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Melash
November 6th, 2009, 08:56 AM
I actually have several questions concerning the 3rd Generation (Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald) and I would like to see if anyone here could provide me with the answer.
1. Where exactly is the Hoenn region in relation to the Johto region? Basically in which general direction....
2. When did R/S/E take place in relation to any of the other games?

SCV058
November 6th, 2009, 09:11 AM
Hoenn is placed southwest of the region of Johto.
As for time slot- I would say possibly after the events in the Johto Region (because of more pokes and thats how it was in the anime)

Amore
November 6th, 2009, 09:56 AM
I would agree with both of the above.

However, i think it may be that they're all set in the same time, as the only one that actually mentions time compared to previous games is G/S/C/HG/SS, which are 3 years after R/B/Y/FR/LG

GlitchCity
November 6th, 2009, 01:44 PM
well hoenn is located southwest of japan (turn the japan map sideways and you can see it)

and im not completely sure about the timeline cause im going by the manga, it takes like a few years after the johto arc and then heads to FRLF
(please correct me if im worng, some dude blew chunks of steam on youtube cause he wasnt sure about the timeline either)

Amachi
November 6th, 2009, 04:56 PM
and im not completely sure about the timeline cause im going by the manga, it takes like a few years after the johto arc and then heads to FRLF
(please correct me if im worng, some dude blew chunks of steam on youtube cause he wasnt sure about the timeline either)
I'd say you're pretty much correct about the timeline, and the strongest indicator of that would be
Ruby being in possession of Celebi.

However, I suppose it could work both ways.

Hatenko
November 6th, 2009, 04:59 PM
I thought that Kanto games and Hoenn games took place at the same time, while Johto and Sinnoh five years later...

Kirbychu
November 6th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I believe that RGBY/FRLG, and RSE (And supposedly Colosseum) take place three years before GSC/HGSS and DPPt. With XD taking place five years after Colosseum, that would make XD take place two years after gens 2 and 4.

Proof:

RGBY/FRLG and RSE do not require a time machine to trade with each other.

GSC/HGSS and DPPt take place the same time because of the Red Gyarados report at the start of D/P/Pt (which must've happened before Gold/Crystal/Kotone captures/defeats the Gyarados), references to Elm's recent report on eggs, etc. It's important to note that RGBY/FRLG and RSE had next to no Johto references.

Melash
November 7th, 2009, 08:47 PM
I believe that gens 1, and 3 (And supposedly Colosseum) take place three years before gens 2 and 4. With XD taking place five years after Colosseum, that would make XD take place two years after gens 2 and 4.

Proof:

Gens 1 and 3 do not require a time machine to trade with each other.

Gen 2 and 4 take place the same time because of the Red Gyarados report at the start of D/P/Pt (which must've happened before Gold/Crystal/Kotone captures/defeats the Gyarados), references to Elm's recent report on eggs, etc. It's important to note that gens 1 and 3 had next to no Johto references.
That's actually quite interesting, good insight. Thanks for your answer.

Amachi
November 7th, 2009, 10:28 PM
I believe that gens 1, and 3 (And supposedly Colosseum) take place three years before gens 2 and 4. With XD taking place five years after Colosseum, that would make XD take place two years after gens 2 and 4.

Proof:

Gens 1 and 3 do not require a time machine to trade with each other.
That is an incorrect statement. Generations 1 and 3 can't trade with each other.

FRLG is different to RBGY. If we look at the PokeSpecial manga, FRLG takes place several years after RBGY, hence the updated outfits, new areas and storyline.

So RS may take place at the same time as FRLG (Emerald actually occurs after FRLG), but it doesn't take place at the same time as RBGY.

Gen 2 and 4 take place the same time because of the Red Gyarados report at the start of D/P/Pt (which must've happened before Gold/Crystal/Kotone captures/defeats the Gyarados), references to Elm's recent report on eggs, etc. It's important to note that gens 1 and 3 had next to no Johto references.
Even though there are numerous references to Johto in Sinnoh, I don't think GSC occurred at the same time as DPPt. Instead, I believe the references we see are in fact made towards HGSS.

tintin_92
November 8th, 2009, 02:39 AM
That is an incorrect statement. Generations 1 and 3 can't trade with each other.

FRLG is different to RBGY. If we look at the PokeSpecial manga, FRLG takes place several years after RBGY, hence the updated outfits, new areas and storyline.

So RS may take place at the same time as FRLG (Emerald actually occurs after FRLG), but it doesn't take place at the same time as RBGY.


Even though there are numerous references to Johto in Sinnoh, I don't think GSC occurred at the same time as DPPt. Instead, I believe the references we see are in fact made towards HGSS.

In my opinion, we can't really compare the Manga with the games. I mean, in the games, FRLG are remakes of the games, RBGY, while in the manga, they are completely different stories in the same region. The remade games have the same story, with just differences in locations and version compatibility. So, technically, D/P/Pt DID occur at the same time as GSC, which is the SAME as HGSS. In any case, Emerald doesn't even come in over here as a separate timeline to RS, since only the story is edited, that too with minor changes. Thus, the Manga isn't really proof of the timeline, since in the manga, Emerald saga is after the FRLG saga. Also, the only components of the games that are similar to the Manga are the names of the Pokedex Holders, and the fact that legendaries can be caught. While the statement, that gen 1 and 3 are compatible is false, what that dude was trying to convey, was that pokemon games within a particular generation are in the same timeline. Also, later generation games require special methods to interact with the previous generations (e.g. Time Capsule, Pal Park).

Horizon
November 8th, 2009, 02:52 AM
Basically, Generations I and III take place at the same time, and Gens II and IV take place at the same time. Which is why the formers' main game was remade in the latter.

And you CANNOT compare the manga and the games, storyline-wise. They are completely seperate media, and thus completely seperate canon. Which is why Red in the end of GSC/HGSS is NOT the same Red from the manga.

Meepman
November 8th, 2009, 03:15 AM
While all these theories are very logical, there's one detail that sort of confuses me, that is Jasmine appears in DPPt and Cynthia appears in HGSS so unless they invented a way to clone people how can they possibly be at the same time?

Kirbychu
November 8th, 2009, 02:33 PM
And you CANNOT compare the manga and the games, storyline-wise. They are completely seperate media, and thus completely seperate canon. Which is why Red in the end of GSC/HGSS is NOT the same Red from the manga.
Agreed, this is not the manga forum, I'm posting info recieved from the games. Also, I'm considering Kanto based games as gen 1, and Johto based ones as gen 2 here.

Anyways, I am having second thoughts about RGBY/FRLG and RSE occurring at the same time. There's this nice little braille message in FRLG's Dotted Hole. Here's what it says...

"Let the two glittering stones, one in red, one in blue, connect the past. Two friends sharing power open a window to a new world that glows. The next world waits for you."

Let's see... The two glittering stones are the Ruby and Sapphire, obviously. "The past" could be referring to RBGY/FRLG, or RSE (Maybe even Colosseum and XD.). It could even refer to them both being "the past", the past being before GSC/HGSS.

"Two friends sharing power" is simple. It's referring to trading. The part about opening a window to a new world that glows, and the next world that awaits you may be referring to GSC/HGSS or DPPt, but I'm not sure.

Amore
November 8th, 2009, 02:50 PM
While all these theories are very logical, there's one detail that sort of confuses me, that is Jasmine appears in DPPt and Cynthia appears in HGSS so unless they invented a way to clone people how can they possibly be at the same time?

Cynthia flew on Garchomp. And Jasmine left after you beat her in Hg/Ss?(you can't rematch instantly).

Also, noone knows where Shinto ruins are.Apparently they're north.But So's Sinnoh (it's mentioned in the anime). So Shinto Ruins could be connected to the bottom of Sinnoh, as Sinnoh's the only place on Serebii's pokeEarth that's definitely out of place.

And while Time Capsule (Whatever that is) implies your game is taking place after another, Pal Park can just mean you were only pretending to be a n00b, or doing what Ash does, and now you're getting your pokemon from where you left them

Kirbychu
November 8th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Also, noone knows where Shinto ruins are.Apparently they're north.But So's Sinnoh (it's mentioned in the anime). So Shinto Ruins could be connected to the bottom of Sinnoh, as Sinnoh's the only place on Serebii's pokeEarth that's definitely out of place.

And while Time Capsule (Whatever that is) implies your game is taking place after
Actually, fans have discovered that each region is based off a different area in Japan. It's not official, but if it is true, the pokemon world looks like this...
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/89/Locations.PNG

I guess they could be in Sinnoh, but that seems a bit too far north.

Amachi
November 8th, 2009, 09:23 PM
First off, you have to understand something about the manga. Satoshi Tajiri once stated that the Pocket Monsters Special series is closest to what he imagined the Pokémon world to be: "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey." (from Wikipedia).

The two can be compared, because the PokeSpecial manga is closest to what the creator of the series envisioned the Pokémon universe to be like.

I mean, in the games, FRLG are remakes of the games, RBGY, while in the manga, they are completely different stories in the same region. The remade games have the same story, with just differences in locations and version compatibility. So, technically, D/P/Pt DID occur at the same time as GSC, which is the SAME as HGSS. In any case, Emerald doesn't even come in over here as a separate timeline to RS, since only the story is edited, that too with minor changes. Thus, the Manga isn't really proof of the timeline, since in the manga, Emerald saga is after the FRLG saga.
FRLG is more than just a remake. Included in those games were the Sevii islands, which is in fact the location of an arc in PokeSpecial which takes place after Ruby/Sapphire and before Emerald, and is in fact linked to both.
Emerald was released after FRLG, you know that right?
Also, the only components of the games that are similar to the Manga are the names of the Pokedex Holders, and the fact that legendaries can be caught.
What? There's heaps more similarities. Have you even played the games and/or read the manga (all of it)? Even the outfits are the same.
what that dude was trying to convey, was that pokemon games within a particular generation are in the same timeline.
That's what I said, thus each generation is a separate timeline, regardless of remakes.
Also, later generation games require special methods to interact with the previous generations (e.g. Time Capsule, Pal Park).
Those game play mechanics have nothing to do with anything, at least for the most part. You already are told that RBGY happened three years before GSC in the game, so the Time Capsule doesn't exist to prove that, it simply exists to allow you to trade with older games. Pal Park too is just another way to get your Pokemon.
Basically, Generations I and III take place at the same time, and Gens II and IV take place at the same time. Which is why the formers' main game was remade in the latter.

And you CANNOT compare the manga and the games, storyline-wise. They are completely seperate media, and thus completely seperate canon. Which is why Red in the end of GSC/HGSS is NOT the same Red from the manga.
No, they don't. While the remakes are similar to their predecessors, they are different, and there is evidence that can be interpreted to show that they belong to different timelines.

Take the Spiked/Notched-Ear Pichu event in HGSS. The Pichu that you receive comes from the past. Who's Pichu was it? Well if we look at the manga then we can assume that it belonged to Gold. The main male character in HGSS could be a different character instead of being Gold in a new outfit.

Yes, I know in the manga we don't see Gold and Pichu going different ways, but the games and manga aren't exactly the same, and so assumptions have to be made.

I can do whatever I want, you don't own me :P. They are not completely separate, as the two forms of media loosely share the same story. Yes, they may not be the same Red, but Red did go to Mt Silver in the manga (and Gold did follow him).

Perhaps I'm being to strict on something so ambiguous, so I suppose you can consider the previous games as smaller parts of the remakes. But by themselves, RBGY and GSC can't really be considered as part of the same timeline as their remakes in the third and fourth generations, respectively.
Agreed, this is not the manga forum, I'm posting info recieved from the games. Also, I'm considering Kanto based games as gen 1, and Johto based ones as gen 2 here.
But Kanto is in gen 1 and 3, and Johto in 2 and 4. If you mix everything up, everything will just get confusing. See below.
Anyways, I am having second thoughts about Gens 1 and 3 occurring at the same time. There's this nice little braille message in FRLG's Dotted Hole. Here's what it says...



Let's see... The two glittering stones are the Ruby and Sapphire, obviously. "The past" could be referring to FRLG, or RSE (Maybe even Colosseum and XD.). It could even refer to them both being "the past", the past being before gen 2.

"Two friends sharing power" is simple. It's referring to trading. The part about opening a window to a new world that glows, and the next world that awaits you may be referring to gen 2 or 4, but I'm not sure.
The events in Hoenn occurred slightly before the Sevii island events in FRLG. Giovanni picked up the glittering stones (which are actually parts of the shattered Red and Blue orbs of RS, and used them for his own purposes.

I don't see why you all are so insistent on separating the manga from the games. The PokeSpecial manga is the best thing about Pokemon, and furthermore, it goes into greater detail than the games, allowing us to get a better understanding of the game events.

I wonder how much of this made sense.

Kirbychu
November 9th, 2009, 07:13 PM
First off, you have to understand something about the manga. Satoshi Tajiri once stated that the Pocket Monsters Special series is closest to what he imagined the Pokémon world to be: "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey." (from Wikipedia).

The two can be compared, because the PokeSpecial manga is closest to what the creator of the series envisioned the Pokémon universe to be like.
That quote hardly means anything. It doesn't deny the fact that the games and manga are both different canon. I personally think that the manga has a completely different timeline. PokeSpecial depicts RGB, Yellow, and FRLG as completely different stories, while the games have them being all the same, with a few minor details. Not to mention that the manga has key characters never seen before in the games, portrays people like the E4 evil, and only a few of the main protagonists even challenge gyms.

FRLG is more than just a remake. Included in those games were the Sevii islands, which is in fact the location of an arc in PokeSpecial which takes place after Ruby/Sapphire and before Emerald, and is in fact linked to both.
Emerald was released after FRLG, you know that right? So you're saying FRLG is a different story than RGBY?

That's what I said, thus each generation is a separate timeline, regardless of remakes.If that's what you believe, then okay. But I personally think this theory is severely flawed. Doesn't the idea of the same exact events happening in Kanto multiple times sound a little strange? Wouldn't their be a mention of Team Rocket attacking earlier? Another important thing to note is all the changes to Kanto in GSC/HGSS. Did the caves "uncollapse" and did Cinnabar Island "unerupt" in FRLG?

No, they don't. While the remakes are similar to their predecessors, they are different, and there is evidence that can be interpreted to show that they belong to different timelines.See above.

I can do whatever I want, you don't own me :P. They are not completely separate, as the two forms of media loosely share the same story. Yes, they may not be the same Red, but Red did go to Mt Silver in the manga (and Gold did follow him).I seriously doubt that they share the same timeline. Remakes are just that; remakes.

FRLG is not a different story than RGBY. FRLG was created as a result of the first Gen 3 games lacking backward compatibility with Generations 1 and 2. There needed to be a way to get the Kanto pokemon.

The Sevii Islands? Just ways to get some Johto Pokemon, and some much needed extra content for the games. Giving FRLG the same replay value as RGBY would just be stupid.

Perhaps I'm being to strict on something so ambiguous, so I suppose you can consider the previous games as smaller parts of the remakes. But by themselves, RBGY and GSC can't really be considered as part of the same timeline as their remakes in the third and fourth generations, respectively.I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.

But Kanto is in gen 1 and 3, and Johto in 2 and 4. If you mix everything up, everything will just get confusing. See below.Okay then, my bad. I'll be sure to edit my previous posts.

The events in Hoenn occurred slightly before the Sevii island events in FRLG. Giovanni picked up the glittering stones (which are actually parts of the shattered Red and Blue orbs of RS, and used them for his own purposes.Wait, where does it say that in the games? I don't remember them being shattered. Brendan/May (Maxie and Archie in Emerald) returned them to Mt. Pyre, remember?

I don't see why you all are so insistent on separating the manga from the games. The PokeSpecial manga is the best thing about Pokemon, and furthermore, it goes into greater detail than the games, allowing us to get a better understanding of the game events.We seperate them for the same reason we seperate the anime from the games; they're different canon. This question was aimed to the games, not the manga or anime. The manga just takes ideas, and exoands on them. If GF ever says that PokeSpecial is canon for the games, I'll have different thoughts.

Naruto Uzumaki
November 16th, 2009, 03:27 PM
1. Where exactly is the Hoenn region in relation to the Johto region? Basically in which general direction....
Its right next to it.

2. When did R/S/E take place in relation to any of the other games?
It took during the same time I would think

Arcta
November 17th, 2009, 11:41 AM
b.u.m.p just here to help people bump :)

DarkAlucard
November 17th, 2009, 06:17 PM
it´s simple and if you look in official sites (tough is not specifically), they say that game in kanto (whatever R/B/G---RF/LG we play) and R/S/E are suposed to ocurr at the same time, and tha jotho adventures and Sinnoh are in the same time, three years before the first ones.

And yes, i agree manga is a very fun activity but luckily for me, totally diferent to the game, because can you imagine play Red version and have to chose a bulbasaur has a started only because Red in the manga has a bulbasaur??? way to boring...

http://img.gpxplus.net/28/47/ZGp2ZGxmAt/image.png (http://gpxplus.net/ZGp2ZGxmAt) http://img.gpxplus.net/28/108/ZGp3AmN1ZN/image.png (http://gpxplus.net/ZGp3AmN1ZN) http://img.gpxplus.net/28/121/ZGp4ZQZmZD/image.png (http://gpxplus.net/ZGp4ZQZmZD) http://img.gpxplus.net/28/121/ZGp4ZQZ2Zt/image.png (http://gpxplus.net/ZGp4ZQZ2Zt) http://img.gpxplus.net/28/121/ZGp4ZQZ5ZD/image.png (http://gpxplus.net/ZGp4ZQZ5ZD) http://img.gpxplus.net/28/121/ZGp4ZQZ5Zj/image.png (http://gpxplus.net/ZGp4ZQZ5Zj)

Rubber Ducky
November 21st, 2009, 10:29 PM
The arcs in the manga take place one after another because, well, it's a manga. And they have a separate canon from the games, so you can't just say "it happened in the manga" as evidence.

Gold/Kotone and Lucas/Dawn have corresponding adventures because the Red Gyarados is in the Lake of Rage at the start of DPPT.

Similarly, Red and Brendan/May correspond with each other because 1. it was stated by Nintendo (I think) and 2. unlike GSC and RBY, where you need a Time Machine to trade between the two heroes, you only need a long-distance trading machine to trade with R/S/E.

So it goes FRLG + RSE -> HGSS + DPPT

Melash
November 22nd, 2009, 08:33 AM
....So it goes FRLG + RSE -> HGSS + DPPT
I believe that's finally the consensus we've finally came to. If you look at all the evidence in the games, that is true. The manga is completely different and unrelated.

Rubber Ducky
November 22nd, 2009, 08:53 AM
Oh, and about Hoenn. It's the tropic region, so it's in the south.

Dominus Temporis
November 25th, 2009, 01:00 PM
I think it's worth pointing out that while Johto and Sinnoh's storylines are roughly within the same timeframe, they're not completely paralleled. If you think about it, Sinnoh would actually start sometime in the middle of Johto's story. Consider:

*The beginning of Platinum features the Red Gyarados report, and soon after mentions it disappeared. So clearly Lucas/Dawn began their quest shortly after the player catches/defeats Red Gyarados in Johto.
*Jasmine's appearance in Sinnoh means it's probably after she gets defeated by the Johto hero. After all, she has nothing better to do.

So while third-gen is probably all occurring at once, Diamond/Pearl/Platinum is chronologically latest, but only by a little bit.

DarkAlucard
November 25th, 2009, 01:12 PM
I think it's worth pointing out that while Johto and Sinnoh's storylines are roughly within the same timeframe, they're not completely paralleled. If you think about it, Sinnoh would actually start sometime in the middle of Johto's story. Consider:

*The beginning of Platinum features the Red Gyarados report, and soon after mentions it disappeared. So clearly Lucas/Dawn began their quest shortly after the player catches/defeats Red Gyarados in Johto.
*Jasmine's appearance in Sinnoh means it's probably after she gets defeated by the Johto hero. After all, she has nothing better to do.

So while third-gen is probably all occurring at once, Diamond/Pearl/Platinum is chronologically latest, but only by a little bit.

yes i agree with you and this have sense, unfortunelly we don´t have a specific time line to check how the events of the diferent games happened but this make them more fun too because we practically can create our world of pokemon and re-invent the history, jeje, well i think...

Lady Gaga
November 25th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Okay. Here is what happens in order of timeline, kay?

1. Hoenn events (R/S/E)
Around a year or so...
2. Kanto events (FR/LG)
3 years later...
3. Johto events (HG/SS)
4. Sinnoh events (D/P/PT)
Same time, though the Johto events are already well on there way (the Red Gyrados event happens when you start your journey, and by the time you hit Sunnyshore the events in Johto are over, and Jasmine has come to the new region).

Verloren
November 27th, 2009, 04:23 AM
From Steven's appearance along with Cynthia in HGSS, it's fairly safe to assume that Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh all take place about at the same time.

Amore
November 28th, 2009, 12:25 PM
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/89/Locations.PNG

If you look between Johto and Hoenn, you can see the Battle Zone!!

And one of the islands just below Hoenn looks like the island for Ever Grande to be on

Rubber Ducky
November 28th, 2009, 04:24 PM
From Steven's appearance along with Cynthia in HGSS, it's fairly safe to assume that Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh all take place about at the same time.

What does Steven's appearance have to do with the time line?

twibslishir
December 1st, 2009, 05:24 PM
I accept with information:GSC/HGSS and DPPt take place the same time because of the Red Gyarados report at the start of D/P/Pt (which must've happened before Gold/Crystal/Kotone captures/defeats the Gyarados), references to Elm's recent report on eggs, etc. It's important to note that RGBY/FRLG and RSE had next to no Johto references.

Kirbychu
December 1st, 2009, 05:28 PM
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/89/Locations.PNG

If you look between Johto and Hoenn, you can see the Battle Zone!!
Although that piece of land looks similar, the Battle Zone is actually the southern tip of Russia's Sakhalin Island.

You can see Sakhalin located above Hokkaido/Sinnoh.
http://www.gonomad.com/destinations/0504/images/map-of-sakhalin.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t302/heisstack/realpokeworld5.jpg

The area was moved up to prevent Sinnoh from having a massive map with unnecessary water.

What does Steven's appearance have to do with the time line?
That's what I don't understand either. :l

cancunphoto
December 7th, 2009, 01:49 PM
What does Steven's appearance have to do with the time line?
This compettion was a month ago and he said no hacks even tho this website is for hacks during competion