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View Full Version : Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Accented Teachers Can No Longer Teach English


Netto Azure
April 30th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Arizona Legislature Passes Bill Banning Ethnic Studies Programs (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/30/arizona-legislature-passes-banning-ethnic-studies-programs/)


After making national headlines for a new law on illegal immigrants, the Arizona Legislature passed a bill Thursday that would ban ethnic studies programs in the state that critics say currently advocate separatism and racial preferences.
The bill, which passed 32-26 in the state House, had been approved by the Senate a day earlier. It now goes to Gov. Jan Brewer for her signature.
The new bill would make it illegal for a school district to teach any courses that promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, promote resentment of a particular race or class of people, are designed primarily for students of a particular ethnic group or "advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals."

So yeah, I really do not see how studying about other cultures diminishes "individualism" >___>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/arizona-ethnic-studies-cl_n_558731.html


Meanwhile, in a move that was more covert until the Wall Street Journal uncovered it (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572504575213883276427528.html), the Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English classes.

So what constitutes this. Is there some sort of "Accent" test that I haven't heard of before? :/

Yusshin
April 30th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Though the accent thing I understand (since students might start pronouncing things wrong), the other law I don't. I don't know any course that would teacher overthrowing the government. Even then, saying that you can't teach a certain class because the government would be at risk or the government doesn't like it is a dictatorship. I'm not saying that it's correct to tell students to overthrow the government, but if someone wants to comment that the government is corrupt, then so be it. As long as they don't go into details about "Let's dig a hole and get'em from behind, hold everyone hostage, and demand monarchy."

>> 'kay, that's a bit extreme. I hope you understand what I mean though!

I have a class at school designed specifically for the aboriginals of the area. No one but them can take the course, since it's their language course. I took it a bit in primary school since I have some native blood in me, but that would mean that if this law passed for my city specifically, those people wouldn't get taught their language at school. That's not very nice at all :|

[Edit]

Apparently the law doesn't prohibit the teaching of Native American stuff. I don't know if that applies in the above example, though? I don't quite understand that part XD

FaithInMe
April 30th, 2010, 03:22 PM
I dont know how an ethnic studies subject wouldnt promote racial tolerance?
How they figure its going the opposite direction I have no idea.
I really dont understand your american government, ever.

RuRuBell
April 30th, 2010, 03:56 PM
So learning about different ethnicities promotes racism?

Well, I guess I can understand the situation on English teachers...somewhat. I had a French lesson with a Sengalese teacher, and his accent was so heavy that I couldn't understand him. He didn't speak English either, so when I wanted to clarify what a word meant in relation to French and English, he's stare at me blankly.

If you're going to teach the language, you should be able to speak it clearly.

Jordan
April 30th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Ideologically, I disagree with both of these plans since I find them to be rather discriminatory in different ways. But realistically, it's probably for the benefit of the heavily accented teachers to not teach English. Let's face it: kids are brutal when they speak their real opinions. Even when they're not teaching English, but subjects like Math and Sciences, teachers with accents will be made fun of regardless and it'll only distract from the learning itself.

As for the ban on ethnic classes, they're not going to ban studies of other cultures indefinitely unlike the title implies. If that were to be the case, then that means courses like World History and American History would have to say goodbye too. The programs that will be banned are just ones that would promote racial solidarity, in other words a sense superiority and accomplishment. I'm fine with people having pride in their cultures and what not, but surely promoting superiority in a school environment isn't something to be supporting. Studies in school should be objective when it's about the facts. :/

.Gamer
April 30th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Hahahaha. Arizona's governer is such a troll.


This is ridiculous...

Esper
April 30th, 2010, 08:13 PM
Arizona is certainly holding the idiot ball this month. "Heavy" and "ungrammatical" are almost as bad as "looks like an illegal immigrant". But I digress...

Well, I guess I can understand the situation on English teachers...somewhat. I had a French lesson with a Sengalese teacher, and his accent was so heavy that I couldn't understand him. He didn't speak English either, so when I wanted to clarify what a word meant in relation to French and English, he's stare at me blankly.
Senegal is a French speaking country so I don't see what the problem was other than that you go to an English speaking school (I'm assuming) and your teacher didn't speak English.

I took a kind of women's studies class in HS and I learned a lot of things I didn't even hear about from my regular history and social studies classes. Even though it didn't relate directly to ethnic studies I imagine whatever classes this law is supposed to stop would also teach you things you wouldn't learn from the standard classes. Combine this with what Texas did earlier this year and ugh... I don't even want to think of it.

RuRuBell
April 30th, 2010, 08:48 PM
It was his accent I had trouble with. I'm so used to have Anglophone teachers speak French that I even have trouble with a lot of people who speak French here. They speak very quickly and with a distcint accent that I'm not used to, so I have a hard time understanding it.

Trap-Eds
April 30th, 2010, 09:30 PM
The new bill would make it illegal for a school district to teach any courses that promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, promote resentment of a particular race or class of people, are designed primarily for students of a particular ethnic group or "advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals."

...O-kay, since when was it bad to teach kids about their culture? And what school district in its (their?) right mind would have classes that teach kids to overrun the government? Who comes up with this stuff?!?


State Superintendent for Public Instruction Tom Horne called passage in the state House a victory for the principle that education should unite, not divide students of differing backgrounds.
Horne began fighting in 2007 against the Tucson Unified School District's program, which he said defied Martin Luther King's call to judge a person by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Horne claimed the ethnic studies program encourages "ethnic chauvanism," promotes Latinos to rise up and create a new territory out of the southwestern region of the United States and tries to intimidate conservative teachers in the school system.


That...makes absolutely no sense to me. So, you teach a Latino American about his/her culture and all of a sudden he/she's gonna overrun the government?

Cassino
April 30th, 2010, 10:39 PM
Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned
Bad.
With the prevention of discussing things that might promote overthrow of the government and 'ethnic solidarity' over 'individualism', I can see where this is going. The US seems to me to be alienating itself from the very ideals it founded itself upon, and has already been doing this for some time.

Accented Teachers Can No Longer Teach English
Good.
It's a matter of practicality, not racial discrimination. I don't demand my English teacher be white, but he should have by all means grown up in this country and have a native accent, that way I can actually understand him the first time.

.Gamer
May 1st, 2010, 06:44 AM
Good.
It's a matter of practicality, not racial discrimination. I don't demand my English teacher be white, but he should have by all means grown up in this country and have a native accent, that way I can actually understand him the first time.

http://www.displaysforschools.com/images/kkk2.jpg

They thought the same thing. Having an accent doesn't affect how you learn. I had to learn math from a guy with a heavy Polish (or something) accent. It actually made me pay attention in class because I had to make sure I knew what he was saying. BFD if he has an accent, its not his fault.

Rich Boy Rob
May 1st, 2010, 12:59 PM
Meanwhile, in a move that was more covert until the Wall Street Journal uncovered it, the Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English classes.



So what constitutes this. Is there some sort of "Accent" test that I haven't heard of before? :/



But surely an American accent is a heavy/ungrammatical accent? I mean true Queens English is totally different (grammar and spelling) to a heavy American accent. If they introduced that here in the UK, no one outside of the upper-middle class East Anglians would be aloud to teach, due to the array of accents here,

Captain Hobo.
May 1st, 2010, 01:47 PM
That is stupied why in the world would you do that.

Narcissus Secret
May 1st, 2010, 02:34 PM
I disagree with both things.

Ban of Ethnic Classes:
I agree with certain parts of this(at least how they worded it) and yet disagree with others. For instance... teaching a class that will bring up thoughts to overthrow the government... is bad. Yeah... there really shouldn't be a class about that. But.. if they just mean learning about other cultures and their beliefs(thus discouraging you from following some US Govt. ideals..) should be perfectly fine. I mean... it is really up to the individual how far they take things.

Accented English Teachers
As far as I am concerned, that is discrimination... which is against the law. The only way they should be able to deny a teacher that because of their accent/dialect is if they talk like Boomhauer from KoTH. In which case.. they wouldn't even get passed the interview. I am guessing that this is mainly to cut back from immigrants working our jobs.. but it will also stop certain non-immigrants (i.e. people with speech impediments) from getting the job. So.. yeah.

Zameric
May 1st, 2010, 09:07 PM
I disagree with both things.

Ban of Ethnic Classes:
I agree with certain parts of this(at least how they worded it) and yet disagree with others. For instance... teaching a class that will bring up thoughts to overthrow the government... is bad. Yeah... there really shouldn't be a class about that. But.. if they just mean learning about other cultures and their beliefs(thus discouraging you from following some US Govt. ideals..) should be perfectly fine. I mean... it is really up to the individual how far they take things.
No, these classes were just an anti-American and racial supremacy indoctrination technique. They were taught in one of the more liberal parts of Arizona by radical democrats. They just say it was a cultural studies class to cover their own butts. And actually they were teaching this to middle and high school students that are most likely forced to take these classes or else they would get in trouble with the school.

Accented English Teachers
As far as I am concerned, that is discrimination... which is against the law. The only way they should be able to deny a teacher that because of their accent/dialect is if they talk like Boomhauer from KoTH. In which case.. they wouldn't even get passed the interview. I am guessing that this is mainly to cut back from immigrants working our jobs.. but it will also stop certain non-immigrants (i.e. people with speech impediments) from getting the job. So.. yeah.
This must have a pretty covert bill since I don't remember hearing about it. So I don't know the extent this "accent profiling" was implemented to. But I'm sure it was mostly like only done in situations where the teacher's native/first language was probably something other than English, which would have affected their accent when speaking English. I can understand why they would do this, and I would agree with it to a certain extent. But I really don't know how it was implemented, so I can't say for sure.

http://www.displaysforschools.com/images/kkk2.jpg

They thought the same thing. Having an accent doesn't affect how you learn. I had to learn math from a guy with a heavy Polish (or something) accent. It actually made me pay attention in class because I had to make sure I knew what he was saying. BFD if he has an accent, its not his fault.
You know, I'm surprised not a single person from Arizona has posted in this before me. I don't even know what state you come from. Learning math and learning a language are two completely different things. Just because we want our kids to learn proper English, doesn't make us KKK.

.Gamer
May 1st, 2010, 09:54 PM
How is the English any more proper because someone without an accent is teaching it? If you know the language who gives a rats ass who its taught by?

Rich Boy Rob
May 2nd, 2010, 12:13 AM
You know, I'm surprised not a single person from Arizona has posted in this before me. I don't even know what state you come from. Learning math and learning a language are two completely different things. Just because we want our kids to learn proper English, doesn't make us KKK.

Again I say, if you wanted them to learn proper English, you'd have to sack all English teachers in America and only hire people who speak perfect Queens English. That's not gonna happen.

Cassino
May 2nd, 2010, 12:49 AM
How is the English any more proper because someone without an accent is teaching it? If you know the language who gives a rats ass who its taught by?
People in X country will have X accent because people around them speak like that.
As per your second question, the point of English is, and it should be needless to say, to teach the language. Best not assume everyone already knows it, or has any reasonable skill with it. Of course by secondary school level it's not really going to make any odds, but for prepubescents it might.

And yes, 'might' is all I can say. This is why I didn't come with a mind to argue earlier and still don't, but I will say that neither side of this is going to go in anyone's favour unless one side picks up on some proof, and I doubt there have been any studies on 'effects of teacher accent on learning', but if there have, be my guest.

So, nothing, why did I make my post... When I said 'actually understand the first time' earlier, it's just in my experience that heavily-accented teachers, and people in general, are hampering to the progress of actions, understand, whatever. Indeed it's not their fault, nor may your own experiences bear any correlation to mine, but 'to be on the safe side' I simply feel it would be more efficient for the good of society if they didn't have 'English teacher' of all jobs. If you don't feel that way, fine, but you're not going to change my opinion by simply stating your own.

Again I say, if you wanted them to learn proper English, you'd have to sack all English teachers in America and only hire people who speak perfect Queens English. That's not gonna happen.
Haha what. No, the thinking is that if you're born in America, you should get a American teacher; if you're born in Australia, you should get an Australian teacher; England, English teacher; Scotland, Scottish teacher. So on so forth.

.Gamer
May 2nd, 2010, 07:24 AM
People adopt an accent based on their peers not their teachers. As long as the teacher is qualified to teach the language at hand I don't see a problem with an accent.

Zameric
May 2nd, 2010, 09:49 AM
How is the English any more proper because someone without an accent is teaching it? If you know the language who gives a rats ass who its taught by?
People adopt an accent based on their peers not their teachers. As long as the teacher is qualified to teach the language at hand I don't see a problem with an accent.
Because there is a certain proper English accent for each English speaking nation. You wouldn't want American students to adopt a foreign accent of the language they are supposed to be learning. While they do learn some of it from their peers, it starts with the teacher and that's also where student get the majority of it.

Again I say, if you wanted them to learn proper English, you'd have to sack all English teachers in America and only hire people who speak perfect Queens English. That's not gonna happen.
You know, I feel English people who say that are a bit full of themselves, and I even have a few English friends that say that too. Each English speaking country has it's own proper regional accent. A teacher is supposed to use the right accent when they are teaching the language in a certain country.

Trap-Eds
May 2nd, 2010, 10:23 AM
You know, I'm surprised not a single person from Arizona has posted in this before me.

Umm...I'm from AZ. Then again, I don't pay attention to politics much...

Because there is a certain proper English accent for each English speaking nation. You wouldn't want American students to adopt a foreign accent of the language they are supposed to be learning. While they do learn some of it from their peers, it starts with the teacher and that's also where student get the majority of it.


But why though? As long as the people learning the English can understand it enough to use it on their own, then what's the propblem? This country is chock full of different accents as well! What exactly is the "american" accent?

InMooseWeTrust
May 2nd, 2010, 11:18 AM
The accepted proper American English is the accent of the southeastern midwest. Only a few million people speak it, out of the 310+ million people we have now. We're the third largest country in the world, so differences in accents are an obvious given, and there can't be a one size fits all narrow, standard language for that many people. If my parents teach me Bengali and all my peers have a stereotypical Philadelphia suburbs accent, then which one will I speak? "Proper" Bengali, or an anglicized version? I can talk like a native Bengali speaker, but I know people who can speak Bengali better than I can but only with an anglicized accent. It's not a big deal because you'll pick up the accents of the people around you. The accent you have is also not set in stone. There are several thousand sounds you can make with your mouth, but most people use less than a hundred, so they have the same accent in every language. I'm learning French, and while I started out with an anglicized accent, it's slowly becoming a mixture of Parisien and Québécois. That's only because I've been talking to native speakers recently, while before I only had access to teachers in American schools. I'm jumping right to a natural accent in Russian by only practicing with native speakers who actually live in Russia.

I'm what most people would consider cultured (speak three languages really well, learning several more, Skypeing with people around the world, learning how to sing Russian folk songs, etc.), but even I have to agree that the culture studies classes in American schools are BS. You don't really learn anything from them except the white man is the devil and everyone else is awesome. If you really want to promote cultures, you're better off making all of your students have long term pen pals in at least three different continents. That would do a lot more than any culture studies class.

B3i
May 2nd, 2010, 11:25 AM
Ethnic Classes Banned?
-People will be lost without their culture
-Parents will get pissed off.

Accented teachers can't teach English?
-Everyone has an accent -.-
-Like said above, accents help us concentrate
-The governor is racist (or making a brutal attempt to stop racism), no doubt.