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serabeth
October 9th, 2010, 09:44 AM
I never really watched the episodes when I was younger, but I did play the games. Since then, I have been watching the episodes starting from 1 (skipping a few "filler" episodes here and there, but watching most of them).

I'm not done yet, but I'm pretty far -- I'm towards the beginning of the Diamond and Pearl part of Ash's journey. He has his first badge in that region, but not the second yet.

At any rate, while pokemon is not the best animated series I've ever watched in my life, and while it certainly has its flaws (it can get a bit repetitive), and while in my opinion, certain seasons were better than others, I don't really see how it has gone downhill. I don't think it's really changed much at all, to be honest.

Probably my favorite arc was Ash's adventures in the Orange Islands. I don't know why I liked it so much -- I like Brock better than Tracy, and the Orange Islands didn't follow the games. Then again, maybe that's why I did like it so much -- because it was different, the gym leaders weren't always looking for hardcore let's keep throwing our pokemon out one-by-one battles, and it was fun and interesting. I also really liked Lapras.

But has it really changed all that much? I always see people going on and on about how the original series was amazing, and how everything after Johto kind of sucked. I liked the original series, too, but there were certainly plenty of repetitive and filler episodes there, too. Team Rocket still did the same old jokes, and everything was pretty much as it is where I am in the series now.

Although speaking of Team Rocket's repetitiveness, most of my favorite episodes involve them teaming up with the "twerps," or being placed in a situation where they all get split up, or when Meowth and Pikachu go off and have adventures together. I think if Team Rocket was always doing something different like that, then those episodes wouldn't be as much fun as they were.

So yeah, ending this wall of text, if you believe the anime has gone downhill, what are your reasons for this?

WonderGirl
October 9th, 2010, 09:52 AM
I think because we have grown up a lot, and so we think that they are boring now.

serabeth
October 9th, 2010, 09:55 AM
^ That would definitely make sense. Because as far as I can tell, the episodes are all about the same, quality-wise. It could be watching episodes later in life, if you don't feel the same excitement that you did when you were a little kid, it seems like they've gotten worse, when in reality, you've just grown out of them.

ShadowYashi
October 9th, 2010, 10:27 AM
I don't think its gone downhill. I honestly like the new series and I don't mind the older seasons either, infact the only thing I'd honestly complain about is Ash and Pikachu, but I don't really find anything wrong with the newer series. I guess it just depends on the people, cause I'm all for change. I mean after all If you watch the same thing over and over again it gets old.

So when they started to switch the region girls, I was happy, it was different and new and I like when they make cameo's. Misty, May and Dawn leaving don't really bother me but knowing that Paul won't be returning is a bit of a downer XDD He's honestly my favorite rival of Ash and then there's Gary.

Gumball Watterson
October 9th, 2010, 10:36 AM
People grow up. People leave stop enjoying things from their childhood because those things evolve during the same time people evolve from childhood and realize how they're older, and therefore only prefer the memories from their younger years.

Unfortunately, I've been sticking to the Pokemon anime and Loving it since season 1, and I will always like everything new that goes to it. You can say I am the Peter Pan of Pokemon. If I weren't, I'd probably be more active in the ROM Hacking or OC forum than here.

institutions
October 9th, 2010, 10:48 AM
I guess I think it has gone downhill for many reasons.
Keep in mind these are my personal opinions and they'll most likely be stupid to some of you :P

-Ash's and Pikachu's personalities have changed. I liked Ash when he was naive and didn't know everything in the world.
-There are way too many Pokemon i'm used to being able to name all the original 151, not 493, or even 600 something.
-I hate the idea of Pokemon contests and the female protagonist always taking part in them.
-Way too many filler episodes. Sure, there were fillers in the first seasons, but they were all appropriately placed and on the way to towns. They never spent 3 or more episodes traveling to a non-important town just so Dawn could lose a contest.
-Way too many recurring characters for my taste.
-Pikachu isn't a cute little fatty anymore.

There's a lot more, I just don't want to type all of them D:

PearlShipper4Life
October 9th, 2010, 11:32 AM
I know many people wanted Ash and Pikachu to keep there personalitys from series one, but if that happened than Ash would never grow as a character. I honestly don't know why some want him to stay the same he was in that series, Ash just can't win. Some people are happy he matured, others aren't oh wells. I also think some fans of there favorite characters think it went down cuz they left *Cough Misty fan boys Cough* However, I don't, I think its gotten so much better in Best Wishes, I look forward to more episodes. Heck, I loved series one and Orange Islands and Advanced and D/P.

PlatinumDude
October 9th, 2010, 03:43 PM
I don't think the show has gone downhill at all. Maybe it's because of certain traits the Pokemon anime has that a lot of people are turning away from it (such as pre-Isshu Team Rocket's lame puns/rhymes).

Vernikova
October 9th, 2010, 04:12 PM
They've always had these lame puns and rhymes though.

Shadow Sneak Sableye
October 9th, 2010, 04:57 PM
I think the anime has had highs and lows. sure it could be a lot better, but it's not completely terrible.

serabeth
October 9th, 2010, 05:15 PM
So it seems like most people (at least of those that have posted so far) think it really hasn't gotten all that worse over time, but they've either grown up, or it's just gotten old.

Institution had a few good points, but I had been thinking about one of them before. There's the fact that after Misty, Ash's two female companions have been coordinators. I at first had been annoyed with that, too, but then I thought how boring it would be if they had the exact same goals as Ash. Think about it -- we'd have to watch every single gym match twice. And how would they handle it if one of the two kept losing, and the other was ready to move on to the next town, but the one that was losing wanted to stay and train?

Also, I kind of like contests as a break from the constant gym battles and/or filler episodes. I haven't seen very many of Dawn's yet at the point I'm at in the series, but some of May's contest battles were pretty exciting, and it wasn't always clear who would win. I like the idea that dodging attacks or using moves that aren't always effective, but are good combinations (like Glameow's Shadow Claw against a normal type) that look attractive can get points as well as by being strong.

I suppose his female companions could've had other pokemon goals, but unless it was something involving some kind of competition, they might end up falling into the background sort of like Brock.

Misty is probably my favorite of the girls personality-wise, but I didn't really dislike May. I thought she was a pretty realistic character, and I got excited to watch her compete. I got nervous right along with her, and cringed those times she fell on stage.

With Dawn....not so much. She doesn't seem to have much personality at all, to be honest. Maybe I need to get further into the series, but she hasn't made an impression on me yet at all. I didn't cringe when her Pachirisu slipped during her second contest like I did whenever one of May's pokemon messed up.

So maybe some people think it's gone downhill partially due to the personality quality of Ash's female companions going down? I don't know -- that's just a personal opinion. Maybe a lot of people like Dawn, or maybe she grows more into a character in later episodes.

Vernikova
October 9th, 2010, 05:40 PM
Actually, one of the reasons people think the show has gone down hill is because the females' personality. A bunch of people miss the exciting personality Misty had as well as the interaction she had with Ash and Brock. They use the argument that May and Dawn both lack in personality and are inferior to Misty as a result. Of course, not all Misty fans believe this like Pearlshipper wants you to think but it's just a reason that they use.

zoo3891
October 9th, 2010, 06:08 PM
Well the first factor is nostalgia, when we were kids (or teens) we remembered the great first episodes. Secondley the first seasons had some actual episodes that didn't follow the games like the orange islands like you said, and some episodes didn't even follow the gym leader storyline, like the episode that got banned because of guns. Most people also hate the new voice acting, i agree especially with this. And even worse which will make people complain more is that brock is leaving. Of course there are some episodes in the new generation i liked, like the one where rocket split up and we saw shiny metagross. The thing about the newer ones is that most of them suck, and fans of the older ones see one episode and say "@$#! this i'm never watching this again!!!".

mervyn797
October 9th, 2010, 08:59 PM
I always felt that teens were never a part of the target audience of the Anime. The fact that we have grown up makes a little sense as well. Other than that I think that the repetitive nature of the show is also blamed for the lack of interest in the Anime. Filler episodes often have no thrill or suspense involved in them. Team Rocket keep repeating their old jokes and aren't really amusing. Several other factors pointed out by others who posted in this thread are also quite true.

I'm pretty sure that the writers know this very well and are trying to make up for it in the Best Wishes series. Expectations are really high for BW.

Vernikova
October 10th, 2010, 06:55 AM
I always felt that teens were never a part of the target audience of the Anime. The fact that we have grown up makes a little sense as well.

That is because it isn't aimed at teens. They throw in a reference or two for people that have been viewing for a while but that's really it. It's mainly nostalgic teens that come on and whine about the animé anyway.

serabeth
October 10th, 2010, 03:00 PM
Actually, one of the reasons people think the show has gone down hill is because the females' personality. A bunch of people miss the exciting personality Misty had as well as the interaction she had with Ash and Brock. They use the argument that May and Dawn both lack in personality and are inferior to Misty as a result.

Hmm....Now that I think about it, remember that really emotional sequence of cutscenes with sad music going on in the background when Misty finally split from the group? May didn't get that...It was just she and her little brother on a boat, and Ash and Brock waving good-bye to them.

I just remember that Misty good-bye scene really well because it made me cry a little just from how emotional it was :P.

But then again, you can't expect him to connect with every random girl he meets, right? Maybe he did have more of a connection with Misty, but I think it's just not realistic for him to have a deep connection with every girl he meets. And less arguing with May and Dawn doesn't necessarily mean (although it may in this case) less connection...It could just be that he'd matured a bit.

I'm pretty sure that the writers know this very well and are trying to make up for it in the Best Wishes series. Expectations are really high for BW.

If what you say is true, that makes me very happy :P.

Vernikova
October 10th, 2010, 03:09 PM
Hmm....Now that I think about it, remember that really emotional sequence of cutscenes with sad music going on in the background when Misty finally split from the group? May didn't get that...It was just she and her little brother on a boat, and Ash and Brock waving good-bye to them.

I just remember that Misty good-bye scene really well because it made me cry a little just from how emotional it was :P.

But then again, you can't expect him to connect with every random girl he meets, right? Maybe he did have more of a connection with Misty, but I think it's just not realistic for him to have a deep connection with every girl he meets. And less arguing with May and Dawn doesn't necessarily mean (although it may in this case) less connection...It could just be that he'd matured a bit.

It was probably because she ad been traveling with Ash and Brock longer than May and Max did. Don't look too much into it since it probably doesn't mean all that much really.

If what you say is true, that makes me very happy :P.

It's an opinion.

AceDragonite
October 10th, 2010, 03:26 PM
Well I'm guessing its for one of two reasons.

1-When we were all little kids, and weren't pokemon masters, our game sort of kept the same pace with the anime and it was cool to see ash go to all the places you went. Now we can beat the game in 1-3 days while Ash is still stuck in the starting town.
2-Ash's additude got really annoying and the support characters personality went downhill.

cyan.
October 10th, 2010, 03:30 PM
In my opinion, I think the reason why is because when they were smaller, they loved Pokemon. As they got older, a few things changed, and people just didn't like it.

Personally, I love the Diamond and Pearl seris, and I'm excited for the Isshu arc.

Pumpkin Fields
October 11th, 2010, 10:24 PM
I don't think the quality has changed much at all. Pokemon, as a series, never seems to progress, which is fine with me. Aside from a revolving door of new and old characters/Pokemon, the series remains unchanged season after season.
I'll admit that I miss Misty, but that's all you're getting out of me.

femtrooper
October 11th, 2010, 10:46 PM
It's because the original episodes were the first ones we ever saw. They bring back happy childhood memories. They are like comfort food or something. Watching them is an amazing feeling.

And yeah, I was soooooooooo into the games that whenever Ash got to a town that I was in it was soooooooo cool!!!

New voice actors = lamesauce. I'd rather watch it in Japanese.

Misty was also pure win. Also, when I watched it, I was a kid like Ash...now Ash should be around my age...and he's not. Another factor for me.

It's always fun to watch characters that are your own age, because you can relate! When I was 10, Ash was 10! Then I was 11, then 12, then 13, etc... Ash stayed the same and I grew up...but not really because I am still a Pokemon Master and I love the Anime!

Tomackze
October 11th, 2010, 11:10 PM
It's a combination of people growing up and Pokemon staying the same... that causes many to think it has changed

Mew~
October 12th, 2010, 07:16 AM
Loads of people just claim that people of Nostalgia, and just like everyone else has already mentioned, they've grown out of the anime and claim that the Animes gone crap "Kanto and johto was the best" xD

2nd-Thanatos
October 14th, 2010, 09:01 AM
I have too main reasons to dislike it.

1st, It's almost the same all the time. All the battles seens to be very scripted, and almost all of the time they use the same attacks with different effects. But I'm tired of the characters beign so childish and dumb. How many years have passed since Ash started his journey? It's ok that he doesn't go to school at all, but please, he should be a little smarter xDD

2- After you play the games and specially if you read the manga, the anime looks incredibly "poor". The own creator of Pokemon said that the Manga is the way he imagined the world.
The only thing the Anime refrain from the games/manga are the characters (and sometimes, their personalities are totally screwed) and the Pokemon. Everything else is like another planet.

Sho7gun
October 14th, 2010, 09:13 AM
People believe anime has lost its traditional values over the years.
Obviously this is down to your own opinion but I believe anime has tried too hard to aim at an audience that is too wide. Of Course anime can be used in Anything but there is a certain feel, a grainy-ness if you will, that needs to be maintained if the anime is going to remain interesting.

Bleach & Naruto are good examples of animes that I have bored me to neglect recently.

Bleach is amazing until the end of Soul Society & it should have stopped there.
Naruto has some pretty dark moments in series 1......but even though the dark nature of it is amplified in Shippuden......Naruto is about a Loud little punk ninja who eventually realises what it is to be responsible for ones self......Shippuden kinda turned it into an AutoBiography which made me lose interest.

I guess personally I prefer the shorter, sweeter animes!
The decline of anime may have something to do with the way things are strung out to make more money these days!
Recent recommendations from me are: (AGE)

Afro Samurai (Rated 18)
Death Note (Rated 16)

Deathshot
October 14th, 2010, 09:52 AM
When they got rid of the adultish stuff from the anime and the English voice actors it kinda killed it for me. I mean I never watched it in Japanese because I actually liked the voice acting for Ash from Season 1 to Johto. I stopped watching around that time cause of course I got older and couldn't wake up at 10o'clock in the mourning on Saturday anymore because well... You know its impossible for teenagers to do that. But I watched an episode about 2 years back and see that Ash got rid of his hat which gave me such a fit. He cherished that Hat and everything just for him to throw it away like it was nothing. Guess the hat is only one of those things he just threw away. I mean truly I wanted to see Brock come back from staying with that Doctor and he did. Misty, I demanded back as well and she came back. I mean don't get me wrong Dawn is pretty cool but Ash still owns Misty that bike. I mean its just hard to watch something that has changed since you watched it and liked it to find out the changes just changed it from what it originally was.

Amore
October 14th, 2010, 10:06 AM
I can see where you're coming from...but I started with Gen III anime infrequently, then got into it properly in Gen IV....and I must say that contest lady is horrifically irritating and OTT!!!!. Seriously, I hate her.....I want to watch the Grand Festival final because it features Gallade and Togekiss, whom I both love....but I can't stand her, so I won't.....it's really irritating.


So whilst I'm not against contents, she's dragged the anime downhill all by herself...although....stupid losses for Pikachu also drag it down. for example, in Best Wishes...

[spoiler]

Pikachu loses to a newly-obtained Tsutjara! I mean, wtf?!?!
Even if it apparently can't use electricity...(where've we seen that before....), one Iron Tail or Quick Attack should be able to finish that thing off...and whilst that wouldn't happen in the anime, they should've still made it an easy win for Pikachu.

shadowmoon
October 14th, 2010, 11:23 AM
when i was little, i loved the anime. for me, things went down hill around the end of the jhoto saga. i really liked all the different jokes they put into it. the anime right now seems way too serious and the same events happen all the time
ex
ash obtains pokemon, he battles gyms, the rival beats him up until the end of the arc where he finally win against the rival.
sorry, but it just seems so cliche.
i loved misty, until they took her out, and brock is also gone from the series too.

also, ash doesn't grow up! yes, his personality has changed to be more mature (but i liked it when he was all rash *flashback to when the mankey stole his hat*)

for me personally, i wish to see more of the characters from the games/manga
ex
silver, gold, crys(not lyra), blue(the girl), diamond, ruby...

what's with all the girls that travel with ash do contests??!
i know it is only 2 (may and dawn), but that is still alot. i wish that ash had a female travelling companion that also competed in gyms.

sorry for the rant. after i read to manga, the anime seemed to go down hill)

RainbowWing
October 14th, 2010, 02:13 PM
If you mean worldwide, then of course not! Pokemon is POPULAR in japan (no, duh >.<)
But if your talking about the English dub then... yeah.

I guarantee everyone stopped watching the anime when Veronica Taylor stopped voicing Ash, and when dawn started talking... (IDK who voices her)

It would make sense no one would make a HUGE deal about this because A LOT of Pokemon was an anime. (makes sense though :P)

Vernikova
October 14th, 2010, 03:37 PM
No one else is going to do this I guess.

1st, It's almost the same all the time. All the battles seens to be very scripted, and almost all of the time they use the same attacks with different effects.

They are scripted. And since the animé now seems to want to restrict itself to four moves per Pokémon just like in the games they would end up using the same attacks.

But I'm tired of the characters beign so childish and dumb.They're ten. Why wouldn't they act childish?

2- After you play the games and specially if you read the manga, the anime looks incredibly "poor". The own creator of Pokemon said that the Manga is the way he imagined the world.He said that over a decade ago. It's sad that people still use this to try and support their arguments still.

The only thing the Anime refrain from the games/manga are the characters (and sometimes, their personalities are totally screwed) and the Pokemon. Everything else is like another planet.Why does the animé need to follow Pokémon Special? They're are plenty more Pokémon manga out there.

Obviously this is down to your own opinion but I believe anime has tried too hard to aim at an audience that is too wide.

It's aimed at children. Older people just choose to watch and whine about it.

When they got rid of the adultish stuff from the anime

There weren't that many in the first place to be honest.

Ash still owns Misty that bikeMisty got her bike back in "Gotta Catch Ya later!".

the anime right now seems way too serious and the same events happen all the tim

It's weird how some people say it's too serious and others say it's too childish. I don't know. It's kind of weird.

ash obtains pokemon, he battles gyms, the rival beats him up until the end of the arc where he finally win against the rival.
sorry, but it just seems so cliche.A major problem is that the games still have the same formula as well. Too bad really.

for me personally, i wish to see more of the characters from the games/manga
ex
silver, gold, crys(not lyra), blue(the girl), diamond, ruby...The animé already includes a lot of the most important characters from the games. Why add the extras?

Also, the animé isn't based on Pokémon Special. If you want to read about them read it.

I guarantee everyone stopped watching the anime when Veronica Taylor stopped voicing Ash, and when dawn started talking...

I thought everyone stopped watching when Misty left?

serabeth
October 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM
On a kind of sidenote, if you continue to watch the episodes with the PUSA voices, they eventually grow on you. Some of the voice actors noticeably improve (looking at Meowth here), and others you just get used to...I mean, when I first heard the new voices, they grated on me. Yet there were still some episodes I wanted to see, so I skipped ahead a lot to get to them. Eventually, the voices weren't so bad, and some even seemed to improve.

When I first heard Meowth's new voice...It was terrible for the final half of the Battle Frontier arc. Horrible. I couldn't listen to it without cringing. But if you compare his voice in a battle frontier episode to one halfway through the diamond and pearl arc...MAJOR difference.

Even Ash's voice gets a lot better!

The only voice actor I would say will never match his former greatness is the voice of James. His voice was just brilliant in the original series, and currently it's just okay.

I agree with a previous commenter that many anime shows start out amazing then keep going on and start to lose steam. I have not watched any Shippuden episodes, so I can't comment on Naruto, but I completely agree that the Soul Society arc of Bleach was amazing, and after that it got very boring very fast.

And I also, like someone else said above, would love to see pokemon games follow a completely different path. Not just new pokemon, not just a slightly different nefarious plot, not just different elite four and champions, but a completely different story.

Oh, and...Were there really that many jokes for teens/adults, even in the original series? Off the top of my head, I can remember one, where Team Rocket sees a giant Dragonite and James says something like, "So size really does matter." There may have been a few more jokes in addition to that one, but for the most part, I think it's always just been aimed at kids.

mervyn797
October 14th, 2010, 09:58 PM
So whilst I'm not against contents, she's dragged the anime downhill all by herself...although....stupid losses for Pikachu also drag it down. for example, in Best Wishes...



Pikachu loses to a newly-obtained Tsutjara! I mean, wtf?!?!
Even if it apparently can't use electricity...(where've we seen that before....), one Iron Tail or Quick Attack should be able to finish that thing off...and whilst that wouldn't happen in the anime, they should've still made it an easy win for Pikachu.
I don't really know why, but Pikachu tends to experience a level reset at the start of every region. ._.
And it is not that Pikachu didn't use any non-electric moves at all. He did use moves like Quick Attack and Iron Tail but that did not result in a victory for Pikachu against Tsutaja. Pikachu seemed to be a lot weaker because of Zekrom's thunderbolt.
I guess that is because Pokemon is full of uncertainties. Nothing can be taken for granted.
And the concept of "levels" which we have in the games also doesn't seem to be applicable in the Anime. :/


The only voice actor I would say will never match his former greatness is the voice of James. His voice was just brilliant in the original series, and currently it's just okay.

Agreed.


I agree with a previous commenter that many anime shows start out amazing then keep going on and start to lose steam. I have not watched any Shippuden episodes, so I can't comment on Naruto, but I completely agree that the Soul Society arc of Bleach was amazing, and after that it got very boring very fast.

It is true for many, not just Bleach. Maybe the makers just get too overconfident when the Anime starts off well. :\

countryemo
October 14th, 2010, 10:59 PM
Well I think kanto was pretty good
--
Johto was meh to me, I watched very little
--
When it got to hoenn I tried to watch Every Single Epasode when it was on. I loved that series, and the epicness contunied on with battle fronteir
--
Sinnoh is when I thought that the anime was getting riducless, not because of the voice or many others people keep saying.
It just didnt really feel good to me? xD. Some episodes did, I enjoyed parts, like johto.
--
Even if I havent watch the english yet, I think that Best Wishies is increbily amazing so far, I cant wait for more! ^.^
---

Honestly I still loved to watch even though the voices changed and they got rid of misty. I think it scool how they did that. Its new so why not new voices? :P
Didnt make me cringe /ok maybe Mirage Mastermind did

Hourglasshero
October 15th, 2010, 01:17 AM
i don't think that the anime has gone downhill... It certainly has its flaws(tends to repeat itself) but i love it all the way! I watched it on TV from episode 1 and i am not retarded or anything because i love it! I mean the Best Wishes Episodes are like WOW! so many things happen in so little time! MIJUMARU FTW!

Emonga
October 15th, 2010, 03:48 AM
My boyfriend and I still like the Anime. In fact I get up every Saturday morning at 6:00 AM just to watch it. And the voice don't bug me becuase after you watch the show for awhile you don't really care any more about it becuase you get used to it. At least I did anyway.

2nd-Thanatos
October 15th, 2010, 06:42 AM
They are scripted. And since the animé now seems to want to restrict itself to four moves per Pokémon just like in the games they would end up using the same attacks.

What I meant to say is that it's always the same effects, the same attacks done the same way. If you compare to the manga (or any manga out there) you can see that even when characters do the same attack, things change. The opponents react diferent, the animation may be diferent, the angle will be different. How mnay times during Ash's battle against the 7th Sinnoh Leader did we see the same scenes repeated? That is kinda pathetic in XXI century.

As for the script, how many times didn't we seen the same sequence? X pokemon is fighting against Y, but Y is stronger. Ash cheers him up by saying he can do it, X evolves and beat Y.


They're ten. Why wouldn't they act childish?
Because not only 10 year olds are acting dumb. Officers, Gym Leaders, villains... Not to talk about Team Rocket. Now they are just annoying.

He said that over a decade ago. It's sad that people still use this to try and support their arguments still.

I can't see why it's sad. Sorry, but what really is kinda sad is that you're taking this almost personaly just to defend an anime.
By the way, the point of that sentence is, with the Pokemon Universe you can write many, many stories. Not only Pokemon Special, not Golden Boys, or whatever. There are TONS of possibilities, and I'm pretty sure the story could be much better without changing it's main target (kids).

Why does the animé need to follow Pokémon Special? They're are plenty more Pokémon manga out there.
Of course. And aren't they all better than the anime?

Vernikova
October 15th, 2010, 01:41 PM
What I meant to say is that it's always the same effects, the same attacks done the same way. If you compare to the manga (or any manga out there) you can see that even when characters do the same attack, things change. The opponents react diferent, the animation may be diferent, the angle will be different. How mnay times during Ash's battle against the 7th Sinnoh Leader did we see the same scenes repeated? That is kinda pathetic in XXI century.

As for the script, how many times didn't we seen the same sequence? X pokemon is fighting against Y, but Y is stronger. Ash cheers him up by saying he can do it, X evolves and beat Y.

So you're talking about the animation? That's a result of the **** budget that show has. It's ugly to look at but it's been there since the beginning.

Because not only 10 year olds are acting dumb. Officers, Gym Leaders, villains... Not to talk about Team Rocket. Now they are just annoying.

What do you mean by dumb? Like, not being able to see the obvious and stuff?

I can't see why it's sad. Sorry, but what really is kinda sad is that you're taking this almost personaly just to defend an anime.

Don't half-ass it. I must be sad or not sad at all. Am I taking it personally or not? You must decide sir.

Anyway, it's sad because he said that over over a decade ago and it's very weird to use it in a discussion today.

By the way, the point of that sentence is, with the Pokemon Universe you can write many, many stories. Not only Pokemon Special, not Golden Boys, or whatever. There are TONS of possibilities, and I'm pretty sure the story could be much better without changing it's main target (kids).

Of course. It's too bad that the animé tries to stick closer to the games these days and not try and take more creative liberties.

Of course. And aren't they all better than the anime?

Some are and some aren't. It depends sir.

2nd-Thanatos
October 15th, 2010, 03:54 PM
So you're talking about the animation? That's a result of the **** budget that show has. It's ugly to look at but it's been there since the beginning.

Well, I don't know. Pokémon is supposed to be very popular at Japan. And if the show is popular, it would be logic to have at least a decent budget. Again I say: I don't know.

What do you mean by dumb? Like, not being able to see the obvious and stuff?

Yeah. Ironically, there is no evolution in Pokemon. Characters still act the same way they did during the 1st season. I know Ash is supposed to never grow up, but even Coyote knew ACME's stuff wouldn't work xD

How many episodes have Pokemon? 650, moreless? And how many times did Team Rocket tried to steal Pikachu with the same stupid traps, and Pikachu escaped the same way? Even kids know Team Rocket will never win. There is not even a little surprise element. You easily can guess what will happen next. Like the example I said above about how the battles are.



Don't half-ass it. I must be sad or not sad at all. Am I taking it personally or not? You must decide sir.

Even through your last post looked quite "straight", I hope you're not taking it personally. What would be REALLY sad is to argue and get angry with someone just because we have different points of view. Points of view about Pokémon, by the way xD

Anyway, it's sad because he said that over over a decade ago and it's very weird to use it in a discussion today.

You're right. But, think about it. If you create a universe with elements that drastically change the way of life (in this case, Pokémons)... Which world is the closest to how things really would've been? The Animé, or the Manga? If you ask me, the Manga wins this.

Of course. It's too bad that the animé tries to stick closer to the games these days and not try and take more creative liberties.

Can you tell me your opinion about this? I mean, if the games change their formula to something completely different (Pokemon Journey and all, but done in a different way or with different elements)... Would if affect the show? The result would be good or bad?

Vernikova
October 15th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Well, I don't know. Pokémon is supposed to be very popular at Japan. And if the show is popular, it would be logic to have at least a decent budget. Again I say: I don't know.

It is popular. I don't know why it has a **** budget though.

Yeah. Ironically, there is no evolution in Pokemon. Characters still act the same way they did during the 1st season. I know Ash is supposed to never grow up, but even Coyote knew ACME's stuff wouldn't work xDWell, that would refer to the main characters since the other characters don't appear often outside of their region.

How many episodes have Pokemon? 650, moreless? And how many times did Team Rocket tried to steal Pikachu with the same stupid traps, and Pikachu escaped the same way? Even kids know Team Rocket will never win. There is not even a little surprise element. You easily can guess what will happen next. Like the example I said above about how the battles are. They act more "serious" in the new saga. Of course, it runs on a formula which is pretty bad for a show running this long.

Even through your last post looked quite "straight", I hope you're not taking it personally. What would be REALLY sad is to argue and get angry with someone just because we have different points of view. Points of view about Pokémon, by the way xDNo one takes it personally. They shouldn't since it's a kids television show. I think it's because my lack of smiley usage.

You're right. But, think about it. If you create a universe with elements that drastically change the way of life (in this case, Pokémons)... Which world is the closest to how things really would've been? The Animé, or the Manga? If you ask me, the Manga wins this. They're both pretty unrealistic anyway. The fact that children are able to fight and defeat crime syndicates is silly within itself. Military presencce isn't shown too much so I don't know.

Can you tell me your opinion about this? I mean, if the games change their formula to something completely different (Pokemon Journey and all, but done in a different way or with different elements)... Would if affect the show? The result would be good or bad?it should affect the show. The show promotes the games so anything the games have the show will try to advertise. That's why there are seemingly no Pokémon Contests in the new region because there are no Pokémon Contests in the new games. Whether or not it would come out good would depend first on the games and then on the writers.

Ersatz
October 15th, 2010, 09:35 PM
I was one of those people that didn't really like the new seasons as they came along. But just recently, especially with Best Wishes, I've been finding that it's not that bad as I thought. If I looked at it separately, it has it's own charm that I enjoy just as much as I did with the original season of the series. I'm enjoying the latest season as it is; some little bits do bother me but it's still good.

serabeth
October 15th, 2010, 10:19 PM
If I looked at it separately, it has it's own charm that I enjoy just as much as I did with the original season of the series.

I definitely agree with you on this. You kind of have to appreciate it for what it is. If you watch pokemon expecting some beautifully dramatic masterpiece, you're going to be disappointed. But if you just go into it looking for a fun, lighthearted, often silly series that can be heartwarming at times, you'll probably like it a lot more :P.

Giraffe
October 16th, 2010, 12:16 AM
I'm not really a fan of the Diamond/Pearl Anime Series - I think it's become less detailed/interesting than the past Anime.

Pokémandias
October 16th, 2010, 02:19 AM
I think that Pokémon the Anime seriously jumped the sharpedo when Brock just completely gave up on life and became the world's most milkshake blooded losersaurus pathetic. Pokémon breeding? Nobody even knows how Pokémon breed they've never seen an Egg being laid! Brock basically just said he wants to do nothing with his life.

mervyn797
October 16th, 2010, 02:37 AM
I think that Pokémon the Anime seriously jumped the sharpedo when Brock just completely gave up on life and became the world's most milkshake blooded losersaurus pathetic. Pokémon breeding? Nobody even knows how Pokémon breed they've never seen an Egg being laid! Brock basically just said he wants to do nothing with his life.
I don't really understand what exactly you want to say, but didn't Brock say that he wanted to become a Pokemon Doctor and left Ash for his journey to Isshu? He is not wasting his life or anything. And Pokemon breeding isn't helping Pokemon to breed. XD; Try reading this (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Breeder_%28Trainer_class%29) sometime.

serabeth
October 17th, 2010, 12:18 AM
I think that Pokémon the Anime seriously jumped the sharpedo when Brock just completely gave up on life and became the world's most milkshake blooded losersaurus pathetic. Pokémon breeding? Nobody even knows how Pokémon breed they've never seen an Egg being laid! Brock basically just said he wants to do nothing with his life.

Breeding in the anime and in real life isn't just about putting a male and a female together for offspring, you know. Would you tell a friend that was interested in caring for animals and possibly becoming a veterinarian that he or she was doing nothing with their life :P?

Pokémandias
October 17th, 2010, 12:29 AM
I was more saying that I don't like Brock.

If Brock was dedicating his life to becoming a Nurse Joy or a Chansey, I would've said that's a worthwhile goal. It always seems like his extent into Pokémon breeding involves preparing food. He's more a Pokémon chef

RainbowWing
October 17th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I thought everyone stopped watching when Misty left?

well, yes. i didn't honestly care when misty left. mostly because everyone would of got sick if misty still stayed in the anime, and she did made some appearances.

moon_light
October 17th, 2010, 08:04 AM
well I personally don't think the anime is getting worse. Some characters may be lacking in personality and development (especially some of the female traveling partners), but from what I've seen from BW so far it's not as bad, I'm actually looking forward to the BW arc :D. As for the change in voice actors, I didn't like the new voices at first but after awhile I liked some of them better than the old ones. It's the same thing with pokemon designs when gen V came out - they're really not that bad (the designs and the anime, I mean), we just need time to get used to them. No anime is perfect, there are many flaws in pokemon, that's for sure, but I'm pretty sure an anime isn't meant to be analyzed like a literary essay anyway. While it's true that there are lots of fillers and most episodes are 'cliche', I like watching it just because it's pokemon and it's nice to watch a non-serious anime from time to time. If you don't like it, then just don't watch it, no one's forcing anyone to watch the anime.

I guess most people don't like the anime anymore because they've grown up and it doesn't appeal to them as much. It's a shame that the pokemon anime receives so much criticism just because people have grown up while the anime hasn't. In most cases, people only play the games because everything else "pokemon" seems childish (at least this is the feeling I'm getting everywhere). I only know one other person IRL who is my age and watches the anime closely xD




btw, the only thing I don't like about the anime is how Ash loses all the experience he gains in his previous journeys when he starts a new one xD


[edit] about the creators taking out the 'adult stuff' from the anime, I don't think there were that many in the original series in the first place. And if there were, I think it's because of the dub, not the actual show. There's a difference in the script for the english and japanese dubs, mainly because the english script writers try to make TR sound witty (which I don't think works that well) xD

serabeth
October 17th, 2010, 09:06 PM
I was more saying that I don't like Brock.

If Brock was dedicating his life to becoming a Nurse Joy or a Chansey, I would've said that's a worthwhile goal. It always seems like his extent into Pokémon breeding involves preparing food. He's more a Pokémon chef

Yeah, I understand. I'm not really a fan of Brock's, either. To be fair, he is often seen displaying way more knowledge about pokemon than Ash or any of his companions, and is usually the one looking after the injured pokemon, too. But it would've been nice to see his failures as well as his successes. He never seems to have any difficulty figuring out the perfect type of pokemon food for any pokemon, and he always ends up befriending pokemon with ease. He also almost always knows everything whenever a real question comes up. His character becomes kind of dull once you realize he already knows everything.

People seem to be having generally positive reactions to the Black and White episodes, though. I'm still on the Sinnoh ones, though I'm ending up skipping a lot of filler episodes. I really like Paul as a character -- he's really interesting, and not just pure evil or pure arrogance like I thought he might be when we first met him. I just don't like how Ash keeps losing to him. I've never watched any of the Sinnoh League episodes, but I am already pretty sure Ash will beat him there. All these losses are totally setting him up for it =/...

One thing they've kept throughout the anime that I think is good is that not all the pokemon evolve. Bulbasaur still remains my favorite personality of all of Ash's pokemon. And I think it's awesome that he never evolved.

Pokémandias
October 18th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Yeah, I understand. I'm not really a fan of Brock's, either. To be fair, he is often seen displaying way more knowledge about pokemon than Ash or any of his companions, and is usually the one looking after the injured pokemon, too. But it would've been nice to see his failures as well as his successes. He never seems to have any difficulty figuring out the perfect type of pokemon food for any pokemon, and he always ends up befriending pokemon with ease. He also almost always knows everything whenever a real question comes up. His character becomes kind of dull once you realize he already knows everything.

I'm happy you see my point. I also hate how Ash keeps losing to any lv.5 scrub that comes along as soon as he starts his journey over again. It's like Pikachu loses all his power at the beginning and hasn't been beating Dragonite's left and right for like 10 years.

Also is it me or is Brock usually the one saddled with more unruly Pokémon than normal?

~PokemonMaster~
October 19th, 2010, 07:11 PM
I like the endings of the seasons. The tournaments. I also think the gym battles are pretty good.
But the beginning of Gen III, IV, and V seasons really annoyed me. Pikachu keeps losing to new weak Pokemon, it is really messed up

CliveKoopa
October 19th, 2010, 11:06 PM
I don't think the anime has gone downhill at all. It is still as good as ever...

bayonetta.
October 20th, 2010, 08:24 PM
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la3z1sDIJC1qa8kbzo1_500.png

that's why. the first few episodes were awesome, it's nosedived since johto. I'd say because EVERY EPISODE IS THE SAME WHAT

mervyn797
October 21st, 2010, 04:05 AM
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la3z1sDIJC1qa8kbzo1_500.png

that's why. the first few episodes were awesome, it's nosedived since johto. I'd say because EVERY EPISODE IS THE SAME WHAT
What you posted is the description of a typical filler episode in the Pokemon Anime. I know that nobody likes filler episodes, and the ones in the Pokemon Anime aren't even quite interesting.
But still, some gym battles and contests can be entertaining as well.

CliveKoopa
October 21st, 2010, 05:55 AM
What you posted is the description of a typical filler episode in the Pokemon Anime. I know that nobody likes filler episodes, and the ones in the Pokemon Anime aren't even quite interesting.
But still, some gym battles and contests can be entertaining as well.

That's your opinion. I like fillers, I like them a lot. So you're wrong when you say NOBODY likes fillers.

mervyn797
October 21st, 2010, 07:23 AM
That's your opinion. I like fillers, I like them a lot. So you're wrong when you say NOBODY likes fillers.
Okay.. agreed. But not many of us prefer having so many filler episodes, where nothing special takes place.

serabeth
October 22nd, 2010, 05:48 PM
I think fillers are easier to watch if you just look at them as cannon, since technically they are. Sometimes filler characters will reoccur; not all of them are thrown away. And according to the anime, all of the filler episodes actually did happen (unlike in some series like Naruto, which is 100% based off manga, so any filler episodes didn't really happen).

My only complaint is that not enough character development happens in the fillers. If you don't want to advance the main plot, fine. But usually the only development we see in fillers is that Ash learns some obvious battling strategy (pay attention to the environment, monitor your pokemon's well-being, believe in your pokemon, etc.), rather than experiencing a deepening of his character.

It might also be interesting to learn more about the various characters' pasts in-depth. Dawn barely seems to have a past at all. What did she do for 10 years, anyways? There was one incident at one point in time with Plusle and Minun and then...? Even May had more of a past...

One major thing they should do differently is have more of Team Rocket's schemes span several episodes. In other series, we get so frustrated when the villains get away with something. In pokemon, we know Team Rocket rarely has possession of pikachu (or other stolen pokemon) for more than 5-10 min or so. Let them get away with something already, even if it's just for an arc of episodes!