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View Full Version : A lesson worth sharing.


Banjora Marxvile
August 14th, 2009, 01:35 AM
There are 2 things nowadays that I have found that should be taught. Mods, please close this if it is classed as spam, or just plain old annoying, I just wish to teach people what Hacking is all about, and to fix some errors.

1. Tile Inserting seems to be a great thing, however, what annoys me if people getting the terms wrong. Advance Map can back me up on this, as what you make maps out of are blocks of tiles. So technically, there aren't Tile Errors, but Block Errors, as the wrong Block is used, but the occasional tile errors when there is something in the block that looks dodgy. Most so called "Tile Errors" are Block Errors. Tiles are the things you make the Blocks out of, in Block Editor. It annoys me that people make tuts, but don't give the correct terminology. This isn't the lesson, just something worth pointing out.

EDIT: Hmm, I guess actually, this is down to opinions, and I didn't explain what I truly meant. OK, the errors aren't explained well. What I meant is that in Tile Inserting tuts that use Advance Map, it would be best to use the terminology Advance Map gives you, as then it is easier to explain how to do it, and people become less confused.

2. Something I have noticed, mainly in Light Platinums thread. Hacking is something peope do for fun. You should be pleased that a hack like this is created at all. It is a service they are doing, completely selflessly, and when they cannot deliver to what people think is a release date when it isn't, then you should think that they aren't at fault. They are doing this not for themselves, they are doing it without gaining anything good in return. Most hacks do this, and yet you get annoyed and angry when people don't release anything. Just remember, they are being selfless by releasing it at all, and anyone who is impatient and asks for a release, or gets angry at the lack of releases are the selfish ones. Remember: Hackers have a life, do not rush them, as they don't have to hack. They choose to, to make others happy, yet some people don't truly seem to understand why people release hacks.

EDIT: I admit I am wrong about hacks being selfless, they are mainly made selfishly, but the main point is that you shouldn't complain if a release date was missed, as something in the owners life may have come up, or a terrible bug or something. At least they are releasing the hack for everyone to play at some point.


3. I also hate people who say certain ROMs are unstable. They are all stable, otherwise you cannot play the game. The TOOLS are the things that affect the ROM, so they don't work that well on certain ROMs.

Yes, it is a rant for me... But it is worthwhile. I'm just annoyed at the ignorance... The first point is kinda not explained well, so... Feel free to ignore that.

Alistair
August 14th, 2009, 04:33 AM
Your first point is a bit debateable, but I fully agree with you on your second point. It's not like these hackers are big-time game developers where they need to meet milestones within a certain time frame or date. It is a casual thing that people should not expect perfection or professional level management. As you said, hacks are for fun. They're not for business.

I do say that your first point is debateable, mainly because of the nature of ROMs, and the definition of the term. A tile is technically any piece of graphic that assembles a bigger picture by using uniformally-sized squares. That would constitute assembled blocks to fall under the same definition. And you have to remember, I was a hacker at one point, but now I mainly sprite graphics, so I have seen both sides of the argument.

Banjora Marxvile
August 14th, 2009, 04:39 AM
I do say that your first point is debateable, mainly because of the nature of ROMs, and the definition of the term. A tile is technically any piece of graphic that assembles a bigger picture by using uniformally-sized squares. That would constitute assembled blocks to fall under the same definition. And you have to remember, I was a hacker at one point, but now I mainly sprite graphics, so I have seen both sides of the argument.
I know the first is debatable, but Advance Map agrees with me on that one, so if tuts use Advance Map, then they should use what Advance Map says, which is that you insert the tiles, put them into Blocks, and use said Blocks in mapping. I'm not saying that it isn't debatable, but tuts that use Advance Map should take note of that.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
August 14th, 2009, 09:06 AM
point1: Nearly everybody use the wrong words, u do too... And by the way no one cares about tiles anyway...
point2: u say the hackers get nothing and do it as a service to other people?
Nah, they still do it for them self and a for a good felling
point3: That you could't play them otherwise is kind of a bad reason:7

Kindly Regards from mr monster... :7

Banjora Marxvile
August 14th, 2009, 09:11 AM
point1: Nearly everybody use the wrong words, u do too... And by the way no one cares about tiles anyway...
point2: u say the hackers get nothing and do it as a service to other people?
Nah, they still do it for them self and a for a good felling
point3: That you could't play them otherwise is kind of a bad reason:7

Kindly Regards from mr monster... :7

I knew it was a matter of time before I lured you here, well I can counter that too.

1. I didn't use the wrong words, proof in Advance Map. And I care, and so should those who are making tutorials about Tile Inserting, as it makes Tile Inserting a hell of a lot easier to explain and understand.
2. But what do they gain from it? True they will be liked by the people who like the hack, but what will that really gain you? A good feeling isn't selfish, as it is the feeling you gave somebody a good hack, and they enjoy it. That isn't too selfish.
3. I'm just saying that is what an unstable ROM is, you cannot play it because it is messed up. Kinda poor wording, I know, and kinda bad example, but just saying that the tools are the things that are unstable for some ROMs like Leafgreen and Sapphire, not the ROMs themselves.

colcolstyles
August 14th, 2009, 11:14 AM
The reason why people use "tile error" as opposed to "block error" is the same reason why the misconception that some hacks are "unstable" is around.

People, for the most part, follow what other people do.

Somebody came up with the term "tile error" a long time ago and it stuck, even if it wasn't correct. I've tried to use "block error" in my ratings but it just doesn't sound natural. Everybody else uses "tile error" so that's what I will use as well, because of some weird superstition that I'll be outcasted if I don't.
This applies to the "unstable" myth as well. People hack Ruby and Fire Red because, well, that's what other people are hacking. Leaf Green and Sapphire are quite similar to their respective counterparts but I guess somebody decided long ago that they wanted to hack Fire Red so that's what everybody else did too.

Disturbed
August 14th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Just because Lu-Ho calls it a Block, doesn't mean it's the correct terminology. As Alistair said above me, "A tile is technically any piece of graphic that assembles a bigger picture by using uniformally-sized squares."

Now, on the next thing... not all hacks are created selflessly. I'll be honest here, Distant wasn't. I made that not for other people, but to actually get myself known in this hacking community. Did it work? I'd like to think so. My opinions did change later on in the creation, a little ways after the Hack of the Year voting. I realized how many people wanted what I was working on, and that changed the bigger picture I was going for. I didn't care about the popularity anymore, I wanted to create something enjoyable that all my new found friends can enjoy, and then some.

Everything else, I agree fully with you. Well thought out thread, and well worded. It's not offensive like countless other rants, and it gives us some nice facts to think about. Well done.

Banjora Marxvile
August 14th, 2009, 12:23 PM
Just because Lu-Ho calls it a Block, doesn't mean it's the correct terminology. As Alistair said above me, "A tile is technically any piece of graphic that assembles a bigger picture by using uniformally-sized squares."

Now, on the next thing... not all hacks are created selflessly. I'll be honest here, Distant wasn't. I made that not for other people, but to actually get myself known in this hacking community. Did it work? I'd like to think so. My opinions did change later on in the creation, a little ways after the Hack of the Year voting. I realized how many people wanted what I was working on, and that changed the bigger picture I was going for. I didn't care about the popularity anymore, I wanted to create something enjoyable that all my new found friends can enjoy, and then some.

Everything else, I agree fully with you. Well thought out thread, and well worded. It's not offensive like countless other rants, and it gives us some nice facts to think about. Well done.

Thanks for the info. The no. 1 thing on my list is actually for tutorials teaching Tile Inserting in Advance Map. If they used this terminology like in Advance Map, it will make it far easier to understand.

Everything else I agree with you about. I wasn't thinking too much about the 2nd point, it is mainly aimed at the people who request release dates, without realising the work involved, and if the release date is missed, they immeiately start Spamming, or complaining, not knowing why it was delayed, because of possible interruptions like life, or something going wrong.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
August 14th, 2009, 03:05 PM
I knew it was a matter of time before I lured you here, well I can counter that too.

1. I didn't use the wrong words, proof in Advance Map. And I care, and so should those who are making tutorials about Tile Inserting, as it makes Tile Inserting a hell of a lot easier to explain and understand.
2. But what do they gain from it? True they will be liked by the people who like the hack, but what will that really gain you? A good feeling isn't selfish, as it is the feeling you gave somebody a good hack, and they enjoy it. That isn't too selfish.
3. I'm just saying that is what an unstable ROM is, you cannot play it because it is messed up. Kinda poor wording, I know, and kinda bad example, but just saying that the tools are the things that are unstable for some ROMs like Leafgreen and Sapphire, not the ROMs themselves.Why da .... should anyone care what luho calls it? because he made amaP?
I don't say you just use wrong words about tile editing, but just inall hacking overall (i know u)...

hacks are made for the user to pass the time and have fun

just stop using da words unstable, k?!

sasquatchd00d
August 14th, 2009, 06:40 PM
Addressing your first point, I believe that the correct terminology is used when pointing out block errors and tile errors. To me, a block error is a block that is incorrectly edited in the block editor feature of AdvanceMap. Such as the top section of a tree over a corner mountain tile so that an area of black is showing. A tile error is the incorrect use of tiles. For instance, someone not using the downwards sloping back roof of tileset 61 in Fire Red would be a tile error. I agree that there really is a fine line between the two though and that it could really go either way. But I prefer my way of thinking of it, because it makes sense to me. Anyone is free to call it what they want to call it.

Yoshimi
August 14th, 2009, 09:30 PM
I disagree with number 2. From what I've heard, people hack and make hacks for fun. Sure, it is nice to give the public the end result of your hard work, but I honestly doubt so much people would make hacks "completely selflessly." Surely, there must be at least some self gain to the creator, or else hacking wouldn't be such a big business as it is now.Your third point is just regurgitating what people like IIMarckus and thethethethe stated, but is a good thing to mention nonetheless.

Ninja Caterpie
August 14th, 2009, 11:56 PM
Nobody hacks for everyone else. People aren't nice like that in the world, there's no one selfless enough here. We hack because we like to, no matter what the by-product is.

Banjora Marxvile
August 15th, 2009, 12:50 AM
Addressing your first point, I believe that the correct terminology is used when pointing out block errors and tile errors. To me, a block error is a block that is incorrectly edited in the block editor feature of AdvanceMap. Such as the top section of a tree over a corner mountain tile so that an area of black is showing. A tile error is the incorrect use of tiles. For instance, someone not using the downwards sloping back roof of tileset 61 in Fire Red would be a tile error. I agree that there really is a fine line between the two though and that it could really go either way. But I prefer my way of thinking of it, because it makes sense to me. Anyone is free to call it what they want to call it.

No. 1 in my point isn't mainly about the errors, to be honest, when I was writing this, I had just taught someone Tile Inserting, and was kinda annoyed.

I disagree with number 2. From what I've heard, people hack and make hacks for fun. Sure, it is nice to give the public the end result of your hard work, but I honestly doubt so much people would make hacks "completely selflessly." Surely, there must be at least some self gain to the creator, or else hacking wouldn't be such a big business as it is now.Your third point is just regurgitating what people like IIMarckus and thethethethe stated, but is a good thing to mention nonetheless.

I know number 2 is wrong, and I accept that, but the main point of it, and I will edit this later, is that if release dates are given, and they aren't met, it isn't a reason to start Spamming threads, or complain. I am focusing this on 1 thread in particular. I admit, hacks are made for selfish reasons, I really shoud edit that one out. No. 3 just annoys me, I just thought it is worth mentioning so people aren't wrong.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
August 15th, 2009, 05:54 AM
No. 1 in my point isn't mainly about the errors, to be honest, when I was writing this, I had just taught someone Tile Inserting, and was kinda annoyed.



I know number 2 is wrong, and I accept that, but the main point of it, and I will edit this later, is that if release dates are given, and they aren't met, it isn't a reason to start Spamming threads, or complain. I am focusing this on 1 thread in particular. I admit, hacks are made for selfish reasons, I really shoud edit that one out. No. 3 just annoys me, I just thought it is worth mentioning so people aren't wrong.
So why would you need the second point then?
It against the rules... Just press report...

And plz stop using the word unstable...

Banjora Marxvile
August 15th, 2009, 06:01 AM
So why would you need the second point then?
It against the rules... Just press report...

And plz stop using the word unstable...

I can use what words I like, if I am honest. You are quite amusing.

The 2nd point, I added because the actual point was for those who ask for release dates, and when a rough estimation of one is posted, and not delivered, people complain. THAT is the point of the 2nd part.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
August 15th, 2009, 06:05 AM
I can use what words I like, if I am honest. You are quite amusing.

The 2nd point, I added because the actual point was for those who ask for release dates, and when a rough estimation of one is posted, and not delivered, people complain. THAT is the point of the 2nd part.
Yah, I'm cryed amusing...
You can't use all the words u want though, than the monsterators will come and say "nonononono" and you can't hack for month...

Banjora Marxvile
August 15th, 2009, 06:06 AM
Yah, I'm cryed amusing...
You can't use all the words u want though, than the monsterators will come and say "nonononono" and you can't hack for month...

Touche, but this is now getting irrelevant. As long as my words fit the rules, and actually do kind of mean what I want them to mean, it is fine.

sasquatchd00d
August 15th, 2009, 09:56 AM
No. 1 in my point isn't mainly about the errors, to be honest, when I was writing this, I had just taught someone Tile Inserting, and was kinda annoyed.

My point wasn't about the errors either. I was just saying that I believe that the correct terminology is being used already. Although to be fair, newer users of AdvanceMap hardly ever use the block editor feature. So of course problems will be encountered while teaching someone to insert tiles because they might not yet know about block editing or the difference between blocks and tiles.

I also agree that people should not complain about release dates. Although your point is somewhat made in vain. The people that are causing this problem will most likely never look at this thread at all. And I know that it's against the rules to be asking for release dates, but you must remember that these people are human. And they are impatient. There really isn't a way to stop this because there will always be newer members joining and repeating the same thing.

Yoshimi
August 15th, 2009, 04:09 PM
I know number 2 is wrong, and I accept that, but the main point of it, and I will edit this later, is that if release dates are given, and they aren't met, it isn't a reason to start Spamming threads, or complain. I am focusing this on 1 thread in particular. I admit, hacks are made for selfish reasons, I really should edit that one out. No. 3 just annoys me, I just thought it is worth mentioning so people aren't wrong.

I agree with that statement. But if one has a word to keep, the masses tend to get angry when that word is not kept. It is understandable, even though they overreact to it.

Banjora Marxvile
August 16th, 2009, 12:36 AM
I agree with that statement. But if one has a word to keep, the masses tend to get angry when that word is not kept. It is understandable, even though they overreact to it.

But not if it is a rough estimation, like they say "at least xx days". Then they don't have a word to keep, as such. People still get angry about this.

Conan Edogawa
August 20th, 2009, 02:45 PM
I agree that people shouldn't complain when a release date is missed. You got that point correct (with the edit included). Actually, I agree with most of what you said. But to be honest, most of the people that need to see this will take the time to read it. It's a shame but true.

NarutoActor
August 20th, 2009, 03:17 PM
I disagrea I rather have an estimation be 2 mounths and corect than one mounth and roung
I look foward to the release date take someting out of my life to find the thread just to see no release date and disapoint ment lots of disapoint ment But I never play hacks unless there complete this happeneds to me with The develoment of super smash flash 2 by mcloading I cant wait for the next update :D

Banjora Marxvile
August 21st, 2009, 01:43 AM
I disagrea I rather have an estimation be 2 mounths and corect than one mounth and roung
I look foward to the release date take someting out of my life to find the thread just to see no release date and disapoint ment lots of disapoint ment But I never play hacks unless there complete this happeneds to me with The develoment of super smash flash 2 by mcloading I cant wait for the next update :D

What? I am saying there should be NO release dates given, or if they are to not rely on the date 100%, due to possible occurrences and interventions, due to false hope given, as well as pressure, and countless people asking. Improve your grammar please, as... Well, it annoys me. Why not play betas anyway? They are quite good, you know! You would only play about... 12 hacks if you only played finished ones, whereas there are tons of brilliant hacks in beta version.

Sarcastic Prince
August 27th, 2009, 05:22 AM
Umm... well, I pretty much agree with everything you've said, Marx. You did a great job on telling all this. Well done.

Banjora Marxvile
August 27th, 2009, 09:33 AM
Umm... well, I pretty much agree with everything you've said, Marx. You did a great job on telling all this. Well done.

Whoa... Wasn't expecting that. thank you very much. Normally I can't explain my arguments well to save my life.

Chibi Robo
August 27th, 2009, 10:15 AM
I also hate people who say certain ROMs are unstable. They are all stable, otherwise you cannot play the game. The TOOLS are the things that affect the ROM, so they don't work that well on certain ROMs..
I completely agree with you marx on this subject people are always blaming the "ROM" for being unstable when you can play it perfectly fine (before you started messing around with it) tools are the ones that make rom's unstable but that's the same with hacking in general yeah so Im pretty sick of that "The ROM is unstable" excuse too~
Just wanted to get my opinion out here too~