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View Full Version : Just my opinions on the modding system, some suggestions


Glitter Stain
December 18th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Why mods shouldn't be given more than a few sections:
Some mods are inactive enough already. Giving mods too many sections decreases efficiency and to be honest kind of affirms any trace of elitism. Luckily this isn't too bad of a problem... but Pokemon Writing and Other Writing are clearly different, appeal to different audiences, and require different standards. (Read two bullet points down if you don't think OW needs an exclusive mod)

Why infraction points shouldn't be a heavy factor in modding:
Some sections are stricter than others, and generally people who may act immature in PG or DPP wouldn't act a fool in conservative death penalty sections like S&M. People have limitations and infractions aren't a good representation of these limitations. Frankly any higher staff who says "NO DONT MOD HIM/HER, HE/SHE GETS IN TROUBLE" is a bit dumb because modding in itself could easily improve someone's behavior drastically. (I'd know from experience seeing a rather... ew member getting modded on another forum and becoming a lot less ew)

Why even inactive sections need a mod of their own:
This is called Pokecommunity, right? (Accent marks aside and such) Even inactive sections have a rather particular fanbase. People who aren't fully interested in the subject matter anymore, or who never were, may not be the best for the section. After all, we're here to have fun, right? How's it fun if the section is dead and cut off from the staff?

Why it doesn't hurt to double up on mods:
Who says Other Chat can't have 3 mods? Who says Pixel Art and NU/W can't have two? Why couldn't S&M or DPP have four? The reason mods are there is to keep the forums safe and user-friendly, and PC has more than enough members to have a lengthy mod list.

Mitchman
December 18th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Your points are rediculous. Infractions are there to warn. You take em out all hell will break loose. Without infractions bans will work oddly. we dont need more mods. The inactive areas if gotten out of control can be handled with out moderators. If the mod is inactive then they will be sent an email most likely that need to do there jobs. If they have a reason that they are so inactive the igher up could give a helping hand and thats it.

Cherrim
December 18th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Yeah I pretty much disagree with everything. :|
Why mods shouldn't be given more than a few sections:
I dunno, I see it as writing is writing no matter what the topic is. If there's concrete evidence that another mod, or a different mod, is needed, we'll look into it. As for mods with more than one section, they've all shown they can handle it. If it turns out they can't, we remove them from the forums they can't deal with and look elsewhere for help.
Why infraction points shouldn't be a heavy factor in modding:
I'd prefer to have mods who can conduct themselves in a non-infraction-inducing fashion all over the board in the first place, thank you. There's no reason they shouldn't be mature enough to do so before we hire them. Plus it's not like we haven't modded people with infractions (or even previous bans) before. We go on a case-by-case and consider anyone with potential. Infractions are obviously going to be a hindrance but we don't automatically ignore someone who has any. They are, and will always BE, a heavy factor though. Moreso if they're continuous/recent.
Why even inactive sections need a mod of their own:
Most of the dead sections just don't get activity regardless. We'll mod someone there if we feel they can spruce it up and bring new life to the forum but otherwise we just check in and police the place, more or less. If someone stands out in a modless forum, we'll probably mod them. If not, it'll stay as is.
Why it doesn't hurt to double up on mods:
Because when we have too many mods, there isn't enough work to go around, the mods feel useless and they quit. That or there's too much confusion as to who does what, it's hard to coordinate things, and it becomes a hassle for everyone involved. Overstaffing isn't good.

processr
December 18th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Why mods shouldn't be given more than a few sections:
Some mods are inactive enough already. Giving mods too many sections decreases efficiency and to be honest kind of affirms any trace of elitism. Luckily this isn't too bad of a problem... but Pokemon Writing and Other Writing are clearly different, appeal to different audiences, and require different standards. (Read two bullet points down if you don't think OW needs an exclusive mod)

Have you actually read the forum leaders (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showgroups.php) page? The only mod with more than one forum (subforums notwithstanding, but they don't factor in so much) is Aegis, and only a handful have two. Plus, regarding your point with the writing forums, Astinus has easily proven herself to be capable of handling the two, and while they are different the two forums have enough similarities to allow one mod to take care of the both of them. Your ideas seem to be based on the notion that one mod only has the mental/physical capacity to take on one forum, but that's a very limiting assumption that shouldn't be made in the first place.


Why infraction points shouldn't be a heavy factor in modding:
Some sections are stricter than others, and generally people who may act immature in PG or DPP wouldn't act a fool in conservative death penalty sections like S&M. People have limitations and infractions aren't a good representation of these limitations. Frankly any higher staff who says "NO DONT MOD HIM/HER, HE/SHE GETS IN TROUBLE" is a bit dumb because modding in itself could easily improve someone's behavior drastically. (I'd know from experience seeing a rather... ew member getting modded on another forum and becoming a lot less ew)

The operative word is 'could', because frankly one wouldn't run the risk of modding a member who gets into trouble. A staff member should lead by example, and one can't go handing the positions out to members who simply have the potential to be a good mod - a mod candidate should already be showing such qualities, and ideally should have for a long time.

Why it doesn't hurt to double up on mods:
Who says Other Chat can't have 3 mods? Who says Pixel Art and NU/W can't have two? Why couldn't S&M or DPP have four? The reason mods are there is to keep the forums safe and user-friendly, and PC has more than enough members to have a lengthy mod list.

The moderators that are in charge of forums by themselves are usually both capable of handling the workload and active enough to convince the higher-ups that further moderators are not required. Or, there simply aren't any members who are quite up to the existing moderators' standards.

Mitchman
December 18th, 2008, 02:31 PM
And infractions as lightning stated dont play much role in who becomes a mod. Adding to the sprucer of an are or a very good member or are very capable if you become a mod of an area it also mans its the area you care for the most and love to help make a better place.

Glitter Stain
December 18th, 2008, 02:43 PM
I'm only replying to the first four replies for now... I'll reply to others as they come in.
Your points are rediculous. Infractions are there to warn. You take em out all hell will break loose. Without infractions bans will work oddly. we dont need more mods. The inactive areas if gotten out of control can be handled with out moderators. If the mod is inactive then they will be sent an email most likely that need to do there jobs. If they have a reason that they are so inactive the igher up could give a helping hand and thats it.
Is my speeling ridiculous, too?

Where on Earth did I say anything about removing infractions...? lol, your post doesn't really even deserve a reply seeing as you ignored the purpose of everything I suggested.
And infractions as lightning stated dont play much role in who becomes a mod. Adding to the sprucer of an are or a very good member or are very capable if you become a mod of an area it also mans its the area you care for the most and love to help make a better place.
Telling me stuff I already know? Thanks.
Have you actually read the forum leaders (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showgroups.php) page? The only mod with more than one forum (subforums notwithstanding, but they don't factor in so much) is Aegis, and only a handful have two. Plus, regarding your point with the writing forums, Astinus has easily proven herself to be capable of handling the two, and while they are different the two forums have enough similarities to allow one mod to take care of the both of them. Your ideas seem to be based on the notion that one mod only has the mental/physical capacity to take on one forum, but that's a very limiting assumption that shouldn't be made in the first place.

Yeah, I used two as a "They can have two if they actually care about both of them, and they're not incredibly active." And sadly you didn't quite read me at all. I didn't say she wasn't capable... just that OW and Pokemon Writing can't be held to the same standards and shouldn't be treated as the same board.

The operative word is 'could', because frankly one wouldn't run the risk of modding a member who gets into trouble. A staff member should lead by example, and one can't go handing the positions out to members who simply have the potential to be a good mod - a mod candidate should already be showing such qualities, and ideally should have for a long time.

At least you're acknowledging this point... whether you agreed with it or not. (Although "long time" points to BB and Franceschi)

The moderators that are in charge of forums by themselves are usually both capable of handling the workload and active enough to convince the higher-ups that further moderators are not required. Or, there simply aren't any members who are quite up to the existing moderators' standards.
@your last paragraph, I'm not really sure what you mean. Handling the workload should not be the only responsibility of a mod... seeing as a few sections have "lock 'n' leave" mods.
Yeah I pretty much disagree with everything. :|
Why does that not surprise me in the slightest? ^_^
I dunno, I see it as writing is writing no matter what the topic is. If there's concrete evidence that another mod, or a different mod, is needed, we'll look into it. As for mods with more than one section, they've all shown they can handle it. If it turns out they can't, we remove them from the forums they can't deal with and look elsewhere for help.
Writing is writing... and posting is posting. Since all forums are generally based around posting information and opinions, should we just have digi-kun mod all the sections and can everyone else?
I'd prefer to have mods who can conduct themselves in a non-infraction-inducing fashion all over the board in the first place, thank you. There's no reason they shouldn't be mature enough to do so before we hire them. Plus it's not like we haven't modded people with infractions (or even previous bans) before. We go on a case-by-case and consider anyone with potential. Infractions are obviously going to be a hindrance but we don't automatically ignore someone who has any. They are, and will always BE, a heavy factor though. Moreso if they're continuous/recent.
Well, I wasn't really sure about this, glad to know that it's not as heavily weighted, as, you know, stuff that matters.
Most of the dead sections just don't get activity regardless. We'll mod someone there if we feel they can spruce it up and bring new life to the forum but otherwise we just check in and police the place, more or less. If someone stands out in a modless forum, we'll probably mod them. If not, it'll stay as is.
Wut? If all the mods left S&M (seeing as they do provide most of the permissions and are the only ones that can implement new ideas well), I think the majority of the members would follow right behind them.
Because when we have too many mods, there isn't enough work to go around, the mods feel useless and they quit. That or there's too much confusion as to who does what, it's hard to coordinate things, and it becomes a hassle for everyone involved. Overstaffing isn't good.
If a mod feels useless, they probably are. They CAN do things besides dictate, yell, and infract... they can post important stickies, implement new ideas to bring in activity, and all sorts of things that aren't affected by the number of trolls on the site.

processr
December 18th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Yeah, I used two as a "They can have two if they actually care about both of them, and they're not incredibly active." And sadly you didn't quite read me at all. I didn't say she wasn't capable... just that OW and Pokemon Writing can't be held to the same standards and shouldn't be treated as the same board.

And you didn't seem to read the rest of my point:

...and while they are different the two forums have enough similarities to allow one mod to take care of the both of them.

~

@your last paragraph, I'm not really sure what you mean. Handling the workload should not be the only responsibility of a mod... seeing as a few sections have "lock 'n' leave" mods.

I mean that the moderators who are in sole control of a forum have usually proved themselves to be active and responsible enough to eliminate the need for any additional moderators. Oh, and care to name and shame the supposed 'lock 'n' leave' moderators? I'm sure they'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Sylphiel
December 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM
If a mod feels useless, they probably are. They CAN do things besides dictate, yell, and infract... they can post important stickies, implement new ideas to bring in activity, and all sorts of things that aren't affected by the number of trolls on the site.
And yet when there's like three people to a forum that doesn't really need it, then guess what else could happen? Potential arguments over who gets to post the stickies, or who gets to implement the ideas, etc. Arguments that could be avoided in the first place if the forum weren't overstaffed.

Just because we can fill a forum with more mods, doesn't mean we need to or should.

Mitchman
December 18th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I read wrong sorry. If you know what you know then why suggest this. Really sometimes i wonder why you post some threads. The mods are trying the best they can to be nice and dont yell infact and dictate all the time. Try balancing life with helping maintaining balance on a webiste and you will se how hard it is.

Glitter Stain
December 18th, 2008, 02:56 PM
And you didn't seem to read the rest of my point:
Similarities? Yes, they're somewhat similar... but that's where your point ends in validity. Astinus doesn't even post there unless she's moderating a thread. :|

I mean that the moderators who are in sole control of a forum have usually proved themselves to be active and responsible enough to eliminate the need for any additional moderators. Oh, and care to name and shame the supposed 'lock 'n' leave' moderators? I'm sure they'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Yeah, you know, I'd love to, but then I'd get infracted, and who would want that?
And yet when there's like three people to a forum that doesn't really need it, then guess what else could happen? Potential arguments over who gets to post the stickies, or who gets to implement the ideas, etc. Arguments that could be avoided in the first place if the forum weren't overstaffed.

Just because we can fill a forum with more mods, doesn't mean we need to or should.
Fighting? Generally everyone who's replied to this thread is just contradicting someone else who's trying to you know, invalidate my valid points. If they're as mature and capable as I've been told, they wouldn't be fighting over something so trivial, now, would they?

processr
December 18th, 2008, 03:03 PM
Similarities? Yes, they're somewhat similar... but that's where your point ends in validity. Astinus doesn't even post there unless she's moderating a thread. :|

Outside of the Fanfiction Lounge there isn't an awful lot of discussion in the writing forums, and thus the majority of posts she makes are likely to be reviews or moderation. Either way, she has still proved herself to be capable, and I'm sure that if she was struggling to cope she would recommend the appointment of another moderator. This doesn't even touch upon the point about super moderators and administrators who help out in the forum in addition to Astinus.

And besides, at first you were trying to detract from the point about Astinus, and now you're drawing attention to her? It would help if you didn't contradict your own points when you make a point about others' supposed contradictions.

Yeah, you know, I'd love to, but then I'd get infracted, and who would want that?

So maybe they'd appreciate it if you didn't go behind their backs to criticise their moderation, and then not have the guts to say their names in public, hmm?

Cherrim
December 18th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Just fyi, when you post your responses to me inside the quote it makes it ridiculously frustrating to reply because when I quote you, the responses aren't there. :(
Why does that not surprise me in the slightest? ^_^
Haha, I think I've started out half my thread replies to you like that. :(
Writing is writing... and posting is posting. Since all forums are generally based around posting information and opinions, should we just have digi-kun mod all the sections and can everyone else?
That... that doesn't make sense. The whole point of the Pokémon writing forum is to post your Pokémon-related writing to get feedback and reviews on it. The whole point of the Other Writing forum is to post your non-Pokémon-related writing to get feedback and reviews on it. The mod in either one should know the how that works and should make sure everyone else in the forum knows and follows the process. Whether it's Pokémon-related or not, I don't think it makes a difference.

And actually, I'd trust most mods to do the basic modding in any forum. When it comes to closing or moving threads, etc., it's usually straight-forward in any board. The reason we have mods in single (usually) forums is for the differences that make each forum... well... different. In the case of the forums that match (Pokémon & Other RP, Pokémon & Other Writing, Pokémon & Other Trivia, etc.), the forums are usually pretty similar with the subject matter being the only change. So mods often end up modding both (I know with the trivia forums it's by default but you know what I mean). Obviously there's MUCH less of a difference between the two Writing forums and say, Other Writing and the DPP forum. :/
Wut? If all the mods left S&M (seeing as they do provide most of the permissions and are the only ones that can implement new ideas well), I think the majority of the members would follow right behind them.
...we're talking about inactive sections and whether they need a mod or not... not really active sections that could hypothetically have every mod leave them. :| What the heck did that have to do with anything?
If a mod feels useless, they probably are. They CAN do things besides dictate, yell, and infract... they can post important stickies, implement new ideas to bring in activity, and all sorts of things that aren't affected by the number of trolls on the site.
I agree on some parts, but sometimes there just isn't much to do aside from basic modding. In an active forum it's... you know, already active. It doesn't need a jumpstart or anything so when you have lots of mods in there already and there isn't enough work, there's no reason to have so many.

And though it seems rather ideal to get a lovely coloured name with no responsibility, it actually kind of sucks to feel useless.

Glitter Stain
December 18th, 2008, 03:09 PM
Outside of the Fanfiction Lounge there isn't an awful lot of discussion in the writing forums, and thus the majority of posts she makes are likely to be reviews or moderation. Either way, she has still proved herself to be capable, and I'm sure that if she was struggling to cope she would recommend the appointment of another moderator. This doesn't even touch upon the point about super moderators and administrators who help out in the forum in addition to Astinus.
Now you're trying to defend your argument with a point that isn't quite valid anymore... since when is the only job of a mod to moderate threads?
And besides, at first you were trying to detract from the point about Astinus, and now you're drawing attention to her? It would help if you didn't contradict your own points when you make a point about others' supposed contradictions.

When did I try to detract attention to the point? It's still a pretty prominent point and has been since Post #1.

So maybe they'd appreciate it if you didn't go behind their backs to criticise their moderation, and then not have the guts to say their names in public, hmm?
Sorry, I didn't quite catch any of that last part.

Just fyi, when you post your responses to me inside the quote it makes it ridiculously frustrating to reply because when I quote you, the responses aren't there. :(

teehee

Haha, I think I've started out half my thread replies to you like that. :(

That... that doesn't make sense. The whole point of the Pokémon writing forum is to post your Pokémon-related writing to get feedback and reviews on it. The whole point of the Other Writing forum is to post your non-Pokémon-related writing to get feedback and reviews on it. The mod in either one should know the how that works and should make sure everyone else in the forum knows and follows the process. Whether it's Pokémon-related or not, I don't think it makes a difference.
Err... yes, but why should people be punished because the moderator of one of their favorite boards doesn't appear to be interested in the subject matter?
And actually, I'd trust most mods to do the basic modding in any forum. When it comes to closing or moving threads, etc., it's usually straight-forward in any board. The reason we have mods in single (usually) forums is for the differences that make each forum... well... different. In the case of the forums that match (Pokémon & Other RP, Pokémon & Other Writing, Pokémon & Other Trivia, etc.), the forums are usually pretty similar with the subject matter being the only change. So mods often end up modding both (I know with the trivia forums it's by default but you know what I mean). Obviously there's MUCH less of a difference between the two Writing forums and say, Other Writing and the DPP forum. :/[/font]

...we're talking about inactive sections and whether they need a mod or not... not really active sections that could hypothetically have every mod leave them. :| What the heck did that have to do with anything?
You just stated that a section having a fully-involved mod wouldn't really affect anything.
I agree on some parts, but sometimes there just isn't much to do aside from basic modding. In an active forum it's... you know, already active. It doesn't need a jumpstart or anything so when you have lots of mods in there already and there isn't enough work, there's no reason to have so many.
I get what you're saying and everything, but mods will always have periods of inactivity, will they not? If we've got an inactive mod or two in a section, and someone feels like acting up, how many members of the higher staff would actually like to clean up a mess?
And though it seems rather ideal to get a lovely coloured name with no responsibility, it actually kind of sucks to feel useless.
Just, you know, I have 25 characters and all, but they're in quotes and stuff.

processr
December 18th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Now you're trying to defend your argument with a point that isn't quite valid anymore... since when is the only job of a mod to moderate threads?

Sorry, what? Am I missing something, or are you suggesting that it's the job of users below moderators (ooh, look, that word has most of the word 'moderate' in - funny that) to moderate threads? You've gone completely off the original point of moderators having more than one forum to moderate.

When did I try to detract attention to the point? It's still a pretty prominent point and has been since Post #1.

When you said that your point didn't necessarily apply to Astinus herself, and was meant as a general example (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=4204867#post4204867).

Sorry, I didn't quite catch any of that last part.

To quote Pulp Fiction: "English [...] Do you speak it?"

If you're going to make the point that some forums have moderators that, in your own words, simply 'lock and leave' in an attempt to shame them, and then decline to name such moderators, you're making yourself look rather vindictive (or, you have no one to name in order to back your point up - your choice).

Zebra Thunderhead
December 18th, 2008, 03:21 PM
When did I try to detract attention to the point? It's still a pretty prominent point and has been since Post #1.

Actually, it wasn't a problem at all until you brought it up.

Some mods are inactive enough already. Giving mods too many sections decreases efficiency and to be honest kind of affirms any trace of elitism.

Nobody is elitist because they have more forums than someone else. Maybe you would be if you were to be a mod, but currently that's not the case and that point is void. And there's this crazy new concept of having a life outside of the Internet. Maybe you haven't heard of it - it's pretty rad!

Why infraction points shouldn't be a heavy factor in modding:

Would you hire somebody at your workplace if he/she had a criminal record? In essence, it's the same thing.

Why even inactive sections need a mod of their own:

What forum(s) are you even talking about?

Why it doesn't hurt to double up on mods:

That's silly. We have enough already and we're all doing a fantastic job. Unless this is some sly, subliminal ploy to get us to mod you. In which case, haha.

Thomas
December 18th, 2008, 03:26 PM
I love when threads like this get posted. xD

Anyway...listen...

The guys here have worked for more than 6 years working on perfecting the moderation system, and it works the majority of the time. So really you need to just stop whining.

Sylphiel
December 18th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Yeah, you know, I'd love to, but then I'd get infracted, and who would want that?

Fighting? Generally everyone who's replied to this thread is just contradicting someone else who's trying to you know, invalidate my valid points. If they're as mature and capable as I've been told, they wouldn't be fighting over something so trivial, now, would they?
Wasn't implying actual fighting, more like having to decide who gets to do what. Sometimes that takes more than just "oh yeah you can do this", because you're talking about multiple people, often with multiple opinions as well.

And I'd hardly call things like that "trivial" when they're supposedly part of the job. I've been there, done that, with the whole "feeling useless because someone else is doing everything" deal - and believe me, it can lead to some rather hard feelings, especially when you're actually trying to do the job you're meant to do.

Not everyone who feels useless is useless - there are some people who honestly do try to do things, but can't because there's literally nothing for them to do. Why put someone new into a forum if they're just going to end up like that? What's the point?

Glitter Stain
December 18th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Actually, it wasn't a problem at all until you brought it up.

Are fish not fish until they are called fish? If I called a fish by some other name than a fish, wouldn't it still be a fish?

Nobody is elitist because they have more forums than someone else. Maybe you would be if you were to be a mod, but currently that's not the case and that point is void. And there's this crazy new concept of having a life outside of the Internet. Maybe you haven't heard of it - it's pretty rad!

And yet people ARE elitist when they think that their blue username comes with the permission to be completely rude and act like their pointy points are so much pointier than anyone else's. ^_^

Would you hire somebody at your workplace if he/she had a criminal record? In essence, it's the same thing.

Um, depends. I mean, mods don't have access to the Admin CP. I'd hire them as a janitor, or a receptionist, which is all a mod apparently is, according to what I've read in these responses.

What forum(s) are you even talking about?

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. :|||||||

That's silly. We have enough already and we're all doing a fantastic job. Unless this is some sly, subliminal ploy to get us to mod you. In which case, haha.
Clearly you're either joking or completely out of your mind. If you were all doing such a fantastic job (I'm not insulting anyone here), I wouldn't have made this thread. And trust me-- if I were trying to become a mod by any illegitimate means this thread would've already been locked.

bgt
December 18th, 2008, 03:33 PM
Clearly this thread is retarded.

If we feel additional staff is required, we will make the changes.

End of story.

Rukario
December 18th, 2008, 03:39 PM
hmm.. while I can sorta see where you're coming from and all that, the system we have now, one that took a few years to get working just right I may add, is fine and covers 98% of the issues that PC generates. While I myelf would like to see more mods per section/area, what has been said above is a valid reason as to why we don't have more.. They'd need more to do or get bored and quit. Or worse, not get along with their co-mods and never get anything done - BOOM!

Despite what everyone else is replying, the staff has (or will) see your thoughts and do what they feel needs to be done with them, if anything at all.