RBY + GSC > DPP + RSE

[Glitter Stain]

Ah, I've been questioned quite a few times, "Why do you like the old games better than the new ones? Nostalgia?" The answer is that is goes far beyond nostalgia. There are actually many, many reasons why the RBY and GSC generations are preferred for their simplicity and bliss.
Simple objectives without any tricky puzzles. If you have to look something up to be able to progress in a Pokemon game, other than how to progress past a cave, it's too difficult. RSE almost turned the games into Pokemon Puzzle League, especially with its puzzle for obtaining Regice, Regirock, and Registeel. DPP also had its fair share of puzzles -- such as how to "see" Dialga/Palkia.
You'll never drown. Hoenn is a sad region. It sunk to the bottom of the ocean long ago. They only recently managed to pull it out from the depths of the sea... it's still a bit wet, though. Having to surf for hours isn't fun, and neither is RSE.
Lavender and Pallet. In RBY, there were only two towns/cities that didn't have gyms. In GSC there were only three. Adding more of these is not replay value -- it's garbage. If you play all day for one day and you haven't even made it to Gardenia, something's wrong.
Contests Suck. Plain and simple; contests are plainly terrible and simply awful. They go from the 17 types to "Cool", "Cute", "Tough", "Smart", and "Beauty" which directly translate to: Violent, Pink, Fugly, Mental, and Boring.
The Time of Day (and Date) feature was wasted. There were so many daily and hourly events in GSC... where did they go? RSE took about 40 steps back, but DPP tried to rectify the issue. I don't want Drifloon, though, I want Lapras.
Fugly Pokemon. Please view my Fugly Pokemon thread for my views on this issue.
Traditional definitions. What defines a legendary, a baby Pokemon, a starter, and fun have all changed in the world of Pokemon. Since when can legendaries have babies at the Daycare? Since when do Baby Pokemon have different types from their parents? (Normal -> Water) Since when could Bayleef (not Chikorita, mind you) be caught? Since when is bad taste fun?
Bug Catching Contest and Safari Zone. Modern versions of these marvels (RSE Safari Zone and DPP Marsh) are far inferior to the originals. Who wants to go out of their way to catch a Pikachu?
EVs, Natures, 31 IVs, and Abilities. All of these things further complicated Competitive Pokemon and in-game Pokemon as well. Gengar is not a Flying-type, it should take damage from Earthquake. EVs make players train longer. Boring. Natures and IVs cause breeding mania and long-term depression.
Shorter Games. The shorter games actually provided more replay value... you knew you would have fun playing the game again and again because you wouldn't have to stop and train for hours just to get your Pokemon to level >9,000. The levels are very low in GSC (the first part) and that makes it so much more easy-going.
Nostalgia. Uh, yeah, duh.

[Anth0ny]

Agreed completely.

Also:

RBY: 8 badges.
GSC: 16 badges.

Okay, so now I'd assume 16 or more...

RSE:8 BADGES?!? FAIL!

[Glitter Stain]

Agreed completely.

Also:

RBY: 8 badges.
GSC: 16 badges.

Okay, so now I'd assume 16 or more...

RSE:8 BADGES?!? FAIL!
Ah, yes, RSE is just a giant step backwards from GSC... into a puddle.

[▲]

In two words: total crap. In many more words...


Catering to both the mindless and to the sharp eye is a trait that actually makes a good video game. There will be someone who looks up braille, whereas somewhere there will be someone who actually tries to decode it. They -do- give you the cipher (every braille letter), if I recall correctly...
That's just your opinion. I long for another Hoenn because its shift from land to sea near the end of the game is a salient VG concept--change of look with game progression. The backgrouns change with progress in a cheesy arcade game; in Hoenn, you get to take it to the sea. It is more mysterious and requires more adventure. Kanto and Johto were too formulaic...with the exception of the Whirl Islands thrown in there.
Uhh, the wrong thing is that you're either a flat out horrible player or you are extracurricularly training. It brings the world more to life when there are more towns/cities. Having few more than eight towns would make an unspoken rule like 'every town needs a Gym' or something like that. Name one town that did not better the overall 'painting' of the world. Hoenn, by the way, used those spare towns for Contest Halls and Battle Tents...
They're a change of pace. And I'll let you know--little kids love them. They get frustrated by some of the battle mechanics, but contests are pretty straightforward if you do not have access to SPP or a strategy guide.
More whining? Day/night is completely useless...it only creates frustration if you want a certain pkmn and getting it at a certain time conflicts with a schedule. Was Lapras on Fridays? It's a nice gimmick, but it and Drifloon are really unnecessary overall...
Apparently you don't appreciate pkmn that much. They are designed such that different ones will appeal to different players. I hate Weavile, but a friend of mine holds it as one of his favourites.
...of course these definitions have changed. They have became broader. Just because it is not so straightforward anymore is evidently your problem here...
Someone who wants a Pikachu? They are more places to explore...and, for the record, swamps with trains, how can you go wrong?
Again, more simplicity versus depth...no need to address that again.
Any gamer who wants their $30 worth is going to want a long game. Pkmn is not really intended to be reset; catching them all requires to keep a file and fly with it. Replayability value? Pkmn has none...
In eight years, if pkmn is still popular, people will point to the days of Team Magma and Team Aqua and ask what went wrong for us to end up with pk-trainer cross-fusions (it'l happen someday). Be happy with what we get. The old games had little to no story value in them; the new ones are not works of art, but they make an attempt at something that will at least keep you interested for a little while...a point beyond just beating the Elite Four. Breaking the formula--which GF does very marginally--is what pkmn needs. Form-chainging legendaries is a step in the proper direction.

[RaikaCastillo]

Pros and cons of RBY & GSC

Pros:
-Amusing Engrish
-Nostalgia
-Very few gimmicks
-Impossible to get lost. (except in places like Rock Tunnel, maybe)
-The magnet train (GSC)
-The radio (GSC)

Cons:
-Couldn't choose character's (this doesn't count against Crystal)
-Stripmined Viridian forest :( (GSC)

Pros and cons of RSE

Pros
-Treecko, Grovyle, and Sceptile
-The ability to go underwater
-Double Battles! W00t! I can train two pokes at once before obtaining an EXP share!
-I actually like surfing (except for the tentacools)


Cons
-The botched title screen song
-crashing of instruments in some of the music
-yes, contests are lame especially when the people you're in the contests with are cheaters.
-no more night and day :\
-your rival is too damn friendly


Pros and cons of DPP

Pros
-Night and day system is back
-Finally there's a snowy environment
-The Pal Park
-slightly more in depth plotline

Cons
-Mutant evolutions
-Bidoof
-overemphasis of wireless connection only features--okay this is cool if you actually have others nearby that have a copy of the game but it's useless otherwise
-contests are still lame and now there's a gimmick--dress clothes for your character. As if Dawn wasn't prissy looking enough. Seriously, I miss Crystal. Now we have a pirate kid with a hairstyle from outer space (May), a kid with a bucket on her head (FR/LG character), and now Dawn who wears rain boots with a miniskirt.
-Why did they give Skitty and Delicatty an ability that makes all moves function as if though they were of the normal type? Listen, people, if I had wanted my pokemon to know only Normal type moves I wouldn't have used the WaterPulse TM on it.

[Tanooki]

One of the things that bothered me about RSE (someone already pointed this out, but I'll state my opinion on it), is the rivals battles. In RBY and GSC, your rivals were actually tough trainers with strong Pokemon. Add to the fact that they usually showed up at the worst possible time, adding to the challange.

In RSE, on the other hand, both rivals (May/Brenden and Wally) are extremely weak. May/Brenden don't even evolve their starting Pokemon to it's final form! On the plus side with Wally, he does appear at the end of Victory Road with fairly strong Pokemon, and you can rebattle him at any time (which is great for training), but I overall thought the rival battles in RSE were extremely lame and poorly executed.

Aside from the other obvious mishaps of RSE (only eight gym battles, only one region, not all Pokemon available without trading with FR/LG, no day/night, etc.), the games were still fairly enjoyable for me. It was when DPP came out that my interest in Pokemon really took a hit. I just didn't enjoy those games at all.

[DonRoyale]

Oh, Mobile. You and your "omg, she said THAAAAAAT" moments.


Simple objectives without any tricky puzzles. If you have to look something up to be able to progress in a Pokemon game, other than how to progress past a cave, it's too difficult. RSE almost turned the games into Pokemon Puzzle League, especially with its puzzle for obtaining Regice, Regirock, and Registeel. DPP also had its fair share of puzzles -- such as how to "see" Dialga/Palkia.

Too difficult? Please. Sure, some puzzles were challenging, but that was an appealing point. I'd rather not go through the entire game monotonously raising Charmander so it can take on every challenge by itself. The game doesn't make caves for the sake of being a nice stroll through the region; there should be some "well, we'd let you go forward, but you know, if we let you do that, let's just fly you to the Indigo Plateau and give you 999 Rare Candies right now..." sign if it were like that.


You'll never drown. Hoenn is a sad region. It sunk to the bottom of the ocean long ago. They only recently managed to pull it out from the depths of the sea... it's still a bit wet, though. Having to surf for hours isn't fun, and neither is RSE.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. I'd like to say there were some points that made Hoenn enjoyable, but...no. Hoenn sucked. I'm sorry. Some of the Pokemon were good, but I hate Blaziken with a passion, because I've always had a passionate hate for Fire starters, and Blaziken made RSE so ridiculously and incredibly easy that I wanted to puke. I was ultimately disappointed by RSE in its entirety.


Lavender and Pallet. In RBY, there were only two towns/cities that didn't have gyms. In GSC there were only three. Adding more of these is not replay value -- it's garbage. If you play all day for one day and you haven't even made it to Gardenia, something's wrong.

Part of this was caused by the controversy against GSC that Johto was too small and needed Kanto to be any good (which I stand by). They beefed up the map, and while I agree that the amount of cities with no real value is absurd, I will say that the fact that in a day, if you've beaten a game, you either have no life, or the game was created poorly. (or you chose Torchic in RSE. Was that my outside voice?)


Contests Suck. Plain and simple; contests are plainly terrible and simply awful. They go from the 17 types to "Cool", "Cute", "Tough", "Smart", and "Beauty" which directly translate to: Violent, Pink, Fugly, Mental, and Boring.

In RSE, I enjoyed the contests, but in DPPt, they ruined them. My Weezing is b-eautiful, dammit! >.<


The Time of Day (and Date) feature was wasted. There were so many daily and hourly events in GSC... where did they go? RSE took about 40 steps back, but DPP tried to rectify the issue. I don't want Drifloon, though, I want Lapras.

Agreed. This is the argument that was thrown in my face all the time when I said that Johto had the content of a thistle; "But the time system made it so you could do sooo much!" Yeah, because I love the haircut I got my Alakazam, not that I'll ever see it.


Fugly Pokemon. Please view my Fugly Pokemon thread for my views on this issue.

Salamence and Garchomp would like to have a word with you. (Though I've already said this...regardless of how bad the art looks on many of the Pokemon in your list, the anime fixed them, or they just plain kick ass.)


Traditional definitions. What defines a legendary, a baby Pokemon, a starter, and fun have all changed in the world of Pokemon. Since when can legendaries have babies at the Daycare? Since when do Baby Pokemon have different types from their parents? (Normal -> Water) Since when could Bayleef (not Chikorita, mind you) be caught? Since when is bad taste fun?

Manaphy was simply an abomination that should never be referenced again, if not only for this reason. If you were going to make a legendary breed;
A) Make both the parent and the child cool-looking and individual;
B) Make the child evolve into the parent, if not only to cross-introduce concepts.

Bad taste is fun, Mobile; look at all the people who wear Hollister >.>


Bug Catching Contest and Safari Zone. Modern versions of these marvels (RSE Safari Zone and DPP Marsh) are far inferior to the originals. Who wants to go out of their way to catch a Pikachu?

Again, I agree with you on this. Why bother with Pastoria when
A) all of its Pokemon are UU or bad OU/BL, and;
B) Chansey has a ridiculously easy catch method?


EVs, Natures, 31 IVs, and Abilities. All of these things further complicated Competitive Pokemon and in-game Pokemon as well. Gengar is not a Flying-type, it should take damage from Earthquake. EVs make players train longer. Boring. Natures and IVs cause breeding mania and long-term depression.

NO!
If EV's, IV's, natures and abilities weren't involved in the competitive field, the metagame would lose one of its key factors; the element of suprise. The ability to come into a battle with a properly natured, properly EV'd Pokemon with a specific set for doing such a task, and being able to mask it without making a move is what makes it so fun. I mean, if you take out all those things, not only does nearly every Ground-type rule the metagame (like Psychics did in RBY lest we forget), but one move = your entire moveset and plan is predicted.


Shorter Games. The shorter games actually provided more replay value... you knew you would have fun playing the game again and again because you wouldn't have to stop and train for hours just to get your Pokemon to level >9,000. The levels are very low in GSC (the first part) and that makes it so much more easy-going.

Until you hit a 23-level gap when you reach Red.

I stated this earlier; if you've beaten a game with a $40 price tag in less than 24 hours, you should have your $40 and your 24 hours back. This is a taste thing, because I'm sure you enjoy beating games at a bullet-like pace, but there are some people who enjoy putting an effort through to beat a game. It helps with something called a sense of accomplishment.


Nostalgia. Uh, yeah, duh.

My nostalgia is attached purely to Blue Version, as it was the first I ever played. I'm sure GSC is attached to people for this very reason. To you I say pah; you're a bit late to ride our gravy train. Try to see both sides of the arguments made against your cause. I can understand when people say that RBY Geodude looked like a floating brain. For all I care, I'll be sure to remember that when I nickname mine "Andross" :P

But GSC needed Kanto, sorry (N)

[Haza]

Actually in my opinion the pokemon games of today are fare more up to speed if you ask me. If there were not EVs and abilities then it would be far too predictable and wack. I think the games of today are perfect and I love each pokemon to date(in their own ways)

[Gary, the Magic Fairy]

I couldn't agree more.

1. I KNOW. Some of the puzzles are just plain annoying, and add nothing fun. I mean seriously, did ANYONE have fun with Candice's Gym? And wtf was up with the Regi puzzles? Simple riddles would've been more than enough to provide the effect, we didn't need riddles we have to translate first.

2. Tentacool every 5 steps while surfing = fail. But having that much surfing really makes it so much worse.

3. Pallet was useless, but then again, all starting towns are. Lavender had a deep, yet uncomplicated history that was emotional and delightfully creepy. It made me feel bad for the people who had lost their pokemon.

4. Agreed.

5. I was SO disappointed about the lack of day and night. It was one of the things that really made me feel like I was part of the game.
Off this topic, but the newer games have gotten so ridiculous with their "OMG END OF THE WORLD" plots that try to top each other every generation. It really makes it hard to imagine you are actually the character, since it's all just crazy and predictable.

6. Yeah, alot of the pokemon have gotten fugly, but this isn't really my biggest issue.

7. This doesn't bother me too much, but I agree that most of it was unneeded.

8. The marsh annoyed me so much. I don't like going on the stupid train. It's not needed and seems totally out of place. Why would you have a train in a marsh? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. It and the RSE Safari Zone are also really dull. :\

9. OMG YES. Having all these exceptions to types that should work is just confusing. And I would have more fun trading pokemon if everyone didn't ask "LOL What nature is it?" How should I know? There was nothing wrong with the way pokemon training was in GSC.

10. Really? GSC were the longest games I ever played. But long in a good way, not the dragging on forever like in DPP.

11. I think I would still feel this way if I had played RSE or DPP first. Although I do like them because they were my first games, I honestly feel this way, it's not just whining because it's different.

[Lightning]

While I agree on the sense that I enjoyed RBYGSC more than their successors... I don't agree with much of your reasoning at all. XD;
Simple objectives without any tricky puzzles. [/B]If you have to look something up to be able to progress in a Pokemon game, other than how to progress past a cave, it's too difficult. RSE almost turned the games into Pokemon Puzzle League, especially with its puzzle for obtaining Regice, Regirock, and Registeel. DPP also had its fair share of puzzles -- such as how to "see" Dialga/Palkia.
The tricky puzzles weren't part of the required part. It was a fun extra you could do. I actually loved it; it made the game "smarter". You couldn't get through it if you were an idiot and even if you looked up the answers (I had a guide XD), it was still interesting. As for DPP, how is reading a book (was that what you had to do?) a puzzle? If you're totally rushing through the game, yeah it wouldn't be obvious, but I talk to everyone and examine everything new when I play a game so... I never had the problem. o_O
You'll never drown. Hoenn is a sad region. It sunk to the bottom of the ocean long ago. They only recently managed to pull it out from the depths of the sea... it's still a bit wet, though. Having to surf for hours isn't fun, and neither is RSE.
Well, I've got to agree somewhat there, but considering the entire region is based on an actual oceanic/island area in Japan, it makes sense. While I hate surfing, I at least liked the idea of having a very port-based region where everything is based around the sea.
Lavender and Pallet. In RBY, there were only two towns/cities that didn't have gyms. In GSC there were only three. Adding more of these is not replay value -- it's garbage. If you play all day for one day and you haven't even made it to Gardenia, something's wrong.
...how is it wrong? ._.; It's adding in more playtime. I bet if you could get halfway through the game in one day, you'd be complaining. I certainly don't want to play $40 for a short game. So long as they aren't making you backtrack over and over and over (Pokémon Ranger I'm looking at you), it's not that big a deal. You're just getting more playtime for your money.
Contests Suck. Plain and simple; contests are plainly terrible and simply awful. They go from the 17 types to "Cool", "Cute", "Tough", "Smart", and "Beauty" which directly translate to: Violent, Pink, Fugly, Mental, and Boring.
...so... don't... do them? I thought they were a cute addition. Nothing terribly serious and I'd prefer contests over Battle Towers anyday. It's not like they're forced, either.
The Time of Day (and Date) feature was wasted. There were so many daily and hourly events in GSC... where did they go? RSE took about 40 steps back, but DPP tried to rectify the issue. I don't want Drifloon, though, I want Lapras.
Okay, I definitely agree here. ;_; I MISSED TIME OF DAY SO HARD. I'm so glad they brought back obvious changes between night and day and twilight. I wish there were more day-of-the-week specific events though. DD: I thought those daily siblings were awesome in GSC. And the people in the Goldenrod Underground. More like that please!
Fugly Pokemon. Please view my Fugly Pokemon thread for my views on this issue.
I think I've addressed this in the other thread. Probopass is awesome go away. ;_;
Traditional definitions. What defines a legendary, a baby Pokemon, a starter, and fun have all changed in the world of Pokemon. Since when can legendaries have babies at the Daycare? Since when do Baby Pokemon have different types from their parents? (Normal -> Water) Since when could Bayleef (not Chikorita, mind you) be caught? Since when is bad taste fun?
...This just kinda seems like a nostalgia, "I hate change grrr" kind of thing. :/ You don't even touch upon the annoying part of legendaries. I hope it's addressed below.
Bug Catching Contest and Safari Zone. Modern versions of these marvels (RSE Safari Zone and DPP Marsh) are far inferior to the originals. Who wants to go out of their way to catch a Pikachu?
While I definitely miss the Bug Catching Contest, I don't really have a problem with the Safari Zone. It's more interesting now and enforces the "some Pokémon are rare idea. Pikachu's supposed to only be native to Viridian Forest or something, so obviously it's gonna be hard to find in other regions where they have to import them to their Safari Zones.
EVs, Natures, 31 IVs, and Abilities. All of these things further complicated Competitive Pokemon and in-game Pokemon as well. Gengar is not a Flying-type, it should take damage from Earthquake. EVs make players train longer. Boring. Natures and IVs cause breeding mania and long-term depression.
...you don't notice it at all if you aren't a competitive battler and if you are, well, I haven't seen anyone else complaining about it; it adds a lot more strategy to competitive play. I'm not really into it myself (I'll pay attention to nature and ability but that's about it), but I appreciate how complex it can be all the same.
Shorter Games. The shorter games actually provided more replay value... you knew you would have fun playing the game again and again because you wouldn't have to stop and train for hours just to get your Pokemon to level >9,000. The levels are very low in GSC (the first part) and that makes it so much more easy-going.
Yeah, but if I'm paying $45~50 for a handheld game, I don't wanna play 20 hours. I can't play it again right away or else I'll be sick of it so I'd much rather play a 40 to 50-hour game and then play it again when the "third" game comes out. While I don't like the plots, I do like the amount of time I have to put into the game; it feels right.
Nostalgia. Uh, yeah, duh.
Agreed.

Kay yeah you didn't touch upon the point that makes me dislike these games and that's the Legendaries. There are too many. Diamond and Pearl has like 15 all on its own or something. That's ridiculous. They aren't rare, amazing, "OH MY GOD I HAVE TO HAVE THAT" Pokémon anymore, they're all over the damn place. :\ I just find it's overkill and that ruins the fun. (Plus I hate the fact that legendaries are so tied into the plot but I'm in the minority with that one, I think.)

[Guitar God in Training]

How can you complain about contests? They are OPTIONAL. If you don't like them, don't enter them.
Nintendo only added to the gameplay of RBY/GSC, nothing was taken away. How is it possible that so many people prefer the older games. There are less Pokemon, less attacks, no natures, no abilities and the only thing you could do was level up and beat gyms. there was nothing to do after catching Mewtwo or beating Red other than completing your pokedex and training more pokemon for no reason.
RSE/DPP have so much more than the originals, both before and after the elite 4.
All of the new features are optional, so if you don't want to do them don't do them.

If you ignore the storyline and the extra features then you'll notice that DPP is actually exactly the same as RBY with more pokemon, more attacks and more areas to explore.

Therefore, in my opinion, RSE + DPP > RBY + GSC.

Also, more legendaries = more pokemon which are actually difficult to catch = more time playing game.
I love catching the legendary pokemon as it takes more strategy than catching regular pokemon, I especially love chasing the roaming legendaries. The only part I hate about legendaries is finding the roaming ones for the first time, a feature which was removed in DPP.

I also had fun with all the gyms in RSE and DPP, what's the point in just walking up to the gym leader and challenging them? A gym leader shouldn't have to accept everyones challenges so they only accept challenges from the trainers who actually manage to get to them.

[Lightning]

Nintendo only added to the gameplay of RBY/GSC, nothing was taken away. How is it possible that so many people prefer the older games.
A fair bit was taken from GSC when they created R/S. Yeah, you set the time but there were no timed events, they pretty much got rid of night and day, they dropped the phone call system (and brought it back worse in Emerald), and they got rid of Pokémon animations until Emerald which seemed really stupid to me. :/ Not to mention GSC was the only game to let you go back to previous regions which added a lot of extra gameplay. This affection toward the earlier generation isn't entirely unfounded.
Also, more legendaries = more pokemon which are actually difficult to catch = more time playing game.
I love catching the legendary pokemon as it takes more strategy than catching regular pokemon, I especially love chasing the roaming legendaries. The only part I hate about legendaries is finding the roaming ones for the first time, a feature which was removed in DPP.
...except it doesn't require THAT much more strategy. o_O; Besides from being really, really annoying in the sense that it takes forever to catch it because they practically repel pokéballs, there's no real challenge to me. Not to mention there are like 15 of them. I dunno but I'd much rather play GSC and get to go through another region to add to my Pokédex and gather more badges rather than trek through a bunch of extra caves just to catch a Pokémon that doesn't even seem very special. (I don't care how strong a legendary might be--when I'm on my way to get my 6th one of the game, the magic's lost. Period.)

[Mitchman]

Im sorry but your wrong.
For me its gsc+dppt+rby>rse. That region should have left alone

[YOOM-TAH]

Then go away from these forums and play your crappy old games that you can beat in an hour and never play again.

New gens are so much better than the old ones it's not even funny.

Your reason #9 is so ****ing dumb I can't even begin to explain how much I am laughing at you. The whole reason they put in abilities is so things MAKE SENSE. Gengar is not a flying type, but he is a FRIGGIN GHOST! How does an Earthquake hurt him when he can FLOAT? Oh, but I understand that this is too complicated for you get wrap your simple mind around.

The metagame is balanced now. Before, it was unbalanced and unfun. Things didn't make sense. Dragon type was useless as it had one move that only did 40 damage. Psychic type destroyed everything. To say that the metagame is worse now than it was is just ****ing STUPID.

You remind me of a narrow-minded old man questioning why things aren't the same as when he grew up. Why, what are all these electronic doohickeys? When I was a kid all we had were sticks and rocks to entertain us! Since when did black people gain rights and start marrying white people? Man things are just too complicated nowadays, I like to live in my own little 12-year old world when things were simpler.



(Now mods, go ahead and warn me).

[Banjora Marxvile]

Whilst I love GSC more than DPP, all the reasons you listed aren't really persuasive and to be honest, all of them aren't good reasons. Who cares about Manaphy eing breedable? Also, your argument about Safari Zone was a bit wasted too. True that the Bug Catching Contest was good, but saying that Safari Zone is rubbish isn't necessary. Also, DPP are quite short too. Took me about 2 days (argue if you want, I don't care.). You class seeing Dialga or palkia in a book a puzzle? Its going to be a bit obvious where it is.

Also, most of your reasons are opinions, so I can't really judge. You can't really say that DPP and RSE were rubbish though.

[Callandor]

This is one of the few thereds bad mouthing pokemon that i agree with. RSE and DPP have thier good points, but RBY and GSC are the best.

[YOOM-TAH]

Oh, and saying you like the first gens better is one thing. Saying they're better is another thing (stupid), and agreeing with the reasons listed here is just short of complete cerebral failure.

[carter756978]

Since when can u catch bayleef in RSE or DPP?

[YOOM-TAH]

You can't. He's just a complete idiot. And he thinks the "puzzles" are too hard. LOL

[Anth0ny]

Oh, and saying you like the first gens better is one thing. Saying they're better is another thing (opinion), and agreeing with the reasons listed here is still opinion.

Fixed.

There's nothing wrong with saying that the first two gens are better than the most recent two. Nothing.

[Ikwaylx]

One thing about Pokemon DPP really gets on my nerves..

Slow battle pace.

Pokemon R/B/G/Y, G/S/C and /R/S/E all have a good battle pace which makes them fun and exciting. The battle animations are simple, but are still fun to look at while I destroy that Caterpie.
In comes Diamond and Pearl, I've noticed a small delay between most actions. This minor pause between a move being used, a move causing damage, the HP bar going down, a Pokemon fainting, a pokemon coming out of it's ball and more is enough to slow battles down to the point where I become bored. Lemme give you an example.

You're fighting a Bidoof at the beginning of the game. At this point your only options for your pokemon are:
Scratch
Leer
Tackle
Growl
Pound
Use your stat lowering attack once, and then proceed to Scratch/tackle/pound it to oblivion.
Notice how long it takes to defeat it? It's just a Bidoof, but it faints in a way longer time than it did to faint a Ratatta in pokemon Red. These pauses are the main blame.

I have noticed that Platinium speeds up the pace a little, and that's always a good thing. I'm welcome for it, but it still feels a little slow with the videos I saw.

That's my opinion anyway, thanks for reading.

[YOOM-TAH]

Fixed.

There's nothing wrong with saying that the first two gens are better than the most recent two. Nothing.

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with saying George W. Bush was a better president than John F. Kennedy. Just an opinion. Sure, anything that's actually measurable points in favor of JFK, but it's still an opinion, right?

[PorygonSquared]

GSC had the Ice Path, and you call that not tricky? Or how about Sabrina's Gym? Or the incredibly luck-based Lt. Surge's Gym? And EV's and IV's have existed since the very first game, merely getting revamped in RSE. A lot of the other stuff are just minor changes that the fandom somehow takes seriously, and the new Pokemon are definitely not ugly!

The changes are actually good, in my opinion, and they manage to keep things fresh. The two new elements and Special Atk/Def split in G/S helped balance the types better, the addition of abilities in R/S added a whole new layer in choosing the right Pokemon, and the Physical/Special move split in D/P opened up new doors for a lot of previously ignored Pokemon.

[YOOM-TAH]

GSC had the Ice Path, and you call that not tricky? Or how about Sabrina's Gym? Or the incredibly luck-based Lt. Surge's Gym? And EV's and IV's have existed since the very first game, merely getting revamped in RSE. A lot of the other stuff are just minor changes that the fandom somehow takes seriously, and the new Pokemon are definitely not ugly!

The changes are actually good, in my opinion, and they manage to keep things fresh. The two new elements and Special Atk/Def split in G/S helped balance the types better, the addition of abilities in R/S added a whole new layer in choosing the right Pokemon, and the Physical/Special move split in D/P opened up new doors for a lot of previously ignored Pokemon.

Whoa man, don't you understand! That's all too complex! Change is bad! Since when does pokemon have to be something other than me killing things with my Charizard's Fire Blast? And since when does every pokemon that gets made past me being the age of 10 suck so bad? Geez things were so much simpler and better when I was 8 years old!

[Ikwaylx]

Whoa man, don't you understand! That's all too complex! Change is bad! Since when does pokemon have to be something other than me killing things with my Charizard's Fire Blast? And since when does every pokemon that gets made past me being the age of 10 suck so bad? Geez things were so much simpler and better when I was 8 years old!People have their opinions, it's no good saying things like that just because some person doesn't like the changes made during the generations. Let people think what they want.

[RaikaCastillo]

Your reason #9 is so ****ing dumb I can't even begin to explain how much I am laughing at you. The whole reason they put in abilities is so things MAKE SENSE. Gengar is not a flying type, but he is a FRIGGIN GHOST! How does an Earthquake hurt him when he can FLOAT? Oh, but I understand that this is too complicated for you get wrap your simple mind around.

Good point but there is something about the abilities that has always irked me

Why the fuggems can I not Earthquake a Vibrava when he's UNDERGROUND?! He's in the friggin' ground, dang it!

And you have to admit that some of the abilities just don't make sense like the Normalize and Klutz abilities. The reason they do not make sense is that they defeat the purpose of stuff that was established before abilities were invented

Normalize: There has always been more than one type and just because a pokemon wasn't the type that a certain move was didn't mean it couldn't learn that move. In other words, a Normal type could learn a Water type move and use it as a Water type move! It wouldn't have STAB but it could still use the move and have a better chance against that pesky Geodude. The Normalize causes all a pokemon's moves regardless of what type they are to function as if they were Normal types. WHAT THE HELL?!

Klutz: Okay......so it doesn't allow the pokemon to use the item that it's holding?

Yoom Tah, if you can explain the logic of these two abilities, PLEASE do. I can then stop busting my fuggin' brain trying to figure out something that seems daft.
---------------------------------------------------
And yes, I realize that you weren't talking to me, you were talking to Glitter Stain but I refuse to believe that anyone would see the logic in either of those two moves.

[Anth0ny]

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with saying George W. Bush was a better president than John F. Kennedy. Just an opinion. Sure, anything that's actually measurable points in favor of JFK, but it's still an opinion, right?

Damn right it is.

Also, in things that are actually measurable, I'm sure that many would give props to GSC over RSE, and probably even DP. The amount of awesome things taken out of RSE that were in GSC is just retarted.

So yeah, it's really not all that crazy that people actually think that the first two gens are better than the most recent two. Competitively? Of course I'd gave that honor to DP. But on the whole, I'd say that the first 2 gens are better games then the most recent two.

But my opinion is wrong, right? Derp.

[YOOM-TAH]

Good point but there is something about the abilities that has always irked me

Why the fuggems can I not Earthquake a Vibrava when he's UNDERGROUND?! He's in the friggin' ground, dang it!

And you have to admit that some of the abilities just don't make sense like the Normalize and Klutz abilities. The reason they do not make sense is that they defeat the purpose of stuff that was established before abilities were invented

Normalize: There has always been more than one type and just because a pokemon wasn't the type that a certain move was didn't mean it couldn't learn that move. In other words, a Normal type could learn a Water type move and use it as a Water type move! It wouldn't have STAB but it could still use the move and have a better chance against that pesky Geodude. The Normalize causes all a pokemon's moves regardless of what type they are to function as if they were Normal types. WHAT THE HELL?!

Klutz: Okay......so it doesn't allow the pokemon to use the item that it's holding?

Yoom Tah, if you can explain the logic of these two abilities, PLEASE do. I can then stop busting my fuggin' brain trying to figure out something that seems daft.
---------------------------------------------------
And yes, I realize that you weren't talking to me, you were talking to Glitter Stain but I refuse to believe that anyone would see the logic in either of those two moves.

Well in Normalize, that means any move Skitty and Delcatty use are STAB. Which is pretty sweet.

And with Klutz, keep in mind that not every ability is there to help. (Also, only an idiot would use a Buneary/Lopunny with that ability instead of Run Away/Cute Charm). Slow Start for Regigigas is a terrible ability. The abilities have more to do with the actual pokemon's traits than helping the pokemon out.

[LugiaFreak]

Pokemon R/B/G/Y, G/S/C and /R/S/E all have a good battle pace which makes them fun and exciting. The battle animations are simple, but are still fun to look at while I destroy that Caterpie.
In comes Diamond and Pearl, I've noticed a small delay between most actions. This minor pause between a move being used, a move causing damage, the HP bar going down, a Pokemon fainting, a pokemon coming out of it's ball and more is enough to slow battles down to the point where I become bored.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. I was almost done with Sapphire when I got Diamond, so I was switching between the two a lot. That delay is annoying, especially if there's a weak Pokemon that you're unable to run from, so you have to make it faint, but then doing so takes like 5 minutes anyway. :\

[Ikwaylx]

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. I was almost done with Sapphire when I got Diamond, so I was switching between the two a lot. That delay is annoying, especially if there's a weak Pokemon that you're unable to run from, so you have to make it faint, but then doing so takes like 5 minutes anyway. :\Don't even get me started when you're in Hail or Sandstorms..

[Aegis]

Whoa man, don't you understand! That's all too complex! Change is bad! Since when does pokemon have to be something other than me killing things with my Charizard's Fire Blast? And since when does every pokemon that gets made past me being the age of 10 suck so bad? Geez things were so much simpler and better when I was 8 years old!

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with saying George W. Bush was a better president than John F. Kennedy. Just an opinion. Sure, anything that's actually measurable points in favor of JFK, but it's still an opinion, right?

You can't. He's just a complete idiot. And he thinks the "puzzles" are too hard. LOL

Oh, and saying you like the first gens better is one thing. Saying they're better is another thing (stupid), and agreeing with the reasons listed here is just short of complete cerebral failure.

Then go away from these forums and play your crappy old games that you can beat in an hour and never play again.

New gens are so much better than the old ones it's not even funny.

Your reason #9 is so ****ing dumb I can't even begin to explain how much I am laughing at you. The whole reason they put in abilities is so things MAKE SENSE. Gengar is not a flying type, but he is a FRIGGIN GHOST! How does an Earthquake hurt him when he can FLOAT? Oh, but I understand that this is too complicated for you get wrap your simple mind around.

The metagame is balanced now. Before, it was unbalanced and unfun. Things didn't make sense. Dragon type was useless as it had one move that only did 40 damage. Psychic type destroyed everything. To say that the metagame is worse now than it was is just ****ing STUPID.

You remind me of a narrow-minded old man questioning why things aren't the same as when he grew up. Why, what are all these electronic doohickeys? When I was a kid all we had were sticks and rocks to entertain us! Since when did black people gain rights and start marrying white people? Man things are just too complicated nowadays, I like to live in my own little 12-year old world when things were simpler.



(Now mods, go ahead and warn me).

I really hate to write people out publicly in a thread like this, but really, chill out. All of the posts I've quoted above are rude and insulting to one member or another, just because you don't agree with what they say doesn't mean it's "stupid" or they're narrow minded or anything. And that post with the presidential talk, what was that about? Totally off topic, even if you were using it as a comparison.

I hope you realize that there's enough rule-breakage here for me to have good reason to ban you, but I'm going to let you off with just a warning and two infractions (And who knows, that might ban you anyway, I haven't looked at your current infractions yet). It'd be in your best interest to read the rules, and think through your posts before posting in the future.

I have a feeling you'll have something to say about this, so take it up with me in PM's please, not by posting here again. Thanks~

[Gyroh]

All right, maybe you pointed out some things. But I actually enjoyed RSE more than the RBY and GSC. Every newer game is made more enjoyable and I would like to play the DPP generation, though I don't own a DS or the games.

This what I enyojed most of RSE:

1. Cool new Pokémons
2. Improved graphics
3. The introduction of abilities
4. Natures and my discovery of the existance of EVs (feels like regular RPGs where you choose what stats to increase on your character)
5. Running Shoes (walking was annoying early in the first 2 gens)
6. Easier management of the boxes in the PC
7. More sections in bag (Items, Poké Balls, TMs & HMs, Berries, Key Items)
8. New moves (more movesets available)
9. Mach Bike
10. New Map
11. Good Story
12. Secret bases and the ability to save a friend's character and his secret base in your game.
13. Double Battles
14. Cool challenges (Silver Shield, Golden Shield, Pidgeotto Statue, Red Tent, etc.)
15. Battle Tower

And probably many more things I missed out.

What the new DPP gn has that I wished RSE had was all of the new attacks and changes on physical and special attacking moves. Now we can have water, ice, electric physical attacks and normal, poison, and fighting special attacks. Maybe I would like the new evolutions too, but just the new evolutions from Pokémons of the previous generations.

[Glitter Stain]

Oh, Mobile. You and your "omg, she said THAAAAAAT" moments.



Too difficult? Please. Sure, some puzzles were challenging, but that was an appealing point. I'd rather not go through the entire game monotonously raising Charmander so it can take on every challenge by itself. The game doesn't make caves for the sake of being a nice stroll through the region; there should be some "well, we'd let you go forward, but you know, if we let you do that, let's just fly you to the Indigo Plateau and give you 999 Rare Candies right now..." sign if it were like that.

Difficult isn't the word I was looking for... more like time-consuming. (Play time =/= Replayability, and unwanted play time only leads to the opportunity for replayability vanishing.)

This I agree with wholeheartedly. I'd like to say there were some points that made Hoenn enjoyable, but...no. Hoenn sucked. I'm sorry. Some of the Pokemon were good, but I hate Blaziken with a passion, because I've always had a passionate hate for Fire starters, and Blaziken made RSE so ridiculously and incredibly easy that I wanted to puke. I was ultimately disappointed by RSE in its entirety.

Ha, well, that point was a bit more about the water in Hoenn, but w/e. 8D

Part of this was caused by the controversy against GSC that Johto was too small and needed Kanto to be any good (which I stand by). They beefed up the map, and while I agree that the amount of cities with no real value is absurd, I will say that the fact that in a day, if you've beaten a game, you either have no life, or the game was created poorly. (or you chose Torchic in RSE. Was that my outside voice?)

Johto may have needed Kanto... but it alone is still a whole hell of a lot better than Sinnoh or Hoenn.

As for play time, Floaroma, Jubilife, and Verdanturf could all have easily had gyms. (And they could have had more gyms anyway... there was no established pattern until RSE)

Manaphy was simply an abomination that should never be referenced again, if not only for this reason. If you were going to make a legendary breed;
A) Make both the parent and the child cool-looking and individual;
B) Make the child evolve into the parent, if not only to cross-introduce concepts.

Bad taste is fun, Mobile; look at all the people who wear Hollister >.>

Hollister isn't bad taste, lol. 8D

NO!
If EV's, IV's, natures and abilities weren't involved in the competitive field, the metagame would lose one of its key factors; the element of suprise. The ability to come into a battle with a properly natured, properly EV'd Pokemon with a specific set for doing such a task, and being able to mask it without making a move is what makes it so fun. I mean, if you take out all those things, not only does nearly every Ground-type rule the metagame (like Psychics did in RBY lest we forget), but one move = your entire moveset and plan is predicted.

They're fine with Shoddy... but I'm never going to spend longer than an hour or two on each Pokemon on a team. It's just a general waste of time otherwise.

Until you hit a 23-level gap when you reach Red.

I stated this earlier; if you've beaten a game with a $40 price tag in less than 24 hours, you should have your $40 and your 24 hours back. This is a taste thing, because I'm sure you enjoy beating games at a bullet-like pace, but there are some people who enjoy putting an effort through to beat a game. It helps with something called a sense of accomplishment.

Red is generally considered an Easter Egg. Fun to battle, but not everyone does. (By the way... I beat Red with a team of lvl 58-65, he's not that hard.)
[/list]

While I agree on the sense that I enjoyed RBYGSC more than their successors... I don't agree with much of your reasoning at all. XD;

Well, I've got to agree somewhat there, but considering the entire region is based on an actual oceanic/island area in Japan, it makes sense. While I hate surfing, I at least liked the idea of having a very port-based region where everything is based around the sea.

...how is it wrong? ._.; It's adding in more playtime. I bet if you could get halfway through the game in one day, you'd be complaining. I certainly don't want to play $40 for a short game. So long as they aren't making you backtrack over and over and over (Pokémon Ranger I'm looking at you), it's not that big a deal. You're just getting more playtime for your money.
Yeah, as I said in response to L, many of those cities oculd have easily been given gyms... but they weren't.
...This just kinda seems like a nostalgia, "I hate change grrr" kind of thing. :/ You don't even touch upon the annoying part of legendaries. I hope it's addressed below.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about how abominable all of the new legendaries are... but I think that could be easily covered under "Fugly Pokemon".
While I definitely miss the Bug Catching Contest, I don't really have a problem with the Safari Zone. It's more interesting now and enforces the "some Pokémon are rare idea. Pikachu's supposed to only be native to Viridian Forest or something, so obviously it's gonna be hard to find in other regions where they have to import them to their Safari Zones.
I like the Safari Zone... it's just the RSE Safari Zone I have a problem with. Why would you make a bunch of sub-par Pokemon so rare?
...you don't notice it at all if you aren't a competitive battler and if you are, well, I haven't seen anyone else complaining about it; it adds a lot more strategy to competitive play. I'm not really into it myself (I'll pay attention to nature and ability but that's about it), but I appreciate how complex it can be all the same.
Pokemon doesn't need to be as complex as it is.
Yeah, but if I'm paying $45~50 for a handheld game, I don't wanna play 20 hours. I can't play it again right away or else I'll be sick of it so I'd much rather play a 40 to 50-hour game and then play it again when the "third" game comes out. While I don't like the plots, I do like the amount of time I have to put into the game; it feels right.

Agreed.

Kay yeah you didn't touch upon the point that makes me dislike these games and that's the Legendaries. There are too many. Diamond and Pearl has like 15 all on its own or something. That's ridiculous. They aren't rare, amazing, "OH MY GOD I HAVE TO HAVE THAT" Pokémon anymore, they're all over the damn place. :\ I just find it's overkill and that ruins the fun. (Plus I hate the fact that legendaries are so tied into the plot but I'm in the minority with that one, I think.)

How can you complain about contests? They are OPTIONAL. If you don't like them, don't enter them.
Nintendo only added to the gameplay of RBY/GSC, nothing was taken away. How is it possible that so many people prefer the older games. There are less Pokemon, less attacks, no natures, no abilities and the only thing you could do was level up and beat gyms. there was nothing to do after catching Mewtwo or beating Red other than completing your pokedex and training more pokemon for no reason.
RSE/DPP have so much more than the originals, both before and after the elite 4.
All of the new features are optional, so if you don't want to do them don't do them.

If you ignore the storyline and the extra features then you'll notice that DPP is actually exactly the same as RBY with more pokemon, more attacks and more areas to explore.
More attacks? Yes. But Stealth Rock is an example of how awful most of them are... not as in not useful, but as in they completely ruined the metagame.

Therefore, in my opinion, RSE + DPP > RBY + GSC.

Also, more legendaries = more pokemon which are actually difficult to catch = more time playing game.
More time wasted... The point of a game isn't to be a pain in the ass, it's to have fun. .-.
I love catching the legendary pokemon as it takes more strategy than catching regular pokemon, I especially love chasing the roaming legendaries. The only part I hate about legendaries is finding the roaming ones for the first time, a feature which was removed in DPP.

Im sorry but your wrong.
For me its gsc+dppt+rby>rse. That region should have left alone
Ha, fair enough! 8DD
Then go away from these forums and play your crappy old games that you can beat in an hour and never play again.

New gens are so much better than the old ones it's not even funny.
No, it's not funny. That joke was rather bad, actually. |:
Your reason #9 is so ****ing dumb I can't even begin to explain how much I am laughing at you. The whole reason they put in abilities is so things MAKE SENSE. Gengar is not a flying type, but he is a FRIGGIN GHOST! How does an Earthquake hurt him when he can FLOAT? Oh, but I understand that this is too complicated for you get wrap your simple mind around.
It's a ghost... with feet. Which means it's on the ground. But clearly my simple mind wouldn't know that anything on the groud is succeptable to an Earthquake...
The metagame is balanced now. Before, it was unbalanced and unfun. Things didn't make sense. Dragon type was useless as it had one move that only did 40 damage. Psychic type destroyed everything. To say that the metagame is worse now than it was is just ****ing STUPID.
And yet... Dragonite and Kingdra were still perfectly usable Pokemon.

Although I think I'll need an Ice Berry for that epic burn.
You remind me of a narrow-minded old man questioning why things aren't the same as when he grew up. Why, what are all these electronic doohickeys? When I was a kid all we had were sticks and rocks to entertain us! Since when did black people gain rights and start marrying white people? Man things are just too complicated nowadays, I like to live in my own little 12-year old world when things were simpler.
You're... completely out of control. None of those things are comparable. I think you're just angry at me for no real reason at all.


(Now mods, go ahead and warn me).

Oh, and saying you like the first gens better is one thing. Saying they're better is another thing (stupid), and agreeing with the reasons listed here is just short of complete cerebral failure.
I'm sorry... but since when are your beliefs and opinions imposed on others? Unless I'm in a mostly joke thread (as in Fugly Pokemon), I don't do that to other people.
You can't. He's just a complete idiot. And he thinks the "puzzles" are too hard. LOL
Wow, looks like you should play Colleseum.
Whoa man, don't you understand! That's all too complex! Change is bad! Since when does pokemon have to be something other than me killing things with my Charizard's Fire Blast? And since when does every pokemon that gets made past me being the age of 10 suck so bad? Geez things were so much simpler and better when I was 8 years old!
You're trying too hard.
Well in Normalize, that means any move Skitty and Delcatty use are STAB. Which is pretty sweet.

And with Klutz, keep in mind that not every ability is there to help. (Also, only an idiot would use a Buneary/Lopunny with that ability instead of Run Away/Cute Charm). Slow Start for Regigigas is a terrible ability. The abilities have more to do with the actual pokemon's traits than helping the pokemon out.
Actually, even Smogon admits that Cute Charm is a much better ability for Delcatty. The Pokemon is only highly used in NU... where the affects of Thunder Wave are a bit null with the lack of Ground and Ghost types.

Klutz is actually pretty useful in competitive... but the metagame was already ruined...

[Lornami]

I like adore contests. :c
EV's and IV's make my breeding job.

DPPt > GSC+RBG for me.

But you do pose good points. At least it wasn't "It's over 150, too many to catch so it sucks." like all my RL friends.

[YOOM-TAH]

Wait, you actually read Smogon! WHOA! That place is all new and complex! How could you bring yourself to read something that isn't quick and simple?

Geez Aegis just ban me then. I've already come to the realization that it's useless to try posting somewhere that's infested with 14 year olds who think they're cool by being nostalgic. Poor saps get offended by people who disagree with them and call them out on it. Since when is an argument a bad thing? This place would suck if I just came in and said "I disagree with you but let's kiss and hold hands for having differing opinions!"

[Glitter Stain]

I like adore contests. :c
EV's and IV's make my breeding job.

DPPt > GSC+RBG for me.

But you do pose good points. At least it wasn't "It's over 150, too many to catch so it sucks." like all my RL friends.
Ha, well, I can respect your opinion. 8D

I know it's personal preference and all but I don't like it when people bash the old games for no real reason. (So thanks for being reasonable). 8D

[Lornami]

Ha, well, I can respect your opinion. 8D

I know it's personal preference and all but I don't like it when people bash the old games for no real reason. (So thanks for being reasonable). 8D

Heh, yeah. It's not that I don't like the old games, but I'm a sucker for extras that are added on to something. :x It's bad financially.
I just always put my foot forth because I adore contests so much, but in reality....
I'm not sure if I can really judge because I didn't really UNDERSTAND much of what I was doing when I was so young playing the first two.

:3 It founded my love for Pokemon, but I think that there are always room for additions. (I do agree w/ GSC -> Hoenn getting rid of no day/night was bad.)
Some people like the originals but as long as the nest gens keep the overall feeling alive we could be just a bit nicer to them. (I sound like I'm talking about people?)

[AdvancedK47]

Wait, you actually read Smogon! WHOA! That place is all new and complex! How could you bring yourself to read something that isn't quick and simple?

Geez Aegis just ban me then. I've already come to the realization that it's useless to try posting somewhere that's infested with 14 year olds who think they're cool by being nostalgic. Poor saps get offended by people who disagree with them and call them out on it. Since when is an argument a bad thing? This place would suck if I just came in and said "I disagree with you but let's kiss and hold hands for having differing opinions!"

Dude...CTFD. I agree with the fact that I prefer new over old but I see no reason in flaming back the nostalgic. They are just that, nostalgic. Respect opinions and zip that hole :X

Now, I prefer the new generation over the old because to ME, I prefer challenge and complexity. I'm just that type that likes to exercise the brain and do multiple things at the same time. I am also picky on graphics. To me, as long as it looks cool, it is cool.

Now that's just my opinion. If you kick me were there's no tomorrow I'll just run away. :P.

[airconditioning]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/Gamerman/1221087264483.png

Seriously, I'm not even going to bother reading this thread.


Simple objectives without any tricky puzzles. If you have to look something up to be able to progress in a Pokemon game, other than how to progress past a cave, it's too difficult. RSE almost turned the games into Pokemon Puzzle League, especially with its puzzle for obtaining Regice, Regirock, and Registeel. DPP also had its fair share of puzzles -- such as how to "see" Dialga/Palkia.

BAWWWW POKEMON IS TOO HARD. You have got to be kidding me. Puzzles in RSE and DP are retardedly easy, just like they were in GSC and RBY. The Regi puzzles may have been annoying, but at least you had to work for your legends. Also, seeing Dialga/Palkia wasn't even a puzzle. It was talking to a person who would likely know something about those Pokemon.

You'll never drown. Hoenn is a sad region. It sunk to the bottom of the ocean long ago. They only recently managed to pull it out from the depths of the sea... it's still a bit wet, though. Having to surf for hours isn't fun, and neither is RSE.

I'll give you this one. Either way, it wasn't present in D/P.

Lavender and Pallet. In RBY, there were only two towns/cities that didn't have gyms. In GSC there were only three. Adding more of these is not replay value -- it's garbage. If you play all day for one day and you haven't even made it to Gardenia, something's wrong.

I don't even know what you're complaining about here. Are you complaining that there are too many towns that don't have gyms? That's retarded- towns without gyms give the world more depth. Besides, there's still 8 gyms, so you're not missing out on anything, assuming you don't have ADD.

Contests Suck. Plain and simple; contests are plainly terrible and simply awful. They go from the 17 types to "Cool", "Cute", "Tough", "Smart", and "Beauty" which directly translate to: Violent, Pink, Fugly, Mental, and Boring.

BAWWWWW NINTENDO IS FORCING ME TO DO OPTIONAL SIDEQUESTS THAT MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE BAWWWWWWWWW

The Time of Day (and Date) feature was wasted. There were so many daily and hourly events in GSC... where did they go? RSE took about 40 steps back, but DPP tried to rectify the issue. I don't want Drifloon, though, I want Lapras.

Fine.

Fugly Pokemon. Please view my Fugly Pokemon thread for my views on this issue.

I have viewed said thread, and the fact that you had the gall to insult Spiritomb, Dusknoir, Deoxys, Gliscor, Latios, and Luxray can only mean that you're either a bad troll or completely blind/ retarded.

Traditional definitions. What defines a legendary, a baby Pokemon, a starter, and fun have all changed in the world of Pokemon. Since when can legendaries have babies at the Daycare? Since when do Baby Pokemon have different types from their parents? (Normal -> Water) Since when could Bayleef (not Chikorita, mind you) be caught? Since when is bad taste fun?

BAWWWWWW I WANT THE SAME BORING POKEMON OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Screw you, these Pokemon keep things at least somewhat unique. Why are you even complaining about this?

Bug Catching Contest and Safari Zone. Modern versions of these marvels (RSE Safari Zone and DPP Marsh) are far inferior to the originals. Who wants to go out of their way to catch a Pikachu?

Safari Zone has always sucked, although I will agree that it is markedly worse in D/P. But it was somewhat good in RSE- the ability to use Pokeblocks made things interesting.

EVs, Natures, 31 IVs, and Abilities. All of these things further complicated Competitive Pokemon and in-game Pokemon as well. Gengar is not a Flying-type, it should take damage from Earthquake. EVs make players train longer. Boring. Natures and IVs cause breeding mania and long-term depression.

No. EVs and IVs make the game actually somewhat balanced and competitive. Also, EVS AND IVS HAVE EXISTED SINCE RED AND BLUE.

And Gengar can float. I don't see why he shouldn't have Levitate.

Shorter Games. The shorter games actually provided more replay value... you knew you would have fun playing the game again and again because you wouldn't have to stop and train for hours just to get your Pokemon to level >9,000. The levels are very low in GSC (the first part) and that makes it so much more easy-going.


If you have to stop and grind, you suck at Pokemon.

Nostalgia. Uh, yeah, duh.


You've just completely invalidated your entire opinion.

[Glitter Stain]

Seriously, I'm not even going to bother reading this thread.

Lol, you did?

BAWWWW POKEMON IS TOO HARD. You have got to be kidding me. Puzzles in RSE and DP are retardedly easy, just like they were in GSC and RBY. The Regi puzzles may have been annoying, but at least you had to work for your legends. Also, seeing Dialga/Palkia wasn't even a puzzle. It was talking to a person who would likely know something about those Pokemon.

I also work for monetary compensation... I'll trade you my Regice for your salary!

I don't even know what you're complaining about here. Are you complaining that there are too many towns that don't have gyms? That's retarded- towns without gyms give the world more depth. Besides, there's still 8 gyms, so you're not missing out on anything, assuming you don't have ADD.

You can't say that Jubilife wasn't missing a gym... what's wrong with having more than 8 gyms?

And how do small towns with shallow histories and little time spent in them add depth to anything?

BAWWWWW NINTENDO IS FORCING ME TO DO OPTIONAL SIDEQUESTS THAT MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE BAWWWWWWWWW

I would much prefer them put time into features that would generally attract genuine Pokemon fans... I bought a Pokemon game, after all.


I have viewed said thread, and the fact that you had the gall to insult Spiritomb, Dusknoir, Deoxys, Gliscor, Latios, and Luxray can only mean that you're either a bad troll or completely blind/ retarded.

I can see that you still haven't gotten over aragornbird leaving PC. It doesn't look like he's coming back, so anyone who was protected under his modship is now free prey for anyone else.

BAWWWWWW I WANT THE SAME BORING POKEMON OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Screw you, these Pokemon keep things at least somewhat unique. Why are you even complaining about this?

BAWWWW! BAWWWWW!

Safari Zone has always sucked, although I will agree that it is markedly worse in D/P. But it was somewhat good in RSE- the ability to use Pokeblocks made things interesting.

That's not interesting at all. ||:

No. EVs and IVs make the game actually somewhat balanced and competitive. Also, EVS AND IVS HAVE EXISTED SINCE RED AND BLUE.
Lol I said that? The point was that they added 16 more IVs. And if EVs have existed since RBY... why aren't they listed in any analysis before the Advanced Generation? (so if they did exist, they obviously weren't important...)

You've just completely invalidated your entire opinion.
Ha, ha, ha ha ha, hahahaha, ha. Lol. Lmao. Rofl. XD? Nostalgia is a lot more than RSE has going for itself.
Replies in bold, any questions?

[airconditioning]

Lol, you did?

I skipped the majority of it. Shut up. >:(

I also work for monetary compensation... I'll trade you my Regice for your salary!

That's taking what I said out of context. Video games are supposed to be challenging- there's no challenge in walking up to a sprite and OLOLOL MASTERBALL.

You can't say that Jubilife wasn't missing a gym... what's wrong with having more than 8 gyms?

Jubilife was fine- it was plenty populated with a number of interesting areas (TV Tower, Poketch building, GTS, etc.). Not every town needs a gym. And I never said that there was anything inherently wrong with having 8 gyms- I was just saying that in comparison to the older games, D/P has just as many gyms.

And how do small towns with shallow histories and little time spent in them add depth to anything?

They make the world feel more alive- as in, that there's at least something more than gym battling to the world.

I would much prefer them put time into features that would generally attract genuine Pokemon fans... I bought a Pokemon game, after all.

PEOPLE WHO LIKE POKEMON AND PLAY CONTESTS AREN'T GENUINE POKEMON FANS. MORE AT 11.

Contests may not be that great in my opinion, but many people like them. And hey, they are optional. Quit whining.

I can see that you still haven't gotten over aragornbird leaving PC. It doesn't look like he's coming back, so anyone who was protected under his modship is now free prey for anyone else.

I was actually unaware that guy ever posted here. Nor do I care. And his relevance to this conversation is... ?

That's not interesting at all. ||:

My Modest Safari Zone Pikachu disagrees. :3

And hey, it's more interesting than any other 'innovation' in that Zone.

Lol I said that? The point was that they added 16 more IVs.

Why would you care about 16 more IVs?

And if EVs have existed since RBY... why aren't they listed in any analysis before the Advanced Generation? (so if they did exist, they obviously weren't important...)

Recommended reading: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Effort_value

Generation I

In Generation I, the basic EV system was introduced. Each Pokémon would give out either 1, 2, or 3 effort points, depending on its species, in a particular stat (Attack, Defense, Speed, Special, or HP). With these effort points, a Pokémon would get stronger in a specific stat by battling the same kind of Pokémon over and over. For example, continually battling Jolteon after Jolteon, with its high speed, would cause a Pokémon to eventually have a higher Speed.

At level 100, a Pokémon's stats will be one point higher in a specific stat for every four effort points gained in that stat compared to an untrained counterpart. Though leveling up stops at 100, addition of effort values can continue indefinitely, until the Pokémon reaches the maximum possible value for their stats using the box trick, where a Pokémon's stats are recalculated to reflect the amount of effort points it has gained when it is deposited in a PC.

EVs were roughly the same, sans the lack of a cap. Essentially meaning that with enough training, any Pokemon can have 999 in every stat- I shouldn't have to explain why such a system wasn't included in online simulators, and by relation, why Smogon (who focuses on online simulators) does not list them.

Responses in bold. Good day.

[AdvancedK47]

Both of you, no whining. I will report both of you if you start using caps.

Just stop. Everyone has their different opinions. If someone says that periods suck and commas rule, would you see worth it debating the opposite? It goes for all cases that are opinion sensitive. If someone says that this-randomnoob's-hack is better than Pokemon Diamond... well fine, have a nice day.

Stop it and make up before I go get my MP44.

[Syndrome]

IMO, D/P/Pt was better than R/B/Y G/S/C for a few reasons

1.WiFi
2.Garchomp
3.Wifi
4.You dont need to be right beside someone to get that perfect Sneasel or Larvitar
5.You dont need to be right beside someone to Slaughter them in a battle
6.(and this is the big one,) WIFI!

Now...a few reasons why the older gens were better

1.No ugly as hell Evos
2.No salamence
3.No metagross
4.No contests (booyah)
5.It was easier to train your pokes
6. The battle tower actually didn't cheat

[airconditioning]

If someone says that periods suck and commas rule, would you see worth it debating the opposite?

Hell yes I would. Anyone that wants to diss periods had best be trollan.

And for the record, there are two different kinda of opinions.

Opinions that are subjective:
I think older Sonic games are better than the current ones.

And opinions that are flat out WRONG:
I think current Sonic games are better than the older ones.

While the OP's opinion can be considered subjective, the arguments he uses to back up his opinion are flat out wrong.

[Glitter Stain]

Hell yes I would. Anyone that wants to diss periods had best be trollan.

And for the record, there are two different kinda of opinions.

Opinions that are subjective:


And opinions that are flat out WRONG:


While the OP's opinion can be considered subjective, the arguments he uses to back up his opinion are flat out wrong.
Sorry, those aren't comparable to this situation. Calling someone's opinion flat out wrong... is pretty degrading to your own viewpoint.

[.]

I stand by my opinion that GSC was the best game of the whole series. It was the longest, let you visit two regions, and had such an excellent feeling to it, like you were really taking on the whole world to become a Pokemon Master. You took on Team Rocket, and grew stronger alongside your sinister rival. The little things like Sprout Tower were massively fun, and getting Gastly for the first time at night was the best part of any Pokemon game. Perhaps the best part was after you beat the Elite 4. I thought the game was over, and was about to put it away when I found out I was only halfway through the game. There were so many other things to do, people to battle, problems to solve, and this was all after you became a Pokemon Master! The sprites were at the level where they didn't suck, but they still looked old enough to be considered "classic".

Keep in mind, I never usually agree with the whole "THINGS WERE BETTER BACK THEN" trend. I prefer GSC over RBY simply because I FEEL IT IS A BETTER GAME. I DON'T BASE MY OPINIONS ON THE TIME PERIOD THE GAME WAS MADE. I personally felt RSE was the worst of the games. It was unfamiliar, it didn't have that sense of truly accomplishing much, and the whole region seemed foreign and uncomfortable. The starters seemed odd, and in my opinion, all three of them suck competatively (except Swampert, who is rapidly declining in usage). Blaziken was my least favorite of the 3 Fire starters of the time. Although, Sceptile is still in my heart, that I can't deny. I didn't mind the Contests or Puzzles, I never really took time to appreciate/hate them mainly because I was occupied with raising a balanced ingame team as well as trying to beat Wattson (who was RIDICULOUS >=[).

I disagree with EVs/IVs ruining the game. In fact, they made it better. They made certain Pokemon BETTER. Base stats with no ability to increase them without resulting to a move basically said "__ Pokemon cannot beat __ Pokemon whatsoever". EV's and IV's changed that, as did expanding movepools. In ADV, Starmie took out Gyarados comfortably, as did Zapdos. However, in DP, neither of the two are even close to counters to the LO Gyarados. Sure, offense dominates now, but that doesn't really matter since the same thing could've been said about Stall in the previous two gens.

I also miss the Day/Night feature in GSC, as do I miss battling Red. We can be here all day listing awesome things from GSC, but that won't solve anything.

[Glitter Stain]

I disagree with EVs/IVs ruining the game. In fact, they made it better. They made certain Pokemon BETTER. Base stats with no ability to increase them without resulting to a move basically said "__ Pokemon cannot beat __ Pokemon whatsoever". EV's and IV's changed that, as did expanding movepools. In ADV, Starmie took out Gyarados comfortably, as did Zapdos. However, in DP, neither of the two are even close to counters to the LO Gyarados. Sure, offense dominates now, but that doesn't really matter since the same thing could've been said about Stall in the previous two gens.
Ah, well I guess my EV/IV arguments were already moot... but I still believe that Abilities and Natures are garbage, so I'm leaving that point there.

[AdvancedK47]

Hell yes I would. Anyone that wants to diss periods had best be trollan.

And for the record, there are two different kinda of opinions.

Opinions that are subjective:


And opinions that are flat out WRONG:


While the OP's opinion can be considered subjective, the arguments he uses to back up his opinion are flat out wrong.

That's the god damn hard waffle I'm talking about! You are not respecting other opinions. If you see the other side wrong let them be wrong in your eyes. If they see you wrong in they're eyes, let them be seeing you wrong in their eyes. One side will be wrong, but in cases like this of opinion. There is no right or wrong answer.

Ask yourself. What's the point of the debate? Are you trying to pull Glitter into new games? Or are you trying to disprove his points? If you are, you are not succeeding and probably won't. And if you don't back off... Pichu will hit you with his axe... or something...

Just stop the fighting. It's going nowhere.

[airconditioning]

Vance, if more people like you posted in Pokemon General, I wouldn't have any newbs to yell at. :3

And Glitter, maybe certain opinions can't be inherently wrong, but they can certainly be presented in a stupid enough manner to make them seem so. Take a look at Vance's post- he backs up his argument with reason and logic- not by foggy nostalgia glasses.


EDIT: That's the god damn hard waffle I'm talking about!

What do waffles have to do with anything?

Ask yourself. What's the point of the debate? Are you trying to pull Glitter into new games? Or are you trying to disprove his points? If you are, you are not succeeding and probably won't. And if you don't back off... Pichu will hit you with his axe... or something...

My purpose is to explain to Glitter that his argument (and by extension, he) is retarded. I mean, come on. He seriously complained about the difficulty of a Pokemon game.

[.]

Expanding on AC's response to -Advancek9-, isn't the point of an argument is to refute someone's points and establish yours as correct? I don't know people should just "stop arguing" if things got into a massive disagreement. There'd be no progress in anything if no one made it clear their opinion was correct and the other one is wrong.

[Glitter Stain]

Vance, if more people like you posted in Pokemon General, I wouldn't have any newbs to yell at. :3

And Glitter, maybe certain opinions can't be inherently wrong, but they can certainly be presented in a stupid enough manner to make them seem so. Take a look at Vance's post- he backs up his argument with reason and logic- not by foggy nostalgia glasses.
Excuse me? 8 out of 11 of my points were completely valid and had nothing to do with nostalgia. The other 2 I'll admit were underdeveloped... but erm, why would I want to play a puzzle just to beat the game? GSC had only 3 real puzzles. (All of which weren't much of a hassle, unlike Wallace and his gym.) Sadly you're missing my point. My point is not that they're too hard, but that they're excessive.

As for your general attitude about this board, I do have to ask how sore your ego is? Because you don't really have a jurisdiction to say who's a noob and who's an example. (Although Vance is a sufficient example in most cases).

[.]

Excuse me? 8 out of 11 of my points were completely valid and had nothing to do with nostalgia. The other 2 I'll admit were underdeveloped... but erm, why would I want to play a puzzle just to beat the game. GSC had only 3 real puzzles. (All of which weren't much of a hassle, unlike Wallace and his gym.) Sadly you're missing my point. My point is not that they're too hard, but that they're excessive.

As for your general attitude about this board, I do have to ask how sore your ego is? Because you don't really have a jurisdiction to say who's a noob and who's an example. (Although Vance is a sufficient example in most cases).

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try and get friendly with me, and try and stick to the topic at hand. The puzzles in GSC were rare and very fun. The caves were a tad hard, but that's why you buy the game. You buy it for a challenge. Having an "excessive" amount of puzzles may seem like a good argument, but considering that the same could be said about an "excessive" amount of simple paths such as the Brock/Misty/etc... Gym.

[Glitter Stain]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try and get friendly with me, and try and stick to the topic at hand. The puzzles in GSC were rare and very fun. The caves were a tad hard, but that's why you buy the game. You buy it for a challenge. Having an "excessive" amount of puzzles may seem like a good argument, but considering that the same could be said about an "excessive" amount of simple paths such as the Brock/Misty/etc... Gym.
I wasn't trying to get friendly with you... I just didn't want you to think that by calling him out for complimenting you I was thereby insulting you. (Which I wasn't).

[AdvancedK47]

Waffles have to do with EVERYTHING!

If you're trying to prove her points retarded, you're going nowhere.

Also, check the genders, Glitter is a girl :P.

Expanding on AC's response to -Advancek9-, isn't the point of an argument is to refute someone's points and establish yours as correct? I don't know people should just "stop arguing" if things got into a massive disagreement. There'd be no progress in anything if no one made it clear their opinion was correct and the other one is wrong.

This isn't that kind of "legal debate". 2 people are fighting on each other because one thinks nostalgically, and one thinks modernly. Unfortunately, I see no real thought in this debate on whether new or old is better or not.

[.]

This isn't that kind of "legal debate". 2 people are fighting on each other because one thinks nostalgically, and one thinks modernly. Unfortunately, I see no real thought in this debate on whether new or old is better or not.

Perhaps you don't see the "real thought" in this debate because you're not as adamant as either of these two when it comes to their opinion on this matter. It's obvious they've been going back and forth to prove each other wrong, but they are not fighting and spamming the entire thread up with bubbling nonsense. They're providing facts and opinions. Unless of course, you have a problem with facts and opinions being posted on a Pokemon Forum.

[Glitter Stain]

IMO, D/P/Pt was better than R/B/Y G/S/C for a few reasons

1.WiFi
2.Garchomp
3.Wifi
4.You dont need to be right beside someone to get that perfect Sneasel or Larvitar
5.You dont need to be right beside someone to Slaughter them in a battle
6.(and this is the big one,) WIFI!
Must've missed this one.
Anyway, yeah, Wi-Fi was nice... but why would it matter when most battlers have moved onto Shoddy (competitive at least), and everyone stopped trying to catch them all after they realized that there were nearly 500 Pokemon?

[Syndrome]

Well that question I really can't answer, but hell, WiFi is fun...

[AdvancedK47]

Perhaps you don't see the "real thought" in this debate because you're not as adamant as either of these two when it comes to their opinion on this matter. It's obvious they've been going back and forth to prove each other wrong, but they are not fighting and spamming the entire thread up with bubbling nonsense. They're providing facts and opinions. Unless of course, you have a problem with facts and opinions being posted on a Pokemon Forum.

What I see problematic is the abuse of opinions. I have no intent on touching the fact...*shot*

They are using facts, however, to seemingly try to prove to each other that THEIR generation is better, and I'm not liking that.

[airconditioning]

Excuse me? 8 out of 11 of my points were completely valid and had nothing to do with nostalgia.

Fine, nostalgia goggles and poorly developed opinions.

... but erm, why would I want to play a puzzle just to beat the game?

Puzzles and RPGs go hand in hand- dungeon puzzle solving has been as much of a part of the game as the dungeon boss for quite a while now. It creates a unique challenge from LOL ATTACK AND WIN GAME, and keeps the game interesting. Without them, you have simple dungeon crawling, and even simpler HIT ENEMIES UNTIL THEY DIE battle mechanics.

Granted, Pokemon is different from most other RPGs, but it's an RPG nonetheless. It's nice to see it borrow (good) ideas from its brethren.

... Or it would, except I can't seem to recall D/P having any puzzles, outside of gyms and Strength puzzles. And those have been around since R/B, I'm fairly certain.

My point is not that they're too hard, but that they're excessive.

See above.

As for your general attitude about this board, I do have to ask how sore your ego is? Because you don't really have a jurisdiction to say who's a noob and who's an example. (Although Vance is a sufficient example in most cases).

Well, it's simple. Anyone who posts in Pokemon General/ Pokemon D/P with little to no idea of what they're talking about = newb. Especially ones that think EVs/ IVs are too complicated.

That is a LOT of people.

EDIT:Anyway, yeah, Wi-Fi was nice... but why would it matter when most battlers have moved onto Shoddy (competitive at least)

Shoddy is kind of... shoddy, when it comes to bells and whistles. WiFi is a lot more fun to play.

And everyone stopped trying to catch them all after they realized that there were nearly 500 Pokemon?

Maybe you did, but the rest of us enjoy the challenge. >:)

[.]

What I see problematic is the abuse of opinions. I have no intent on touching the fact...*shot*

They are using facts, however, to seemingly try to prove to each other that THEIR generation is better, and I'm not liking that.

Whether their opinions are valid or not, they're still trying to prove that theirs is correct, and considering that no one can outright claim that their opinion is superior to ___'s opinion without providing facts...Well, basically, if they're trying to defend their argument, and that they're providing facts, I don't see how it's bothering you. If you want to express your displeasure, be their guest and enter the argument. There's always more room.

[Syndrome]

Really, both the new and old gens have their ups and downs so arguing is pointless

[Glitter Stain]

Fine, nostalgia goggles and poorly developed opinions.



Puzzles and RPGs go hand in hand- dungeon puzzle solving has been as much of a part of the game as the dungeon boss for quite a while now. It creates a unique challenge from LOL ATTACK AND WIN GAME, and keeps the game interesting. Without them, you have simple dungeon crawling, and even simpler HIT ENEMIES UNTIL THEY DIE battle mechanics.

We are playing Pokemon, right?

Granted, Pokemon is different from most other RPGs, but it's an RPG nonetheless. It's nice to see it borrow (good) ideas from its brethren.

... Or it would, except I can't seem to recall D/P having any puzzles, outside of gyms and Strength puzzles. And those have been around since R/B, I'm fairly certain.

Turnback Cave? (And what are RBY's Gym Puzzles [excluding Sabrina] compared to Candice's, Volkner's, Byron's, Maylene's [to an extent], or Crasher Wake's [IIR-that-one-C]

See above.



Well, it's simple. Anyone who posts in Pokemon General/ Pokemon D/P with little to no idea of what they're talking about = newb. Especially ones that think EVs/ IVs are too complicated.

Hmm, well, I do know what I'm talking about, so I guess I wouldn't fall under that category?

That is a LOT of people.
Ha, I'm still laughing from your initial post in this thread.

[airconditioning]

We are playing Pokemon, right?

RPGs in general. Which, by extension, refers to Pokemon.

Candice's, Volkner's, Byron's, Maylene's [to an extent], or Crasher Wake's [IIR-that-one-C]

Wait, those are puzzles? Those are really straightforward and simple. (with the possible exception of Candice, as I seem to have a disability when it comes to sliding ice floor puzzles).

As for Turnback Cave, I've yet to do that, so I can't say.

[Syndrome]

Well they were supposed to be but they are more like annoying minigames...

[Glitter Stain]

RPGs in general. Which, by extension, refers to Pokemon.



Wait, those are puzzles? Those are really straightforward and simple. (with the possible exception of Candice, as I seem to have a disability when it comes to sliding ice floor puzzles).

As for Turnback Cave, I've yet to do that, so I can't say.
Hmm, maybe puzzle wasn't quite the right word... Perhaps just a general annoyance?

[YOOM-TAH]

AC just brought the IQ level of this topic WAY up. But don't count out Glitter who is doing her best to hold it back around the level of seaweed.

Here I summarize Glitter Stain's stance:

"I don't want the game to be hard. I don't want anything other than battling. I don't want balance. I only want pokemon who are cute/cool; ugly pokemon serve no purpose. If added features don't satisfy me, I'd rather have a game with NO added features. Shorter games = better. Gym puzzles are really HARD! Every town should have a gym or else it shouldn't exist. Any changes are bad."

I can back up every single thing I just said with things Glitter girl has said to the point where that summary cannot be refuted.

[Tanooki]

Really, both the new and old gens have their ups and downs so arguing is pointless
BUT WHERES THE FUN IN THAT?!?!?!11one2 =P

The only thing I really don't agree with at all in this thread is the puzzle arguement. Puzzles add to the gameplay; without it, you basically have linear, straightforward gameplay with no twists or surprise (or in some cases, no challanges as well). Could you imagine, say, a Zelda game that had dungeons without puzzles? Or any kind of RPG-type of game for that matter? It would basically be walking around big open areas, most of the time being unchallanged in any way at all.

It's really the same thing with Pokemon. What fun or challange would the Seafoam Islands or Victory Road in RBY have provided if it didn't have the boulder-pushing puzzle? Without puzzles, the gyms would all be the same. Nothing would set them apart beside the trainers, and the Pokemon they use.

Honestly, I can't imagne a Pokemon game without some kind of puzzle, whether it be in a cave or a gym. And really, none of them are very hard at all, so I don't know where that's coming from either. Probably the hardest puzzle I've ever dealt with in Pokemon was the Ice Cave in GSC, and even that doesn't take very long.

[YOOM-TAH]

BUT WHERES THE FUN IN THAT?!?!?!11one2 =P

The only thing I really don't agree with at all in this thread is the puzzle arguement. Puzzles add to the gameplay; without it, you basically have linear, straightforward gameplay with no twists or surprise (or in some cases, no challanges as well). Could you imagine, say, a Zelda game that had dungeons without puzzles? Or any kind of RPG-type of game for that matter?

It's the same thing with Pokemon. What fun or challange would the Seafoam Islands or Victory Road in RBY have provided without the boulder-pushing puzzle? Without puzzles, the gyms would all be the same. Nothing would set them apart beside the trainers, and the Pokemon they use.

Honestly, I can't imagne a Pokemon game without some kind of puzzle, whether it be in a cave or a gym. And really, none of them are very hard at all, so I don't know where that's coming from either. Probably the hardest puzzle I've ever dealt with in Pokemon was the Ice Cave in GSC, and even that doesn't take very long.


That's ALL you disagree with? You think Gengar should be harmed by Earthquake? LOL

[Syndrome]

For a fact, the hardest "puzzle" of any pokemon game is turnback cave, where every room is randomly generated...

[Glitter Stain]

AC just brought the IQ level of this topic WAY up. But don't count out Glitter who is doing her best to hold it back around the level of seaweed.

Here I summarize Glitter Stain's stance:

"I don't want the game to be hard. I don't want anything other than battling. I don't want balance. I only want pokemon who are cute/cool; ugly pokemon serve no purpose. If added features don't satisfy me, I'd rather have a game with NO added features. Shorter games = better. Gym puzzles are really HARD! Every town should have a gym or else it shouldn't exist. Any changes are bad."

I can back up every single thing I just said with things Glitter girl has said to the point where that summary cannot be refuted.
Considering your "summary" is highly a parody... it's much more extremist than anything I've said... and not even accurate to my opinion. Clearly you've gone beyond trying to haphazardly defend your nostalgic fever (seeing as it appears that you were born around the time that Emerald came out) and gone straight to trolling and trying to have everyone join your vacant bandwagon.

If you had even read any of the posts in the last page or so, you'd know that you were completely wrong with your conclusion about my opinion. Good bye.

[Tanooki]

That's ALL you disagree with? You think Gengar should be harmed by Earthquake? LOL
Heh, I actually forgot that. The puzzle arguement stuck with me more.

(and no, I don't think Gengar should be harmed by Earthquake)

[YOOM-TAH]

Considering your "summary" is highly a parody... it's much more extremist than anything I've said... and not even accurate to my opinion. Clearly you've gone beyond trying to haphazardly defend your nostalgic fever (seeing as it appears that you were born around the time that Emerald came out) and gone straight to trolling and trying to have everyone join your vacant bandwagon.

If you had even read any of the posts in the last page or so, you'd know that you were completely wrong with your conclusion about my opinion. Good bye.

LOL you are 14. I was in the 4th grade when pokemon first came out in America. You were not in school.

I don't have to defend what I just said before, because it's all claims that you've made or implied. If you want to type up your entire argument again so that doesn't apply, be my guest, but as it stands you've argued everything that I said you did.

[DonRoyale]

With regards to WiFi vs. Shoddy, I am one of the few people who initially started on Shoddy and, after about a month of fighting the same teams over and over, decided that WiFi would be better. At least there, I had a shred of fun. >=|

Back to the point, I think what Glitter is trying to say is that the latter generations have a different feel from the original games ("more complex dungeons", "more filler towns", "fuglier Pokemon", etc.), and because of that, are inferior just because they strayed from the initial feel of what a Pokemon game "should be" that the first two generations established. Personally, the difference is miniscule and I embrace the newer Pokemon games with impunity to the minute changes made in the recent generations. I've no need to back this up as I have in my initial post, so I'll just say that while I think the initial generations are good for the nostalgia value, as someone who is not only a player with the mindstate of a competitive battler, but one who is -seemingly- oblivious to the hordes of people who jump on GSC and claim it's the Pokemon Jesus, I don't think GSC was the best. (I'll stand by D/P/Pt for the sake of what it's done for the competitive metagame.)

[YOOM-TAH]

With regards to WiFi vs. Shoddy, I am one of the few people who initially started on Shoddy and, after about a month of fighting the same teams over and over, decided that WiFi would be better. At least there, I had a shred of fun. >=|

Back to the point, I think what Glitter is trying to say is that the latter generations have a different feel from the original games ("more complex dungeons", "more filler towns", "fuglier Pokemon", etc.), and because of that, are inferior just because they strayed from the initial feel of what a Pokemon game "should be" that the first two generations established. Personally, the difference is miniscule and I embrace the newer Pokemon games with impunity to the minute changes made in the recent generations. I've no need to back this up as I have in my initial post, so I'll just say that while I think the initial generations are good for the nostalgia value, as someone who is not only a player with the mindstate of a competitive battler, but one who is -seemingly- oblivious to the hordes of people who jump on GSC and claim it's the Pokemon Jesus, I don't think GSC was the best. (I'll stand by D/P/Pt for the sake of what it's done for the competitive metagame.)

WHOAMG wave of intelligence and rational thought!

[DonRoyale]

WHOAMG wave of intelligence and rational thought!

WHOAMG wave of retarded troll!

Look, if you're going to brush off all arguments presented against you, then nobody's going to take what you have to say seriously. If you're going to present a counter-argument, don't reply in a way that makes you sound like a total idiot. You're contributing nothing to the progression and discussion of the thread, and you're asking yourself to get banned with the way you are blatantly insulting the intelligence of other members of the forum.

Glitter admitted she made a mistake. Therefore, your argument, which addresses the points that she herself owned up to as being irrational, becomes nothing but trolling. Stop it.

[YOOM-TAH]

XD I can't help but laugh at people who get butthurt over what people say on the internet.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's e-feelings. LOL

Look, I respond intelligently and whole-heartedly to topics which are presented that way. But this topic is clearly a steaming pile of stupid, so of course I'm not going to respond to anything seriously.

And I DID ask to be banned, literally. Aegis was too soft to do it.

[Aegis]

Okay, this thread is just turning into a flame war 8( Every time I look up I have a new report for it, I swear, all that this is is fighting and arguing over the same old stuff.

-Closed-

YOOM-TAH: It's not called being soft, it's, you know, trying to be nice and give you another chance. *shrug*