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PearlShipper4Life
July 29th, 2010, 05:57 PM
No Brock? Every Generation its Ash and Brock.
This time, it sounds like Ash will be with an all new group.
No Brock, two new characters joining his side.
Do you like this idea?
I do, it'd bring some thing refreshing to the show.

okjoek
July 29th, 2010, 06:09 PM
idk, im afraid that if i say no il get flamed because lots of people dont like change.

whats nice is a temporary change, not perminent. i supose like tracey was implimented for one season i think before brock came back.

as for the girl charicters, they're constantly changing. they are the most disapointing loss because each of them has a part they contribute to a season before becoming forgoten, makes it seem like they're dispensable or something..

misty was more funny and a battler.

may came with max who was a cute addition for some variation and with the addition of contests.

dawn is more of a beuty queen focusing 100% on contests

i feel they've nerfed brock to the point where he just cooks food which is a disapointment =(

weedle_mchairybug
August 3rd, 2010, 07:23 PM
Well, I'd rather they'd either keep them all or remove them all. That much I can say.

By "remove them all." It means exactly what it says: They also have to remove Ash and Pikachu as well.

Jorah
August 4th, 2010, 12:15 AM
^ I actually agree with Weedle on this one. I would've preferred a whole new group rather than keeping Ash again, but I suppose we all knew that was never going to happen. It would've been nice if the anime was a little more like Pokespe and changed all the characters around every series, it makes more sense than advertising with a character from a game that's over 10 years old now, when there are newer characters.

Anyway, I like that 2 were changed this time, hopefully it'll be a little more refreshing since Brock has been dull for years.

Chad -
August 4th, 2010, 12:28 AM
A whole new group is better, IMO. Ash is becoming a cliche character. If they age Ash a bit, then I would be okay with him staying.

I actually like Brock, however, he is becoming useless now. I don't care about the female characters as long as they aren't useless, too.

Black Prince
August 4th, 2010, 01:07 AM
Hmm...I don't know, I'm afraid that if they change Ash as well, my feelings for Pokemon would surely change. (Even if I don't like Ash.)
But if the new character was Ethan, maybe I wouldn't mind, and my feelings for Pokemon wouldn't change. But I know it won't happen.
I think they should age Ash, yes. After all, he can't be ten years old forever. :/

weedle_mchairybug
August 4th, 2010, 06:54 AM
Basically, to me, it would have been far better if they just wrote Ash off the show during Battle Frontier's climax, since he already beat the Battle Frontier, which was implied to be stronger or on the same level as the Elite 4, so in that sense he had become a Pokemon Master.

Kirbychu
August 4th, 2010, 08:05 AM
I'm going to say no. Brock has been there for so long, that his removal has made me decide to finally stop watching the anime all together. Okay, that's not as drastic as it sounds, I only watched about 25 or so episodes of DP. :/

It feels like someone threw away your old toy that you still keep around, even just for the sake of remembering the old days.

I can't believe people thought Dawn was going to stay. :/

Charizardomination
August 4th, 2010, 08:12 AM
No I dont like it. Iris is in desperate need of a haircut and the green haired guy looks like a pansy and the fat guy is too old. I hated dawn so I dont care what happens to her but brock was the best. :( At least their keeping ash. :(

Dixie
August 4th, 2010, 08:25 AM
I'm not really sure how to answer this. I loved the latest teaming between Ash, Brock and Dawn. I wasn't keen on Dawn at the beginning but I warmed to her as the Diamond & Pearl saga continued. I'm really sad to see her leave but it's inevitable. The girl always leaves eventually.

As for Brock. I loved his character but he became increasingly mundane as a character because of the lack of plotlines and character developments. Maybe some time off screen could give the character and the writers some time to actually develop him alot more.

I think it's for the best but I doubt it's permanent since Brock is one of those character. An attachment to the series much like Ash, Jessie, James and Meowth is.

I hope it's a temporary fix but I wouldn't really lose much sleep over it since I'd rather have him doing something for himself than dragging his feet, acting as Ash's waiter. In my opinion.

A new group seems a bit of a leap of faith. Either it works or it's terrible. I think it's a great start to give us a rejuvenated feel to the decade old series and it may give us a bit of a distraction from the never growing Ash. XD. It feels brand new for once and for the first time for me. I'm pretty excited for the upcoming season because it has the element of surprise. Since I could practically predict what happens in each new region with Ash & Brock.

Change is good and it can also be bad.


No I dont like it. Iris is in desperate need of a haircut and the green haired guy looks like a pansy and the fat guy is too old. I hated dawn so I dont care what happens to her but brock was the best. :( At least their keeping ash. :(

Why don't you just give it a try. It may not be all that bad. Making assumptions before actually giving it a try never really helps anyone and hinders you from enjoying the series.

I'm going to say no. Brock has been there for so long, that his removal has made me decide to finally stop watching the anime all together. Okay, that's not as drastic as it sounds, I only watched about 25 or so episodes of DP. :/

It feels like someone threw away your old toy that you still keep around, even just for the sake of remembering the old days.

I can't believe people thought Dawn was going to say. :/


I agree with you. Brock was basically like a leg of the series and now it's gone, it may fall and break. I hope the time away gives the writers time to give Brock some good storylines. I mean, he is a breeder. Tell us there are Breeder conventions or meetings he can go to. XD

weedle_mchairybug
August 4th, 2010, 09:38 AM
Well, if there is a silver lining in this, its that at least we don't have to put up with Brock's antics anymore, at least for this saga.

Honestly, I'm a heterosexual male as well as a christian, and I somewhat find him repulsive due to the fact that he still tries to hit on a lot of women, even during the few times where the women actually do fall for him, he still leaves for another woman. It may not be as bad as Charlie Harper's antics, but it is still quite bad. What's even worse is that thanks to his antics as well as similar antics from similar characters in the media, it seems as though we are almost expected to act like this, and if we don't, we're automatically gay even if we have absolutely no attraction to the same sex. I was a victim of this.

Other than that, the other gripe I have against Brock is that he doesn't actually follow his goal. He's supposed to be a breeder, so why doesn't he do that goal? It would be better if he actually did follow Ash to further his goal, and not because Ash and his other friends can't cook to save their lives.

I'm also annoyed at how they did his departure and return during Johto-Hoenn's transition. Like Misty, Brock also left to take care of the Gym thanks to certain problems. However, unlike Misty, Brock ended up not retaking the Gym, when really, the state of the Gym would really require it, since it was in an even worse condition than Cerulean Gym. At least Cerulean Gym had the whole issue about her sisters leaving that nearly shut it down. With Pewter Gym, most likely it would have been shut down even IF the Gym Leader was present. I mean, the gym was unsafe and uncool, for how the Rock Pokemon nearly drowned as a result of Lola's idiotic decision to add a pool into the holes, and the bad decorations respectively. Because of what they said in the Cerulean Blues newsflash, with two-thirds of that, it's almost guaranteed that the gym would have been shut down even IF the Gym Leader was present. I'm actually surprised that it still continued to function. Then we get to Grating Spaces, which had Pewter Gym in an even WORSE condition than before, since not only did Pewter Gym get another makeover, it was an even worse one than before, and Lola even went as far as to accept painters to muck it up, Painters who, BTW, had an agenda for stealing their pokemon, and Forrest didn't even attempt to lead the gym or stop that vandalization, despite being the Gym Leader. Honestly, it was just bad that the writers basically cheated it. As far as I'm concerned, HE should have gotten the Misty treatment that Misty got due to that, not Misty.

GFA
August 4th, 2010, 09:50 AM
Well, if there is a silver lining in this, its that at least we don't have to put up with Brock's antics anymore, at least for this saga.

Honestly, I'm a heterosexual male as well as a christian, and I somewhat find him repulsive due to the fact that he still tries to hit on a lot of women, even during the few times where the women actually do fall for him, he still leaves for another woman. It may not be as bad as Charlie Harper's antics, but it is still quite bad. What's even worse is that thanks to his antics as well as similar antics from similar characters in the media, it seems as though we are almost expected to act like this, and if we don't, we're automatically gay even if we have absolutely no attraction to the same sex. I was a victim of this.


Cool your jets, its not like anything ever happened with the women. He's 15. Calm down. its still a kids show for Christ's sake

Tomackze
August 4th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Brock has gotten really "side-quest"-est because he is not a strong trainer anymore...

If he had taken his Crobat, then maybe I'd stick with it. But Brock isn't good

Vernikova
August 4th, 2010, 11:30 AM
I'd prefer if they keep at most one person from the previous series in each new series. I wouldn't want it to be the same person over and over again but it makes me feel like there's some kind of continuity in the series.

weedle_mchairybug
August 4th, 2010, 11:33 AM
I'd prefer if they keep at most one person from the previous series in each new series. I wouldn't want it to be the same person over and over again but it makes me feel like there's some kind of continuity in the series.

I see no point in it, due to my egalitarian stances. To me, it's either keep them all or remove them all. No exceptions.

PearlShipper4Life
August 4th, 2010, 11:56 AM
I don't know if Brock will come back next series either, I think from now on they'll keep replacing two of his friends instead of just the girl. LOL Maybe they felt they were being unfair or some thingXD That or they saw how unpopular he was latley. There's gotta be some reason why there getting rid of him finally. I'm suprised a lot of you want to keep him here, all he does is flirt with girls and between you and me I've gotten tired of that.

Vernikova
August 4th, 2010, 01:53 PM
I see no point in it, due to my egalitarian stances. To me, it's either keep them all or remove them all. No exceptions.

I wouldn't want them to do. I never liked the idea of having a whole new cast each saga but having the same cast each saga would be boring.

GFA
August 4th, 2010, 02:03 PM
I don't know if Brock will come back next series either, I think from now on they'll keep replacing two of his friends instead of just the girl. LOL Maybe they felt they were being unfair or some thingXD That or they saw how unpopular he was latley. There's gotta be some reason why there getting rid of him finally. I'm suprised a lot of you want to keep him here, all he does is flirt with girls and between you and me I've gotten tired of that.

Meh. As long as it isnt Tracey. But Dento looks like a stereotypical homosexual, which is ... Well, Im not sure exactly.

Diablerie
August 5th, 2010, 02:21 AM
Brock and Dawn have been dull lately... They've become really generic and do very little, other than in sidequesty filler episodes. It's about time for them to go now, they've been with the show long enough. I don't mind that Ash is staying; like Vernikova said earlier, the show would feel weird and the continuity would feel lost if all of the main characters changed.

I don't mind Iris or Dento either (i doubt that'll be their English names though). I think they look sorta badass. Dento sorta has an air of Miles Edgeworth about him, for some reason.

I wonder if either one can cook? Otherwise Ash'll be definitely missing Brock and his cooking.

Semidos
August 5th, 2010, 04:56 AM
I wonder if either one can cook? Otherwise Ash'll be definitely missing Brock and his cooking.
I wouldn't care about that. They magically survived in Orange Island. They can once again.

As for topic. I don't want the whole new group. It would be nice to see character which Ash already traveled with. Not necessarily Brock.

Recluse
August 5th, 2010, 05:00 AM
Personally, I don't care about it. I won't be mad if he travels with new companions.

Mew~
August 5th, 2010, 05:54 AM
Well it looks like we are now anyways! :D

joacen
August 5th, 2010, 06:41 AM
2 new partners for Ash should definitely make things fresh for the new series. Brock does cook and provide for Ash, and he's always falling for any pretty girl he sees. I probably will miss Brock, but I think he's long overdue. It's time for some change.

Naruto Uzumaki
August 5th, 2010, 06:49 AM
I would actually would like to still see Ash in them because I want to see his journey :x

Kirbychu
August 5th, 2010, 07:28 AM
I wonder if either one can cook? Otherwise Ash'll be definitely missing Brock and his cooking.
It really makes me wonder if Brock will teach Ash how to cook before he leaves...

Nah, Ash will just mooch off of Dento.

★Symbiosis★
August 5th, 2010, 07:39 AM
I truthly love the idea of ash having 2 new friends join him and old ones disappear...but i am going to miss dawn,she was cute.

Darthbane2007
August 6th, 2010, 06:54 AM
It's about time! I mean, yeah we all miss misty/may/dawn and brock, but it's a breath of fresh air to an already stale series..

da_absol
August 6th, 2010, 02:39 PM
I originally was all for change. But i can't stand the character design of Iris. She is a WILD girl...ugh. Dento looks very interesting. I hope they will go to a lot more effort in explaining his backround. I will miss Brock, but he really didn't have that much part in the series besides being the caring teen over the group...and flirting for comic relief that got old.

weedle_mchairybug
August 20th, 2010, 07:38 AM
Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if Ash is actually even going to be in Best Wishes. I mean, yes, we do have the concept art, but then again, the concept art also originally had Misty being 12 years old, when Episode 3 had her saying something that would indicate that she was ten years old. Plus, that concept art was really the only thing that even included Ash. None of the promotional material, not even the recent trailer from what I heard, even included Ash or even Team Rocket, for that matter.

I mean, if he is in it, he is in it, but wouldn't they have made a bit more of an effort to include him in promotional materials if that were the case, even if "more" involved just a very brief appearance in the trailer?

mervyn797
August 20th, 2010, 08:18 AM
I don't see anything wrong with it. Actually I'd love to see some new companions for Ash. It was getting kind of boring, with Brock always being around. But I'm also going to miss him a lot. xD

Charmander_004
August 20th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Basically, to me, it would have been far better if they just wrote Ash off the show during Battle Frontier's climax, since he already beat the Battle Frontier, which was implied to be stronger or on the same level as the Elite 4, so in that sense he had become a Pokemon Master.

You know i have also though of the possibility of removing ash, i mean after so many years, we may be tired of ash, when they started airing pokemon chronicles i thought the series were going to make a turn, viewing the pokemon world from different perspectives of different trainers, breeders, gym leaders... But then I thought, ash and pikachu have given us so many good memories that maybe we wouldn't have felt the same for pokemon when it started, but then again, different people interact differently with pokemon, so ash's story is not the only one, but maybe if they put another compasive kind-hearthed person like ash but with other pokemon and personality... well many people have their one fanfiction for this, like me hehe. But i guess many people wouldnt like it so maybe that's why they stick with ash and pikachu. As of who their partners should be, well I think Brock needs a break but later they have too put him back soon since we would miss him i guess, but if they dont do that, i think he needs a change because his flirt personality is gettin old.

triggerhappymonk
August 20th, 2010, 06:15 PM
If they gave Ash a break for 1 season, i wouldn't mind making the attempt to watch it. I mean, sometimes I see Ash doing the same thing over and over agin, making the same mistakes. it tends to get annoying.

Vernikova
August 20th, 2010, 06:38 PM
If they gave Ash a break for 1 season, i wouldn't mind making the attempt to watch it. I mean, sometimes I see Ash doing the same thing over and over agin, making the same mistakes. it tends to get annoying.

The Japanese series doesn't have seasons so that wouldn't be definite. I wouldn't mind a 13 side-series to test it out even though the Hosos didn't do so well years ago.

Roughsponge
August 21st, 2010, 05:38 AM
I like the idea of changing the cast a bit. I'm probably going to be the only one to think this but.. I'm going to miss Dawn more than Brock. I'm not saying I love Dawn or anything because I'd prefer May/Misty were back, but I think they should stop changing the girl.. It's annoying watching a new coordinator learning the basics over and over.

Anyway, Brock has gotten stale over the series' and I think it's time for him to hang about with people his own age for once. :)

Charmander_004
August 22nd, 2010, 08:48 PM
I like the idea of changing the cast a bit. I'm probably going to be the only one to think this but.. I'm going to miss Dawn more than Brock. I'm not saying I love Dawn or anything because I'd prefer May/Misty were back, but I think they should stop changing the girl.. It's annoying watching a new coordinator learning the basics over and over.

Anyway, Brock has gotten stale over the series' and I think it's time for him to hang about with people his own age for once. :)

I would like mysty or even may to be back too, you know, cause seeing them starting over again is boring, also i hope at least ash trains more of his older pokemon (besides pikachu) rather than training a whole new team only, at least for some episodes, like they did in johto or battle frontier.

Zenith95s
August 22nd, 2010, 08:55 PM
Yes. 'Cause Ash and Brock are always present.
Ash:- Dumb Pikachu is always with him, bad voice, immature acting, etc.
Brock:- Same old sticking to girls, always someone disturbs him, very bad Pokémon, etc.

^These are the reasons...

weedle_mchairybug
September 2nd, 2010, 10:30 AM
On the topic of an (almost) entirely new cast, I was reading some stuff in the BMGf archives, and Gliscor'd (aka Scott85 or Cybercubed) is stating that Best Wishes is going to be a complete reboot. He's wrong. The mere fact that Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket still exists proves that it is not a complete reboot. A complete reboot would require that absolutely none of the old characters or events reappear ever again, even erased from existance. In case that isn't clear enough, that means that not even Ash, his Pikachu, or Team Rocket could EVER reappear, either. Absolute erasure of the old, and only the new things existing. That's what a TRULY complete reboot is, since the definition of "completely" is an adjective for something that is 100% finished, or 100% done, and it has to be whole, and not rounded up. I'd tell that to him myself, but I'm permanently banned from BMGf, and to be quite frank, I'm sick and tired of having to be bullied by them just because of my loyalties to Misty.

PearlShipper4Life
September 2nd, 2010, 10:37 AM
Well its nearly a reboot, two characters replacing Dawn and Brock {First time ever!} And new animation, Team Rocket getting new outfits for the first time in years. LOL weedle_mchairybug I think Misty fans get pushed around some times is cuz they overate her no offense, always talking about how she should be put back in the main cast cuz of how awesome she is. Or when they say how much more cooler she is than the other girls, so.

weedle_mchairybug
September 2nd, 2010, 11:05 AM
Well its nearly a reboot, two characters replacing Dawn and Brock {First time ever!} And new animation, Team Rocket getting new outfits for the first time in years.

Animation changes have happened throughout the series, so that isn't really a "reboot." Getting new outfits, even if it's Team Rocket's first, is also not really that much of a reboot. A reboot requires an absolute fresh start, and the only way to truly accomplish this, is if ABSOLUTELY NONE of the old things or the old characters return. Meaning, it's an entirely new cast, with absolutely no traces of the old (in other words, Ash is completely absent, and Team Rocket doesn't even exist, among other things). Thus, although close, it is not a truly complete reboot.

Even IF Misty, May, Brock, Tracey, or Dawn have absolutely no appearances or even mentions afterwards, it's still not a complete reboot, due to the simple fact that Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket are still present.

LOL weedle_mchairybug I think Misty fans get pushed around some times is cuz they overate her no offense, always talking about how she should be put back in the main cast cuz of how awesome she is. Or when they say how much more cooler she is than the other girls, so.

At least one Misty fan has reasons for wanting her to return that doesn't even deal much with the girls (PokemonFan132 mentioned that Misty's goal was far from complete. And I agree, especially given how this show treats the Gym Leaders as being no different from Team Rocket, and the latter case has been classified as weak because they lost to a Caterpie who was not only completely inexperienced, but also barely even functioning. Misty's goal was to become the worlds greatest Water Pokemon Master, something that cannot be achieved while at the Gym.).

And honestly, you don't even know why Misty would even come close to being classified as a better role model. Ever since 1999, when I showed Princess vs. Princess to a relative of mine, she saw how Misty was different than the other girls in that episode, those girls who acted like a bunch of animals. In 2002, this same relative even mentioned that the girls in love hina were horrible. Heck, when I saw May in a Disney Adventures magazine promoting AG, I paid no mind to May at first, even when I knew she replaced Misty (although I never knew why or how Misty was replaced). All that changed in 2006, however on May the 25th. I went to Scottish Rites Pediatric Hospital shortly before my Freshman finals were completed because my chest was giving off pains and also experiencing a dry cough. While waiting for my 2 X-rays to come out, they had Pokemon airing. Although I didn't see May, I did hear a whiney, poodlish voice, and I realized then and there, after thinking I heard May spoke, that she was very similar to the very FAS that I and my family hated.

Not to mention that the book The Rise and Fall of Pokemon actually referred to Misty quite a few times, and yet surprisingly did not mention May, or even AG at all, despite the book being published in 2004, which by that point was either nearing the end of Hoenn, or just starting, depending on whether its referring to Japan and America, and quite a few other sources had praise for Misty, many of which were even research papers and not fansites.

PearlShipper4Life
September 2nd, 2010, 11:27 AM
Animation changes have happened throughout the series, so that isn't really a "reboot." Getting new outfits, even if it's Team Rocket's first, is also not really that much of a reboot. A reboot requires an absolute fresh start, and the only way to truly accomplish this, is if ABSOLUTELY NONE of the old things or the old characters return. Meaning, it's an entirely new cast, with absolutely no traces of the old (in other words, Ash is completely absent, and Team Rocket doesn't even exist, among other things). Thus, although close, it is not a truly complete reboot.

Even IF Misty, May, Brock, Tracey, or Dawn have absolutely no appearances or even mentions afterwards, it's still not a complete reboot, due to the simple fact that Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket are still present.



At least one Misty fan has reasons for wanting her to return that doesn't even deal much with the girls (PokemonFan132 mentioned that Misty's goal was far from complete. And I agree, especially given how this show treats the Gym Leaders as being no different from Team Rocket, and the latter case has been classified as weak because they lost to a Caterpie who was not only completely inexperienced, but also barely even functioning. Misty's goal was to become the worlds greatest Water Pokemon Master, something that cannot be achieved while at the Gym.).

And honestly, you don't even know why Misty would even come close to being classified as a better role model. Ever since 1999, when I showed Princess vs. Princess to a relative of mine, she saw how Misty was different than the other girls in that episode, those girls who acted like a bunch of animals. In 2002, this same relative even mentioned that the girls in love hina were horrible. Heck, when I saw May in a Disney Adventures magazine promoting AG, I paid no mind to May at first, even when I knew she replaced Misty (although I never knew why or how Misty was replaced). All that changed in 2006, however on May the 25th. I went to Scottish Rites Pediatric Hospital shortly before my Freshman finals were completed because my chest was giving off pains and also experiencing a dry cough. While waiting for my 2 X-rays to come out, they had Pokemon airing. Although I didn't see May, I did hear a whiney, poodlish voice, and I realized then and there, after thinking I heard May spoke, that she was very similar to the very FAS that I and my family hated.

Not to mention that the book The Rise and Fall of Pokemon actually referred to Misty quite a few times, and yet surprisingly did not mention May, or even AG at all, despite the book being published in 2004, which by that point was either nearing the end of Hoenn, or just starting, depending on whether its referring to Japan and America, and quite a few other sources had praise for Misty, many of which were even research papers and not fansites.

That's why I said nearly a reboot.
So? Some feel Dawn didn't get a good ending either, she didn't get to beat Zoey her main rival and didn't win the Grand Festival. I mainly feel she should have at least beat Zoey, the same way May beat Drew, well not the same of course but you know what I mean. I mean, all fans feel there character should finish the goals on screen, Misty's character at least won some thing dealing with water, what was it again? The Whirl Cup Tournament? Kind of like a Grand Festival but dealing with Water trainers. So you could say the same thing with all the girls. And better role model? Honestly, its all a matter of opinions really. May fans would say May was a better role model, so would Dawn fans. Heck, I say Ash is the best role model ever! So I'm glad he's the main character, now and forever.

littlekid137
September 2nd, 2010, 11:55 AM
I miss misty :( She should come back. No one would see it coming

weedle_mchairybug
September 2nd, 2010, 12:09 PM
That's why I said nearly a reboot.
So? Some feel Dawn didn't get a good ending either, she didn't get to beat Zoey her main rival and didn't win the Grand Festival. I mainly feel she should have at least beat Zoey, the same way May beat Drew, well not the same of course but you know what I mean. I mean, all fans feel there character should finish the goals on screen, Misty's character at least won some thing dealing with water, what was it again? The Whirl Cup Tournament? Kind of like a Grand Festival but dealing with Water trainers. So you could say the same thing with all the girls. And better role model? Honestly, its all a matter of opinions really. May fans would say May was a better role model, so would Dawn fans. Heck, I say Ash is the best role model ever! So I'm glad he's the main character, now and forever.

Actually, Misty didn't win that tournament. She did, however, gain either Top 8 or Top 4.

And although May and Dawn's accomplishments won't be shown onscreen, at least we had the luxury of actually knowing that they are pursuing their goals by travelling. Misty didn't even get that luxury when she left. They just stuck her at a gym and doomed her to end up becoming JJM in terms of power (in other words, becoming weaker). That's not giving her goal resolution at ALL. Wallace was able to become a Pokemon League Champion and possibly Top Coordinator by leaving the Gym, and yet with characters like Blaine and Pryce (people who are old enough to possibly be grandparents) they lose to rookies for the most part, and can't even come CLOSE to becoming Pokemon Masters, either of their type OR just Masters, period. If Misty at LEAST left the series to hone her skills to being a Water Pokemon Master by travelling by herself rather than having to take care of the Gym out of obligation (and not even wanting it anyways), her leaving wouldn't have been that bad.

And actually, the Whirl Cup was more like the Pokemon League rather than a Grand Festival. The Queen of the Princess Festival Tournament is closer (which she actually did win) was more like a Grand Festival however.

And it's actually fact, given by scholars, that Misty was a better role model. Don't believe me? Just take a look at this:

The book The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture described Misty's portrayal in the anime as a mother figure, calling her a "nurturing component" for the original trio of herself, Ash and Brock.[5] It further described her as an "unusually 'complete' girl of the cartoon world", noting both her feminine sentimentality and her "explosive rage".[6] Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces praised the character as being "particularly nuanced" and described her as contributing heavily to the series' appeal.[7] Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon stated that the anime focused on Ash, Misty was a distinctly significant character especially to young female consumers, neither "butch" nor "dizzily feminine", seemingly "carefully constructed to appeal to preadolescent girls".[8] It added that unlike other aggressive female characters in the series, Misty did not sacrifice her femininity to succeed, making the character further popular with young American women, a contrast to Japanese children who focused more on the individual Pokémon species to identify with.[9]

In studies on the reactions boys and girls had to the concept of Misty as a heroine in the series, girls accepted it and were eager to associate themselves with the character,[10][11] while boys attempted to belittle her efforts.[10] On the other hand, children of both genders felt the character alongside Brock gave Ash a sense of identity and moral support, which researchers attributed to the concept of group identity.[12] In another study, children were shown to associate the attributes of attractiveness and aggressiveness, while college students described the character as romantic.[13] Pikachu's Global Adventure additionally stated Misty also served as a source of non-threatening sexuality for both older and younger male viewers, though the context of such was presented in a more subtle way for North American localizations of the series.[14]

5.^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 58. ISBN 0810851210.
6.^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 78. ISBN 0810851210.
7.^ Camp, Brian; Julie Davis (May 2007). Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces. Stone Bridge Press. p. 283. ISBN 9781933330228.
8.^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 21. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
9.^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 231–232, 282. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
10.^ a b Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 176. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
11.^ Katch, Jane (2004). They Don't Like Me: Lessons on Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom. Beacon Press. ISBN 0807023213.
12.^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 169–170, 177. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
13.^ Ogletree, Shirley M.; Cristal N. Martinez, Trent R. Turner and Brad Mason (28 October 2004). "Pokémon: Exploring the Role of Gender". Sex Roles (Springer Netherlands) 50 (11-12 / June, 2004): 851–859. doi:10.1023/B:SERS.0000029102.66384.a2. ISSN (Print) 1573-2762 (Online) 0360-0025 (Print) 1573-2762 (Online).
14.^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 284. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.


If it were opinion, then it would be flat out lies. I know if I were to utter opinions, like saying the sky is pink during the afternoon on Earth, I WOULD be lying, and wrong.

I really wish you hadn't dragged it into this. I only mentioned Misty as being a reason for why I'm not on BMGf anymore.

Either way, I still stand by my statement that BW is NOT a complete reboot, and even you have to agree with that.

PearlShipper4Life
September 2nd, 2010, 02:01 PM
Actually, Misty didn't win that tournament. She did, however, gain either Top 8 or Top 4.

And although May and Dawn's accomplishments won't be shown onscreen, at least we had the luxury of actually knowing that they are pursuing their goals by travelling. Misty didn't even get that luxury when she left. They just stuck her at a gym and doomed her to end up becoming JJM in terms of power (in other words, becoming weaker). That's not giving her goal resolution at ALL. Wallace was able to become a Pokemon League Champion and possibly Top Coordinator by leaving the Gym, and yet with characters like Blaine and Pryce (people who are old enough to possibly be grandparents) they lose to rookies for the most part, and can't even come CLOSE to becoming Pokemon Masters, either of their type OR just Masters, period. If Misty at LEAST left the series to hone her skills to being a Water Pokemon Master by travelling by herself rather than having to take care of the Gym out of obligation (and not even wanting it anyways), her leaving wouldn't have been that bad.

And actually, the Whirl Cup was more like the Pokemon League rather than a Grand Festival. The Queen of the Princess Festival Tournament is closer (which she actually did win) was more like a Grand Festival however.

And it's actually fact, given by scholars, that Misty was a better role model. Don't believe me? Just take a look at this:



If it were opinion, then it would be flat out lies. I know if I were to utter opinions, like saying the sky is pink during the afternoon on Earth, I WOULD be lying, and wrong.

I really wish you hadn't dragged it into this. I only mentioned Misty as being a reason for why I'm not on BMGf anymore.

Either way, I still stand by my statement that BW is NOT a complete reboot, and even you have to agree with that.

Yes I did agree with you on the reboot thing. That's why I said nearly a reboot. And oh my gosh if the scholars says it, people can't have opinions it must be true >>
While its true Misty is stuck in a gym, she still gets to show off her water training skills by battling other kids who want a badge. Plus she has Tracey to talk to, how awesome is that?

weedle_mchairybug
September 2nd, 2010, 02:29 PM
Yes I did agree with you on the reboot thing. That's why I said nearly a reboot. And oh my gosh if the scholars says it, people can't have opinions it must be true >>

Considering how in school they count opinions as being wrong answers, yes, they shouldn't have opinions (If I said "in my opinion, 2+2=160", do you honestly think that I'd get brownie points for having an opinion? No, they'd mark you wrong all the same.)

While its true Misty is stuck in a gym, she still gets to show off her water training skills by battling other kids who want a badge. Plus she has Tracey to talk to, how awesome is that?

You're an Orangeshipper, aren't you? I personally don't care for shippings, especially those that were neither proven nor love on first sight (since that's the only kind of Romance I could understand, and thus the only thing I could fathom happening and view as common thanks to how the media does things.).

And... skills? Maybe if she were fighting in a league she would be showing off kids spectators those same water training skills, but this... Jessie, James, and Meowth had "shown off their training skills" to kids every single episode, and thanks to that as well as "Ash catches a Pokemon", people are claiming them to be completely weak and pathetic losers. I cannot see the difference between that and how Gym Leaders do things. If I were Gym Leader, and I were supposed to be powerful, I'd actually DESTROY my challengers when fighting them.

Besides, did Ash decide to become a Gym Leader or even accept the offer to become a Frontier Brain to become a Master? No, he didn't, and while it is true that Ash is not Misty, that's the only way this would work if becoming a Pokemon Master truly involved becoming a Gym Leader as some fans suggested.

cyan.
September 2nd, 2010, 07:24 PM
actually, i wouldnt mind, as long though;

- they have a good reason for brock not be joining the group this time nevermind, hes a doctor.
- they meet up with brock sometime along the way
- the characters aren't annoying or stupid or anything

and i hope to see more gary, i like how they brought him back for a few episodes in diamond and pearl.

fenyx4
September 2nd, 2010, 09:16 PM
I'm adjusting to an all-new cast, but I'm gonna miss Brock, primarily because he was part of the "classic" seasons of Pokemon. I would have much preferred that Ash traveled with Black and White (the BW player characters) instead, with White pwning him in the first few eps... However, I'll see how Iris and other companions develop as the anime progresses... Change can be great, if implemented well. :)

It helps that the anime is rebooting, in a sense. Now only if they can "reboot" the title!

PlatinumDude
September 3rd, 2010, 04:12 AM
Eh...it's okay. It's cool that Ash gets to travel with new people, but it makes me miss having Brock around at the same time.

Neelh
September 3rd, 2010, 11:19 AM
I don't know. The Tracey change was OK, because a third of the main cast was still there. Now two thirds are docked off. Or, ahem, Brocked off.

Yeah, that was terrible.

Jalsy
September 9th, 2010, 01:31 AM
Eh...it's okay. It's cool that Ash gets to travel with new people, but it makes me miss having Brock around at the same time.


*nods*I think there's nothing wrong for new or old characters just come and go,But seeing Ash's companion be apart from his side of the group is quite,sad..I mean..I'm going to miss those first two companions he had,and so on,..but seeing new characters is not bad at all,I hope the old characters are there to have more cameo even in the new season.

yossarian
September 11th, 2010, 11:44 AM
^ I actually agree with Weedle on this one. I would've preferred a whole new group rather than keeping Ash again, but I suppose we all knew that was never going to happen. It would've been nice if the anime was a little more like Pokespe and changed all the characters around every series, it makes more sense than advertising with a character from a game that's over 10 years old now, when there are newer characters.

Anyway, I like that 2 were changed this time, hopefully it'll be a little more refreshing since Brock has been dull for years.

They can't get rid of Ash, he and team Rocket are the sole link to the original series. They should keep him at least until he quest of becoming a pokemon master is resolved. Do a spin off along with it but not at the expense off it. Besides the only reason I continue to watch it is because I want to eventually find out what happens to Ash.

Personally I think the current strategy employed is the best one, keep the central characther but bring in new blood around him to supplement him. I do admit keeping Ash does cause some continuity problems, such as constantly making elementary mistakes, Pikachu's inconsistency etc etc but he is making progress in his fundamental goal, that is winning a league, shown by having his best ever result this time.

560cool.
September 11th, 2010, 02:09 PM
Well, yes, I just hope that Brock somehow makes an appearance. At least one episode. I beg you, Nintendo.

Brock was my fave character. Since I first watches the anime. It was cool and detached and funny in a weird way, with him getting close to every woman.

With Croagunk just doing that poison thingy every episode, Brock's importance wore off. In one effin' episode, he decides to throw his lifetime Pokemon Breeder dream to become a doctor ?

Seriously, imo, the writers just wanted to get rid of him to work on Best Wishes. I just want to see him star in one more episode.

AadmM
September 11th, 2010, 02:49 PM
I think it's great, what they're doing with Best Wishes. Like 'em or not, Ash and Pikachu are basically the face of the anime. I just watched a few episodes of Pokemon Chronicles for the first time recently and it just wasn't the same.

Now I really don't care for Dawn, and while I like Brock, I feel like we've had more than enough of him for a little while. Some fresh blood definitely wouldn't hurt, and with each preview I watch for Best Wishes, I'm more and more interested in Iris and Dento and how they'll play into the story, and most of all, how they and Ash will work as a group.

And while it's a small change, I also like the new uniforms for Team Rocket, Jenny, Joy, etc. They may be the same characters at heart, but at least they'll seem a little fresher :P

Out with the old (sorta), in with the new (with a little old) I say!

Pebblycone
September 12th, 2010, 02:09 PM
I, personally, don't like the idea.

But it DOES make sense. Everything about Black/White is made to allow people new to the series catch up. (like starting the Routes from 1). So yeah, it would make sense if they done that with the anime as well.

I don't watch the anime anyway, (stopped after Johto) so I don't exactly know what they done to the other "groupies" to make them funny or 3 dimensional or whatever. (such as Brocks cooking, Misty's bickering with Ash etc.) but hopefully with they will continue with that and not just make them characters to be characters.

weedle_mchairybug
September 14th, 2010, 02:24 AM
They can't get rid of Ash, he and team Rocket are the sole link to the original series. They should keep him at least until he quest of becoming a pokemon master is resolved. Do a spin off along with it but not at the expense off it. Besides the only reason I continue to watch it is because I want to eventually find out what happens to Ash.

Personally I think the current strategy employed is the best one, keep the central characther but bring in new blood around him to supplement him. I do admit keeping Ash does cause some continuity problems, such as constantly making elementary mistakes, Pikachu's inconsistency etc etc but he is making progress in his fundamental goal, that is winning a league, shown by having his best ever result this time.

We Misty fans have argued the exact same thing about Misty, and given the fact that even approximately eight years, probably nine by now, we still haven't died down yet, I'd say that I'm not exaggerating, and yet that never stopped them from removing Misty. If our opinions didn't matter in regards to the Writers, why should the Writers even care about Ash? If I were them, I'd actually remove Ash from the anime, period.

Jorah
September 14th, 2010, 02:57 AM
They can't get rid of Ash, he and team Rocket are the sole link to the original series. They should keep him at least until he quest of becoming a pokemon master is resolved. Do a spin off along with it but not at the expense off it. Besides the only reason I continue to watch it is because I want to eventually find out what happens to Ash.

I know. I find it funny that something I've repeated hundreds of times to other people is now being repeated to me XD When I wrote that it was well before the Sinnoh league, anyway, so it was unknown if Ash would be the winner or not. I can't see any reason why they can't finish up Ash's story and have a new protagonist, other than the writers think the formula still works and it's just easiest to keep it this way than take any chances.

yossarian
September 15th, 2010, 03:03 AM
We Misty fans have argued the exact same thing about Misty, and given the fact that even approximately eight years, probably nine by now, we still haven't died down yet, I'd say that I'm not exaggerating, and yet that never stopped them from removing Misty. If our opinions didn't matter in regards to the Writers, why should the Writers even care about Ash? If I were them, I'd actually remove Ash from the anime, period.


Simple reason is that Misty isn't the main and central charachter of the show unlike Ash. This show is built around Ash's quest of becoming a Pokemon Master not Misty dreams. Hence, Misty is expendenble whilst Ash is not.

Assault
September 15th, 2010, 04:17 AM
A change can be good or it can be bad, but what's Ash got to lose really.
I think it's better that there are newcomers, all Brock ever did was squint and make food that looked like rabbit droppings. :P

I think the new characters will have interesting qualities and I look forward to seeing them in action.

angel10698
September 15th, 2010, 11:11 AM
hmmm i don't know. i mean change is good but it is hard to picture it without brock. He has been there since the indigo league......but it would be refreshing to have all new characters......but u never know....it isn't definite that Brock is leaving forever is it? he might end up coming back later.

Numbers
September 15th, 2010, 11:35 AM
I'm glad they got rid of Brock. Don't get me wrong, I liked him, but I felt that with this whole new "fresh start" thing they're going for it made sense to drop him. Hopefully he will return in future but as for now I'm excited that it's two new companions and I'm actually going to start watching the Anime again. (Haven't watched since the Johto episodes except for some of the gym battles)

dudeazombie
September 17th, 2010, 02:23 PM
I don't mind that Brock's leaving, mainly because I liked his old VA more. Dawn, well, I didn't get too attached to her, because I knew she would leave.

I like the idea of two new characters instead of just one. Why not try something new?

ya but that doesn't mean they can't keep brock aswell as add 2 new characters. they just need brock to actually battle/use his pokemon.

also what you said at the end is what they did in hoenn, it was may and max who joined.

solarowl
September 18th, 2010, 12:32 AM
I think having a complete new start will be good. I'm just afraid dento will become too much like brock.

Vernikova
September 21st, 2010, 03:40 PM
I think having a complete new start will be good. I'm just afraid dento will become too much like brock.

He'll probably get stale like Brock really quickly.