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View Full Version : 9/11 truth and NWO: Do you believe?


Darth Reven82
December 23rd, 2008, 08:50 AM
I'm sure you've all heard of the New World Order and 9/11 truth movement. If you haven't just research it.

I'd prefer if you have done some research on it when you post in this topic, as it will sound more intelligent if you do. I'd give you links to documentaries and articles, but I can't post URLs at the moment. I'll come back later when I can, and they'll be up here.

Also, I'd like to see intelligent, mature debating, and people giving their opinions, not a big huge argument.

Virtual Chatot
December 23rd, 2008, 08:54 AM
There is some evidence to show that 9/11 was rigged to some degree. ( only a quarter of the people who worked at the build were there on September 11th, President Bush's cousin owned a building not far from the Twin Towers which he demolished and collected millions on insurance )

As far as a New World Order goes, I don't think so

processr
December 23rd, 2008, 09:05 AM
My honest opinion: A load of rubbish.

Conspiracy theories arise after almost every major event. The sinking of RMS Titanic, the assassination of John F Kennedy, Roswell. People inherently question what they read, see and hear - and rightly so, in my opinion - but when people try to find motives and possible alternative explanations for such events it gets out of hand. Most allegations in regards to conspiracy theories fall flat when the lack of evidence or evidence pointing to the contrary is brought up.

Gold warehouse
December 23rd, 2008, 09:22 AM
There were many things that could have been done better and there are many questions arisen; but no, I don't agree with them. Killing that many of your own innocent civilians and causing that amount of destruction on your own soil is too much; to be honest I think it's a bunch of anarchists grasping on whatever they can get to spread as propaganda and it's disrespectful to those who died.

Virtual Chatot
December 23rd, 2008, 09:24 AM
...it's disrespectful to those who died.I don't see how its disrespectful to those who died whether they were killed by Islamic Extremists or the American Government...

Stronkadonk
December 23rd, 2008, 09:32 AM
Well, I have heard many different things about it being all set up.
First off, there was a letter sent saying, today will be an awful day to live in NYC.
Then, there were some bombs planted into the trade center.
Next, the witnesses of the Pentagon one were "taken care of" as their cameras were taken away, and they were threatened.
There weren't any fragments of plane left at the Pentagon, either.
And finally, there were 2 jets flying in Pennsylvania as well. The "heroes" of the flight going down, may not have been heroes at all. I still regret their loss, and think it as a tragedy, but those 2 jets destroyed that plane.
I have not heard of the New World Order, though.

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
December 23rd, 2008, 10:33 AM
My message to conspiracy theorists is... Have fun folding your $20 bills and doing your homework on Wikipedia.

Maybe someday we'll be able to send you to the moon in a Boeing 767.

Cherrim
December 23rd, 2008, 11:14 AM
I don't believe in any conspiracy theories regarding 911. There are conspiracy theories for everything under the sun but that's all they are--theories.
I don't see how its disrespectful to those who died whether they were killed by Islamic Extremists or the American Government...
It's one thing to be killed by a hate group and another thing entirely to be killed at the hands of your own government which you trusted and were patriotic to.

It's not only disrespectful to the dead, but especially their surviving family. For those trying to just put everything to rest, seeing conspiracy theories involving the government that, to some extent, helped them get through their times of need/gave them something to believe in would be rather insulting, I would think. :/

jasonresno
December 23rd, 2008, 11:24 AM
Not to step on toes or trounce beliefs or anything but at some point people begin to make up whack theories just for the sake of doing it. I hardly believe the creators of this "belief" truly buy it. 9/11 was a tragedy and it cheapens us all as humans and as a country to believe it was rigged.

Darth Reven82
December 23rd, 2008, 11:38 AM
While there are many conspiracy theories, isn't the "official" story just a theory too?

They still haven't released the video showing a plane hitting the Pentagon, and there's still no logical explanation from the "officials" on why the buildings collapsed the way they did, especially building 7. Also, the way fire burns the buildings should have fallen on their sides and not in like a controlled demolition. There was also molten metal in the base of all 3 collapsed buildings, and you can't get molten metal with jet fuel. Jet fuel fires are around 1500 degrees, while it takes over 2000 degrees to melt metal, and jet fuel can't get hot enough to vaporize a plane either, or otherwise we wouldn't be burning it in a jet to begin with.

I'm sorry, but I have to think logically about this and use the scientific method to come up with my answer. As of now, I do believe the government was behind 9/11 and until someone can bring me scientific evidence showing me that I'm wrong I will not budge.

As for whether this is respectful or not, right or wrong: It's not a matter of that. I personally don't like the idea that everyone believes what the government says is true just because they're authorities. Just because they're authorities, I won't even mention the fact that WE THE PEOPLE are the true leaders of this country, doesn't meant they can't lie.

processr
December 23rd, 2008, 11:41 AM
Not much to add to the matter while I'm not in a 'wall o' text' kind of mood, other than I've seen video of the plane hitting the Pentagon on, ironically, a television programme about 9/11 conspiracy theories. And before you ask, it debunked them completely. =/

EDIT: There we go, a story from May 2006. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4987716.stm)

Darth Reven82
December 23rd, 2008, 11:53 AM
If there are videos, can you present them?

Avey
December 23rd, 2008, 11:58 AM
What happen on 9/11 is what we've been told happened. Four planes were hijacked. Two smashed into the twin towers. Another crashed into the Pentagon. The last crashed into a field in Pennsylvania after the passengers managed to fight with the hijackers. It's widely believed that the fourth plane was heading towards the White House in Washington D.C.

There's nothing more to it. There are naturally going to be conspiracy theories but that doesn't mean they're worth believing in.

processr
December 23rd, 2008, 12:02 PM
If there are videos, can you present them?

There was the link to one on the new story I linked you to, but I'm not sure if you'd be able to watch it given that I'd guess you're from the US. I'll try and find another.

Stronkadonk
December 23rd, 2008, 12:03 PM
What I said was merely what others have told me, I really don't care what really happened, all I know, is that is shouldn't have happened.

Mitchman
December 23rd, 2008, 12:21 PM
I dont believe them at all but they sound interesting. Especially the one of bush smoking a cigar with saddams half brother while watching the pentagon burn and all the jewish people not being there. And new world order i believe is rubbish. But thats it as the whole 9/11 incident was real for me and i dont want to talk much on it.

Stronkadonk
December 23rd, 2008, 12:57 PM
I dont believe them at all but they sound interesting. Especially the one of bush smoking a cigar with saddams half brother while watching the pentagon burn and all the jewish people not being there. And new world order i believe is rubbish. But thats it as the whole 9/11 incident was real for me and i dont want to talk much on it.
Some people did take it hard, and should not talk about it, so yeah...
But I don't believe Bush was a smokin' with Saddam's Bro.
BUT he WAS having a party or something on a Ranch with the Bin Laden family, so I've heard.

Mitchman
December 23rd, 2008, 01:05 PM
Never watched Michael Moore's movie have yeh? Its intresting stuff. Anyway i took it real hard. My dad was saved by a deam of the virgin mary that he had.

raven_emblem
December 23rd, 2008, 01:07 PM
i know who did 9/11 it was our own government

Mitchman
December 23rd, 2008, 01:13 PM
In a strange way i believe that and not conspiracies. Dunno why though.

Darth Reven82
December 23rd, 2008, 01:58 PM
What happen on 9/11 is what we've been told happened. Four planes were hijacked. Two smashed into the twin towers. Another crashed into the Pentagon. The last crashed into a field in Pennsylvania after the passengers managed to fight with the hijackers. It's widely believed that the fourth plane was heading towards the White House in Washington D.C.

There's nothing more to it. There are naturally going to be conspiracy theories but that doesn't mean they're worth believing in.

That's what we were told, but that doesn't mean it's true. The official story doesn't agree with the laws of physics from my point of view.

I normally don't buy into conspiracy theories, but when you research and the conspiracy theory seems more likely AND logical than the official theory I do start to believe it.

If you want some evidence, the best thing to do would be to go to Google and search for "9/11 Blueprint for Truth". and watch the documentaries "Zeitgeist: The Movie" and "Zeitgeist Addendum" which go into detail about these things.

Aurafire
December 23rd, 2008, 02:55 PM
While there are many conspiracy theories, isn't the "official" story just a theory too?

They still haven't released the video showing a plane hitting the Pentagon, and there's still no logical explanation from the "officials" on why the buildings collapsed the way they did, especially building 7. Also, the way fire burns the buildings should have fallen on their sides and not in like a controlled demolition. There was also molten metal in the base of all 3 collapsed buildings, and you can't get molten metal with jet fuel. Jet fuel fires are around 1500 degrees, while it takes over 2000 degrees to melt metal, and jet fuel can't get hot enough to vaporize a plane either, or otherwise we wouldn't be burning it in a jet to begin with.

I'm sorry, but I have to think logically about this and use the scientific method to come up with my answer. As of now, I do believe the government was behind 9/11 and until someone can bring me scientific evidence showing me that I'm wrong I will not budge.

As for whether this is respectful or not, right or wrong: It's not a matter of that. I personally don't like the idea that everyone believes what the government says is true just because they're authorities. Just because they're authorities, I won't even mention the fact that WE THE PEOPLE are the true leaders of this country, doesn't meant they can't lie.

I don't disrespect this opinion at all, but this is not logical. This whole thing about jet fuel burning at 1500 degrees and "metal" melting at 2000 is one of the common things I've heard in these theories and it's the weakest argument. I don't care what temperature those steel beams melt at...When a fully-fueled full-size passenger jet crashes into tall buildings like the twin towers, the structural integrity of the buildings will be weakened. It is not a matter of the melting point of steel...The strength of those beams, when subject to any significant amount of heat, will change, and with thousands upon thousand of tons bearing down on them in addition to the physical altering of the beams when the planes hit, the structure was weakened. You simply cannot tell me that the fact that those steel beams don't melt at the temperature that jet fuel burns means that 9/11 had to be a conspiracy.

There's no proof of any of this being true, and there hasn't been any solid evidence showing that the U.S. government was involved in the 9/11 attacks. Don't you think that if there was, the media would have pounced on it right away?

Master Electrician
December 23rd, 2008, 03:01 PM
Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the most correct.

Firstly, there are any number of videos, news articles, programs, etc. debunking the conspiracy claims. Popular Mechanics did a decent piece on it, the link is here (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html).

Secondly, the vast majority of 9/11 Truth evidence is built out of armchair science. That alone is rather dubious.

Thirdly, assuming this was indeed a rigged event, the security and operation behind it is much too sloppy to meet even the CIA's shoddy secrecy laws. If the "truth" can be uncovered by a bunch of stoned college kids and reclusive pseudo-intellectuals, then we're more boned than we already are.

Finally, a point of logic: Why rig the demolition within the building? It's unnecessary, especially if you're going to crash a large object into it at high velocity. Much easier to simply use said large object and pack that with explosives if required.

Amachi
December 23rd, 2008, 03:35 PM
9/11 truthers? Get out.

If these "truthers" are right and the American Government is somehow responsible for the death of thousands of their own people on their own soil and broadcast all over the world.

Why haven't these "truthers" been killed as well, genius?

Michii
December 23rd, 2008, 05:53 PM
The September eleventh truthers need to think things over.

September eleventh was truely a devastating day that changed the lives of millions of people around the world. It was an evil terrorist attack against the United States. A terrorist attack. Not George Bush and the government's plan. While I admit that our government lacks many aspects of a good one, not to mention the lack of good presidency, I am almost completely sure that a country would conspire to kill its own people and cause mass money in damages. Bad things happen to good people. There isn't always a secret reason that explains it. Some people in the world are just evil, and we have to accept that.

As a child who has friends who's fathers were at the site on the day, who watched kid by kid pulled out of school early in panic, and who saw the skyline of New York City that night with all the black smoke on the way to see her cousin, I can safely say that 9/11 was a terrorist attack. All logical evidence leads up to terrorist attacks, while there is no remotely solid and sound proof that it was a conspiracy.

I Laugh at your Misfortune!
December 23rd, 2008, 06:16 PM
This mainly applies to the UK, but there was one thing on the BBC. While a news correspondant was standing in New York, saying that the twin towers had both been hit by planes and had fallen down. But in the background, you could see one of the twin towers, very much still standing.

I bet someone got fired for that...

Darth Reven82
December 24th, 2008, 06:14 AM
While the 9/11 theories may not be confirmed, you cannot say that the government hasn't done immoral things or lie to us about things that cost the lives of thousands of Americans. There's no doubt that they lied about Irag having WMDs, and look at how many Americans have been killed, not to mention thousands, perhaps millions of innocent Iragi women and children.

How many times did the govt lie to use before? What about Vietnam?

The people in the government are human beings, and human beings, especially in a position of power, tend to do corrupt things such as lying and harming innocent people to further their own profits, and to increase or maintain their power. Just because someone is "important" doesn't mean they can be trusted, in fact a person in power is more likely to lie than one who isn't.

Everyone should remember Nazi Germany; the Germans believed everything their government told them, and thought it was wrong to accuse them of evil acts. Look what happened. America could go the same route if the people become too trusting of their government. I believe that not questioning the official story is more dangerous than having an alternative theory that's incorrect, since there is a high possibility that the alternative may be right.

jasonresno
December 31st, 2008, 02:35 PM
While the 9/11 theories may not be confirmed, you cannot say that the government hasn't done immoral things or lie to us about things that cost the lives of thousands of Americans. There's no doubt that they lied about Irag having WMDs, and look at how many Americans have been killed, not to mention thousands, perhaps millions of innocent Iragi women and children.

How many times did the govt lie to use before? What about Vietnam?

The people in the government are human beings, and human beings, especially in a position of power, tend to do corrupt things such as lying and harming innocent people to further their own profits, and to increase or maintain their power. Just because someone is "important" doesn't mean they can be trusted, in fact a person in power is more likely to lie than one who isn't.

Everyone should remember Nazi Germany; the Germans believed everything their government told them, and thought it was wrong to accuse them of evil acts. Look what happened. America could go the same route if the people become too trusting of their government. I believe that not questioning the official story is more dangerous than having an alternative theory that's incorrect, since there is a high possibility that the alternative may be right.
That's the thing though. It's good and right to be logical and not to blindly accept things but...it's not healthy to buy into these, quite frankly insane, conspiracy theories. There isn't a high possibility that it is right. It's flat out wrong and there isn't any evidence to point towards it being anything other than an honest to God terrorist attack.