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Fushigidane-Chan
October 21st, 2010, 06:14 PM
I've recently read the announcement (http://www.pokecommunity.com/announcement.php?f=35&a=334) in the New Users forum which prohibits generic welcome messages. It seems the major concern that resulted in this rule was that users will simply post in the forum to increase their postcounts.

The thing is, sometimes it may be hard to type a non-generic welcome message for each new member that posts in the forum. Many times, new members simply don't provide enough information to be able to do that. In addition, I'd imagine that this announcement essentially scares many of the members simply wanting to welcome a new member, out of the fear they may receive an infraction or warning if their message isn't non-generic enough.

I'd also like to add how my initial welcome thread made five years ago received a total of 22 posts. My new one, made a month ago, received only 5. I think new users would feel much more welcome if many more new users welcomed them, which I think would happen if this new rule was abolished.

I think an alternative solution would be simply to not allow posts made in the forum to add to your postcount. So those who only care about their postcounts, for whatever reason, would leave the forum alone, whereas those who simply want to welcome new members would be allowed to even if their messages are a little generic.

I hope you consider this alternative, and I apologize if this suggestion has been made before and turned down. Thank you for your time, members and moderators. :]

Patchisou Yutohru
October 21st, 2010, 06:17 PM
I wouldn't have any objections to that.

Zorua
October 21st, 2010, 06:30 PM
You'd have people spamming up NU/W regardless of whether postcount was the true motive or not. Now, I could be wrong here, and things could change if postcount was removed from the forum, but I honestly don't see it changing much(in fact, I see it getting worse in the long run).

I'd also like to add how my initial welcome thread made five years ago received a total of 22 posts. My new one, made a month ago, received only 5. I think new users would feel much more welcome if many more new users welcomed them, which I think would happen if this new rule was abolished.

What new rule? The Generic posting rule? I highly doubt that's gonna happen. Would you truly be satisfied with a bunch of "welcome to PC!" messages and nothing else? Are you serious? The new rule is actually helping, not hurting, because users are forced to actually post greetings that are actually greetings and not generic crap for postcount or because they don't really have anything else to do.

The thing is, sometimes it may be hard to type a non-generic welcome message for each new member that posts in the forum. Many times, new members simply don't provide enough information to be able to do that. In addition, I'd imagine that this announcement essentially scares many of the members simply wanting to welcome a new member, out of the fear they may receive an infraction or warning if their message isn't non-generic enough.

You have to keep in mind that you're not obligated to welcome anyone. It's just something members do out of the good of their hearts to welcome new members into PC. If you really cared about the new members, you wouldn't be so concerned about the rule. Why don't you introduce the positive aspects of PC? Some of the forum sections that might be pleasing to the new users? Tell them to read the rules before they post in certain sections? Advice? There are so many things to include in a welcome post that there is little to no excuse for having generic messages. |: People need to stop being lazy(lol me being the hypocritical lazy person but still).

Going back on the postcount issue, I'd only see it helping slightly(theoretically, that is). But I want to ask something that would hopefully be considered: Would it really be effective in the long run? I imagine that even if the postcount was abolished in NU/W, people still wouldn't know what to say when welcoming the new users, which would still result in a "generic" message. So I don't think it's so much postcount as it is trying to establish a greeting that it's an issue, or some users being plain lazy.

My two cents, though. I don't think postcount nor the generic messages rule should be abolished.

EDIT: The "you" in which I use isn't specific "you", but general "you".

Fushigidane-Chan
October 21st, 2010, 06:45 PM
What new rule? The Generic posting rule? I highly doubt that's gonna happen. Would you truly be satisfied with a bunch of "welcome to PC!" messages and nothing else? Are you serious? The new rule is actually helping, not hurting, because users are forced to actually post greetings that are actually greetings and not generic crap for postcount or because they don't really have anything else to do.

I don't mind generic "welcome to PC!" messages, considering I'll get those than none at all. Again, there just doesn't seem to be a large amount of people who welcome new members, and it not only gives off a bad first impression of the forum, but makes new members feel lonely. I certainly didn't feel that welcome when only three people bothered to welcome me. The rule is taking a toll more on new members than the welcomers. I feel that should change.

You have to keep in mind that you're not obligated to welcome anyone. It's just something members do out of the good of their hearts to welcome new members into PC. If you really cared about the new members, you wouldn't be so concerned about the rule. Why don't you introduce the positive aspects of PC? Some of the forum sections that might be pleasing to the new users? Tell them to read the rules before they post in certain sections? Advice? There are so many things to include in a welcome post that there is little to no excuse for having generic messages. |: People need to stop being lazy(lol me being the hypocritical lazy person but still).

Some people want to welcome new members, but don't have the time to bother writing a different message for each new member. Besides, if you write a very helpful welcome message, linking to the rules, recommending forums and all that jazz, but you post the same message to every new member... Isn't that also generic posting? Most people don't have the time, and more likey, just don't want to bother. And I don't blame them.

Going back on the postcount issue, I'd only see it helping slightly(theoretically, that is). But I want to ask something that would hopefully be considered: Would it really be effective in the long run? I imagine that even if the postcount was abolished in NU/W, people still wouldn't know what to say when welcoming the new users, which would still result in a "generic" message. So I don't think it's so much postcount as it is trying to establish a greeting that it's an issue, or some users being plain lazy.

While abolishing this rule may lower the amount of non-generic ones, I feel that it'd be worth it just to have many more people welcome new members. The fact users try to raise their postcounts through this method seems to be the biggest concern among the moderators. With this alternative, the same goal will remain.

Zorua
October 21st, 2010, 06:59 PM
I don't mind generic "welcome to PC!" messages, considering I'll get those than none at all. Again, there just doesn't seem to be a large amount of people who welcome new members, and it not only gives off a bad first impression of the forum, but makes new members feel lonely. I certainly didn't feel that welcome when only three people bothered to welcome me. The rule is taking a toll more on new members than the welcomers. I feel that should change.

I'm sorry, but that is just terrible. Generic messages aren't welcoming to the user at all. Looking at your post more closely, I feel that you should appreciate the amount of welcomes that you even had. Having three-to-five quality welcomes is not only better than having 30 "welcome to pc lol!" spammy ones, but it's better than having none at all. >> Believe it or not, there are some users that are like this. And it's not because of the rule. Nobody(exaggeration) bothers to welcome people out of the good of their hearts anymore. Quality should almost always be over quantity(almost, seeing as there are always exceptions).


Some people want to welcome new members, but don't have the time to bother writing a different message for each new member. Besides, if you write a very helpful welcome message, linking to the rules, recommending forums and all that jazz, but you post the same message to every new member... Isn't that also generic posting? Most people don't have the time, and more likey, just don't want to bother. And I don't blame them.


No. Because not every member posts the same exact thing. What if they mention their interests? What if some members comes and introduces themselves and says they're interested in the Pokemon TCG, Movies, or i dunno, general anime? Can you at least relate to them, in addition with giving the user some helpful tips and advice? On that case, no it's not generic posting because not all of the content of the post is the same every single time. It really wouldn't kill you to include some helpful tips to the user, as well as include some variety in your greetings. Don't greet for the sake of greeting, greet for the sake of the person, to make them feel welcome.

While abolishing this rule may lower the amount of non-generic ones, I feel that it'd be worth it just to have many more people welcome new members. The fact users try to raise their postcounts through this method seems to be the biggest concern among the moderators. With this alternative, the same goal will remain.

I disagree. What you're trying to encourage is more spammy welcomes and less quality welcomes, and the fact of the matter is, if this happens, it's more than likely that NU/W will be one hellhole of 30 replies to one thread being all "welcome to pc!" with no solid content ever. With this being said, Hiidoran is doing all that he can to limit the amount of spam in NU and encourage the quality welcomes. It would make the new user feel more welcomed in the end if the person greeting them was more involved and more in-depth with their greeting than something dry and un-interesting, y'know? >>;

Gumball Watterson
October 21st, 2010, 07:02 PM
I feel like we should do the only intelligent thing Pokemonopolis does.

Make just one thread for welcoming members, move it in here, and get rid of the forum.

Zorua
October 21st, 2010, 07:04 PM
I feel like we should do the only intelligent thing Pokemonopolis does.

Make just one thread for welcoming members, move it in here, and get rid of the forum.

Aka the New Users Hangout Thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=186605) has just gained an extra 50 pounds. Not only that, new users have a 90% chance of being completely unnoticed.

o0PinkSquid0o
October 21st, 2010, 07:11 PM
I like the idea of stopping post count but letting people still welcome newbies. I don't see the issue, either way you're pretty much getting the same outcome. Getting an infraction for saying "Hey! Welcome to PC, Have fun" because its generic is kinda on the ridiculous side!

Zorua
October 21st, 2010, 07:14 PM
I like the idea of stopping post count but letting people still welcome newbies. I don't see the issue, either way you're pretty much getting the same outcome. Getting an infraction for saying "Hey! Welcome to PC, Have fun" because its generic is kinda on the ridiculous side!

It's pretty logical because, y'know, it's kinda dry and lacks involvement with the user and it's

greeting for the sake of greeting

o0PinkSquid0o
October 21st, 2010, 07:18 PM
Why else would you greet if it wasn't for the sake of greeting then?

Greeting for the sake of greeting still makes a user feel welcome.

I'm just saying, I really think its going overboard on the rules...like a nanny forum.

here, take a warning for saying welcome.

Zorua
October 21st, 2010, 07:20 PM
Why else would you greet if it wasn't for the sake of greeting then?

Greeting for the sake of greeting still makes a user feel welcome.

I'm just saying, I really think its going overboard on the rules...like a nanny forum.

here, take a warning for saying welcome.

....

If you really cared about the new members, you wouldn't be so concerned about the rule. Why don't you introduce the positive aspects of PC? Some of the forum sections that might be pleasing to the new users? Tell them to read the rules before they post in certain sections? Advice? There are so many things to include in a welcome post that there is little to no excuse for having generic messages. |: People need to stop being lazy(lol me being the hypocritical lazy person but still).


Don't greet for the sake of greeting, greet for the sake of the person, to make them feel welcome.

Generic messages is hardly an attempt to make anyone feel welcome.

Hiidoran
October 21st, 2010, 07:23 PM
First of all, I wanna thank you for actually bringing up a very valid point, and I myself have noticed a decrease in the number of responses NU/W has been getting. Always good to hear some feedback - that's how we grow. However, it started decreasing before I implemented the rule, and if you go back just a bit... you'll realize NU/W decreased in its "frequent" members due to heavier moderation, because frankly, it was a bit spammy before Beachboy did a rehaul of the board about two years ago.

Now, you mentioned that you yourself would rather see a good number of "Welcome to the PokéCommunity!" than a few quality welcomes. In stark contrast, however, I've been approached by many members who demanded an answer as to why I would allow such blatant spamming to occur, and that they were actually offended to see that members would post the same messages over and over in every thread. So, it kinda works both ways.

Just to note, I have never given an infraction to this point for generic responses, that would be very harsh, and we don't even have a set infraction for it - I don't feel we need one. If I see members who are blatantly, and I mean you could see it from space now, welcoming members with absolutely no enthusiasm, the post simply gets deleted. I tried to convey that in the annoucement. I'm not going to be a robot on this. We have human moderators for a reason, after all. I evaluate each post, and yes, I have read every single one. Copy and paste welcomes have been punished before, but members should know better.

As for disabling post count in NU/W, you're right, it has been suggested before. I have actually given a lot of thought about this very same thing numerous times, and if ever I felt it would fit for NU/W, I would bring it up to the H-staff behind closed doors in a heart beat. You do, however, deserve an explanation as to why I feel this way, and here's what, in a nut shell, my response was last time:
I've actually thought about this before, but not for too long. Here's why:

Good, or even decent welcomes actually take a fair amount of time to think out and type up. I've seen many members frequent NU/W over the years that I've been active there, and the good welcomers always have unique and substantial posts. If they go through all that trouble of welcoming new members, giving them good advice, and doing it in a unique way each and every time... I say the least we can do is give them a +1 to their overall post count.

You're right, there are a few people out there that take advantage of the board to increase their post count, but rest assured Drew and I take care of that every day. Since I started modding I don't think there's been a day that I haven't deleted some post for either being insubstantial or being a copy and paste reply. Trust me, they don't go unnoticed, and they don't go unpunished.

There are a good few that like to get away on technicalities - changing up their welcomes just enough to get by... but they're few and far between. Besides, if it's obvious they're just welcoming for the sake of spam, we'll take care of it eventually.

Just thought I'd throw my two cents out there.

Sora
October 21st, 2010, 07:23 PM
I myself would rather get quality posts, than a whole bunch of 'welcome to PC!'. Ive had them on other forums, and let's just say that I haven't been to them in a while. PC, on the other hand, gave me quality welcome posts when I first joined, and although I did take a few months of a break, look where I am today.

Pretty much just quoting with what I said not too long ago somewhere. To me a 'Generic' Welcome isn't really much of a welcome. Now, if they welcomed you, and then add a little tadbit to it "Welcome to the Forums! Oh? You like _____ as well! Awesome!" or in my case when I joined: "Welcome to the Forums! It looks like you already read the rules, that's awesome!" then one can feel much more comfortable with being where they are as a new member.

/is just extending with that Twilight Sky, she realizes, but just think about it a tad.

Oh.. and ahaha... Larry beat me. But Personal Experience with Actual Welcomes > Generic ones for the win?

Ayselipera
October 21st, 2010, 07:29 PM
Well as an active poster in NU/W I find it's not hard at all to put a little effort into a welcome thread. If anything I think the rule has helped a lot. More members are taking the time to go the extra mile and write out a kind and helpful welcome. I feel like if you took away the post count a lot of members would just resort back to one liner posts.

I do also have another thought that contradicts my first. That being that taking away the post count will then truly open up NU/W to members who post there because they actually enjoy welcoming others. Although seeing as how most threads there get about five to six posts at most I also feel like then maybe even less members will post due to the loss of post count.

So for me I really can't pinpoint what would happen exactly. It's hard to say since NU/W isn't exactly comparable to the other sections here where post count doesn't count.

Gumball Watterson
October 21st, 2010, 08:09 PM
Aka the New Users Hangout Thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=186605) has just gained an extra 50 pounds. Not only that, new users have a 90% chance of being completely unnoticed.

That thread is simple questions and discussion with new people. Obliterate welcome threads and just have users post their hello's and welcome's inside one thread. Whether those go on a separate thread or united with the hangout doesn't matter. And I'm sorry Hiidoran, I respect you as a moderator really but I feel that one little place for discussion for the new members would be sufficient.

Of course some may argue that because of this Board's increasing popularity that we should keep separate welcome threads for each member. Actually, the opposite should be true because there arent many dedicated people to welcome each and every one. This causes many members to feel diswelcome and obviously the count for active members will plummet. One single thread makes things easier for the welcomers and promotes social interactions that multiple threads wont cause. In the end more people are encouraged to actually stay members of PC.

Zorua
October 21st, 2010, 08:20 PM
That thread is simple questions and discussion with new people. Obliterate welcome threads and just have users post their hello's and welcome's inside one thread. Whether those go on a separate thread or united with the hangout doesn't matter. And I'm sorry Hiidoran, I respect you as a moderator really but I feel that one little place for discussion for the new members would be sufficient.


The thing is, that thread is not just for New users discussion, don't let the title fool you or anything. If anything, it's essentially the same thing as welcoming new users that don't really want to make a new thread. If you looked at the thread, it's pretty much exactly what I said. New users introducing themselves and other people greeting them. o_o; That, and it pretty much, as I said, eliminates users mostly from being noticed. I feel that having separate threads would become much more beneficial, and it would feel sort of restricted having all welcomes in one thread, in a sense, I suppose...

Of course some may argue that because of this Board's increasing popularity that we should keep separate welcome threads for each member. Actually, the opposite should be true because there arent many dedicated people to welcome each and every one. This causes many members to feel diswelcome and obviously the count for active members will plummet. One single thread makes things easier for the welcomers and promotes social interactions that many threads don't. In the end more people are encouraged to actually stay members of PC.

I agree with most of what you said. There really aren't that many people on the welcome wagon anymore, and it's pretty disappointing compared to how NU used to be. But I don't understand one thing: What would be the significant change/outcome of this? What would be the difference between, I don't know, having not that many greetings in a separate thread vs not having that many greetings in a huge welcome thread? The amount of replies doesn't change, and the amount of people greeting the members really doesn't change. The problem isn't the threads, it's the amount of people that are currently welcoming in NU, it seems.

If that wasn't an issue, NU/W would be flourishing with activity and with a diverse amount of people welcoming others, etc...

Hiidoran
October 21st, 2010, 08:27 PM
And I'm sorry Hiidoran, I respect you as a moderator really but I feel that one little place for discussion for the new members would be sufficient.Aww... thanks. :D Kinda wonder what would be my fate in a situation like that... guess I'd just go help moderate whatever board it got moved to... or get fired. BD

Buuuut, I do have to disagree with you. I see you mentioned Pokemonopolis, but no other Pokémon boards. That probably works for them because they only have 376 registered members (yes, I checked 'em out to see how they ran said thread. XD Unless I'm lookin' at the wrong place~). The other big boys in the Pokémon world all have some sort of board solely dedicated to new members, and if nothing else, it's to give new members some initial limelight - and I believe they deserve that.

In a singular thread, your post is likely to get missed amongst a flood of simple questions (what the hangout is known for), to be honest. Members enjoy replying to more interesting introductions, and most of 'em aren't gonna take the time to hit that multi-reply button. If I were to believe they were so inclined to be that helpful... why wouldn't they already be posting in NU/W as it is? Even though NU/W is kinda slowing down a bit, I'd say it's just a bit too early to condense an entire board to a simple thread. Perhaps, if it drastically plunges to deep inactivity, it could be made into a sub-board. I'd say that day is still too far off, however.

Melody
October 21st, 2010, 08:45 PM
Now I happen to agree with the sentiments of the OP...I've even confronted the mods of NU/W privately about this matter some time ago when I noticed the rule was put into place. They reassured me that this was not being over-enforced to my satisfaction, something most staff members would never bother to do otherwise, so I've got reason enough to believe their word.

Still, I do feel that unless the greeting is oh-so-obviously a cookie-cutter greeting that it shouldn't be infracted...a deletion or warning is usually fair game though...and infractions for repeatedly using cookie-cutter greetings is well within their rights.

Personally, as an established member, I DO indeed choose not to bother with greeting new members because of the new rule. I disagree with it on principal really...but there's a fair chance that there's not really a whole lot I can do about it. So unless I really feel like writing something substantial, I simply do ignore NU/W. Now, for the record, let it be known that I couldn't give two figs about my post count, I've been here 6 years now and my post count has not broken 5k. xD

Irregardless of all of that, I think that crowd that gets upset at these 'cookie-cutter' greetings needs to be addressed first, and since mods give no names when they get feedback about their section...good luck. If you want the mods to change it back, you gotta organize people to inundate the NU/W mods with requests to change it back...and even then it's not sure to be successful if they sympathize with the people who think our noobs are "too good for just a simple 'Hi'" :/

Miss Doronjo
October 22nd, 2010, 02:56 AM
I can honestly agree to this rule; and like said above (somewhere) a person who would really care about welcoming new members shouldn't worry about post count. Post Count is kind of a trifling matter anyhow.

I feel its important to properly welcome the new members first of all, because they are likely to be "tomorrows" veterans in this forum; so I guess it'll give them a sense on how we are per se.

As for the generic stuff: I'd think, that actually makes your effort to welcome someone feel far too 'mechanical', and rather defeats the purpose of trying to make them feel special in joining us here. A more personal greeting will make them feel even more welcome, and remember, that's the whole point, to greet everyone and help them to feel a part of the wonderful PokeCommunity here that we all love so much~

I find that this way; a non-genetic welcome, its much easier for new members to get new friends here too, and have a more resolve to visit these forums more often.
And hey--if new members took the time to come here and post an intro, should one take the time post a proper intro too?

However, I also agree that it may be hard to comment on a new user's interests or something so you'd be repeating what you'd say like "welcome to the forums! Enjoy your stay!"
It can happen if there isn't any good insight the new users interests and all that.

...Perhaps I'm probably just basically repeating what someone said here earlier here, or maybe this is too hypocritical for me to say since I've barley welcome people from the new users hangout (but I'm trying my best; it gets so much new users everyday and night. D= its just my thoughts too anyway.

Patchisou Yutohru
October 22nd, 2010, 05:19 AM
Larry asked me to explain why I would approve of this, so that's what I'm going to do in this post.

Before I was on staff, one of the forums I frequented the most was the introductions forum. I spent a good amount of my time welcoming new members for my early life at PC, because I knew how much it was important to their decision to continue being part of the community. New members should feel as welcome as everyone else, or even more so, so they feel comfortable and continue to come here. We want people to continue to come here to help our community grow. We don't want members to post their introduction and never show up on this forum again because a lack of replies. The reason I stopped welcoming members was because I was putting more effort in welcoming them than them introducing themselves. I stalked their profile to see what they liked, if they posted in other forums since their introduction, I mentioned that, I included some generic things here and there as well, of course, and all that jazz. The quality of introductions were declining a great deal, and I lost interest. Stepping there now there are a few good introductions in the sea of terrible, non-helpful ones, but for the most part they are flooded completely. That's what it was like a few years ago, and has always been for the most part. I'd also like to point out that the amount of people who actually stay after they post a welcome is very low - and it essentially makes your welcome, no matter how great it was, irrelevant. Most people I welcomed I never saw again.

I agree o0PinkSquid0o in her statement of getting an infraction for welcoming someone to the community is generic. I can't say I ever supported that, but I do know why it was decided to implement. Welcoming for the case of welcoming is why most people post. It's why I posted. I wanted to welcome members. Sure my post didn't at all fall in the low-quality range of replies, but I still welcomed for the sake of welcoming, so Derk, I really don't understand the logic in that argument.

I wouldn't at all object to this, like I said earlier. The quality of introduction threads themselves are very, very low as a whole, so it's very difficult to reply back to them without a generic welcome message since they created a generic introduction. "Hi, I'm new! I like Pokémon and am glad to be here." Well that's helpful! I can honestly understand a good majority of the reason behind generic welcomes. Only a handful of members actually truly care about helping a members and to me, that's not enough to warrant a forum - and I don't know about you guys, but the less replies to me when I create an introduction thread often end up with me feeling depressed and generally unwelcome to begin with. I don't see how someone would rather get three quality welcomes than a mass amount of generic messages. Those three quality welcomes are still going to be there if they really care about welcoming members. At least those generic posts are welcomes. Sure they won't impact you a great deal, but they won't make you feel ignored. But the ratio of generic messages to well thought out ones come out with the outcome of the generic messages being a larger number tenfold. AdvancedK47 does have a point when he says that you might as well have a thread just right there with how it is now. Three members are usually the amount of members who contribute to the thread to begin with, which isn't enough, in my opinion, no matter how well thought out their welcome is.

The state of the forum should reflect the members who frequent the forum without pushing away or discouraging them from contributing, no matter how small or insignificant the welcome is in the grand scheme of quality welcomes. This is what has already been done, though I do understand why it was decided, because the low quality introductions and replies was the reason for me leaving the forum. And like Miss Doronjo said, if you really care about welcoming a member, you wouldn't care about the +1 post count that comes with it. If you're that concerned, have a quick stop at the DCC in Other Chat to fill in that mind-numbing void.

To make up for this, I feel that the idea of the buddy system should be brought back up for discussion. Disabling post count and adding a buddy system will really make sure that we really do care about the community and bring back the community aspect of our forum name to New Users. I also feel like users who don't create the thread should be allowed more than one reply to the thread, since new users often ask questions in their threads if they have one. Even though that's one of the many purposes of the hangout thread, but it would feel a little more special, direct, and comfortable if it was in their own thread rather than a large one with other people asking questions.

I guess that's all I have to say about it.

Platinum Lucario
October 22nd, 2010, 06:10 AM
OK, well I know for a fact that about 2 years ago, I was slammed with an infraction for genetric posting when I wasn't exactly copy and pasting them, but rather for typing up near exact welcomes, but all of that is now history. Nowadays I tend to avoid posting in the NU/W section to avoid getting slammed with another infraction, because I sure did learn my lession at that time.

However, my main consern nowadays is about the other users that would normally post in the NU/W, like their posts don't exactly have to perfect, do they? Well I know that alot of people that do want to get a high post count or even spam to get 15 posts, they can attempt to copy and paste their welcomes to get 15 posts or more (mostly with new users that have joined and cannot use the extra features used when you normally get 15 posts).

I do believe that disabling people from gaining their post count in the NU/W section will indeed bring an end to many people who want to copy and paste their welcomes to get up to 15 posts. Because the NU/W forum is for "welcoming people, not for raising your post count", like it says in the rules on that forum. And I'm sure disabling the post count on that forum sure would save the trouble of the Moderators having to deleting many copy and pasted posts.

And to be honest, I really don't care about my post count, just like most of us don't. But I certainly DO agree with the idea of disabling the post count in the NU/W.

*Firestar*
October 22nd, 2010, 12:29 PM
To be honest, I couldn't care less about the rule, because if I did post in NU/W, I would make sure all my posts were unique to each member. Not just another different welcome. As said earlier, you want to greet for the sake of the person, not just greeting. AND I couldn't care less about my post count. I've been here around three and a half years, and I've just reached 2K. I would like to become more regular however, but has nothing to do with my post coount. Back to the point. I think that if people are so worried about their post count to post generic welcomes, they are just vain idiots, and not really very considerate, are they now? That's what I say.

Drew
October 22nd, 2010, 12:47 PM
I have to head out the door in like five minutes, but before I do want to say this real quick:

When I join other forums, I'm always more happy to receive a few quality welcomes than I'am to recieve a bunch of "welcome to ___! :)". With generic welcomes, it takes you all of five seconds to look over them, and you don't feel too welcomed at all. All it feels like, is that people took two seconds of their day to type four words to you, and will never talk to you again, nor bother to level / bond with you.

I dunno about other people, but if I went into NU/W and started making four / five words posts in all the threads, just to get a post in there.. I'd feel guilty. And not just because I used to mod that area, it's just because I feel like.. if I don't put any effort into a post - no matter what area it's in, then I shouldn't post at all. Each member that creates an intro thread is a person, who's thankful when some of us take the time to make them feel more welcome than just to give them five words n' then just leave. >_>

/IMO

o0PinkSquid0o
October 22nd, 2010, 01:15 PM
I have to head out the door in like five minutes, but before I do want to say this real quick:

When I join other forums, I'm always more happy to receive a few quality welcomes than I'am to recieve a bunch of "welcome to ___! :)". With generic welcomes, it takes you all of five seconds to look over them, and you don't feel too welcomed at all. All it feels like, is that people took two seconds of their day to type four words to you, and will never talk to you again, nor bother to level / bond with you.

I dunno about other people, but if I went into NU/W and started making four / five words posts in all the threads, just to get a post in there.. I'd feel guilty. And not just because I used to mod that area, it's just because I feel like.. if I don't put any effort into a post - no matter what area it's in, then I shouldn't post at all. Each member that creates an intro thread is a person, who's thankful when some of us take the time to make them feel more welcome than just to give them five words n' then just leave. >_>

/IMO

I didn't get many welcomes in my thread but I didn't really feel that way at the generic welcomes. I just kinda thought, thanks for taking the time, even if it was a small amount to come and have a look in my thread :)

Sometimes I'll go into the new user forum because i feel like welcoming, I'll notice someone with like 0 - 5 replies and decide to welcome them as not many other people have yet... then I get in there and see their welcome note doesn't say much so I'll just say "hey, welcome to blah, hope you enjoy it here!" I mean srsly what else could you write? At least you then become a farmiliar face to them as they browse the forums :)

Kristoph
October 22nd, 2010, 01:55 PM
Pfft I was going to bed when I found out this thread and I felt the need to reply.

I don't see how removing the postcount would help people post more there. People who just spam "hellos" to get postcount aren't going to go back to that forum if that option isn't available anymore, new members are going to lose a quick and easy way to get some free posts to begin their PC experience (and you can't post links, images or smilies until you have 15 posts, keep that in mind), and people who actually care about new people and want to welcome them out of the goodness of their hearts won't feel any difference- unless they just want to say "Hello, welcome to PC, have fun", which... really sounds to me like the first category I mentioned.

Putting a special singular touch in your welcome post for every individual new member isn't that hard, and that will be enough for you to avoid an infraction. Larry isn't strict at all, and he's not going to infract unless he's forced to by constant copy-and-pasted replies.

KanadeTenshi
October 22nd, 2010, 03:07 PM
People who post there come to heartwarmingly welcome members already. I'd quote a common saying: "A big post count doesn't added meters to the thing between your legs", or enlarge your chest or whatever. If you didn't get it post count doesn't really matter.
I don't really care if this thing does come though. The only thing it'll do is reveal post count farmers, heh.

I disagree with making that rule go, it'll make more noncounted posts "Oh hai" > never meet again.

Drew
October 22nd, 2010, 05:13 PM
Putting a special singular touch in your welcome post for every individual new member isn't that hard

Exactly.

There's certainly a way to post something more than "Welcome to PC", plenty of us do it all the time, no matter how short of an intro someone gives. If you don't think you can manage more than what's considered generic, then don't post in that area. Noooo one's forcing anyone else to post in there. xD;

Melody
October 22nd, 2010, 05:29 PM
As I've surely mentioned before, the prime reason I don't post in NU/W is because most newbs can't be bothered to write out a decent introduction for you to learn anything about them. How on earth can a person bond with someone new if they know nothing of them? Sure, you can stalk their profiles and watch where they post, but that is rather time consuming and sometimes frustrating...not every noob posts in places that automatically hint at what they're interested at, and not every noob will have the computer skills to properly fill in their profile on the first day, regardless of how much we desperately wish they did have such skill and common sense to go with it. *shot*

That being said, even when I do find myself in a rare enough mood to ignore my decision to keep clear of NU/W on principal, I pass up threads with generic opening posts...because I really can't personalize a greeting with no data at all...and it'd take DAYS to gather enough intel to personalize a greeting. I simply do not have that much time on my hands, and you can't honestly expect every member to have such time.

As a consequence, NU/W is feeling it's effects. Because of the new rules, there are many people who don't bother to hop onto the Welcome Wagon when it passes by...which is really sad, because one of the great things about PC when I joined was precisely that...the Welcome Wagon made the place a lot less intimidating...which means a heck of a lot to us introspective and shy types.

Fushigidane-Chan
October 22nd, 2010, 05:30 PM
Well, seeing as how the majority seems to disagree with this idea, a moderator may now close this thread if they wish to. Nonetheless, thank you everyone for considering it, and I apologize considering it had been suggested before. ^^'

Hiidoran
October 22nd, 2010, 08:39 PM
Actually... I'd say it's still pretty up-in-the-air, Fushigidane. I'm kinda intrigued that so many feel this way about NU/W, and I wish I would have seen them post there, or even make their opinions known to me before or even after the new "no generic posting" rule was implemented. Pachy approached me, and he himself can tell you I was delighted to see it. XD I think all members should feel free to approach moderators about new policies, and I know I'm always open for discussion. My only argument is that the decrease in activity, as it's being describing, started before the new rule was implemented. If you take the time to look back, introduction threads have only been receiving an average of 3-5 replies for, well, quite a few months now. Took the liberty to pull a random page from July, and took a look at the number of comments to demonstrate this:
1,5,5,3,5,2,3,3,10,3,5,5,12,2,0,0,0,1,2,2,1,1,3,3,2,1,5,1,2

Average =~ 3
*The thirtieth thread on that particular page was deleted, so no need to put that there*

Of course, you're free to view a random page for yourself if you don't wanna believe my statistics.

However, that's not to say that I don't believe we SHOULDN'T try new things for NU/W to gain back some popularity, and thus is why I believe there is still some discussion to be had out of this thread. I think our problem more lies in the fact that veteran members just don't want to post in NU/W anymore. To be quite frank, I'm not sure why. Perhaps, as Nick and Pachy stated, it's because the introductions themselves are sometimes not that interesting... and trust me, I know they get very redundant, very quickly. But, it's not like that's really changed. D: Some people still write amazing introductions, others might be shy and write less. I do believe adding the "adopt-a-newbie" or "mentor" system will really help with this, and the last I heard the Hstaff were discussing this, but I was never further informed.

The only thing I don't understand is how getting rid of post count in New Users / Welcome will cause more people to post? To be honest, the major difference I'm finding in New Users / Welcome is the lack of new threads... it used to be rare for the last twenty threads to go back even two days, and now they sometimes go back four, or even five days. :x I could see a "no +1 to your post count" actually driving away not only members who maybe, for one reason or another, do post there for that purpose, but new members who make threads to get started here at PC. It's often their first thread and their first couple of posts... it should count towards that initial 15. >:

I do thank you guys your opinions, especially those of you who are going to great lengths to explain your view.

o0PinkSquid0o
October 22nd, 2010, 08:57 PM
The only thing I don't understand is how getting rid of post count in New Users / Welcome will cause more people to post? To be honest, the major difference I'm finding in New Users / Welcome is the lack of new threads... it used to be rare for the last twenty threads to go back even two days, and now they sometimes go back four, or even five days. :x I could see a "no +1 to your post count" actually driving away not only members who maybe, for one reason or another, do post there for that purpose, but new members who make threads to get started here at PC. It's often their first thread and their first couple of posts... it should count towards that initial 15. >:

I do thank you guys your opinions, especially those of you who are going to great lengths to explain your view.

I think the getting rid of post count thing was just another suggestion to get rid of so many spammy 'welcome to pc' copy and paste messages. Then members wouldn't only welcome to get the post count up and the members who actually did want to welcome someone would still beable to say "hey welcome to PokeCommunity, seeya 'round" without fear of being infracted or warned :)

Stellar
October 22nd, 2010, 09:22 PM
At first I approved of this suggestion, but upon reading some people's opinions and giving it a little more thought... I really don't think it would make much of a difference.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a simple "Welcome to PC!" message. When I made my first post in NU/W, I wasn't looking for a life-long bond or anything; I was just looking for acknowledgment and a chance to introduce myself. It didn't matter to me whether people took that introduction seriously and sought to be friends or not.

But here's the thing: that's my preference. Just because I don't mind a short and formal greeting doesn't mean the next person won't. I feel like this is one of those issues where we've already reached equal ground, and adjusting the situation anymore wouldn't change a thing. All it would do is irritate those who are happy with the current rules and vice versa.

If anything, I think we should encourage new users to share more of their interests and such. This way, those responding to welcome threads will have more to respond to and new users will feel as though we genuinely care about them.

Zeffy
October 22nd, 2010, 09:26 PM
Just going to get my thoughts out: since most new users get their first post at NU/W, wouldn't they be sad if they don't gain any posts? I mean, they jump in the welcome wagon and they don't get some kind of "salary"? That's just plain...well...I don't know. But wouldn't you get sad that you finally had the courage to post your very first post to find out that it wasn't added at your post count?

Also, since people welcome people for the sake of welcoming, I'd accept the generic "Welcome to PC, have fun!" greeting. At least someone greeted me, and someone thought that I needed a welcoming. Another thing is that there's a rule in NU/W that sates, unless your the thread creator, one post per thread. So...they welcome people and for their effort, they gain +1 in their post count and they become happy. Now if you remove the post count addition in NU/W, it would be like OT/PT, where people will keep saying "Welcome, blah blah blah blargh" just for the heck of it (seriously, I post in OT just for the heck of it but I did gained a lot of friends there). So you see, we welcome people because we want to. If we don't then why would we come on NU/W anyways? Stalk threads? D;

tl;dr - Nothing would change much.

Hiidoran
October 22nd, 2010, 09:34 PM
I understand, and that would be ideal, but I'm just afraid it might not work that way. In essence, I think it would only promote more generic posting (something I'm personally against no matter how you phrase it), and even drive away more traffic to the board over time.

A good number of new members want nothing more than to be welcomed, this is very true. However, a large chunk of new members see NU/W as a place where they can get a few first posts, and be on their way to their image-enabling post count of 15. There's actually nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. Members such as aspiring posters in the Art Gallery and ROM hackers really use NU/W, without spamming for the most part, to help get a head start on this. It's a small service, yes, but I could actually see the removal of post count deterring a lot of them from even bothering with an introduction... and there's no point at all in a board if it's activity sinks too low.

I understand that some of you are afraid of getting an infraction, but really, it takes a lot to get infracted for something so trivial. As I've said, no one has been infracted for this purpose since I implemented the rule over a month ago. Perhaps I worded my announcement just a bit too harshly. :x Allow me to explain that the only posts I delete are those that follow this rule of thumb, "If I cannot tell you've actually read the introduction... you probably put forth no effort." So, say a new member had an introduction like, "Hey everyone! I'm new here and I don't like introducing myself too much. :x" <-Actually a very common introduction.

Absolutely fine: Hey, welcome to PC! Yeah, I was scared at first too.
Will probably get deleted: Welcome to PC! Hope you have fun!

Personally, I just find the latter rude. While both getting rid of post count and this method help deter the latter posts from occurring, I just see this method as an easier way to keep the content in NU/W actually relevant. If you can't come up with anything constructive, for whatever reason, just skip that thread and find a thread that you can be constructive on. The new members who do put forth little effort into introducing themselves won't get too many responses, but that's kinda how it's always been. :x

Ryanna Jameson
October 22nd, 2010, 09:36 PM
Some people still write amazing introductions, others might be shy and write less. I do believe adding the "adopt-a-newbie" or "mentor" system will really help with this, and the last I heard the Hstaff were discussing this, but I was never further informed.

Oh. My. Gosh. I would love love love this to happen, although I seem to have been doing this unofficially as of late.

In any case... I do think getting rid of post count in NU/W would deter people from welcoming the newbies; and as Hiidoran said, wouldn't be very fair to the new people, it being their first few posts and all. From what I've seen, a person's first thread in NU/W is very important. It is usually the first thing they do, and the replies they get kind of... shape their view of the community, at least for a while. If they get none... they are likely to be sad, and possibly will leave. D: Yes I go around once every few days and make sure everyone has at least one welcome. I know I would not be happy at all if I got no replies, and I wouldn't mind if I got simple "Hey welcome to PC" kinds of replies as long as they didn't include the aggravating "(25 char limit)" type of thing stuck on the end. So I think that welcoming new members should be promoted as a good thing to do, regardless of the generic factor.

...Sorry, I rambled a bit.

Drew
October 22nd, 2010, 10:06 PM
In my opinion, there's no way that the post count should be disabled for that area. Part of it's aim to be an area decent enough to keep it's post count. One that isn't spam filled, or full of typical posts like some of other area's who's post count is lost. :/ It would hurt that area more if post count were to be taken away, because even with the post count enabled it reaches low points. Those who want to help that area, and bring some life into it.. why not go post, and throw out some worthy Welcome messages? It's not that hard at all. The 'no generic welcomes' rule was just recently released, so IMO.. it shouldn't be lifted just yet.

Some of us, who have been around longer.. should try to post more in that area, give some worth while messages to newbies, and try to spice it up a little before we give up on it.

As far the Adopt a Newbie thing goes.. that's something the h-staff will have to try to work out again, if enough people really want to see it happen.

Gumball Watterson
October 23rd, 2010, 05:07 AM
On the Adopt-a-newbie thing, I really forgot that even used to exist >__> But I thought the concept was good, so I'd probably help out if it was brought back.

Oh, on the topic of post count itself, I agree with the point that new members would like their first post to actually count. And right Hiidoran, I thought the announcement was sort of harshly worded, but with a few more examples to soft it out it might be a bit easier to welcome people.

Platinum Lucario
October 23rd, 2010, 10:29 AM
Just going to get my thoughts out: since most new users get their first post at NU/W, wouldn't they be sad if they don't gain any posts?

I guess you're right too. As I know already that I'm outvoted. As people would actually enjoy getting their first post and being welcomed to PC sure would make them feel welcomed to the forums.

Disabling the post count in that forum will probably cause the new users to feel less welcomed and without getting a first post. So they would have to post in a different forum in order to get their first post count.

However, not to get off the topic or anything, but I kinda wonder what really is the point of requiring users to have to get to 15 posts in order to use the certain features. Is it just for forum activity? What I do know... is that people shouldn't be forced to to stuff... because I know forcing feels like a really bad thing to do.

LightOfTruth
October 23rd, 2010, 10:33 AM
Trouble is that I have a place I like to look at. I will try and welcome some though as I remember when I was new :)

Rukario
October 23rd, 2010, 12:09 PM
Since its the "starting pad" for new members, we want them to have a place to gain a few quality posts to add to their post count. Granted some users seem to post spammy or irrelevant replies, this is no reason to penalize the new members.

I say no to disabling post count in NU/W

Went
October 23rd, 2010, 01:06 PM
However, not to get off the topic or anything, but I kinda wonder what really is the point of requiring users to have to get to 15 posts in order to use the certain features. Is it just for forum activity? What I do know... is that people shouldn't be forced to to stuff... because I know forcing feels like a really bad thing to do.

It's to stop adbots/spammers from just registering and spamming a whole forum with links. This way, we at least force them to a) not post the actual link, which makes their spam less effective or b) make 15 spam posts first, giving us enough time to detect them.

It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing, and 15 posts isn't that much if you really are planning on stablishing yourself on the forums.

Platinum Lucario
October 23rd, 2010, 10:57 PM
It's to stop adbots/spammers from just registering and spamming a whole forum with links. This way, we at least force them to a) not post the actual link, which makes their spam less effective or b) make 15 spam posts first, giving us enough time to detect them.

It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing, and 15 posts isn't that much if you really are planning on stablishing yourself on the forums.

Ah, now I understand the reason why there is a requirement for 15 posts to gain the extra features. Thanks.

And yeah... disabling the post count in the NU/W would pretty much make it feel unfair for the new members on the forum, like what Zeffy, me, and Steve pretty much have stated already.
Well at least I now know the answers to the things in which I never knew before. After all, we never stop learning. ;D

Avey
October 24th, 2010, 02:48 AM
I really don't see any positive affect on NU/W if post count was disabled. At all. If anything, I'd say it would take away activity than create it and to be honest with you, personal welcomes are much, much cooler than mindless copy/pastes. I know whether I'd want three personal welcomes or twenty variations of 'hey, welcome to PC! Don't forgot to read the rules!'

Pokemon Champion Red
October 24th, 2010, 07:09 AM
Agreed.
It seems that people would decide that it just wouldn't be worth their time to post there.