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View Full Version : What is the best dragon or steel pokemon?


Zacch2
April 20th, 2009, 05:24 PM
Well i would say dragonite, metagross, or salamance, because they are on my team, but what do you guys think?

Cirrus
April 20th, 2009, 05:36 PM
'Mence and 'gross. Excellent Pokemon... pity salamence is so hard to obtain.

Translator
April 20th, 2009, 06:56 PM
I would say it's Salamence and Metagross. Aggron is also a choice but I prefer Metagross over him.

Ninja Caterpie
April 20th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Metagross for sure.

Dragon... I'd say Flygon or Salamence.

Milke
April 21st, 2009, 07:01 AM
In third generation, Metagross and Salamence. Always.

Master Terrador
April 21st, 2009, 07:11 AM
Metagross and Salamence...I always have them on my team...

Veristical Blaze
April 21st, 2009, 07:42 AM
Aggron/Metagross and Flygon/Salamence

DARKSHADE
April 21st, 2009, 07:52 AM
salamence! i never really liked metagross...

Captain Fabio
April 21st, 2009, 09:48 AM
I think 'Gross is one of the better Pokemon.
'Mance is the best dragon in this generation in my opinion.

BHwolfgang
April 21st, 2009, 01:00 PM
It has to be either Salamance/Metagross or Flygon/Aggron. <3

Azonic
April 21st, 2009, 03:35 PM
Metagross for sure.

Dragon... I'd say Flygon or Salamence.

Aggron/Metagross and Flygon/Salamence

It has to be either Salamance/Metagross or Flygon/Aggron. <3
Flygon and Aggron aren't contenders for strongest steel or dragon.

f l y g o nIt's in the OU Tier in the Advanced Generation, but is it the best? Well, let me evaluate. I say that Salamence outclasses Flygon in this tier. Both are very good dragon Pokemon, but Salamence is overall better.Flygon's Stats:
HP: 80
Attack: 100
Defense: 80
Special Attack: 80
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 100
Salamence's Stats:
HP: 95
Attack: 135
Defense: 80
Special Attack: 110
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 100
None of Flygon's stats are larger than Salamence's, whereas Salamence outclasses Flygon in HP, Attack, and Special Attack. This gives Salamence the upper hand in bulkiness (even though it's marginal) and both of its offenses. Salamence is extremely versatile because it is able to Attack with both offenses with great power; Flygon is quite predictable with not many options at its grasp, with most variants being of Choice Band.

Salamence hits extremely hard with a 135 (most of the time boosted) Attack stat. If it gets in 2 Dragon Dances or so, it's gonna take a lot to stop it. Flygon can't pull this off as well with a smaller attack stat and being a bit more fragile and vulnerable.Flygon's Weaknesses: x4 Ice, x2 Dragon
Flygon's Resistances: x0 Electric, x0 Ground, x0.5 Fire, x0.5 Rock, x0.5 Poison

Salamence's Weaknesses: x4 Ice, x2 Dragon, x2 Rock
Salamence's Resistances: x0 Ground, x0.25 Grass, x0.5 Water, x0.5 Fire, x0.5 Bug, x0.5 Fighting
Flygon may have the upper hand when it comes to weaknesses, but Salamence surely outclasses Flygon when it comes to resistances. Salamence may only have one more resistance, but it's resisted move types are much more common. Come on, it's not every day your opponent uses a Poison move on you! Salamence also gets a little more bulk with 95 HP, so that should help it live a little longer.

a g g r o n
I'll stand by my opinion that Metagross is far superior to Aggron in terms of power and strength. There is a reason why Metagross is in OU and Aggron is in UU. I'll get us started by taking a peek at their statistics first.Aggron's Stats:
HP: 70
Attack: 110
Defense: 180
Special Attack: 60
Special Defense: 60
Speed: 50

Metagross's Stats:
HP: 80
Attack: 135
Defense: 130
Special Attack: 95
Special Defense: 90
Speed: 70
Whoa there, there's quite a big difference between the two. You have to admit, Aggron's special defenses just suck. It has no speed to save it from the nightmare either. Low HP, terrible special defense, and a lot of common specially-typed weaknesses aren't helping it at all. We'll get into weaknesses later. You'll notice an impressive 180 defense stat, however. But is it enough? I'm questioning it's usefulness right now. A majority of Aggron's lack of potential has to do with it's typing. Aggron, with no boosted offenses, can't hit very hard on it's own. It is easy to wall, set-up on, and stall out, giving the opponent a big opportunity to win.

Metagross, on the other hand, has an impressive 135 attack stat, with especially durable defenses (both physically and specially) too. What a great combination! A balance in offense and defense make up to a great tank Pokemon. It has an interesting movepool with Explosion, Pursuit, etc. Okay, onto weaknesses / resistances:Aggron's Weaknesses: x4 Fighting, x4 Ground, x2 Water
Aggron's Resistances: x0 Poison, x0.25 Normal, x0.25 Flying, x0.5 Ice, x0.5 Psychic, x0.5 Ghost, x0.5 Dark, x0.5 Dragon, x0.5 Rock

Metagross's Weaknesses: x2 Fire, x2 Ground
Metagross's Resistances: x0 Poison, x0.25 Psychic, x0.5 Normal, x0.5 Grass, x0.5 Ice, x0.5 Flying, x0.5 Rock, x0.5 Dragon, x0.5 Steel
Metagross and Aggron both have a number of resistances. However, it's the weaknessess that hinders Aggron's ability greatly. Weaknesses to some of the most common types in the metagame aren't helping Aggron at all (especially when they are x4, with one x2 weakness on the special side). Even with 180 Defense, Aggron dies easily to a harsh blow from fighting or ground type moves. Take my word for it, I've battled Aggron before and not even it's 180 Defense can take x4 hits. Needs better HP too.

Metagross has a much better typing over all. Two common weaknesses, only two, doesn't hinder it that much. At least it's not a damaging x4 weakness like Aggron. Metagross's high attack stat allows it to deal damage, while it's defense stats and the number of resistances allow it to take hits very well. It's a strong and durable tank for the OU environment.

So overall, Salamence and Metagross win it for the strongest Dragon / Steel type in the Advanced Generation. Rayquaza wins the prize for toughest dragon if we include ubers.

shanecdavis
April 21st, 2009, 08:50 PM
There is no question that Rayquaza is the best Dragon-type. Not even close.

Best Steel-type goes to Skarmory. Not as offensive as Metagross, but has a much better typing and is much stronger defensively.

sambo626
April 23rd, 2009, 02:47 AM
Personally, I think Metagross is definitely the best steel type and Dragonite whips salamance any day.

Azonic
April 23rd, 2009, 05:33 PM
Dragonite whips salamance any day.Nope. In a head on match with Dragonite vs. Salamence, it comes down to speed. I'm pretty sure they both OHKO eachother with supereffective moves, so speed is the final factor it comes down to. Salamence has an advantage with 100 speed over Dragonite's 80, so Salamence will go first and OHKO Dragonite before it has a chance to attack.

Pokeyomom
April 23rd, 2009, 06:37 PM
I personally love steelix. I am not to knowledgable about stats, but I think its defense is just killer.

Tyranitar042
April 23rd, 2009, 08:40 PM
Metagross/ and well since shanecdavis pulls another good point as always salamence is no match against the uber and most powerful dragon rayquaza.

dumbpikAchu
April 24th, 2009, 05:32 AM
where's the love for the original? You're hugging something so unreliable..
MOST PEOPLE HAVE THEIR DRAGONITES WITH ICEBEAM!! including me..
Dragonite ;D shut the **** up about Rayquee, it's a legendary!

Tyranitar042
April 24th, 2009, 08:01 AM
oh come on even a dragonite with ice beam cant kill a rayquaza just because of speed rayquaza is unbeatable of course he is a legendary but zacch2 never mentioned what was limited which shanecdavis realised and of course rayquaza. No offense to anyone but a dragonite would lose in a battle between rayquaza.

The Red Chain
April 24th, 2009, 09:15 AM
oh come on even a dragonite with ice beam cant kill a rayquaza just because of speed rayquaza is unbeatable of course he is a legendary but zacch2 never mentioned what was limited which shanecdavis realised and of course rayquaza. No offense to anyone but a dragonite would lose in a battle between rayquaza.

Salamence would mop the floor with Rayquaza.. Outspeeding can be a nasty thing.
But yes, of course Dragonite's Ice Beam [1st usage] wouldn't kill Rayquaza, only reason is because Dragonite is a physical Pokemon, and Ice Beam is a special move.

Dragonite is bulkier than Rayquaza, so chances are it could survive an attack thrown at it on the first turn, then wipe out Rayquaza with a single Dragon Claw.
I don't have a damage calculator, so I can't tell you precisely if it would go just like that.. but it would definitely be similar.

Edit ; Calculated it. Turns out if Rayquaza ends up using a move like Dragon Claw and it doesn't hit a critical Dragonite will survive it.
Then if you put a move such as Outrage on Dragonite and use it, Rayquaza will faint, even without a critical.
But I do admit if Rayquaza does Outrage as well before Dragonite, there is no doubt in my mind Dragonite would faint.
So this argument between whichever dragon is better is pretty much even sided.

Zacch2
April 24th, 2009, 09:17 AM
I think Dragonite would beat Raquaza, seeing that Raquaza is fast, but cant hit as hard as Dragonite.

Tyranitar042
April 24th, 2009, 10:02 AM
you are right it is all about which is faster but i was leaning a little more torwards rayquaza using ice beam as well because of the type (dragon/flying) double-damage. I never liked dragon type moves but loved how they were so diverse with movesets.

Dragonite's Sp.Atk-328 max with beneficial nature Spd-284 with benficial nature

Rayquaza's Sp.Atk-359 max with a hindering nature Spd-289 with a neutral nature

As it is seen here a dragonite cannot beat a rayquaza the only way possible is IF rayquaza's ice beam misses highly unlikely. It's ok I'm not saying that I dont like dragonite in fact i hate rayquaza but he can be dragonite hands down and i accept that.

The Red Chain
April 24th, 2009, 10:11 AM
you are right it is all about which is faster but i was leaning a little more torwards rayquaza using ice beam as well because of the type (dragon/flying) double-damage. I never liked dragon type moves but loved how they were so diverse with movesets.

Dragonite's Sp.Atk-328 max with beneficial nature Spd-284 with benficial nature

Rayquaza's Sp.Atk-359 max with a hindering nature Spd-289 with a neutral nature

As it is seen here a dragonite cannot beat a rayquaza the only way possible is IF rayquaza's ice beam misses highly unlikely. It's ok I'm not saying that I dont like dragonite in fact i hate rayquaza but he can be dragonite hands down and i accept that.

Wrong again.
Used the damage calculator with the stats you stated above. Dragonite would still survive with 6 hp, as long as there is no critical, and Dragonite's health is maxed.. [The health being maxed on Dragonite is extremely likely].
So then if Dragonite used Outrage Rayquaza would faint, even with maxed health.. -shrug-
Oh, and Outrage is physical. So Sp. Def would do it no good in a face off.

Tyranitar042
April 24th, 2009, 10:14 AM
ok i was justed adding some stats in there by the way where did you get the damage calculator id like to be able to use one so i wont be wrong again but what about an icebeam because nobody would take a rayquaza with a hindered sp.atk which is higher when neutral.

Try these stats because i dont have a damage calc.

Dragonite/spd-decrease sp.def-increase
hp/atk/def/sp.atk/sp.def/spd
386/367/289/299/328/233

Rayquaza/sp.def-decrease sp.atk-increase
414/399/279/438/251/289

this is the stats all neutral except 2 for each i just want to know what an ice beam from a rayquaza with maxed sp.atk would do against a dragonite with maxed sp.def

The Red Chain
April 24th, 2009, 10:27 AM
Dragonite ; Neutral Sp. Def 236 and 386 HP
Rayquaza ; Beneficial Sp. Atk 438.

Rayquaza would definitely one hit KO Dragonite.
But why get a Beneficial nature in Sp. Atk for Ray in the first place? The best thing about Rayquaza is Dragon Dance..
So if you were to think of the majority of Rayquazas [Physical], up against the majority of Dragonites [Also Physical], Dragonite would win.
Hindering nature is actually lower than Neutral nature..

Jas_66
April 24th, 2009, 10:36 AM
this is so obvious to me lolz....
Salamance and Metagross...
as they are both on my team...
they rule the can take down 2-3 pokemon....
once my metagross took out 5 pokemon by itself...
if u give it the right EV's to both metagross and salamance they can KO most pokemon hands down...
no doubt about it.

Tyranitar042
April 24th, 2009, 10:39 AM
i was just wanting to see what an ice beam would do and for the rayquaza. I was giving the dragonite maximum sp.def and rayquaza a maximum sp.atk and i wanted to see the result. The only dragon i use with physical attacks is salamence, because i dont play competetive and a dragonite to me is all special attacks. thats just me.

zenix
April 25th, 2009, 03:09 PM
Dragon: if legendary counts then its Rayquaza, if not then Flygon.
Steel: Aggron, is my all time favorite, helps out a lot.

shanecdavis
April 26th, 2009, 12:49 AM
Both Salamence and Dragonite can defeat Rayquaza in a head-to-head battle, but that DOES NOT make them better. That is like comparing two sports teams, with Team A only losing one game the entire season (to Team B) and then winning the championship,and then arguing that since Team B beat Team A, despite having a worse record, they are better. Doesn't work that way.

Rayquaza has a higher base Atk than either Dragonite or Salamence (150 vs. 134/135) and a MUCH higher base SAtk (150 vs. 100/110). It also has a higher base Spd than Dragonite (95 vs. 80) and just barely less than Salamence (95 vs. 100). Those are the main aspects of a Dragon-type. Hit hard and be fast, which Rayquaza is clearly the best at.

Sweet Candace
April 26th, 2009, 04:37 AM
Dragon- A tie between Kingdra and Rayquaza.
Steel- Metagross. Metagross is strong and durable.

RockmanEXE
April 26th, 2009, 04:50 AM
I'd have to go with zenix on this one.

Flygon is worth getting if you train your Trapinch.
And Rayquaza is one of the best Dragon Legendaries ever.

As for Steel types ...
Either Registeel or Aggron.

Omega Saikon
April 26th, 2009, 08:03 AM
In my opinion, steel goes to - Metagross. Dragon goes to - Dragonite.

warudo.kun!
April 26th, 2009, 08:41 AM
I don't know about what dragon suits me but I'd say Steelix is a good steel type.

True Reign
April 26th, 2009, 08:46 AM
Metagross and Salamence beat all.

Seriously.

dumbpikAchu
April 27th, 2009, 06:42 AM
*Eats Salamence so noone can vote for him and so that he would be torched by the Charizard that's in my tummy's flames*
Seriously, He probably didn't count Legends, and Registeel, I don't think he's that good :/
Flygon, well, it's Ground makes it weak to Water, Grass, and x4 Ice, so... GRASS ARE COMMON!

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~
May 2nd, 2009, 10:26 AM
Salamence and Metagross all day


:t354:TG

derozio
June 21st, 2009, 07:06 AM
I love Dragonite but I think that salamence is better as it has more speed. Metagross is hands down the best steel type pokemon for me!

Cameo
June 21st, 2009, 08:14 AM
Well, I really like Salamence more than Dragonite but I think that either Flygon or Altaria is the best dragon-type pokémon. : DD If we don´t include legendary dragon-type pokémon of course. XD For steel-type pokémon, I think that Metagross or Aggron is the best one.

Satoshi Ookami
June 21st, 2009, 08:23 AM
Dialga because it's Dragon and Steel type :D :D but it doesn't belong to III gen
Dragon - Latias but she's legend :/
Steel - Metagross
IV gen
Dragon - Giratina Origin
Steel - Lucario!!!

Ice Grimm
June 21st, 2009, 08:34 AM
I would choose Metagross for steel and Dragonite/Salamence/Altaria for dragon, I can't make up my mind, but if I had to pick I would choose Dragonite (I am very classic guy)

The Darkest Gale
June 21st, 2009, 08:37 AM
ARON! is my favourite steel type along with metagross but dragonite and rayquaza are the best dragon

Arcanine
June 21st, 2009, 10:08 AM
As much as we all would like to talk about how awesome Dragonite is (because Dragonite is the best Dragon type). This thread shouldn't have been revived. It's over a month old, and as everyone can see in the rules... you can't bump a thread after it's passed it's month mark. Want to keep talking about it? Start a new thread, as for this one...

*Closed*