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View Full Version : Suggestion: Two suggestions regarding Other Writing and Pokemon FF


Haz
September 25th, 2009, 02:09 AM
I have two suggestions, one regarding Pokemon FF, and merging Other Writing and Pokemon FF together in a big Writing thread.

Okay, first suggestion, moving Pokemon FF to Creative Discussions. Its being creative so I guess it belongs there more then Alternetive Pokemon Discussions.

Second suggestion: Merging the two writing threads together.
They both regarding the same thing, in a way, and by merging them together, I believe the Other Writing thread will be more popular.
Here is my suggestion on how to set it out. The Writing Lounge will be the first thing you acess with the appropiate Stickies. The Other Writing and Pokemon FF will be sun forums.

Good idea or not?

.Seth
September 25th, 2009, 01:16 PM
1. Creative Discussions is not for Pokemon related things, other than hacks, which are an exception. That's Other Writings place, not Pokemon.
There's two sections on PC, pokemon, and non-pokemon.
Pokemon stuff stays together, non-pokemon stuff stays together. They don't mix.

2. Pokemon stuff stays together, non-pokemon stuff stays together. They don't mix.

Link
September 25th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Okay, the above poster answered suggestion 1 fine, so I'm not going to mirror what he has just said. I will however say that your second suggestion has been considered to be logical, or deemed to be a good move at least by other members. On the contrary via my own opinion though as I feel it wouldn't benifet the section greatly at all. You see I feel there are certain things that could be done with OW & it's sub-forum poetry, rather than just poolingall the writing sections together. I have an opinion, not something that is to be taken too seriously but, I do think that the section is being smothered by other sections as maybe it isn't as appealaing to most users. I haappen to know that there is a lot of PC members who enjoy reading and writing but they just don't like to post their work or at lest they feel that there isn't much point. However, I do think that if every member who does write or read in their own free time posted in the section that is Other Writing, we'd have a very active section. I feel there could be something like the writers lounge like in Pokemon FF & Pokemon Poetry, for both Other Writing & Poetry. I think it woud benifet some members trying to develop their work and get better opinions and add new aspects to their writing.
Now, onto your next point, in saying that they are basically the same. Well they're not, this is a pokemon forum so naturally there will be a lot of fan-based writing. Fan Fiction is a very popular aspect of the pokemon fanbase. I wouldn't pool it in with the likes of things you see in Other Writing. I feel that the sections would become a little untidy and a little harder to navigate through. If you take it this way, there are those who enjoy to read fanfics, but do not enjoy to read anything that is not actually based on pokemon, it would be a little harder for them to find FF's amongst what is a broad selction of genres (Other Writing as well as Pokemon FF) wouldn't it?
Now, don't get me wrong, they could be divided amongst sub-forums etcertera but, then, if it were to be moved to Creative Discussions, we would have the same issue with including pokemon related writing (which is more popular than other writing at the moment). If you take hacking, it isn't just a section for pokmemon hacks, there are other types of hacks there too, but Pokemon just happens to be a popular base game for people to hack.
I feel that the sections are best suited where they are but possibly there could be something done to make Other Writing more appealing to writers. Admitedly, I can't think of too much but, if I sat down to think about it I'm sure I could. Pokemon FF just happens to be a more popular section, this is a pokemon forum after all. However, Other Writing is a very broad section, there could be any number of things put there, just not pokemon related stuff.
All in all, it's better to keep Pokemon amongst Pokemon & others amongst other.

Mika
September 25th, 2009, 04:41 PM
o_o; There's nothing wrong with this option at all. Other Writing isn't NEARLY as active as Pokemon Fan Fiction [much like Pokemon Roleplay was MUCH more active than Other Roleplay] and the staff merged together the two forums like this particular user has suggested. It would probably help Asty out to be honest and...yeah. I think it's personally a great idea, it would make things more organized and make it so Asty's got everything she's gotta deal with all in one place. o_o;

I know you all wanna keep it separate but I also think that people who like Other Writing will find a combined section to be more inviting and not so...displaced? I mean the Lounge in Other Writing is dead but if you had one lounge for both groups, it would potentially be more active.

It's done wonders for Other Roleplay and I think it could do wonders for Other Writing. I'm all for it.

Haz
September 25th, 2009, 04:45 PM
It's done wonders for Other Roleplay and I think it could do wonders for Other Writing. I'm all for it.

That was another thing I forgot to mention in the first post.

JX Valentine
September 25th, 2009, 05:02 PM
If this is at all redundant and incoherent, sorry about this, folks.

1. Creative Discussions is not for Pokemon related things, other than hacks, which are an exception. That's Other Writings place, not Pokemon.
There's two sections on PC, pokemon, and non-pokemon.
Pokemon stuff stays together, non-pokemon stuff stays together. They don't mix.

2. Pokemon stuff stays together, non-pokemon stuff stays together. They don't mix.

You know, they recently merged the Pokémon RPG forum with the non-Pokémon RPG forum to create the Roleplay Corner, so it's actually rather plausible to do the same with the fiction sections, especially considering the fact that Other Writing isn't as active and doesn't gain as much attention in terms of reviewers as the PFF&P, even with Poetry considered to be part of the Other Writing package. Moreover, a lot of the general writing guides and rules are located and updated in PFF&P's Writer's Lounge, not Other Writing (OW's being sparse and redundant), and transferring them over to OW would just be fairly redundant (aside from the fact that it'd probably crowd out the other threads with massive amounts of stickies, given that there's no Writer's Lounge in OW).

I guess what I'm trying to say is the following:

1. It's possible to merge both sections together if some organization happened.

2. Doing so would benefit OW because it'd forcibly pool the writer/reviewer base of both sections by having the kids over in PFF&P actually take notice of the kinds of content that's currently in OW once in awhile. (Because I'm pretty sure a lot of the kids over there now aren't really paying attention to that forum, and that's where most of the writers and reviewers who are actually active on this board seem to be. Excluding roleplayers, of course.)

3. Keeping them separate would require an update of the current threads and guides that are in OW (some of which are ridiculously sparse compared to the ones in the PFF&P), but this would also mean disorganization due to having nowhere to actually put said updated threads -- not to mention redundancy due to the fact that it's basically the same thread in a different forum, given that threads in PFF&P's Writer's Lounge (and stickies, for that matter) can just be applied to both forums thanks to the fact that about half of them cover general content. (For example, the reviewer's guide. The grammar guide. The actual rules.)

4. Didn't the Roleplay Corner get formed due to the "one of them is too inactive, and it's basically the same thing in different sections" logic? I mean, writing is writing, no matter which way you look at it, and if Other Writing's standards are down, then it's just a matter of pooling the reviewer base and getting reviewers to give constructive criticism until it goes up. Not to mention there's really no need to just have one forum for all fics. In fact, if we go by the Roleplay Corner's model, I'd imagine the best way to be set up would be like this:

Main Forum (currently Writer's Lounge, where all of the rules, guides, et cetera are currently located and where the currently active Fanfiction Lounge is -- the latter of which actually actively invites writers to form a community, thus making people feel included and actually welcome to post in either forum)
- Pokémon Fanfiction & Poetry (as-is)
- Other Writing & Poetry *

* Of course, Poetry is also more active than Other Writing itself, from what I've gathered. It's possible to create a third subforum called Other Poetry, but it depends on what the higher ups would think would be more organized.

By doing this, we first off eliminate redundancy in OW and PFF&P by making the contents of Writer's Lounge accessible and clear as general guides that could also apply to original fiction or fiction in other fandoms. Not only that, but, as Mika said, we offer the more active Fanfiction Lounge, rather than a redundant thread that barely anyone touches nowadays. (Last post in OW's FFL, after all, was a month ago, nearly to the day.) At the same time, we keep some semblance of organization in general by separating original fiction and fanfiction from other fandoms from Pokémon fanfiction. Both sections would, of course, be clearly marked and defined, so it's not like we'd be losing any readerbase who only want to read Pokémon fanfics (as Abnegation mentioned).

tl;dr: As an active fic goer, I think it's a good idea, and Asty agreed before it was cool (http://www.pokecommunity.com/converse.php?u=25615&u2=3586&page=3) (in the second VM down, first line).

*walks away, whistling before Astinus comes back to find that her pet monkey just dragged her into something*

(Of course, if staff wants to reject the idea, that's fine with me, too. I'm just saying it's plausible, it would most likely help in terms of activity and organization, and I support it.)

Swift!
September 26th, 2009, 08:47 AM
I think this is a great idea. The Roleplay Corner is going fine since the two forums were combined. So, there's no reason why the two writing forums won't also work well together.

Haz
September 26th, 2009, 12:29 PM
I'm just waiting for a mods opinion on this.

JX Valentine
September 26th, 2009, 12:50 PM
I'm just waiting for a mods opinion on this.

Would Astinus's count here, considering we were talking about this via VM at the beginning of the month (as I've mentioned in my earlier post)? To quote from it for those of you who tl;dr'd the link:

I actually would be rather glad that would happen. I mean, OW isn't active enough now to warrant having it's own section with a sub-forum. All the poetry would go into it's own sub-forum. OW would just become a sub-forum, and finally it would have it's own Writer's Lounge so those who don't venture into PFF&P aren't left to flounder because they have no place to ask their questions about their stories.

... I'm not sure how to go about making this happen. :(

So... yeah. On top of the fact that it'd probably be practical and logical...

Jak
September 26th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Well, I was going to say that mixing Pokemon and non-Pokemon writing together would be a mess, but since Valentine told us what Asty said, I guess momma does know best.

Haz
September 26th, 2009, 12:59 PM
OH okay then, that's great then :)

Feign
September 26th, 2009, 01:02 PM
I'd assume poking one of the admins would make it happen XD (to answer Asti's question).

I think conversely, it may encourage regular Pokemon fanfic writers to broaden out.

Mika
September 26th, 2009, 01:06 PM
Well, I was going to say that mixing Pokemon and non-Pokemon writing together would be a mess, but since Valentine told us what Asty said, I guess momma does know best.

It seems like a big mess but at the same time, it'd be worth the initial clutter.

Everything would be in one little spot for Asty to control.

Link
September 26th, 2009, 02:02 PM
I will again just echo what I said in regards not agreeing on it. But, I will offer up my own contradiction.
Other Writing & Poetry is one of my favoured sections so forgive my prior post as I may have seemed somewhat biast. So, on that note I will now contradict it in saying, I do agree with the suggestion, to an extent.
If we were to merge the sections together i still feel it could be a little untidy. So I'm just going to ask opinions on how it might be layed out?

Okay, so, in Other Writing we have these Forums & sub forums:
Forums:
Other Writing
Sub-Forums
Poetry

And in Pokemon FF & Poetry we have:
Forums
Pokemon FF & Poetry
Sub-forums
Writers Lounge
Revision Bin
Fanfiction Archive

Okay, my proposed new merged section (if it were to go through) would be.

Forum
Writing Section (Or whatever the new name will be)
Sub-forums
Pokemon Poetry & Other Poetry (with prefixes defining Pokemon & Other possibly?)
Writers Lounge (Being a general lax lounge where all genres of writing can be discussed, which I feel would have been nice in OW)
And again keep
Fanfiction Archive.

Now, you might say but where is the Revision Bin? I just feel (and this is a personal opinion, don't hold me on it) that it is not dearly needed. If someones work does not meet the requirements to go into the main writing section or is a WIP, then it can either be posted within the Writers Lounge for quick evaluation or to see what needs to be added. The section is there for your perusal, you'll see that it is probably the most dead of all the writing sections, so maybe it could either be handled in the Writers lounge OR there could be a sticky where there could be quick evaluations or just basically a Revision Bin sticky thread.

Now, I'm not saying this SHOULD MOST DEFINATELY be the way it would, but it was just something for you to skim through and agree, disagree and improve on.

Something like this would be neat however, and the lesser sub-forums the better possibly, just to make things easier on Astinus. There is a lot to manage between the two sections as it is and Asty is busy too, so keeping things nicely organised would be better for a lot of reasons and was just my main concern to begin with.
As for being better with activity, I agree and disagree, I think it might be good to pull all genres closer but then again, Other & Pokemon don't always mix extremely well.
I do think though, it could go well, and we could have a very active section on our hands. A lot to manage if it isn't layed out as structured as possible though I guess.

Jak
September 26th, 2009, 02:04 PM
Gavin's right. The Bin is never used anyway, and when people do post there, the thread is typically closed because the Bin is only for fics that need revision, and if you want to revise something, you can just edit the post the story/poem was in.

JX Valentine
September 26th, 2009, 08:06 PM
Now, you might say but where is the Revision Bin?

If I may speak for Astinus (because we speak a lot, so I know her stance on it), she actually always wanted to get rid of it anyway. There's been handfuls of poor kids who think it's a forum where new stories go or who think so lowly of themselves they believe it belongs in a place whose main purpose is to rip apart fics. It's basically singling out bad writers, so it would actually, if used, intimidate the crap out of kids who want to post their stuff but are terrified that they'll be moved to a forum whose sole purpose is to tell them they're terrible and need to improve so much their thread can't coexist with "quality" work. But even at its inception (i.e., during the time Astinus's predecessor, who proposed the forum, was the main mod of the area), as Silver mentioned, it was never really used that often. Hilariously, nowadays, if you post in there, you actually get a mod's word that says that forum is off-limits to everyone, according to the almighty Rules o' the Forum (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=3907927&postcount=4). So, yeah, it serves absolutely no purpose right now.

Besides, the point of both writing forums themselves is to get feedback (as in, you post your story with the expectation of getting tips on how to improve or otherwise finding out how you're coming along in your development), so it's actually redundant any way you look at it.

In other words, I really don't think there's any need whatsoever for anything that serves as the Revision Bin because that's what you do by posting a story in the main forum anyway. Writer's Lounge is for writing discussion, really, and single threads for analyzing entire chapters would get a bit messy. It's best to just post your story in whatever writing forum it belongs to (Poetry, PFF&P, or Other Writing) and get feedback through reviews. That's what happens now anyway.

Mika
September 26th, 2009, 08:17 PM
Something like this would be neat however, and the lesser sub-forums the better possibly, just to make things easier on Astinus. There is a lot to manage between the two sections as it is and Asty is busy too, so keeping things nicely organised would be better for a lot of reasons and was just my main concern to begin with.

As for being better with activity, I agree and disagree, I think it might be good to pull all genres closer but then again, Other & Pokemon don't always mix extremely well.
I do think though, it could go well, and we could have a very active section on our hands. A lot to manage if it isn't layed out as structured as possible though I guess.

XD; Gav aside from how active Other Poetry is, I don't see this plethora of activity in Other Writing you speak of.. It looks almost identical to Other Roleplay. I don't see how it's a ton of work [compared to PFF which is overflowing with activity] for Asty. xD; I think it'd be more of an annoyance to have to trot over and scan that entire other area instead of just going to a sub forum. As far as the idea of mixing and not mixing genres, again, it saved Other Roleplay which was very near extinction due to lack of life. oO; And I may be wrong but I know Alter very well and I don't think it's given him all this extra work you think it's going to give Asty. I know he complained about missing threads for a day or two but now that it's sorted out it's much more pc-user-friendly. If anything it's unified the roleplayers of PC; we're a big happy family now as opposed to how we were separated before. XD; I don't think that Pokemon and Other will really be that big of a difference. At the end of the day, all writers on pc are writers. What you chose to write about sets you apart but we all have beginnings, middles and supposed ends. ^^;

JX Valentine
September 26th, 2009, 08:26 PM
I think it'd be more of an annoyance to have to trot over and scan that instead of just going to a sub forum.

*nods* Not to mention it'd just make sense if you have both writing forums as subforums of a general writing discussion place (namely, the Writer's Lounge). That way, not only would things like the Fanfiction Lounge and essential tools and guides for writers be up front and extremely easily accessible, but you'd also dodge the implications that you're favoring one community over another. That is, making PFF&P a subforum of Other Writing, in a sense, sort of puts Pokémon fanfiction on the backburner compared to original fiction and fanfiction in other fandoms, which misses the point of these forums.

Mika's right, by the way. In the end, writers are writers, and it's not like the PFF&P are a bunch of Seviper while OW's a bunch of Zangoose. We could get along well, and part of the point of the merger would be so that we would cross over into each other's sections and read works beyond that divider so we can get more activity in both areas.

Not to mention I don't see how we don't exactly mix well. It's not entirely unheard of to have PFF&Pers journey into OW. We (and feel free to contradict me on this one, kids) just don't that often because we can't be arsed to scroll down when OW's Fanfiction Lounge and general community isn't as active as the PFF&P's. I'm not entirely sure why OW people don't come up to our neck of the woods, however.

Link
September 27th, 2009, 01:55 AM
If I may speak for Astinus (because we speak a lot, so I know her stance on it), she actually always wanted to get rid of it anyway. There's been handfuls of poor kids who think it's a forum where new stories go or who think so lowly of themselves they believe it belongs in a place whose main purpose is to rip apart fics. It's basically singling out bad writers, so it would actually, if used, intimidate the crap out of kids who want to post their stuff but are terrified that they'll be moved to a forum whose sole purpose is to tell them they're terrible and need to improve so much their thread can't coexist with "quality" work. But even at its inception (i.e., during the time Astinus's predecessor, who proposed the forum, was the main mod of the area), as Silver mentioned, it was never really used that often. Hilariously, nowadays, if you post in there, you actually get a mod's word that says that forum is off-limits to everyone, according to the almighty Rules o' the Forum (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=3907927&postcount=4). So, yeah, it serves absolutely no purpose right now.

Besides, the point of both writing forums themselves is to get feedback (as in, you post your story with the expectation of getting tips on how to improve or otherwise finding out how you're coming along in your development), so it's actually redundant any way you look at it.

In other words, I really don't think there's any need whatsoever for anything that serves as the Revision Bin because that's what you do by posting a story in the main forum anyway. Writer's Lounge is for writing discussion, really, and single threads for analyzing entire chapters would get a bit messy. It's best to just post your story in whatever writing forum it belongs to (Poetry, PFF&P, or Other Writing) and get feedback through reviews. That's what happens now anyway.

I can see where the original idea may have come from and it may have been deemed to be good but, I do think there is almost a general consenus in the thoughts of getting rid of it, as it does seem to be redundant. There is also the fact as stated in the rules that only moderators and reviewers, or something like that may post there, which possibly automatically brings down level of activity.
Though I do feel it would be nice to have something like the revision bin but, in saying that, doesn't mean that it is going to be an extremely acive section/thread. From what I've seen most people just like to get their first chapter up or what ever the case may be, and if they struggle with any part of their chapter whilst writing it, they could always discuss in the writers lounge.
So basically to echo what both you and Asty have suggested, the Revision Bin doesn't seem to be desired if the sections to be merged (if at all).

XD; Gav aside from how active Other Poetry is, I don't see this plethora of activity in Other Writing you speak of.. It looks almost identical to Other Roleplay. I don't see how it's a ton of work [compared to PFF which is overflowing with activity] for Asty. xD; I think it'd be more of an annoyance to have to trot over and scan that entire other area instead of just going to a sub forum. As far as the idea of mixing and not mixing genres, again, it saved Other Roleplay which was very near extinction due to lack of life. oO; And I may be wrong but I know Alter very well and I don't think it's given him all this extra work you think it's going to give Asty. I know he complained about missing threads for a day or two but now that it's sorted out it's much more pc-user-friendly. If anything it's unified the roleplayers of PC; we're a big happy family now as opposed to how we were separated before. XD; I don't think that Pokemon and Other will really be that big of a difference. At the end of the day, all writers on pc are writers. What you chose to write about sets you apart but we all have beginnings, middles and supposed ends. ^^;

Oh no, I know there is a lack of activity within Other Writing, and I was just trying to think of how it would be organised within a new section. I did say to agree, disagree and improve on what my ideas were, but Iknow whata you are trying to say. All I will say though is, that we might not have the exact same results as we had when Other Roleplay and Pokemon roleplay got merged, but hopefully if they were to be put into one section then it would be a lot neater and active like it is for roleplay. As you say, all writers on PC are writers, we share a common interest, so there isn't really a point in seperating us all. If the sections were to be merged, in a user friendly way (like roleplay was) then it would be better for activity, the general outlook of writing/writers, better for layout as well as the fact it would bring all the writers together, rather than being seperated between two sections.
So I do agree, I just hope it is what is best for all the forums and that we'll have a nicely layed out section. I offered a rough, proposed, layout which at the same time might not be the way it will turn out at all!

JX Valentine
September 27th, 2009, 09:19 AM
I can see where the original idea may have come from and it may have been deemed to be good but, I do think there is almost a general consenus in the thoughts of getting rid of it, as it does seem to be redundant.

I know. That was called "an agreement by way of saying, 'Look! The mod doesn't want it either!'" Anything else after that was an attempt to explain what the bin is and why she doesn't want it. It's also a thinly veiled rant about how it was inherently a bad idea that potentially made that writing forum seem more elitist.

You also mentioned a thread that should take its place, and that was what I was disagreeing with because attempting to evaluate multiple stories in a single thread would actually be rather messy. It's happened in the PFF&P's Fanfiction Lounge before, much to the lulz of the regulars.

There is also the fact as stated in the rules that only moderators and reviewers, or something like that may post there,

Yeah, but what's hilarious is no one pays attention to that sticky anyway, so I'm just going off what the mod comes along and does if you happen to be one of those lovely little newbies who don't read anything with that lovely little prefix. For whatever reason, the "don't post there because Astinus will kill you" rule is unwritten but generally acknowledged.

Oh no, I know there is a lack of activity within Other Writing, and I was just trying to think of how it would be organised within a new section.

*motions to the model she proposed in her earlier post* Well, we could go with that, considering that's pretty much the same way the RC is set up.

All I will say though is, that we might not have the exact same results as we had when Other Roleplay and Pokemon roleplay got merged,

True, there is the possibility this would just end up with organized forums, one of which is still ignored by the majority of the active writers here, but it should at least be an interesting experiment. Best case scenario is, though, that forcing the groups of regulars (PFF's and OW's) will result in one crossing over to the other section and vice versa to form one, big, happy family. Worst case scenario is OW still gets ignored, and yours truly Asty ends up wanting to take a baseball bat to kids who are going, "lol how i mine 4 original fic?"