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Forever
May 7th, 2010, 06:11 AM
Do you think everyone on earth is equal, no matter what race, religion, sexuality, disability or gender, etc? Why or why not?

Should we all have equal rights too?

Captain Fabio
May 7th, 2010, 06:12 AM
No.
We all look different for a reason.

Volroc
May 7th, 2010, 06:14 AM
Equality is pointless, its unity we need

everyone has uniqueness which makes everyone different, everyone should get equal treatment, but no one is "equal"

poopnoodle
May 7th, 2010, 06:17 AM
race: no, thats why they call it "race." it's a competition.
religion: yes, clearly anyone with a religion is delusional and autistic.
gender: no, womans only strength lies in the kitchen.

Gold warehouse
May 7th, 2010, 06:21 AM
People should be seen as equal regardless of their race, sexuality or gender. None of these things make a difference on what gives someone their personality and abilities.

It's harder with people that have disabilities, because they are restricted in what they can and can't do, there couldn't be a president with a severe mental disability could there? I don't see it as discrimination if people are denied particular jobs because of a disability, but it really depends on what disability that is. They can't be treated entirely equally in every situation because they don't have equal capabilities.

Many religions actually support the idea that everyone is not equal

Jolene
May 7th, 2010, 06:27 AM
Yes, but I am more equal than you.

Volroc
May 7th, 2010, 06:32 AM
this is gonna turn into a flamefest, look at the arrogant asses already -_-"

Gary, the Magic Fairy
May 7th, 2010, 06:38 AM
Honestly, I'd say we're not equal. Look at those starving people in Africa. No offense to anyone, but they're basically like monkeys. Well, actually, monkeys work better to find food and stuff, so... :x It's not about their race, they just don't seem to function well. I mean it's not like a "LOLOL BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS IMPORTANT THAN WHITE PEOPLE" thing, I mean, look at Bill Cosby.

Disability obviously makes someone unequal. I mean, a brain-dead person is obviously less able to do stuff than a normal person.

I dunno. I'm gonna stop now before I get into trouble, I'm sure people will take this all the wrong way and be offended >__>

Code
May 7th, 2010, 06:42 AM
No matter gender, color or religion. Everybody has equal rights, but disabled people need more. They're conditions vary so much that it's not good enough to just give all of them the normal rights. They need more special rights. This is not discrimination. It's just that "Disabled" is such a vague description of a condition. An Autistic child and a person in a wheelchair can both be seen as disabled, but they're rights for help and treatment should be different.
I am not trying to offend anyone.

Aureol
May 7th, 2010, 07:30 AM
We are equal but different on several things, and we are unequal on a few things. There are very few qualities in the human being that are absolutely inconsequential. No two people are the exact same, thus they should not be treated the exact same.

Things that are equal but different:
-Gender, race (shouldn't matter, but right now it does), other natural attributes that DO make a difference in the way people view us. Men and women are different, so they deserve to be treated differently, but they are both equal.

Things that should be treated unequally:
-Disabilities, choices we make in life such as religion and weight (to an extent), etc. As far as the disabilities go, we should give them greater treatment but also prohibit them from doing things they obviously cannot do and maybe even some things they COULD do only with great difficulty. Choices are things we can control, so we should be responsible for them and not expect equal treatment. For most of these choices, there are privileges some choices deserve, and there are choices that should lose some opportunities.

Virtually inconsequential attributes:
-Hair color, eye color, things that only very obscure people would freak out over. There is no reason why a blonde should be able to drive and a brunette shouldn't...

Everyone should be allowed the basic rights of life, property, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but anything beyond that is not a human right, thus up to debate and study to see who needs additional privileges and who doesn't. It's not a human right that we have a fire-station, but we have decided that it is for everyone's benefit to have such a station, and we also decided that nobody deserves its service more than anyone else. Driving is not a right: it's a privilege, and some people should not be allowed to drive.

Jesus oƒ Suburbia
May 7th, 2010, 07:32 AM
Symmetrically yes.
Well except the ones born with physical biological disorders.

Everyone else is rated.
Some over-rated others under-rated.
We're living in the wh*re house of comparison~

Bluerang1
May 7th, 2010, 08:16 AM
I was thinking about this and no. I wish we were though. But some have more than others, and more power so we're not all equal :(

Åzurε
May 7th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Do you think everyone on earth is equal, no matter what race, religion, sexuality, disability or gender, etc? Why or why not?

Should we all have equal rights too?

Race, religion, sexuality, gender, yes. In an ideal world, there's no reason for them to be treated better or worse than anybody else. They are each their own people, and unless their religious practices involve harming themselves or others, or something like that, I don't really have an issue with it.

People with certain disabilities should be treated differently, of course. Each according to their needs.

Timbjerr
May 7th, 2010, 08:39 AM
Do you think everyone on earth is equal, no matter what race, religion, sexuality, disability or gender, etc? Why or why not?

Should we all have equal rights too?

Everyone is pretty much equal in regards to race, religion, sexuality, disability, and gender nowadays.

It's wealth vs. poverty that's fueling the intolerance machine nowadays.

Eternal Nightmare
May 7th, 2010, 09:15 AM
No we are not equal. There is always going to be some sort of discrimantion some where especially in the job industry. For example secrutaries. How many male secrutaries have you seen?

Yes true we all have equal rights but still we are not equal in many ways and have along way to go untill we obtain said "equality". Ok thank you good bye.

Throat
May 7th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Everyone must have the same rights, now go and survive.

Porygon-Z
May 7th, 2010, 09:40 AM
race: no, thats why they call it "race." it's a competition.
religion: yes, clearly anyone with a religion is delusional and autistic.
gender: no, womans only strength lies in the kitchen.

I can't tell if this person is joking or trolling.
I'll assume joking and say LMAO.

Anyway sadly we are not all equal as things are at the moment, that's why we have to fight for equality.

abnegation
May 7th, 2010, 10:21 AM
Do I think so? No. Do I wish so? In many ways, yes.

In saying that, there are many grey areas but I'm going to take this as if we all have a clean slate and no past that could affect our relationship with the legislation. When it comes to the brackets you mentioned ie. religion, race, sexuality etc. I do think that we should all have the same rights. With that said, not every country is alike and some rights may need to be restricted in some countries rather than others. I can't think of an example right off the top of my head but it's well known that not every country has the same laws, and for the reason I have mentioned in the latter
sentence.

I would like to see there being equality among all human beings and thus bringing some sort of a tranquility on this planet, but human kind has been aiming for that for a long time and has failed to make a lot of headway. I can't make a generalization but I could make a hypothesis and say that many, many people only think of themselves therefore a form of equality among all living people is a lot to be desired for. Possibly at the end of the world, we'll all pull together and we'll be saved from our doom, or maybe that's just in the movies.

Esper
May 7th, 2010, 10:23 AM
The world forces inequality on us. We should all be equal in the sense that we all get the same chances and opportunities to make choices. We should also all have basic human rights: food, shelter, safety, and agency (being free to make those choices in the first place).

What's more important is fairness though. Fairness encompasses the good kind of equality (the kind of stuff I mentioned above) without the bad, distopian, you-must-be-like-me kind of equality.

Melody
May 7th, 2010, 10:37 AM
In essence, yes we all are equal. WE MUST BE EQUAL!
With that being said, it's true that there ARE indeed different kinds of equality, but everyone should get a fair shot at anything they try and not be discriminated against because of their age, gender, race, religion, sexuality, or disability.

Naturally, people with disabilities should be able to obtain the assistance and understanding that they require to live a normal life, but in no way are they more or less than anyone else. Everyone is equal.

Yusshin
May 7th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Nobody is equal, because equal means the same, and we're all different and unique.

We all merit equal rights, though, because we are all of the same species.

We shouldn't joke about someone not having the same rights either. It's hurtful, much like stereotypes.

The only right that I'm against is marriage rights for homosexuals. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Homosexual couples should adopt a similar tradition with a different name that grants them the exact same rights as a married couple, but doesn't, uh, (I don't know the word for this. Not "mock", not "infringe", but "go against") the religious ceremony of around three billion people. This new tradition would technically make homosexuals equal in status, and the terms "bride" and "groom" could still be used. We could just call it a "wedding" and keep it simple <_<

Meh. We're all equal though. No one is more favourable over another person.

Izanagi
May 7th, 2010, 11:53 AM
I don't think so. God has his chosen people (The Jews) and his chosen land (Israel). If you don't fall into those categories, you're not as good.

Kenpari
May 7th, 2010, 12:04 PM
I don't believe we are all equal. Some of us have our strong points, and some of us have no strong points at all. I don't wish to sound mean or anything, but look at the mentally disabled people, and those aren't the only ones I mean. I hate saying that they aren't equal to everybody else, but it seems that they certainly aren't. Some people are better than others. Some have good points/bad points. Some are near-perfect. Others are horrible. It's just the way we are made.

As for equal rights, I believe we should have that.

Sneeze
May 7th, 2010, 02:29 PM
In an ideal world we all would be, but we aren't be it down to anything some people are just better off due to good looks/intelligence/power/money/luck.

Of course if this raises the issue of communism which is great -on paper-, not so much in practice.

Rich Boy Rob
May 7th, 2010, 02:52 PM
Should we be? Yes.
Are we? No.

That's all I'm saying on the situation.

SIN1488
May 7th, 2010, 03:00 PM
No, what the heck? We all have our advantages and disadvantages in life, but some have more disadvantages than advantages, and vice-versa.

But as someone basically said, if we all had unity we could help each other make up for their disadvantages, then we might be able to be considered equal.

Mr. Downstairs
May 7th, 2010, 03:00 PM
I think it's ridiculous that people actually believe everyone is equal.

Just goes to show you how ignorant the people in this world can be, I guess.

Narcissus Secret
May 7th, 2010, 03:13 PM
People are supposed to be equal, but no one is treated is as such.
e
My friend brought up a point about equality for women. He said "You have one of two choices, stop campaigning to be equal, or stop camplaining when we treat you as equals" That is to say, things like "you can't hit a girl," or "ladies first"

poopnoodle
May 7th, 2010, 03:22 PM
I think it's ridiculous that people actually believe everyone is equalim pretty sure "everyone is of equal value" is what they're getting at.

obviously we're all ~unique individuals~ with different preferences and abilities, and despite what i said previously, i do believe everyone should be treated fairly.

it does frustrate me when people take racist jokes and the like seriously and get offended. i don't understand why it's not okay to acknowledge our differences lightheartedly. it's the sensitive people that make life miserable ;c

Mr. Downstairs
May 7th, 2010, 03:29 PM
im pretty sure "everyone is of equal value" is what they're getting at.
That's what I was getting at, too.

curiousnathan
May 7th, 2010, 03:44 PM
Everyone has a certain uniquness with make them; them. However, we all are not 'equal' but we treat each other 'equaly' so people do not get put down, or looked down upon from others in which something they don't have. Rights for people without diabilities should be equal not matter what, they should not change for the rich or wealthy since they already have what they need. But in the end we can be all equal as human beings but not as ourselves and our personalities.

Children and adults with diabilities should have different rights than others who do not, since in order for them to thrive in the world they need different rights to help them achiece what we acchieved when we first were born.

Sexuality and religon should have equal rights to since not one religon is better than the other nor should other people discriminate sexulatiy because of the personal opinion they have. There have been alot of things that have been terrible over which religon is better.

- I wish to not cause any drama or offence, sorry if I have.

Ninja Caterpie
May 7th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Everyone is equal.

Just some people are more equal than others.

It's as simple as that, really.

chikorita125
May 7th, 2010, 04:33 PM
yes we are equal to a certain point so yeh

General Bravo
May 7th, 2010, 07:06 PM
I believe one's natural rights(freedom of speech, assembly, etc.)are universal, and should be applied equally. Beyond that, no. Not everyone is built equally, or has equal abilities. That is an undeniable fact. I'm not saying people can't become more, but everyone has a unique ability level and there's a limit on how far they can get.

hiphiphippo
May 7th, 2010, 07:25 PM
i remembered this quote from code geass, so i thought i'd bring it up
(not saying that i completely agree with it)

All men…are NOT created equal! Some are born smarter, or more beautiful, or with parents of greater status. Some, by contrast, are born weak of body or mind, or with few, if any, talents. All men are different! Yes, the very existence of man is discriminatory! That's why there is war, violence and unrest. Inequality is not evil. Equality is! What became of the EU, who claimed that all are equal? It is in constant conflict because its tenets go against human nature!

some parts are irrelevant, as it is from an anime with a storyline

but i agree with the statements in bold

HaloSonic
May 7th, 2010, 07:48 PM
we were all born/created equal, but mankind's wicked nature segregates all.

FaithInMe
May 7th, 2010, 08:18 PM
The concept of equality is laughable really.
Its just a bit ridiculous.
Its a fact that nobody is equal to anyone else. Equality cant just come around by someone with a magic wand, and even if it could, how would it be enforced.
Its a terrible idea.
I know for a fact that Im better than alot of people, and on the other end of the scale I know that alot of people are better than me. Im happy with the current arrangement of inequality and segregation.

Guillermo
May 8th, 2010, 12:42 AM
Honestly, I'd say we're not equal. Look at those starving people in Africa. No offense to anyone, but they're basically like monkeys. Well, actually, monkeys work better to find food and stuff, so... :x It's not about their race, they just don't seem to function well. I mean it's not like a "LOLOL BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS IMPORTANT THAN WHITE PEOPLE" thing, I mean, look at Bill Cosby.

Disability obviously makes someone unequal. I mean, a brain-dead person is obviously less able to do stuff than a normal person.

I dunno. I'm gonna stop now before I get into trouble, I'm sure people will take this all the wrong way and be offended >__>
I actually agree with this, sort of. The best thing, though, about the Africans being less fortunate than us, is they don't end up relying on material possessions. They live on literally a dollar a day, some of them. Some don't even make money at all. However, if you look at them, they're always smiling, always happy.

No. We're not all equal. In terms of respect, yes, we should all be equal. In terms of everything else, we're not. People have it less fortunate than others, and that's how life runs. To be perfectly honest, in my opinion, I think we all have the power to make everyone equal, at least in terms of money and respect. The Government won't allow it, though. Really, they spend money on the stupidest of things, like new computers and more roads, and forget about the starving children and families in third-world countries.

we were all born/created equal, but mankind's wicked nature segregates all.
Never. Not everyone is born equally. People born to starving parents, people born without limbs, people born with down syndrome or other mental disabilities. How is that equal to a perfectly healthy baby, with perfectly healthy parents who have a strong income? Some kids are born on the streets, for god sakes.

Idiot!
May 8th, 2010, 06:08 AM
IMO, the only things that set us apart are what goes on in our brains and responses to situations.

OokamiShipper
May 8th, 2010, 08:56 AM
We're supposed to be, but it doesn't seem that way, huh? :/

Izanagi
May 8th, 2010, 09:00 AM
If we were supposed to be equal than we'd all be of the same social status, same health, same height, same weight, same nationality... but it doesn't seem that way, huh?

Umbreon_
May 8th, 2010, 09:01 AM
All of us are equal. : ] That's what I know we all have lives.

Tinhead Bruce
May 8th, 2010, 01:49 PM
If we were supposed to be equal than we'd all be of the same social status, same health, same height, same weight, same nationality... but it doesn't seem that way, huh?

What a catty response. I understand your point, but the way you said it was unnecessarily rude.

Let me take a stab at what I think she means. I don't know she actually meant this, but I don't think she was talking about from a "the way we're 'created'" standpoint. I think she was talking more about "endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" standpoint. That we're all supposed to be equal in terms of rights, as stated by the Declaration of Independence.

And yes, I know I left out the "by their Creator" part. It was on purpose, because I'm not bringing God into this.

OokamiShipper
May 8th, 2010, 02:11 PM
If we were supposed to be equal than we'd all be of the same social status, same health, same height, same weight, same nationality... but it doesn't seem that way, huh?

Sorry, I didn't mean to be vague or anything.

Ack, forget what I said. I guess I don't seem to understand this topic completely, I shouldn't have said anything. ^^;

Guillermo
May 8th, 2010, 08:10 PM
All of us are equal. : ] That's what I know we all have lives.
Yes, but our lives are not equal. Besides, some kids don't even experience life. Babies can die before even leaving her mothers womb, and some die right after childbirth. Some parents die giving childbirth, and never get to see their baby girl or boy grow up. How is that equal, or fair?

There's people that live to be 105, and then there's people that live to be, what, 2?

Like Sav said, if it comes down to equal rights, yes we should all be equal, but still we're not. People are too self-opinionated to allow that.

Esper
May 8th, 2010, 09:51 PM
What do material possessions have to do with equality? The question was "Are we equal?" not "do we have equal stuff?" People =/= things. That means money, status, muscle mass, intelligence or anything else you can put into numbers. If you say you think someone with Down syndrone is less equal you're judging based on some kind of reasoning or intelligence scale and would be ignoring, for instance, a person's capacity to love, which can't really be measured and is not at all irrelevant. You can't quantify people so there's no way to say that people (not things) are unequal.

Guillermo
May 8th, 2010, 10:41 PM
What do material possessions have to do with equality? The question was "Are we equal?" not "do we have equal stuff?" People =/= things. That means money, status, muscle mass, intelligence or anything else you can put into numbers. If you say you think someone with Down syndrone is less equal you're judging based on some kind of reasoning or intelligence scale and would be ignoring, for instance, a person's capacity to love, which can't really be measured and is not at all irrelevant. You can't quantify people so there's no way to say that people (not things) are unequal.
You mention material possessions not making people who they are, but if you look at people, they judge who they are off of just that. A kid with an iPod Touch, an iPhone, a nice car and a flat screen TV in his or her room is going to consider himself or herself fairly high up in the world.

So someone's capacity to love makes them who they are? I don't think so. This is about the respect people receive, not what they're capable of. Really, you think a Down Syndrome child is just as equal in terms of respect compared to a healthy child? No. People judge others with disabilities, and that's not equal.

Of course I could just be taking the message you're trying to get across wrong, and if I am I'm truly sorry.

Esper
May 8th, 2010, 11:17 PM
You mention material possessions not making people who they are, but if you look at people, they judge who they are off of just that. A kid with an iPod Touch, an iPhone, a nice car and a flat screen TV in his or her room is going to consider himself or herself fairly high up in the world.
Thinking you're better than other people doesn't make you better.

So someone's capacity to love makes them who they are? I don't think so. This is about the respect people receive, not what they're capable of. Really, you think a Down Syndrome child is just as equal in terms of respect compared to a healthy child? No. People judge others with disabilities, and that's not equal.Not just one's capacity to love. The amount of respect you actually receive doesn't change the amount you deserve to receive. From an objective standpoint no single human life is more important than another so therefore we are all equal. Even bad people are equal because they can be the cause of good things in others, just as smart, loved, generous people can be the cause of bad things.

You can't quantify the worth people, the value. The military assesses your worth as a soldier. Your teacher assesses your worth as a student. No one can tell you what your worth is as a human being.

Fox♠
May 9th, 2010, 04:34 AM
this is gonna turn into a flamefest, look at the arrogant asses already -_-"

Sorry but who the hell are you to call others arrogant over their opinions? It's a discussion there's supposed to be more than one side to it.

I think we're all born equal, but as people we can choose to decline or excel throughout life. I class myself as a far superior human to a lot of this forum simply because of my achievements thus far.

And for the "evry1 equal" gang; What about Hitler? Was/he an equal human being to yourselves?

Izanagi
May 9th, 2010, 04:39 AM
I also deem myself superior to most of my classmates because I feel as if I have a higher level of understanding and wisdom.

Fox♠
May 9th, 2010, 04:43 AM
I also deem myself superior to most of my classmates because I feel as if I have a higher level of understanding and wisdom.

Exactly, you've chosen to learn as opposed to objecting it, your classmates had the same equal chances but they haven't excelled and are in my opinion therefore inferior.

I feel I have better morals than a lot of people I know, as well as being more educated and caring, therefore I feel I am the superior to them.

Guillermo
May 9th, 2010, 04:47 AM
Thinking you're better than other people doesn't make you better.

Not just one's capacity to love. The amount of respect you actually receive doesn't change the amount you deserve to receive. From an objective standpoint no single human life is more important than another so therefore we are all equal. Even bad people are equal because they can be the cause of good things in others, just as smart, loved, generous people can be the cause of bad things.

You can't quantify the worth people, the value. The military assesses your worth as a soldier. Your teacher assesses your worth as a student. No one can tell you what your worth is as a human being.
No, thinking you're better than someone else doesn't make you better but it doesn't matter what you are, what matters is what you think you are. If you truly think you're superman, then you're superman. If you think you're better than someone else, then you think you're better than them. It doesn't matter what society tells you. What matters is what you tell you.

So you're telling me that if someone came along, murdered everyone you ever cared about and leaves you mentally scarred for the rest of your life, you'd believe they deserve respect? I don't think you would. People are given the opportunity to be equal. Some refuse, and some accept. If someone refuses then that's tough luck to them.

Sure a teacher assesses your work as a student, but the work may not be the same as the kids next to you. Schools often put the less educated people in special classes to help them become equal to others in their education.

Izanagi
May 9th, 2010, 05:02 AM
I don't like to use grades to gauge intelligence or anything like that. Kid One could be smarter than Kid Two, but Kid Two could test better, because he's got photographic memory, or studies better, or something.

Zeph.
May 9th, 2010, 09:29 AM
Is a man who has worked hard his whole life and earned a great fortune in order to sustain a family equal to a rapist or murderer, for example?

Esper
May 9th, 2010, 11:21 AM
So you're telling me that if someone came along, murdered everyone you ever cared about and leaves you mentally scarred for the rest of your life, you'd believe they deserve respect?
Of course I would be angry and wouldn't feel like giving them any respect, but I'd have gone through a terrible ordeal and wouldn't be able to be objective. I would hope that someone not personally affected would be able to have a level head and insist that the murderer be treated fairly.

Sure a teacher assesses your work as a student, but the work may not be the same as the kids next to you. Schools often put the less educated people in special classes to help them become equal to others in their education.Like you said, equal in terms of education, but not equal in terms of being a person. It would be silly to say that a person's worth is determined by their education.

WolfgangWhiplash
May 9th, 2010, 11:28 AM
Equality (in value, rights, etc.) will never be achieved because it is the human nature to surpass the other. This is both good and bad, because humanity evolved into today with this in mind (not only this, but it played a pretty important role).

otakulily
May 9th, 2010, 01:14 PM
No, not according to my superiority complex.

Guillermo
May 9th, 2010, 08:40 PM
Of course I would be angry and wouldn't feel like giving them any respect, but I'd have gone through a terrible ordeal and wouldn't be able to be objective. I would hope that someone not personally affected would be able to have a level head and insist that the murderer be treated fairly.
If it was me, personally, I would want them to suffer and be miserable for the remainder of their life. The murderer wasn't being fair or equal to murder another. Like I said, every single person that has an education and has a well-funded family when they're born has the opportunity to be equal and excel. Some throw it away and move to a life of crime. If they had their opportunity and didn't take it, I don't believe they deserve equal respect to someone who did and got far in life.

Like you said, equal in terms of education, but not equal in terms of being a person. It would be silly to say that a person's worth is determined by their education.A persons worth isn't determined by their education, no. I agree. But it does determine what other people think they're worth and at the end of the day, if someone doesn't have a fitting education, they're not going to excel very far in life, which then brings in the fact that society looks down on less educated people. For example, you go to a job interview and realise there's only you and another person going for said job. You decided you would do your work in school, got good grades and are currently studying at a university. The other person did no such thing. Didn't do work, doesn't go to uni and mooches off of his or her parents all the time and has no sense of education in them. Who gets the job?

I do agree on a lot of your points, though.

Rich Boy Rob
May 10th, 2010, 08:58 AM
No, thinking you're better than someone else doesn't make you better but it doesn't matter what you are, what matters is what you think you are. If you truly think you're superman, then you're superman. If you think you're better than someone else, then you think you're better than them. It doesn't matter what society tells you. What matters is what you tell you.

So you're telling me that if someone came along, murdered everyone you ever cared about and leaves you mentally scarred for the rest of your life, you'd believe they deserve respect? I don't think you would. People are given the opportunity to be equal. Some refuse, and some accept. If someone refuses then that's tough luck to them.

Sure a teacher assesses your work as a student, but the work may not be the same as the kids next to you. Schools often put the less educated people in special classes to help them become equal to others in their education.

I agree with you on some points, but you seem to have contradicted yourself a bit. By what you said, if said murderer believed they sane and better than everyone else, then they would be sane better than everyone else :\

PkMnTrainer Yellow
May 10th, 2010, 09:19 AM
Nobody is equal. Nobody should be equal ._. Absolutely not. I would die to prevent such an atrocity.

...There is a big difference between equal rights and being equal.
To be equal, everyone would have to be exactly the same as everyone else.

Everyone requires different treatment to sate their differences. This is fairness.

Magik?!
May 10th, 2010, 09:32 AM
I think that equality depends on ability and what you do with it, not on gender/race/disability/religion/any other factors.

There are people from both genders who have changed the world, for better and for worse (although the worse all seems to be men xD), but both genders have the capability to do most things to an equal standard. Though, there is a reason that there is a division between men and women in sports - men are physically stronger than women, so they're not equal in that area. But to balance out the fact that men were the hunters, women are able to give birth (I know, great right?). As far as intelligence goes - I believe that as an average, men and women are equal, it's just that men are more likely to voice their opinions or theories while women are generally more likely to take a backseat, and yes I know that's our own fault, but it doesn't make us stupid.

As for race... No matter what you believe (the Big Bang-evolution theory or a creation story), I think most things show up that the human species started somewhere in North Africa - meaning we were most likely not white before we started emmigrating and stuff. By the same measure, I don't believe that white people are any worse than other races. It's only the individuals that give whites a bad name. Again, I think that it has nothing to do with skin colour, shape of face or whatever... we're all the same species and we all have different capabilities. Just because someone's Asian doesn't mean that they're good at maths (I know plenty who aren't), the same as just because someone's white doesn't mean they want to take over the world and make everyone else their slaves. It's to do with individual people's work ethics, moral beliefs, upbringing and about a bazillion other factors as to what they're good at or not.

As for disability... I guess it depends what type. Obviously someone who is paralyzed is not physically equal to an Olympic athelete, but by the same measure, things like Aspergers have been strongly correllated with high intelligence. Even mental illnesses such as Bipolar Disorder (manic depression) are thought to increase the percentage of the brain used at any one time.

Religion... ahhh. A sensitive subject for many people I've seen on here. Religion shouldn't make a difference to the way anyone is treated, but as we can see from various societies and incidents, it does. Personally, I'm 'religionless' (not atheist, nor agnostic... just don't follow a specific religion), so I dislike the fighting over minor differences in beliefs, but at the same time I understand how people have complete faith in their god and believe that they are worth fighting, killing and dying for. I think that people can have equal morals, whether they follow the same religion or not. Not killing is hardly something exclusive to one religion, everyone gets taught the same thing if you go to a basic level: Treat people how you wish to be treated.

As for schools and stuff, I believe all students should be treated equally, but that equality should be shown by pushing the students to their highest level. I'm right at the top of my year in most subjects, but I don't feel any superior to those who are at the bottom of the year, so long as they try as hard as me. For people who just bunk class and don't bother, then get low grades... yeah, I guess I feel better than them because I can't help but think that if they behave that way when they get a job etc, then they're screwed. So I feel better than them. But those same people will probably be better than me in sports, or computers, or music or whatever, so again it gets evened out.

All in all, I'll stick with my beliefs that it all depends on what people do with the abilities and circumstances that they get, and how they react to things. I would like to say that I think all people are equal - and indeed they are in some respects - but it depends what you are measuring for equality.

Guillermo
May 11th, 2010, 12:08 AM
I agree with you on some points, but you seem to have contradicted yourself a bit. By what you said, if said murderer believed they sane and better than everyone else, then they would be sane better than everyone else :\
Ah, yeah. But usually murderers don't think like that. Some people murder out of blind rage, or even jealousy. Obviously if you murder someone you're not better than anyone else, no. That's too serious to think like that.

T3h Kaiser
May 11th, 2010, 12:32 AM
This thread is really kind of scary. You people are either seriously self-loathing or just outright hateful. Try turning that frown upside down and think a bit brighter for a change. Have some optimism; it doesn't hurt anybody to think positively.

Yes, I think we're all created equal. We're all blank slates when we're born. Who one chooses to be is up to the individual.



People with certain disabilities should be treated differently, of course. Each according to their needs.

Why should they be? Why is it necessary? A disability is something someone is born with; rights and respect are something you earn. Special treatment is something you ask for. Don't automatically assume that kind of thing, please and thank you.

EDIT: Aha! Now here is someone in this thread worth praise! The smartest one of the bunch.

What do material possessions have to do with equality? The question was "Are we equal?" not "do we have equal stuff?" People =/= things. That means money, status, muscle mass, intelligence or anything else you can put into numbers. If you say you think someone with Down syndrone is less equal you're judging based on some kind of reasoning or intelligence scale and would be ignoring, for instance, a person's capacity to love, which can't really be measured and is not at all irrelevant. You can't quantify people so there's no way to say that people (not things) are unequal.

Thank you.

Guillermo
May 11th, 2010, 12:35 AM
This thread is really kind of scary. You people are either seriously self-loathing or just outright hateful. Try turning that frown upside down and think a bit brighter for a change. Have some optimism; it doesn't hurt anybody to think positively
Boy, are we sorry for expressing how we feel. And how does thinking everyone is born equal optimism? It's just a feeling towards a subject on a Pokemon forum.

T3h Kaiser
May 11th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Boy, are we sorry for expressing how we feel. And how does thinking everyone is born equal optimism? It's just a feeling towards a subject on a Pokemon forum.

The vast majority of the posts in this thread are either "oh woe is me, I don't have enough stuff" or "hell no we ain't equal, I'm twice as awesome as the dumb punks in my hood" or "hurp durp africa monkeys".

One could gather from reading this thread that this is quite a grim Pokemon forum.

Seriously, what's wrong with thinking we're equal? What do people things - statuses, wealth, material objects - have to do with who we are as human beings when we're born? Further, how do they affect the feelings we're capable of? Has everyone lost sight of what it means to be human? Because money and clothes and even disabilities have nothing to do with it.

But anyway, I updated my last post with a nice quote so I guess it's not all bad.

Guillermo
May 11th, 2010, 12:44 AM
The vast majority of the posts in this thread are either "oh woe is me, I don't have enough stuff" or "hell no we ain't equal, I'm twice as awesome as the dumb punks in my hood" or "hurp durp africa monkeys".

One could gather from reading this thread that this is quite a grim Pokemon forum.

Seriously, what's wrong with thinking we're equal? What do people things - statuses, wealth, material objects - have to do with who we are as human beings when we're born? Further, how do they affect the feelings we're capable of?

But anyway, I updated my last post with a nice quote so I guess it's not all bad.
Yeah some of them are dumb, but you're just contradicting yourself now by making fun of them. You're not treating them equally.

I don't think anything is wrong with believing we're all equal, but I don't think we are. And because someone with all the wealth in the world is not equal to a bum on the street. They get treated differently, making them not equal.

T3h Kaiser
May 11th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Yeah some of them are dumb, but you're just contradicting yourself now by making fun of them. You're not treating them equally.

I don't think anything is wrong with believing we're all equal, but I don't think we are. And because someone with all the wealth in the world is not equal to a bum on the street. They get treated differently, making them not equal.

I may be acting a bit smarmy, true, but it's late and I'm tired. However! I have said nothing of their value as human beings; I'm sure that one day, with a bit of effort and alot of magic, they could be productive members of society. I'm sure that they will be able to love and create and share and all sorts of wonderful things, just as you and I and Scarf too.

Making fun of them does nothing to limit their rights, but even if that were the case that's not the whole truth of the original post in this thread.

Do you think everyone on earth is equal, no matter what race, religion, sexuality, disability or gender, etc? Why or why not?

This is a question of human worth. Human value. What we are born into.

Should we all have equal rights too?

This is a question of human rights. How we treat one another. Equality laws, social castes and fair treatment.

Two very separate issues. I chose to address the former and only the former. I care not for addressing the latter.

Guillermo
May 11th, 2010, 01:43 AM
I may be acting a bit smarmy, true, but it's late and I'm tired. However! I have said nothing of their value as human beings; I'm sure that one day, with a bit of effort and alot of magic, they could be productive members of society. I'm sure that they will be able to love and create and share and all sorts of wonderful things, just as you and I and Scarf too.
Meh, I'm tired too. Again, yes, they may be, but a lot of the time in order to get where you are, you have to work hard at a young age. People that live on the streets either didn't do that, or had everything taken from them. They end up relying on other people for their food, and their shelter. Does that make them any less of a person? In my eyes, no. They deserve every right another human being does, whether rich, poor, strong, weak, blind, or anything else. However, the rights society actually gives them is nothing of that sort.

PkMnTrainer Yellow
May 11th, 2010, 10:48 AM
Equality has nothing to do with social standing. Kid A is automatically not equal to Kid B at birth, and even before then. This term has been thrown around too much. .-. It's simple math. To be equal, they have to be the same. We are individuals. By definition we are not equal.

And no, nobody is 'better' in general than anyone else. It's not possible under any circumstances to gauge this. Therefore, we as human beings are better off ignoring the idea.

It is easier to gauge whether someone is better at something specific.

HeyMikey
May 11th, 2010, 03:43 PM
As many people have said, this idea of "equality" doesn't really exist imo because we simply are not equal. The whole "better or worse" thing is what the focus should be on.

While I really hate to say it, I do somewhat feel that people can't be better or worse than each other. I mean, take a kid who's good at everything and then a kid who's terrible at everything. This is a massive exaggeration, but I can't see how the first is not better than the second. I'm not trying to say that I personally am better or worse than anyone else. I just find it a hard concept to deal with, really... To me, it's always seemed that people can be "better" or "worse". Just my standing, though. Feel free to explain to me why I'm wrong, as I probably am.

poopnoodle
May 11th, 2010, 03:50 PM
While I really hate to say it, I do somewhat feel that people can't be better or worse than each other. I mean, take a kid who's good at everything and then a kid who's terrible at everything. This is a massive exaggeration, but I can't see how the first is not better than the second. I'm not trying to say that I personally am better or worse than anyone else. I just find it a hard concept to deal with, really... To me, it's always seemed that people can be "better" or "worse". Just my standing, though. Feel free to explain to me why I'm wrong, as I probably am.

we've established that we're all unique and our natural abilities vary, now ask yourself if one who is less able than others is less valuable than others.

.Gamer
May 11th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Short answer: No.

Long answer: Nope.


People who do stuff and are productive are worth more than people who sit on their lazy asses all day and beg for money. If you make minimum wage you are worth more than the guy who is sitting on the corner of 5th and 37th begging for spare change.

HeyMikey
May 11th, 2010, 03:58 PM
we've established that we're all unique and our natural abilities vary, now ask yourself if one who is less able than others is less valuable than others.

Well that's the thing, really. My morals are screaming no, they aren't any less valuable, but logic is saying that they are less valuable. And I was never really one to listen to my morals in all honesty. Logic says that someone who can do more is "better" than someone who cannot perform at the same level, unless there's a very good reason such as disability or w/e behind that. I know it sounds harsh, but yea.

poopnoodle
May 11th, 2010, 03:58 PM
People who do stuff and are productive are worth more than people who sit on their lazy asses all day and beg for money. If you make minimum wage you are worth more than the guy who is sitting on the corner of 5th and 37th begging for spare change.
Well that's the thing, really. My morals are screaming no, they aren't any less valuable, but logic is saying that they are less valuable. And I was never really one to listen to my morals in all honesty. Logic says that someone who can do more is "better" than someone who cannot perform at the same level, unless there's a very good reason such as disability or w/e behind that.
i think we're all equal in potential. people tend to make themselves worthless to society, but that doesnt make them worthless as a human being.