PDA

View Full Version : World War I


Dakota
January 27th, 2009, 01:42 PM
World War I. A hell of a war. A reason for pain today?

What do you feel about the war, and if it never (along with II) happened, would the world be any different?

(This is related to a school project. LOLZ)

Signomi
January 27th, 2009, 02:08 PM
Threads on the topic of war has potential depth and theoretical aptitude; which means that this should be in Other Chat, where such discussion is best suited to take place.

~Moved

icomeanon6
January 27th, 2009, 02:27 PM
World War I was the epitome of stupid, completely pointless wars. There was nothing at stake there except national pride, and everyone knew it. WWII is different, there was a lot at stake there. In fact, if it hadn't been for the Allies' need to maintain their pride, there wouldn't have been a WWII. If we hadn't demanded such unreasonable reparations from Germany, they wouldn't have entered as deep an economic hole as they did. And, if that had never occurred, then there wouldn't have been the kind of broken, desperate Germany that turned to someone like Hitler.

There were no good guys in WWI, just a bunch of stupid countries who didn't have the strength to not fear appearing weak. It wasn't the worst war in history by itself, but it led to something so much worse. Anyone who thinks that America was on the right side in that war is just wrong. We should have stayed out.

Fox♠
January 27th, 2009, 02:30 PM
World War I was the epitome of stupid, completely pointless wars. There was nothing at stake there except national pride, and everyone knew it. WWII is different, there was a lot at stake there. In fact, if it hadn't been for the Allies' need to maintain their pride, there wouldn't have been a WWII. If we hadn't demanded such unreasonable reparations from Germany, they wouldn't have entered as deep an economic hole as they did. And, if that had never occurred, then there wouldn't have been the kind of broken, desperate Germany that turned to someone like Hitler.

There were no good guys in WWI, just a bunch of stupid countries who didn't have the strength to not fear appearing weak. It wasn't the worst war in history by itself, but it led to something so much worse. Anyone who thinks that America was on the right side in that war is just wrong. We should have stayed out.

You do realise Britain entered WW1 after Belgium had being invaded don't you? It's a lot deeper than you make it out to be. Germany would of gone on to invade france and then us.

Speaking of you guys staying out, thanks for the fantastic effort in taking out Nazism in 39-41, couldn;t of done it without you, oh..wait ;)

True Reign
January 27th, 2009, 03:02 PM
Germany, back then, was a strong nation and very hard to defeat. If there wasn't a World War I or II, there would eventually be one since Germany would be just be getting stronger and stronger eventually being a superpower.

Imagine that.

Gumball Watterson
January 27th, 2009, 03:12 PM
-;4315066']Germany, back then, was a strong nation and very hard to defeat. If there wasn't a World War I or II, there would eventually be one since Germany would be just be getting stronger and stronger eventually being a superpower.

Imagine that.

Meh, how bad could it be?... Oh wait...

The world, yes, would be very different if there was no major war started. If the Germans never wanted so much power, then probably there wouldn't be any WW and no UN, thus, we would be crapped up like we are now except 15 years earlier.

Oh, and Disney would've never advanced so much, like the banned episode were Donald Duck goes

"eerrm uh.... HAIL HITLER HAIL HITLER!... ooofff"

Yeah, no toons today either.

Cassino
January 27th, 2009, 03:21 PM
War itself would be slightly different. There would be no international treaty on gas and fire-throwing weapons.
There would possibly be no such thing as an assault rifle, tank or missile either (and of course the things made to destroy those inventions, such as anti-tank guns).

The world would be no different though, for intelligence has blessed us with both an arm for embracing and an arm for punching.

If we hadn't demanded such unreasonable reparations from Germany, they wouldn't have entered as deep an economic hole as they did. And, if that had never occurred, then there wouldn't have been the kind of broken, desperate Germany that turned to someone like Hitler.
A stark reminder of the movie "Hitler: The Rise of Evil". He was really cheesed off about WWI, especially since he fought in it.

devilicious
January 27th, 2009, 03:23 PM
If neither war happened, I bet we would still be fantasizing with airplanes and submarines.
In fact, our science would be so primitive that I'm not ever sure if we'd have color in our TVs.

spoilers: I'm being overdramatic.

Cassino
January 27th, 2009, 03:30 PM
If neither war happened, I bet we would still be fantasizing with airplanes and submarines.
Jet aircraft — pioneered by Britain since before WWII.
Submarine — invented 1775.

devilicious
January 27th, 2009, 03:33 PM
Jet aircraft — pioneered by Britain since before WWII.
Submarine — invented 1775.
spoilers: I'm being overdramatic.

Uh, yeah. I was just saying that our technology wouldn't be as advanced.

Netto Azure
January 27th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Wow, coincidentally we're talking about WWI in World History class right now. =D
Anywayz, when we talked about the Most major cause of the war's expanion outside of the AH-Serbia conflict (Out of Nationalism, Militarism, Alliances, and Imperialism) Our class almost unanimously said that Alliances expanded the war to engulf all of Europe.

This is a good topic BTW since "The Lost Generation" is usually forgotten and overshadowed by WWII and the Cold War.

You do realise Britain entered WW1 after Belgium had being invaded don't you? It's a lot deeper than you make it out to be. Germany would of gone on to invade france and then us.

Speaking of you guys staying out, thanks for the fantastic effort in taking out Nazism in 39-41, couldn;t of done it without you, oh..wait ;)

The weird thing is, you're also not including the Strong isolationist movement in the US in your argument.

It was also fun to read a Teen Alternate History book talking about a Future where The Schlieffen Plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieffen_Plan) actually worked, Called Curious Notions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curious_Notions).
I know that the book is aimed at teens, but it's still fun. Really got me into Alternate History. =P

But still W/O WWI the world would probably be mostly imperialistic. I actually believe that time travel is bad since any change in the timeline can have dramatic consequences. So I prefer Parallel Universe Travel. XD

Also I answered "Yes" on the Poll..."But what would be different?" = What does that mean?

Cassino
January 27th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Uh, yeah. I was just saying that our technology wouldn't be as advanced.
Oh, okay, I thought just the bit about TVs was being overdramatic.

♣Gawain♣
January 27th, 2009, 05:42 PM
Very different. Today's alliances will be for naught without the war. It is the war(2) that the world created the UN for better peace and no outbreak of wars. And the technologies today will be different.

Rioku_Zanketa
January 27th, 2009, 05:49 PM
World War I was the epitome of stupid, completely pointless wars. There was nothing at stake there except national pride, and everyone knew it. WWII is different, there was a lot at stake there. In fact, if it hadn't been for the Allies' need to maintain their pride, there wouldn't have been a WWII. If we hadn't demanded such unreasonable reparations from Germany, they wouldn't have entered as deep an economic hole as they did. And, if that had never occurred, then there wouldn't have been the kind of broken, desperate Germany that turned to someone like Hitler.

There were no good guys in WWI, just a bunch of stupid countries who didn't have the strength to not fear appearing weak. It wasn't the worst war in history by itself, but it led to something so much worse. Anyone who thinks that America was on the right side in that war is just wrong. We should have stayed out.



Ignorant people are people nonetheless. So in a sense, there are goodguys. And here in America, the majority tend to think so. Sounds strange, but Americans are forcibly the good guys, whether having WWI was right or not.

Anywho, I think that if it didn't happen,...I dunno. It could lead to some paradox where the Soviet were the first to launch their people into space. If that happened, for all we know, that could've given them a strong sense of pride, which could possibly in turn lead to one of us pressing the big red button when we were pointing our N. Missiles at each other.(or worse; Soviet invasion.) With one change comes the possibility of a thousand. We never know what could've happened without that war.

Aether
January 27th, 2009, 06:06 PM
I've heard that stealing a speck of dust from the past would meteorically impact us in the present. I dread to know what now would be like if World War I never happened.

>Feelings<
January 27th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Yes, a lot of things would be different today if World Wars never took place.

A lot of good changes could have happened, like a lot more people still living and passing down descendants.
Particulary, destructions would have been reversed and a lot of Jews would still live?
Many political borders would no longer be like what you see today either. There are a lot more.

Even if war in general is never good, it is true that if World wars never happened, there would be more bad changes than good.
Many political borders have changed for the war.
Weaponary is given more priority now than it was before, and they were improved a lot.
Technology today is much better for the war too.
More importantly, most of the modern medicines were made around that time, and most of the newer and improved ways of surgery has been invented around that time. This is primarily because a lot of people were injured or dead that time, and the surgeons knew the ones alive would die anyways, so they started experimenting with those bodies and found out a lot more about it.
Some important organisations and alliances would not exist today. There are a lot more.

Most importantly, World Wars have taught everyone the bad sides of a war.
It has shown everyone the terrors and destruction wars in general can bring.
If world war never happened, people wouldn't be that afraid of wars, and then some war would take place every now and then, and a universal war now can be the main reason for world destruction, with the modern technology these days.

s0nido
January 28th, 2009, 01:32 AM
If there were no wars, there would be no mistakes to learn from. Germany would hate the rest of Europe, and Europe wouldn't be the unite power it is today.

ErickaVolt
January 28th, 2009, 05:03 AM
If WWI never happened then nations would still fight for their territory against foreign invaders today. Our technologies would be different either futuristic nanotechnology or remains stone age technology. That means internet is not yet INVENTED to this day. Then there would be Jews running the Earth.

Anti
January 28th, 2009, 09:08 AM
-;4315066']Germany, back then, was a strong nation and very hard to defeat. If there wasn't a World War I or II, there would eventually be one since Germany would be just be getting stronger and stronger eventually being a superpower.

Imagine that.

So you're saying that Germany getting stronger and stronger would inevitably lead to a world war? It's not like Germany was a predetermined "bad guy" in 1871 when it united under Bismarck and William I, lol. Hitler's rise to power, largely a result of WW1 and its aftermath, was the reason Germany was the "bad guy."

World War I. A hell of a war. A reason for pain today?

What do you feel about the war, and if it never (along with II) happened, would the world be any different?

(This is related to a school project. LOLZ)

As far as this is concerned, absolutely. We'll never know what Europe would have been like, but WW1 led to a lot of stuff (like...World War II lol).

What they did in Paris to the Middle East especially sucked. They really did not handle the demise of the Ottoman Empire very well -_-

matt561
January 28th, 2009, 09:52 AM
Everybody seems to have forgot

The world wars allthough terrible have given the world brilliant new breakthroughs in metals,explosives,production lines,manufactoring procedures and most of all health care

Gold warehouse
January 28th, 2009, 10:58 AM
Of course the world would be different; about 100 million would still be alive, the world would be drastically different. It could be worse, it could be better but we will never know.
Perhaps the Cold War would have been very different, there could have been a war far worse than WWII; a war between the Soviet Union and the USA would have been far more destructive I think...

Germany would be just be getting stronger and stronger eventually being a superpower.

Germany may not be classed as a superpower today but they have the fourth largest economy in the world, only recently knocked off the 3rd spot by China.

then there wouldn't have been the kind of broken, desperate Germany that turned to someone like Hitler.

You think Hitler was the only one that could've repaired that nation? I'm sure somebody else that wasn't an extremist could've repaired the economy; Hitler only rebuilt the nation for war anyway.

s0nido
January 28th, 2009, 12:23 PM
If World War I didn't occur, advancements in technology would be slower, as the urgency of war sped up the research of various new technologies. Some of those technologies we could've gone without. Still, though, war is part of human nature, to fight for your territory. The world would be a better place for sure without war, but sadly, this isn't possible, unless everyone on Earth was united in one cause.

Netto Azure
January 28th, 2009, 12:47 PM
Well if WWI didn't occur, the German's would have probably developed the Atomic Bomb first (Due to the Lack of oppressive antisemitism and massive nationalism) and Britain and France would still be Colonial Powers, the US still Isolationist. But it's highly unlikely not to occur due to the tension already built up at that time. (For the reason's I put in my first post)

True Reign
January 29th, 2009, 02:56 PM
So you're saying that Germany getting stronger and stronger would inevitably lead to a world war? It's not like Germany was a predetermined "bad guy" in 1871 when it united under Bismarck and William I, lol. Hitler's rise to power, largely a result of WW1 and its aftermath, was the reason Germany was the "bad guy."

Germany was very strong before World War I. I'm not saying they were the bad guy, I was just stating how powerful they were and I how powerful they would be in the world today.

~MasterMind~
January 29th, 2009, 02:59 PM
i havent studied that much on it
and i really don't know if it could of been different but all i can say is a lot of things could have probably been prevented if it didnt happen sooo i really don't know

Netto Azure
February 17th, 2009, 09:26 PM
Sorry for reviving the thread but I need help for an Essay:

If you can change anything in the Treaty of Versailles (and other treaties) that can help prevent World War 2, What would they be?

Criteria:
Is it a DEFINITE change?
Will it help Prevent World War 2?
How will you convince the Big 4 to agree? (US, France, Great Britain, and Italy)

Agent Cobalt
February 17th, 2009, 10:36 PM
The world would absolutely be different today. There would have been no WWII, no Cold War, and no War on Terror. Without WWI and specifically its ending/outcome, countries like Germany and Russia would have never lost portions of their territory. You'll all remember that Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia worked together to reclaim lands like Poland that they had lost as a result of the war's ending. Those invasions of other countries sparked WWII, along with Italy and Japan adventuring in Africa and Manchuria of course. Likely such militarism would exist but it's existed in every society of every time in some form or another, so we can't pin THAT on WWI alone.

Let's remember the true roots of the world wars after WWI- ideology.

Russia pulled out of WWI because of the Russian Revolution. Vladamir Lenin and Marxists there were pushing Bolshevism. Russia was weakened by WWI and eventually collapsed within from civil war and eventually was dominated by Lenin's Communist forces. This would alienate and galvanize the world, leading to the nationalist socialist response to the internationalist socialist Communists in the form of Fascism and thus Nazism.

Adolf Hitler was a soldier serving his country in WWI. He left the trenches and after WWI we became involved in the radical leftist party called the National Socialist German Workers' Party or Nazi Party as we know it. Combining nationalism and socialism was the origin of Fascism in Europe. People forget how Fascism was a very popular cultural, progressive, economic, philisophical, and political ideology and it was very attractive to socialists opposed to Russian rule. That's the main difference between Fascism and Communism. One stresses global unity while the other national sovereignty.

WWI lead to the rise of Bolshevism in Russia and the creation of the Soviet Empire, which lead to the rise of the Axis Powers really and WWII. And thus the Second World War ended. With the end of WWII, the Axis Powers were replaced by new regimes. Japan and Italy and many nations became freed and occupied by Western Union forces, while parts of Germany and Eastern Europe saw Nazism replaced by Stalinism and remained enslaved until the USSR died off. Another result of WWII was the creation, testing, and use of nuclear weapons.

With the end of the Fascist threat, the former allies of WWII fought another global war, the Cold War, which raged longer than any global conflict in history and spanned half a century. It divided the world between free and unfree, resulted in the deaths of over 100,000 American troops, 100 million people in the Communist dicatorships, and nuclear threats. The dominoes fell until the end of the war which ended with the prevalence of America and the Western and Free world forcing the collapse of the Communist Soviets and their allies. Those once strangled by Communism and even Fascism were freed eventually, the political prisoners released, and the captive nations restored. Russia however, to this day, would continue its aggressiveness, China, Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba would remain Communist, and several nations around the globe continue electing socialist despots and radical tyrants like in Venezuela.

And there's the issue of terrorism. While the Arab world had always best aggressive towards the West, the outcome of WWI saw the Ottoman Empire crushed and carved up into smaller states by the Entente Powers, as was much of Africa. Like in Africa, the Middle East was carved up into colonies with sometimes little or no identity to hold it together such as seen in Rwanda and Iraq where the establishment of sovereign nations resulted in chaos from time to time. The Middle East specifically gave rise to modern day Islamist terrorism. While the Ottamans were questionable rulers, the abolition of their rule lead to the many MidEast crisis we've seen from wars, to terrorism, to even assisting Hitler exterminate Jews and alliances with the Soviets. The fight with terrorists today can be traced to the failure to contain the revolution in Iran in which the Shah was replaced with the Ayatollah and radicalism gained control of a country. Iran became Islamist during the Cold War and would support terrorism against Americans and many others to this day, from invading US soil during the hostage crisis, to arming terrorist groups with weaponry and funding terror today.

So WWI had part in creating the Soviet Union, raising up Fascism and WWII, raising up Communism and the Cold War, and raising up Islamist terrorism and Pan-Arabism in the modern era. On the other hand, it gave us one of our greatest presidents- Ronald Reagan. It lead to America become not just one of but THE world superpower and the greatest exporter of freedom in this world, and turned America into the greatest force of good against evil ever seen.

Should we have fought WWI? Absolutely. We were totally justified in entering. Germany was killing Americans, targeting our people and ships, conspiring to start a war with us using Mexico as a proxy and even getting Japan on the side of the Central Powers through Mexico, and planning to give the SouthWestern portion of America gained from the Mexican-American War over to Mexico again. We were absolutely justified and our response was just.

Sorry for reviving the thread but I need help for an Essay:

If you can change anything in the Treaty of Versailles (and other treaties) that can help prevent World War 2, What would they be?

Criteria:
Is it a DEFINITE change?
Will it help Prevent World War 2?
How will you convince the Big 4 to agree? (US, France, Great Britain, and Italy)

Aw crud, I didn't see this. I haven't read that treaty line by line, but I'd say from what I know if it-

It prevented Germany from maintaining a proper military, if one at all. Germany eventually went militarist.
It took away lands from Germany and created smaller countries. Germany invaded them later on and even expanded into other countries it never owned.
It humiliated Germany and Germans by making them take blame for the entire war which wasn't really right. Germany would become very nationalistic and xenophobic (if that's the word).
I think it gave away German colonies but I'm not sure.
It also forced Germany into paying for the war, especially France, and basically bankrupted the nation and destroyed their currency and pushed them into a huge depression where their currency was so worthless that a bag of money couldn't buy a loaf of bread.

But here's something to think about- WWII started because of the rise of Fascism. Perhaps even if Fascists rose to power there wouldn't have been a world war IF the Soviet Union was never formed. To do that you'd have to convince Americans and the allied forces with troops occupying Russia during its civil war to keep troops there and take an active role stopping the Bolshevists from winning and taking control of the country, if not openly supporting the Whites against the Reds. If you stopped Lenin and didn't withdraw the American Expeditionary Force in Siberia and allied forces in Russia after WWI, we could have stopped Russia from going Communist and invading countries like Georgia and annexing them to form the Soviet Union, Fascism as a force against Communism wouldn't have had as much influence, Japan might not have gone so expansionism if they didn't have a regime in Russia like Stalin's to fear (I'm guessing), Islamists wouldn't be galvanised by the secular nature of Communism and Muslim aggression wouldn't have been a problem as much in that area of the world, and of course the USSR wouldn't have helped Communism spread into Eastern Europe, Africa, the Middle East, China, Korea, Indochina (Vietnam, Laos, Camboida), and Latin America (especially Cuba and Nicaragua). 100 million people wouldn't have been killed by Communists from the Russian Civil War to the end of the Cold War. Heck, people are still dying in the remaining Communist states. No Holocaust, no Japanese death marches, no Killing Fields of Cambodia, no Russia gulags.

At the end of the day though I'm sorry to say that you couldn't convince them; people already tried and they did it anyway, and unless you could convince them that you're from the future and that you knew France would get invaded and conquered and replaced with a Nazi puppet state and lose its colonies in Southeast Asia, the British would lose nearly their entire empire and be replaced as a world empire as well as endure economic horrors and daily bombings of their cities, and Italy would become a Fascist dictatorship and assist in creating one of the biggest humanitarian distastes in human history and help the making of the Holocaust and eventually get turned into a Nazi puppet state after being partially liberated... well unless you could prove it would happen it would still happen. The US wouldn't need to be convinced; we opposed the Treaty. If I recall, liberal Democrat Woodrow Wilson opposed it because of the effects on other countries and was fearful of countries being torn apart and nations redrawn, and conservative Republicans opposed involvement from Constitutional standing and because they opposed internationalist hysteria. But our country opposing it wasn't enough to deter the others from going through with it.

Gold warehouse
February 18th, 2009, 01:59 AM
If you can change anything in the Treaty of Versailles (and other treaties) that can help prevent World War 2, What would they be?
Reduced reperation payments

I think most people probably voted for the Nazis because of the economic crisis, not many people wanted another war but a lot of people did have money problems that Hitler promised to fix.
The USA, UK and Italy probably would agree to this, but France would be harder to convince because their country sustained the most damage from the war; France occupied the Ruhr in 1923 so if Germany shared part of the Ruhr with France there would be no need to invade.

Expand on that and go into detail and it should probably be sufficent for a short essay. Agent Cobalts answer would get maximum marks... My teacher would probably complain to me if I wrote that much ><

Went
February 18th, 2009, 02:08 AM
I'd have made the conditions for the Treaty more fair and less opressive towards Germany, since it was their anger and economical bankrupcy what helped the Nazis to rise to the power. But most of the blame for the WWII was to be put on the Democratic countries and the UN of the age for letting the Fascists maneuvre and conquer half of Europe. If they had reacter sooner... Germany and Italy would have been stopped before, Spain wouldn't have had to stand a 40-years long Fascist Dictatorship nobody seemed to care about in the Freedom Exporting Democratic World (and we were in the "democractic" part of Europe!), and a lot of lives could have been saved.

But eh, what can be done now, really? Just hope that doesn't happen again.