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pokefreak2
December 22nd, 2009, 02:12 PM
hey i was wondering which is the hardest rom hacking skill? IMO i think it is overworld spriting
it is so hard well to me it is im not an artist im just intelligent so that fits well with scripting :)

NarutoActor
December 22nd, 2009, 05:06 PM
Asm is definitely the hardest, hands down.

Oh, and you forgot to close the B tag, use [/B]

Chaos Rush
December 22nd, 2009, 05:11 PM
How is overworld spriting the hardest skill? To me, graphics are the easiest thing to hack. The thing I'm worried about is scripting.

colcolstyles
December 22nd, 2009, 05:15 PM
Graphics are pretty easy to change but making them is an entirely different story for the artistically challenged.
What's easiest and hardest varies from person to person. There is no skill that will be the hardest for every single hacker.

chrunch
December 22nd, 2009, 07:28 PM
ASM.
I find that hardest of everything.

RedYoshi
December 22nd, 2009, 08:16 PM
ASM is without a doubt the hardest "skill" for hacking. The rest pretty much depends on the person. I find mapping to be a challenge for me since I just can't get a good looking map. Also I find music hacking to be pretty easy, but others may not think so. So it really just depends on the person. Of course, everything becomes easy with a little practice.

Pokepal17
December 22nd, 2009, 08:17 PM
Depends on the individual skill of each individual. :3 For me it is probably spriting or ASM, whereas for some people it may be scripting or mapping.

Therefore the answer to this question is that there is no specific skill that one may find the hardest.

NiKaNoRoU
December 22nd, 2009, 11:57 PM
Nah, to most people it IS ASM. Same to me. But I did laugh at 'overworld spriting' to be the hardest. I'm a spriter, and I do different kinds of sprites, but out of them all, the overworlds are just bread and butter o.o

Darthatron
December 23rd, 2009, 12:08 AM
Spriting is much harder than script or ASM for me, but not just overworlds. I couldn't draw half decent grass unless I spent an hour or two in photoshop.

EDIT: Also, I'm sure most of you would have trouble researching data, which is a pretty important part of hacking. Try looking through the RAM and ROM for a few hours. >_>

Banjora Marxvile
December 23rd, 2009, 02:32 AM
Either ASM or Scripting, but only because I rushed into scripting a Legendary battle with no prior knowledge... Then I gave up. I will admit though, if you take time with it, it will get easier.

Juan
December 23rd, 2009, 05:38 AM
For me ASM is easy.
Graphics that are difficult (not in inserting, but in drawing)

558122_DG
December 23rd, 2009, 06:17 AM
For me ASM is easy.
Graphics that are difficult (not in inserting, but in drawing)


great wanna help me in my hack?

PS. I think asm is hard, cause all te tus i find are hard to follow, scripting Is really easy. the most easiest would be mapping, cause a kid can do that...

axlefoley
December 23rd, 2009, 06:21 AM
ASM is the hardest but everything else is challenging in it's own way aswell. The main reason being that whilst yes I can do everything else but the sad fact is I may not be able to do it well.

BlitŻ
December 23rd, 2009, 08:45 AM
I really don't see how spriting and such relates to ROM hacking directly and is considered a ROM hacking "skill". Spriting is very widely based, as it is art, but parts of ROM hacking such as scripting, mapping, inserting, etc. only pertains to ROMs. I think saying that spriting is the hardest ROM hacking skill (which it is not xD) is like saying painting a car is the hardest part about driving :/

Larvitar170
December 23rd, 2009, 09:38 AM
I can't say ASM, since I've never tried, though I hear it is the hardest. And it sounds like it would be. For me, I would say scripting. I can never seem to get the scripts to work for me.

pokefreak2
December 23rd, 2009, 12:28 PM
great wanna help me in my hack?

PS. I think asm is hard, cause all te tus i find are hard to follow, scripting Is really easy. the most easiest would be mapping, cause a kid can do that...

Lol im a kid and i cant map for crap :(

Larvitar170
December 23rd, 2009, 01:24 PM
Lol im a kid and i cant map for crap :(
I think it all just comes down to your abilities and what you like the most. Yes, a kid could map, but that doesn't mean a kid could map well. Whereas scripting may seem more advanced, but a kid may be able to come in and out-script everyone.

RainDogg54
December 23rd, 2009, 01:41 PM
Scripting is a lot easier than I thought it would be when I first started. I had 0 coding experience and it only took a couple weeks of learning through trial and error to get it down. I'm still a beginner though. My scripts are usually short and simple :P

I've never tried ASM hacking mainly because I've always heard that it's really hard.

pokefreak2
December 23rd, 2009, 01:51 PM
Scripting is a lot easier than I thought it would be when I first started. I had 0 coding experience and it only took a couple weeks of learning through trial and error to get it down. I'm still a beginner though. My scripts are usually short and simple :P

I've never tried ASM hacking mainly because I've always heard that it's really hard.
yea asm is pretty hard the only reason i cant do it is because i cant find the offset in hex editor O_O i need it so i can get asm to work :(

Juan
December 23rd, 2009, 01:53 PM
I really don't see how spriting and such relates to ROM hacking directly and is considered a ROM hacking "skill". Spriting is very widely based, as it is art, but parts of ROM hacking such as scripting, mapping, inserting, etc. only pertains to ROMs. I think saying that spriting is the hardest ROM hacking skill (which it is not xD) is like saying painting a car is the hardest part about driving :/

I do not agree.

It's like game development.
A group is responsible for the graphics, the other by the sound, and another for the development itself.

Another example is the creation of websites.
Uses PHP, ASP, HTML, and imagens (flash, fireworks, photoshop, etc.).

If you do not draw any tile, will not be able to insert it.
If you managed to insert some, it was because someone designed it.

Why do you think many people ask for help to "Tilers" and "Spriters"?

Well, that's my opinion.

BlitŻ
December 23rd, 2009, 02:06 PM
I do not agree.

It's like game development.
A group is responsible for the graphics, the other by the sound, and another for the development itself.

Another example is the creation of websites.
Uses PHP, ASP, HTML, and imagens (flash, fireworks, photoshop, etc.).

If you do not draw any tile, will not be able to insert it.
If you managed to insert some, it was because someone designed it.

Why do you think many people ask for help to "Tilers" and "Spriters"?

Well, that's my opinion.

I'd have to agree with you on that spriting is used to help make ROM hacks better as a new adventure, but I disagree in that ROMs need new graphics and sprites, and I'm not saying that you mean that. I think that have spriting bieng deemed a ROM hacking skill is unvalid.

pokefreak2
December 23rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
I'd have to agree with you on that spriting is used to help make ROM hacks better as a new adventure, but I disagree in that ROMs need new graphics and sprites, and I'm not saying that you mean that. I think that have spriting bieng deemed a ROM hacking skill is unvalid.yea sprites and graphics make the hack look alot better so it doesnt look old and so 2003/2004

Ninja Caterpie
December 23rd, 2009, 02:25 PM
yea sprites and graphics make the hack look alot better so it doesnt look old and so 2003/2004

That's a very subjective point. I don't believe any real custom tileset is better than what Gamefreak/Nintendo made in the original. The only "new" tiles I can really stand are Fangking Omega's Johto Tileset and the Kyledove-style DP ones, but those are all Nintendo-styled.

Larvitar170
December 23rd, 2009, 02:31 PM
That's a very subjective point. I don't believe any real custom tileset is better than what Gamefreak/Nintendo made in the original. The only "new" tiles I can really stand are Fangking Omega's Johto Tileset and the Kyledove-style DP ones, but those are all Nintendo-styled.
Though I do agree that they are still Nintendo style, I think his main point was that it looked like old-Nintendo. Kyledove and Fangking Omega had updated looks to the ones they made. So, it is still Nintendo, but putting it into today's terms. It seems to me that if you do use custom sprites and tiles, then it would be apart of your hack, so it would be a skill. But if you don't, you most likely wouldn't consider it one. It is the nice gray area skill, it could be argued and proven either way.

lbirrueta
December 24th, 2009, 01:19 AM
as an artist graphics and mapping come natural to me, but the in depth ASM and scripting i don't touch!

Zeta Patchouli
December 24th, 2009, 01:25 AM
ASM and scripting. I just don't get either, and I suck at spriting and inserting, so... Mapping is all I can do for now.

.Seth
December 24th, 2009, 01:29 AM
What the hardest skill is depends on your talents. Since I'm graphically challenged, I'd say graphics would be the hardest part, considered a skill. Otherwise, it's all pretty easy for me, so I really can't say.

giradialkia
December 24th, 2009, 01:39 AM
The hardest part for me is probably ASM. Though I've never tried it, I probably never will. And I don't really care.
Scripting, I don't find too bad. That's probably because there's loads of comprehensive tutorials about it, and you can literally just use one as a guideline as you script. Not too hard at all. I find Mapping and Spriting the easiest, but getting maps to look "right" can be rather difficult sometimes.

Sarcastic Prince
December 24th, 2009, 04:19 AM
Hahahaha! OW Spriting is hard? It's easy! (At least for me, lol.)

Well, I consider ASM as the hardest, but not scripting, I'm going to get the hang of it soon.

Zeffy
December 24th, 2009, 05:37 AM
What is really hard, for me that is, is ASM. I tried it once, but I failed XD

remake
December 24th, 2009, 08:37 AM
I'd say ASM is difficult (as in I want to cut the amount done to an absolute minimum), but knowing how bad I am with pictures, spriting is a close second.

Tropical Sunlight
December 24th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Scripting is the hardest for me, as I haven't really tried ASM out, and I don't plan to.
Every script that I make never work out the way I planned it to. :(

Razer Rage
December 24th, 2009, 09:48 AM
Whatever it is, it isn't mapping. It may be tedious but it isn't hard. I'd have to say ASM scripting would be the "hardest" for me personally. But I would suspect a skilled ASM scripter like HackMew would disagree.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
December 24th, 2009, 10:26 AM
I do not agree.

It's like game development.
A group is responsible for the graphics, the other by the sound, and another for the development itself.

Another example is the creation of websites.
Uses PHP, ASP, HTML, and imagens (flash, fireworks, photoshop, etc.).

If you do not draw any tile, will not be able to insert it.
If you managed to insert some, it was because someone designed it.

Why do you think many people ask for help to "Tilers" and "Spriters"?

Well, that's my opinion.
Well, Here it goes again.
It's a problem of what we call it.
As long as we call it hacking, I'd assume we're talking about hacking.
And there the spriting isn't importent. Spriting is not hacking at all. but neither would I say scripting is.
Sure grapic and scripting is importent if you'd like tó make a game. But that's modding, not hacking. Please start calling it modding, if you want those to be counted in.


yea asm is pretty hard the only reason i cant do it is because i cant find the offset in hex editor O_O i need it so i can get asm to work :(
lol, that's so funny in so many ways. Sorry, but that's like saying. "I'm awesome at riding my bike, except I can't keep the balance or make it drive."

interdpth
December 24th, 2009, 10:57 PM
The hardest aspects of making a hack are
Dialouge.
Story writing.
Map making
Spriting
General GFX.

If you can't do any of that. You have no hope.

ZodiacDaGreat
December 24th, 2009, 11:31 PM
Hm, what's really hard is what we try to get in our hack that is limited by the game's code, that makes things harder for all of us. Merry Christmas everyone :)

DreadWaffle
December 25th, 2009, 12:20 PM
for an actual skill, it would be for me, mapping/asm
but this doesn't really count but for me also is making someone would enjoy playing through for the hours to get through a beta or demo, then play it again after the next release

ShadowForce_G
December 26th, 2009, 06:30 AM
For me ASM is the hardest...
Then, all about graphics (sprite, tiles, titlescreen, etc)...

BlazingShadow
December 27th, 2009, 02:52 AM
For me I think the hardest is Spriting and also maybe a little in Scripting......

RedBaron474
December 28th, 2009, 03:41 PM
Well, Here it goes again.
It's a problem of what we call it.
As long as we call it hacking, I'd assume we're talking about hacking.
And there the spriting isn't importent. Spriting is not hacking at all. but neither would I say scripting is.
Sure grapic and scripting is importent if you'd like tó make a game. But that's modding, not hacking. Please start calling it modding, if you want those to be counted in.


I do not agree whatsoever . . . .
Spriting, Tiling, and Scripting are some of the essentials in making a hack. Take the real Pokemon games themselves (I know these are not hacks, but), Nintendo creates new tilesets, sprites, and scripts for every generation of games (Gen I had it's own tileset and sprites, Gen II had their own, etc.). In my opinion these are some of the most important (but maybe not the hardest) skills.

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
December 30th, 2009, 05:21 AM
I do not agree whatsoever . . . .
Spriting, Tiling, and Scripting are some of the essentials in making a hack. Take the real Pokemon games themselves (I know these are not hacks, but), Nintendo creates new tilesets, sprites, and scripts for every generation of games (Gen I had it's own tileset and sprites, Gen II had their own, etc.). In my opinion these are some of the most important (but maybe not the hardest) skills.

But dear sweety<3

Please, I'm not saying that you don't need new sprites and maps in a new hack. That is not what were discussing right now.
I'm talking about hacking... HACKING IS THE DAMN RESEARCH YOU'RE ALL ARE IGNORING WHEN YOU THINK YOU'RE MAKING A HACK....<3
But my beloved sweety, just because they're importent in a mode, doesn't make spriting hacking....
BTW: <3

Matteron (96)
December 30th, 2009, 06:55 AM
for me it's tile inserting/asm, everything else is simpler.

Banjora Marxvile
December 30th, 2009, 07:17 AM
Spriting shouldn't be classed as hacking, at all. The insertion is classed as hacking, sure, as you are editing the game, but the sprites themselves are artwork, and as you make them BEFORE inserting, are not technically part of hacking, but the implementation of the said sprites into the ROM, and making the game read them is hacking the game. Making the sprite in Paint is art, and not editing the ROM, or hacking it in any way. (But it is hard to sprite)

ASM looks very complicated. I might learn scripting, as that is my fear, but after looking at ASM, I am inspired to move up hacking-wise.

WaterSplash
December 30th, 2009, 07:59 AM
ASM Hacking really isn't hard, it's just so time consuming and tedious that people don't bother with it. However, seeing how most people just copy/paste everything from a tutorial and try and work it in their hacks, I can see why most people would think ASM Hacking is difficult.

The truth is, most people who find ASM hard are those who want to sit down in front of a computer and throw together a generic storyline and try to make a hack in thirty minutes. It's not gonna happen. If you want to have a fun and challenging time while "hacking" a game, try scripting through hex rather than using a scripting program. Many hacks created this way are better than those someone slapped together (in my opinion).

psychicboy
December 30th, 2009, 10:34 AM
Well since ASM "is" the hardest skill in hacking an few people master it let alone use it, I'm going to say my hardest would be in the graphics area as I have scripting completely mastered.

interdpth
December 30th, 2009, 10:39 AM
If you can think. You can ASM hack and script.

If you can't, well you need to go back to school.

If you graduated and can't do it, spend some time trying, if you still can't, you may need a dunce hat.

Glitch.
December 31st, 2009, 11:15 AM
ASM and scripting for me. i looked at a ASM tutorial and i was like WOW how the &%#@ am i supposed to do this. :P maping is so easy it just comes natural to me. scripting on the other hand will take time to learn.

Pheya
December 31st, 2009, 11:22 AM
For me personally it's ASM hacking and importing sprites. =/

Scripting is the most easiest thing to do in my opinion.

kingsven
January 4th, 2010, 03:38 AM
for me it is scripting i gues xD

Omega Zero
January 19th, 2010, 10:14 PM
Asm and spriting are hard but since i can't even draw a box without it looking retarded
asm is easyer >_>

0m3GA ARS3NAL
January 20th, 2010, 03:31 AM
I think the reson so many of you think SM is hard is because it looks like a bunch of gibberish to you...
In essence, it is the same as scripting, it just has a million more possibilities...
Closer to computer language than most other things in ROM Hacking...

Another problem people have is locating the addresses in the RAM to be able to do anything at all.
All you really need is an explanation for what every command in ASM means, what they do, and how to use it... HMM... SOUNDS LIEK SCRIPTING DOESN'T IT?!?!!?!1!shift+1!!!?question mark!

I guess that is why it isn't the most difficult thing in the world for me to understand, but I think interdpth went a little far with saying if you can't learn it then you are stupid...
Joking or not, that isn't the case.
Some things just come easier to people than others...
I've been scripting for a long, LONG time now, and only recently... well, a few months ago learned that ASM even existed, and was skeptical as to what it did, how to use it, etc etc...

Now that I've taken an interest to it, and want to learn as much as possible about it, I've been looking into useful sites like gbadev and things like that...

TL;DR?
ASM isn't so hard in retrospect, just takes a logical mind and patience.

Iacobus
January 20th, 2010, 05:14 AM
I have to agree with interdpth that creating a good storyline is one of the difficult things when you want to create a game/hack. Over 9000 hacks on this forum share the same storyline, which is why I don't pay attention to most of them. It's easier to learn a programming language (i.e. scripting/ASM) than to learn how to be creative. Creativity is one of our human skills that can't really be taught. In my opinion creativity is also closely linked to intelligence. That's why most creative inventors weren't stupid, a bit mad maybe, but not stupid.

Nepse
February 4th, 2010, 12:00 PM
Asm and tileinserting, I can`t do any of em:(

Vrai
February 5th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Graphics are pretty easy to change but making them is an entirely different story for the artistically challenged.
What's easiest and hardest varies from person to person. There is no skill that will be the hardest for every single hacker.

^ My thoughts exactly.

For me specifically, I usually struggle with spriting, both tile spriting and OW spriting. It's not so much that I'm downright graphically challenged (which I am, of course) but I'm a perfectionist. If something I do, as far as hacking goes, isn't perfect, I have to scratch it and start over.

Thrace
February 5th, 2010, 07:50 PM
I think its mapping. Most people are terrible at it and its not really something that can be taught. Unlike scripting or even ASM where transforming an idea into code can be broken down into steps, mapping is a much more visceral affair. Everyone and anyone can make a map, but the ability to point and click isn't what makes you a good mapper.

Muffin™
February 7th, 2010, 03:42 PM
I find mapping VERY hard. And sprite hacking.

Ninja Caterpie
February 7th, 2010, 11:47 PM
I think its mapping. Most people are terrible at it and its not really something that can be taught. Unlike scripting or even ASM where transforming an idea into code can be broken down into steps, mapping is a much more visceral affair. Everyone and anyone can make a map, but the ability to point and click isn't what makes you a good mapper.

See, that's where we need to define the title.

What is meant by "hard"? Hard to do at all or hard to do well?

Pokestick, good times.
February 17th, 2010, 01:38 AM
I'm gonna go short here, cuz I'm a bit tired right now.

To me, Scripting is the most difficult, if I'm gonna put it up against Graphic and mapping. Graphic goes smooth for me, because I'm good at it, and mapping flows even better.
Scripting, on the other hand, is difficult to even insert to the ROM. Doing good scripts is even tougher. So I don't do it.

So for me, Scripting is the most difficult part as of things I've tried to do.

Omega Zero
February 17th, 2010, 10:18 AM
I'm gonna go short here, cuz I'm a bit tired right now.

To me, Scripting is the most difficult, if I'm gonna put it up against Graphic and mapping. Graphic goes smooth for me, because I'm good at it, and mapping flows even better.
Scripting, on the other hand, is difficult to even insert to the ROM. Doing good scripts is even tougher. So I don't do it.

So for me, Scripting is the most difficult part as of things I've tried to do.
Scripting is not hard it's just people think it's hard if you learn it, it's easy

DonGGaMilo
February 18th, 2010, 06:46 AM
I think hardest skills is scripting setflags, checkflags. maybe i have to training them.

Daeva Okami-Luca
February 18th, 2010, 07:06 AM
OW Spriting takes time, but I'm really creative and enjoy spriting so it is quite easy. But no matter how many tutorials I go through I cannot script to save my life.

pokemon heart gold
February 20th, 2010, 09:21 AM
Everyone is different, some people find scripting easy, some people think mapping is easy. Everyone's different and there is no hardest skill because of this fact. I think mapping and making custom sprites are easy, but when it comes to scripting I just completely no good at it. While some people are like "how can people have trouble with scripting it's totally easy!" It all depends on what you like and what you think is hard. So in my opinion there is no "hardest" skill.

TheAppleFreak
February 20th, 2010, 11:14 AM
For me, it's definitely ASM and mapping. I can understand a fair amount of scripting, and music insertion is okay (composition, on the other hand, is Kaizo-hard) but anything that requires that skill called "art" is beyond me.

Ty2
March 15th, 2010, 12:02 AM
Just stop the opinions because we all know scripting is the most difficult one there is haha

Prof. Briar
March 15th, 2010, 01:29 AM
First of all, people need to stop splitting hairs over what is or is not "hacking". It's pretty obvious from the OP's own post that they meant for this to apply to all aspects of the process. You are making a ROM hack, thus whatever you do to make it, is a part of the "hacking" process, yes?

That being said, I'm surprised at all this "graphics vs. code" nonsense. The hardest part of making a ROM hack, in my humble opinion, is the designing. When you plan out the hack, you must do far more work than at any other step, and oftentimes redo your work over and over. Scripts are made and work, sprites are drawn and look good, but designs are constantly reworked throughout the process. Not only that, but design requires an understanding of all the other parts of the hack, good writing skills, a sense of storytelling, and so much more. While other aspects of the hack require only one skill, a designer must be a Jack-of-all-trades, an artist and a scholar who not only lays detailed plans, but also spends hours in research to make certain that one's ideas can be implemented within the framework of the game you are hacking. At times, this can mean reworking hours or even weeks of planned content to accommodate that one feature that you can't make work quite how you planned it. Not to mention the people skills you need if you're part of a team.

Paper Mario
March 15th, 2010, 10:05 AM
I think the hardest part is spriting and creating tiles, mainly because if you don't know how to script or ASM you can learn it. Spriting is art, if you haven't artistic skills there is NO way you can learn how to sprite, like learning how to draw good as well

PeregrineFig
March 15th, 2010, 11:18 AM
I consider myself a relatively good scripter, because I think in a logical and efficient fashion that makes it easy for me. However, I am by no means artistic, so any form of spriting is my downfall. The most I can do on my own is palette editing.

Alpha_Spike
March 15th, 2010, 07:15 PM
I'm great at mapping and can do a small amount of scripting but today I found my downfall. I tried inserting Electivire's sprites and completely failed. I have no clue why it messed up. I followed instructions but still messed up. So now I gotta find someone to help replace the Kecleon sprites in either FR or LG.

TheRichar
March 15th, 2010, 07:37 PM
well, I dont know why, but I just, CANT learn scripting! I've really try but always mess it up, I could so almost everything expet for that (and good mapping, at least acceptable)