PDA

View Full Version : [B/W] A solution to the HMs


DXrobots
May 15th, 2010, 08:47 PM
We've been getting about 8 HM's per game now. That's ridiculous even with an HM slave you can only cover half the HMs in the game meaning you'd have to distribute the four remaining amongst the rest of your party. So that means your going to have four pokemon with four unwanted moves (except surf and maybe waterfall). what I want to see is less HM's 5 like in generation one that way I'm not stuck with something stupid like defog on my main party.

Patchisou Yutohru
May 15th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Ugh, HMs. I was going to make a thread about this. I don't like the fact that you need HMs to navigate throughout the region. I can understand why, because sometimes you'll likely end up going somewhere where you don't need to be like an area for level 20 when you're only level 5 or so, so it makes it more challenging. The only move I can understand is surf and fly. I don't like how you have to ride up waterfalls and magically stop whirlpools. I would like things like that to be affected by the weather more than a Pokémon's ability to stop it.

I wish they would just eliminate the use of HMs all together, personally, but I don't see that happening, unfortunately. I hate having to have HMs on my main Pokémon, or even have an HM slave on my party to begin with.

I guess that's more wishful thinking than anything, though... *sigh*

PiPVoda
May 15th, 2010, 08:53 PM
Possible solutions:

-have some pokemon learn old HM moves through leveling up
-turn hms into tms and have them for sale at department stores, also increase the power of the weaker ones
-possibly combine some HMs, like say if you know surf then you can automatically get past whirlpools, or if a pkmn knows rock smash they can climb up rocks without the help of rock climb...well I like rock climb so keep it but get rid of rock smash.

I don't see them making many more HMs, I may be wrong though, so the ones we have now should be the main ones that we always have.

Waffle-San
May 15th, 2010, 09:07 PM
I've never had a huge problem with HM's. I mean ingame Surf, Waterfall (since the physical, special split), Strength, sometimes Fly and even Rock Smash from time to time are useful. I rarely have an HM slave and just get by giving every Pokemon an HM and some water pokmon gets Waterfall and Strength. But I do agree there could be other ways, an HM slot that all Pokemon have and can be filled with a learnable HM.

Possible solutions:

-have some pokemon learn old HM moves through leveling up
-turn hms into tms and have them for sale at department stores, also increase the power of the weaker ones
-possibly combine some HMs, like say if you know surf then you can automatically get past whirlpools, or if a pkmn knows rock smash they can climb up rocks without the help of rock climb...well I like rock climb so keep it but get rid of rock smash.

I don't see them making many more HMs, I may be wrong though, so the ones we have now should be the main ones that we always have.

What about upgrading HM's? Like Surf is still an HM but at first you can't go through whirlpools and waterfalls. But when you beat gym leaders your pokemon's abilities get upgraded so now it has level 2 surf which is the same in battle but now lets it travel through watefalls.

Another possible solution is to let you summon Pokemon from your boxes from anywhere. That way you can summon a Pokemon that knows Cut to get rid of the tree in front of you and then you can send it back. Personally I like the upgrading idea though.

Esper
May 15th, 2010, 09:13 PM
I don't mind HMs that much, just when I forget I don't have the right pokemon with me when I run into a boulder. I'd like something different for no other reason than HMs have become predictable and boring.

Dillon_68
May 15th, 2010, 09:14 PM
I have a solution, get the main character to do the swimming, climbing, tree chopping, etc. for once, stop the Pokemon abuse. lol.

Ai
May 15th, 2010, 09:18 PM
I like that upgrading idea. Yeah Surf could turn into getting through whirlpools and waterfalls as well so that you don't have to use a separate HM each time you encounter it. Just put a restriction like a gym badge on it.
Rock Smash and Strength could fit together some how I guess.
But I don't see this going to happen unfortunately.

GoldvsRed
May 15th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Maybe a Pokemon could have a special HM Move slot, or certain Pokemon have a built-in ability for getting past those obstacles. I find it silly how a Tentacool has to learn how to swim, when the ocean's its only habitat. And, as always, NO. MORE. ROCK. SMASH.

JP
May 15th, 2010, 09:28 PM
I think HM's should just be removed and those abilities just things that certain Pokemon know naturally. With the count of HM's going up like that, it's just too much and the idea is just stale now. Needs something new and not a pain in the ass.

jon328
May 15th, 2010, 09:29 PM
i dont mind surf and fly because they're at least decent. i hope they dont return defog or flash as an hm. they are horrible. and i like a lot of your guy's ideas. hopefully they do something about it for B and W

Johto_legend
May 15th, 2010, 10:43 PM
Maybe a Pokemon could have a special HM Move slot, or certain Pokemon have a built-in ability for getting past those obstacles. I find it silly how a Tentacool has to learn how to swim, when the ocean's its only habitat. And, as always, NO. MORE. ROCK. SMASH.

i like the idea to have a HM slot seperate to the 4 other moves. and the idea of upgrading them. but why not incorporate sum ranger skills and just carry around 2 "ranger" pokemon that do all these things. but that may be too much.

GoldvsRed
May 15th, 2010, 10:53 PM
Wait, why not use Key Items for this sort of thing? We've already seen the Bicycle cross planks, bunny-hop, ride up steep hills, and even dash past crumbling floors. Those are the sort of things the Items could do.

Thunderpunch
May 16th, 2010, 12:27 AM
HMs were never a problem. If it takes you four pokemon to learn eight HMs, that's your own fault. I have a skarmory with 4 and a bibarel with the other 4 in pearl. wasn't hard for me to figure out. they're common and in both versions

Charmageddon
May 16th, 2010, 12:29 AM
Seconding the Key Items. What is the purpose of HMs? To fix Broken Bridges (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBridge). You do not need moves for this, items will fulfil the exact same function while being a hell of a lot less annoying.

HMs were never a problem. If it takes you four pokemon to learn eight HMs, that's your own fault. I have a skarmory with 4 and a bibarel with the other 4 in pearl. wasn't hard for me to figure out. they're common and in both versions

It's not difficult, no, but very, very irritating. It's not a challenge to go get Tropius and Bibarel out of the PC, it's just an annoying, dull waste of time. Games should be fun, they should not require you to carry out a repetitive and boring task every time you want to cut down a goddamn tree.

Bluerang1
May 16th, 2010, 01:07 AM
We only need:
Fly
Surf
Special one for the Region

Because seriously, Rock Smash is a pain, so is Strength which is fine as an actual move.

I think to fix this, maybe we should get actual tools, like a hammer, older players afterall, rock climbing kit, and all that. But keep Surf and Fly.

Flare Riqueza
May 16th, 2010, 02:31 AM
Hmmm....

I'd love combinations.

However, if Scyther is available, or something else with technician, unlike you guys, I don't hate Cut and Rock Smash!

If I'm right on their original powers, Cut becomes 100, and Rock Smash becomes 80, suddenly making them useful!

But yeah, I've always thought just the size, type, etc. of the pokemon should change it.

I.e. Dragonite and Garchomp, between them, can do everything now.

But, surely they don't need moves for that?

Rich Boy Rob
May 16th, 2010, 02:52 AM
I agree with Key Items idea. I mean they were planning to have a surfboard in RBY, so why not bring it back? Although in the case of surf, a boat would make more sense as a surfboard is hardly a legitimate mode of transport.

We could easily get away with having only Surf and Fly as HMs. The HM upgrade idea makes sense aswell.

chaos11011
May 16th, 2010, 03:39 AM
Maybe when you beat a gym you "earn" the skill to use it (exp. Fly or Surf)They also give you a Copy of the HM so like the old games you can teach it to your pokemon (so you can have surf for attacking) but you dont need the Teach the pokemon the move to use it.

vibratingcat
May 16th, 2010, 04:01 AM
i dont mind hms too much. they just dont need 8. 5 is good. fly, surf, cut, strength and dive will do.

the randomizer
May 16th, 2010, 04:05 AM
hms are sooooooooooo anoying theyre not even good moves

Twelfth Crusader
May 16th, 2010, 04:08 AM
What really annoyed about Ruby/Saphire was that there were three water HMs! I didn't want to take two water giys with me as it's a little inbalanced so my wate guy was forced to learn surf, waterfall and dive which was even more inbalanced!

Major_Tom
May 16th, 2010, 04:11 AM
It would be better if hm's were erasable without the need of the move deleter. That way you could use them as a temporary move then erase them with a move suited better for your pokemon.

MartinJF
May 16th, 2010, 04:13 AM
Each pokemon should have 4 "HM slots". Those moves could not be used in battle, but they would work like normal outside battles. That way we dont need to use move slots on useless hm's

sampika08
May 16th, 2010, 04:14 AM
Why do we need a machine for a water pokemon to be able to swim? Surely firepokemon could burn down trees (no need for cut). Most pokemon can climb, see, and the likes. I think HMs should be removed for abilities. So water pokemon have the ability surf along with 4 moves.

Magic
May 16th, 2010, 04:23 AM
I would like the hidden machine to remain hidden : D

And rather than a HM it's a person who will train your pokémon so it can do something, but it takes up a <skill> slot rather than a move slot.

Different Pokémon could have different amounts of skill slots, and can obviously not learn things if they don't qualify.

embercat
May 16th, 2010, 06:49 AM
I like your uprading idea PipVoda, that way youd only really need a rock hm, a water hm and then cut and maybe flash and whatever, i think they should make the moves stronger though, its so annoying having one of your main pokemon having a really weak mood. PiPVoda (http://www.pokecommunity.com/member.php?u=197985) http://www.pokecommunity.com/images/templates/pichusquared/statusicon/user_offline.gif
bàwo ni?

juanhbk1
May 16th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I have a solution, get the main character to do the swimming, climbing, tree chopping, etc. for once, stop the Pokemon abuse. lol.

This is smart except you can surf and fly but all the rock smashing, boulder moving, tree cutting and climbing to the main characters so once you beat a gym the HM distributors give you a kit like a axe, hammer and rope??

Yamikarasu
May 16th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Moves like Cut, Rock Smash, Flash, and Rock Climb should be replaced with key items. Cut would be a sythe, Rock Smash would be... I dunno, think of something (Fists of Steel, maybe?It doesn't have to be serious :P), Flash would be a flashlight/lantern, and Rock Climb would be climbing boots.

If Game Freak doesn't like that idea, I also like the idea of Pokemon having extra move slots for field moves that they wouldn't use in battle. Give each Pokemon two extra slots, or maybe more, since in all likelihood you would want to put Surf, Dive, Waterfall, and Whirlpool on your water type.

EDIT: And why not just replace Surf, Dive, Waterfall, and Whirlpool with a single move? I mean, if a Pokemon can go over water, than surely it can dive under water as well? I've never thought it has made sense when you're surfing on your Vaporeon and then you have to use your Gyrados's Waterfall to go up the waterfall. It seems like one Pokemon should be able to everything, IMO.

Timbjerr
May 16th, 2010, 07:40 AM
Am I the only one that's not bothered by HM moves? The only ones that are weak are Cut, Rock Smash, and Flash/Defog. Everything else is actually a worthwhile attack. In recent games, you rarely need cut and rock smash after a while, so you can have an early game HM slave that you replace later in the game. Defog and Flash are hardly even necessary even for navigational purposes if you're skilled enough. >_>

Arma
May 16th, 2010, 08:36 AM
After you've beaten a gym a got permission to use surf, you should just be able to surf if any of your pokemon can learn the move. same goes with Fly, in the pokemon screen fly will appear when you select a pokemon that could learn fly in the previous generations.

tvoza2
May 16th, 2010, 09:39 AM
i say get rid of cut entirely, slash should be there instead. same move, slash is just more powerful. and we dont need surf, we just need, say a jetski, a key item like the bike. and say hedgeclippers for cut. and if you've played pkmn raptor, replace rock climb with a climbing rope.

Zorua
May 16th, 2010, 09:50 AM
HMs to me are like "They're sorta useless and not necessary, but I'll use them and just not complain anyway; its not like my complaining would actually do a thing."

So I pretty much ignore their purpose but use them anyway. It would be nice having a good substitution for them instead of the actual HMs, but eh.

Blue
May 16th, 2010, 10:09 AM
It's annoying when you want a team of say 4 or 5, and you need HMs which are useless for battle (Rock smash, cut, defog ect.) in order to proceed in the storyline, the only two HM'S I like are Surf & Strength.

.EJ
May 16th, 2010, 10:48 AM
I agree with some of the tool ideas. Like we should get access to a small blade, hammer, climbing gear, and maybe even give him/her swimming capabilities. If the weird trainers can swim, why not us?

They can keep fly and strength because let's face it, we can't sprout wings or possess super-human power to push a massive boulder.

Charmageddon
May 16th, 2010, 11:27 AM
Cut – Machete/Chainsaw
Surf – Boat, Speedboat
Dive – Scuba Kit
Rock Climb – Mountaineering Kit
Waterfall – Mountaineering Kit (waterfalls)
Rock Smash – Pickaxe/Drill
Flash – Flashlight
Fly – Jetpack



That's what it should be. I don't know what should replace Strength, I guess Rock Smash is pretty much the same thing anyway. Whirlpool and Defog can go die in a fire.

Tyrantrum
May 16th, 2010, 04:42 PM
HMs I actually like: Surf, Fly, and Strength. All the other ones are stupid. Especially Cut and Rock Smash; the two most pointless HMs in every single Pokémon game! D:< I mostly want those two gone for good. The other would be... alright, I suppose. Keep Flash as a TM, and get rid of Defog. That was a stupid idea.

Waffle-San
May 16th, 2010, 05:29 PM
Hmmm....

I'd love combinations.

However, if Scyther is available, or something else with technician, unlike you guys, I don't hate Cut and Rock Smash!

If I'm right on their original powers, Cut becomes 100, and Rock Smash becomes 80, suddenly making them useful!

But yeah, I've always thought just the size, type, etc. of the pokemon should change it.

I.e. Dragonite and Garchomp, between them, can do everything now.

But, surely they don't need moves for that?

It's x1.5 so they have a power of 75 and 60 repectively. I have to disagree with everyone saying Rock Smash is useless, I mean the 50% defense lower is so nice. Flash and DeFog are the useless ones.

We only need:
Fly
Surf
Special one for the Region

Because seriously, Rock Smash is a pain, so is Strength which is fine as an actual move.

I think to fix this, maybe we should get actual tools, like a hammer, older players afterall, rock climbing kit, and all that. But keep Surf and Fly.

I think this naive...I mean there's lots of tunnels that involve strength and what now. HM's are useful parts of the game and should not be taken out, they just need another way to implement them. My favourites would be the key items idea and my own about upgrading. Surf is the only HM you'd actually have to teach and it lets you climb waterfalls, dive etc. but you have to earn gym badges to unlock its secondary capabilities like diving and climbing waterfalls.

BleuVII
May 16th, 2010, 07:10 PM
I have heard the idea of using key items before, but I agree with something I heard over on the Gamefaqs forums. These games are about pokemon, not items. As such, I am fully in favor of using your pokemon to get around the worldmap.

However, HMs have to go. I would love to see each pokemon having one to two movement abilities (that are not attacks). That way, you would have to build a team not only based on types, but also on movement abilities. So, for example, an Ursaring would have the "Strenght" and "Rock Smash" abilities, Tentacool would have "Surf," and when it evolves to Tentacruel, "Whirlpool" or "Dive." I would also like to see the bicycle replaced by a field move that allowed you to ride a fast pokemon like Rapidash.

That way, you could still keep Defog and Flash, but they would be one of two movement abilities, and they wouldn't take up an attack slot.

Ωmega
May 16th, 2010, 07:29 PM
I really like the upgrading idea. I also like Skill Slot idea. How about we put the two together? I propose this:

Instead of upgrading from gaining a badge, how about the Skills--essentially the same as HMs--upgrade upon gaining Skill Points? Each battle would give Exp and Skill Points. Upon gaining enough Skill Points, the Skill would upgrade. For example, Mijumaru's Surf would eventually upgrade to Surf II (Surf w/ Whirlpool) then Surf III (Surf w/ Whirlpool and Waterfall). The HMs would still be moves, TMs, that can be given for move slots, but the Skills would be given at birth. Some Pokemon would have more than one Skill that would be determined at birth, much like Abilities and IVs. For example, Pelipper can know Surf and Fly. At birth, like IVs, its Skill would be different.

Also, there would be a limitation on which part of a Skill can be used before a certain badge, much like HMs can only be used after getting a certain badge. So, to clarify:

--HMs would be removed and instead be split into TMs and Skills. A Surf TM would behave the same as Surf I, not Surf II or III.
--Depending on their type and movepool, a Pokemon could have up to six variable Skills (frikkin' Bibarel...)
--Skills can be upgraded through battles, which would give Exp and Skill Points. Skill Points per battle are set while Exp is not.
--Skills can only be upgraded so far until a certain badge is received. This eliminates grinding for Skill Points.
--A Pokemon's Skill gauge (where the points are allocated, much like the Exp gauge) differs for the Pokemon. For example, Wingull's Surf Skill gauge would be smaller than Mijumaru's Surf Skill gauge.

If there's any loopholes in this system, just let me know. I spent all of math class thinking about this. :D

Vrai
May 16th, 2010, 07:31 PM
As much as I don't like those HMs, they're going to be there like forever, because it's a part of the game we've come to know and love. We'll still have the good old stuff like fly and cut and such but whirlpool and dive and flash and defog were pretty region-specific, I think. We'll probably get another HM or two this generation but I doubt we'll exceed 8 total HMs like we've had in the last two generations.

Edit: butbutbut if they really do do anything with HMs, it would be nice if they were deletable by hand so that you can give your *insert grass starter here* Cut just so he can cut that one tree and then delete it for some much better TM. ):

Waffle-San
May 16th, 2010, 07:34 PM
I really like the upgrading idea. I also like Skill Slot idea. How about we put the two together? I propose this:

Instead of upgrading from gaining a badge, how about the Skills--essentially the same as HMs--upgrade upon gaining Skill Points? Each battle would give Exp and Skill Points. Upon gaining enough Skill Points, the Skill would upgrade. For example, Mijumaru's Surf would eventually upgrade to Surf II (Surf w/ Whirlpool) then Surf III (Surf w/ Whirlpool and Waterfall). The HMs would still be moves, TMs, that can be given for move slots, but the Skills would be given at birth. Some Pokemon would have more than one Skill that would be determined at birth, much like Abilities and IVs. For example, Pelipper can know Surf and Fly. At birth, like IVs, its Skill would be different.

Also, there would be a limitation on which part of a Skill can be used before a certain badge, much like HMs can only be used after getting a certain badge. So, to clarify:

--HMs would be removed and instead be split into TMs and Skills. A Surf TM would behave the same as Surf I, not Surf II or III.
--Depending on their type and movepool, a Pokemon could have up to six variable Skills (frikkin' Bibarel...)
--Skills can be upgraded through battles, which would give Exp and Skill Points. Skill Points per battle are set while Exp is not.
--Skills can only be upgraded so far until a certain badge is received. This eliminates grinding for Skill Points.
--A Pokemon's Skill gauge (where the points are allocated, much like the Exp gauge) differs for the Pokemon. For example, Wingull's Surf Skill gauge would be smaller than Mijumaru's Surf Skill gauge.

If there's any loopholes in this system, just let me know. I spent all of math class thinking about this. :D

This is pretty complicated, which is usually a turn off for me when it comes to Pokemon but I love it!! The only thing that I don't like is changing HM's into TM's. Leave them as HMs (don't care about being deletable or not) but make them so they can still be taught over and over again. Besides that, it's pretty awesome! Complicated though.

Narcissus Secret
May 16th, 2010, 07:50 PM
HMs are annoying. I mean, when I see a tiny tree I will just squeeze past it, or take my machete to it. I never understood the need for them, or why in the heck you couldn't buy an axe or something...

BleuVII
May 16th, 2010, 08:05 PM
I really like the upgrading idea. I also like Skill Slot idea. How about we put the two together? I propose this:

Instead of upgrading from gaining a badge, how about the Skills--essentially the same as HMs--upgrade upon gaining Skill Points? Each battle would give Exp and Skill Points. Upon gaining enough Skill Points, the Skill would upgrade. For example, Mijumaru's Surf would eventually upgrade to Surf II (Surf w/ Whirlpool) then Surf III (Surf w/ Whirlpool and Waterfall). The HMs would still be moves, TMs, that can be given for move slots, but the Skills would be given at birth. Some Pokemon would have more than one Skill that would be determined at birth, much like Abilities and IVs. For example, Pelipper can know Surf and Fly. At birth, like IVs, its Skill would be different.

Also, there would be a limitation on which part of a Skill can be used before a certain badge, much like HMs can only be used after getting a certain badge. So, to clarify:

--HMs would be removed and instead be split into TMs and Skills. A Surf TM would behave the same as Surf I, not Surf II or III.
--Depending on their type and movepool, a Pokemon could have up to six variable Skills (frikkin' Bibarel...)
--Skills can be upgraded through battles, which would give Exp and Skill Points. Skill Points per battle are set while Exp is not.
--Skills can only be upgraded so far until a certain badge is received. This eliminates grinding for Skill Points.
--A Pokemon's Skill gauge (where the points are allocated, much like the Exp gauge) differs for the Pokemon. For example, Wingull's Surf Skill gauge would be smaller than Mijumaru's Surf Skill gauge.

If there's any loopholes in this system, just let me know. I spent all of math class thinking about this. :D

I like it. I actually like it a lot. I don't know that Skill Points would be that useful though. I think that the badge system could still work in its place.

Smo-King
May 16th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Getting around HMs is really quite easy, it would just take a bit of game design ingenuity. Game Freak has been lazy the past few Generations, that's all. HMs in the end are no more than barriers to prevent progression, which all RPGs have. A more organic and less arbitrary alternative has to exist.

I would suggest turning the HMs into "licenses" of sorts, only usable on the overworld. Each Pokémon is able to perform some of these overworld tasks, depending on their species. In that regard, this system is not much different from the current HM system, however I would propose taking HMs out of battle entirely, because really the problem is the movesets. Make HMs an overworld only thing, dependent entirely on the Pokémon's species (and not having to physically learn any moves) I think would pretty much solve the problem.

Gymnotide
May 16th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Why can't we just give HM attributes to some attacks and remove the HMs altogether?

What I mean is you will still have the HMs if you want to teach them to a Pokemon, but you can use those moves' effects outside of battle using other moves (like Brick Break also has the effect of Rock Smash Outside of battle). So, if you have a certain move, you will be able to use an HM effect outside of battle, but you don't necessarily have to have the HM attack. Obviously, there need to be prerequisites to meet in order to use some effects, but that's easily implemented. That way, we can have attacks other than HM moves and still use them, i.e.:

Obviously, I won't list all the moves for each ability, but here are some suggestions.

Fly to different towns = Fly
Escape from caves = Dig, Teleport, Return (?)

Cross water, climb waterfalls, and pass whirlpools = Surf, Whirlpool, Waterfall (all these moves allow you to use Surf in the overworld) (this will also allow you to climb waterfalls and cross whirlpools, but only after you obtain the proper prerequisites. While surfing, all you have to do is attempt to move through the object and it will happen automatically, without asking a question)

Illuminate dark areas = Flash, Flash Cannon, Signal Beam, Aura Sphere, Ember, Sunny Day, Will-o-Wisp, Doom Desire, etc.

Slice small shrubs = Cut, Scratch, Slash, Night Slash, X-Scissor, Fury Cutter, Dragon Claw, Cross Chop, Karate Chop, Air Slash, Air Cutter, Razor Leaf, Leaf Blade, Guillotine, Vice Grip, Cross Poison, Psycho Cut, Metal Claw, etc.

Crush rocks = Rock Smash, Cross Chop, Karate Chop, Stomp, Brick Break, Crabhammer, Wood Hammer, Rock Wrecker, Crush Claw, Earthquake, Dragon Rush, Power Whip, Vine Whip, Bone Club, Bonemerang, Bone Rush, Skull Bash, Meteor Mash, Needle Arm, etc.

Move boulders = Strength, Superpower, Bulk Up, Focus Energy, Brave Bird, Shadow Force, Power Whip, Vine Whip, Wring Out, Psychic, Confusion, Power Trick, Iron Head, Gyro Ball, etc.

A lot of Pokemon know the moves I've suggested, so you can still make a diverse team in-game without using too many HMs. At the same time, HM moves will still exist if you can't find a match (so you can teach them to your team if you really wanted to).

Redrup
May 16th, 2010, 09:02 PM
I think, after you have beaten the respective gym leader for a particular HM, then you should be able to, for example, cut down all trees with all able Pokémon - without having to fill up your move list with otherwise useless attacks/abilities.

Those who are arguing that it should stay the way it is; at the end of the day, it's a game where fun should be the priority. The removal of bland, repetitive HM use would definitely make the next generation more fun for me personally.

colcolstyles
May 16th, 2010, 09:32 PM
While I, like most players, found HMs incredibly irritating, strangely I don't want Game Freak to remove them. Even though I may despise them, they've become a fundamental part of the Pokémon game formula as a broken bridge tactic. Not only that, but sometimes you don't realize how much you miss something until it's gone. Sure, we all hate tugging along an HM slave to light up caves as much as we hate battling Tentacool after Tentacool on the open seas but that's what makes the games what they are. When we sarcastically joke about how exciting that battle with that one Zubat was, it's a little inside joke that all of us Pokémon fans can enjoy.

Anyways, though I'd be all for a modification of the system (the idea of special HM slots appeals to me, as does the idea proposed in the post above mine), I doubt that Game Freak will remove them at this point because they've become so ingrained into the gameplay of the adventure games. Also, isn't one of the main morals of Pokémon something about working together with your pokémon to overcome obstacles and all that good stuff? If we could simply cut down shrubs with chainsaws and shatter rocks with jackhammers, what message would that send to our youth?

Penutz
May 17th, 2010, 01:30 AM
Get items. For tree cutting perhaps a knife/sword. For rock smashing an axe or something. Surfing a surfboard. Waterfall perhaps some surfboard upgrade. Strength perhaps just well...push.

JAK3
May 17th, 2010, 01:36 AM
What if you just teach your Pokemon HM's but they don't actually take up the Move space. Like I teach a Flying Type Pokemon Fly, so I can use fly, but when he is in battle, Fly doesn't show up.

A Pixy
May 17th, 2010, 03:21 AM
I may sound like an old RBY fanboy, but I liked it better when we only had Fly, Surf, Strength, Cut and Flash. Too many are just annoying. Especially DeFog. Stupidest. Move. Ever.

xDaisuke0
May 17th, 2010, 04:02 AM
A simple idea is making them into Key Items, Boat/Surfboard = Surf Knife=Cut, etc.

But I dont know about having Knives in a kid's game...So maybe just let a Pokemon naturally be able to do it, like any Pokemon who could learn cut would be able to after the certain Gym Badge, without learning it. It'd make it a tad bit easier although you'd still have to go to your PC for some Pokes.