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Jolene
March 15th, 2010, 03:28 PM
If you had somehow managed to disprove the existance of God, would you publish your findings, or would you allow people to carry on believing?

I would publish my findings. I do not believe that all of the suffering and wars involving religion would just go away - people would just find different reasons to fight. But I do think there would be some improvements in the world, like women in Middle Eastern countries might start to gain more rights, and it would be easier for women to get abortions because nobody would believe in souls.

Mizan de la Plume Kuro
March 15th, 2010, 03:31 PM
It is impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of God due to the fact that earthly-world logic and physics cannot be applied to an all-powerful deity who creates said logic.

Nuff said really. I can't say anything on the current question.

Kon~
March 15th, 2010, 03:38 PM
There is no need to publish, as any logical and intelligent person can work out for themselves that there is not a big guy watching our every move and going to welcome us to his cloudy afterlife when we die.

God doesn't exist. Ok?

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 03:40 PM
I'd rather not. People will still have their beliefs, and if religion could do anything positive that was only achievable by their religion, I would rather have people find out by themselves.
I would still show it to a few people though, I just wouldn't publish it for public use.

Wait, isn't it impossible to prove a negative?
…BUT I do not like atheists because they are traitors to the world…

Here is to hoping you're just trolling.

Honest
March 15th, 2010, 03:41 PM
Seeing as I'm a Muslim, I really wouldn't do this...

...but religion aside, I guess I would. But that would lead to a hell of a lot of chaos for those who believe, no?

Jolene
March 15th, 2010, 03:42 PM
There is no need to publish, as any logical and intelligent person can work out for themselves that there is not a big guy watching our every move and going to welcome us to his cloudy afterlife when we die.

God doesn't exist. Ok?

That's not the point. This would be irrefutable evidence that nobody in the world could deny, and everybody in the world would know about it.

Editman
March 15th, 2010, 03:46 PM
If a person's faith is as strong as it's supposed to be, they wouldn't believe you anyway. However i wouldn't. I bet the mind of a righteous person that gets corrupted is worse than one who had no sense of morals in the first place.

Chibi-chan
March 15th, 2010, 03:52 PM
No.


People would not believe me
The Catholic Church would kill me (srs)
I would have probably stopped many people from feeling the placebo that someone loves them. For those people who feel they have nothing left, God is the answer. If you take God out...what do they have to live for?
Crime would probably go up
People would have no reason to be moral


People need faith. In SOMETHING. Just about every civilization believed in some kind of higher being. It's what has kept humanity sane and civil. If you take that out of the picture, we'd be left with something close to chaos.

Kon~
March 15th, 2010, 03:53 PM
That's not the point. This would be irrefutable evidence that nobody in the world could deny, and everybody in the world would know about it.

I see.

Well, then I'd publish. Clearly, seeing as most of the world is deluded into believeing in this "God" person, it would be foolish not to quickly and cleanly disprove everything they believe in and force them to start living like normal folks.

Hantsuki
March 15th, 2010, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't do it. Even though I'm not affiliated with any religion, I don't see why people should have their hopes crushed. I mean, don't people believe in their religion, or believe in a god because they think it will do them good? That's why I say that I think it's alright to follow whatever religion you believe in as long as it makes you a better person.

Chibi-chan
March 15th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I see.

Well, then I'd publish. Clearly, seeing as most of the world is deluded into believeing in this "God" person, it would be foolish not to quickly and cleanly disprove everything they believe in and force them to start living like normal folks.

Ignorance is bliss. What if I told you you live in the Matrix and that everything around you is a projection? Nothing is real. What if I could prove that? I think some people are better off not knowing and believing in the reality that makes them happy. People don't just believe in God because they're mindless zombies who fear him, it's because they feel it completes their life and gives them something to live for.

In a sardonic way, it's like putting a hallucinator on a sobering drug; once you take away his fake friends, he will feel that loneliness that comes with the realization that they were in fact hallucinations and ultimately, kill himself of loneliness. This is actually a real result of such a situation. I'm not asking you to agree with what I say, but understand it at least.

Esper
March 15th, 2010, 03:59 PM
We should name this day Controversial Topic Day. This thread is, like, the cherry on top of Other Chat. Seriously, abortion, creationism, genetically modifying children and now god.

I wouldn't publish. I like not being killed by religious fundamentalists. People will believe what they want to believe and only the kind of people who read and listen to scientific studies would be swayed by proof.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 04:03 PM
No.


People would not believe me
The Catholic Church would kill me (srs)
I would have probably stopped many people from feeling the placebo that someone loves them. For those people who feel they have nothing left, God is the answer. If you take God out...what do they have to live for?
Crime would probably go up
People would have no reason to be moral


People need faith. In SOMETHING. Just about every civilization believed in some kind of higher being. It's what has kept humanity sane and civil. If you take that out of the picture, we'd be left with something close to chaos.
I want to agree with you, I honestly do, but I just can't since most people use their religion as an excuse to murder. I can't remember the last time a nonreligious person drove an airplane into a building or sacrificed a virgin for the gods, so feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. You don't need a divine being to have morals.
Ignorance is bliss.
Maybe for some. But I, like many others, find the pursuit and advancement of knowledge to be my biggest pleasure.
People don't just believe in God because they're mindless zombies who fear him, it's because they feel it completes their life and gives them something to live for.
You don't know some of the people I know. They don't have a real reason for believing, other than they were raised or they just had an epiphany. If you asked them what John 3:16 was, they probably wouldn't know without a bible on hand.


I'm such a debbie downer about these subjects ;;

Chibi-chan
March 15th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Gonna dissect this cause I can.

I want to agree with you, I honestly do, but I just can't since most people use their religion as an excuse to murder. I can't remember the last time a nonreligious person drove an airplane into a building or sacrificed a virgin for the gods, so feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. You don't need a divine being to have morals.
About ten people did the hijacking.
20% of Muslims are Shiite.
90% of those Shiites live in Iran.

Don't use the word 'MOST'.
So...you're wrong.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Gonna dissect this cause I can.


About ten people did the hijacking.
20% of Muslims are Shiite.
90% of those Shiites live in Iran.

Don't use the word 'MOST'.
So...you're wrong.

110%?
I'm not talking just about that, but I'm also talking about terrorism in general. Sure, there are terrorist communist groups, and many communists are atheist, but that doesn't really count since you can have either one without the other.

Alright, a minor slip-up on my case. But I do know too much people that will use anything so they don't have to have a bad conscience.

King Breloom
March 15th, 2010, 04:17 PM
I see.

Well, then I'd publish. Clearly, seeing as most of the world is deluded into believeing in this "God" person, it would be foolish not to quickly and cleanly disprove everything they believe in and force them to start living like normal folks.


theirs a problem with your saying of " normal folks.
In order to be " normal " their has to be like over 50% on one side becuase then thats the normality and the other 49% is the minority.

33% of the world is christian
1 percent is jewish
20% is muslim
36%
and
10% is aithiest

Face it since the dawn of time since man could THINK people who dont beleive in a higher power are the minority

and also no no i wouldnt for the same 5 reasons that other dude said

Chibi-chan
March 15th, 2010, 04:20 PM
110%?

:|

I'm not talking just about that, but I'm also talking about terrorism in general. Sure, there are terrorist communist groups, and many communists are atheist, but that doesn't really count since you can have either one without the other.
This is a religion thread! Not terrorism!


Alright, a minor slip-up on my case. But I do know too much people that will use anything so they don't have to have a bad conscience.

Believing in God helps build a conscience. That's what fear of God is.

You don't know some of the people I know. They don't have a real reason for believing, other than they were raised or they just had an epiphany. If you asked them what John 3:16 was, they probably wouldn't know without a bible on hand.

I've read teh whole Bibalz and I don't know what John 3:16 is. Doesn't mean I don't know what John's saying though!
Do you know what Steven Stone says when you beat him?
WELL THEN, YOU MUST NOT HAVE FINISHED POKEMON R/S HAVE YOU?!
That's silly.
Also, epiphanies are good, don't diss them. Many famous people today are were they are because of epiphanies. Take Ellen. Before she decided to do comedy, her (secret) girlfriend died in a car crash. She was depressed, and decided to write a letter to God. She used that letter and decided to do comedy with it. And she did. Look where she is now.

Throat
March 15th, 2010, 04:24 PM
It's impossible to prove something exist or not, you'd have to know the whole universe.

The question sounds just pointless like "if you had super powers would you do X or not?".

AtomicoExploda
March 15th, 2010, 04:27 PM
Well, if that was to happen, then I wouldn't really know what to do with it at all, I wouldn't see the point in living or learning, it would just leave me completely mystified. But if I had to choose between making it public or not, then I would choose not to because some people wouldn't believe it and as Chibi-Chan said, crime would go up because people would think they could do anything and there would be no punishment after dieing. It would also probably put religious parts of the world to a stand still except for atheists of course.

But ifs aside, I think this would be impossible to prove since God is realer than us and created us, and anyway, I can't even get a thought of what it could be that would prove the non-existence of God.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 04:30 PM
:|

This is a religion thread! Not terrorism!

You know very well what my message was.



Believing in God helps build a conscience. That's what fear of God is.

Opinion. I don't remember myself ever believing in god, but I still feel guilty, even for small things that I did wrong. Well, I think that's what you meant. I'm not really sure since my mind is working like **** on me again.

I've read teh whole Bibalz and I don't know what John 3:16 is. Doesn't mean I don't know what John's saying though!
Do you know what Steven Stone says when you beat him?
WELL THEN, YOU MUST NOT HAVE FINISHED POKEMON R/S HAVE YOU?!
That isn't really my whole point. My point was that there are people that believe for no reason.
I honestly believe that if you are going to believe something, you should at least know part of what you believe in.

Also, epiphanies are good, don't diss them. Many famous people today are were they are because of epiphanies. Take Ellen. Before she decided to do comedy, her (secret) girlfriend died in a car crash. She was depressed, and decided to write a letter to God. She used that letter and decided to do comedy with it. And she did. Look where she is now.

Cherry picking. An epiphany wouldn't be good if someone was told to murder their wife and kids, or mutilate their baby in the name of whatever the hell they believe. But yeah, I'm cherry picking too :(

pokejungle
March 15th, 2010, 04:31 PM
This thread is ridiculous. Considering that I am God, how would you disprove my existence?

Silly, silly mortals.

Throat
March 15th, 2010, 04:31 PM
Well, if that was to happen, then I wouldn't really know what to do with it at all, I wouldn't see the point in living or learning, it would just leave me completely mystified. But if I had to choose between making it public or not, then I would choose not to because some people wouldn't believe it and as Chibi-Chan said, crime would go up because people would think they could do anything and there would be no punishment after dieing. It would also probably put religious parts of the world to a stand still except for atheists of course.

But ifs aside, I think this would be impossible to prove since God is realer than us and created us, and anyway, I can't even get a thought of what it could be that would prove the non-existence of God.
Do you really think people obey the law because of god?

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 04:32 PM
If there is prof of God then it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get abortions. Also why dose everybody talk about religious wars? There are more non religious wars then there are religious wars.

SIN1488
March 15th, 2010, 04:36 PM
If there is prof of God then it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get abortions. Also why dose everybody talk about religious wars? There are more non religious wars then there are religious wars.

That's not true, people would still not care about God and continue to get abortions. It would only be if the government went along and decided to make it illegal, which would fuse church and state. And it's because almost every war in human history DOES have some kind of religious motive behind it.


My own beliefs aside, if I was in this imaginary situation, I would burn it.

Some people need that belief to function, and if they didn't have it their life would be for nothing. They would probably slowly do worse and worse things simply because they don't have anything holding them back. Obviously they didn't REALLY have anything physical holding them back before, just their belief that they would be punished if they did something wrong.

That and I just want to see people argue and fight over religion some more........ *Evil laugh* :badsmile:

Throat
March 15th, 2010, 04:42 PM
That's not true, people would still not care about God and continue to get abortions. It would only be if the government went along and decided to make it illegal, which would fuse church and state. And it's because almost every war in human history DOES have some kind of religious motive behind it.


My own beliefs aside, if I was in this imaginary situation, I would burn it.

Some people need that belief to function, and if they didn't have it their life would be for nothing. They would probably slowly do worse and worse things simply because they don't have anything holding them back. Obviously they didn't REALLY have anything physical holding them back before, just their belief that they would be punished if they did something wrong.

That and I just want to see people argue and fight over religion some more........ *Evil laugh* :badsmile:
It's not completely good. There're people who doesn't do things they wish and would harm no one just because they believe there's a good stalking every action they take.
I know atheist people who are simply great, they help people as much as they can, it's true altruism, because they know god won't give them a reward.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 04:50 PM
@Luck
Stop grouping religion, terrorist, and other religions. You using points about islam to attach other religons. Not fair at all.
As far as I am concern there is Christianity(true), atheist(false), other religions(Mostly False, * Might have some truths)

@Chibi-Chan
Luck as a point on John 3:16. Any body who calls them self a Cristian(or other stems of Christianity like catholic) should know 3:16.
I do, and I do not have a bible in front of me.
"For God so loved the world he gave is only begotten son, for who ever belies in him, will have eternal life, and shal not parish.

@SIN1488
Destroying evidence is against the law.

@Luck
I loved what you said earlier "Here is to hoping, you're just trolling." That rhymed and it was quite funny.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 04:56 PM
I wouldn't. The idea of God and Heaven give people hope and if you had proof that God wasn't real many people would change and I'm sure the world would in fact be a far worse place. There would be much more depression and such.

This is a bit off topic, but I'm an atheist. This message is for all the atheist haters in the world. Just because we don't share your beliefs doesn't mean you have to hate us and make us look bad. I'm sure there are people far worse than us who believe in God, so don't judge someone by their beliefs, judge them by their character.

AtomicoExploda
March 15th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Do you really think people obey the law because of god?

No, that's not what I was saying. I meant that they would have less hesitation for crime, like murder because they wouldn't have to be thinking about punishment after death, and there surely is a punishment for murder.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 05:00 PM
@Luck
Stop grouping religion, terrorist, and other religions. You using points about islam to attach other religons. Not fair at all.
As far as I am concern there is Christianity(true), atheist(false), other religions(Mostly False, * Might have some truths)
For one, it is fundamentalist Islam. I don't have any problems with Muslims that I associate myself with, and neither does anyone else. However, the media tricked people that the majority of Muslims are terrorists or support them, but it's the media's job to overhype everything they can to get a scare out of people.
If you want though, I can show you a Christian terrorist group.
Repent Amarillo.

@Luck
I loved what you said earlier "Here is to hoping, you're just trolling." That rhymed and it was quite funny.

Thanks :>

SIN1488
March 15th, 2010, 05:02 PM
@SIN1488
Destroying evidence is against the law.

Only if it's evidence that involves legal matters, and this does not.

It's not completely good. There're people who doesn't do things they wish and would harm no one just because they believe there's a good stalking every action they take.
I know atheist people who are simply great, they help people as much as they can, it's true altruism, because they know god won't give them a reward.

It doesn't matter what the motivation for good is, as long as you do good and have no intentions of hurting people's lives.

I for one am not atheist, but I also don't believe God will give me any rewards for anything, and I don't picture him pointing to "hell" every time I think a bad thought.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 05:17 PM
oh, but think of all the legal matters that can be solved if there where prof of God. Also I think this thread she be more pacific like who's god like Jesus, or Alla.

Spinor
March 15th, 2010, 05:26 PM
It's not like 99% of Christians are gonna care anyways. So I'll just keep it to myself and stop caring about religion. However, the actions of Jesus Christ would put in question the findings.

PokemonLeagueChamp
March 15th, 2010, 05:31 PM
If God didn't exist, nothing would've been created, so we wouldn't be here to prove his non-existence, as we wouldn't exist either.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 05:38 PM
Well, how do you know that is true? I for one am an atheist, so I oppose your viewpoint. That statement was indeed an opinion, so what proof do you have?

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 05:42 PM
One question for you atheist, how dose something come from nothing. Your not even obeying your pressies science; The law of conservation of mass.

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 05:44 PM
There is no need to publish, as any logical and intelligent person can work out for themselves that there is not a big guy watching our every move and going to welcome us to his cloudy afterlife when we die.

God doesn't exist. Ok?

I would like to see your evidence of this.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 05:46 PM
I would like to see your evidence of this.
What's your evidence he does exist?

.little monster
March 15th, 2010, 05:47 PM
Yes, people deserve the truth. I couldn't care less of the consequences. The truth always prevails in the end.

Zet
March 15th, 2010, 05:48 PM
I would publish it but I'd make it as a joke book so everyone won't take it as serious business. Though there will probably be one or two groups(of any religion) that will protest to get rid of the book(which then will get more sales), after a few weeks of protesting, might as well get it off the shelf and start swimming in the small amount of money I'd make.

I'd also probably donate some of the sales money to charity as a sign of good faith to the groups that protested.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 05:48 PM
One question for you atheist, how dose something come from nothing. Your not even obeying your pressies science; The law of conservation of mass.
:(

This post makes me sad. Just because we can't explain something doesn't mean we need to believe in something that we think is just an outright lie.
I would like to see your evidence of this.

Can't prove a negative.

/discussionend

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 05:51 PM
@luck
you just defined faith. congratulations you have faith. :)

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 05:52 PM
:(

This post makes me sad. Just because we can't explain something doesn't mean we need to believe in something that we think is just an outright lie.


Can't prove a negative.

/discussionend

How do you know that God is real?

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 05:55 PM
How do you know that God is real?

I'm actually an agnostic-atheist, but whatever.
Just because I don't believe god exists doesn't mean I believe god doesn't exist.
A simple change of words can make a world of difference.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 05:58 PM
I'm actually an agnostic-atheist, but whatever.
Just because I don't believe god exists doesn't mean I believe god doesn't exist.
A simple change of words can make a world of difference.

Oh, okay. That's so weird how that twist of words makes a difference.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 06:00 PM
@Luck
Yes it dose, they are directly correlated. God said it himself you are either with me, or against me.

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 06:00 PM
:(

This post makes me sad. Just because we can't explain something doesn't mean we need to believe in something that we think is just an outright lie.


Can't prove a negative.

/discussionend

Can't prove a negative? Then kindly explain why we do it every day in a court of law.

What's your evidence he does exist?

At this rate, I'll remain a Catholic and you will remain an atheist so we should both just stop trying.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 06:03 PM
How do we know he said it? So many questions.

Can't prove a negative? Then kindly explain why we do it every day in a court of law.



At this rate, I'll remain a Catholic and you will remain an atheist so we should both just stop trying.

Your right. We should just believe what we want to. Although, this debate is quite intriuging

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 06:06 PM
@Luck
Yes it dose, they are directly correlated. God said it himself you are either with me, or against me.
>___>
That's only one brand of religion, and that wasn't really my point.
I meant that I don't believe he exists, but I will see evidence(not OMG THIS PLANET IS PERFECT FOR LIFE evidence, mind you) when it arises, and I won't deny it if it is true evidence that can only be attributed to the judeo-christian god.
Can't prove a negative? Then kindly explain why we do it every day in a court of law.

We don't, we just make logical assumptions. For all you know, flying purple monkeys that crap rainbows can exist, but is it logical to believe so? No.

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 06:09 PM
The God presented in the Christian Bible (whether or not you belive in him) states that the only way to the Christian Heaven is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Just because you make lots of mistakes does not earn you a one-way ticket to Hell. God recognized that human beings are flawed so he sacraficed his son to save people, not condemn them; however, you cannot benefit from this if you do not accept the free offer.

If you were very hungry and someone offered you food, you wouldn't benefit from the food if you refused it.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 06:12 PM
I know this is off topic, but you guys are lucky. I'm only twelve and a lot of you are older than me, so it's a little hard to prove my point.

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 06:12 PM
>___>
That's only one brand of religion, and that wasn't really my point.
I meant that I don't believe he exists, but I will see evidence(not OMG THIS PLANET IS PERFECT FOR LIFE evidence, mind you) when it arises, and I won't deny it if it is true evidence that can only be attributed to the judeo-christian god.


We don't, we just make logical assumptions. For all you know, flying purple monkeys that crap rainbows can exist, but is it logical to believe so? No.

We never knew the former planet Pluto existed until the 1930's. Does this mean that Pluto never existed before then just because we couldn't prove it's existence until then?

And yes in a court of law (criminal law) the defendant is either guilty or innoncent. One of the possibilities is a negative outcome and one is a positive outcome and both outcomes can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

SIN1488
March 15th, 2010, 06:12 PM
oh, but think of all the legal matters that can be solved if there where prof of God. Also I think this thread she be more pacific like who's god like Jesus, or Alla.

Since when is Jesus a god, and not man?

But I'm guessing you meant be more specific as in the Christian god, or the Muslim god. Personally, I think it doesn't matter what god you believe in, it's just a different interpretation of God.


Man, whoever thought of bringing a religious debate to PC was either insane, or they are sitting with a bag of popcorn reading this thread and laughing their bum off.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Since when is Jesus a god, and not man?

But I'm guessing you meant be more specific as in the Christian god, or the Muslim god. Personally, I think it doesn't matter what god you believe in, it's just a different interpretation of God.


Man, whoever thought of bringing a religious debate to PC was either insane, or they are sitting with a bag of popcorn reading this thread and laughing their bum off.

Your probably right. We've been arguing about this ridiculous topic for quite some time.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 06:16 PM
Since when is Jesus a god, and not man?

But I'm guessing you meant be more specific as in the Christian god, or the Muslim god. Personally, I think it doesn't matter what god you believe in, it's just a different interpretation of God.


Man, whoever thought of bringing a religious debate to PC was either insane, or they are sitting with a bag of popcorn reading this thread and laughing their bum off.

Might as well switch PC with the Internet, since this seems to happen everywhere I go.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Why are we arguing about this anyway? Does it really benefit us?

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Why should this thread be specific?
There is much evidence that shows that Jehovah, Yahweh, and Allah are the same deity.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Since when is Jesus a god, and not man?

But I'm guessing you meant be more specific as in the Christian god, or the Muslim god. Personally, I think it doesn't matter what god you believe in, it's just a different interpretation of God.


Man, whoever thought of bringing a religious debate to PC was either insane, or they are sitting with a bag of popcorn reading this thread and laughing their bum off.
Jesus, god and the holy spirt are all one. The holy trinity.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 06:39 PM
I don't get how they could all be one thing.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Look at a three leaf clover. Also just because something is out of your realm of understanding doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also I don't know why all of a sudden you guys are saying this thread is pointless/ stupid.

Just because you can't prove your point doesn't mean the thread is useless.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 06:49 PM
Well, both sides can't prove their point, so in a way it is pointless, but interesting.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Both sides can prove there point. (you just can't prove yours) but both sides can't prove there's is law/right. but the whole thread is about you finding prof that makes creation law.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Well then, prove that God exists.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Can't you read! Both sides can't prove existenc, But they can show points.

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Yes. I guess we'll never know till we die. The sad part is though, that once we die we can't tell the rest of the world if there is or isn't a god of any sorts.

NarutoActor
March 15th, 2010, 07:14 PM
Well which scenario would you rather have. God dose not exist I rot in the ground. God dose exist I go to heaven and you go to hell.

Chloroform Girl
March 15th, 2010, 07:19 PM
that's a very good question
I might, I don't believen God but I dont know If I would show everyone the proof the God doesn't exist to those people who hardcore believen Him/her, It might crush them

ryty1231
March 15th, 2010, 07:20 PM
I don't believe in God, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was an afterlife or if reincarnation existed.

Rot in the ground. Sounds less painful.

.Gamer
March 15th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Can't prove a negative.

/discussionend


UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM yes you can?

I can prove, that water is not composed of Carbon in any way shape or form.


For you people who don't know science its


H2O

SIN1488
March 15th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Trying to find if God exists or not is like trying to prove if a pebble is in a sandbox or not. But replace the pebble with God, and make the sandbox the whole universe, and there you go.

Not to mention that since we are barely even able to get off the planet, and the fact that our "universe" is most likely a multiverse, we will search until we are all dust.

Personally, I would rather just choose the "agree to disagree" option.

Yoshimi
March 15th, 2010, 08:35 PM
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM yes you can?

I can prove, that water is not composed of Carbon in any way shape or form.


For you people who don't know science its


H2O

Well, proof is a mathematical term, so ya./terminology
Even then, these are two completely different subjects.

Anti-Hero
March 15th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Well, it wouldn't really do much. People are ignorant, and stubborn. They will continue to believe what they are believing, denying any proof that is shoved their way.

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 09:56 PM
I find it funny that atheists use the same reasoning to support their religion that they use to rebute the Christian religion: the absence of evidence.

They claim it is no good believing in something that can't be proven yet they state God doesn't exist as if it was a proven fact. At least agnostics are somewhat rational.

twocows
March 15th, 2010, 10:11 PM
To answer the original question:
Probably. I doubt that it'd shatter anyone's beliefs, really. Religion would find a way to contextualize it somehow, just like it has done with every scientific breakthrough thus far. It's like with evolution; there are plenty of religious people that simply believe in evolution in the context of their religion.

No.


People would not believe me
The Catholic Church would kill me (srs)
I would have probably stopped many people from feeling the placebo that someone loves them. For those people who feel they have nothing left, God is the answer. If you take God out...what do they have to live for?
Crime would probably go up
People would have no reason to be moral


People need faith. In SOMETHING. Just about every civilization believed in some kind of higher being. It's what has kept humanity sane and civil. If you take that out of the picture, we'd be left with something close to chaos.
Speaking as an atheist, I don't need faith. I don't define my existence based on some pre-ordained meaning; I'm certain there is none, so I make my own.

I find it funny that atheists use the same reasoning to support their religion that they use to rebute the Christian religion: the absence of evidence.

They claim it is no good believing in something that can't be proven yet they state God doesn't exist as if it was a proven fact. At least agnostics are somewhat rational.
I love it how some people generalize as if every single person that doesn't believe in a higher power is somehow irrational because you once got into an argument with a jerk. You're taking one person's view of atheism and extrapolating as if every single atheist believes this as doctrine, which simply isn't true.

CGCoder
March 15th, 2010, 10:18 PM
Atheism: Imagine you're falling into a pit of lava, then someone comes and says "grab my hand if you want to live!" and you say " NEVER! i don't believe in you!"

Esper
March 15th, 2010, 10:27 PM
I find it funny that atheists use the same reasoning to support their religion that they use to rebute the Christian religion: the absence of evidence.

They claim it is no good believing in something that can't be proven yet they state God doesn't exist as if it was a proven fact. At least agnostics are somewhat rational.
Nitpicking point: agnostics are atheists. Atheists are simply people who are not theists, ie., don't believe in god(s). Agnostics don't believe in god(s). That some atheists state outright their belief in a godless universe does not mean all feel similarly.

Also, I think when people say "god doesn't exist" what many of them mean to say (or what they would mean if they were being very precise with their language) is "there is no persuasive evidence of the existence of god and until such evidence is presented the default assumption should be that there is no god."

dr4g0n12
March 15th, 2010, 10:37 PM
I would tell the world. I know it would tick most people off, but oh well.

FreakyLocz14
March 15th, 2010, 11:51 PM
Nitpicking point: agnostics are atheists. Atheists are simply people who are not theists, ie., don't believe in god(s). Agnostics don't believe in god(s). That some atheists state outright their belief in a godless universe does not mean all feel similarly.

Also, I think when people say "god doesn't exist" what many of them mean to say (or what they would mean if they were being very precise with their language) is "there is no persuasive evidence of the existence of god and until such evidence is presented the default assumption should be that there is no god."

Agnostic =/= Atheist

An atheist is someone who has dogmatic faith of a godless universe.

An agnostic is someone who doesn't make any statement on either side because either can be right or wrong.

Atheists have made up their minds as much as theists have, agnostics have not and some never will.

Guillermo
March 16th, 2010, 03:13 AM
As much as I'd love to, I wouldn't. A lot of people would be lost if they were to find out something as shocking as this.

I'm an Atheist, so I don't care if God is real or not.

Ninja Caterpie
March 16th, 2010, 03:37 AM
Yeah, sure, I'd publish my findings, piss of billions of people and make said billions immoral due to the fact that no almighty being is going to punish them. That and some of the billions would lose their way without God.

And make myself sad too.

Brilliant.

Guillermo
March 16th, 2010, 03:39 AM
Yeah, sure, I'd publish my findings, piss of billions of people and make said billions immoral due to the fact that no almighty being is going to punish them.
Don't forget the angry mob.

Azonic
March 16th, 2010, 03:42 AM
No. I believe in God. And I know that having spiritual belief can really help a lot of people in their personal lives.

Alistair
March 16th, 2010, 04:30 AM
Yeah, I probably would publish my findings. I would definitely put a big disclaimer on the book, though. But being areligious (read: not atheist or agnostic), the conclusion as to whether any god(s) existence is negligible to me. So I guess the reverse would also play out. I would also publish a book that proves the existence of any diety.

And yes, areligion does happen. It's the inability to understand religion.

Went
March 16th, 2010, 05:07 AM
I find it funny that atheists use the same reasoning to support their religion that they use to rebute the Christian religion: the absence of evidence.

They claim it is no good believing in something that can't be proven yet they state God doesn't exist as if it was a proven fact.

As far as I know, science and court work this way: you prove x is real/works that way and give evidence to support that. Until you prove something is real, that thing never happened. But the issue is, since nobody has given an objective evidence of god's existence that doesn't require a religious faith nor can be explained in some other way, then there is no evidence to debunk.

You say "absence of evidence". Since there is no evidence, how are we supposed to prove that the evicence proving god's existence is fake?

Right now I can think you have murdered 10 people/god exists. But, since there is absence of evidence, I can't prove the murders are real/god exists. You don't have to prove that the murders are fake/god doesn't exist. So you can claim you didn't murder anybody/god doesn't exists as a fact until somebody shows evidence saying otherwise.

Atheism: Imagine you're falling into a pit of lava, then someone comes and says "grab my hand if you want to live!" and you say " NEVER! i don't believe in you!"

Fun fact: if somebody comes and talks to you, then you'll have that evidence you need. This is more like "You are falling into a pit of lava and somebody else falling with you (the priest) says: 'Believe in x person and he'll eventually come to rescue you'"

TheRichar
March 16th, 2010, 05:19 AM
No because god makes all of us fear of beeing bad like... If I kill I'll go to hell or something like that do if I pub;idh something like that everyone will stop fearing and start doing "bad things"

Bianca Paragon
March 16th, 2010, 05:36 AM
Of course I'd publish ~ then people could let this silly nonsense go and we'd be a far better people for it :3

Code
March 16th, 2010, 05:45 AM
It is impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of God due to the fact that earthly-world logic and physics cannot be applied to an all-powerful deity who creates said logic.

Nuff said really. I can't say anything on the current question.
This ^.

But if there were undeniable proof (hypothetically of course. XD), then I would not publish it. The world needs God. Without God and heaven, there would be very little reason to be good and moral. I'm not talking about everyone, cause some people are just good by heart, without belief. Also, even if such proof were released, I wouldn't have believed in it.

john c0nnor
March 16th, 2010, 07:49 AM
Jesus, god and the holy spirt are all one. The holy trinity.

I would like to see atleast one biblical verse explicitly stating that.

Talli
March 16th, 2010, 08:11 AM
I for one would pubish it, the public would have the right to know.

Jolene
March 16th, 2010, 08:32 AM
The world needs God. Without God and heaven, there would be very little reason to be good and moral.

That's not true at all. Religion may have helped to instill morals and ethics in our society, but now they're so ingrained that people adhere to them regardless of whether or not they believe in a god. And to be honest, I doubt that religion was even responsible for instilling those morals and ethics.

I know very few religious people, but everyone I know is "good and moral". People are good because it makes them feel good and because it's normal to be good, not because they're afraid of God.

Esper
March 16th, 2010, 10:45 AM
Agnostic =/= Atheist

An atheist is someone who has dogmatic faith of a godless universe.

An agnostic is someone who doesn't make any statement on either side because either can be right or wrong.

Atheists have made up their minds as much as theists have, agnostics have not and some never will.
All agnostics are atheists; not all atheists are agnostics. The kind of atheist you describe may have made up her or his mind, but it's not nearly as "dogmatic" to believe something doesn't exist when there is no proof as it is to believe something does exist when there is no proof. The theist is making a big leap of faith. The atheist is taking a small step.

I'm saddened and a little frightened that there are so many people who are only good because they fear punishment. Saddened because they don't do good things because they want to and frightened because something so fragile as faith keeps them from being criminals rather than sympathy and understanding for fellow human beings.

poopnoodle
March 16th, 2010, 11:11 AM
even if i did find irrefutable evidence and publish it, i'm positive people would somehow either adjust their beliefs to the evidence or deny it completely. i would give it a whirl, despite the chastisement i would most likely undergo, but i doubt it would accomplish much.

@ people who believe that empathy isn't natural and that your ~petrifying~ god is the only reason anyone conducts themselves at biblical standards, get out from under your rock. we do not need religion to make moral judgments, i am amused/disturbed by your mentality.

TheGearofWar
March 16th, 2010, 11:14 AM
I would publish it. Doesn't mean people will believe it, but I would still publish it.

Hell, the Bible is supposed "published proof that God does exist", but I don't adhere to it or even really pay attention to it.

It would be the same story, only reversed.

Timbjerr
March 16th, 2010, 02:02 PM
I hate thinking of such radical hypothetical situations. This one especially because I do believe in a God. >_<

In theory, I'd most likely burn my evidence. There are a ton of people in the world that get by in their miserable lives on faith alone (I should know...both of my parents are among them). Without anything to have faith in, I can foresee a deterioration of morals due to the "nothing to live for" argument.

I personally see God in a different way than most Christians...I see Him as a bit of a jerk who created us just for His entertainment. Those of us that proved our character to Him by enduring suffering and hardships get admitted to Heaven and those that fell to depression and despair get sent to Hell. To people like me, the nonexistance of God wouldn't make as much of a difference than it would to the Fundamentalist Christian lot.

Cassino
March 16th, 2010, 02:21 PM
I wouldn't even read let alone publish said proof. I am an apatheist. It appears that it would be disruptive to our current mode of society, the many argumentative atheists will get more bigheaded than they already are about what they so confidently adhere to; while as I refuse to consort with either side of the argument, I would rather keep it away from my name. I may give it to someone else, but hell if I know or care what they will do with it.

Stairmaster
March 16th, 2010, 02:36 PM
No.
People would not believe me
The Catholic Church would kill me (srs)
I would have probably stopped many people from feeling the placebo that someone loves them. For those people who feel they have nothing left, God is the answer. If you take God out...what do they have to live for?
Crime would probably go up
People would have no reason to be moral


I have to say I agree with these reasons. If someone somehow found proof, no matter how infallible it is, many people would choose not to believe their findings. I would rather keep my findings to myself than be criticized by every religious monotheist that walks the Earth.

tehGDS
March 16th, 2010, 02:36 PM
yup! I would get rid of all religion

I Laugh at your Misfortune!
March 16th, 2010, 03:04 PM
I'd want to get them published, but in all honesty I'd probably be too worried about potential retribution from some of the more extreme believers.

SIN1488
March 16th, 2010, 04:18 PM
I'm saddened and a little frightened that there are so many people who are only good because they fear punishment. Saddened because they don't do good things because they want to and frightened because something so fragile as faith keeps them from being criminals rather than sympathy and understanding for fellow human beings.

Exactly. What the hell (lol) happened to people that can just do good simply for the fact that it makes them smile?

All these arguments are kind of pointless, because as someone pointed out, it wouldn't matter if you published "proof". Some people would take it seriously, and some wouldn't. Eventually it would get buried over time and new religions with new "gods" would form because people want their beliefs, and will do whatever they need to continue to have them.

Chrisbob78
March 16th, 2010, 06:40 PM
I whould not. So many people feel so strong for this power we call God I could not be the one to take that away from some one.

Ineffable~
March 16th, 2010, 06:42 PM
It is impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of God due to the fact that earthly-world logic and physics cannot be applied to an all-powerful deity who creates said logic.

Nuff said really. I can't say anything on the current question.
This.
Also...it really wouldn't change anything. @_@; Seriously, people will keep on believing what they want, and if someone's using religion as an excuse for something, they'll pick up another excuse somewhere, I'm sure.

Waffle-San
March 16th, 2010, 07:39 PM
If no one wants to read this wall of text, the last paragraph is my answer. But if you wish to fully understand where my answer came from and my thought process I'd read all of it. Thanks. :)

Probably not, cause realistically God is not a solid. I can ask everyone in this entire thread to define God for me and I will most likely get a different definition from each person. You can't disprove a religion without disproving all religions.

As humans we are naturally scared of the unknown. We haven't always had advanced Sciences but we developed our thoughts and beliefs at a young age. Religion is our way, as humans, to explain the unexplainable. Isn't it odd that almost all Gods seem to have some sort of human characteristic or feature? Whether it be human appearance or human like emotion. Yet we were not the first species to inhibit this Earth, not by a long shot. The Dinosaur's might have died out but they were a success as a species. 160 million+ years of life is something we can only marvel at and dream to accomplish.

Lets put it this way. Death is something many people fear, and why should they? If you're thinking about your death and have no idea what comes next, you'll be terrified. But if I come to you and tell you of this beautiful place that we all will go to when we die, I bet you're going to be relieved and way more comfortable with your own death.
This is most probably the basis of religion, since this is a pokemon forum I'll use 5th generation as an example.

Zorua and Zoroark have already been confirmed and released. Say over the next couple weeks we get some more tid bits of information. We learn of a couple more pokemon (2 or 3) and a little bit about the terrain. Then 5th gen is unexpectedly delayed until an unknown date. Over time fan fics star to be written and read. I inadvertently start reading these fan fics about what people think 5th generation will be like, based on the little information we have. After awhile I pick a favourite and pass the story on to other people.
Now it turns out, there are three main favourite theories (among others) as to what Generation 5 will be. Lets call them Christianity, Islam and Hindu. As time goes on and 5th gen is never released people slowly start to forget that the official plot was never released and begin to believe one of these three. (This is life, cause obviously this wouldn't just happen with a game). Soon, these three are edited slightly, lost in translation or epiphanitized. Call these new side beliefs Judaism and Anglican. Time goes on and soon, people in certain parts of the world get frustrated with people telling a different story, this Judaism. As Christianity is the most populous religion, these Jews have to endure terrible things until soon it's Christianity or death.
Now fast forward and finally after lifetimes, some more 5th gen details are leaked. Very few based on the mysteries that still lie. But enough to go against some of "facts" portrayed by the other religions. Firm believers slightly edit their beliefs to compensate or simply ignore these findings. Other people stop believing entirally while finally some will create new religions based on old and new info. Now lets call a couple of these new beliefs Mormon and Scientology.

There we go, the evolution of religion. BUT despite what I've just said, I still believe in something. See with all I've just written there still isn't any real true evidence to prove that Gods are real OR unreal. And frankly since Religion is a belief based system, one can just edit their beliefs. Does evolution disprove Religion? Or just prove that God was creative and developed our species? I can't really say either. Also, I refuse to pick a certain belief, cause I will not say that any one religion or belief is wrong. For all I care, the Egyptians, Greeks, Roman, Christians, Muslims, Buhddists. None of them are more right than any other cause a thought can't be wrong. A thought is a thing, it's a noun a thought is.

All of this has been on topic mind you, it's my thought process to get to my answer for this thread. If God is how I've heard him described by most Christians (since this thread unfortunately looks at this religion more than others) he would not care if people believed in him or not. Instead he'd hope people believed in what he stood for. If 200 years from now, two men are having an argument prompting one of these men to quote me, the other man then asks where he heard that. The first man can't remember and states he must have thought of it himself. Sure I didn't get recognition for my words, but I care more that he remembered the words themselves. The fact I said them is irrelevant in this context. If someone "finds" themselves without the help of god but comes to embody a lot of which God stands for than that in my opinion should be enough. And hopefully most Believers recognize that. Which leads me, finally, to my answer.

If I had all the evidence that God did not exist in the world I would neither burn it or publish it. Knowledge is power, and I'd use it to try and change peoples opinion ON Religion and God instead of IN Religion and God. You're simply naive if you do not admit that Religion has brought plenty of both "good" and "bad" things to this world. That's why I would not publish my evidence but instead use it to build a better religious understanding. Hopefully decreasing religious wars without destroying anyone’s faith.

Rich Boy Rob
March 17th, 2010, 01:36 PM
Assuming it was completely indisputable evidence, then yes I would publish. BUT I would do this under a fake name, NEVER appear in person and generally stay totally and completely anonymous. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure I would be hunted down and killed in cold blood by extreme believers in all deity based religions.

Assuming again that people accepted this proof (which many wouldn't) I think it would make the world generally a better place. Religious wars would stop, science could would no longer be held back by religious protesters and culture could finally move on from the sky gods we invented to explain the (previously) inexplicable.

Yusshin
March 18th, 2010, 07:46 PM
There is no need to publish, as any logical and intelligent person can work out for themselves that there is not a big guy watching our every move and going to welcome us to his cloudy afterlife when we die.

That's where your wrong. God isn't "some big guy on a cloud" as you atheists like to put it.

God could be a tree for all we know. He could be a particle, a black hole, a planet in itself... and yes, he could be a "big guy on a cloud", but it's not like you can physically search the skies and find God. He could be anything! Although it's disrespectful to draw pictures of Gods and His prophets, we can always imagine it.

You can't prove God exists; you can't prove God doesn't exist. I have faith, though, since God (the Judaism-Christian-Muslim God) has brought many good things to Earth, and it's the abuse of individuals and governments that have turned it rotten.

I'm not well-educated on other religions besides my own, that's why I specify the J-C-M God (they're the same God). I'm sure other religions have brought similar morals to their believers, though, unless they're satanists.

I wouldn't publish these findings frankly because I don't want to. The good in religion is what brought around our modern-day laws. It's had a phenominal, positive impact. If God had not said that adultery was a sin, and people had not believed so much in it, adultery would be permitted atm < just an example.

So no, I'd not publish it, because it'd be a stupid idea and such findings don't and never will exist.

IceSage
March 19th, 2010, 09:15 AM
If you had somehow managed to disprove the existance of God, would you publish your findings, or would you allow people to carry on believing?

It's probably been said in this topic before...

...But proof of a negative is not the way to go about things. I don't have to constantly need to prove every aspect of everything at every single moment for someone to believe me or not. However, when I wish for someone to believe a claim I have, I must present evidence.

Anyone who claims to believe in God or gods MUST present evidence for it. Solid, tangible, evidence. If you're making the claim, then the burden of proof is on YOU, not anyone else.

That is like saying, "If you could disprove the Invisibile Pink Unicorn or Flazargar of Rexarri 5, of the 11th dimension, then I'll believe they don't exist."

That's silly, you simply, under good knowledge based on your everyday observations... know that such things don't exist. Nobody needs to prove otherwise.

That's where your wrong. God isn't "some big guy on a cloud" as you atheists like to put it.

God could be a tree for all we know. He could be a particle, a black hole, a planet in itself... and yes, he could be a "big guy on a cloud", but it's not like you can physically search the skies and find God. He could be anything! Although it's disrespectful to draw pictures of Gods and His prophets, we can always imagine it.

Actually, it's described in the Christian bible exactly where God sits, and how heaven is like, and the beings that worship him. Read Revelations sometimes.

You can't prove God exists;

Then why would you even think that he does? If you have no real reason to believe something, why would you believe it?

you can't prove God doesn't exist. I have faith, though, since God (the Judaism-Christian-Muslim God) has brought many good things to Earth,

Wait, he has? I thought you said you couldn't prove he exists. So, how do you know he "brought many good things to Earth?"

and it's the abuse of individuals and governments that have turned it rotten.

I'm not well-educated on other religions besides my own,

Of course, because all those other religions according to you are wrong. Why study up on other religions and beliefs when you only believe your religion is right, true, and correct? Especially when not even reading any of what anyone else has to say. Here's a tip: Those other religions do the same thing. They believe they're right and that you're wrong... and they sometimes don't bother with your religion.

that's why I specify the J-C-M God (they're the same God). I'm sure other religions have brought similar morals to their believers, though, unless they're satanists.

Satanism comes from Christianity, just in case you had forgot. So, other religions bring such morals as "destroy all women and children" and their gods have cursed people with plagues, right? Such lovely morals.

I wouldn't publish these findings frankly because I don't want to. The good in religion is what brought around our modern-day laws.

Very little from religion has brought upon our modern day laws.

It's had a phenominal, positive impact.

Of course. The mass murders were quite fun.

If God had not said that adultery was a sin, and people had not believed so much in it, adultery would be permitted atm < just an example.

Adultery actually takes place in the bible many times... As well as in real life, and in many instances after.

So no, I'd not publish it, because it'd be a stupid idea and such findings don't and never will exist.

You got this part right.

Hybrid Trainer
March 19th, 2010, 11:02 AM
Probaly not,
because of all the religous extreamists in the world i would probably die after i told everyone.

Team Rocket's Raichu
March 19th, 2010, 01:04 PM
I do have evidence that (s)he doesn't exist. The fact that there is no evidence (s)he does exist. :D

Rich Boy Rob
March 19th, 2010, 02:27 PM
If God had not said that adultery was a sin, and people had not believed so much in it, adultery would be permitted atm < just an example.


Just thought I'd point out that adultery is common and permitted at the moment, because all adultery means is to have sex outside of wedlock. Just thought I'd point that out.

SIN1488
March 19th, 2010, 03:25 PM
Satanism comes from Christianity, just in case you had forgot. So, other religions bring such morals as "destroy all women and children" and their gods have cursed people with plagues, right? Such lovely morals.

I hope you're not claiming that satanism brings the "destroy all women and children" morals. I don't agree with satanists, but they aren't all "Worship teh devil and burn all teh chwistianszdxz!!111". If you've ever read the satanic commandments, or whatever they are called, some of them actually state something like: "Harm no animal or child." and "Harm no man, unless they harm you first.".

Also, I like the post about how nobody can possibly know what God really is, yet they call god a "him" and refer to "him" as "he". Why, I must ask you, would God be male? We are talking about the first consciousness in existence, the Grand Architect of the Universe, the Creator of all things....... and that God is supposedly a male? What purpose would there be in being a male when you've created everything??? You're not going to be reproducing anytime soon, I wouldn't think...... so why would the christian bible god be male? Is this just proof of lack of imagination that us humans have? Or proof that there is a design behind the bible to make men look superior, and if you defy this "superior image", you will be punished?

Oh well, I still say believe what you want, as long as it doesn't harm others and you at least try to do good for others. Because if you can do that with whatever your beliefs are, they must be good.

Timbjerr
March 19th, 2010, 03:34 PM
Also, I like the post about how nobody can possibly know what God really is, yet they call god a "him" and refer to "him" as "he". Why, I must ask you, would God be male? We are talking about the first consciousness in existence, the Grand Architect of the Universe, the Creator of all things....... and that God is supposedly a male? What purpose would there be in being a male when you've created everything??? You're not going to be reproducing anytime soon, I wouldn't think...... so why would the christian bible god be male? Is this just proof of lack of imagination that us humans have? Or proof that there is a design behind the bible to make men look superior, and if you defy this "superior image", you will be punished?

Oh well, I still say believe what you want, as long as it doesn't harm others and you at least try to do good for others. Because if you can do that with whatever your beliefs are, they must be good.

I always just assumed it was tradition. God is often described as genderless, but since there exists no gender-neutral pronouns, the writers of the bible had to assign God a gender, and we all know how gender biased the entire world was prior to the last two hundred years or so. XD

I do agree with that second paragraph though. We humans are stubborn animals, and once we reach mental maturity, nothing short of radical epiphanies or near-death experiences will change the way we look at life. Those of us who were raised to have faith in a higher being will continue to keep their faith even if the nonexistence of a God was proven...and vice versa with those who look at life as a random series of coincidences if the existence of God was proven. We will continuously justify our outlook on life until the day we die no matter how much scrutiny we face from it, so the best we can hope for is to understand where the people on the other side are coming from to prevent conflict. :P

Ineffable~
March 19th, 2010, 04:11 PM
I hope you're not claiming that satanism brings the "destroy all women and children" morals. I don't agree with satanists, but they aren't all "Worship teh devil and burn all teh chwistianszdxz!!111". If you've ever read the satanic commandments, or whatever they are called, some of them actually state something like: "Harm no animal or child." and "Harm no man, unless they harm you first.".
1. Do not give opinion or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
I actually really like some of these... o_o;

SIN1488
March 19th, 2010, 04:14 PM
The best is no. 9, methinks.

I really think God must have a sense of humor, I have for some time, but this really takes the cake. I just had 2 Mormons come to my door, not that long after posting the last reply.

:laugh:

Ineffable~
March 19th, 2010, 04:28 PM
The best is no. 9, methinks.
That one, we can call objectively just. Some of the others might be a little dubious, but really, none of them are bad. Satan also says you may keep your fetishes and guilty pleasures (presumably including sexuality, which is something we always see denied by organised religion), so long as you trust and worship him.
If you ask me, he seems like a more relaxed, less judgmental version of Iehova, if a little wrathful (which Iehova also is) and maybe more punishing of non-believers (although seriously, people are told under penalty to believe other religions as well, so lol?).
I actually like 3 and 4 too. I wouldn't follow 4 myself, but I think it's your own choice if you want to visit someone's house, so you should be nice to the person, even if it's a little dusty, or whatever. People clean up and put too many façades on for their guests.

Angela
March 26th, 2010, 05:30 PM
Interesting.. Hmm.. Very interesting indeed...

I would have to say yes.. I mean if I had the prove then why not? I mean not like there can be anything proved Until we make a time machine..., but if for some series of events I would stumble upon a prove Or make a time machine.. Mostly to rub it into the face of the stereotypical uber Christian that wants to follow the bible so hard that he forgets the purpose of it.. Treating others with respect, and yet they can act like that towards homosexuals and a lot of other things they claim in against god.. Mostly for that reason..

But yes I would publish my so called findings But keep the time machine to myself, the photographs of it should be able to convince people my findings are legit and non faked....


But there is one thing.. When you say God.. Do you mean like Buddha, Allah and every highest being in all religion? (Would I disprove like all god's, not just the dude named god)

SIN1488
March 26th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Treating others with respect, and yet they can act like that towards homosexuals and a lot of other things they claim in against god.. Mostly for that reason..


But there is one thing.. When you say God.. Do you mean like Buddha, Allah and every highest being in all religion? (Would I disprove like all god's, not just the dude named god)

That's why I don't really have a religion, almost all of them are against such small things that don't affect a person in the kind of way they are thinking. As you were kind of getting at, a person's sexuality has nothing to do with being a good person or not.

And I think the OP meant God as in any god. Personally I believe they are all different forms or interpretations of the same God, but that's just my opinion.

I learned something interesting today though. Hinduists believe that the Creator made the four elements from one which I think was basically called space. They believe that the Creator made these elements in turn, as in one was created from the last. I believe a similar idea myself on how the universe formed, and it can make sense whether you believe in God or not, it all has to do with the 4 states of matter represented by the elements.

Anyway, I'm going way off topic lol. So let me rethink the OP's question. I don't think I would publish the findings myself, but it might not be a bad idea. Think about it, we had all those ideas of mythical gods in the past until we had the knowledge to disprove them. Then we just developed different religions, with a better idea of god. So imagine if all of today's religions were abolished...... What kind of religion(s) would that create?

Yoshimi
March 26th, 2010, 05:53 PM
You can't prove God exists; you can't prove God doesn't exist. I have faith, though, since God (the Judaism-Christian-Muslim God) has brought many good things to Earth, and it's the abuse of individuals and governments that have turned it rotten.
Cool story bro, but I don't think you would be safe around a person who has faith in magical leprechauns that tell them to murder.

I'm not well-educated on other religions besides my own, that's why I specify the J-C-M God (they're the same God). I'm sure other religions have brought similar morals to their believers, though, unless they're satanists.
That's awfully nice. I'm no Satanist, but maybe you should actually learn about the religion before saying things about it.

I wouldn't publish these findings frankly because I don't want to. The good in religion is what brought around our modern-day laws.
The key word there is had. The fact(I'm using the term loosely) that religion brought something good doesn't mean it needs to stay. Sharia law is thought to have founded inalienable rights, but that doesn't mean it should stay.

It's had a phenominal, positive impact.
That's debatable; there are many negative impacts that I can point out.

If God had not said that adultery was a sin, and people had not believed so much in it, adultery would be permitted atm < just an example.
That's a terrible example:[
People of all religions still commit adultery, it's just human nature.

Human
March 26th, 2010, 07:48 PM
I'm an atheist, but I wouldn't. Real or not, too many people rely on religion to get them through life, and I wouldn't want to take that away from them regardless of whether I agree with their actions.

Reina
March 26th, 2010, 09:07 PM
I wouldn't publish it simply because faith in a greater being, whether s/he exists or not, instills a certain conscience in people which they wouldn't be able to obtain otherwise.

Objection!
March 26th, 2010, 09:25 PM
There is no need to publish, as any logical and intelligent person can work out for themselves that there is not a big guy watching our every move and going to welcome us to his cloudy afterlife when we die.

God doesn't exist. Ok?

You sir, have just dropped several pegs in my eyes.

There are millions of "logical and intellligent" people out there who believe in their religion with all their hearts. You scoffing at their beliefs is insulting.

On Topic: I wouldn't post my information, because proving the Judaism-Christian-Muslim God doesn't exist (Because I am assuming that's the one you're referring to) would require proving another religion's did.

This could cause anarchy, and wouldn't do a drop of good. There are, like some posters have already stated, people who go through life hanging on only their beliefs. This discovery could crush those people.

But really, where would you aquire such information? This question seem slightly ridiculous.

Callandor
March 26th, 2010, 10:55 PM
It seems that it would basicly end up like this. No one but the athiests would belive you, and you would be hunted by all the religous freaks, that refuse to belive you. So basicly not much would change. And one of my friends is christian (i forget what kind), and i belive in evolution (i don't consider me an atheist), so we kind of have an unspoken agreement that we won't say, out rightly, the others belief is wrong.

And I wouldn't, if you couldn't tell.

Yamikarasu
March 27th, 2010, 09:37 AM
In my opinion, if I had proof that God didn't exist it would be the moral thing to do to tell people about it. I'm sure a lot of agnostics and otherwise skeptical/not super religious people would believe me, so that's probably half the population of the world right there. All the fundamentalists would just say that it's just Satan trying to test their faiths, or something similar, so there's no point in trying to convince them. :/

Aureol
March 27th, 2010, 04:44 PM
If I hypothetically found this evidence, I would give the evidence to my closest atheist friend and proceed to commit suicide.

Sneeze
March 27th, 2010, 04:46 PM
I'd post it on 4chan and let nature take its course.

.little monster
March 27th, 2010, 06:06 PM
If I hypothetically found this evidence, I would give the evidence to my closest atheist friend and proceed to commit suicide.
That's rather pathetic.

:|

Actually, it's just pure pathetic.

Aureol
March 27th, 2010, 06:32 PM
That's rather pathetic.

:|

Actually, it's just pure pathetic.

Eh, life isn't so sweet for me that I'm willing to live for something that'll eventually end. It's like reading a mediocre book that I will forget promptly when I finish it: pointless. There may be parts that I will enjoy along the way, but there are too many difficulties in life for me to live it just for the sake of living. I'm young enough to where nobody relies on me, so it'd ultimately only affect me (although my family may be upset by it).

There are many factors that would cause me to stay alive:
-If people depended on me, I'd live, but right now I'm not necessary to anyone's wellbeing (yes, I'm a major loner IRL).
-If life was extremely easy, I'd live it, because it'd be fun to live. Life is too cruel to live without a purpose: take in deaths, hunger, illness, work and the knowledge that it all ultimately ends, taking any value from enduring such hardships.
-The only real reason I'm staying alive in this world is my belief that I have work here to do from God. If I was raised an atheist, trust me, I would've committed suicide when I graduated a year ago.

Call it pathetic, but as far as I see it, without a higher purpose, I'm just wasting other people's resources. Obviously, others have different opinions on life (you, I assume, since you disagree with me), but that's my view on an existence without a supreme being.

Flipnotic
March 27th, 2010, 10:14 PM
There is no need to publish, as any logical and intelligent person can work out for themselves that there is not a big guy watching our every move and going to welcome us to his cloudy afterlife when we die.

God doesn't exist. Ok?

agreed..
couldn't have said it any better LOL

Sneeze
March 28th, 2010, 06:31 AM
I don't see how so many people can say there DEFIANTLY is no god, surely that requires just as much faith and belief as people who say there defiantly is a god? Either way you're being blind towards the other side of the argument.

And yes, if you hadn't guessed I'm agnostic.

Zeph.
March 28th, 2010, 09:58 AM
I don't see how so many people can say there DEFIANTLY is no god, surely that requires just as much faith and belief as people who say there defiantly is a god? Either way you're being blind towards the other side of the argument.

And yes, if you hadn't guessed I'm agnostic.

True, but the vast majority of people don't deliberately abuse and haggle people telling them there is no God: they simply live without believing.

And on a further note: maybe you should spell your capitalised words correctly ;)

Yuukihime
March 28th, 2010, 12:33 PM
I don't think I would. Disproving religion is impossible, because as long as people still believe in it then those findings would be useless. :/ There will always be people who believe in things disproven or not.

(Sorry for any typos. My keyboard is being wacky.)

twocows
March 28th, 2010, 12:55 PM
I don't see how so many people can say there DEFIANTLY is no god, surely that requires just as much faith and belief as people who say there defiantly is a god? Either way you're being blind towards the other side of the argument.

And yes, if you hadn't guessed I'm agnostic.
I don't see how so many people can say there DEFINITELY is no Flying Spaghetti Monster, surely that requires just as much faith and belief as people who say there definitely is a Flying Spaghetti Monster? Either way you're being blind toward the other side of the argument.

I'm fine with people believing whatever they want to believe, but if you ask me why I'm atheist, I'll be happy to tell you. If someone suggests a theory that contradicts standard logic, the burden of proof rests on them. If someone drops a ball and says "magic is pulling it down," his or her position violates very basic laws of physics. He or she must provide very compelling evidence for his or her position to even be considered, let alone accepted. I do not need to disprove a theory (especially one that I don't see any logic in), rather the proponents of the theory need to provide evidence that their theory is reasonable. If I see a guy walking down the street shouting nonsense and banging his head on the wall, I do not need to prove that he is insane for that position to be accepted, but he does need to prove that he isn't for the converse to be accepted.

Zeph.
March 28th, 2010, 01:34 PM
^ You are awesome :D

I don't think we can disprove it with a click of our fingers. The main reason being - religion is slowly being disproven more and more.

Time and time again, what Religion has told us has been proven false by our ability to understand our world better. Cenuries ago, humanity believed there was a place above called heaven, and an abyss below called hell. Years later, we discover that the earth is infact round and is floating through space. We discover the bones and fossils of prehistoric creatures that the bible fails to mention. You see what I'm getting at here? Science continues to disprove religion.

The main problem in trying to do so, however, is that religion is so old. So old that it has become second nature to millions of us around the world who accept it because that's just how it has been for centuries.

So to sum up - we are already disproving religion, bit by bit.

Yuukihime
March 28th, 2010, 03:46 PM
^ You are awesome :D

I don't think we can disprove it with a click of our fingers. The main reason being - religion is slowly being disproven more and more.

Time and time again, what Religion has told us has been proven false by our ability to understand our world better. Cenuries ago, humanity believed there was a place above called heaven, and an abyss below called hell. Years later, we discover that the earth is infact round and is floating through space. We discover the bones and fossils of prehistoric creatures that the bible fails to mention. You see what I'm getting at here? Science continues to disprove religion.

The main problem in trying to do so, however, is that religion is so old. So old that it has become second nature to millions of us around the world who accept it because that's just how it has been for centuries.

So to sum up - we are already disproving religion, bit by bit.

I don't think we can disprove religion altogether. While it is true that we did discover earth is round and IS floating through space that doesn't mean Heaven and Hell don't exist to some degree. heaven and Hell have been more of a spiritual matter. A place for souls to go after they die. It doesn't have a physical form here on earth. And how can we prove disprove these don't exist? Can a scientist go die come back and say there is no heaven or hell? :O

Discovering bones and fossils of animals that were never mentioned in the Bible? I don't read the Bible a whole lot but to some of the chapters I have read they don't go into deal Job taming a Tyranosaurs Rex xD.

I'm going to quote what my friend says on the matter. Word for Word this is what she said.

Dyanna the Kitsune says:
science EXPLAINS religion....religion says what,...science says how.

^
|

I think this, to some degree could actually be true. Am I denying the big bang ever happened? No. But I do think there is a higher being controlling everything because I highly doubt that everything happened by chance. The fact that we landed in exactly the right place away from the sun to have the ability to grow life per random chance? The chances of that happening are over 1 in quintillion.

And before people start ragging me saying I'm crazy, I'm not saying science could totally disprove religion altogether but to some degree science can logically explain many of the events that happen in religion. ;<

I have my own religious beliefs but not a set religion. So I am still open to the idea that each religion and even science could hold a bit of truth to them. I honestly don't think there is one set truth for things like this. :>

TheUltimateSacrifice
March 28th, 2010, 11:13 PM
No; ignorance is bliss - as is evident by a staggering amount of posts in this thread.

ILoveDragonite
March 28th, 2010, 11:15 PM
No, i'm not a fan of mass chaos.

Timbjerr
March 29th, 2010, 03:15 AM
since this thread has kinda evolved onto the topic, I agree with yuukihime. I don't think science disproves religion as a whole. It may disprove many of the minor metaphors found throughout the Bible, but there has been no explanation for how life came to exist other than "a long string of coincidences." The purpose of a religion isn't to belive mythology as hard fact but rather to have faith in whatever higher powers exist.

I heard a quote a while back...I think it was attributed to Galileo, but I could be wrong..."Science is not the quest to overthrow God, but rather the quest to fully understand Him."

twocows
March 29th, 2010, 06:56 AM
I don't think we can disprove religion altogether. While it is true that we did discover earth is round and IS floating through space that doesn't mean Heaven and Hell don't exist to some degree. heaven and Hell have been more of a spiritual matter. A place for souls to go after they die. It doesn't have a physical form here on earth. And how can we prove disprove these don't exist? Can a scientist go die come back and say there is no heaven or hell? :O

Discovering bones and fossils of animals that were never mentioned in the Bible? I don't read the Bible a whole lot but to some of the chapters I have read they don't go into deal Job taming a Tyranosaurs Rex xD.

I'm going to quote what my friend says on the matter. Word for Word this is what she said.

Dyanna the Kitsune says:
science EXPLAINS religion....religion says what,...science says how.

^
|

I think this, to some degree could actually be true. Am I denying the big bang ever happened? No. But I do think there is a higher being controlling everything because I highly doubt that everything happened by chance. The fact that we landed in exactly the right place away from the sun to have the ability to grow life per random chance? The chances of that happening are over 1 in quintillion.

And before people start ragging me saying I'm crazy, I'm not saying science could totally disprove religion altogether but to some degree science can logically explain many of the events that happen in religion. ;<

I have my own religious beliefs but not a set religion. So I am still open to the idea that each religion and even science could hold a bit of truth to them. I honestly don't think there is one set truth for things like this. :>
Of course you can't "disprove" religion; that statement is more or less irrelevant. If I say "I am omnipotent, but I choose not to use it so as to let mankind take its course," you can't disprove that either, but do you really need to? As a theory, I don't really think religion holds most ground, but it's something a lot of people find very important. I'm not about to go out and say we should get rid of something that brings people together and motivates them to do good. People have done great things in the name of religion; many charity and rescue organizations are also religious organizations, or at least formed by religious people. I highly doubt the peoples' lives they affect really care what motivated them to do it. In the end, most religious people don't need or want proof anyway, either for or against. Most religions have some sort of tenant about faith, and it wouldn't exactly be faith if you had proof.

Sneeze
March 29th, 2010, 07:09 AM
And on a further note: maybe you should spell your capitalised words correctly ;)

Oops.. :embarrass >.< My bad. Lol.

I don't see how so many people can say there DEFINITELY is no Flying Spaghetti Monster, surely that requires just as much faith and belief as people who say there definitely is a Flying Spaghetti Monster? Either way you're being blind toward the other side of the argument.

I'm fine with people believing whatever they want to believe, but if you ask me why I'm atheist, I'll be happy to tell you. If someone suggests a theory that contradicts standard logic, the burden of proof rests on them. If someone drops a ball and says "magic is pulling it down," his or her position violates very basic laws of physics. He or she must provide very compelling evidence for his or her position to even be considered, let alone accepted. I do not need to disprove a theory (especially one that I don't see any logic in), rather the proponents of the theory need to provide evidence that their theory is reasonable. If I see a guy walking down the street shouting nonsense and banging his head on the wall, I do not need to prove that he is insane for that position to be accepted, but he does need to prove that he isn't for the converse to be accepted.

Fair point, but, just as there's no proof there isn't a god, there's no proof there is so until some evidence crops up pointing either way I won't make a this or that decision. Just my two cents is all.

sgspacemonkey
March 29th, 2010, 07:14 AM
I don’t know if I’d announce it or not. I don’t know if I believe in God or not – I guess I’d like to but there’s a logical voice in my head telling me I can’t. I think I just want to believe because it makes certain aspects of life easier to take on - even though I’m mostly not comfortable around religion, I can understand its uses for bringing hope to people. For that reason you could argue it being a bad idea to disprove the existence of God. Ignorance can be bliss after all.
On the other hand, religion causes way too many debates, which I would quite happily see the back of. There are too many extremists out there and I’m tired of having my interests ripped to shreds just because they can’t handle people seeing things in a different light. (For example, disapproving Avatar just because it has nature worship in it is a little bit touchy.)
I don’t sit around thinking about these things anyway, there’s no proof either way, I’d just prefer not to address the issue and to simply get on with life...

bendrawslife
March 29th, 2010, 10:16 AM
It is logically impossible to disprove the existence of anything. To make it easier, try imagining disproving the existence of dragons. They could exist anywhere in the universe at any point in time. We can't be everywhere at once, and they could defy our sensory perception in some manner that makes them unavailable to us.
I'm probably putting way too much thought into this, but to answer the question:
If I could, I probably would, but nobody that has faith would believe it anyway. That's kind of the point of religion. To have faith in something, doesn't matter what it really is. Why do you think there are so many different gods that people believe in? It's not because people have any actual evidence of their existence, it's because some people "need" them.