Proposition 8 (California)

This is about eliminating same sex rights in California, and probably this will be in other states in the US

Yes means gay marriage will be eliminated.
No means it will stay.


My Opinion:
Some people are ACTUALLY voting yes on banning it, those cowards. They say its about teaching it in schools. Thats not true. They don't want gays to be married. Who cares about your sexual orientation? We are all effing equal. It makes me SO sick! I'm not gay, but treat everyone equal!

If I had a dollar for everytime this issue was brought up... here's my view on the whole thing.

Anyway, something I keep hearing a lot of is people using religion as an excuse for not wanting gays and lesbians to marry. Apparently, God doesn't approve of two men/two women getting married... marriage is meant for a man and a woman. So what? That's one religion; there's hundreds of religions out there, and I'm sure one of them doesn't say anything about how 'wrong' it is for two men/women to get married.

So are the 'Nay Sayers' trying to force their religion on us? I mean, I'm pretty sure we have the right to choose our religion... which means we should have the right to marry whoever we want, if the religion we choose has nothing against it.

Not sure if what I just said made any sense, but hopefully most of you will understand what I mean.

I would definintely ote No
I'm not gay, but 2 people on my friends list are, and well, everyone should be allowed to have there own rights.

They need a Gay Star to come out and make a Nelson Mandella speech

I'm voting (actually can't vote yet XD) no

Simply put its the right to marrage, i mean honestly what is their problem with it ill never know, with them saying it'll be taught at schools...ok when in the hell was that a issue honestly the "yes" people have strayed waaaaay to far from the main point, as for massachusets well thats them, what happens there doesn't always mean it'll happen here


to me marrage isn't "by man and a women" but more so "by two people who are comitted to each other) as for "religious freedom", isn't the issue about a civil union?

honestly what happened to "life liberty and the persuit of happiness"?

Dukey said:

I would definintely ote No
I'm not gay, but 2 people on my friends list are, and well, everyone should be allowed to have there own rights.

They need a Gay Star to come out and make a Nelson Mandella speech

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Ellen Degeneres did.

To be blunt, vote no. Gays should have the right to be married, done and dusted.

If people feel they should have the right to marry others of the same sex, I'll tolerate it as long as a) this is the majority vote and b) people that perform marriage ceremonies are not forced to perform said ceremonies. This is how democracy functions.

I'm voting yes, anyways. I consider gay marriage to be unethical. On top of that, gay couples would take benefits that are funded by my tax money which would normally be reserved for traditional couples.

Finally, this thread should be locked. There's no way in heck it's going to stay peaceful for long.

I agree with the above poster. Things like this shouldn't be posted on PC, as we do have a lot of ethnic/cultural blending here (in essence, the vast majority of members here are going to vote "No" anyway, and there are a good portion of members here that are actually gay.)

With that said, this topic is just going to have the 62,000 against the 4 who say yes. There's nothing to be discussed on this issue anyway...if you can vote, go do it. Another good reason this is pointless is because well over 50% of the people on PC cannot vote and don't have a say in the matter.

On top of that, gay couples would take benefits that are funded by my tax money which would normally be reserved for traditional couples.

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What does that matter? o.o;

What's unethical about two mature adults being in love?
Mind if I ask you, what is even sacred about marriage any more? People are allowed to divorce people on the dime today.
Basically, a man and a woman can get fall in what they think is love, and then divorce shortly thereafter, but a man and a man or a woman and a woman who love each other cannot be married?
Not to say they might not get divorced either, but you have to take in to consideration it's not ethical as a whole to deny people rights to happiness. The core, basic American ideals are established in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

On a further note, to use it's against moral ethics / religion - take in to consideration one of the reasons America was settled by English Settlers - to escape Religious Persecution.
Moreover, you're being unconstitutional by saying America has a set religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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Would you care to elaborate on your logic?

And in short, I'd vote No.

txteclipse said:

If people feel they should have the right to marry others of the same sex, I'll tolerate it as long as a) this is the majority vote and b) people that perform marriage ceremonies are not forced to perform said ceremonies. This is how democracy functions.

I'm voting yes, anyways. I consider gay marriage to be unethical. On top of that, gay couples would take benefits that are funded by my tax money which would normally be reserved for traditional couples.

Finally, this thread should be locked. There's no way in heck it's going to stay peaceful for long.

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Minimodding is horrible.

I find it pretty offensive that anyone would vote "yes". Whether same sex marraige is traditional or not, it should be legal. Just a message to the 4 people who voted "yes":

Learn to accept others' opinions and preferences. It's not hard to do.

Ritsuki said:

If I had a dollar for everytime this issue was brought up... here's my view on the whole thing.

Anyway, something I keep hearing a lot of is people using religion as an excuse for not wanting gays and lesbians to marry. Apparently, God doesn't approve of two men/two women getting married... marriage is meant for a man and a woman. So what? That's one religion; there's hundreds of religions out there, and I'm sure one of them doesn't say anything about how 'wrong' it is for two men/women to get married.

So are the 'Nay Sayers' trying to force their religion on us? I mean, I'm pretty sure we have the right to choose our religion... which means we should have the right to marry whoever we want, if the religion we choose has nothing against it.

Not sure if what I just said made any sense, but hopefully most of you will understand what I mean.

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Usually the person who believes in one religion not hundreds, so that is why they say what they say.

Domo the Rock Maniac said:

Minimodding is horrible.

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Mod here.
Don't break the word limit.

Domo the Rock Maniac said:

Minimodding is horrible.

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Yeah, you shouldn't do it.

Glitter Stain said:

I find it pretty offensive that anyone would vote "yes". Whether same sex marraige is traditional or not, it should be legal. Just a message to the 4 people who voted "yes":

Learn to accept others' opinions and preferences. It's not hard to do.

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Cool, you should learn to do that too.

Chibi-chan said:

Mod here.
Don't break the word limit.

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I thought as long as its 25 characters, its okay. But, whatever...

Obviously the people who vote Yes aren't posting here..

Glitter Stain said:

I find it pretty offensive that anyone would vote "yes". Whether same sex marraige is traditional or not, it should be legal. Just a message to the 4 people who voted "yes":

Learn to accept others' opinions and preferences. It's not hard to do.

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Isn't it just hilarious when people will not accept others' beliefs on the grounds that said beliefs aren't accepting? Maybe you should accept the fact that some people consider the union of a man and a woman to be a sacred thing. Hasn't it occurred to you that some people are deeply offended by anyone voting no?

As for my opinion, I believe that gay marriage is wrong, and I would not vote in favor of its legalization. However, it's really not an opinion that I can impose on others politically. I think this matter should be left up to the states, and definitely not the courts. For this kind of personal issue, it only makes sense that the decision be left to the people. If legalization of gay marriage were passed in my state due to a popular vote, I would not complain.

We can argue the morality of gay marriage until the cows come home, and even then we wouldn't get anywhere. As far as legality goes, let's have it reflect the overall opinion of the populace.

What does that matter? o.o;

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It's my money. I don't want it to be used for something I consider wrong.

Mind if I ask you, what is even sacred about marriage any more? People are allowed to divorce people on the dime today.

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That doesn't make it right. I still hold marriage to be very sacred, even if other people don't.

Not to say they might not get divorced either, but you have to take in to consideration it's not ethical as a whole to deny people rights to happiness.

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Slaughter makes serial killers happy. Burning buildings make pyromaniacs happy. Rape makes rapists happy. Toning down the intensity a bit, shoplifting makes thieves happy. Should we stop denying them what makes them happy? Again, this is how democracy works. The majority of people decide what is acceptable and what is not. And again, I will live with it if the majority of people vote to allow gay marriage.

The core, basic American ideals are established in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

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The pursuit of happiness is bound by the law, however. As I said in my before example, you can do whatever makes you happy as long as the majority of the country is okay with you doing so. The minority doesn't suddenly get special privilege because whatever they want to do will make them happy: if society worked that way, we would be forced to let rapists/serial killers/etc. do whatever they wanted, like I just showed.

Moreover, you're being unconstitutional by saying America has a set religion.

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I don't recall ever saying that.

We can argue the morality of gay marriage until the cows come home, and even then we wouldn't get anywhere. As far as legality goes, let's have it reflect the overall opinion of the populace.

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Agreed. It's pretty much as simple as that.

See, I'm pretty conflicted on this right now. I don't see how the majority of the U.S. won't vote against legalizing gay marriage, but really, it's something that is up for the states to decide.

As for me, I'm leaning towards yes (voting for proposition 8). And no, I don't believe voting for this means you're "Anti-gay" or you think that gay people are second class citizens. I certainly don't believe either of those. I just thing marriage should be between a man and a woman. Not even for religious reasons...My moral beliefs just direct me to have this opinion. And I'd appreciate it if no one called me a coward or a nut for thinking this way, and I will try do the same. I don't think anyone is wrong or right on this issue, I just think it's up to the people to decide. If the states decide it should be legal, so be it.

Slaughter makes serial killers happy. Burning buildings make pyromaniacs happy. Rape makes rapists happy. Toning down the intensity a bit, shoplifting makes thieves happy. Should we stop denying them what makes them happy? Again, this is how democracy works. The majority of people decide what is acceptable and what is not. And again, I will live with it if the majority of people vote to allow gay marriage.

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You can't possibly stretch a comparison between homosexuals and serial killers.

The pursuit of happiness is bound by the law, however. As I said in my before example, you can do whatever makes you happy as long as the majority of the country is okay with you doing so. The minority doesn't suddenly get special privilege because whatever they want to do will make them happy: if society worked that way, we would be forced to let rapists/serial killers/etc. do whatever they wanted, like I just showed.

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But marriage is more of a basic right, instead of a privilege, is it not?
Again, you're stretching a bit here - homosexuals marrying is quite different from letting bad guys run amuck.

That doesn't make it right. I still hold marriage to be very sacred, even if other people don't.

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What's sacred about it, then?

My question for you, txteclipse, is: what makes gay marriage ethical or unethical. ^^;

It's just astounding in this day and age that anyone can support legalized discrimination against another human being. It's a sad reflection on the human race as a whole. It's also astounding that people still use arguments like "if we legalize gay marriage, we'll have to legalize pedophilia / bestiality / etc." Last time I checked, those resulted in someone being harmed in one way or another. In marriage, both parties are consenting and fully cooperative with what's occurring.

The fact is, marriage is a sacred/religious institution. Whether you or I feels that gay marriage is wrong, the government has no business regulating what = marriage. That should be left to the individual religious groups to decide. Just because gay marriage goes against my beliefs, doesn't mean that it goes against everyone else's beliefs, and I respect that and believe that they're entitled to their morals and values. If a religious group or any individual chooses to perform gay marriage, then that's up to them and not up to the government to decide.

Everyone is equal, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and the government shouldn't be sticking its nose in religious affairs such as marriage. Gay couples are entitled to the same benefits as heterosexual couples (hospital visitation and such), but marriage should be left for religious institutions to decide how to handle.