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View Full Version : SORRY, BUT WEATHERMAN, KIYOSHI IS OUR WORD [Debate Thread]


Weatherman, Kiyoshi
February 24th, 2010, 08:03 PM
Approved by That Cherrim who is going to be in My stew later (http://www.pokecommunity.com/member.php?u=31)

As there is extreme bigotry, there is extreme anti-bigotry.

I've bet you've noticed that words that were and are used for bigoted comments towards a minority are being used by the minorities themselves.

The minority group gets away with this, however, if someone out of the minority says it, they are automatically deemed "bigots", whether they are or aren't.

For example, let's say there were a purple-colored race.
In thier history, they were often called "grapes".

So, years later in present day were bigotry has calmed down just a little, there are a group of purple-colored people talking, calling eachother "grapes".

Then when a person that is not purple-colored says it without any sort of bigoted intension, they are ranted at for being bigoted.

-----

The question is, what are your thoughts on this?

Is a minority not bigoted if they use thier own bigoted origin term to address each other?

Real-life examples of this:
("The n word" - Africans)
("The f word" - Gays)
("A word that involves beans" - Hispanics)

*note that these words are not meant to offend, and are censored for a reason, these are here mearly to remind people replying of what some actual examples are that don't involve theoretical purple-people.

*PLEASE ALSO NOTE:
notice how my opinion on this matter has not been even so much as uttered in this post, so please don't go assuming I'm whining about not being able to say certain words. That isn't even my opinion on it, anyway.

twocows
February 24th, 2010, 08:53 PM
People can't talk rationally about emotional issues. The only way this will get resolved is with time.

Esper
February 24th, 2010, 09:14 PM
Words have different meanings and connotations among different groups and cultures. I'll sometimes tell my gay friend "you're so gay" because between us we know it doesn't mean anything bad. It's our way of showing how close and comfortable we are with each other and it's also pretty acceptable in the social circles we're in.

Now, if some stranger said that it would be different. They wouldn't have the personal relationship, wouldn't be part of our group/crowd/circle. They wouldn't know us personally. I hold them to a different standard. Yes, it's not treating everyone equally, but I do think it's treating everyone fairly. I don't see a problem with expecting everyone to show a little restraint in the words they use with other people until they are "invited in" so to speak.

It might bother some purple people to hear the term "grape" being used. And you can't say that because two purple people use "grape" with each other that all purple people are okay with it, but if the two people talking with each other are I'm not going to feel discriminated against just because I, a non-purple person, can't use the same term.

tl;dr Don't get all hurt because other people get away with certain inflammatory language and you don't. You can get away with different language that they can't.

Weatherman, Kiyoshi
February 25th, 2010, 02:58 AM
Words have different meanings and connotations among different groups and cultures. I'll sometimes tell my gay friend "you're so gay" because between us we know it doesn't mean anything bad. It's our way of showing how close and comfortable we are with each other and it's also pretty acceptable in the social circles we're in.

Now, if some stranger said that it would be different. They wouldn't have the personal relationship, wouldn't be part of our group/crowd/circle. They wouldn't know us personally. I hold them to a different standard. Yes, it's not treating everyone equally, but I do think it's treating everyone fairly. I don't see a problem with expecting everyone to show a little restraint in the words they use with other people until they are "invited in" so to speak.

It might bother some purple people to hear the term "grape" being used. And you can't say that because two purple people use "grape" with each other that all purple people are okay with it, but if the two people talking with each other are I'm not going to feel discriminated against just because I, a non-purple person, can't use the same term.

tl;dr Don't get all hurt because other people get away with certain inflammatory language and you don't. You can get away with different language that they can't.

>.>"

Er, I made the thread, that doesn't mean that the post was a whine about the topic. The first post was completely and utterly neutral, for the purposes of asking the thread question.

Don't go assume things there, Jethro.

Timbjerr
February 25th, 2010, 11:51 AM
I've always seen it as a sign that the bigotry is steadily receding. If a minority group is using the slurs once used against them to describe eachother, they must not be bothered by them anymore. I've even used the N-word around a black friend of mine (it was more of a slip of the tongue brought on by too much time on 4chan), but since he knew me to be the farthest thing from racist, he didn't care. XD

At this rate, bigotry will be a thing of the past in my lifetime.

Esper
February 25th, 2010, 12:33 PM
>.>"

Er, I made the thread, that doesn't mean that the post was a whine about the topic. The first post was completely and utterly neutral, for the purposes of asking the thread question.

Don't go assume things there, Jethro.
Don't assume I was talking to you, Weatherman. ;D What I wrote is what I'd say to anybody who was whining about how unfair it is and didn't want to read the non-tl;dr version.

And I agree with Timbjerr about how it seems like a sign that bigotry is receding. At least I hope it is.

Weatherman, Kiyoshi
February 25th, 2010, 01:16 PM
Don't assume I was talking to you, Weatherman. ;D What I wrote is what I'd say to anybody who was whining about how unfair it is and didn't want to read the non-tl;dr version.

And I agree with Timbjerr about how it seems like a sign that bigotry is receding. At least I hope it is.

*falls over*

Sorry XD
The way it worded, I thought it was pointed at me.
I tried my hardest to make that post super-neutral asking style, so seeing that made my soul kinda crushed. XD

Annyway, since I'm posting anyway, Here's my opinion on this matter:

I think it's a bit of descrimination in itself.
I mean, if a bigoted term comes out of the mouth of a person who is of the minority group the terms is pointed towards, it's fine.
But if by any other, it's bigoted.

...what?
So, suddenly, the term is okay to say if you are of blankedy-blank minority?

If you catch my drift.

But I'm not saying everyone should be allowed to get away with these words.
I'm saying no one should be allowed with getting away with these words.

It shouldn't be a less severe bigoted term just because the person of the minority says it. It's an oxymoron, but that doesn't make it not wrong.

And that's just my view.

Spikey-Eared Pichu
February 25th, 2010, 05:54 PM
But that's just how it is, whether we like it or not. I'm Cuban, so my friends call me a Banana Boater, or a Cigar Roller. Does it bother me? Not really. Would I use these terms towards another Cuban, yes, but only if they're a friend and know I'm not racist. Whether we like it or not, people will use bigotry as they like.

It is a double-standard on itself. I hear African Americans in my school call each other the n-word, but if a white person were to say that, they'd kick his ass. They'd probably be upset if a hispanic or asian said it, but if the person is of white skin, they are more likely to be beatn or abused by the minority group. It's something that can't be helped.