becuase it can't be walled by bulky waters and is therefore in BL.

Shaymin will break OU in five seconds flat and be thrown into Ubers to get raped at sonic speed.

Giratina will just flat out suck.

[sims796]

This is fun, all these pre-tested speculations.

Dark, do you mean LawnMower isn't walled by bulkywaters? He's the only one with a supreme grass type, that raeps all competition, because grass types are the strongest ones evar.

But yeah, grass beats bulky waters.

Can't Mew help out Shaymin if she gets thrown into uber?

[Tortured_Soul]

I think people are dismissing Giratina. The origin form is no longer a wall, but a tank. It still has 150/100/100 defenses, which are almost as good as Cresselia, while boasting a 120 Base SpA stat and a far better movepool. It could do some damage in Ubers.

Sky Shaymin is so totally Uber. Seriously, did Gamefreak mess up or what? 80% chance of -2 SpD. Jesus, nothing is safe anymore! Not to mention Air Slash is boosted and it's incredible speed. Also it doesn't have the worst defenses with 100/75/75, and a new fighting resist.

Nasty Plot Darkrai and (supposedly) Outraging Salamence could bring new life into the metagames also. This looks interesting, and why I was against moving Garchomp until these new changes were seen. The whole metagame is going to get a reshuffle IMO.

btw, playing it now, and the graphics rock. CHIMCHAR IS THE SEX I TELL YOU. PICK CHIMCHAR, THE LITTLE MONKEY IS TOOOOO GOOD!

~T_S

[Chaostorm]

i think Giratina Origin Form is faster than its old form in Diamond&Pearl. isnt it?

[Tortured_Soul]

5 more base speed. It's not much, especially for Ubers.

[sims796]

I disagree totally. Dusknoir looks fruity, damned new graphics.

I pray to God that these Outraging tutors are just rumors. The game would literally be broken, then. Seriously, dragons would rule the metagame with no problem.

[Chaostorm]

even if they made the origin form of giratina. still dialga is The Most Powerful Dragon Pokemon

[AluminumKnight]

Hmmm. Donphan got Seed Bomb (btw, wtf is that? How does Donphan get Seed Bomb???) so maybe CB Donphans will be used more with their Ice Shards now that they can threaten bulky water switch-ins?

[Horizon]

5 more base speed. It's not much, especially for Ubers.

I was aware that it still had base 90? Serebii says this too.

[sims796]

The same way Pachurisu got Seed Bomb.

You know, I'm good with this thread for a while. I'm just pissed at how some pokes got updates, yet others that needed it got forsaken. I mean what the frack? What the hell does Bellosom need Leafblade for? Why didn't Vileplume get himself a useful offensive move? What the *$#@% were the thinking when they gave Lava Plume to Flareon? I freakin' hate GameFreak now.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Of course a Grass type beats a bulky water, the fire one gets Thunderbolt from form switching.

Seed Bomb Donphan???

Was there anything good that Typhlosion got?

[sims796]

When I say bulky water, the first thing I think of is Swampert, who walls the fire one hard.

[Dark Azelf]

I disagree totally. Dusknoir looks fruity, damned new graphics.

I pray to God that these Outraging tutors are just rumors. The game would literally be broken, then. Seriously, dragons would rule the metagame with no problem.


http://www.serebii.net/platinum/movetutors.shtml

Originally Posted by Fat Murkrow
I looked through the file and found these. I'm probably missing quite a few (I looked manually), but here are some new tutored moves and the Pokemon that learn those moves. I was kind of inconsistent in including Pokemon that already learn the move in Emerald, but oh well.

If it's not on here, it doesn't mean it doesn't learn the move! Sorry for any mistakes; if it sounds too good to believe, check the file to confirm.

Ominous Wind - Moltres, Suicune, Salamence, Yanmega, Ninetales, Togekiss, Altaria, Vespiquen

Twister - Zapdos, Crobat, Staryu

Air Cutter - Articuno, Zapdos, Drifblim, Altaria, Honchkrow, Yanmega, Vespiquen, Xatu, Mantine, Pelipper, Butterfree, Beautifly, Ledian, Togetic, Masquerain, Mothim

Signal Beam - Articuno, Cresselia, Regice, Magnezone, Glaceon, Espeon, Jolteon, Vaporeon, Hypno, Electrode, Manectric, Togekiss, Electivire, Starmie, Slowking, Alakazam, Slowbro, Froslass, Raichu, Jynx, Empoleon, Luxray, Bronzong, Claydol, Mr. Mime, Blastoise, Wormadam

Magnet Rise - Luxray

Earth Power - Regigigas, Whiscash, Quagsire, Swampert, Garchomp, Gastrodon, Torkoal, Torterra

Iron Head - Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Kingdra, Probopass, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Bronzong, Miltank, Gyarados

Icy Wind - Drifblim, Mismagius, Octillery, Shellos, Lanturn, Piloswine

Outrage - Salamence, Flygon, Nidoking, Kingdra, Snorlax, Gyarados, Lapras, Rhydon, Tauros, Marowak, Venusaur

Superpower - Dragonite, Flareon, Rampardos, Absol, Blaziken, Tyranitar, Snorlax, Mamoswine, Hippowdon, Luxray, Ursaring, Pinsir, Armaldo, Honchkrow, Donphan, Golem

Seed Bomb - Donphan, Cradily, Shiftry, Snorlax, Ambipom, Vileplume, Victreebel, Carnivine, Jumpluff

Heat Wave - Zapdos, Togekiss, Crobat

Dive - Politoed, Lanturn, Quagsire, Cloyster, Totodile

Trick - Porygon-Z, Drifblim

Zen Headbutt - Bronzong, Claydol, Lapras, Blastoise, Exeggutor, Solrock, Clefable, Medicham, Gallade

Gunk Shot - Toxicroak, Slaking, Snorlax, Ambipom, Donphan, Infernape

ThunderPunch - Rampardos, Lucario, Toxicroak, Flygon, Probopass

Fire Punch - Rampardos, Probopass

Ice Punch - Lucario, Toxicroak, Floatzel, Probopass, Froslass

Sucker Punch - Shiftry, Froslass, Golem, Skuntank

Aqua Tail - Lapras, Walrein, Drapion, Seviper, Gligar, Quagsire, Salamence, Swampert, Slowbro, Slowking, Armaldo, Rhyperior, Golduck, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Floatzel

Vacuum Wave - Poliwrath

Knock Off - Toxicroak, Ambipom, Empoleon, Kricketune, Seviper


Iron Defense - Armaldo

Ancientpower - Bronzor, Probopass, Marshtomp, Lunatone, Regigigas

Mud-Slap - Kricketot

Snore - Burmy

Synthesis - Cherrim

Swift - Chingling, Chatot, Luxray

Some omissions brought to attention by Everstone, bolt., hinode, Phiddlesticks, Jiggy37: thanks!


Yes, some of the new pokemon which learn the tutor moves.







Thought this may clear up some mess


Level Up Move Additions:
008 Wartortle: Lv 40 Iron Defense
009 Blastoise: Lv 46 Iron Defense
010 Caterpie: Lv 15 Bug Bite
013 Weedle: Lv 15 Bug Bite
052 Meowth: Lv 54 Feint
053 Persian: Lv 68 Feint
055 Golduck: Lv -- Aqua Jet
071 Victreebel: Lv 47 Leaf Blade
083 Farfetch'd: Lv 43 Feint
095 Onix: Lv 38 Curse
123 Scyther: Lv -- Vacuum Wave
123 Scyther: Lv 61 Feint
134 Vaporeon: Lv 78 Muddy Water
135 Jolteon: Lv 78 Discharge
136 Flareon: Lv 78 Lava Plume
141 Kabutops: Lv -- Feint
158 Totodile: Lv 22 Flail
159 Croconaw: Lv 24 Flail
160 Feraligatr: Lv 24 Flail
163 Hoothoot: Lv 13 Uproar
164 Noctowl: Lv 13 Uproar
182 Belossom: Lv -- Leaf Blade
186 Politoed: Lv 48 Hyper Voice
196 Espeon: Lv 78 Power Swap
197 Umbreon: Lv 78 Guard Swap
199 Slowking: Lv -- Power Gem
200 Misdreavus: Lv 50 Power Gem
204 Pineco: Lv 9 Bug Bite
205 Forrtress: Lv --, 9 Bug Bite
208 Steelix: Lv 38 Curse
212 Scizor: Lv -- Bullet Punch
212 Scizor: Lv 61 Feint
213 Shuckle: Lv 40 Bug Bite
227 Skarmory: Lv 20 Feint
236 Tyrouge: Lv -- Foresight
243 Raikou: Lv 71 Rain Dance >_>
244 Entei: Lv 85 Eruption
245 Suicune: Lv 85 Blizzard <_<
265 Wurmple: Lv 15 Bug Bite
270 Lotad: Lv 25 Bubblebeam
271 Lombre: Lv 25 Bubblebeam
299 Nosepass: Lv 49 Power Gem
300 Skitty: Lv 4 Foresight
319 Sharpedo: Lv -- Feint
352 Kecleon: Lv 14 Feint
359 Absol: Lv -- Feint
377 Regirock: Lv -- Stomp
378 Regice: Lv -- Stomp
379 Registeel: Lv -- Stomp
399 Bidoof: Lv 45 Curse
400 Bibarel: Lv 53 Curse
401 Kricketot: Lv 16 Bug Bite
402 Kricketune: Lv 26 Slash
402 Kricketune: Lv 38 Taunt
402 Kricketune: Lv 42 Night Slash
412 Burmy: Lv 15 Bug Bite
413 Wormadam (All Forms): Lv 15 Bug Bite
414 Mothim: Lv 15 Bug Bite
415 Combee: Lv 13 Bug Bite
434 Stunky: Lv 18 Feint
435 Skuntank: Lv 18 Feint
451 Skorupi: Lv 34 Bug Bite
452 Drapion: Lv 34 Bug Bite
469 Yanmega: Lv 38 Feint
470 Leafeon: Lv 78 Swords Dance
471 Glaceon: Lv 78 Barrier
476 Probopass: Lv 49 Power Gem
480 Uxie: Lv 21 Swift
481 Mesprit: Lv 21 Swift
482 Azelf: Lv 21 Swift
486 Regigias: Lv -- Dizzy Punch
486 Reigigas: Lv -- Foresight
486 Regigias: Lv 25 Revenge
491 Darkrai: Lv -- Ominous Wind
491 Darkrai: Lv 29 Faint Attack
491 Darkrai: Lv 75 Nasty Plot
492 Shaymin (Both Formes): Lv -- Growth
492 Shaymin (Both Formes): Lv 82 Sweet Kiss
492 Shaymin (Land Forme): Lv 91 Healing Wish
492 Shaymin (Sky Forme): Lv 28 Quick Attack
492 Shaymin (Sky Forme): Lv 64 Air Slash
492 Shaymin (Sky Forme): Lv 91 Leaf Storm

Along with this.



Already posted this in raters guild, but i might aswell post it here too.


EDIT : Sims, Plume got seed bomb ^_^ lol

[sims796]

Absolutely unacceptable. Sure, Tauros & Venasaur (wtf) & possibly Gyarados could use it, but Salamence makes Dragonite useless.

I'm sorry, I'm just too happy. Plume gets Seed Bomb! Sure, it's no Leaf Blade, but it doesn't make sense if he got it. Now he & Bella could use Swords Dance without totally sucking! To hell with Mence, these two are uber matierial!!!

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Wow, Donphan got Seed Bomb but half of the Grass types didn't?

OHSNAP, MY KYOGRE CAN'T LEARN SURF

OH LOOKY! INFERNAPE GOT ANOTHER RANDOM MOVE!!!

And Typhlosion wasn't even mentioned once on here. That's destroyed whatever interest I had in the game now.

(In the Borderline house)
Hello Dragonite! Coming to stay for eternity are you...
*Dragonite cries, I would too*

[sims796]

Well, Nite does have acess to the Pawnches...

This list isn't finalized. If we are lucky, Nite could get akiller new move that decimates the compettition...like Seed Bomb...

[DarkTyphlosion157]

And Salamence gets Leaf Blade.

I really hope Typhlosion gets Outrage. After all, they give it to the Pokemon who can lose their temper easy, and Typhlosion stuff about it losing its cool all around the Johto Pokedexes.

[Dark Azelf]

Well, Nite does have acess to the Pawnches...

This list isn't finalized. If we are lucky, Nite could get akiller new move that decimates the compettition...like Seed Bomb...

Yeah its not complete i bolded and underlined that part =p.

So i could well be that one heck of alot more pokemon get these moves.


Ice Punch Lucario and Heat Wave Zapdos seem nifty, hmmm.

Im also kinda glad forry got a stab bug move, stab steel is ass =/.

[AluminumKnight]

Some thoughts:

Signal Beam on Manectric is cool, adding Dark/Psychic coverage for him :)

Luxray got some love, gaining Superpower (gg Clefable) and Magnet Rise (WTF?!). Now all we're missing is Volt Tackle... :)

Salamence got a LOT of love, gaining Outrage (gg Dragonite, now banished to the realm of gimmick sets) and Aqua Tail (somewhat useful)

I already mentioned Donphan getting Seed Bomb. I'm looking forward to using CB Donphan when Garchomp comes back (which he will with all of these tutor moves messing things up).

Kingdra with Outrage is cool :)

zomg Zapdos and Crobat get Heat Wave. Specs Zapdos just got 10x better.

Lucario gets TPunch and IPunch... SD Lucario even more dangerous now?

A lot of Aqua Tail around... Garchomp, Rhyperior, Armaldo, Ttar, etc.

Some pokes gaining Knock Off is kinda cool... interesting to see what Empoleon can do, especially with all these Outrages running around.

Victreebel/Vileplume/Bellossom now have some semblance of a chance with an SD set with Seed Bomb/Leaf Blade :)

Lols GF gave Flareon Lava Plume just to make everyone cry :(

Ok, wtf. Why would you give Umbreon Guard Swap?? I suppose it might be useful in Double Battles?

Bug Bite on Forretress ftw. Scrub you Celebi! :)

Scyther/Scizor get Bullet Punch. :)

Curse Bibarel ftw :)

Lols Kricketune got a lot of love. Why GF? Why waste your time? :(

Darkrai with Nasty Plot. 'Nuff said.

Shaymin sky forme with all sorts of ridiculous moves. 'Nuff said.

[sims796]

Well, Leaf Blade Salamence does beat all the other pokes around...

Hopefully, they will help D-Nite out a bit. If they cuold just give him Ice Pawnch.

But he does boast a better mixed set than Mence, what with Ice Beam, Thunder[Bolt], as well as Outrage & DD. I feel that even if Mence get's Outrage, it will result in some more sets for Dragonite, rather than him being bumped off.

EDIT:RAICHU SIGNAL BEAM?!?!?! OH, HELL YEAH

[DarkTyphlosion157]

I think those who are making Platinum are trying to f off us competitive battlers on purpose.

Ah, sorry about the language.

[sims796]

Wait, Flareon & Dragonite both get Super Power!!!!

That really helps them out alot! I mean, Flareon may still be in uu, & Flare Blitz would help moar, but Super Power helps out a bunch!!

T-Pawnch helps Flygon beat Gyarados, so that boosts him up.

Out of all the Sinnoh starters, Empoleon benifitted most. Nape got Gunk Shot, I mean, WTF, & Terra got Earth Power, despite having EarthQUAKE.

I'm pretty pleased with the list so far, it definately changes the metagame,but maybe not for the worst. I would love to see more variety in these pokes, & this may give it to them.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Thing is, Lava Plume Vaporeon, Outrage Venusaur, Magnet Rise Luxray, Seed Bomb Donphan...they all make no sense...

What I find odd is, Typhlosion got T-PAUNCH in Emerald, but not Platinum.

[sims796]

Re-read the list. He said that

1)He manually tested it, so there may be pokes that he missed, &

2)He OMITTED pokes that learned the move in Emerald. Snorlax gets Ice Punch, but they left him out, too.

Sure, they may have pokes on there that makes no sense, but they hit many moves that we would KILL for. I mean, Flareon got Super Power! That just boosts him up to actually being useful! Same with Nite, being the only dragon to get it. He can now be fully Banded, without needing Fire Blast. Super Power is a great way for SpecsNite (who still has more moves) to beat Blissey.

Besides, the game is for kids. That means there will be some things that makes no sense (srsly, Lava Plume?). But we should count our blessings.

Super Power Tysplosion FTW!!!

[DarkTyphlosion157]

If only...then Blissey wouldn't be having such a good time...

Ah yeah, forgot about omissions...explains Weavile not being on the Ice Punch tutor list...

Permission to laugh @ Entei's Eruption.

[Magmortified]

According to a little reading on Smogon, Hypnosis is back down to 60 accuracy. Not sure, but that's what I read. =P Plus Bullet Punch Scizor. Platinum just hates on Gengar.

Outrage Mence, Ice Punch Lucario... is nothing sacred? D: To be honest, I'm really hoping that somewhere there'll be an environment untouched by Platinum's evil. Sure, the Rotom formes look cool, but after that it's just more blurring of the metagame that I'm not sure I want.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Just be damn lucky Lucario didn't get the lot. Seriously, the overpopular dog thing got too much stuff. I think Platinum broke OU.

[sims796]

Permission granted.

Still, I am pleased at who got what. Vilplume getting Seed Bomb...srsly. Bellosom may have Leaf Blade (which is superior, what with higher base power & crtical chance), but Seed Bomb isn't a poor Substitute. Regardless, the BOTH suck with Physical moves, so it matters not. I'm just glad they got something,though I wish it were special moves.

Super Power on Pinsir isn't enough to make it OU. It DOES have Close Combat, but it gives the player some options. Which would you prefer, a drop in offence,or a drop in defence? Either way, it isn't a killer.

As I said, Flareon & Dragonite GREATLY appreciates Super Power. Now, Flareon has some sort of coverage. Instead of relying on Double Edge, he can use that killer physical stat much better. Yeah, he'd kill for Flare Blitz, but this should quell his appetite for a while, anyway. And Dragonite doesn't need to use that iffy Focus Punch amymoar, what with Super Power. He still has the great special movepool, and can use special attacks much more effeciently. And he can raep with Outrage.

These pokes getting the many Punches helps, too. Flygon is much better at beating Gyarados with T-Punch over Stone Edge. Lucario doesn't fear Gya, or other dragons at that.


I don't think that Platinum broke OU, just changed it. I can really see a major overhaul, but not one as negative.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Becuase Lucario can't really be countered anymore and Salamence is the new Garchomp with its Outrage, yeah, OU isn't broke eh?

Just be lucky we didn't get Recover Bronzong and Dusknoir.

Oh yeah...lol

[sims796]

What? Lucario is still slow as dirt, & X Speed doesn't always save him. Without Crunch, SD Lucario is still walled by Cressila, & if it forsakes X-Speed, any faster sweeper stops it. Ice Punch means Gliscor isn't safe, but now others are. He only has four move spaces, and if he loses Crunch, Cressy, Gengar, etc, could stop him. And let's not forget, Weezing beats it no mattter what it uses.

And Salamence isn't as bulky as Garchomp, he lacks Sand Veil, and is still suspect to a good Revenge killer like Weavile. Not to mention the fact that he is still walled by steels. He's only a faster D-Nite. In fact, Lucario helps keep Mence in check.

They got great updates, but nothing game breaking. As I said, it is far too early to start calling OU broken. Other pokes had great improvements as well.

[AluminumKnight]

Becuase Lucario can't really be countered anymore and Salamence is the new Garchomp with its Outrage, yeah, OU isn't broke eh?

Just be lucky we didn't get Recover Bronzong and Dusknoir.

Oh yeah...lol

You know, you're really starting to get annoying about this... You have to look past the moves that a couple of pokemon get and look at the big picture, like the rest of us have been talking about, instead of dwelling on OMG SALAMANCE WIT OUTRAGE!!!1111

[sims796]

No he's not, he has a good point. Mence is definately scarier with Outrage, as unlike Chomp, he can actually increase SPEED as well as Attack. That is very scary, as even Choice Scarf Attackers may not be able to beat it.

[Dark Azelf]

You know, you're really starting to get annoying about this... You have to look past the moves that a couple of pokemon get and look at the big picture, like the rest of us have been talking about, instead of dwelling on OMG SALAMANCE WIT OUTRAGE!!!1111

The heck ?

That was uncalled for =/.


Seriously if this is going to be the start of another "sour discussion thread" then i wont hesitate to infract people, so stop before it even begins to bud into that.

Now, can we get back on topic please.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

I think Salamence's counters are going to reduce to Bronzong and Hippowdon and thats it. My team is gonna have a DDMence weak when Platinum rolls around. And TPunchLuke.

BoltBeam Punch Lucario is gonna cause a lot of counter problems. Unless you know its moveset, tossing Gliscor/Gyara/Bulkymence is gonna lead in disaster.

Looks like Typhlosion will be staying in BL for a long time.
Steelix I think is going to make the jump to OU. CurseLix laughs at any physical attacks, and with Careful 252/252, plus Steel type, not many special attacks will wreck it either. OK, Water, Fire and Fighting.

[Dark Azelf]

Steelix I think is going to make the jump to OU. CurseLix laughs at any physical attacks, and with Careful 252/252, plus Steel type, not many special attacks will wreck it either. OK, Water, Fire and Fighting.

I was thinking this when i saw steelix got curse.

G/S/C set or what ? haha. Shame the slower PHazer always goes last now, in G/S/C the slower PHazer went FIRST which means Curse and Roar were pretty nasty.

Anyways, Nasty Plot Darkrai, im really not looking forward to facing that....at all.

And heaven forbid if Heracross gets Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt.

[sims796]

Not at all!

Lucario cannot do much damage to Cressila without Crunch. He only has room for FOUR MOVES. Let's look at them...

Close Combat is his main STAB. That stays.

Swords Dance is needed as well.

Without Extremespeed, Lucario gets revenge killed easily.

That leaves one more move availible.

Crunch is almost necessary.Without it, he gets walled by pokes like Cressila, Dusknoir, and other bulky Psychics. But he is stopped by Bulky dargons & Gya.

Stone Edge helps take on Gyarados, or even Mence. But it STILL leaves him walled by Cressy, etc.


No matter what you use, Gliscor stops them all. But...

Ice Punch beats Gliscor. You are now walled by Gya, Cressy, Noir, etc.

Thunder Punch helps to REALLY beat Gya. Great for teams that is really weak to Gya, but useless elswhere.

No matter what, ygou are still stopped by Weezing & Spiritomb.



So how is it so dangerous? The only problem is that Lucario is a dangerous switch in, as you don't know what it has, but it is in no way uncounterable.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Oh yeah, I forgot Weezing laughs at whatever Lucario does.

Nice to see Blaziken got a 120 Fighting attack now. but...INFERIOR TO CLOSE COMBAT

Luxray is damn loving Platinum.

Luxray w. Choice Scarf
Ability: Rivalry
EVs: 252 Atk, what else?
Naughty Nature
Thunderbolt
HP (Ice)
Superpower
Crunch

I can see this performing well in OU. You should be female though.

[shedinjask]

Female? Then you get walled by males. Blissey isn't switching into any kind of Superpower and Cresselia is easily taken care of elsewhere (SCIZOR RAPE) so male is superior.

Thing is, Lava Plume Vaporeon, Outrage Venusaur, Magnet Rise Luxray...

Magnet Rise's Japanese name is Electrolevitate. It uses electricity to mess with the gravity. Vaporeon didn't get Lava Plume, Flareon did. And Venusaur looks like it could go on a rampage.

The same way Pachurisu got Seed Bomb.

Pachi gets Seed Bomb because it's a squirrel, which carry acorns. Do elephants carry seeds around?

You guys are all like OMG OUTRAGE MENCE but seriously, it's not Garchomp. It has a SR weak, is frailer, is vulnerable to Sandstorm, and most importantly has Dragon Dance instead of Swords Dance. Sure it can raise its speed, but faster doesn't mean much when you don't have the power to kill things like Garchomp did. Cresselia and Slowbro take hits from Mence much better than they did from Garchomp.

Now, let me show you what it's really all about. Outrage Kingdra.

OU Kingdra @ Life Orb
252 Attk/252 Spd/4 HP -- Lonely/Naughty
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Aqua Tail/Waterfall
Substitute/Draco Meteor

Ubers Kingdra @ Life Orb
252 Attk/252 SAttk/4 Spd -- Lonely/Naughty/Mild/Rash
Waterfall/Aqua Tail
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Ice Beam/Signal Beam

Things are going to get ass-raped.

Also of note are Curse Steelix and Bibarel, Eruption Entei, Aqua Tail Tyranitar (lol Hippowdon is 2HKO'd with Rocks by CBTar), probable Vacuum Wave Alakazam, Trick on Pory-Z and Drifblim and possibly Mew, Gastrodon getting special STAB, Knock Off is on Empoleon and now legal with Rapid Spin on Armaldo and Tentacruel, oh and yes:

Scizor @ Life Orb
252 Spd (or HP)/252 Attk/4 HP (or Spd) -- Adamant
X-Scissor
Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Roost

Scizor is a pimp.

EDIT: SPRITES HERE (http://sfc.pokemon-inside.net/platinum.php).

Hahaha Chingling and Tangrowth.

[Samson]

i'm so happy for flareon =)

lucario has reached WTF status. i was so sure they weren't going to give it any of the elemental punches but they did it anyway. it just didn't make sense when lucario can't learn tbolt. pulse this, pulse that... THUNDERPUNCH SON!

seedbomb on donphan makes CB set less novelty.

nasty plot crobat has a chance!! o_o

floatzel got ice punch yay

cb flygon is back in town (woot woot)

yay mamo is no longer a punk biotch rofl

[sims796]

So where the hell does he carry those Seed Bombs? Second, no one sayng OMG MENCE!!! Only Tysplosion, but he changed his mind.

I am very glad to see to see Curse on Steelix. Very glad indeed.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Looks like Typhlosion got nothing. Shame. I would have liked to use Superpower over Focus Punch on the CSPHlo set.

Liking Signal Beam on Manectric. That means my Pokeradar Shiny Manectric has a 4th special attack. T-Bolt/Flamethrower/Overheat/Signal Beam. No good HP sadly.

[The Hero Without a Name]

Toggy got no real upgrades ='(

Elemental Punching Luke? Outraging Salamence/every other dragon? Dang... the metagame's REALLY gonna get shaken up now.

[.]

I'm assuming Salamence gets Outrage this gen. Just saying that it's completely unfair to Nite =-[

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Toggy got no real upgrades ='(

Elemental Punching Luke? Outraging Salamence/every other dragon? Dang... the metagame's REALLY gonna get shaken up now.

The metagame'll live. It did before. ElementalPunchLuke isn't going to make as big of a mess as people anticipate it will, it just is initially harder to counter.

Outrage Salamence can ACTUALLY be stopped. It only get +1 attack at a time, therefore Bronzong and Hippowdon, and even Donphan and bulky waters beat it sometimes. Bronzong is the 99% counter.

[sims796]

Boy, wil ya read the other posts? I'm not gonna repeat myself, so I'll just quote:

Still, I am pleased at who got what. Vilplume getting Seed Bomb...srsly. Bellosom may have Leaf Blade (which is superior, what with higher base power & crtical chance), but Seed Bomb isn't a poor Substitute. Regardless, the BOTH suck with Physical moves, so it matters not. I'm just glad they got something,though I wish it were special moves.

Super Power on Pinsir isn't enough to make it OU. It DOES have Close Combat, but it gives the player some options. Which would you prefer, a drop in offence,or a drop in defence? Either way, it isn't a killer.

As I said, Flareon & Dragonite GREATLY appreciates Super Power. Now, Flareon has some sort of coverage. Instead of relying on Double Edge, he can use that killer physical stat much better. Yeah, he'd kill for Flare Blitz, but this should quell his appetite for a while, anyway. And Dragonite doesn't need to use that iffy Focus Punch amymoar, what with Super Power. He still has the great special movepool, and can use special attacks much more effeciently. And he can raep with Outrage.

These pokes getting the many Punches helps, too. Flygon is much better at beating Gyarados with T-Punch over Stone Edge. Lucario doesn't fear Gya, or other dragons at that.


I don't think that Platinum broke OU, just changed it. I can really see a major overhaul, but not one as negative.

As for Lucario using the Punches:

Not at all!

Lucario cannot do much damage to Cressila without Crunch. He only has room for FOUR MOVES. Let's look at them...

Close Combat is his main STAB. That stays.

Swords Dance is needed as well.

Without Extremespeed, Lucario gets revenge killed easily.

That leaves one more move availible.

Crunch is almost necessary.Without it, he gets walled by pokes like Cressila, Dusknoir, and other bulky Psychics. But he is stopped by Bulky dargons & Gya.

Stone Edge helps take on Gyarados, or even Mence. But it STILL leaves him walled by Cressy, etc.


No matter what you use, Gliscor stops them all. But...

Ice Punch beats Gliscor. You are now walled by Gya, Cressy, Noir, etc.

Thunder Punch helps to REALLY beat Gya. Great for teams that is really weak to Gya, but useless elswhere.

No matter what, ygou are still stopped by Weezing & Spiritomb.



So how is it so dangerous? The only problem is that Lucario is a dangerous switch in, as you don't know what it has, but it is in no way uncounterable.

Just cause Mence has Outrage, I don't think it'll be enough to ruin Nite. Now, his other skills can shine.He has more special moves than Mence could only dream about, and he gets Freakin' Super Power!

EDIT:AHA, TYHSPLOSION BEAT MEH

[.]

Um, no. As a pure DDer, Salamence is going to totally outclass Nite. Nite'll have to stop using Fire/Dragon/Ground or else he's going to be dropping in usage FAST.

[The Hero Without a Name]

Wow. Looks like Medicham/Gallade got a better STAB (though nobody really cares)

[sims796]

He has fighting now. As a pure Outrage user, of corse Mence beats him. But not only does he get Super Power, beating almost all usual switch-ins, he has a better special movepool and a wider range of roles. for Outraging purposes, go to Mence. But that is not all Nite offers.

Um, yeah, anything that's worthwhile to the discussion, other than a mior spelling error?



I thought Psycho Cut was better than Zen Headbutt?

[.]

He has fighting now. As a pure Outrage user, of corse Mence beats him. But not only does he get Super Power, beating almost all usual switch-ins, he has a better special movepool and a wider range of roles. for Outraging purposes, go to Mence. But that is not all Nite offers.

Blegh, he's still very inferior to Specsmence, although he does have a few good special moves, Mence has a lot more advantages.

Dragon/Fighting/??? is going to be a new combination for Nite me thinks.

please spell my name right

Wow! Great job with this waste of a post.

[DarkTyphlosion157]

No problem-o!

Was there any other Pokemon you lot were having in mind for a certain move? I was thinking Zen Headbutt Espeon, purely becuase of it being Psychic...

[Dark Azelf]

Wow, i can already see where this is going, is it really THAT hard to hold a discussion in S+M without the crap that automatically comes with it ?.


EDIT : - Back on topic, Heracross @Ice Punch + Zen headbutt would be nasty, as said previously.

[.]

Wow, i can already see where this is going, is it really THAT hard to hold a discussion in S+M without the crap that automatically comes with it ?.

Don't use bad words; it's unbecoming of a lady =/

I just noticed Lucario got Ice Punch. Looks like Weezing'll be the ONLY 'safe' switch in now.

[sims796]

Well, like what? Only real advantage that Mence has is speed. Nite could go special, with Super Power, it has Heal Bell, for whatever reason, etc...

It's kinda early to say that Nite will go onto the abyss. There will always be Dragonite fans (I'm not one of them) who will stick to Nite. Of course, this will result in people finding new ways of using him. I hardly see Nite as it is, anyway. I just think that we will exploit his various options more, than just relying on DDOutrage Nite.

EDIT: Do I really gotta repost that large Lucario & Ice Punch post again?!

[.]

Well, like what? Only real advantage that Mence has is speed. Nite could go special, with Super Power, it has Heal Bell, for whatever reason, etc...


Mence has higher speed, Intimidate, more SpA, and honestly, a better sprite than Nite =/

[Dark Azelf]

Don't use bad words; it's unbecoming of a lady =/



No ?.


Meh, i dont think the metagame will change that much tbh, it'll just be what it is like currently where you're revenge killing everything pretty much.

And in a kinda positive it discourages god awful stall =).

[DarkTyphlosion157]

Btw, looks like Scizor has proven why it should be in OU now. 90 power priority which hits much stuff for neutral + 130 base Atk + SD = OU CutMan.

[boo836]

Sky shaymin is broken so badly. T_T

And technically, it does have para support, from the very sucky move secret power. So it can para flinch. But I will probably not see it.

[Crazed_One]

Did anyone notice that Platinum gave Gyarados Outrage! w00t!

[SethCullen]

Did anyone notice that Platinum gave Gyarados Outrage! w00t!


Wow thats awesome. Shaymin Sky Forme is going to be the best ever. i dont care. Serene Grace+Air Slash= Flinch.

[sims796]

On Lucario with Ice Punch

As for Lucario using the Punches:

Not at all!

Lucario cannot do much damage to Cressila without Crunch. He only has room for FOUR MOVES. Let's look at them...

Close Combat is his main STAB. That stays.

Swords Dance is needed as well.

Without Extremespeed, Lucario gets revenge killed easily.

That leaves one more move availible.

Crunch is almost necessary.Without it, he gets walled by pokes like Cressila, Dusknoir, and other bulky Psychics. But he is stopped by Bulky dargons & Gya.

Stone Edge helps take on Gyarados, or even Mence. But it STILL leaves him walled by Cressy, etc.


No matter what you use, Gliscor stops them all. But...

Ice Punch beats Gliscor. You are now walled by Gya, Cressy, Noir, etc.

Thunder Punch helps to REALLY beat Gya. Great for teams that is really weak to Gya, but useless elswhere.

No matter what, ygou are still stopped by Weezing & Spiritomb.



So how is it so dangerous? The only problem is that Lucario is a dangerous switch in, as you don't know what it has, but it is in no way uncounterable.


Now, on Mence...

It may have a little more special attack, but it still has an inferior movepool. Plus, Nite could use Specs much better now. It can go Special, and use Super Power for any Blissey switch-ins, while Mencw must rely on that Piss poor Brick Break.

All it really has is more speed & Intimidate. That isn't enough to put it so far ahead of Nite. Granted, it was already used more than Nite as it is, but I see that it Mence with Outrage will result in alternative uses for Nite.

[.]

No ?.


Meh, i dont think the metagame will change that much tbh, it'll just be what it is like currently where you're revenge killing everything pretty much.

And in a kinda positive it discourages god awful stall =).

Using bad words is a bad thing to do as a role-model honestly.

Btw, looks like Scizor has proven why it should be in OU now. 90 power priority which hits much stuff for neutral + 130 base Atk + SD = OU CutMan.

Thank god, that thing was ass all 3 gens.

This game easily pwns DP. end of poast.

Um, that wasn't helpful to the discussion whatsoever.

On Topic: Considering Chomp is OU (and that these new forms are all uber) Who will be the most threatening force? I'm thinking Salamence has an opprotunity to even outshine Garchomp.

[sims796]

What bad word? Crap? That's allowed here.

I think Dossucks with Outrage, TBH. Waterfall has the same base power as Outrage (after STAB), but Mence AND Nite does it better.

[Crazed_One]

Assuming Chomp is UBAR+, which it is, I think that Sally will take over more of Chomps place.

[sims796]

That might change. This is a whole new ball game. Don't you pay attention? PLUME HAS SEED BOMB. MOAR UBAR THEN EVAR!!!!

[boo836]

Using bad words is a bad thing to do as a role-model honestly.



Thank god, that thing was ass all 3 gens.



lol

Anyways, after looking at the stats for rotom's new forms, there is a new boosts in all stats except for hp and speed. (the latter has dropped)

This could mean that rotom's forms could see way more use!

[.]

By the way, that bad words thing was a joke >.> Shows how much you guys know me.

Anyway, if Sala DOES become the new Chomp, I better get my argument ready.

[sims796]

Exactly!

People keep comming at these changes as "OMG, now my metagaemz r ruined!", or "OMG, this will rulez!!!"

Try to have an open mind. Sure, maybe that will happen, but I would love to see these changes. I feel that it may encourage more creative & different sets. No, not those crappy "Fling Lopunny", or "Recycle SnorlaX", but a refreshing change of pace to this metagame.

EDIT:I was talking to boo with that "exactly" thing.


I know no one one this site, youplay pogeymanz.

[boo836]

Also about giratina, since it has better special attack than before, won't it actually work with charge beam? With that boost, Giratina will wreak havok.

Giratina Origin form:@ Leftovers
Modest
252 spatt, 252 hp, 6 spd
-Charge beam
-Shadow ball
-Rest/will o wisp
-Sleep talk/Dragon pulse

I can sort of see this working. With charge beam's boosts and stab shadow ball, which can hurt psychics that are commonly found in ubers, this could be a set. If you want to hit blissey, than go dragon pulse and Wow for some duribility.

[The Hero Without a Name]

He has fighting now. As a pure Outrage user, of corse Mence beats him. But not only does he get Super Power, beating almost all usual switch-ins, he has a better special movepool and a wider range of roles. for Outraging purposes, go to Mence. But that is not all Nite offers.

Um, yeah, anything that's worthwhile to the discussion, other than a mior spelling error?



I thought Psycho Cut was better than Zen Headbutt?
Nope. Zen Headbutt's 80 BP, while Psycho Cut's a Psychic version of Night Slash/Slash/whatever.

[sims796]

Oh, I get it.

Still, they are too slow to take advantage of the flinch rate, so they may appreciate the crit rate of Psycho Cut.

[Magmortified]

My intention is to make a server preserving pre-Platinum gameplay. >=O If only just 'cause I don't really want to deal with the changes, and there appear to be a number of people who share that view. =P Blegh, Trick Gengar, blegh.

Anyhow, since Scizor is making it hard on things for offensive teams in the Platinum game, I've got the idea of packing Rotom on my Platinum offensive team. The thing's pretty much a perfect counter to dual-priority Scizor... or that's what I'm thinking.

-SD
-Quick Attack
-Bullet Punch
-Roost/Brick Break.

Supposedly. Since the new Rotom's pretty much Spiritomb with more sweeperly stats, it should be cool. :D Toaster forme will be the awesomest-ever way to deal with Scizor.

[Glitter Stain]

Solarbeam? Are you serious? Even in sun, Seed Flare is better because of 80% drop rate.

Skymin @ Choice Specs
252 SAttk/252 Spd/4 HP -- Timid
Seed Flare
Air Slash
HP Ground
Psychic/Leech Seed

Psychic for CROBAT YES. Alternatively, you could Leech Seed a predicted Muk or Registeel or Regice switch in, I hear they're great counters.

A few more things to add: Skymin does not get Roost which sucks since giving it to defensive Shaymin would rock. Origiratina is confirmed to get Mud-Slap, Spite (ANOTHER FORME PRESSURE STALL YESS), and Outrage. The washing machine Rotom is real and gains Hydro Pump.
Why in the world would you run Leech Seed with Specs, or any choice item?

[Magmortified]

Presumably to try and catch switch-ins like Registeel unawares and switch off to something that can better deal, while sapping HP (which most of them can't really recover all that well)... as shedinjask said in the post you just quoted. ._. Psychic's mainly just a huge filler, anyways.

[Glitter Stain]

Presumably to try and catch switch-ins like Registeel unawares and switch off to something that can better deal, while sapping HP (which most of them can't really recover all that well)... as shedinjask said in the post you just quoted. ._. Psychic's mainly just a huge filler, anyways.
You'd then be required to swap out before you could do anything else. Status moves on a Choice set aren't the best strategy.

[Magmortified]

You'd then be required to swap out before you could do anything else.

Ermm... yeah. And things like Registeel coming in on you would force you to swap out anyways. So...

Status moves on a Choice set aren't the best strategy.

Most of the time, no. But it's not like it's taking up valuable moveslot space. The fourth slot is pretty much filler. Psychic's, what? For Crobat?

[sims796]

He's right. Status moves are usually just to take up space and it's still damned useful. Roserade does it well.

[evilcheese]

Cool we can have a wannabe togekiss shaymin =p

[Samson]

i'd like to point out that outrage on gyarados , while seemingly pointless, is quite promising. water + dragon covers everything but empoleon, but if you run LOdd gyara w/ EQ, you're hitting everything with a good amount of coverage, including dragons. ice fang does more damage to quad weaks but not when they're running yache berry. only downside is that once they've figured out you have outrage, it doesn't take much for forretress to explode in your face or skarmory to blow it away, and hell, heatran might be able to get away with surviving + retaliating w/ hp electric.

[sims796]

That's the thing. Sure, it opens up coverage, but it laacks any real power. Stone Edge & Waterfall has great coverage. Earthquake & Ice Fang has great coverage. Hell, water alone has great coverage. So, I don't see a point in Outrage, which locks you into a moove you can't break out of, and allowing steels to set up.

Still, can't knock it if you didn't try it, so...

[Samson]

i'm kinda disappointed they didn't give more NU/UU pokes trick. those tiers are really reliant on items and status. shaking the tiers up a bit wouldn't hurt.

[.]

Outrage on Gyarados would suck. Too much of a set up fodder, and loses STAB, which hurts.

[Waffle-San]

Hmm, soon the debate will start on moving Sky Forme Shaymin to Ubers. Everyone knows it's coming. If it wasn't so weak to ice then Seed Flare, Air Slash and Serene Grace wouldn't be scared of too much.

I'm going to take a Stab at Rotom assuming some stuff since I'm probabley one of the most frequent users of him anyways. <3

Toaster Rotom@Choice Scarf
Levitate-Modest
252 Sp.Atk/248 Spd/8 HP
~Thunderbolt
~Overheat/Fire move
~Shadow Ball
~HP Ice

That's assuming he can still learn Thunderbolt, if not then Reflect, or set up and switch moves work. He was an underrated lead for me when I used him before, I'm sure he can still pull it off. I always found this more effective then the status version
Though those EV's give him 406 or 405 speed, (wasn't able to check.) Speed could be lowered to 395.
Looks like fun for me, even if know one else is intimidated bye a Toaster. Here's hoping he's a Fire/Ghost type, though I guess Ghost/Electric give him less weaknesses.

[boo836]

Then it would be a late game sweeper, when you know of steels and get them out of the way.

And for the fun of it

Rotom freezer:@ choice scarf
Modest
252 spatt, 252 spd, 6 def
-Blizzard/ Ice beam (if it gets it, which I'm sure of)
-Thunderbolt (I think it will have it)
-Trick
-Hp Ground

This thing has stab ice beam, access to boltbeam, and has good spatt and defences.

[Skip Shot]

i'd like to point out that outrage on gyarados , while seemingly pointless, is quite promising. water + dragon covers everything but empoleon, but if you run LOdd gyara w/ EQ, you're hitting everything with a good amount of coverage, including dragons. ice fang does more damage to quad weaks but not when they're running yache berry. only downside is that once they've figured out you have outrage, it doesn't take much for forretress to explode in your face or skarmory to blow it away, and hell, heatran might be able to get away with surviving + retaliating w/ hp electric.

Aqua Tail/ Waterfall and Ice Fang already covers everything btw.

I can't wait for Platinum moves to get posted on Shoddy. Abuse Ubers with Chompy and Giratina. I rlly think that some rotom forms should move up a tier(I forgot wat tier they r in) due to movesets. Freezer Rotom is gonna pwn on Hail teams w/ Blizzard and T-Wave and such. I posted a Blizzard set on the first page somewhere. Some of the new moves pokes are getting is weird though. Srsly, name a reason why Crobat should have Heat Wave. I rlly think that theses r just test runs, and some of the controversial moves are false, like Heat Wave Crobat.

[Glitter Stain]

He's right. Status moves are usually just to take up space and it's still damned useful. Roserade does it well.
I don't know why you're obsessing over something that's not even that great; it's not damned useful. You may find it useful, but I'm suggesting not to use it because there are better options.

[boo836]

Hardcorerock, how does it cover everything? It doesn't hit empoleon, starmie, and other pure waters?

And mobile tsk, it is useful. It drains away 12% of hp and restores your own. Not to mention it forces switches usually.

[Magmortified]

I don't know why you're obsessing over something that's not even that great; it's not damned useful. You may find it useful, but I'm suggesting not to use it because there are better options.

What, praytell? The only real reasons you'd use Psychic is probably for Crobat (lulz), and maybe to hit neutral on Zapdos... or something. That's not particularly helpful. Leech Seed, however, allows Shaymin to have a general purpose move that allows it to either scout, or do something to its common switch-ins without having to resort to wasting Seed Flare PP. It also helps the thing you DO switch into Skymin counters deal better, since they're siphoning health off.

[sims796]

Maggy said it best. Utility moves on Choiced pokes are a great way for over all scouting, and hampering counters.

[Tortured_Soul]

wtf...Zapdos and Crobat learn Heat Wave, Donphan gets Seed Bomb, Gyarados gets Outrage. THEY HAVE COMPLETELY RETARDED THE METAGAME.

[.]

Crobat has Heat Wave. Prepare for Crobat to become Uber. I'm bringing it back baby!

[boo836]

Zapdos and crobat have heat wave because of it's smelly farts. =X

Anyways, where do you guys find this info?