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Renneh
November 26th, 2008, 02:22 PM
I decided to start a debate topic like was suggested in the debate forum topic...whether it is needed. so just so people know...this is a debate, keep it civilised. I searched to find a topic similar in the WHOLE of the forums but couldn't find one.


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Is suicide an acceptable way to die? What circumstances would be acceptable? Do we have a duty to ourselves/to others to continue living instead? Is suicide an act of selfishness? Or in some cases is it an act of bravery (self-sacrifice)?

In some traditional cultures such as in Japan before it was 'westernized' (not wholly but if you think of the traditional side of Japan) it was considered a duty to protect your family's honour by departing this world by your own hands, Just putting that there as example of a society where it was a duty to commit suicide.

Next question may seem obvious but why do people commit suicide?

If a person who was 'good' throughout their life but then committed suicide after a series of tragic events, would this counter out everything that was good about that person and make them feel they had let you down or others down by departing?


On the side, Should Euthanasia be legalized in -insert country name here- as we all live in different countries and I'm not sure which countries have it legalized and which don't? If so, in what circumstances should it be an option for example, when you have a terminal illness in which you will endure much pain and suffering before your death.

And I'm going to stop there as I'm about to give my opinion on some of these questions I've been thinking about and I can't take too long, I'm sure other questions will arise as the debate unfolds. I'll keep it brief for now because I haven't got alot of time.

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I do think we have a duty to ourselves to partake in this journey of life as thoroughly as one can. Therefore I do not believe suicide is an option. When considering suicide I would think to steer away from the idea of committing I would suggest someone think about the future. The far future, where no one knows what is going to happen but there is a possibility that whatever it is might bring about happiness. It is worth waiting for because happiness is an activity of the soul, which every soul has the right to experience. And this leads me to thinking we'd be selfish to steal this from ourselves.

But when it comes to self-sacrifice, for example if you had to allow yourself to be killed or kill yourself to save another person then obviously I deem this bravery. I'm not sure whether this is a human thing to do or maybe it is just possible for a few people to achieve. I think I could sacrifice myself for someone I love, but whether or not they'd want me to, no idea.. they probably wouldn't. You'd be stuck in an impossible dilemma over who should sacrifice themselves for the other? Very difficult decision and the circumstances might not leave you enough time to debate the matter.

I also think the decision to commit suicide should consider your duties as well. For example a duty to friends; to be there for them and make them happy. Or just simply a duty to a pet to not abandon him/her to take away your own pain.


I think people commit suicide when they are generally pessimistic (truthfully and wholly) and when their present life is an unhappy one. They put this above considering the future because it might be a happy one.

Or some people might be psychologically brainwashed to commit suicide for instance in cults. I think the cult leader then has the moral responsibility on their shoulders rather than the person however being brainwashed into a cult that believes in organized suicide might prove you to be a naive person in the first place. Also proves that one isn't very successful when it comes to reasoning for oneself.

Ah, my next question is difficult for me to decide on. Does a lifetime of good deeds justify your last 'bad' one? No because it is letting people down and defying your own behaviour that you've stood by your whole life so really it is letting yourself down more than anything. What could make a morally good person suddenly or gradually want to commit suicide?

I do think Euthanasia should be an available option for people with terminal illnesses, as long as the diagnosis is thoroughly checked and the person is of sound mind to still have the freewill to make this option then they should be allowed it.



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Sorry for any typos, try to address the debate throughout this topic rather than a person. By this I mean, talk about what the person is saying, not the person. Just something I always try to keep in mind.

eek, hope people participate, I think it is an interesting dilemma to discuss but that might be just me.

Honest
November 26th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Er....... I made a thread like this YESTERDAY!
I dont know if itll be closed or what, but i felt suicide dozens of time. I know its wrong, though

Renneh
November 26th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Er....... I made a thread like this YESTERDAY!
I dont know if itll be closed or what, but i felt suicide dozens of time. I know its wrong, though

I don't think you read anything in my first post. Your thread was asking people whether they have felt suicidal.

This is a debate on whether suicide is justifiable and tons of other angles on the suicide debate.

Honest
November 26th, 2008, 02:42 PM
Good point. LOLz. Sorry for attacking you like that. I still havent recovered. I got anger issues. But yeah, suicide is WRONG! But it cant be avoided, can it?

Sublime
November 26th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Well, being the strong Christian I am, I am totally against suicide. Because it's breaking the VI Commandment, Thou shall not murder. Suicide is self murder, and breaking a commandment right before you die is pretty much a one-way ticket to Hell.

Thats my religious view on suicide. But I have other views on it also.

I've had a very good friend of mine commit suicide. Me, his family, and all his other close friends had a very hard time getting our minds off of it.

Suicide is an act of selfishness. You're only thinking about how miserable YOUR life is when you commit suicide; you don't think of how miserable every one around you's will be.

Avey
November 26th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Suicide is okay and not okay depending on the situation, to put my views in a simple manner.

For instance; Joe is feeling depressed and feels he has no reason to live anymore. He's lost his job, he's failing school, he's succumbed to drugs and he feels there's no way out. No matter what his parents tell him, no matter how much support his friends offer him, he still thinks there's no light at the end of the tunnel. Because of this, he commits suicide. He ends his life. Was it worth it? No. He had plenty to live for. A lot of people who end of committing suicide have plenty to aim for; they just don't realise it. It's a terribly tragedy when someone has a view as wrong as that and no one tries hard enough to put it right. Suicide, in this case, is wrong.

I head about mass suicide a couple of years ago, somewhere in America, from my religion teacher. Apparently a cult were brainwashed into killing themselves in order to make it to Heaven. Although they believed they were doing the right thing, it still isn't okay. Anyone can figure out that if there is a God, he created us to live on earth, not to die for him. Someone needed to slap sense into those cult members and no one did it, which resulted in a catastrophe.

Every form of suicide is morally wrong in my opinion, as there's always light at the end of the tunnel, excluding one. My religion teacher showed us a video the other day, and it focused on a Jewish man who was captured by the Nazis and thrown into a concentration camp. Someone escaped from the man's dormitory, and my class learned that the punishment for someone escaping was the death of someone from that dormitory. There were three other people other than the Jewish man and they were going berserk. When it came to decision time, a soldier was asked to choose which one he wanted killed. He chose one of the three who were scared of dying, but the Jewish man raised his hand and offered his life instead of the chosen one's. The soldiers agreed and starved him to death. He gave up his life for another. Someone who feared death more than anything. That seems like a pretty just cause to me.

I don't know, maybe I'm just an optimist.

Virtual Chatot
November 26th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Well, being the strong Christian I am, I am totally against suicide. Because it's breaking the VI Commandment, Thou shall not murder. Suicide is self murder, and breaking a commandment right before you die is pretty much a one-way ticket to Hell.

I hope you do realize that in God's eyes, all sin is counted as the same, so whether you lie or you murder right before you die, it won't be stacked up any different?

Likewise, if you are a Christian, you'll still go to Heaven even if you do commit suicide, because nothing in the Bible states otherwise.

[/justpointinghimoutsomething,don'tgetallbentoutofshapeaboutitatheists]

Sublime
November 26th, 2008, 02:57 PM
I hope you do realize that in God's eyes, all sin is counted as the same, so whether you lie or you murder right before you die, it won't be stacked up any different?

Likewise, if you are a Christian, you'll still go to Heaven even if you do commit suicide, because nothing in the Bible states otherwise.

[/justpointinghimoutsomething,don'tgetallbentoutofshapeaboutitatheists]

Well that really depends on which type of Christian you are [Catholic, Methodist etc etc] some have different views than others. But that's a debate for another thread.

Obito.
November 26th, 2008, 03:03 PM
ive felt suicidal millions of times but im still here xD

Sublime
November 26th, 2008, 03:04 PM
ive felt suicidal millions of times but im still here xD

Well, this is about your views on suicide, not your suicidal thoughts. tell us why you think it's right or wrong.

Jorah
November 26th, 2008, 03:12 PM
If people are in such emotional or physical pain, that it would be a long lasting pain, it would be cruel to make them suffer if they do not want to keep on living. It would have to be quite severe though...and what's severe enough to want to kill yourself is an individual difference. I do not mean no one should help them, they should, but if they really want to, they can see no way out...I'm not sure.



I head about mass suicide a couple of years ago, somewhere in America, from my religion teacher. Apparently a cult were brainwashed into killing themselves in order to make it to Heaven. Although they believed they were doing the right thing, it still isn't okay. Anyone can figure out that if there is a God, he created us to live on earth, not to die for him. Someone needed to slap sense into those cult members and no one did it, which resulted in a catastrophe.

I take sociology so I'm a little picky here - you're talking about a sect, not a cult. A sect is more strict, such as joining a commune, set beliefs, rules, members ect. while a cult is something like believing in UFOs. You don't really join or have any commitment

If there is a God, do you really know his purpose for us being here? :P

Metatron
November 26th, 2008, 03:15 PM
...but it cant be avoided, can it?

...wtf, yes it can. Suicide isn't something that just happens. It can always be avoided, and it's a personal choice someone makes when they feel as if life is no longer worth living. So I'm not entirely sure where you were going with that just now.

Anyways, I'd rather not turn this into a religious argument, so keeping aside all personal beliefs(or lack of), I'm just gonna say that I think suicide is never a ethical answer to solving your problems. I don't understand it, and I probably never will. Even when things in life aren't going well for you, why would you resort to killing yourself instead of just trying to work things out to your advantage?

I've had sucky things happen in my life, but never once saw suicide as the appropriate solution to them. No offense, but anyone who thinks of suicide, even if they have no real intention of ever doing it, should probably go seek mental help =/

Avey
November 26th, 2008, 03:16 PM
I take sociology so I'm a little picky here - you're talking about a sect, not a cult. A sect is more strict, such as joining a commune, set beliefs, rules, members ect. while a cult is something like believing in UFOs. You don't really join or have any commitment

If there is a God, do you really know his purpose for us being here? :P

Oh, right. Thanks for pointing out the mistake. Good to know.

Well, I assume he wants us to live our lives out instead of sacrificing ourselves to him. You'd have to have self-esteem problems if you planted a huge sack of bones on a planet and expected them to kill themselves for you.

Angela
November 26th, 2008, 03:17 PM
I am weary much against suicide, nothing is that bad that taking your life is the only option, I mean there are doctors today that can help people, there are pills that can help you if you really feel that bad that you want to end your life, then I feel sorry for that person.

Another side to this is if the person is permanently sick and is dying and is in a great amount of pain, and wants to die, that brings up a whole other side to this, is suicide of that type right or wrong? Is it really a suicide if the doctor helps, or is it?

It can be understandable if someone tries suicide after losing there family, and wanting to join them in the after life, but I believe that the pain can pass and the person will then realise that it's pointless to take it's own life.

My opinion on suicide is that it's a sad topic, and I believe nothing *emotionally* is worth taking your life.

But if we are talking about a murderer or a rapist then I have a change of heart and really don't care what they do, and I won't feel sorry for them, if the murder was self defense then again my mind changes, nothing can justify a rape and I would probably be the one driving the rapist towards suicide, but I won't be doing that because I don't think that suicide is a answer to anything, unless we are talking about a person that is dying and is in pain.

Michii
November 26th, 2008, 03:59 PM
No size one fonts for the debate threads. :p

Suicide. My opinion is split seventy/thirty. The majority of my mind says it's completely unethical, while a small part calls out that it's unavoidable in some cases. Either way though? Not something I'd view as wise by any means.

Seventy. It's wrong wrong wrong! Many people today will see suicide as the "only way" to end pain. Well, it's not. It's a stupid, perminant solution to a temporary problem. We were put on Earth with feelings and thoughts. I believe many people just see suicide as an end to pain, but they don't realize that it's an end to their life. No matter how religious you are, you have to agree that we aren't 100% sure what's after death. If someone commits suicide, do you think they know if they're just gone? Hell? Something else? I think not. They're just using suicide as a way to end anguish; they don't see that they may not have opinions, or think for that matter. So many people blindly follow their own emotions to death.

A close friend of mine, for example, became depressed. He/she took pills to end it, but being under eighteen, he/she felt the side effects of feeling worse. One day, he/she decided to just end it, and took out a knife. Just then, his/her brother walked into the room, and the suicide never took place. He/she is perfectly happy now. Who's to say that anyone else can't get out of depression? Too many a person will commit suicide because they feel hurt or sad over something that won't matter in three years or so.


Thirty. Terminal cancer? Debilitating disease that leaves one unable to move or speak? Regret from a murder or something? Ok, I can get your point.

Many people don't want to die to cancer, so they take suicide. While I do believe in miracles and don't agree with this, I've never had a disease that is slowly killing me. On one episode of House I believe (or some tv hospital show), a woman was in a wheelchair with a slowly debiliating disease. Soon, she wouldn't be able to even speak. She attemted suicide, but failed. She became good friends with a doctor, and confided in her that she was going to do it again. The doctor was internally debating on whether or not to let the patient commit suicide, but in the end let her. Now, I would never want my quality of life diminished so much that I couldn't even feed myself, speak, go to the bathroom myself, or even move. I can see suicide as an option here.

Then there was that Nyc taser incident about a month ago. A many was ordered to taser a mentally ill naked man who was flipping out on a balcony. He did as told, and the man fell ten feet down, falling to his death. There was MUCHMUCHMUCH controversy about this, and so many things on the news. One morning I was getting ready for school while watching the news, and the news lady informed us that the police officer who had tasered the man had killed himself. I see his point here. He was in an unexcapable problem. News people following him around, fights erupting from his act, plus the fact of living day to day knowing he ended a life. His suicide seemed to be the only option. I can almost agree with it to a certain extent.

So while I believe suicide is stupid and should almost never happen, I can see why one would take their life. There are some situations where things are irreparable. And yet, there are some which can be fixed. I guess it all depends on the person in the end.

jasonresno
November 26th, 2008, 04:53 PM
No. Never.

For all of the families that lose their kids to wars, shot on the street, car accidents...what do you think they'd think of kids out there willingly ending their lives? No. If you are alive then cherish that. A lot of people use suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The only time I ever see suicide as a viable option is for the guy terminally ill and suffering every day beyond measure to finally pull the plug.

Chibi-chan
November 26th, 2008, 05:17 PM
If you haven't noticed, there's already a thread for this in this forum.

locked.