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HannahHacker
May 27th, 2010, 12:26 PM
Since the more advanced technology has come out, I've always wanted to have the option of making your own character sprite on the pokemon games, just for that even more slightly personal appeal! Even if it's just a simple matter of changing the hair style and colour, if clothing would be too much hassle to tamper with.
Sorry if a thread has already been started discussing this.
x

PiPVoda
May 27th, 2010, 12:52 PM
I can only see Game Freak letting us do that in a pokemon MMORPG...which we probably won't get for like another 50 years. :D

HannahHacker
May 27th, 2010, 01:43 PM
Thanks for your reply,
I was planning on living until at least seventy and still going strong playing pokemon then anyway!
x

shuppet88
May 27th, 2010, 07:55 PM
I think that would be a great idea...I always feel funny finding that I never saw a brown person, until the battle frontier brain from D/P/Pt named Dahlia. I think she was supposed to be Brazilian? Cuz her pants are very tight like Brazilian jeans. I bet a lot of people would like to make their sprites look more like them. But that would probably cost too much data that they might want to spend on other features.

institutions
May 27th, 2010, 08:06 PM
Yeah, I really like this idea, I just don't think it will happen.
If it did the choices would have to be very limited.
For every small change to the character, they'd have to make new walking/running/biking/surfing/fishing/etc. overworld sprites.
For male anddd female.

It really would be cool though.
It'd add a little variety to peoples characters.

Kirbychu
May 27th, 2010, 08:37 PM
I think that would be a great idea...I always feel funny finding that I never saw a brown person, until the battle frontier brain from D/P/Pt named Dahlia. I think she was supposed to be Brazilian? Cuz her pants are very tight like Brazilian jeans. I bet a lot of people would like to make their sprites look more like them. But that would probably cost too much data that they might want to spend on other features.
There's also this guy.
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/f/f4/Barlow.png/150px-Barlow.png

As cool as character customization sounds, I don't think we'll get it this gen, unless it's something really minor. If they come out with a Stadium type thing for this gen that will probably have customization like PBR.

shuppet88
May 27th, 2010, 08:56 PM
Who is that guy?! He looks German because of his clothes. They look like liederhosen for some reason. Or a weird Final Fantasy outfit like Tidus...anyway I wish sprites could be adjusted! But it's probably way too late. :/

Kirbychu
May 27th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Who is that guy?! He looks German because of his clothes. They look like liederhosen for some reason. Or a weird Final Fantasy outfit like Tidus...anyway I wish sprites could be adjusted! But it's probably way too late. :/
That's Barlow, a NPC from the spin-off Pokemon Ranger 2. In other words, he's not relevant to anything.

If we do get customization I think it will be really simple like changing the color of your hat. I just hate seeing everyone on wi-fi looking the same in battle. :(

HannahHacker
May 28th, 2010, 03:20 AM
I just thought it would be a great idea, even on lower-quality sprite sites like Habbohotel you have a certain creativity when it comes to adjusting your sprite. I'm not asking for us to be able to pick the nose, ears and shoe size of our sprites, just simple things like hair colour or perhaps a second set of clothing to choose from!
I'm sure it's a coincidence that Dahlia and Barlow are the only sprites of other skin tone in the games, but things like this could be adjusted so easily!
x

Roxas358
May 28th, 2010, 06:52 AM
Hm. Weird. I was just thinking about this same thing a couple of days ago.
I doubt it will be possible for a long time, but it would be awesome.

shuppet88
May 28th, 2010, 09:29 AM
I just don't understand why it would not be possible for a long time. The handheld series is pretty much the main one and most Pokemon fans only play them; I think they're just scared of making weird racial situations. I don't think there would be any though. It would make the games a bit more personal than just getting the choice of a different sex...although that change was a great milestone.

Lornami
May 28th, 2010, 09:56 AM
Hmmm.
:[ Wishful thinking, but now that the pokemon battle sprites seem to be animated because they are moving 'parts', I wonder if they would start seeing trainers as 'parts' so, as you have the have the hair as a separate part you would have the base of the head. So it's easier to put different hair on!

But...that's really not much of a correlation.
xD I just do also wish we could have some customization. I mean, there are lesser games that have more customization than pokemon does.

HannahHacker
May 28th, 2010, 12:30 PM
I just don't understand why it would not be possible for a long time. The handheld series is pretty much the main one and most Pokemon fans only play them; I think they're just scared of making weird racial situations. I don't think there would be any though. It would make the games a bit more personal than just getting the choice of a different sex...although that change was a great milestone.

Oh I remember the times when we all seethed our way through blue, red, yellow and beyond with our male sprites. It was a great change!!
I've just been playing Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia again and the depth of detail the sprites have is great, why can't we have that amount on other pokemon games that have come out afterwards? I'd have to compare the two closely, but I actually think the pokemon sprites in Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia are better than the ones in the recent Heartgold Soulsilver, sorry if anyone disagrees, just my opinion.
x

Hmmm.
:[ Wishful thinking, but now that the pokemon battle sprites seem to be animated because they are moving 'parts', I wonder if they would start seeing trainers as 'parts' so, as you have the have the hair as a separate part you would have the base of the head. So it's easier to put different hair on!

But...that's really not much of a correlation.
xD I just do also wish we could have some customization. I mean, there are lesser games that have more customization than pokemon does.

Sometimes, I wish that the makers of pokemon games would come onto these discussion boards and see what we users think and put it into effect for future games, or at least give them some thought!
A quick 'drag and drop' dress up the doll sequence at the start of the game, between the legendary 'Are you a girl?' and 'What's your name, again?' questions would soothe so much angst. If we can dress up nintendogs why can't we have a few easily clicked and dragged items of hair and clothing for our pokemon sprites? Just a few personal effects?

I completely agree with the 'lesser games that have more customization that pokemon' statement, any games you could list just to further back up that point?
x

Sora's Nobody
May 28th, 2010, 03:36 PM
Yeah character custimization, would be great, but theres already official artwork so that probably not happen, sadly :( and about the dark skinned people thing, i guess they would think people would think it was racist if they included them NOW, they should probably have done it from the first game.

HannahHacker
May 28th, 2010, 05:04 PM
Yeah character custimization, would be great, but theres already official artwork so that probably not happen, sadly :( and about the dark skinned people thing, i guess they would think people would think it was racist if they included them NOW, they should probably have done it from the first game.

Yeah, but how would they have made that possible from the first games, if by that you mean colour-free games such as red and blue? Would the character's faces have to be a light shade of gray? Come to think of it, the Hikers seemed to have that.
x

HugSomebody
May 28th, 2010, 05:29 PM
When the silhouettes for Pokemon B/W protagonists came out, I got excited. I imagined that the game would let us fill in our character's looks, opposed to having a set character already. And then the filled in and colored picture for the characters came out. xD

Sora's Nobody
May 28th, 2010, 06:06 PM
Yeah, but how would they have made that possible from the first games, if by that you mean colour-free games such as red and blue? Would the character's faces have to be a light shade of gray? Come to think of it, the Hikers seemed to have that.
x Oh... yeah! i didnt think about the black and white thing in the older games, and the hikers probably just have a sun tan!

Rich Boy Rob
May 29th, 2010, 01:22 AM
Although I'd love customisation, I doubt they'll include it in BW. It'll more likely be in the next console RPG (at least if Game Freak finally suck it up and make one...), just like PBR had. It's much easier to change 3d object's "clothes" because it simply involves changing the texture, not creating hundreds of variants of the same sprite.

MrsNorrington
May 29th, 2010, 01:30 AM
I would love it if they created a Pokemon game where we could modify our character. If not modifiable characters, they should at least let us choose from the different playable characters from each generation, or just create a variety of different appearances to choose from.

Hibaru
May 29th, 2010, 02:59 AM
I would love it if they created a Pokemon game where we could modify our character. If not modifiable characters, they should at least let us choose from the different playable characters from each generation, or just create a variety of different appearances to choose from.

I would really like that and think like that before the 5th Gen announce. When I'm on the other Forum, the admin give me an Infraction and seems to hate me though. I actually think if only they create 2 New 5th gen games which each games has Multiple Main Characters. So when I don't like that Character, I'll just use the other one.

>Feelings<
May 29th, 2010, 03:09 AM
I'd love customization. Too bad they aren't considering this. At least five sets of clothes, and five sets of hair style would be great enough for now.

Hibaru
May 29th, 2010, 04:14 AM
Do you guys agree if the Orre region back again? I bet it'll probably for Wii!

SpawnHyuuga
May 29th, 2010, 04:25 AM
I don't see why it couldn't work out. Maybe something like the DS game "Tony Hawks' Downhill Jam" or "Animal Crossing (Wii/DS/GC)" where you could use the stylus to color your clothing. The better idea would be to store your "outfits" on the system memory, and then either:

A.) You share the default sprite to everyone else, but you can see your unique look.
B.) Wi-Fi Download of your friends/everyone to your DS system memory and then you can see them too!

HannahHacker
May 29th, 2010, 11:51 AM
To MrsNorrington:
Same here, although I’ve never thought about choosing from different gen. Characters it would be a nice change, maybe an option of choosing one of those gen. Sprites and then simply changing the hair colour and one item of clothing colour?

In response to Hibaru:
I don’t really think that Infractions and the like are to be spoken about in this thread, so let’s just close that right there by saying maybe you accidently posted it in the wrong thread, as Forum Admins are unbiased opinions not prone to ‘hating’ anybody. So let’s just leave that there! Multiple main characters would be very fun! I dislike the female sprite in the upcoming black/white games.

To >Feelings<
I think what you said would be a great idea, and a small step towards full customization long-term.

In reply to SpawnHyuuga:
As I’ve said in earlier comments, they should seriously think about doing product consumer research on here, ‘see what the customer’ wants, and how they can improve to get a better product rating and increasing buying. I think your idea is a really good one and would be beneficial, it’s a shame that none of this will probably happen until, as Rich Boy Bob said, a better developed console is made.

~Wind~
May 29th, 2010, 01:20 PM
Maybe they could add a simple pallete change ability?
or at least different coloured clothes for wifi so we can still be the main trainer sprite but be able to be distinguished?
I hope so!

Wind

Hibaru
May 29th, 2010, 07:47 PM
In response to Hibaru:
I don’t really think that Infractions and the like are to be spoken about in this thread, so let’s just close that right there by saying maybe you accidently posted it in the wrong thread, as Forum Admins are unbiased opinions not prone to ‘hating’ anybody. So let’s just leave that there! Multiple main characters would be very fun! I dislike the female sprite in the upcoming black/white games.

Haha! yeah, you're right!

xxChazxx
May 29th, 2010, 09:27 PM
I like the idea, but it won't happen for a while. And I doubt I'll even play after this generation unless it's a bit better than the fourth.

Plus, my first character would be Gold.

JakeClowd
May 29th, 2010, 11:02 PM
You'd think It would be pretty easy to at least change the colors of your character. just select each part as a field.
Clothes
Skin
Hat
That would seem pretty easy

Rich Boy Rob
May 30th, 2010, 02:18 AM
You'd think It would be pretty easy to at least change the colors of your character. just select each part as a field.
Clothes
Skin
Hat
That would seem pretty easy

That's not the problem. The problem would be they would have to make a new sprite for every conceivable combination of the options. For example say you chose Clothes 1, Skin 4 and Hat 2, they would need to create an individual sprite with that setup. Along with 111, 112, 113 and etcetera. As I said before; this would only realistically work in a game with 3d character models.

OverTheRainbowSoilder
June 19th, 2010, 03:33 PM
Which sprites do you believe will be used for Pokemon released in previous generations? The battle with Zoroark shows the usage of Platinum sprites,but I believe Heartgold/Soulsilver sprites would look nicer. Which do you think will be used?

Golden Heart
June 19th, 2010, 03:46 PM
I think they'll end up using them from both. Some to show the real color better. [Like Gligar]

OverTheRainbowSoilder
June 19th, 2010, 03:50 PM
Yea, hopefully the sprites that look the nicest will be the most oftenly used

SkieTheKitsune
June 19th, 2010, 03:55 PM
You never know, they may make new sprites again. They do have to make animations for every single Pokemon, after all. :P

Granted, they can always add animations to the older sprites, but still... Also did they make new sprites for the 3 Legendary Dogs? I thought I saw new sprites in the Zoroark preview videos that have been floating around Youtube.

shookie
June 19th, 2010, 03:57 PM
Considering they're changing the aesthetics to battling, my guess is they'll make new ones. They seem to make new sprites for each new game anyway.

SkieTheKitsune
June 19th, 2010, 03:59 PM
That is true. Although that's not usually the case with remake games, like Emerald. (or HeartGold and SoulSilver for about the majority of the Pokemon from Gen3 onward :V)

Golden Heart
June 19th, 2010, 04:01 PM
The video I saw had an Entei that looked like the current one. o-o;

OverTheRainbowSoilder
June 19th, 2010, 04:01 PM
Well I watched the video again and Entei was in its Platinum sprite form so I am still debating

shookie
June 19th, 2010, 04:04 PM
That is true. Although that's not usually the case with remake games, like Emerald. (or HeartGold and SoulSilver for about the majority of the Pokemon from Gen3 onward :V)
A lot of the Gen III/IV Pokémon got new sprites between D/P and Pt/HGSS. Since Platinum came out a year before HG/SS came out (in Japan) they probably didn't see any point in remaking sprites they literally just remade.

SkieTheKitsune
June 19th, 2010, 04:07 PM
I know, I assumed that would be the reason. It would seem like a waste to re-make all those sprites, right? :3

Also, now that my own question was answered, I think I'll go check out that video again, now I'm kinda curious.

OverTheRainbowSoilder
June 19th, 2010, 04:08 PM
A lot of the Gen III/IV Pokémon got new sprites between D/P and Pt/HGSS. Since Platinum came out a year before HG/SS came out (in Japan) they probably didn't see any point in remaking sprites they literally just remade.

I know, I assumed that would be the reason. It would seem like a waste to re-make all those sprites, right? :3

Also, now that my own question was answered, I think I'll go check out that video again, now I'm kinda curious.

Hahahha i see my curiousness has spread around :D

Jerme
June 19th, 2010, 04:42 PM
remember when sneasel was brown in gold version then changed to the dark green bluish color in crystal?

and i noticed something weird in hg/ss. go to the dress up room and it uses platinum sprites, not he hg/ss ones.

MistahDude
June 21st, 2010, 05:23 PM
Thanks for your reply,
I was planning on living until at least seventy and still going strong playing pokemon then anyway!
x

same here lol

Pokemon for life!

MistahDude
June 21st, 2010, 07:28 PM
Which sprites do you believe will be used for Pokemon released in previous generations? The battle with Zoroark shows the usage of Platinum sprites,but I believe Heartgold/Soulsilver sprites would look nicer. Which do you think will be used?

It doesnt really matter because the sprites will be animated.

JP
June 21st, 2010, 08:08 PM
I'm really hoping for completely new sprites, though it is seeming like we'll just be getting 4th gen sprites with animations.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
June 21st, 2010, 08:16 PM
I also think that they probably will reuse the generation IV sprites next gen to give them time to work on animating instead of drawing new static one....

enderalex
June 22nd, 2010, 01:50 AM
haaa yea they're probably just gonna animate the old sprites but id love if they actually made new ones :)mainly cuz this is basically a revamp of the old pokemon series so i figure everything should be revamped :p

myrrh25
June 22nd, 2010, 02:09 AM
Well, considering each new generation has had new sprites, or a touch-up to the graphics of previous sprites. I believe they'll be giving us 493 new sprites for the old Pokemon, and 157 new sprites for the new Pokemon.

Think about it, the (rumoured to be from two different sources) 157 new Pokemon's sprites will be graphically superior to the 493 previous, and that'd just look goofy in-game. You'd need all 650 sprites to be of the same graphical enhancement.

Afflicted One
June 22nd, 2010, 03:54 AM
It will be a mixture of sprites from the 4th gen games, while a few may get revamped to allow for greater animation range.

Cherrim
June 22nd, 2010, 04:14 AM
Which sprites do you believe will be used for Pokemon released in previous generations? The battle with Zoroark shows the usage of Platinum sprites,but I believe Heartgold/Soulsilver sprites would look nicer. Which do you think will be used?
Merged into the general sprite discussion thread.

dieter57
June 22nd, 2010, 08:25 AM
i like the idea of being able to change your character. but i don't think gamfreak would do that anytime soon.

Esmas
June 28th, 2010, 07:48 AM
So, do you think we'll get to actually customize our player this generation? I mean, we've seen accessories and the such for our Pokémon, but that's only for contests, and I'd like to see something more personalized, like change our character's clothing colour at least. For example, like in Super Smash Bros., we are given the choice of four or so colour sets sometime in the game, or as you are choosing your character. I'd choose the female character if she wasn't wearing pink everywhere ;___;

Maybe you could also change the clothing or designs on our character, sort of like customizing our Poké Balls with Ball Capsules. Like changing pants to shorts, or a T-shirt to a coat, or given the choice to wear a hat or not. Small things like this make a game more personal, feeling as if you're the only one that looks like this (which is why I liked the "Follow Me" feature in Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver). I really that Game Freak considers adding this :D

Would you like this feature implemented? Why or why not?

Mujahid
June 28th, 2010, 08:12 AM
Well from the screen shots it appears that customization won't be there...however we will be able to customize our character for wi-fi

Patchisou Yutohru
June 28th, 2010, 08:27 AM
Character customizations are something I've always wanted. I don't like having a generic character the same as everyone else. Even if you could only change the color of the clothes, the hair color, etc. I would really think that as a more personable approach to the game. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening - especially with information released and screenshots. Seems like that would be something that would have been noticed on screenshots if they did include that feature.

Well from the screen shots it appears that customization won't be there...however we will be able to customize our character for wi-fi
????

lol, what are you talking about?

Mujahid
June 28th, 2010, 08:32 AM
Character customizations are something I've always wanted. I don't like having a generic character the same as everyone else. Even if you could only change the color of the clothes, the hair color, etc. I would really think that as a more personable approach to the game. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening - especially with information released and screenshots. Seems like that would be something that would have been noticed on screenshots if they did include that feature.


????

lol, what are you talking about?

LOL..sorry to confuse u ..I meant we won't be able to customize our character for in game play...however there will be customization for wi-fi battling..Look at the latest vdo..our character changes when we enter that white high link thing..

Bloothump
June 28th, 2010, 08:47 AM
Well, I'm always very picky about customization, so I've always been glad that pokemon does it for me. However, I would like some little thing like outfit customization in contests. Like, the choice of dressing up in a tuxedo, a cowboy get-up, a big pikachu costume or in a prince costume.

mortisha
June 28th, 2010, 09:05 AM
I think in-game character customizing would be a bit too much for a Pokemon game tbh, but I heard you can customize your character for wifi, so thats good :P I would like it if they added that, but it would be a bit much.

XxRogueTrainerxX
June 28th, 2010, 09:14 AM
I think character customization is a good feature to put into the game as long as they don't make it too complicated. Since Pokémon games are often marketed towards kids, there's a certain limit to how difficult or confusing a feature should be. I think you could definately change your outfit, hair color, and maybe even skin color, but nothing too hardcore, if you know what I mean.

BeachBoy
June 28th, 2010, 09:29 AM
As much as I love Esmas, merged his thread to an already existing one.

Pokestick, good times.
June 28th, 2010, 09:35 AM
Character Customization = Good.

Creating the sprites themselves.. that's something else. Firstly, some aren't that good at creating sprites, and that can make the players heavily unhappy with their characters and possibly make the opponents throw up..
Plus I'm guessing some will exploit it and draw inappropriate things, or such that don't make sense. And that doesn't make it fun anymore, imo.

Anyway, CC is plain awesome, and I'd love to see it in the Main series some day. But it's not gonna happen in these games, obviously, probably not later this generation either.
Next gen perhaps :P

Azure-Supernova
June 28th, 2010, 09:46 AM
Ack! My post from the new thread disappeared... and I can't remember what it said... I want character customization tooo.... maybe just a little so I'm not stuck as "Generic Anime Hero E"

Prince of the Sea
June 28th, 2010, 09:55 AM
No character customization?

Wait a minute, guys and gals... I saw the new Oha Suta trailer. (http://www.filb.de/1332)
Look closely at 00:37 to 00:40. I saw the male protagonist, with a white/pink cap and spiky brown hair walking on a tan bridge in the sky. He walked into a mysterious field, and suddenly, the world was in greyscale, except for him, who had no hat, and a blondish brown neat haircut.

Azure-Supernova
June 28th, 2010, 10:28 AM
No character customization?

Wait a minute, guys and gals... I saw the new Oha Suta trailer. (http://www.filb.de/1332)
Look closely at 00:37 to 00:40. I saw the male protagonist, with a white/pink cap and spiky brown hair walking on a tan bridge in the sky. He walked into a mysterious field, and suddenly, the world was in greyscale, except for him, who had no hat, and a blondish brown neat haircut.

There's a possibility that could be a wi-fi only feature

Midnight the umbreon
June 28th, 2010, 11:49 AM
Do you guys agree if the Orre region back again? I bet it'll probably for Wii!
That would be awesome! But they should make it were you can actually catch wild pokemon Instead of having to steal other peoples pokemon. But stealing other peoples pokemon on colloseum was fun =3

Jerme
June 28th, 2010, 11:51 AM
No character customization?

Wait a minute, guys and gals... I saw the new Oha Suta trailer. (http://www.filb.de/1332)
Look closely at 00:37 to 00:40. I saw the male protagonist, with a white/pink cap and spiky brown hair walking on a tan bridge in the sky. He walked into a mysterious field, and suddenly, the world was in greyscale, except for him, who had no hat, and a blondish brown neat haircut.

idk but what caught my eye were those pkmn. are those new or fake? i dont see a thread of them

ShivaDF
July 4th, 2010, 09:51 PM
Is it just me, or are the sprites for these games getting worse? They look really pixel-y to me. I know it might just be that they are photos, but...

Angelroid
July 4th, 2010, 10:00 PM
It's because they are Beta ones.

We'll see in 2 months.

Hiroshi Sotomura
July 4th, 2010, 10:09 PM
Given how many have been shown, I doubt they're beta sprites of sorts. Instead, I'm guessing that the sprites will be zoomed in and out during battle for certain attacks and stuff.

Myles
July 4th, 2010, 10:15 PM
The back-sprites appear to be twice their 'real' size, with four pixels taking up what one should. But some of the latest screenshots being thrown around here lately have been really zoomed in, which makes it look worse.

It might be less noticeable on the DS screen.

MistahDude
July 4th, 2010, 11:27 PM
Eh they look perfectly fine to me...

Zeta Patchouli
July 5th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Look fine to me, too. I actually like the sprites like this. Not saying they're masterpieces, but then again, they never were. Blown up, shrunken down, doesn't matter, I still liked the pokemon. Yes, I'll admit, there will probably be one or two that look ugly when the camera moves... but so what? I don't really care that much anyway.

o0PinkSquid0o
July 5th, 2010, 12:16 AM
I did notice they looked a bit blocky and not as 'tidy' as the older game sprites, but I was hoping it was because they were still working on them :S hmm here's hoping they fix them up a little.

Ravecat
July 5th, 2010, 12:20 AM
I've explained this before. This thread has been made like four times.
Let me see if I can dig up my old post about it.

Okay, I can't. I'll write a new one.

Long story short, the sprites are of the same if not better quality than Generation 4. They do appear pixelled though, and there are two major contributing factors to this. Neither of which have anything at all to do with it being in beta.
• 1. The sprites are not saved as a single image anymore, they are saved as separate pieces and stitched together by the engine. This is so they can create detailed animations without the need for individual frames. This, in pixel-work, can create a jagged effect when a piece is rotated.
• 2. The camera is dynamic. This means it is not static, or still, anymore. Sprites are composed of individual pixels, like any image, and as such when you zoom in an out of it some distortion occurs. This creates the effect of it being highly pixellated.

The great thing about each of these things, though, is that when the battle system is in motion you will barely be able to notice them.

Myles
July 5th, 2010, 12:42 AM
I've explained this before. This thread has been made like four times.
Let me see if I can dig up my old post about it.

Okay, I can't. I'll write a new one.

Long story short, the sprites are of the same if not better quality than Generation 4. They do appear pixelled though, and there are two major contributing factors to this.
• 1. The sprites are not saved as a single image anymore, they are saved as separate pieces and stitched together by the engine. This is so they can create detailed animations without the need for individual frames. This, in pixel-work, can create a jagged effect when a piece is rotated.
• 2. The camera is dynamic. This means it is not static, or still, anymore. Sprites are composed of individual pixels, like any image, and as such when you zoom in an out of it some distortion occurs. This creates the effect of it being highly pixellated.

The great thing about each of these things, though, is that when the battle system is in motion you will barely be able to notice them.

Neither of those things prevent it from not being pixelated though. If the sprites were, say, twice as big as they currently are, they shouldn't be pixelated (unless it focusses up on one, in which case the sprite would need to be bigger still).

So, really, the real reason they are pixelated, is because it would be too much work to make the sprites bigger. So they can just make them small, so that even when they are not being focussed in on, they look pixelated. Focussing out makes them look less pixelated, but for the most part they're not being focussed out on.

Beechlgz
July 5th, 2010, 12:45 AM
I don't like the animations more than anything else, they look to uncoordinated like the pokemon are trying to do some weird dance... and failing.

The movements might be contributing to the over-pixelled look.

Ravecat
July 5th, 2010, 12:45 AM
Neither of those things prevent it from not being pixelated though. If the sprites were, say, twice as big as they currently are, they shouldn't be pixelated (unless it focusses up on one, in which case the sprite would need to be bigger still).

So, really, the real reason they are pixelated, is because it would be too much work to make the sprites bigger. So they can just make them small, so that even when they are not being focussed in on, they look pixelated. Focussing out makes them look less pixelated, but for the most part they're not being focussed out on.
Er, yes they do?

Because then if you zoom OUT of a huge sprite, it will be just as ruined.

Sprites are not capable of remaining pixel-perfect in a dynamic environment.

Myles
July 5th, 2010, 12:55 AM
We're not talking about perfection. We're talking about pixelation (a.k.a. using more than one pixel on the screen to make up a single pixel of the image). Like this:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2112nfd.png

Scaling down is done in every 3D game, ever. And it looks way better than scaling up.

Ravecat
July 5th, 2010, 01:04 AM
Of course scaling down is done in 3D, it's completely different when you're doing it to a sprite.

x.05 and x4 both look less-than-great, regardless. Both create "pixellation".

Sprites only truly look good at x1.


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/emmy0/Diagram.png

The effect you demonstrated does not exist in Black and White, they know better than that.

MistahDude
July 5th, 2010, 01:17 AM
At least the sprites are constantly moving.

Given how many have been shown, I doubt they're beta sprites of sorts. Instead, I'm guessing that the sprites will be zoomed in and out during battle for certain attacks and stuff.

All fire attacks so far seem to pan the camera backwards.

Myles
July 5th, 2010, 01:45 AM
Many 3D games scale sprites too. That's not a very good scale. Here, with Direct3D:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6261/charizardscale.png

Ravecat
July 5th, 2010, 02:34 AM
Exactly, they all look horrible.

But the upscale I did was more accurate to the technique they use (it's clean), yours isn't.

Scaling, in combination with movement and rotation creates these negative effects, which are barely noticeable in motion.

Making the sprite larger will not change this.

Myles
July 5th, 2010, 03:34 AM
100%-70% look fine. Your upscale is 200%, that's why it looks cleaner (since it's exactly four pixels per single pixel of the original image). Exactly 200% is unrealistic in practice.

Also keep in mind that with larger sprites (the way I say it should be) the 100% one would be on screen for most of the time. Lower percentages would only come up when moving back to show some attacks. With yours it's the ~200% that's showing almost all the time.

The scaling mine uses is perfectly within the capabilities of the DS. Also the default sprite size would be about the size of the largest Charizard in the last image I posted, so the small features like the eyes and teeth will have more pixels available to them in the smaller size, so would look even better then this.

I can't believe you think upscaling looks better than downscaling. Oh, and pixelation isn't less noticeable with motion. After all, we've seen them in motion.

empty streets
July 5th, 2010, 03:45 AM
Maybe it's not the sprites that look bad, but the pokemon design xD
Joking.. And yeah, the zoomed sprites really look horrible.

Ravecat
July 5th, 2010, 03:52 AM
100%-70% look fine. Your upscale is 200%, that's why it looks cleaner (since it's exactly four pixels per single pixel of the original image). Exactly 200% is unrealistic in practice.

Also keep in mind that with larger sprites (the way I say it should be) the 100% one would be on screen for most of the time. Lower percentages would only come up when moving back to show some attacks. With yours it's the ~200% that's showing almost all the time.

The scaling mine uses is perfectly within the capabilities of the DS. Also the default sprite size would be about the size of the largest Charizard in the last image I posted, so the small features like the eyes and teeth will have more pixels available to them in the smaller size, so would look even better then this.

I can't believe you think upscaling looks better than downscaling. Oh, and pixelation isn't less noticeable with motion. After all, we've seen them in motion.
In 3D objects and other images? No, downscaling looks better.

In the world of pixel-art? Up-scaling (by 200%, which you say would never be used, but then you say would be used most) is far, far more attractive.
Pixel-art is supposed to be viewed pixel-by-pixel, and downscaling ruins this. If your idea made any sense, it's what Gamefreak would be doing.

This is coming from someone who's spent over a decade now in the spriting community: Half the artists deliberately upscale their works to 200% for better visibility.

Downscaling sprites looks horrible, just like upscaling them by anything short of 200% does. From what I can tell in screenshots, the backsprites are scaled by 200%. The pixels are perfect, and clean; they aren't distorted by the 3D engine, and this is a very important factor.
By the way, judging by the videos (which yes, we have seen in motion, and that's my point; they look great), the only time the backsprites are 200% is when you're choosing your move. You're not even looking at them during this period (and they're obscured anyway). The perfect, 100% sprites are shown during the battle animation, which you are watching.

Oh, also, in your image the 100% sprite isn't even clean, you've damaged all of them in their entirety, which is why pixel-artists with integrity refuse to do this.
The fact of the matter is that you are adding filters that degrade the pixels, and this goes against the very point of using pixel-art.
If they wanted a system like that you would be using vectors or 3D models. Pixel-art is just that; art.

Myles
July 5th, 2010, 04:36 AM
I said exactly 200% is unrealistic in practice. If it's 199.5% or 200.5% it won't have that same effect (~ means about).

This isn't the pixel art community, it's the game community. Just because games use pixel art doesn't change that. Gamers tend to not like 200% sprites unless they're going for the retro look. Pokemon isn't going for the retro look. Which is why this has repeating come up here and will continue to; you can bet on it being mentioned in every second (if not first) review too.

Pixel art is used in games because pixel-by-pixel is practical, not because of the beauty of the pixels and nothing can tarnish it full stop. That's why downscaling sprites has never been a stranger with games.

The reason Game Freak hasn't done this is, as I said, it would require animated sprites to be twice the size they currently are, at least. For ~600 Pokemon, that's a lot of work.

The 100% sprite's changes (as with the rest) is a technique commonly used in sprite games to make them look smoother (remember, I said I used Direct3D to make it). It's not done when just admiring them outside of games for the reasons you said. Games use sprites; games use filters.

Listing how long you've been spriting is irrelevant. I've been programming games for a decade. <-- See that was irrelevant too.

And remember, we're not talking about exactly 200% anyway. And you said you didn't like the other sizes either. 200%ing your pixel art is a shortcut technique anyway (unless your going for the retro look).

Ravecat
July 5th, 2010, 04:42 AM
I'm well aware of what "~" can mean.

I hadn't mentioned how long I'd been spriting for (or even if I sprite), simply how long I had to view the practices of the community and people who work in the gaming industry.
They use 200% in gaming extremely frequently, as can potentially be seen in Black and White.

The backsprites in this game likely do use 200%, so "~200%" is irrelevant, and "199.5%" is wrong.
200% isn't unrealistic in the slightest, unless you're dealing with a poor dev, who doesn't know how to handle materials properly.

Find me a game that uses filters on its sprites and I'll find you ten that don't.

Nikorasu
July 5th, 2010, 12:46 PM
I've wanted this for ages! It would be so much more enjoyable O_O