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Mrchewy
December 31st, 2008, 07:25 PM
I've been around for a while now, spending most of my time in the Hacks and Game Development sections. Anyway, to be very blunt, I think there needs to be some rules/requirements for threads in the Game Showcase forum.

The Hacks Showcase forum has had established thread requirements for quite some time, and it generally means that only games of acceptable quality are accepted and displayed in the showcase. The Games Showcase forum, however, has very few posting requirements despite being just as big as Hacks Showcase.

The biggest problem is, Pokémon games using RPG Maker are now just so much more easier to make than hacks. Generally, to even produce a mediocre hack the author needs to at least be quite familiar with all the tools, editing and scripting necessary. Using the RPG Maker Starter Kit requires little to no knowledge, leading to games of low quality.

I think it's reached the point now where fangame development is rapidly catching up to the popularity of hacking, and the currently very relaxed requirements need to be ramped up a bit to match that of Hacks Showcase. Not only will it encourage developers to gain better understanding of the game making progress, but it'll keep the forum much more tidy and useful.

December 31st, 2008, 07:52 PM
Can I put a few cents in (I'm broke, so this won't take long)? There is the occasional topic where the maps are bland, the plot has not been thought out for more than three minutes, there's no demo at all, and they generally are jumping in too quickly. Having Avatar approve the topics would cure the issue 'cause several topics belong in the plot forum, not the Showcase forum, because they just are not up to the quality demanded by the community. If decent threads wait to get moved from the plot forum to the showcase forum, then why do some games start in the showcas forum when they are behind the ones that have not moved yet?

Ninja Caterpie
December 31st, 2008, 08:01 PM
Huh. The main reason we have a pristine Showcase is because the threads there have to be approved first, and now we have a new section in the middle. Maybe you guys need a third section too? Plot space, progressing games and games showcase, the Showcase for high quality games with playable demos. :\

Mr. Downstairs
December 31st, 2008, 08:06 PM
Before making a thread...
http://www.pokecommunity.com/images/misc/sticky.gif Does it comply with the thread requirements? (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=3531303#reqs)
http://www.pokecommunity.com/images/misc/sticky.gif Does it comply with the forum-specific rules and notices? (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=3531303#rules)
http://www.pokecommunity.com/images/misc/sticky.gif Have you read the restrictions for the entire forum? (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=3531303#main)

^ Is that not good enough?

I think Avatar did a wonderful covering just about everything I can think of.

Mrchewy
December 31st, 2008, 08:29 PM
^ Is that not good enough?

I think Avatar did a wonderful covering just about everything I can think of.

There's two problems with the regulations already in place. Firstly, they're too lax. The Starter Kit has reached a stage now where making games has become so unbelievably easy. The only realy requirements are having a mediocre story and four screenshots; this is by far not enough. No matter how bad the screenshots are, as long as there's four it can go in the Showcase. Two minutes of making some quick maps and Print Screening them into Paint is pretty much all it takes.

Secondly, even these regulations aren't strictly enforced. Sadly enough there have been games which don't even meet these barebone requirements, and still linger in the Showcase when they're barely even suitable for the Ideas section.

The current regulations would be enough presuming they applied to games made from complete scratch, without the starter kit. While there are some games made from complete scratch (and these games ironically nearly always trump Kit-made games in quality), if you consider that 90% of all the games in the forum using the pre-made graphics, systems and scripts from the Starter Kit, the requirements are just way too low.

To be honest, I agree with Agent Zero. Threads need to be approved before people can just dump them in there.

Edit: I also noticed something very interesting. The Game Development section, which is nearly identical to the Emulation section in terms of post count, has only one Moderator. The Emulation forums have three.

Mr. Downstairs
December 31st, 2008, 09:15 PM
There's two problems with the regulations already in place. Firstly, they're too lax. The Starter Kit has reached a stage now where making games has become so unbelievably easy. The only realy requirements are having a mediocre story and four screenshots; this is by far not enough. No matter how bad the screenshots are, as long as there's four it can go in the Showcase. Two minutes of making some quick maps and Print Screening them into Paint is pretty much all it takes.

Secondly, even these regulations aren't strictly enforced. Sadly enough there have been games which don't even meet these barebone requirements, and still linger in the Showcase when they're barely even suitable for the Ideas section.

The current regulations would be enough presuming they applied to games made from complete scratch, without the starter kit. While there are some games made from complete scratch (and these games ironically nearly always trump Kit-made games in quality), if you consider that 90% of all the games in the forum using the pre-made graphics, systems and scripts from the Starter Kit, the requirements are just way too low.

To be honest, I agree with Agent Zero. Threads need to be approved before people can just dump them in there.

Edit: I also noticed something very interesting. The Game Development section, which is nearly identical to the Emulation section in terms of post count, has only one Moderator. The Emulation forums have three.

If you don't like the rules, just talk to the moderator of that section (in this case, Avatar). Making a thread pointing out the flaws of the rules isn't going to get you any more attention from him than contacting him through private message about the issues that you're concerned about. But know that some moderators are more lax in other forums than others and it's really up to them to decide their standards of posting. As per the amount of moderators, though I am not involved in that decision, perhaps it's like that for a reason? Rom Hacking is a lot more popular among the community than making your own game from scratch, so it's only reasonable to have more moderators on a more popular forum compared to a less popular forum such as Game Development.

Zet
December 31st, 2008, 09:18 PM
it's easier to talk to the mod of the section about the rules as Aurapostle has been posting. And does it really matter what people use? people can use what they want instead of downloading some starter kit

and since emulation is much bigger theres going to be more spam than a game development section so really there isn't any major issues

Mrchewy
January 1st, 2009, 02:21 AM
and since emulation is much bigger theres going to be more spam than a game development section so really there isn't any major issues

Comparing sizes isn't fair at all, considering Pokémon hacking has been around for a lot longer than the more recent RMXP craze. ROM hacking has had ages to build up momentum and a subcommunity of its own. When you look at the rate game development is growing, theres a serious possibility that the community accosciated with it will match hacking in terms of size, given enough time. This doesn't just apply to RMXP per se, but to indie game development as a whole.

The problem isn't at all with what tools they use. What I'm saying is that, you'd expect a game to be higher quality if it was made using many things that were already pre-made. If someone comes along and develops a full-fledged Pokémon battle/stats system without any help or special tools, obviously it's a massive achievement on it's own and people shouldn't expect too much. When someone uses tons of pre-made, third party, refined resources, clearly they are expected to produce a finished product of high quality (otherwise it's just laziness).

But yeah, I'll probably suggest this to Avatar soon, just wanted to share my two cents (or rather, twenty cents, lol).