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Team Rocket's Raichu
March 9th, 2010, 02:55 PM
I was thinking about switching my operating system to Ubuntu, but first I need a few questions answered.

1) Is Ubuntu good?

2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?

3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?

4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?

5) Any misc. stuff you want to tell me about Ubuntu?

Spinor
March 9th, 2010, 03:12 PM
1) Is Ubuntu good?
It is an useful operating systems for techy/personal mixed people. But if you have no intention in programming or any sort of creation with computers then it's probably not worth it.

2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?
Nope. Ubuntu runs on commands and binary data. Windows runs on a bunch of random shtuff + its system dlls.

3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?
Yeah... if you are running "Hello World"s and all that other beginner tutorial crap. Good luck getting it to run any of your important applications efficiently.

4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?
In case you don't like it, make a seperate partition in the hard drive, and install it in that partition, if you don't like it, format it, delete, and re-extend your main windows partition.

5) Any misc. stuff you want to tell me about Ubuntu?
If you are not programming, making web pages, or studying computer science, stay away from Linux. You'll be disappointed with limitations and difficulties.


And... that's my song on Ubuntu.

pokejungle
March 9th, 2010, 03:19 PM
1) Is Ubuntu good?
It is a great OS o3o I've used it across several computers.

2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?
Nope. Linux has a completely different way of running programs, just like Windows programs don't work on Mac.

3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?
I don't know much about WINE honestly. There are many unusable programs from what I've heard.

4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?
Um I would install it so you can dual boot. That way you still have Vista and can try out Ubuntu as well.

5) Any misc. stuff you want to tell me about Ubuntu?
It's a good distro for beginners BUT it's still Linux and has a learning curve to it.

What programs did you want to use in Linux?

ps- I like linux a lot more than the poster above me. It's not just for developers. There are a WIDE range of programs for your enjoyment. A lot of open source alternatives to common programs you use on Windows :3

twocows
March 9th, 2010, 04:30 PM
If your current system is working, there's no reason to switch. Linux is great and all, but why rock the status quo if there isn't a problem?

Team Rocket's Raichu
March 9th, 2010, 05:02 PM
If your current system is working, there's no reason to switch. Linux is great and all, but why rock the status quo if there isn't a problem?

Why switch anything if it works?

Because we are humans and if there is something better, we want it. :D

donavannj
March 9th, 2010, 05:09 PM
Why switch anything if it works?

Because we are humans and if there is something better, we want it. :D

Well, are you sure you want to move to Ubuntu? Gaming will be difficult on it, if you want to game. Though you can have it set up with a few good open source programs upon install.

pokejungle
March 9th, 2010, 05:12 PM
I guess right now I have Fedora on my netbook and essentially I just use it for Word Processing. Gamers are virtually nonexistent on linux :(

These people are making linux sound sucky though... it's not!

donavannj
March 9th, 2010, 05:19 PM
I guess right now I have Fedora on my netbook and essentially I just use it for Word Processing. Gamers are virtually nonexistent on linux :(

These people are making linux sound sucky though... it's not!

Depends on if your instructor knows how to teach or not. :( /has a crappy instructor

Archer
March 9th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Why switch anything if it works?

Because we are humans and if there is something better, we want it. :D
The thing is, it's not necessarily better from the get go. I love Linux, but you really need to try it out on an old spare computer before you go mucking around with partitioning your HDD, etc.

Also, it's very difficult to go from a dual-boot back to single, so you need to be sure you want to do that. Another option is a Wubi install of Ubuntu, which installs Linux on a virtual partition under Windows. It still boots independantly of Windows, but it can be uninstalled through the Windows Control Panel. The downside is that you can't Hibernate or Standby on a Wubi install.

Depends on if your instructor knows how to teach or not. :( /has a crappy instructor
Um, wrong thread, maybe?

twocows
March 9th, 2010, 09:11 PM
Why switch anything if it works?

Because we are humans and if there is something better, we want it. :D
It's not better, just different. Every OS has its strengths and weaknesses. As always, it really depends on what you want to use your computer for. I prefer to have a dual-boot because there's a lot of Linux software that I like to use, but there's also a lot of Windows software that I like to use.

linkinpark187
March 10th, 2010, 06:12 AM
Ubuntu is great. I've run it before, but...my main gripe is the lack of good Windows emulators. But there are also guides that show you how to run Windows seamlessly inside of Linux. I'm going to agree with Archer, though, and say that you should probably try it on a different computer before doing anything drastic like removing Windows/repartitioning your hard drive, or by using Wubi. It's a big leap going from Windows to Linux, and you have to make sure you're prepared to do it before you go for it. :D

Zet
March 10th, 2010, 06:47 AM
If you're going to emulate Windows programs, just use Windows.

Though I've had a bad experience with ubuntu in the past. I couldn't get WINE to install.

linkinpark187
March 10th, 2010, 07:02 AM
I've had WINE work, but...something like Microsoft Office took over an hour to install, whereas on a PC, it only takes about 10-15 minutes. WINE is reliable, so long as you know how to use it and you're VERY patient. :laugh:

pokejungle
March 10th, 2010, 10:39 AM
omg @_@

Use Linux for Linux. If you want Windows programs, for gods sakes, use Windows. Why do people think Ubuntu is no good unless they can run Windows programs on it?!

TheAppleFreak
March 10th, 2010, 04:01 PM
In my experiences, Linux tends to require TLC, but once you get it working (i.e. figure out where everything is, get used to GNOME, find suitable replacements for your programs, Google endlessly as to why x component doesn't work and download drivers and dig up instructions on how to install something from the command line, etc.) it can be good. Only problem is, there are even less programs available for Linux than the other major OSes (Windows and OS X).

If you're really desperate, though, download VMware Player and install it in a virtual machine. If you like it, set up a dual-boot system and install it permanently. If not, delete the VM. It's that simple.

Misaka Shiori
March 10th, 2010, 05:11 PM
I use KUbuntu 9.10 on one of my other laptops with the help of rEFIt on my Macbook Pro (it's a very helpful bootloader that doesn't require you to hold down the option key to boot to another partition). If you going to use Ubuntu first time, I suggest using KUbuntu since it's rather easier to use than Gnome and have more apps built in.

Also, If you have a recent NVidia card, vdpau is very useful in H264 acceleration with mplayer, which is equivalent to CUDA and DXVA. However, Flash support isn't that great in Linux and it never was. This is the same case with Flash on Mac OS X.

TheAppleFreak
March 10th, 2010, 07:27 PM
This is the same case with Flash on Mac OS X.
Not necessarily; Flash runs rather well on my laptop (not so much my Hackintosh netbook, though...).

What type of computer are you going to run it on? If you're running it on a Mac, then rEFIt is a good bootloader, but if you're on a PC, Chameleon is the only way to go (http://chameleon.osx86.hu/). It should be fully configurable under Linux.

Misaka Shiori
March 10th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Not necessarily; Flash runs rather well on my laptop (not so much my Hackintosh netbook, though...).

What type of computer are you going to run it on? If you're running it on a Mac, then rEFIt is a good bootloader, but if you're on a PC, Chameleon is the only way to go. It should be fully configurable under Linux.

I own several Macs (atleast 4 that is in current use and 2 for old programs), but the problem with Flash on Macs is that the unusually high CPU usage when I go to play Youtube videos, especially on the Mac mini G4 which the CPU hits 72% and also the infamous Flash Crash bug that Adobe haven't fixed for awhile, but eventually fixed because of bad publicity... This is the main reason I install Click2Flash which is a great plugin that allows you to click on the Flash object when you need it and play Youtube videos in H264 without Flash. Flash is on it's way out in the near future for video since browsers are already implementing the video tag in HTML5 allowing video be played without Flash in either H264 (Chrome and Webkit) and Ogg Theora (Supported in Firefox and Opera 10.5).

Not to mention, in some cases... Flash is the main cause of Browsers crashing, but that doesn't really happen on Snow Leopard because of plugin sandboxing with 64-bit Safari and other programs that is 64-bit and uses Webkit.

I don't know about Flash on Windows, but I'll check that later.

Dopefish7590
March 10th, 2010, 08:35 PM
Linux is awesome... I use it a lot. It is fully customizable to do whatever you want... But it has a learning curve. Also, if you want to run your Windows programs, I'd keep Windows installed and don't bother partitioning, just use an older computer to experiment with. As for gaming, there are ports of all of IDs games, and emulators for most consoles...

I use WINE for running Steam, and with the correct configuration it can run Windows programs as fast as Windows can. But this is only true for some programs. I wouldn't rely on it, but it's useful if you get it working.

Zet
March 10th, 2010, 08:39 PM
Linux is awesome... I use it a lot. It is fully customizable to do whatever you want... But it has a learning curve. Also, if you want to run your Windows programs, I'd keep Windows installed and don't bother partitioning, just use an older computer to experiment with. As for gaming, there are ports of all of IDs games, and emulators for most consoles...

I use WINE for running Steam, and with the correct configuration it can run Windows programs as fast as Windows can. But this is only true for some programs. I wouldn't rely on it, but it's useful if you get it working.

Unfortunately it is not fully customizable to do whatever we want it to do! I told to get me a glass of coca-cola in the console and yet I am still waiting to this day for said glass of coca-cola. But since you're using WINE to use some windows programs, why not just go back to windows and be a real user instead of having to rely on something that might work?

solovino
March 10th, 2010, 10:27 PM
Well, are you sure you want to move to Ubuntu? Gaming will be difficult on it, if you want to game.
Why do people assume that game == the latest expenditure of 3D superstereo surroundwoofer HD games that require joysticks with 12 buttons and a graphics card that won't yet be available in your country?
If you want to game, I mean truly game, most SNES and Play Station emulators work wonders on Linux. "Game" is not exactly an excuse to not move to a Linux environment, unless there is actually a compelling reason why you can't enjoy The Game 2 instead of The Game 3...


Unfortunately it is not fully customizable to do whatever we want it to do! I told to get me a glass of coca-cola in the console and yet I am still waiting to this day for said glass of coca-cola. But since you're using WINE to use some windows programs, why not just go back to windows and be a real user instead of having to rely on something that might work?

That's true, but there's a difference of degree between the customization as it is understood in a Windows system (oh I want this Aero-like skin in my Windows 3.11!!!!1eleventyone!+virus) and a Linux system (oh I want to run this script with Perl and have it pick me the window decorations from random social network bars then notofy me via mail\!\!\!\!eleventyone!.sh). I mean, truly, if you have a Linux system and have been waiting for the coca-cola for so long, why don't you just get the secret ingredient, compile, and say sudo make coca-cola?

Besides, there are (unfortunately) very valid reasons to run a Windows app from Wine. A Wine environment, when well configured, is very stable and resilent to damages, and can be made to switch states in a whim. Among other apps that run better under Wine than under Windows there's Firefox, Horas, the Encarta Encyclopedia, and Age of Empires 2. If a Windows app gets infected under Wine (it can happen (http://blog.opensourcenerd.com/i-can-haz-virus)), you can just, in the worst case scenario, rm -rf ~/.wine/ and start anew right off the bat with your salvaged data and Windows-specific files most of the time. Even then, viruses will only be able to do menial damage to a Linux installation -- just let them try to do any low-level access to imprint themselves on the MBR. If you are straceing your Wine installation, time to go for a coffe, sit and laugh. Your documents writable by you are still fair game for the viruses, true, but then again you opted in for the virus under Linux for something...

That said, I have to actually agree with Zet and pokejungle on the bottom of the matter: if you need Windows that badly, why not just use it? The more if it was already working. That way you'll be confining yourself to only one weak point (or 1/3, if you just used Linux) instead of two, since you'll have to dea with Windows issues and Linux issues.

Archer
March 10th, 2010, 10:50 PM
Unfortunately it is not fully customizable to do whatever we want it to do! I told to get me a glass of coca-cola in the console and yet I am still waiting to this day for said glass of coca-cola.
You did it wrong. Add the repositories below and run the following command, afterwards.


deb http:/cocacola.com/repo/freedrinks/2/ karmic main

Sudo apt-get cokeOf course, your internet connection is going to have an impact on how long this takes, but keep in mind, mobile and satellite internet is going to disolve some of the bubbles, due to the bumpy ride.

I don't even bother with Wine in Linux. There are alternatives to most programs that are usually as good. Sadly, OpenOffice isn't up to scratch with MS Office 2007, although it's similar to 2003. When gaming, I just use Windows, it's pointless to do otherwise.

solovino, why would you run Firefox under wine, when it runs natively under linux? That said, Safari runs horribly, but that's what you get when you run a Mac browser ported to Windows and then translated to Linux code. Not that I'd use anything other than FF, aside from the lightning fast Epiphany, which is native to Gnome.

Viruses under Wine? That's why you run an antivirus under Wine, lol.

Oh, and you'll want a good internet connection to keep a Ubuntu up to date. It has more updates than Windows, and will be a pain without a decent net connection/DL limit.

solovino
March 10th, 2010, 11:18 PM
solovino, why would you run Firefox under wine, when it runs natively under linux?
Oh, just to smile at the weirdness that I just mentioned: the windows version runs better under Wine... than both the Windows version in Windows and the Linux version in Linux. That's true for Firefox 2, at least; I haven't tested with Firefox 3 but assuming a not very high plugin load, it may as well be the same case.

Actually, viruses is one of the reasons why I run my windows apps under a VirtualBox machine rather than Wine. Thanks to some recent changes in the image formats, it is very easy for me to back up a previously stated, known-to-work windows VM.

pokejungle
March 10th, 2010, 11:30 PM
Chrome is on linux now too <3

Archer
March 11th, 2010, 04:06 AM
Chrome is on linux now too <3
It was 6 months ago and I still don't like it. Epiphany is just so much better on Gnome.

Team Rocket's Raichu
March 12th, 2010, 11:36 AM
You guys are mentioning if you want to use Windows programs, just use Windows. Well, I like to hack Pokemon games, and there is no tools for it on Linux, so I just mentioned WINE.

But I'm going to try it on an old computer like some of you suggested.

Kombo Studio
March 12th, 2010, 11:51 AM
Ubuntu is a great OS. I don't think that there is a learning curve, or at least not one as great as for OSX or Windows. I believe Ubuntu is the most accessible and easy-to-use OS around.

Archer
March 13th, 2010, 05:59 AM
Ubuntu is a great OS. I don't think that there is a learning curve, or at least not one as great as for OSX or Windows. I believe Ubuntu is the most accessible and easy-to-use OS around.

The simple stuff is easy. Like if you want to install a program that is already in the repository, then it's fine. But, for example, today, I was trying to get Avira working with Linux. I had to find and run a script as root to install the engine, then I had to compile sections of some other engine to get the second half of Avira to work. In the end, I got annoyed and put it off until another time.

Basically, normal stuff works, but stuff outside of what is accounted for usually becomes a ***** of a job or presents a huge learning curve. That said, especially with a massive distro like Ubuntu, you won't have to venture into the wilderness for much.

Clearly no-one liked my response to Zet's coke joke. =(

Zet
March 13th, 2010, 06:02 AM
The simple stuff is easy. Like if you want to install a program that is already in the repository, then it's fine. But, for example, today, I was trying to get Avira working with Linux. I had to find and run a script as root to install the engine, then I had to compile sections of some other engine to get the second half of Avira to work. In the end, I got annoyed and put it off until another time.

Basically, normal stuff works, but stuff outside of what is accounted for usually becomes a ***** of a job or presents a huge learning curve. That said, especially with a massive distro like Ubuntu, you won't have to venture into the wilderness for much.

Clearly no-one liked my response to Zet's coke joke. =(

I think no-one responded because they didn't get it or they didn't see it.

pokejungle
March 13th, 2010, 01:26 PM
I got it :p I just don't bother posting unless I have something to contribute to the actual discussion.

Thought there was a native Linux antivirus called CLAM or something :s

twocows
March 13th, 2010, 03:09 PM
The simple stuff is easy. Like if you want to install a program that is already in the repository, then it's fine. But, for example, today, I was trying to get Avira working with Linux. I had to find and run a script as root to install the engine, then I had to compile sections of some other engine to get the second half of Avira to work. In the end, I got annoyed and put it off until another time.

Basically, normal stuff works, but stuff outside of what is accounted for usually becomes a ***** of a job or presents a huge learning curve. That said, especially with a massive distro like Ubuntu, you won't have to venture into the wilderness for much.

Clearly no-one liked my response to Zet's coke joke. =(
Why were you trying to put antivirus on Linux?

.little monster
March 13th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Why were you trying to put antivirus on Linux?
Better safe than sorry, I suppose?

solovino
March 13th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Why were you [Archer] trying to put antivirus on Linux?

Well, if one is using Linux and expects to share files with Windows (l)users/systems, then it's far better to have an antivirus than not have it; let's not end up liable for other people's...um... misfortune.

Besides, Avast runs well under Linux. And with little help from Clamav, you'll only need the antivirus for on-demand scanning.

twocows
March 13th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Better safe than sorry, I suppose?

Well, if one is using Linux and expects to share files with Windows (l)users/systems, then it's far better to have an antivirus than not have it; let's not end up liable for other people's...um... misfortune.

Besides, Avast runs well under Linux. And with little help from Clamav, you'll only need the antivirus for on-demand scanning.

I don't see the point. I imagine the Windows system has its own antivirus, and you're not going to get a virus on Linux unless you go out compiling everything you see and then some.

solovino
March 13th, 2010, 05:08 PM
Neither would I, but I dualboot. Don't want the chance of a virus slipping under the antivirus's sight and infecting the MBR or overwriting the AV itself because some particular file could go preloaded or it could have picked just the right virus from yesterday and I haven't updated the AV database ever since last month.

For anything else, it's just a commodity and an insurance against stupid lawyers.

Zet
March 13th, 2010, 06:53 PM
That's why you should be sandboxing a browser in private mode for porn. :3

solovino
March 13th, 2010, 07:05 PM
As if I didn't do that already ... what? Oh, yeah, that's why one (someone else, mind) would... :D

Well, I technically sandbox my browsers for development. I have a VM purely for web testing, that has something like 4 versions of Firefox, 3 of Opera, 4 of Netscape, 1 of IE and 8 minor browsers installed. And the entire system resets to default settings on every boot. Maybe I'm overreacting a little...

But then again, it's so easy to set up with systems like Ubuntu and Fedora, I couldn't miss the chance...

Immortal_one
March 13th, 2010, 09:27 PM
1) Is Ubuntu good?
I've found that Unix-based OS's are only good for running servers, networks, or other types of cloud computing. Unless you're just having fun, there's not too much use to putting it on a home computer. I used to have it on my desktop, but I uninstalled it because I found myself rarely using it. It was just taking up space on my hard drive.

2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?
A lot of programs do, like Skype and open office, but if you were wanting to run a game on Ubuntu, you'll be out of luck.

3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?
Yes, but as with any emulator, you won't get 100% performance as you would the real thing. You'll notice a lot of lag, and a few lost capabilities in a lot of programs.

4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?
You can dual-boot your drive, which means you can have your drive partitioned to keep one side Vista, and whatever ratio you choose for Ubuntu. The downside is that the two sides can't communicate, so you'll have to manually transfer your files over.

5) Any misc. stuff you want to tell me about Ubuntu?
Like I said, Ubuntu is good to run a server or a network, or even just to have fun with, but it's really not good to have as a sole operating system. Also, when I dual booted my desktop with it, I had a few display problems. It wouldn't fill my screen without appearing stretched. Also, Wifi is difficult to setup on Ubuntu, which really sucks. You'll probably have to use open office as your word processor, which is compatible with Microsoft Office, but isn't the best thing to have. A lot formatting gets screwed up in the transaction.

Overall, it's a good operating system, but it's not something to have by itself. You'll want to have Windows on your system as well.

Archer
March 13th, 2010, 09:47 PM
I got it :p I just don't bother posting unless I have something to contribute to the actual discussion.

Thought there was a native Linux antivirus called CLAM or something :sYes, Clamwin. Yeah, it's just pathetic. Last time I checked it was only a scanner and it still had poor detection rates.

solovino
March 14th, 2010, 06:59 AM
I'm asumming you talk of your own experience only, Immortal_one...?


2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?
A lot of programs do, like Skype and open office, but if you were wanting to run a game on Ubuntu, you'll be out of luck.

Uh.... OpenOffice is intended to, since it is a multiplatform software.
As for games, I can play anything up to Super Nintendo games, sometimes N64 games perfectly; PS (and for some reason Megadrive) wit some issues; and Sim City 3000 (which has an official Linux port), Age of Empires II and Driv3r in my Fedora installation with no actual gameplay issues. I wouldn't call that "out of luck". Some of my friends can almost smoothly run Medal of Honor games. I guess it depends on the system (both hardware and software) you have installed.


3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?
Yes, but as with any emulator, you won't get 100% performance as you would the real thing. You'll notice a lot of lag, and a few lost capabilities in a lot of programs.

Well... it isn't an emulator, it is a compatibility layer; that means it will only "masquerade" system abilities to be Windows-like. In fact, one can get far better performance and compatibitlity from Wine by using one's Windows installed DLLs for some tasks, at the cost of stability, of course. I do that with GDI and DirectDraw, which solved some of my minor issues with Age of Empires II like the always black letters. The lag for anything media related is still a beatch, though...


4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?
You can dual-boot your drive, which means you can have your drive partitioned to keep one side Vista, and whatever ratio you choose for Ubuntu. The downside is that the two sides can't communicate, so you'll have to manually transfer your files over.

...Or you could just have preplanned your partitioning and leave one separate "data" partition to be used by both Windows and Linux (and how many extra OSes you want to install), avoiding the whole issue.
Or having used a Wubi install if you just wanted to "try it".

Sometimes, just preplanning an important operation saves one from a lot of headaches and actually makes things enjoyable and good enough to last.

That said, Linux just isn't for everyone. It requires one to get off the "Windows" mindset that we're unfortunately conditioned with since after birth like dogs, but that's a good thing. And it requires one to have volition to learn about a system, not "just use it". It works wonders as a desktop system... so long as you like your desktop to be an expanding adventure.

Yes, Clamwin. Yeah, it's just pathetic. Last time I checked it was only a scanner and it still had poor detection rates.
ClamWin is the Windows version. Clamav is the antivirus proper. And maybe you did that check over nine months ago; last I installed, it does incorporate a daemon as well as the on-demand scanner. Still not very good due to the poor database, but there are enough advantages to using an antivirus fro the Linux side and most of the viruses I can find are stopped by my proxy anyways that right now I can't care.