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Hiche..
November 6th, 2008, 07:01 AM
Introduction

Opening paragraph:


There are many hack that are being posted here everyday. New users are joining this forum, and in a large number. Everyday more than 10 users join.

The scrap box is designed for hacks that are not eligible for playing, it's just expressing your ideas in a hack. But it seems a large quantity of hacks are being posted in the scrap box, and the author of the hack is still a beginner, and does not have any idea on how a hack works.


I, myself, do not like how hacks are being posted in a random way, and no effort seems to be done. However, some hacks do have potential which are in the scrap box now, like Pokemon Congbu, or Hero's path, and few others.


Write here how you feel about this release of unprepared and unsuitable hacks in the scrap box, and what is there to be advised to new users to do. Also, you can open a discussion.
Moreover, try giving some recommendations to the beginner hackers, and what should they do in order to start a hack before posting it.


Thank you,
Hiche~

Shadows
November 6th, 2008, 04:27 PM
I may edit this post if my thoughts change in the next few moments...

I think that the scrapbox needs a filter, so that threads that do not follow the rules won't go through.
That should block the spam threads.

Threads in the Scrapbox are suppose to be for beginning hacks, not ideas of hacks.
Hacks should be worked on by the author, and a team is only necessary for jobs the author cannot do.
(For example, I cannot sprite, but I could script and map.)
If the author knows little to nothing, there shouldn't be a thread until the hacker has the necessary skills to start a hack.

The Hacks Showcase should only be for Hacks with Major Progress done/being done.
Some hacks that just started may have potential, but they shouldn't be showcased until major progress has been made.

And to threads that do make it through, here's a tip-

Don't ask for a team , create a Team thread in Team Discussions.
If you can't do any hacking yourself, don't make a thread at all - Learn first.
Even if you just learn how to do a simple map, or a few-worded text script, or a sprite that isn't the best one around, it's better than forcing the hack on others and just beta testing it.

Satoshi Sugimori
November 6th, 2008, 04:47 PM
Hmm I think that the scrapbox needs rules to, just like that you show that some progress has been done so that we know that is isn't just an idea or someting... And I really hate it to see so much crap in the scrapbox, because of that the scrapbox get's under-rated and not looked in, and because of those people who do that iin the scrapbox the hack's with potential won't be seen untill they are in the Hacks Showcase..

And my tip for beginning hackers [out of own experience]
You should train all kinds of hacking skills first, and try making a hack whitout posting. If you eventually are ready for it [it took me almost 2 years] you should post your hack. And to be honest as you see it worked pretty well :P As I am now pretty good at many skills in hacking...

Shadows
November 6th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Hmm I think that the scrapbox needs rules to, just like that you show that some progress has been done so that we know that is isn't just an idea or someting... And I really hate it to see so much crap in the scrapbox, because of that the scrapbox get's under-rated and not looked in, and because of those people who do that iin the scrapbox the hack's with potential won't be seen untill they are in the Hacks Showcase..

And my tip for beginning hackers [out of own experience]
You should train all kinds of hacking skills first, and try making a hack whitout posting. If you eventually are ready for it [it took me almost 2 years] you should post your hack. And to be honest as you see it worked pretty well :P As I am now pretty good at many skills in hacking...
Actually there are rules... (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155972)
It's just no one reads em...
It takes a mod or someone else who read the rules to tell em what to fix.

Satoshi Sugimori
November 6th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Actually there are rules... (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155972)
It's just no one reads em...
It takes a mod or someone else who read the rules to tell em what to fix.

I c to be honest I never readed them, but it is a bit obvious but I meant like that you have to have atleast this "much" of information in your thread or something..

Ninja Caterpie
November 6th, 2008, 09:47 PM
Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. I get really annoyed when people can only "map" (normally terribly) and try to make a hack. It doesn't work. I understand if they mark ASM as taboo or something, but scripting is literally learning a couple of words and Hex is learning some numbers. Well, not that ASM isn't, but...still.

It's pathetic if some guy makes a hack and has no idea how to hack. It's made worse if they won't learn scripting. Mapping is sorta hard if you just can't, but scripting is just a bunch of words! Sure, mapping requires creativity, imagination and aesthetics, but scripting only requires the ability to remember words!

IIMarckus
November 6th, 2008, 10:40 PM
I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Nobody is pretending that Pokécommunity is a “professional” hacking community like RHDN. Granted, it is the largest Pokémon hacking community, but bear in mind that SPPf is the largest Pokémon forum. Does anyone expect the majority of (for example) the spriting or fanfiction sections there to be of reasonable quality?

These are people who don’t know how to hack, but see that they can do small changes to their favorite game. What’s the harm in that? Let them do their thing; it’s not like the high‐quality hacks here are unnoticed as a result.I understand if they mark ASM as taboo or something, but scripting is literally learning a couple of words and Hex is learning some numbers. Well, not that ASM isn't, but...still.ASM is a natural step up from scripting, and is not difficult to learn. The biggest hurdle in “assembly hacking” is understanding the Game Boy hardware, not actual assembly language.

Hiche..
November 7th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Well, IIMarckus, you have a point. But pretend everyday you look in the scrap box, and see 10 different hacks. You look at them and they are mostly empty. Don't you think a hacker should learn a few skills before? I mean at least mapping, or even beginning spriting.

I know one should do his thing by changing whatever he wants. But if he/she wants to change whatever he wants, then let him do it alone. Posting it won't be necessary, he should edit it the way he likes, and if it's good enough, he will post it. That's just me, you may have different opinions.

Satoshi Sugimori
November 7th, 2008, 05:42 AM
I think the first thing they should learn is scripting, cuz you see in all those thread:
SCRIPTERS NEEDED!!!!!!!!
And then they should learn mapping to improve their scripting, cuz I think if you learn scripting then mapping and then advanced scripting that is the perfect combo ^^ :P

IIMarckus
November 7th, 2008, 07:43 AM
Well, IIMarckus, you have a point. But pretend everyday you look in the scrap box, and see 10 different hacks. You look at them and they are mostly empty. Don't you think a hacker should learn a few skills before?Of course. However, this is not feasible. Getting everybody who participates to be good at ROM hacking is like getting everybody to be good at drawing or painting or math class. All are possible, but not everybody wants to be a good hacker even if they mess around with hacking sometimes.I know one should do his thing by changing whatever he wants. But if he/she wants to change whatever he wants, then let him do it alone. Posting it won't be necessary, he should edit it the way he likes, and if it's good enough, he will post it.I was under the impression that the Scrapbox was made to keep threads like this out of the Showcase. By extension, this of course means that Scrapbox threads will on average be of lower quality and more transient than the higher‐quality Showcase threads.

Hiche..
November 7th, 2008, 08:09 AM
Yes, I know that scrap box was made only for beginning hacks. However, most of the hacks do not provide suitable requirements to be even in the scrap box. No features section, no decent and thoughtful storyline, no hacking experience as in always wanting others to do the job for them.. That's against the rules( besides asking for help). That's what I dislike about these hacks. They post them, and no single experience is gained from hacking.

Again, I support your opinion, but we have different ones. :)

Hat?
November 7th, 2008, 09:03 AM
I agree that people posting hack ideas in the scrapbox should at least have some of the necessary experience and knowledge they need to pull off their ideas, plus of course some actual ideas that they have considered and revised properly, not just written down out of the blue.

Alot of them probably just give up after reading a single simple document about ROM hacking and request a game development company sized team to do it all for them. But the only thing is, if they get noticed, they're only going to get replies from similar beginners, you won't be in full control and everything will be sloppy.

Here's some advice to people starting out, for the type of people who want to make the standard "pokemon game i always dreamed of making" kind of ROM hack...

* You don't have to start off, or ever become overly technical or creative to create a decent ROM hack, just work hard.
* Don't post a thread until you have practised all the things that you think you'll need to do, for the kind of thing you want to do, read lots of documents, lurk in many forums.
* Don't rely on other people or large quantities of tools that perform little functions too much, try and get used to the things which are more versatile like a hex editor, and probably common GFX/layout tools like a uncompressed graphics editor, compressed graphics editor and a map editor!
* Plan out your storyline well, otherwise you might start realizing things don't seem very consistent when you play through.

The only way I think you could make it so that only people with some experience can post threads there, is if they were to send a short demo to a ROM hacking moderator, to show they're not just cluttering up the place.

Hiche..
November 7th, 2008, 02:16 PM
You got a point there, Hat!.
Also, your advice to beginning hackers, is good. I wish they will take it.

Melash
November 7th, 2008, 06:23 PM
I think that we should add more rules to the scrapbox. Now days, it just seems like a place for people to just randomly post about game ideas. I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but most of the 'hacks' in there aren't actually hacks, but just some quick ideas someone thought of. After all, just look in there if you don't believe me.

Anyway, as I said before, I think the moderators should stricter rules to the forum.

Sgt. Custard
November 23rd, 2008, 11:52 AM
Yes, but the whole point of the scrapbox, if you look at the description, is FOR you to jot down some ideas for a hack. It isn't for proper hack

Hiche..
November 24th, 2008, 08:28 AM
Since the rules are changed now, this thread is no longer in use.

Mods please close this.