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hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
June 8th, 2009, 11:59 AM
After seeing posts like this:
This is true most great hackers
EXAMPLE:
Baro, The The The The The, Disturbed and many others

I'd like to ask what's a good hacker?

Who's a good hacker?

Surf
June 9th, 2009, 12:52 AM
I think that people who find things for themselves are true and great hackers.
Like yourself, coolboyman, SCV and many others.

Ninja Caterpie
June 9th, 2009, 12:56 AM
A good hacker? There are lots out there. Thrace, Surf, Watermelon...me. Anyone that makes a good hack is a good hacker.

But a great hacker? That's completely different. Someone who does the main load of work and does a lot of research (or uses it) to help the greater community. You, SCV, Coolboyman, Pichu2001, LU-HO, thethethethe...Those are great hackers.

NatureKeeper
June 9th, 2009, 02:22 AM
What about Jagold? :) I mean he is like the best one. Zel was only remaking.

Surf
June 9th, 2009, 02:25 AM
Some of the stuff that zel has scripted is amazing.
In Shiny Gold, there are some of the most complicated scripts I have seen.
He put a massive effort into it.

Tropical Sunlight
June 9th, 2009, 05:56 AM
A good hacker?

It's a human who liks spending their time on the computer. Has many great ideas and does not use or copy any other mapping styles. They are also a great scripter and can use a hex editor.

Magic
June 9th, 2009, 06:42 AM
A good hacker?

It's a human who liks spending their time on the computer. Has many great ideas and does not use or copy any other mapping styles. He is also a great scripter and can use a hex editor.

I'd like to second that, though I also think that the even better ones help others learn hacking and are polite :) Rather than the 'I'm better than you' vibe some people give off.

Imposter Oak
June 9th, 2009, 07:41 AM
He is also a great scripter and can use a hex editor.

Only "he"?

I'd like to second that, though I also think that the even better ones help others learn hacking and are polite :) Rather than the 'I'm better than you' vibe some people give off.

:laugh: Some seem to do both!

Ray Maverick
June 9th, 2009, 08:47 AM
Hmm....i think amazing hacker will be the one who can concerntrate on hacking,the one who has talent on hacking and the one who likes pasta! ;D

Vrai
June 9th, 2009, 10:00 AM
xD, I think I wrote something on this a while ago. Lemme see if I can find it, and then I'll edit this post, mmk?

*looks for his document*

Edit: Ooh, found it!

What exactly is hacking, anyways?

We all have our own perspective of it; some people think of it as a fun sport, while others treat it as difficult, laborous work. Likewise, people have differing ideas on the different sections of hacking. Some people find that spriting is the most fun out of all of it, while other people think that mapping is their way of expressing their feelings.

Well, to be honest, I believe that there are five big "parts" of hacking, that every good hack requires:


Spriting (basically, anything graphical, aside from mapping)
Storyline (the whole plot. If it doesn't have one, the hack isn't good)
Teamwork (everyone that helps you)
Mapping (obviously)
Scripting (what makes the game interesting)


Now, for each of these five wonderous pieces of hacking, there's a certain trait that corresponds with it; it's the trait that makes the biggest difference in each aspect of hacking. And so, here are our traits..

Spriting -- Determination
Storyline -- Originality
Teamwork -- Responsibility
Mapping -- Creativity
Scripting -- Knowledge

I call this the DORCK method, for obvious reasons. You see, if a hacker has the trait, I believe that they will generally excel at that specific aspect. With that thinking in mind, if a hacker has all five of the DORCK traits, they excel at hacking in general.. or at least, that's my own opinion.

Whether you see hacking as a sport, or as a profession, you should be determined, original, responsible, creative, and knowledgeable.

So tell me.. are you a dork, or are you a DORCK?

It was an article I wrote for the RHN a while ago under Panda's hands, although I don't think it ever appeared in an issue. Basically, I think a good hacker should have the DORCK traits, as well as being professional (to a degree) and helpful.

Helping people begin to hack is the greatest skill any hacker could possess.

Satoshi Ookami
June 9th, 2009, 10:35 AM
A good hacker should be creative, helpful, capable and know how to choose good team

sab
June 9th, 2009, 03:25 PM
A great hacker is one who can find things out for themselves. tools make it far more efficient but a truly Great hacker understands how to hack every thing even if they don't have any tools but a hex editor. In other words a great hacker is one that understands what makes the game tick(I'm not even near this.) . Remember game design is different from a great hacker.
P.S. You don't have to know how to do everything you just need to know the basics.

.Seth
June 9th, 2009, 03:31 PM
Someone who puts forth their best effort no matter how poorly their skills are. Effort, is what matters, not if they know this is that.

mattattack
June 9th, 2009, 05:03 PM
well yes their great hackers but sometimes great hackers can be a little rude

Thrace
June 9th, 2009, 06:28 PM
Someone who puts forth their best effort no matter how poorly their skills are. Effort, is what matters, not if they know this is that.
No it isn't. There are lots of people who have been doing this for a long time and still have no talent for it.

I don't think theres a blanket statement to describe what makes a good hacker.

Vrai
June 9th, 2009, 06:57 PM
well yes their great hackers but sometimes great hackers can be a little rude

..and so can noobs who don't care. Honestly, politeness doesn't really seem to be a factor in hacking. It's nice, of course, but it's not really necessary.

Tropical Sunlight
June 9th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Also, something that would be a big plus:
ASM
ASM hacking
The most powerful, and arguably the most difficult, hacking technique is editing the game's actual code, a process called ASM hacking ("ASM" means "assembly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language)", referring to the type of programming language used for early console games)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROM_hacking#cite_note-dictionary-0). There is no set pattern for ASM hacking, as the code varies widely from game to game, but most skilled ASM hackers either use an emulator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_emulator) equipped with a built-in debugger or tracer, or run the ROM through a disassembler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disassembler), then analyze the code and modify it using a hex editor or assembler according to their needs. While quite challenging compared to the relatively-simple methods listed above, anything is possible with ASM hacking (of course, within the limits of the hardware/software of the gaming platform), ranging from altering enemy AI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_artificial_intelligence) to changing how graphics are generated. (Of course, the possibilities are still limited by the hacker's ability to comprehend and modify the existing code.)

Poke_a_Dialga!
June 9th, 2009, 10:42 PM
Good hacker is someone like Twilite Darkrai, Watermelon~ etc
Great hacker is someone like Destinedajagold, Zel 2.0 and those who'd completed the hacks.
For me i'm poor :'(

Larsie13
June 10th, 2009, 04:52 AM
I think a good hacker is someone who:


Has a wide spectrum of hacking skills.



Is not afraid to learn more difficult aspects of hacking, like ASM.



Is not afraid to work on a hack by themselves just to develop their skills.



Tries again when something doesn't work right away. (And again, and again..., until they get the result they want, instead of giving up when it doesn't work, like most people do.) <-- This is the most important one, IMO.

Pokepal17
June 10th, 2009, 07:03 AM
A good hacker, someone to does what they can to the best of their ability, isn't too dependent on tools (and good with a hex editor) and will never give up.

And who are they? Well, it could be anyone, if they put some effort into it.

Imposter Oak
June 10th, 2009, 09:19 AM
ASM knowledge may may help with reverse engineering but if someone overdoes it on warping the code side of things then their overall hack could be arguably worse off as a consequence, not as they intended. It's like someone wanting their food well-done but then going too far and cremating it.

I can't speak for everyone who hacks ROMs or play them, of course, but I prefer the majority of the gameplay in a RPG hack to stick with how it was in the game it's a hack of. I like good stories and challenging battles above all else. Any other content when done 'right' is merely a bonus.

Surf
June 11th, 2009, 12:41 AM
well yes their great hackers but sometimes great hackers can be a little rude

Most of the time it's because of stupid n00bs who decide to rub them the wrong way.
Rom Hackers are humans too! We all have emotions and tipping points, the only reason people go ape is because they have people asking them the same question everyday.
But then there are just downright rude people too.

SCV
June 11th, 2009, 10:15 PM
After seeing posts like this:


I'd like to ask what's a good hacker?

Who's a good hacker?
The answer to this question depends alot on what each person defines "hacker" to be. I can tell you full well that there are very few hackers at this rom hacking community. (By my definition).

From the responses I have seen so far, people seem to associate "good hackers" with being a hacker rather than just an editor.

To me people who are editors are those who simply use programs that someone else has made and could not do the task without said programs.

Hackers (whom I refer to as researchers) are those who do not give up when there are no tools, rather they collect information and build knowledge to come up with a solution themselves.

Good hackers are those who make huge leaps in many areas. For example, loadingNOW. I'll use the 4th gen as an example.

There were many hackers that took to the challenge and started researching DP. There were even some programs made for DP based on that research. However, most of those programs are very inflexible. The only program that truly stand as that made by a good hacker is thenewpoketext. Of course, loadingNOW has also made advances in other areas besider rom hacking, which is really what marks him as a good hacker. Of course that's an understatement to most since their standard for what a hacker is, is lower than mine.

Note: I am relatively new, so I don't know much about who developed and researched 3rd gen hacking. There might have been other good hackers bad then but they are no longer producing what would be required for me to say that they are good hackers.

Cartmic
June 12th, 2009, 02:17 AM
There are two parts to ROM hacking:

1. The whole new game idea(map, tiles, sprites, text, events).

2. The game editing(coding in assembly language, editing 'existing'/'adding new' code in a hex editor).

Now the first one has to be genuinly creative, a visionary even. Creativity isn't something you work at attaining, it's a gift.

Now those who are gifted in Creativity may not be gifted in the mind set you really need to hack a ROM. Serious game editing really requires you to have a good memory and a gift in programming.

Now there is a hacker, I know who is a greatly creative person, but isn't really into the programming side, but this hasn't halted them in anyway, as like anyone, even if your coding isn't too hot, you can still do it, it just takes a fair bit of practice.

loadingNOW
June 16th, 2009, 11:12 AM
I'd define hacker the mostly the same way as scv does. i that does not to devalue all the graphic design, working with script editors mapping etc pp - actually using the tools and information the hackers figured out to make something wothwile is also a complicated task perhaps even more so. however it's more 'modding' or even game design than hacking.

so as a brief history (n my definition - so no game designers, editors) of the good poke hackers i know and what they did

there were a few before that most notably the guy who found dv/ivs but i can't remember the name but he would really deserves a spot

Meowth346 - the most promintent figure in gsc and early advance gen he used to run a site called pokefor was the first to figure out a lot of things and the first site with a cool php based database pokedex which all major sites have these days however he never shared his raw data after gsc days. he stepped down before the remakes were released in the us there was a lot of drama involved back then.

Tauwasser, F-Zero et al. - These guys did some amazig stuff in gsc early advance gen like figuring out the gsc and rs mapdata the compression in gsc and the animations. also gsc scripting. also woked on actual hacks but only a beta was ever released

Kawa, interdepth et al - also worked on maps, scripts etc (elitemap!), also made one of the best hack demos ever released. Working on an alternate pokemon engine these days

PokemonHacker (kenobi) - figured out the ar protection of pokedata in rs i worked with him on a lot of advance and gamecube projects. basicly only a fraction of my advance projects would have been possible without him

Mastermind_X - well i guess he is new enough for you to know his projects. he started porting AR codes to the german versions but quickly surpassed that

Eevee, Zhen Lin et al - worked on encryption of the sprites and found a polynomial to approximate and decrypt befor i finally figured out the real algorithm for pokedspic. also worked on a lot more datastrctures relevant for dp pokedexes

SCV - you also know him ;) I first noticed him when he broke the cheat detection i developed by figuring out the mystery of the random numbers for himself

these japanese guys (can't remember their nicknames either) - figuring out the pokeencryption and save structures as well as dipstar (early ar) codes in dp. I still wonder how they did that so fast

i was already named by scv so i am lucky i don't have to nominate myself ;). I started with gs but never did anything worthwhile back then (it was mostly a learnig experience) the first useful stuff from me was for the gba games

miksy91
June 16th, 2009, 09:58 PM
I think that good hackers are people who can do things themselves without using editors which other people have programmed
Good hackers are people who make hacks with a lot of new stuff like scripts

Then there are people who are good "game editors" who can do mapping and stuff like that. I wouldn't call it hacking though

.little monster
June 16th, 2009, 10:10 PM
Good hackers~

- Rely on themselves, not on others.
- Can make great maps.
- Have a great imagination and sense of design.
- Able to deal with people because people will be constantly bugging them.
- Uses as little tools as needed.
- Doesn't release screenshots of every little moment. That ruins the game.

Sarcastic Prince
June 16th, 2009, 10:15 PM
Then there are people who are good "game editors" who can do mapping and stuff like that. I wouldn't call it hacking though

Disagree. Look at all the Great Hackers.
Eg. DJG, Zel, Coolboyman, Koder, Eing, Areku...

Did any of them actaully program their own tools? (Except for DJG for making his Guiding
Tool) The answer is: No. They didn't. A real good Hacker is completely not what you've said, it is people who do most of their stuff and only needed a few people to help
them like that.

And Ctep, would you really think that using as few tools as needed is required
for what you call a good hacker? I don't think so.
It's the opposite of what you've said. Actually, using as much tools to change the Hack is
what makes the Game much better.

miksy91
June 17th, 2009, 12:51 PM
Disagree. Look at all the Great Hackers.
Eg. DJG, Zel, Coolboyman, Koder, Eing, Areku...

Did any of them actaully program their own tools? (Except for DJG for making his Guiding
Tool) The answer is: No. They didn't. A real good Hacker is completely not what you've said, it is people who do most of their stuff and only needed a few people to help
them like that.

And Ctep, would you really think that using as few tools as needed is required
for what you call a good hacker? I don't think so.
It's the opposite of what you've said. Actually, using as much tools to change the Hack is
what makes the Game much better.
Map editing and stuff like that is not hacking, it's just editing.
Scripting with editors is also editing but it's nearer hacking than other game editing. I think that mapping is a thing of it's own and it can't be counted to word "hacking". But it's still good to learn how to map since if mapping sucks then the hack will be bad too.

However there are only a few people here who really know what hacking is and how to do it.

ThePastaThrower
June 17th, 2009, 01:35 PM
...and the one who likes pasta! ;D

I agree 100%.

A great hacker is someone who can focus on one thing, and not let go until it's finished. Someone who has a lot of inspiration, doesn't copy, helps others and has the ability to get other people interested.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
June 17th, 2009, 02:08 PM
For a bit of time ago I'd shout WTF (W stands for why) does a hacker have to be polite and help others to be good.. I don't think intirely like this anymore though, I see if a hacker can share he's knowlegde with 3 people he's 3 times that good a hacker...
HmmNo
I have to think this through...

Then Xiros would be 1000 times better then anyone else for running Wah?

I agree on he's maybe 100 times better... But 1000?


A real good Hacker is completely not what you've said, it is people who do most of their stuff and only needed a few people to help
them like that.And Ctep, would you really think that using as few tools as needed is required
for what you call a good hacker?.
How does that make sentce... So

A good hacker: Not talking to the people who's helping him, But still need their help?

Sarcastic Prince
June 19th, 2009, 12:46 AM
How does that make sentce... So

A good hacker: Not talking to the people who's helping him, But still need their help?

Umm... what do you mean by that?

I don't really get it.

Map editing and stuff like that is not hacking, it's just editing.
Scripting with editors is also editing but it's nearer hacking than other game editing. I think that mapping is a thing of it's own and it can't be counted to word "hacking". But it's still good to learn how to map since if mapping sucks then the hack will be bad too.

However there are only a few people here who really know what hacking is and how to do it.

But the whole stuff in the Pokemon Game is changed!
Look at the Mexican Hackers and the Hackers here! You see how they change the OW's, Maps, Scripts and Tiles? And yet, you called that not Hacking?
Weird.

Alec_
June 19th, 2009, 12:51 AM
I think a "Good Hacker" knows Everything. Especially a good hacker must be an expert in scripting i guess :3. Mapping and Graphics. Also a good hacker must have a great Hack.
That's all what i can say~.

~Fairytales.

Cartmic
June 19th, 2009, 01:38 AM
But the whole stuff in the Pokemon Game is changed!
Look at the Mexican Hackers and the Hackers here! You see how they change the OW's, Maps, Scripts and Tiles? And yet, you called that not Hacking?
Weird.

Yes! thats is game editing. The programs these people are using, is doing the hacking for them, all they are doing is entering data into fields and clicking a few buttons, which then program will "hack" the ROM by re-pointing this entered data elsewhere in the ROM. Hacking is looking at the compiled binary and making serious adjustments manually in a hex editor or disassembling the game and editing the assembly language then reassembling.

Now you could argue that when writing event scripts you are hacking away at code(as in writing new code), but that has a separate meaning to the hacking we are talking about.

DarkPrince304
June 19th, 2009, 02:12 AM
A great hacker is one who puts a lot of efforts into his work rather than showing of
And talented
And last of all who can accept Criticism! :)

Sarcastic Prince
June 19th, 2009, 07:20 AM
Yes! thats is game editing. The programs these people are using, is doing the hacking for them, all they are doing is entering data into fields and clicking a few buttons, which then program will "hack" the ROM by re-pointing this entered data elsewhere in the ROM. Hacking is looking at the compiled binary and making serious adjustments manually in a hex editor or disassembling the game and editing the assembly language then reassembling.

Now you could argue that when writing event scripts you are hacking away at code(as in writing new code), but that has a separate meaning to the hacking we are talking about.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough...
but I'll say it is both Hacking AND Game Editing that everyone's doing.
And that's just my opinion. You don't have to really listen to it.

QuickWhiteSilver
June 19th, 2009, 12:09 PM
a good hacker

-try to get it right before asking for help
-have great skills
-do not show off
-mature