PDA

View Full Version : Suggestion: Yeah S&M has driven everyone away with its insanity


Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 03:54 PM
Sorry to sound rude but this is absolutely ridiculous. S&M has three perfectly capable and intelligent mods yet what has there been to moderate? All of, what, 4 posts in the last 12 hours? S&M has really experienced both ends of the spectrum, ranging from having a single very lenient moderator to a dynamic group of three moderators, all of whom believe that PC should be as clean cut as possible. Sounds nice. What's the problem?

PC ISN'T SMOGON

Yeah, I'll admit, it'd be cool to have an elite group of raters and battlers, but just to have an elitist group of 3 or 4 people rating each other's teams with no final goal in mind. I'm not saying it's progressed this far yet but it's well on its way.

It's obvious that S&M had flaws before. People failed to follow forum-wide rules, like "no flaming", "no spamming" and "no trolling". But that doesn't mean we have to force it to the opposite pole and make it just boring for members. I'd like to go through each of the rules individually.

→ Follow all PokéCommunity Rules
Yeah no duh.

→ Do NOT rate without proper knowledge
This rule is subjective and pretty pointless. There is a pretty indefinite continuum of battling/rating knowledge and where each person lies shouldn't be decided upon by the moderators. There are obviously such things as terrible rates, but those are spam anyway. If a rate is subpar, it will simply be corrected and the rater can learn from it. No reason to infract for it.

→ When you make suggestions, back them up with REASON
Yeah this is a pretty decent rule actually. This should stay.

→ Be DETAILED with your suggestions
This is completely unecessary. The last rule covers any rates that are not descriptive enough. If you supply an adequate reason and a clear suggestion it's "detailed" enough.

→ You MUST include description and general summary
This rule is pretty solid, but it's never enforced so whatever. It's incredibly pointless because people will just bypass the rule by stating obvious information, and we can't expect people to get too far into the logistics of their team. After all, this isn't Smogon.

→ "Ew, Heatran? You're not being original!"
Actually most of the comments are more about being predictable/unpredictable but yeah most of these are SPAM. But a thread just filled with six standard movesets that have no synergy is just as SPAMmy.

→ This forum is NOT for number rates
This has always been a S&M rule and I believe firmly in it.

→ Teams must consist of SIX Pokémon
On its own this rule is decent but see the rule below for more info.**

→ This is a COMPETITIVE Pokémon forum
This is completely lol. The name of the forum is Pokemon Strategies & Movesets. Now tell me how using 6 Plusle in-game is an effective strategy. Then I'd like the S&M mods to attempt this feat while doing push ups during the elite 4. It's not that easy and extremely inexperienced members need to start somewhere. We've provided nowhere for them to become informed. And we need newer members becoming more experienced to allow the forum to thrive.

As I've already stated, I think it would be amazing to have an exclusively competitive battling population inside the S&M forum... but we don't even have 2% of the number of willing members needed to facilitate that sort of thing. We're not Smogon and we need to quit trying to be exactly like them.

You guys remember aragornbird, right? Well, he thoroughly enjoyed competitive battle but he didn't appear to have any problem helping out inexperienced players so long as they weren't incredibly rude. And he's on Smogon now. If you don't like helping inexperienced players then you should join him there.

And what about those casual players out there? I used to be one myself. Luckily I could post casual RMTs without being yelled at. If I were just getting situated into the competitve scene now, I'd have to go elsewhere.

**And what about Battle Frontier teams? Some of the buildings in the frontier require further coordination than even competitive battle does. And are you suggesting that I could glide through with 6, or in this case, 3 Plusle? I nearly ruined my keyboard after all of the water I just spit on it.

Considering the activity hovering around -273 degrees Celcius (harharhar) this rule is seriously tampering with the growth of the rating/battling population on our site.

→ Teams are REQUIRED to list EVs, Items, Natures, Ability (if it has more than one) and the obvious four moves
Wow. Wow. Well this would be pretty useful if PC were a competitive battle community but since we're not on Smogon we should stop acting like it.

→ Titles
→ Recommended Format
These are pretty essential suggestions. Good job friends.

→ Use the STICKIES to your ADVANTAGE
The stickies are pretty pointless and just reiterate the information that can be immediately found on Smogon. And do I really need to repeat myself again?

→ Use proper grammar and spelling
Good rule.

→ Formatting Issues
Terrible and subjective rule. Leaves room for blatant favoring of members and just adds to the endless list of things that members have to worry about before submitting their thread. And you know what's really ugly? A RMT that has no pictures and is written in the same exact font, color, and format throughout.

→ Learn to take criticism.
This rule is entirely pointless. If a criticism is truly helpful then a member will either accept it automatically or break an already established rule replying to it anyway. Adding unecessary rules really makes the rule thread tl;dr and repetitive.

→ "AH! WHERE IS MY THREAD!?" | Have some PATIENCE
This rule is god awful. There isn't enough activity to warrant thread approval, and there shouldn't be so many god forsaken rules that an open ended discussion forum like S&M should require thread approval. And Battle Logs certainly doesn't need it... do you see threads awaiting approval in the writing forums?

This just frustrates people and allows threads to sink to the second page before they are even approved. Not that the latter is important right now, considering the surge in activity going on.

→ Simplicity is key
Who made this rule? I mean I am pretty sure I know, and this is a rhetorical question, so don't answer, but it's just another pointless restriction. And once again, subjective. Please tell me in one sentence why CSS should be against the S&M rules.

Anyway that's my case, and before you reply just go look at the amazingly high number of posts that have occurred in S&M recently. Remember, there's no need for a second Smogon and there aren't enough active participants to create one.

Gold warehouse
September 2nd, 2009, 04:05 PM
Yes, I entirely agree with everything you said. S&M is clearly too strict.

NarutoActor
September 2nd, 2009, 04:09 PM
quick questions what s&m................

øbliteration
September 2nd, 2009, 04:09 PM
hay we should be a second smogon :>

uhh... i've not posted there ever because I am scared a mod will yell at me for not being "knowledgeable" because I am not a very avid competitive battler.

So yeah maybe it could be a bit more welcoming~

Chibi Robo
September 2nd, 2009, 04:10 PM
Even though I never go into that section (Maybe once or twice) I think your absolutely correct~
We shouldn't try to "imitate" SMOGON (Im assuming its another site) And use everything from their site
And some rules are really silly~
Well I just think its great that another member of pc is trying to help the forum by telling them to stop trying to imitate another site and create some original piece's.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 04:13 PM
quick questions what s&m................
Pokemon Strategies & Movesets, a forum for posting teams and movesets and asking for suggestions on them.

Even though I never go into that section (Maybe once or twice) I think your absolutely correct~
We shouldn't try to "imitate" SMOGON (Im assuming its another site) And use everything from their site
And some rules are really silly~
Well I just think its great that another member of pc is trying to help the forum by telling them to stop trying to imitate another site and create some original piece's.
Seriously, it's just obnoxious to aim to be exactly like another site.

Chibi Robo
September 2nd, 2009, 04:28 PM
Seriously, it's just obnoxious to aim to be exactly like another site.
Exactly what I meant put some originality in this sub-forum If we wanted to get the same stuff you would get from SMOGON then why not join there instead?

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 04:32 PM
Exactly what I meant put some originality in this sub-forum If we wanted to get the same stuff you would get from SMOGON then why not join there instead?
Exactly my point. >=/ I don't understand the moderators' need to have this forum so strict and standard. There is another forum for them if they want to use that instead. At this point I don't understand how the moderators feel needed in that section. And if they all left due to a loosening of the rules, there would be a heap of incoming members that could be eligible for the position. Or members that left quite a while ago that could easily return with the new rule set. Not only that but it makes the raters feel needed. If the raters prefer a more competitive setting, then they wouldn't bother as much with PC as they do Smogon, would they?

sasuneuchiha
September 2nd, 2009, 04:42 PM
You're asking why do away with it? I have a fairly simple answer for that.

People want their movesets rated. Have you overlooked that? True, it could be a bit less strict, but if its not strict, it might not get the modding it needs. Now, I might be overlooking something, and I apologize if I have, just tell me, but I believe that it exists for a reason. It has mods that are very good on the subject (i.e Dark_Azelf) and its not as bad as you make it sound. While I admit, some of the rules do make very little sense, its really not as bad as you make it sound. I see no reason why they should get rid of it, personally.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 04:46 PM
You're asking why do away with it? I have a fairly simple answer for that.

People want their movesets rated. Have you overlooked that? True, it could be a bit less strict, but if its not strict, it might not get the modding it needs. Now, I might be overlooking something, and I apologize if I have, just tell me, but I believe that it exists for a reason. It has mods that are very good on the subject (i.e Dark_Azelf) and its not as bad as you make it sound. While I admit, some of the rules do make very little sense, its really not as bad as you make it sound. I see no reason why they should get rid of it, personally.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Yes, people want their movesets rated... so why are we turning such an open ended subject into something so uniform and impossible? I believe you are forgetting something that I pointed out several times: this isn't Smogon and we don't have even close to enough activity to warrant the current rules. And the rules not making sense is the issue of the entire forum -- if you are only going to agree with me I see no reason to word your post as if you don't.

sasuneuchiha
September 2nd, 2009, 04:53 PM
I'm don't think I'm agreeing with you, though if I am, feel free to point out how.

Yes, I agree that the S&M forum is similar to Smogon. I do, however, believe that they have fair reason to exist. The fact that people do use it often means that the people here at Pokecommunity want it. Therefore, even though there are some who want it deleted, as long as there are people who want it, its up to the admins to decide if its worth getting rid of. Personally, I still stand for the fact that it should exist...

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 04:54 PM
I'm don't think I'm agreeing with you, though if I am, feel free to point out how.

Yes, I agree that the S&M forum is similar to Smogon. I do, however, believe that they have fair reason to exist. The fact that people do use it often means that the people here at Pokecommunity want it. Therefore, even though there are some who want it deleted, as long as there are people who want it, its up to the admins to decide if its worth getting rid of. Personally, I still stand for the fact that it should exist...
Oh nononono. I want the S&M forum. We must've had a misunderstanding. It's just far too strict and needs an axe to half of the rules to thrive at PC.

And the point is for it to be unique, and not like Smogon.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 04:56 PM
Okay you know what?
So what if the S&M section has a lot of rules similar to Smogon?
We have rules similar to Serebii's, and some of the staff members of PC are staff on Serebii as well.
I never hear anyone saying 'OH PC ISN'T SEREBII'.

Seriously, it's not that big a freaking deal.
So S&M wants a little intelligence and seriousness in your RMT's and posts, is that really so much to ask for? =/

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 04:58 PM
Okay you know what?
So what if the S&M section has a lot of rules similar to Smogon?
We have rules similar to Serebii's, and some of the staff members of PC are staff on Serebii as well.
I never hear anyone saying 'OH PC ISN'T SEREBII'.

Seriously, it's not that big a freaking deal.
So S&M wants a little intelligence in your RMT's and posts, is that really so much to ask for? =/
There is nothing intelligent about completely drying out a section of all of its interested members by making the rules too strict. And PC's rules that are similar to Serebii's are commonplace, found on almost any Pokemon forum. And since you're such a fan of the S&M rules, can you take a look at "Read the entire thread" and somehow connect it to this situation?

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 05:00 PM
There is nothing intelligent about completely drying out a section of all of its interested members by making the rules too strict. And PC's rules that are similar to Serebii's are commonplace, found on almost any Pokemon forum. And since you're such a fan of the S&M rules, can you take a look at "Read the entire thread" and somehow connect it to this situation?

That's how S&M is run.
They are serious about their RMTs and their raters, and don't want people wasting their time.
If you don't like it, then well, sucks to be you.

sasuneuchiha
September 2nd, 2009, 05:01 PM
Okay you know what?
So what if the S&M section has a lot of rules similar to Smogon?
We have rules similar to Serebii's, and some of the staff members of PC are staff on Serebii as well.
I never hear anyone saying 'OH PC ISN'T SEREBII'.

Seriously, it's not that big a freaking deal.
So S&M wants a little intelligence and seriousness in your RMT's and posts, is that really so much to ask for? =/

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I mean...though I didn't think of the serebii thing. Good idea. So you don't like the rules. That's FINE! Yeah, they could be less strict, but they ask for intelligence. It makes total sense why they do. A forum like that would be spammed almost immediatly if they didn't have such strict rules. The way it is now, everything works. They do what they do to get answers as easily as they can. Do you get it now?

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:03 PM
That's how S&M is run.
They are serious about their RMTs and their raters.
If you don't like it, then well, sucks to be you.
Wow you can quit being rude and blatantly ignorant of everything that goes on there. I know how S&M is run. And obviously you're just posting here because it doesn't apply to you and you just want to +1 or whatever you do nowadays. Do you even understand the point of a Q&F forum? If everything were spectacular, I wouldn't have made this thread.

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I mean...though I didn't think of the serebii thing. Good idea. So you don't like the rules. That's FINE! Yeah, they could be less strict, but they ask for intelligence. It makes total sense why they do. A forum like that would be spammed almost immediatly if they didn't have such strict rules. The way it is now, everything works. They do what they do to get answers as easily as they can. Do you get it now?
Yeah if it were a valid analogy I could see it working. PC says don't post porn? I guess we must be imitating Runescape now.

But really you're being incredibly vague and if you have to leave holes in your argument just to justify something then there's obviously something wrong.

Aurafire
September 2nd, 2009, 05:03 PM
I don't see how allowing lower-quality RMTs is going to improve the section at all. Sure, we'll have more RMT's and we may attract some more activity, but that's just asking for noobs to invade S&M with spammy posts, and it would be an all-around nightmare for the staff there. That's why they have thread approval in the first place =/

I know what you're saying, but asking to have the rules slackened is not going to be a help to the forum in the eyes of the mods there. I know they wish there was more activity there, but allowing stuff like in-game RMTs probably won't be an option.

Azonic
September 2nd, 2009, 05:05 PM
Imo, PC's S&M rules are fine-ish.

The only thing I kind of dislike is that its not very nice to new members that make threads. I mean, I totally agree with you on the fact that new members need to start somewhere. Don't like, disapprove a thread just because their team sucks (this may not be the case but it's what I suspect. @_@ pls dun hurt me). It's not very welcoming. I think the description for each Pokemon's moveset is kind of unnecessary but that's just me. :(

S&M has scared me away lol.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 05:08 PM
I know what you're saying, but asking to have the rules slackened is not going to be a help to the forum in the eyes of the mods there. I know they wish there was more activity there, but allowing stuff like in-game RMTs probably won't be an option.

In-game RMTs would be a real waste of time.
You can practically use a Magikarp with Flail, Tackle and Bounce and dominate any of the Pokemon games.

The way the RMTs are kept now, in my opinion, is a much better option.
It brings people who are serious about competitive battling together.
Battling actual people instead of data is much more difficult and requires analytical thinking.

it's supposed to invite new members to learn the techniques of the forum without having to simply lurk.

You are really missing the point. x_x;
S&M forces newbies to lurk so they actually read the rules for once.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:10 PM
I don't see how allowing lower-quality RMTs is going to improve the section at all. Sure, we'll have more RMT's and we may attract some more activity, but that's just asking for noobs to invade S&M with spammy posts, and it would be an all-around nightmare for the staff there. That's why they have thread approval in the first place =/

I know what you're saying, but asking to have the rules slackened is not going to be a help to the forum in the eyes of the mods there. I know they wish there was more activity there, but allowing stuff like in-game RMTs probably won't be an option.

Imo, PC's S&M rules are fine-ish.

The only thing I kind of dislike is that its not very nice to new members that make threads. I mean, I totally agree with you on the fact that new members need to start somewhere. Don't like, disapprove a thread just because their team sucks (this may not be the case but it's what I suspect. @_@ pls dun hurt me).

S&M has scared me away lol.

Yeah I don't understand these posts. But you do acknowledge that there is an issue so I will very politely reply to them.

Cherii, if you've been scared away like many other members, how can you possibly disagree with me? A forum isn't supposed to scare people away... it's supposed to invite new members to learn the techniques of the forum without having to simply lurk. Do you know what lurking teaches? "I'm not a good enough member to post"

Overall what I'm seeing in these posts is "Yeah I agree, but I don't want change."

Really, take a good hard look at the forum and try to tell me it's anywhere near perfect.

And as for ingame rates, even when they were allowed they were not horrible. And otherwise new members don't have anywhere to start, as I stated. Thus leaving them to pursue other forums or sites entirely.

In-game RMTs would be a real waste of time.
You can practically use a Magikarp with Flail, Tackle and Bounce and dominate any of the Pokemon games.

The way the RMTs are kept now, in my opinion, is a much better option.
It brings people who are serious about competitive battling together.
Battling actual people instead of data is much more difficult and requires analytical thinking.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about so stop further exaggerating an already false statement and terminate the incessant staff-flattery you are trying to pull off. It doesn't work, honey.

NarutoActor
September 2nd, 2009, 05:13 PM
I agree the rules should be less strick(but what do I know I just fond out this section exseted)
an Serebii forum is way different and I am vevery happy pc is not like Serebii dosent even have a rom hacking section witch is my favorite section on PC
hey if you want a lengthy rating then the person should have the option to put I only want lengthy rating some people properly don't car and some people can right lengthy rate and we don't always need lengthy rates.

Quality over length is what I am saying

Reduction
September 2nd, 2009, 05:14 PM
I hardly post there. The rules are far to strict. I mean, I hate that section. D_A isn't in the wrong though, but inexperienced players [like me] don't know what OU, UU, OO is, nor is there a simple index of Abilities, Items and Natures to help out.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 05:16 PM
You obviously don't know what you're talking about so stop further exaggerating an already false statement and terminate the incessant staff-flattery you are trying to pull off. It doesn't work, honey.

Excuse me?
Stop being so sickeningly arrogant, really.
So suddenly my opinion about the rules being perfectly fine is staff-flattery?
Where do you get off making a statement like that?

I'm saying that S&M doesn't want noobs running around left and right.
Good god.

Look, I know tiers for one are a smogon based thing and S&M organizes with them as well.
But PC is not the only place that battles based off of tiers.
Same goes with EVs, IVs, and Natures. Requirement for those is to help the raters help the asker.
It's all around better organization, and the raters can base an alternative plan for the asker if neccessary based off the IVs, EVs, and Natures.
As well as the tier.

Greene1516
September 2nd, 2009, 05:16 PM
Benadryl mate stellar stuff, I agree 100% with you on this matter.

Aurafire
September 2nd, 2009, 05:19 PM
What I'm saying is, I agree that S&M has been pretty sucky as of late, and sure, they could allow a few more RMT's here or there...You're right in saying that PC shouldn't try to be Smogon. We have nowhere near the memberbase to pull off something like that. Allowing more RMTs may solve the problem activity, but it increases the problem low-quality posts, something that I'm sure the S&M mods are not fond of =(

Thoughts
September 2nd, 2009, 05:21 PM
Personally, your opinion on in-game teams are terrible =/

Competitive players and Mods just don't have time to rate teams for like... say the second gym. We can't rate teams from different points all over the game and honestly, most of them would tell them to level up your team of Starter, <5 fillers>, to level hundred. There is no strategy NEEDED. A Phychical Blissey can, no doubt beat the Elite 4 single handedly if a butterfree can =/.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM
What I'm saying is, I agree that S&M has been pretty sucky as of late, and sure, they could allow a few more RMT's here or there...You're right in saying that PC shouldn't try to be Smogon. We have nowhere near the memberbase to pull off something like that. Allowing more RMTs may solve the problem activity, but it increases the problem low-quality posts, something that I'm sure the S&M mods are not fond of =(
Then that is just laziness. Every mod has to deal with terrible posts, so I don't see the problem with some slightly mediocre posts on the board. It helps new members improve so that they can eventually help out less experienced members and it allows more room for discussion. Seriously I see absolutely no legit problem with taking off thread validation and allowing more relaxed threads that wouldn't be present in any forum.

Personally, your opinion on in-game teams are terrible =/

Competitive players and Mods just don't have time to rate teams for like... say the second gym. We can't rate teams from different points all over the game and honestly, most of them would tell them to level up your team of Starter, <5 fillers>, to level hundred. There is no strategy NEEDED. A Phychical Blissey can, no doubt beat the Elite 4 single handedly if a butterfree can =/.
Yeah okay. Your opinion smells like a landfill. See how incorrect that was, just like your initial statement. And "personally" I'm not interested in your opinions on my opinions. I created this thread to see what people thought about this blatant problem, not so they could rate my persuasive argument skills out of 10.

And speak for yourself. Seriously. Do you know how easy in game rates are? And whether or not you are exaggerating, your evidence is completely false so I have no reason to believe anything you say.

NarutoActor
September 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM
like I said a simple fix would be the option to say I want a lengthy rate or not.

Azonic
September 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM
Hun, I do think it could change. Should be more welcoming to newbies and help them more instead of only helping the experienced get even better. :/

I don't support In-Game RMTs at all. Quite pointless. There should be competitive RMTs only; and again if the team just sucks but follows the other rules then it should still be approved.

Smells like Smogon now omg ;o;


You can practically use a Magikarp with Flail, Tackle and Bounce and dominate any of the Pokemon games.lol irony

Reduction
September 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM
Excuse me?
Stop being so sickeningly arrogant, really.
So suddenly my opinion about the rules being perfectly fine is staff-flattery?
Where do you get off making a statement like that?

I'm saying that S&M doesn't want noobs running around left and right.
Good god.


Noobs aren't the proplem. Pokécommunity S&M should try to certain things in the section. Half of the 'noobs' just need a source other then other sites to make life easier. Parental controls block sites, so a directory here would be useful.

Thoughts
September 2nd, 2009, 05:26 PM
- Your team must be competitively viable, even if it's not good. That means that the movesets you are using on your Pokemon aren't horrific and they're EVed at least fairly well. We're actually willing to be pretty lenient as long as an honest attempt at a competitive team is made and it's clear that you have read (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=158811) the (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=123757) stickies (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=168147).
^
Found that somewhere in the new policy.

We arent discouraging new players. In fact, the mods are more lenient as the team only has to be a teensy bit viable because that's what new players need, a somewhat viable team that may not be good but that's ok, that's why we have RMTs ^^

Azonic
September 2nd, 2009, 05:28 PM
I'm saying that S&M doesn't want noobs running around left and right.
Good god.

Please, stop exaggerating that one little adjustment to the S&M rules to make it more welcoming will make noobs pile up and invade the whole forum. >_> An adjustment can help newbies to battling advance in skill. What's wrong with that?

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:30 PM
Hun, I do think it could change. Should be more welcoming to newbies and help them more instead of only helping the experienced get even better. :/

I don't support In-Game RMTs at all. Quite pointless. There should be competitive RMTs only; and again if the team just sucks but follows the other rules then it should still be approved.

Smells like Smogon now omg ;o;

lol irony
Rofl sorry I misunderstood your point. But there is a continuum of RMTs that should not be broken apart at any point, really. Saying "we allow bad teams but not in-game teams" just makes people think that they can give their in-game teams EVs, natures, and a held item and call it a Wi-Fi team. Seriously some people are even incapable of playing above or even at an in-game level so they should receive help if it is possible.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 05:31 PM
Please, stop exaggerating that one little adjustment to the S&M rules to make it more welcoming will make noobs pile up and invade the whole forum. >_>

If you haven't noticed it kinda happens.
I just think if the thread approval is dropped then in game team rates will be submitted.
It's only common sense.
Wouldn't it get tiring having to deal with that all the time?

I just wonder if there would be a better way to do it.


I haven't noticed because it doesn't.


Tell that to DPPt and 2007 S&M. ]:

Dark Azelf
September 2nd, 2009, 05:33 PM
Please, stop exaggerating that one little adjustment to the S&M rules to make it more welcoming will make noobs pile up and invade the whole forum. >_> An adjustment can help newbies to battling advance in skill. What's wrong with that?

You of all people im surprized at.

Do you not remember how much of an utter crap hole it was in 2007 ? =/

Anyways LOLing at how people who never come into S+M think they have the right to criticize how we run things there. How about i come into your house/somewhere you regular and criticize what YOU do without knowing the ins and outs? Its exactly the same tbh. :/

Infact yeah imma post my full thoughts in a min.


EDIT :

Benadryl mate stellar stuff, I agree 100% with you on this matter.

You would do because iirc you have been warned in the past for the improper knowledge thing.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:34 PM
^
Found that somewhere in the new policy.

We arent discouraging new players. In fact, the mods are more lenient as the team only has to be a teensy bit viable because that's what new players need, a somewhat viable team that may not be good but that's ok, that's why we have RMTs ^^
Wow... you're telling me the mods are lenient? That's not even a viable statement. I'm not saying strict makes them bad mods, but they are in no way lenient. And you're telling me that a member with no knowledge of how to make a "viable" (once again a subjective statement) team should just not post in that section? That's not welcoming to incoming members, something that S&M should be all-for right now. And please stop speaking to me as if I didn't read that thread already.

You of all people im surprized at.

Do you not remember how much of an utter crap hole it was in 2007 ? =/

Anyways LOLing at how people who never come into S+M think they have the right to criticize how we run things there. How about i come into your house/somewhere you regular and criticize what YOU do without knowing the ins and outs? Its exactly the same tbh. :/

Infact yeah imma post my full thoughts in a min.
The reason why S&M was bad in 2007 is because the current rules weren't enforced, not because it needed more. And imo the current S&M is at least 2 or 3 miles deeper into that crap hole that you state it was in during 2007. Why wouldn't you just use the default rules for any thriving S&M forum and actually enforce them instead of punishing everyone by creating a hostile environment?

You would do because iirc you have been infracted in the past for the impropar knowledge thing.
and yeah, if I were infracted for a silly rule violation that discouraged members to post, I'd be supporting this, too. (Although I am supporting this, but you get my point)

Azonic
September 2nd, 2009, 05:36 PM
If you haven't noticed it kinda happens.
I just think if the thread approval is dropped the in game team rates will be submitted.
It's only common sense.
Wouldn't it get tiring having to deal with that all the time?

I haven't noticed because it doesn't.

And if in-game rates are submitted, the solution is easy: mods disapprove the thread.

You of all people im surprized at.

Do you not remember how much of an utter crap hole it was in 2007 ? =/Yeah, so don't make it as lenient? ._.;

I mean, don't allow stuff like "arcanine @ jolly blast time roar moon rock moves:frenzay plnt icebeam aurora smash block". The rule for rating with improper knowledge is fine, but the thread allowification (lol) rate should be lowered a tad.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 05:39 PM
I haven't noticed because it doesn't.

And if in-game rates are submitted, the solution is easy: mods disapprove the thread.

Okay so that means no drop on the approval-disapproval thing.
That could work prolly.

See, I thought you guys meant to drop that.
Gah I need to pay better attention. >:

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:42 PM
I haven't noticed because it doesn't.

And if in-game rates are submitted, the solution is easy: mods disapprove the thread.

Yeah, so don't make it as lenient? ._.;

Really I cannot stress enough that keeping thread validation is what is keeping S&M from being anything other than disappointing. And honestly the competitive rule would be pointless if that necessary step was taken, and discouraging either way, so they really don't deserve any place in the S&M rules.

And really, I'm not asking for the moderators to allow members to disregard already established rules like in 2007. Just have the old rules and enforce them.


Okay so that means no drop on the approval-disapproval thing.
That could work prolly.

See, I thought you guys meant to drop that.
Gah I need to pay better attention. >:

I was going to leave you alone because it appeared you had drifted off into some foreign world where nothing ever happens but you really need to take the next flight back to Earth and read the first post completely. And don't pretend like you ever did. Approval-disapproval is clearly not even remotely designed for S&M and you need to quit making haphazard assumptions about what is / isn't being said.

Azonic
September 2nd, 2009, 05:43 PM
There is like noooo way S&M's gonna drop the thread approval thing. It's a barrier from the regurgitation of 2007.
Okay so that means no drop on the approval-disapproval thing.
That could work prolly.

See, I thought you guys meant to drop that.
Gah I need to pay better attention. >:

Omg S&M could not survive without the approval system. D8

Reduction
September 2nd, 2009, 05:44 PM
You of all people im surprized at.

Do you not remember how much of an utter crap hole it was in 2007 ? =/

Anyways LOLing at how people who never come into S+M think they have the right to criticize how we run things there. How about i come into your house/somewhere you regular and criticize what YOU do without knowing the ins and outs? Its exactly the same tbh. :/

Infact yeah imma post my full thoughts in a min.


EDIT :



You would do because iirc you have been warned in the past for the improper knowledge thing.

Infracted for inproper knowledge isn't infractable. In some forums, it's considered Power Abuse. So the S&M team better buck their ideas up and stop loitering for some thread or for D_A to constataly patronise people with your critique.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:46 PM
There is like noooo way S&M's gonna drop the thread approval thing. It's a barrier from the regurgitation of 2007.
Omg S&M could not survive without the approval system. D8

Really if the moderators need a thread approval system for an open discussion forum then they should not be mods because it is obvious that they have no intention of actually moderating their forum.

(EDIT: Don't cite RP or Fanclub forums or things to that nature, they are not implicit discussion forums and thread approval is actually designed for that type of expression.)

Dark Azelf
September 2nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
Infracted for inproper knowledge isn't infractable. In some forums, it's considered Power Abuse. So the S&M team better buck their ideas up and stop loitering for some thread or for D_A to constataly patronise people with your critique.



Improper knowledge is just the same as spam in s+m. Spam last time i checked was infractable, and lol the old "power abuse" card.


edit :

Really if the moderators need a thread approval system for an open discussion forum then they should not be mods because it is obvious that they have no intention of actually moderating their forum.

And no, its not it saves me, anti and luke time by not coming on every day and locking crappy "rate mai charizard ember @ iron ball" threads, we get ALOT of them. This also prevents trolling.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 05:53 PM
lol

Anyways, improper knowledge is just the same as spam. Spam last time i checked was infractable, and lol the old "power abuse" card.
Yeah nice flamebait removal

And I'd say regurgitating information from your section's sticky thread with no real point is spam too. Really no other forum infracts for bad advice. As long as someone has a real or perceived reason to implement a change, or they are willing to discuss it in a calm and civilized manner, there is no reason to infract them just for not knowing everything about Pokemon.

No it's not power abuse but it's a rule that scares everyone away when you'd think you'd want more members than you currently have.

Azonic
September 2nd, 2009, 05:55 PM
Infracted for inproper knowledge isn't infractable. In some forums, it's considered Power Abuse. So the S&M team better buck their ideas up and stop loitering for some thread or for D_A to constataly patronise people with your critique.1. This is not other forums. This is PC.

2. It was stated that if you rate with improper knowledge, it could be an infractable offense. There are such things as warnings yknow.

3. If it is a rule on PC and it is broken, then it's infractable.


I was going to leave you alone because it appeared you had drifted off into some foreign world where nothing ever happens but you really need to take the next flight back to Earth and read the first post completely. And don't pretend like you ever did. Approval-disapproval is clearly not even remotely designed for S&M and you need to quit making haphazard assumptions about what is / isn't being said.oh my god please kill me now

I don't know if you've ever been to S&M in 2007 there was no approval system. 99% of the threads were:

"hi wats a gud ninetails moovset"

"rate my rayquaza SOLARBEEM FYRE BALST SONICBOOM"

"rate my teem i have 1 pokemon and i need halp with da last 5"

@_______@

Anyways, making an argument trying to remove the approval system is pointless because its just NOT gonna happen.


And I'd say regurgitating information from your section's sticky thread with no real point is spam too. Really no other forum infracts for bad advice. As long as someone has a real or perceived reason to implement a change, or they are willing to discuss it in a calm and civilized manner, there is no reason to infract them just for not knowing everything about Pokemon.Sticky thread is there for convenience? ._. rofl sticky threads being spam. That's a new one.

Bad advice was a big part of 2007's hellhole. Remove that rule and soon you'll have 60 noobs flying around putting "i think your magneton should user focus blast".

Greene1516
September 2nd, 2009, 05:56 PM
You would do because iirc you have been warned in the past for the improper knowledge thing.

Nope I was warned for not spending my precious time doing damage calcs and finding out every little detail about why someone should take a certain move etc. That isn't inproper knowledge, that's having a life. In the battle forum where people actually battle instead of just theorize about it nobody has accused me of such or even close, quite the contrary, but that is not the point of this thread so I will say no more. I just felt a reply was necessary since you would be the type to bring up old occurances that are long since past.

Yuri Lowell
September 2nd, 2009, 05:56 PM
Really if the moderators need a thread approval system for an open discussion forum then they should not be mods because it is obvious that they have no intention of actually moderating their forum.

(EDIT: Don't cite RP or Fanclub forums or things to that nature, they are not implicit discussion forums and thread approval is actually designed for that type of expression.)

But um..

If certain areas lacked the approval system for threads, and they just let everyone run loose with thread posting, then the mods in said area would have to dedicate entire days to keep watch over it. With the amount of spam that would come from that.. oh man. >_>;

Roy G. Biv
September 2nd, 2009, 05:57 PM
Problems I see with this thread:

Benadryl has valid points. People think his points are invalid. They post their also equally valid points. Everybody thinks their points are more valid than everybody elses's. Everyone starts fighting.

Though tbh I am quite scared of S&M o.o

;3

Yuri Lowell
September 2nd, 2009, 05:58 PM
Problems I see with this thread:

Benadryl has valid points. People think his points are invalid. They post their also equally valid points. Everybody thinks their points are more valid than everybody elses's. Everyone starts fighting.


Same thing that always happens in debate worthy threads.. xD;

Yeah, mostly everyone has valid points.. but is any of this really worth so much arguing? :/

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:00 PM
1. This is not other forums. This is PC.

2. It was stated that if you rate with improper knowledge, it could be an infractable offense. There are such things as warnings yknow.

3. If it is a rule on PC and it is broken, then it's infractable.

oh my god please kill me now

I don't know if you've ever been to S&M in 2007 there was no approval system. 99% of the threads were:

"hi wats a gud ninetails moovset"

"rate my rayquaza SOLARBEEM FYRE BALST SONICBOOM"

"rate my teem i have 1 pokemon and i need halp with da last 5"

@_______@

Anyways, making an argument trying to remove the approval system is pointless because its just NOT gonna happen.
wow yeah you're right something that clearly needs to happen to keep S&M from being terrible is just NOT gonna happen.

Yeah, I was there in 2007. I really thought you knew that as you and I often posted in all of the same threads. And we were "buddies" then. But that's not important. What's important is that S&M in 2007 wasn't bad. You guys think that threads from people who actually need help are so much worse than pointless threads filled with standard movesets that don't operate as a team, receive 3 pointless rates with little return feedback from the OP, and then die with little to no changes made to the team.

And how about we try a spin at 2006 ish times? Not many people at S&M now were at PC then but it was really a great forum then. Where was the garbage thread approval system? I dunno, but not in S&M.

Dark Azelf
September 2nd, 2009, 06:00 PM
Yeah nice flamebait removal

I have no idea what you are talking about lol

And I'd say regurgitating information from your section's sticky thread with no real point is spam too. Really no other forum infracts for bad advice. As long as someone has a real or perceived reason to implement a change, or they are willing to discuss it in a calm and civilized manner, there is no reason to infract them just for not knowing everything about Pokemon.


Im not expecting them to know everything, just competant and having some knowledge and a basic understanding and hold off on rating teams untill they know what they are doing.

Its like me trying to show someone about graphics, i havent the foggiest about them so im not gonna go into that forum and spam it am i lol ?

1. This is not other forums. This is PC.

2. It was stated that if you rate with improper knowledge, it could be an infractable offense. There are such things as warnings yknow.

3. If it is a rule on PC and it is broken, then it's infractable.

oh my god please kill me now

I don't know if you've ever been to S&M in 2007 there was no approval system. 99% of the threads were:

"hi wats a gud ninetails moovset"

"rate my rayquaza SOLARBEEM FYRE BALST SONICBOOM"

"rate my teem i have 1 pokemon and i need halp with da last 5"

@_______@

Anyways, making an argument trying to remove the approval system is pointless because its just NOT gonna happen.

^this.

Reduction
September 2nd, 2009, 06:00 PM
lol

Anyways, improper knowledge is just the same as spam. Spam last time i checked was infractable, and lol the old "power abuse" card.

SPAM, Stupid, Pointless, Annoying Messages. First, Inproper knowledge in a person must tell you that they are trying, so it really isn't pointless. While it is annoying and stupid, is there any need at all for an infraction. You don't get told off [infracted, in this case] at school for having any inproper knowledge, unless it's really important. Last time I checked, Pokèmon Stratigies and Movesets aren't as important as tests.

But what is annoying, is people using lol after virtually EVERY sentence in S&M, which is something you love, D_A.

So really, the rules there aren't at all practical, and I'd say are in desperate need of change.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:02 PM
But um..

If certain areas lacked the approval system for threads, and they just let everyone run loose with thread posting, then the mods in said area would have to dedicate entire days to keep watch over it. With the amount of spam that would come from that.. oh man. >_>;
Yeah I think everyone has the wrong picture of what S&M is like, as in they don't remember, they weren't there, they never frequented the forum. It was much better without thread approval. It is, after all, a help forum. o_o

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 06:03 PM
Besides, this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=169651) thread and this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=169643) thread seem perfectly suitable for helping newbies to competitive battling. D:

Maybe that's just me.

Roy G. Biv
September 2nd, 2009, 06:04 PM
SPAM, Stupid, Pointless, Annoying Messages. First, Inproper knowledge in a person must tell you that they are trying, so it really isn't pointless. While it is annoying and pointless, is there any need at all for an infraction. You don't get told off [infracted, in this case] at school for having any inproper knowledge, unless it's really important. Last time I checked, Pokèmon Stratigies and Movesets aren't as important as tests.

But what is annoying, is people using lol after virtually EVERY sentence in S&M, which is something you love, D_A.

So really, the rules there aren't at all practical, and I'd say are in desperate need of change.
OBJECTION!!!
x]

There are some good points in this thread, guys, and if I were you I'd read through it but take everything here with a grain of salt, you know? Most of the people I've seen have at least a semi-valid point. It's not gonna help anything ever if the ones with power are the people going "NO ME'S RIGHT YOU'S RONG!1" just as much as everyone else>.<

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:04 PM
Besides, this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=169651) thread and this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=169643) thread seem perfectly suitable for helping newbies to competitive battling. D:

Maybe that's just me.

Yeah it is just you.

You have to actually build teams to get better at it.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 06:07 PM
Yeah it is just you.

You have to actually build teams to get better at it.

Then, they can ask anything they need to know to get started in the Q&A.
After that they can begin building teams or use google for further information on the things they wanna know.

Or they can travel on over to the Incomplete Team Help thread to ask for some assistance.
Those two threads exist for help and you are completely acting as if newbies are left in the cold with not a bit of hope in creating competitive teams.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:09 PM
Then, they can ask anything they need to know to get started in the Q&A.
After that they can begin building teams or use google for further information on the things they wanna know.

Or they can travel on over to the Incomplete Team Help thread to ask for some assistance.

Wow, someone who was trying to tell me how S&M works, with no knowledge of how the forum or battling at all works. The Incomplete Team thread is still an entirely competitive thread. Plus, there is no reason to limit new players to a single thread with every need they have.

Dark Azelf
September 2nd, 2009, 06:11 PM
SPAM, Stupid, Pointless, Annoying Messages. First, Inproper knowledge in a person must tell you that they are trying, so it really isn't pointless. While it is annoying and pointless, is there any need at all for an infraction. You don't get told off [infracted, in this case] at school for having any inproper knowledge, unless it's really important. Last time I checked, Pokèmon Stratigies and Movesets aren't as important as tests.

So really, the rules there aren't at all practical, and I'd say are in desperate need of change.

Umm, im all for helping people if they dont know what they are doing/are inexperienced/have Inproper knowledge. I put a vast amount of time into my rates to HELP people get better which you would know if you were active there...oh wait. :/

For the last time, being inexperienced isnt my gripe here. Its being inexperienced AND helping other people when you dont know what you are doing.

Its like giving directions, you dont know the way and you give false directions you get someone else lost. You do more harm than good, so you need to learn first basically. Heck i know id research a subject i dont know alot about before trying to give advice. "Jeez well at least i tried" doesnt really help anyone.

So yes, in short it is spam.

All i ask is you have a basic knowledge/understanding of competitive battling before posting. My god is it so hard to ask for ? :/


But what is annoying, is people using lol after virtually EVERY sentence in S&M, which is something you love, D_A.

And so is posting trollish messages on a pokemon forum. =]

EDIT :


Wow, someone who was trying to tell me how S&M works, with no knowledge of how the forum or battling at all works. The Incomplete Team thread is still an entirely competitive thread. Plus, there is no reason to limit new players to a single thread with every need they have.

lol she is actually better than you btw, just thought id throw that out there and she has a good knowledge of how s+m works a] because she is a good battler b] because i told her how it works c] she has a good knowledge in general. So dont assume things plox.

The Red Chain
September 2nd, 2009, 06:13 PM
The Incomplete Team thread is still an entirely competitive thread. Plus, there is no reason to limit new players to a single thread with every need they have.

If they need to learn about EVs, IVs, Natures whatever it may be they can ask in the Q&A about them and get their answers.
They can just as easily ask about tiers, items and what not.
There is a reason, it limits spam and keeps the forum base for just the RMTs.
It's called organization and helps the staff keep better track of what goes down in S&M.

It's not rocket science.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:14 PM
Umm, im all for helping people if they dont know what they are doing/are inexperienced. I put a vast amount of time into my rates which you would know if you were active there...oh wait. :/

For the last time, being inexperienced isnt my gripe here. Its being inexperienced AND helping other people when you dont know what you are doing.

Its like giving directions, you dont know the way and you give false directions you get someone else lost. You do more harm than good, so you need to learn first basically. Heck i know id research a subject i dont know alot about before trying to give advice. "Jeez well at least i tried" doesnt really help anyone.

So yes, in short it is spam.

All i ask is you have a basic knowledge/understanding of cometitive battling before posting. My god is it so hard to ask for ? :/
Eh you are still ignoring the fact that the mistakes are easily correctable and the controversy allows for a more open discussion. You are leaving nothing up to interpretation and are basically forbidding anyone to even attempt to get better.

Dark Azelf
September 2nd, 2009, 06:16 PM
Eh you are still ignoring the fact that the mistakes are easily correctable and the controversy allows for a more open discussion. You are leaving nothing up to interpretation and are basically forbidding anyone to even attempt to get better.

I point out mistakes and im sure other people do and then correct them, so im giving space for improvement.

I really only delete/infract blatantly stupid posts like "put hyper beem on ur skarm it ownz scizor" <---thats the sort of crap i dont want and i infract those for obvious reasons.

Reduction
September 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
Umm, im all for helping people if they dont know what they are doing/are inexperienced/have Inproper knowledge. I put a vast amount of time into my rates to HELP people get better which you would know if you were active there...oh wait. :/

For the last time, being inexperienced isnt my gripe here. Its being inexperienced AND helping other people when you dont know what you are doing.

Its like giving directions, you dont know the way and you give false directions you get someone else lost. You do more harm than good, so you need to learn first basically. Heck i know id research a subject i dont know alot about before trying to give advice. "Jeez well at least i tried" doesnt really help anyone.

So yes, in short it is spam.

All i ask is you have a basic knowledge/understanding of cometitive battling before posting. My god is it so hard to ask for ? :/



And so is posting trollish messages on a pokemon forum. =]

Thanks D_A, according to you, I don't know what what I am doing. Real great being as I do. When I read the S&M rule for Inproper Knowledge, I thought that you must be joking. You'd INFRACT or WARN a person with false knowledge, but where is that going to get them. Is it not hard to delete their posts and VM a link to where they can gey knowledge, or do you have an infracting fetish.

Just because your a Moderator, dosen't make you big, buff and clever. Your human, like everyone else, with or without staff powers.

What really annoys me is patronising moderators, like Dark_Azlef.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
I point out mistakes and im sure other people do and then correct them, so im giving space for improvement.

I really only delete/infract blatantly stupid posts like "put hyper beem on ur skarm it ownz scizor" <---thats the sort of crap i dont want and i infract those for obvious reasons.
The rule is still discouraging and should be modified. But I'm not so concerned about that rule. The thread approval and competitive rate rule are undeniably sharpening S&M down to the eraser and breaking off the lead, making it useless and unattractive.

Dark Azelf
September 2nd, 2009, 06:27 PM
Thanks D_A, according to you, I don't know what what I am doing. Real great being as I do. When I read the S&M rule for Inproper Knowledge, I thought that you must be joking. You'd INFRACT or WARN a person with false knowledge, but where is that going to get them. Is it not hard to delete their posts and VM a link to where they can gey knowledge, or do you have an infracting fetish.

I have many fetishes, i mean doesnt that infract button make you hot ?

Anyways seriously, i include where to get said information in the infraction or over pm if i didnt infract them and just deleted it, dont worry out that.

Just because your a Moderator, dosen't make you big, buff and clever. Your human, like everyone else, with or without staff powers.

Well i do work out soo~

What really annoys me is patronising moderators, like Dark_Azlef.

Ilu2 <3

Back to s+m i go to abuse my power on you all >D


edit


@ Benadryl, i guess if it means that much to you we could put in a sticky for non competitive teams, but i doubt it will go far, but i guess we could give it a trial run. :/

As for the thread approval i really dont want silly threads being auto approved i really dont.

Benadryl
September 2nd, 2009, 06:29 PM
Ilu2 <3

Back to s+m i go to abuse my power on you all >D
That's not funny because a) there's no one there to abuse it on and b) the lack of freedom in that forum is pretty much already power abusive.

Zorua
September 2nd, 2009, 06:31 PM
DA is the grim reaper of S&M.

All bones and no skin. >:[ pfft.

But he does take action when the time is right. ^___^

/killthread

I am so awesome.

Greene1516
September 2nd, 2009, 07:45 PM
Besides, this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=169651) thread and this (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=169643) thread seem perfectly suitable for helping newbies to competitive battling. D:

Maybe that's just me.


You know you make an excellent point that the simple questions and answers thread could be the place for the "noobs" as they would be, the problem is if someone does step out of bounds and post a list or suggestion elsewhere that is deemed incompetent and/or noobish they aren't directed as such to said thread like in a lot of the other forums. This simple drive or incentive to push people in the right direction would solve a lot of would-be problems then.

Melody
September 2nd, 2009, 08:21 PM
I hate to have to agree with a newbie like this, but the current rules in S&M are far too draconian for it's activity rate. There needs to be a close review of all the rules, and perhaps removal of a few of them as well. I won't say which rules I like or dislike, I'm just going to say that particular sub-forum is in dire need of an administrator supervised rules overhaul. I'm not trying to be a jerk off to the mods or anything like that. They generally do a good job, but it's so inhospitable in there, that people can barely rate, and learn how to do so.

That being said, I do hope the S&M mods read this post and realize I'm being a lot more fair in my critique of it than most newbies would. I can understand the need for a lot of those rules but now I think the time is nigh to make it a little more attractive to various groups...not saying that you shouldn't take away the moderation for new threads, I think that helps fight spam anyways.

Anyways, that's my two cents on it. I'm not a big S&M fan, but I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to jump through a ton of hoops to get a team rated. :)

Black Mage
September 2nd, 2009, 08:24 PM
Oh Mobile Tsk. We all know the real reasoning behind this. You have a personal vendetta against D_A, Anti and I. For the last two+ years, whether you were Peabobo, Purfugly, Mobile Tsk, C'est whatever, you've consistently harassed us, trolled us and made our lives miserable. You don't care about the S&M forum. You've always done whatever possible to try to make us look bad.

"Blah, blah, blah you'll never be able to prove it without an IP match. I'll continue to come back to PC and bug you guys. You can never ban me forever." I won't forget when you said that. You knew there was no way I could definitely prove it. You think you're safe behind your new IPs and user names. But trust me my dear, insanity shows through no matter what and you Mobile/Cest/Purfugly/Peabobo, are no exception.

Green and Golden whatever, you two are shining examples of why we're so "strict." You come into the forum thinking you know what you're talking about. You rate and confuse other members, leading them to make poor decisions. You say you have "too much of a life" to rate well. If that's the case, then don't rate. Just continue to play the way you want. Post teams you'd like and get rates. Listen to the advice or don't. It's your decision in the end. But don't start rating below the standards we set. Guess what: that's our privilege as the moderators of that section. We only infract after several warnings and blatant disregard to what we're saying. D_A is the best player on PC. So he knows what he's talking about and he can tell what's a bad rate. Anti and I aren't too shabby either. We've around for a long time and we've seen awesome rates and terrible rates. We know what we're talking about.

Ask some of our seasoned veterans like Pokedra and Aurafire. They weren't the best at first and they learned to not rate until they became more familiar with the game. I didn't rate for the longest time either. I lurked and learned. I knew better. I don't see what's wrong of expecting people to have a relatively thorough knowledge of the game before rating.

The rules aren't that hard to follow. We let through any thread that isn't completely and utterly lacking in any information. We all review the threads the other moderators delete and if we think it could possibly fit in, we'll talk to each other and decide as a group to let it back through. Contrary to popular belief, we don't sit around going "teehee let's screw with some people today *^_^*" We have lives too (shocking, I know, especially for people who play Pokemon competitively). As Milki or whatever pointed out, we do have several threads where people can learn the gist of the metagame. If they don't have the experience to give descriptions of their roles, they can post in the Q&A thread or the Request thread for help. And they can go to Smogon to read the numerous, thorough guides they have up. Not everything has to be done on here. You said it yourself: we're not a community built around competitive Pokemon. We're not going to sit here and walk everyone through everything. We'll help when needed but don't expect us to do everything for you.

Perhaps we can get a notice at the top for first time visitors to the S&M forum to read the stickies and visit the threads. If they post a team and it doesn't appear, perhaps we can have in the notice to "WAIT A FEW HOURS BEFORE POLITELY PMING A STAFF MEMBER LISTED AT THE BOTTOM TO SEE IF THEIR THREAD HAS BEEN APPROVED YET AND IF IT WASNT, WHAT CAN YOU DO." I know we're all very sexy and intimidated, we will help you. As long you're polite.

[/end Anti and Beachboy tl;dr response]

Jake♫
September 2nd, 2009, 09:14 PM
^Truth

First thing I'm just going to point out: How is it different when "D_A is shutting down opinions leaving no room for change?" when you go and DIRECTLY tell people that their opinions are totally wrong? Honestly, hypocrisy...

Anyways, when I first came into the S&M section, I was intimidated by the rules. But guess what? I've learned that they are there for a reason! The MAJORITY of them are all needed (Oh, time to prove another point wrong C'est. You said no other writing section requires approval like Battle Logs. I'll just point you to Pokemon Roleplay. THEY NEED APPROVAL.). A few are a little overbearing, but then again that isn't the only section of the forum that's like that either. Anyways, from that intimidation, I moved on and posted a thread. It's the INTERNET, intimidation is bound to happen, and the anonymity of it should allow you to continue on with your life and just do what you want to do (Within reason xD). After that first rating (Brutal, but that team was awful), I actually LEARNED a lot from the INTELLIGENT ratings, and the poor ones confused the heck out of me. Thank god they were deleted.

On the whole thread approval topic, spam would just clog the section if it wasn't there. I've seen threads get through recently that should be in one of the stickies. If that requirement was lifted, the stickies would most likely get ignored and everyone would just make individual threads that go against the rules anyways.

What has irritated me most about this debate was at least half of those siding with you C'est, have never even posted in the section in the first place. Their opinions are nice to have, and I do respect them, but at the same time how do they really know how it's run? At the same time, the first impression is quite informative, so they still need to be accounted for. But the majority of the time, they don't provide as much insight as those who do have knowledge on the subject with experience.

All in all, the rules (Minus a few) should stand, and by no means is anyone abusing their powers. D_A, Anti, and Brittney all have experience, and their reasoning for infractions, warnings, or post deletions are qualified and follow the rules that the section has provided. And honestly, from what I've seen in the past, this does seem more personal than a caring of PC.

Pokedra
September 3rd, 2009, 01:05 AM
The current S&M rules are fine as it is and I can't see any reason to change.

While I do admit that activity has been dropping lately, I don't really think the "strictness" is driving people away. At first it may be a little daunting with some of the extra rules but they really do help the section and keep it SPAM/troll-free. Maybe your first attempt at a RMT is rejected but you can ask the mod(Anti, D_A and Luke) what you did wrong and they can PM it back to you so you can fix it up and post it again. This way you learn and honestly the mods aren't that strict, I've seen a few pretty horrible teams that they've approved and people have helped the OP make it much, much better. Plus the stickies do help people, Anti's Threats in OU sticky was pretty helpful for me when I frst joined S&M and built my first team and the stickies by Luke/Anti/Cherii would give you some basic knowledge on competitive battling.

Sure in-game teams would increase activity but having horrible RMT's isn't really going to help the section and I honestly can't see why you need in-game teams to be rated, you can use anything you like with terrible movesets and still beat the E4 easy =/

Dropping the thread approval would be overkill, there would be way more SPAM and trolling and it'd make the S&M mods life hell as they'd have to lock heaps of threads and it would also clog up the forum. I don't want to come to S&M and see threads with Blastoise @ Macho Brace - Bubble / Water Gun / Water Pulse / Bubblebeam...lol

What annoys me is that the people were are criticizing S&M and calling it "strict" haven't even posted there, how do you know how the section is run? D_A, Anti and Luke have run it for ages and they've done a great job.

It's right for them to delete rates that are bad, otherwise the OP will be conned into making bad decisions. Why should a post suggesting you use Jolly Specs Flygon (yes I've seen it :/) be left there. If your posts get deleted constantly and you ignore a mod's warning then you deserve the infraction they give you. It's not power abuse..

The rules are fine, if you come into S&M with some basic knowledge you should be fine, the mods aren't that evil ^__^' If you haven't rated much before, just lurk around and read and learn. After becoming more familiar with the metagame and reading heaps of RMT's and doing some battling you'll find you can pick teams apart ;]

Benadryl
September 3rd, 2009, 03:17 AM
^Truth

First thing I'm just going to point out: How is it different when "D_A is shutting down opinions leaving no room for change?" when you go and DIRECTLY tell people that their opinions are totally wrong? Honestly, hypocrisy...

I only tell people that the evidence they are using to back up their opinions is either not sufficient, or false. So quit paraphrasing in your head and actually read what I'm saying.

Anyways, when I first came into the S&M section, I was intimidated by the rules. But guess what? I've learned that they are there for a reason! The MAJORITY of them are all needed (Oh, time to prove another point wrong C'est. You said no other writing section requires approval like Battle Logs. I'll just point you to Pokemon Roleplay. THEY NEED APPROVAL.). A few are a little overbearing, but then again that isn't the only section of the forum that's like that either. Anyways, from that intimidation, I moved on and posted a thread. It's the INTERNET, intimidation is bound to happen, and the anonymity of it should allow you to continue on with your life and just do what you want to do (Within reason xD). After that first rating (Brutal, but that team was awful), I actually LEARNED a lot from the INTELLIGENT ratings, and the poor ones confused the heck out of me. Thank god they were deleted.

You have proven nothing right but your inability to take everything with a grain of salt. It should be blatantly obvious which rate is more knowledgable so unless you're just infuriatingly impossible, it shouldn't be a problem.

On the whole thread approval topic, spam would just clog the section if it wasn't there. I've seen threads get through recently that should be in one of the stickies. If that requirement was lifted, the stickies would most likely get ignored and everyone would just make individual threads that go against the rules anyways.

There is no evidence suggesting such and people need to quit saying that. There is spam in every section, so, as I have said, unless the staff is lazy, it should not be a problem. Where you even there 3 years ago?

What has irritated me most about this debate was at least half of those siding with you C'est, have never even posted in the section in the first place. Their opinions are nice to have, and I do respect them, but at the same time how do they really know how it's run? At the same time, the first impression is quite informative, so they still need to be accounted for. But the majority of the time, they don't provide as much insight as those who do have knowledge on the subject with experience.

Yeah, because they have not been listening to the mods bawwing about how terrible the section was before they came in. You see, people have real opions.

All in all, the rules (Minus a few) should stand, and by no means is anyone abusing their powers. D_A, Anti, and Brittney all have experience, and their reasoning for infractions, warnings, or post deletions are qualified and follow the rules that the section has provided. And honestly, from what I've seen in the past, this does seem more personal than a caring of PC.

Oh Mobile Tsk. We all know the real reasoning behind this. You have a personal vendetta against D_A, Anti and I. For the last two+ years, whether you were Peabobo, Purfugly, Mobile Tsk, C'est whatever, you've consistently harassed us, trolled us and made our lives miserable. You don't care about the S&M forum. You've always done whatever possible to try to make us look bad.

"Blah, blah, blah you'll never be able to prove it without an IP match. I'll continue to come back to PC and bug you guys. You can never ban me forever." I won't forget when you said that. You knew there was no way I could definitely prove it. You think you're safe behind your new IPs and user names. But trust me my dear, insanity shows through no matter what and you Mobile/Cest/Purfugly/Peabobo, are no exception.

Green and Golden whatever, you two are shining examples of why we're so "strict." You come into the forum thinking you know what you're talking about. You rate and confuse other members, leading them to make poor decisions. You say you have "too much of a life" to rate well. If that's the case, then don't rate. Just continue to play the way you want. Post teams you'd like and get rates. Listen to the advice or don't. It's your decision in the end. But don't start rating below the standards we set. Guess what: that's our privilege as the moderators of that section. We only infract after several warnings and blatant disregard to what we're saying. D_A is the best player on PC. So he knows what he's talking about and he can tell what's a bad rate. Anti and I aren't too shabby either. We've around for a long time and we've seen awesome rates and terrible rates. We know what we're talking about.

Ask some of our seasoned veterans like Pokedra and Aurafire. They weren't the best at first and they learned to not rate until they became more familiar with the game. I didn't rate for the longest time either. I lurked and learned. I knew better. I don't see what's wrong of expecting people to have a relatively thorough knowledge of the game before rating.

The rules aren't that hard to follow. We let through any thread that isn't completely and utterly lacking in any information. We all review the threads the other moderators delete and if we think it could possibly fit in, we'll talk to each other and decide as a group to let it back through. Contrary to popular belief, we don't sit around going "teehee let's screw with some people today *^_^*" We have lives too (shocking, I know, especially for people who play Pokemon competitively). As Milki or whatever pointed out, we do have several threads where people can learn the gist of the metagame. If they don't have the experience to give descriptions of their roles, they can post in the Q&A thread or the Request thread for help. And they can go to Smogon to read the numerous, thorough guides they have up. Not everything has to be done on here. You said it yourself: we're not a community built around competitive Pokemon. We're not going to sit here and walk everyone through everything. We'll help when needed but don't expect us to do everything for you.

Perhaps we can get a notice at the top for first time visitors to the S&M forum to read the stickies and visit the threads. If they post a team and it doesn't appear, perhaps we can have in the notice to "WAIT A FEW HOURS BEFORE POLITELY PMING A STAFF MEMBER LISTED AT THE BOTTOM TO SEE IF THEIR THREAD HAS BEEN APPROVED YET AND IF IT WASNT, WHAT CAN YOU DO." I know we're all very sexy and intimidated, we will help you. As long you're polite.

[/end Anti and Beachboy tl;dr response]
Yeah this post is pretty much the funniest thing I have ever read. First of all I never replied to your assumption that Mobile Tsk and I were the same person. I do not know who that is so there was no point in getting in yet another fight with you.

Now, regardless of whatever Mobile Tsk did to you, I have never harrassed you. Any of you. You, however, have harrassed me to a very severe degree. So don't bring up harrassment when all you do is try to scare people. You have some vendetta with anyone who doesn't meet your standards (there must be a maximum IQ or something) and quickly have them removed from bgt's (ie not yours) server, the #tpc chatroom, and eventually, if your plans follow through, PC. Sadly, I don't break the rules here like I did when I was a new member so unless you're going to once again ban someone without any reason you're going to be disappointed.

Speaking of disappointment, I'm pretty frustrated at this post you made. It's far too easy to prove a point against it and it's filled with blatant fallacies everywhere. Do you really want to insult the opposition, making others disrespect your opinion? Go ahead. My last suggestion was taken into consideration, so you should politely consider making PC's (ie not yours) S&M less awful.

lol she is actually better than you btw, just thought id throw that out there and she has a good knowledge of how s+m works a] because she is a good battler b] because i told her how it works c] she has a good knowledge in general. So dont assume things plox.
Oh sorry rofl I thought you were going to be serious and quit trolling in my thread.

Zorua
September 3rd, 2009, 03:19 AM
Yaaay! Now that I'm on a computer, it's my turn! ^___^

No, Strategies and movesets needs not to change. That forum is for serious competitive battlers only. I mean, I'm pretty sure that anybody can use any old Joe in-game team to kick-ass in-game, but this is competitive battling we're talking about here. :| No, Strategies isn't smogon, as you pointed that out. Strategies is strategies, so leave it alone.

And you're Mobile Tsk? lol, did you have me fooled for a while. To be honest, looking at the kinds of posts that you've made in this thread, I'm really not surprised that this is really you. I find this sorta hilarious, but that's not the point. I'm moving on to like, destroy your other points and stuff, ya? ^o^

If you have a problem with strategies and movesets, simply don't post there. Plain and simple. Nobody's forcing you to post; it's that simple, really. I mean, make Luke's life(as well as DA's and Anti's) easier and just vanish off the face of the Earth. Please do, we could seriously do without your trolling, plz.

Also, there's something called Shoddy Chat, which...idk, I believe most competitive discussion takes place there anyway, but whenever someone new or something like that needs advice on teams, sure why not just post in S&M and as long as you adhere by the rules, you're completely fine! Follow the specified format for stating your pokemon competitive battle team, as, to my understanding, that's pretty much the only way the raters would ever make sensible rates.

If you don't specify correct formats, there are no rates. Easy.

And I frequent Strategies and Movesets; so I have never seen your name pretty much anywhere, so you have no basis at all to criticize Dark_Azelf, much less the Strategies forum as a whole for just about anything. If you were a regular, that would be a different story. But oh well; too bad so sad. Go cry to someone else about this crap you're spouting.

I was stalking this thread for a pretty long time when I was on a my Wii; I'm very disappointed by the majority of you that's been ganging up on Milkii and Dark_Azelf; especially when their points are much more valid than the points the rest of you are trying to bring up against them. I also know what happened in Strategies and Movesets in 2007; I know it was hell. Thread Approval system stays. Nothing changes.

You don't like it? Don't visit. Nobody, especially Luke, D_A, nor Anti, needs your crap about this. The End.


:3


Btw, don't even plan on trolling me with some fake egotistical response because even I know that you can't troll. If you have nothing else to say, you have nothing else to say/contribute to the topic. No harm. Your pride maybe, but boohoo. :(

[/endbeingblunt]

Dark Azelf
September 3rd, 2009, 03:48 AM
Oh sorry rofl I thought you were going to be serious and quit trolling in my thread.

Im not trolling, im being truthful.


That being said this thread is going no where.

Reduction
September 3rd, 2009, 04:02 AM
Ok, guys. Quit argueing. While I am a little ticked off that I have been told I don't know what I am talking about, while I do.

Luke and D_A have the most valid points here; I am in the wrong, and I realise that.

If Benedryl really only did make this to stir things up, I hate myself for even looking and agreing to something so trivial.

I'd rant long, but alas, it's tiring while on a Wii v..v;

Aurafire
September 3rd, 2009, 04:14 AM
Dude, even if you're not Mobile, did you ignore everything Luke said? You clearly have no idea how S&M works...And if his post was easy to prove points against, then why didn't you?

It's not your right to just stroll into S&M and post utter crap and have the mods approve it. I know D_A, Luke and Anti all very well and I know that they would never dismiss a thread simply because a team was "bad" or the player was relatively new. You're making huge assumptions with no way to back them up. I was not around for 2007, but I have been around S&M for almost a year now and I heard all the stories. You can't honestly believe that a 2007 is better than the current one =/

And yeah, I agree with all who said that S&M can be a bit intimidating. And guess what? It should be. Otherwise the forum will cease to be "Strategies and Movesets". Luke is absolutely right, they don't expect perfection from every new member, but they do expect them to know what their talking about before rating or posting teams. I doubt that's too hard to ask. I know I was very intimidated when I first came to S&M, but I learned a lot by reading posts by others and I didn't start posting myself until I was comfortable with my knowledge.

The Shoddy server is a whole different deal. If you're new and want to learn, that's totally fine if you come on and ask questions. But a lot of people come on just to troll and be totally annoying with no sense of purpose. Trust me, I've been there for a while and I've seen some very painful conversations, so if someone randomly gets kicked, it's usually not a big deal, but it's only after multiple instances of annoying the crap out of us will they be banned for any amount of time.

Anyway, main point, perhaps if you had politely stated that you thought S&M was driving away newer players and that you disagreed with some of the rules, we wouldn't have a huge thread of arguments. But you had to pick the rules apart piece by piece, rules that have been around for a while and are critical to a functioning S&M. It's ok to be frustrated, but you're dreaming if you think the mods will listen to you with that type of tone.

And by the way, contrary to what you may believe, S&M does infact belong to D_A Luke and Anti, and they can run it however they please. If this is some plea to the higher staff, they have no way of knowing what's best for the section because most of them do not go there. They trust the mods and their judgement, so you'll need the mods on your side if you want the rules to change. But once again, you presented this horribly in a way that challenged S&M and it's rules instead of politely stating your ideas, so you shouldn't be surprised when none of the mods agree with you.

Lol, totally not necessary, but I wanted to get this all out before I went to class today >;

Jubilation
September 3rd, 2009, 04:29 AM
Am I the only person who thinks this thread should just be closed to avoid alot of arguments?

Greene1516
September 3rd, 2009, 04:30 AM
Green and Golden whatever, you two are shining examples of why we're so "strict." You come into the forum thinking you know what you're talking about. You rate and confuse other members, leading them to make poor decisions. You say you have "too much of a life" to rate well. If that's the case, then don't rate. Just continue to play the way you want. Post teams you'd like and get rates. Listen to the advice or don't. It's your decision in the end. But don't start rating below the standards we set. Guess what: that's our privilege as the moderators of that section. We only infract after several warnings and blatant disregard to what we're saying. D_A is the best player on PC. So he knows what he's talking about and he can tell what's a bad rate. Anti and I aren't too shabby either. We've around for a long time and we've seen awesome rates and terrible rates. We know what we're talking about.

Sorry but who the hell are you to judge anybody. First off, you have never battled me nor see me battle to know how good I am. Secondly, I never said I had too much of a life to rate, I said I have too much of a life to go into every single detail, doing the damage calcs and the chances of critical hits etc. I'm not criticing anybody else for doing it, if people want to do that that is fine, my point is that it is that the same should be reciprocated from the other side. Another point, I have never disputed D_A's ability to play and rate, you are right he probably is one of the best on here and I acknowledge entirely that he is likely miles better than I am. Who is better than who has nothing to do with this or anything I said. I also never mentioned anything about infracting, and I also find it hard to see how I go onto S&M and make poor rates that confuse people since I don't go on the S&M forums. I went on twice before; once two guys there made a hassle because I suggested an alternate and Anti helped me out and pointed out that my set was valid, so that was hardly going in the wrong direction. The only other time I went on was a dispute of info. between myself and D_A and that wasn't a rate either. And the thing is, obviously after said dispute myself and D_A are not fond of each other, but I honestly respect most of what he said here on this thread because he made valid points and as it is now Benadryl has taken this thread OTT and made it personal. But this post you have made is just as bad as what he is posting since you are firing bullets at me that aren't even related to things I said. In simple english, you are being a jerk.

Ivysaur
September 3rd, 2009, 04:37 AM
That being said this thread is going no where.

And pretty fast, I'd add.

So yeah, flamewars are not cool, guys.