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Inkfingers
April 28th, 2009, 03:48 PM
Why is it Dragonair can fly in the TV series of pokemon, but not in the game? For those who say, because it has no wings, it does on its head. Yes they are small, but they support Dragonair the same way a bee's wings can support its heavy body.

Gymnotide
April 28th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Okay, you need to stop comparing things to a bee's wings. That has no relevancy. Penguin wings are smaller than their bodies and yet they cannot fly.

A bee's structure is small, light, and compact. The wings themselves flap at almost 200 beats per second. Not to mention, they aren't that much smaller than the bee. Some bee wings are over half the bee's length.

Dragonair is simply unable to carry itself because those wings are minuscule and its body is long and slender. If it were to fly, it would need to flap over a billion times faster than the bee, which would require many gigantic muscles in Dragonair's head. Factoring those muscles into the equation, the wings would need to flap millions of times faster than that. Even so, it wouldn't be able to keep its entire body afloat. The rest of it would just hang down.

And what is that? Four feathers per wing? That isn't enough to keep anything flying.

Dragonite shouldn't be able to fly either. The wings simply do not have enough surface area.

Azonic
April 28th, 2009, 05:07 PM
Watch any tape of Dragonair flying. It's not moving it's "wings" at all.

It probably flies by some ~mythicial~ dragon force thingy. How does Rayquaza fly? Same thing.

AJ™
April 28th, 2009, 05:10 PM
I was just about to mention the "mystic force" aspect.

Many, MANY Pokemon have the supernatural ability to float midair without any explanation. It's just how the Pokemon world is. It's not supposed to make sense.

Mew floats with no wings, Mewtwo can too.
The Magnemite family also does it. Throw a magnet up in real life. Will it fly? No, so Magnemites wouldn't be able to either.

But that's beyond the question asked by the first poster.

I believe Dragonair is seen flying in the Anime for cinematic reasons. To make it seem more majestic and regal, while the game doesn't need that necessary aspect.

Gymnotide
April 28th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Also, for anyone any good at aerodynamics, I prepared some numbers for you.
The length of Dragonair's body is a bit shorter than it should be, but that shouldn't matter.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/LoLwtFbbQcom/Dragonair.png

coolcatkim22
April 28th, 2009, 05:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6nlCGd5VaA&feature=related

watch at 6:52

Gymnotide
April 28th, 2009, 05:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6nlCGd5VaA&feature=related

watch at 6:52

Those wings have too large spaces between them and their surface area is not large enough.
They aren't nearly large enough to take Dragonair into the sky.

coolcatkim22
April 28th, 2009, 05:49 PM
Whatever, I just wanted to show that Dragonair flaps it's wings when it flys.

But if you want to bring logic into a video game made for children you can do that all you want.

Peace out.

Åzurε
April 28th, 2009, 05:58 PM
:P He's got a point. I have a feeling there's lots of things you can only explain if you actually know the wizard who did it. This is just one of them.

sirboulevard
April 28th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Im a HUGGGE Dragonair fan, its ability to fly is a side effect of another one of its ability: the ability to change the weather. It uses modified Wind Currents to slip it into a jet stream that allows it to fly (this is explained in Pokemon Special) and in the games it is mentioned in the PokeDex it can fly, so the ability is canon in the games as well, just not used.

Gymnotide
April 28th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Im a HUGGGE Dragonair fan, its ability to fly is a side effect of another one of its ability: the ability to change the weather. It uses modified Wind Currents to slip it into a jet stream that allows it to fly (this is explained in Pokemon Special) and in the games it is mentioned in the PokeDex it can fly, so the ability is canon in the games as well, just not used.

Oh yeah. That makes sense.
Much more sense than using those silly "wings."

Hadn't come to mind. +rep.

Åzurε
April 28th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Hahaha! I just got completely owned, unintentionally, it seems!

Well then, screw the wizard, that'll work! Way to use brain power, boulevard! This made me laugh so hard I'm +repping you.

daigonite
April 28th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Simply because the anime likes to get their facts wrong.

On the topic of how it flies: typically, serpentine dragons do not use any wings at all; instead, they slither through the air like sand.

Rubber Ducky
April 28th, 2009, 08:12 PM
I'm more interested in how Dragonair can evolve into Dragonite. I mean, what the hell. Dragonair should be the final stage, with one between or before Dratini.

coolcatkim22
April 28th, 2009, 08:15 PM
I just remembered something. There was a legend I read about a dragon called a 'koul' that reminded me of the the Dragonair family.
It went like this:

"A koul is a snakelike, gigantic proto-dragon that must pass three tests of courage — the coming to aid of others, the act of swimming, and a literal 'leap' of faith — in order to become a dragon. Upon coming to the aid of others, the koul grows legs; after having swum in water, the koul is able to breathe fire; upon making the leap, the koul immediately sprouts wings."

Although the breathing fire thing doesn't really fit.

I also heard one about a proto-dragon called a Imoogi that has to live for a thousand years and catch a pearl in it's mouth to become a dragon. If it doesn't catch the pearl it must wait under 1000 years.

Sorry, I'm gettting side tracked.

Åzurε
April 28th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Well, that would explain the inspiration behind evolving dragonair into dragonite.

Regigigas
April 28th, 2009, 08:47 PM
Dragonair can't fly because of it's weight. You can see that his fat.

sirboulevard
April 29th, 2009, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the + Rep guys
Dragonair can't fly because of it's weight. You can see that his fat.

Doesnt matter. Wind currents are strong enough to rip off rock, houses, etc. Plus, some trainers like Lance and Clair have been seen RIDING Dragonair, they can do such because the currents have to be strong enough to defy gravity, at which point its more a matter of mass than weight.

The Scientist
April 29th, 2009, 08:15 AM
Also, for anyone any good at aerodynamics, I prepared some numbers for you.
The length of Dragonair's body is a bit shorter than it should be, but that shouldn't matter.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/LoLwtFbbQcom/Dragonair.png

Whoa.

I think I've created a new aspect of Pokemon: Sprite Mathematics. The only concern I have is that 61px shouldn't equal 4m, as that 4m refers to the Dragonair's entire length, and the height of the sprite only utilizes around half of Dragonair's full length.

Psyburn
April 29th, 2009, 08:29 AM
How does Rayquaza fly? Same thing.

I thought it was because legendaries were required to fly to prove their bad assness in a sense.

which is kinda averted due to the beasts, regis, weather duo, and Heatran >_>

sirboulevard
April 30th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Since it seems there are still people who are puzzled, im uploaded an attachment that shows how the system for non-winged pokemon to fly.

Note: the actual drawing of dragonair belongs to DarkAngel226 at DeviantArt, I made the convection diagram, I dont claim the Dragonair as my own work.

Inkfingers
April 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Alright thanks so much guys. Gymno, I only used the bee thing twice,and apparently, according to science, bees should not have the ability to fly. It's been proven many times. I've seen it in tons of movies and TV shows. But don't argue w/ it, I'm just stating that.
sirboulevard. That answer you gave has got to be the greatest scientific pokemon answer I have ever heard. Have you heard about my real pokemon guru thread? If not check it out please. I would really like to have you join the team.

Nnoitra Jiruga
April 30th, 2009, 07:52 PM
Well...most dragons can fly without the help of wings, sooo...
O_O

coolcatkim22
May 1st, 2009, 12:08 PM
Alright thanks so much guys. Gymno, I only used the bee thing twice,and apparently, according to science, bees should not have the ability to fly. It's been proven many times. I've seen it in tons of movies and TV shows. But don't argue w/ it, I'm just stating that.
Wikipedia:
"In 2005 Michael Dickinson and his Caltech colleagues studied honey bee flight with the assistance of high-speed cinematography and a giant robotic mock-up of a bee wing. Their analysis revealed sufficient lift was generated by "the unconventional combination of short, choppy wing strokes, a rapid rotation of the wing as it flops over and reverses direction, and a very fast wing-beat frequency". Wing beat frequency normally increases as size decreases, but as the bee's wing beat covers such a small arc, it flaps approximately 230 times per second, faster than a fruitfly (200 times per second) which is 80 times smaller."

Any ways, Dragonair's wings remind me of the wings that are on Hermes helmet, staff and sandles.
http://www.peacechief.org/ASTRO/HERMES.jpg

Artemis
May 1st, 2009, 05:59 PM
It is funny how you compare Dragonair with a Bee and its wings, but no the game designers basically have a point in what they do. In the anime, they most likely portray Dragonair to fly because for one it is a Dragon Type and they probably wanted to follow the mythical belief of dragons having the ability to fly.

As for the games, one thing you have to remember is that everything you see in the anime doesn't always happen in the game. In other words, the game designers might have preferred Dragonair wait until its final stage to learn the HM Fly, other than that I see no other reason to it. xD

Gymnotide
May 2nd, 2009, 08:53 AM
Gymno, I only used the bee thing twice,and apparently, according to science, bees should not have the ability to fly. It's been proven many times. I've seen it in tons of movies and TV shows. But don't argue w/ it, I'm just stating that.

It was also scientifically "proven" that maggots erupt from rotten flesh spontaneously, that atoms are solid spheres of mass, and that organisms acquire traits from their environment and pass them down to their offspring.

Scientific proofs have been wrong in the past, and obviously, since bees can fly, the proof that they cannot is obviously wrong.

Even in that, not everything that is provable should be believed, for example:

4059 = 400302

If I factor out infinity, then I get:
infinity (4059 / infinity) = infinity (400302 / infinity)

Since anything over infinity is 0, then
infinity (0) = infinity (0)
0 = 0

And therefore 4059 = 400302.

Of course, once you explore the world of infinity, then there is an apparent problem with the proof. The same applies for the proof that bees cannot fly. There is some un-explored aspect of the bees that allow them to do so.

edit
Found it. After doing some more research, I found that the fact that bees cannot aerodynamically keep themselves alift is using an aerodynamics equation given a PLANE the size of a bee and the same proportioned wings.

The "science has proved that bees can't fly" urban myth originated in a 1934 book by entomologist Antoine Magnan, who discussed a mathematical equation by Andre Sainte-Lague, an engineer. The equation proved that the maximum lift for an aircraft's wings could not be achieved at equivalent speeds of a bee. I.e., an airplane the size of a bee, moving as slowly as a bee, could not fly. Although this did not mean a bee can't fly (which after all does not have stationary wings like the posited teency aircraft), nevertheless the idea that Magnan's book said bees oughtn't be able to fly began to spread.

It spread at first as a joke in European universities, at Sainte-Lague's & Magnan's expense. But later it became a "fact" among the gullible or the uneducated not smart enough to get the joke. Later still it became a "fun" experiment to develop complex mathematical theories both to explain how insects fly, or why they can't -- scientific intellectual sophism.


The article called your gullible and uneducated. What are you going do about it? lol

- - - - -

Also @ sirboulevard's theory: I just realized that your diagram does not explain how Dragonair can control those aspects. Of course, there's yet another unexplained part of Pokemon :3

sirboulevard
May 2nd, 2009, 09:32 AM
Also @ sirboulevard's theory: I just realized that your diagram does not explain how Dragonair can control those aspects. Of course, there's yet another unexplained part of Pokemon :3
I know my theory doesnt explain the weather changing ability, I've been searching for research on that for a while. (Like I said, obsessive Dragonair fan) What I can say is that my theory seems to be backed up by 2 major Dragonair appearances.

In Pokemon Special, Volume 4, Chapter 62, The Breath of Dragonair, Part 3 Lance's stolen Dragonair starts flying, which startles Yellow and he explains that "Dragonair swims the skies as easily as the seas" and that "even the sky will obey it's command" before having the weather conditions altered into a major storm. If we look at Lance's words, they really are simple way of describing the conditions I pointed out earlier, but it leaves little evidence about its weather changing powers (other than it looks identical to the Anime's depiction of such). Almost identical circumstances occur in the Blackthorn City arc, where Dragonair was debuted to the American audiences. I know the PokeDex had info on it's flying and weather abilities in the banned Safari Zone episode, but alas, we dont know it.

I think its safe to say while my theory is plausible for the flying, the mechanism for the weather changes is something we cant analyze, unless someone has a real life Dragonair we can experiment on. The only thing we can do is really speculate. That said, I have seen one common factor in its weather changing abilities, the Crystal on it's neck seems to glow (PokeSpe Vol. 4, Ch.62 and Blackthorn City arc, Pokemon Anime) so I believe it may be safe to assume that is where the mechanism is located.

Gymnotide
May 3rd, 2009, 06:42 PM
Just wondering, but are there any instances of Dratini flying?

sirboulevard
May 3rd, 2009, 07:05 PM
Nope. Dratini is a non-flyer. Deep sea swimmer though.

Inkfingers
May 3rd, 2009, 07:35 PM
Okay gymno, Like I said, I only heard this statement on TV and in MOVIES. I really didn't look into it so much because I really don't care all that much for bees. The only reason I belived it is because I heard it so many times so lay off man, so I make a few mistakes, who cares. Making mistakes is what makes us human.

sirboulevard. So do u wanna help me w/ the pokemon guru thing or what?

sirboulevard
May 3rd, 2009, 07:36 PM
sirboulevard. So do u wanna help me w/ the pokemon guru thing or what? No thanks. I prefer doing my own thing.

Gymnotide
May 3rd, 2009, 07:49 PM
Okay gymno, Like I said, I only heard this statement on TV and in MOVIES. I really didn't look into it so much because I really don't care all that much for bees. The only reason I belived it is because I heard it so many times so lay off man, so I make a few mistakes, who cares. Making mistakes is what makes us human.

Now, now. You are just overreacting.

You make it seem like I'm just out there to get you, but in reality, I could care less.
I correct people. It's what I do. On occasion, I require correction myself. I gratefully take it and leave. Please stop reacting with such hostility.

I'm just suggesting that you put a bit more research into your posts so I wouldn't have to correct you all the time. The television and the movies aren't really the best places to base your scientific claims, either.

Blaziken_Boy
May 3rd, 2009, 09:09 PM
The Dragonair flies by imagining that it's being chased by a Logic Bomb. In its haste to get away from the Logic, it forgets about gravity and anything else and simply flies.

Tacogeddon
May 3rd, 2009, 09:31 PM
The Dragonair can bend the surrounding Luminiferous Aether as it pleases, allowing it to freely hover about and possibly travel through space.

SCIENCE!

Inkfingers
May 5th, 2009, 01:31 PM
Alright Gymno, I'm tired of this back & forth thing. I don't wanna argue, and I'm just making educated guesses. There's no way to really know, you know. I get it that you correct people, but you do a bit too much it seems, and you anncounce it in what seems to be a mean way. And you were out to get me for a little while( Inky, gullible and uneducated, ring a bell) but it's okay I don't care any more. So *sighs* what do ya say? Truce?

Sirboulevard, I understand, and I respect that. Good luck out there. btw just curious. Why cerluean gym and what would be your pokemon lineup?