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Cassino
November 5th, 2010, 10:31 AM
A lot of people joining onto and dropping off of the staff in the past weeks, months, whatever. In my time here I've never observed this so much, so I imagine it's something worth asking about. What are the reasons for these movements (if they're personal or I'm not allowed to ask then nevermind)? Is anyone on temporary leave or are they all indefinite?

Stuff like that, if there's anything more to say then please do, though I'm not out for anything overly specific; it would just be nice to have a greater sense of what's going on without the need for digging through the blogs and VMs of individuals. Perhaps you (ie. administration) could use the forum announcement function to notify members of staff changes, reasons or not.

Forever
November 5th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Apart from Christos and Manipulation, everyone who isn't on staff now (but was in the last few weeks), is on a DLOA (demoted leave of absence for those who don't know). It just happened that a lot of the staff have things come up in their personal lives around this time. Lately, a lot of other staff have been taking DLOAs and came back, too.

Though notification of this stuff is best kept in a seperate forum, where we let each other know if we're going to be inactive. Most of the time, the DLOAs are only for about a two week period or so.

As for other staff members in the last few months, if they're not on the staff now, then they're not staff anymore. Sorry, it's kind of hard to disclose much here.

Arago
November 5th, 2010, 11:47 AM
it would just be nice to have a greater sense of what's going on without the need for digging through the blogs and VMs of individuals. Perhaps you (ie. administration) could use the forum announcement function to notify members of staff changes, reasons or not.
I like this idea. Even though I only rarely visit, that's something Serebii does that really let's the community know what's going on. Whether details are revealed or not. Like you said, it really is a lot easier to go to a single thread than have to go digging through their individual accounts and bugging them about why they're not staff anymore. Seems appropriate to keep the community up to date on what's going on. Maybe not a forum announcement, though. Just a thread located somewhere in the official forums regarding staff changes, without specifics. This doesn't usually happen, but when it does it can get really confusing to know who to go to. Asking questions if someone's gone for good from the staff, or just taking a break seems like more of an unnecessary worry than all that when you can just check a thread.

Bay Alexison
November 5th, 2010, 12:23 PM
I like this idea. Even though I only rarely visit, that's something Serebii does that really let's the community know what's going on. Whether details are revealed or not. Like you said, it really is a lot easier to go to a single thread than have to go digging through their individual accounts and bugging them about why they're not staff anymore. Seems appropriate to keep the community up to date on what's going on. Maybe not a forum announcement, though. Just a thread located somewhere in the official forums regarding staff changes, without specifics. This doesn't usually happen, but when it does it can get really confusing to know who to go to. Asking questions if someone's gone for good from the staff, or just taking a break seems like more of an unnecessary worry than all that when you can just check a thread.
Hm, I think Community Announcements might be a good place to put staff changing announcements. Many members go to that section whenever an announcement like PC events and new features are mentioned. Even though I'm beginning to be good at finding out who's new in staff and who's out, it would be nice to have a thread with that information to find out what's going on staff wise faster.

Cello
November 5th, 2010, 12:24 PM
I like this idea. Even though I only rarely visit, that's something Serebii does that really let's the community know what's going on. Whether details are revealed or not. Like you said, it really is a lot easier to go to a single thread than have to go digging through their individual accounts and bugging them about why they're not staff anymore. Seems appropriate to keep the community up to date on what's going on. Maybe not a forum announcement, though. Just a thread located somewhere in the official forums regarding staff changes, without specifics. This doesn't usually happen, but when it does it can get really confusing to know who to go to. Asking questions if someone's gone for good from the staff, or just taking a break seems like more of an unnecessary worry than all that when you can just check a thread.

Serebii was actually the first thing that came to mind when I saw this idea too, and I have to agree that it's definitely a good idea. It's very informative and helpful to the forum users, despite having a link to the forum moderation/administration team posted at the bottom of the forum.

I feel like a lot of users may be unaware of that, though.

Also, what the... you're not a part of the team anymore either? D:

Guy
November 5th, 2010, 12:32 PM
Also, what the... you're not a part of the team anymore either? D:
Just another reason why I like this idea. Patchisou Yutohru is one of those on a DLoA, along with Went and Astinus if anyone else was wondering.

This is something I can see fitting well into the Community Announcements. Just as Serebii handles their changes in staff; a member of the higher staff (or a designated higher up) updates the thread whenever a staff member may be on leave for an extended amount of time, in which case they may take a DLoA or they have either been demoted / resigned. At least for those who do visit the section, or notice it has been updated from the main page can check it out and be easily aware of why certain staff members may not be on the team anymore without all the "stalking" :]

Cello
November 5th, 2010, 12:42 PM
Patchisou Yutohru is one of those on a DLoA, along with Went and Astinus if anyone else was wondering.

What the what? This is kind of upsetting, I really like the staff here despite having only spoken to a handful of'em.

Oh well, I guess it's just the way things go.

No matter, I definitely hope the idea comes into action, because I was honestly only aware of Manipulation, Christos and Klippy's leave up until this thread. I'm so out of the loop.

Jude Mathis
November 5th, 2010, 01:18 PM
Staff LoA's / DLoA's have always been pretty private, and it's not something we've ever thought important enough to share with the entire forum.. Although, I do agree, I think it would be nice to let other users know what's going with us. Maybe not specific details, but at least an activity status.

Went
November 5th, 2010, 01:36 PM
You know, I always wondered why staff changes were never mentioned outside of the Celebrations forum (and just promotions are mentioned there) XD Simply having a sticky any HS could update whenever there were a change on the staff would be really useful.

The reasons, on the other hand... well, that's up to every one. For instance, Gavin/Abnegation posted a blog entry announcing a temporary absence. I, on the other hand, wanted to keep my reasons private so I didn't. And demotions are just between the higher staff and the particular staff member involved. But just knowing what's going on with each one would be really useful for everybody.

Timbjerr
November 5th, 2010, 02:10 PM
It would be nice to have a sticky'd announcement thread just to differentiate between who's actually been demoted and who's just on a DLoA, so that particularly ambitious members/lower moderators don't take Nick and Went's current status as a sign that one of the mods is about to get promoted and their spot will go a regular member, and then people will start kissing ass left and right. XD

whatever personal reasons behind the DLoA aren't necessary...just a quick note saying that, "Yes, Went and nick are still S-mods and Gav and Astinus are still mods" will suffice. XD

Ninja Caterpie
November 5th, 2010, 03:10 PM
whatever personal reasons behind the DLoA aren't necessary...just a quick note saying that, "Yes, Went and nick are still S-mods and Gav and Astinus are still mods" will suffice. XD

This, pretty much. Telling the difference between DLoAs and resignation/full demotions is a bit hard otherwise.

Zorua
November 5th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Am I the only one that seems to be on the fence with this one?

I don't know. I'd prefer it if staff demotions weren't even announced in the thread, because it seems just a tad bit embarrassing, but that's just me. .__. I'm sorry if I offend anyone through this, but yeah...

Chibi-chan
November 5th, 2010, 03:23 PM
Yeah, the difference between the two would be nice to know. Or staff could just put it in their blog.
I doubt many people knew I was on DLOA before I quit, seeing I didn't bother to tell anyone.
Maybe a thread could be made in Announcements where only staff could post in it and just simply state, 'Hey, I'm on DLOA' or admins could say 'X has been demoted'. There isn't a reason members shouldn't know...it makes things seems sketchy.

Cello
November 5th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Yeah, the difference between the two would be nice to know. Or staff could just put it in their blog.

I suppose, but is the blog section accessible to those who lack tier 2+ donation status?

Chibi-chan
November 5th, 2010, 03:32 PM
I suppose, but is the blog section accessible to those who lack tier 2+ donation status?

All staff members have access to blogs. Thing is, if they don't have 5000 posts or haven't donated, they'd have to mention their DLOA /before/ they actually are DLOA'd

Gumball Watterson
November 5th, 2010, 03:32 PM
I don't know. I'd prefer it if staff demotions weren't even announced in the thread, because it seems just a tad bit embarrassing, but that's just me. .__. I'm sorry if I offend anyone through this, but yeah...

People are going to know you aren't staff anyways because of the username color. It's either announce something on a thread like that or reply to ~20 VMs asking the same thing.

And I agree with the thread. Just for the slight convenience of both staff and members.

Kenshin5
November 5th, 2010, 03:33 PM
Am I the only one that seems to be on the fence with this one?

I don't know. I'd prefer it if staff demotions weren't even announced in the thread, because it seems just a tad bit embarrassing, but that's just me. .__. I'm sorry if I offend anyone through this, but yeah...
If they where to designate between Leaves of Absence and Resigning/Demotions. They could just put Resigned/Demoted. That way it doesn't clearly say they were demoted, because after all they could have quit their job. If people wanted clarification they could go to the said former staff member that either quit or was demoted and ask them their self(pending they feel like disclosing the reason of course). I am not to high on them saying clear out this person was demoted. I think stuff like that should be kept behind closed doors.

Arago
November 5th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Am I the only one that seems to be on the fence with this one?

I don't know. I'd prefer it if staff demotions weren't even announced in the thread, because it seems just a tad bit embarrassing, but that's just me. .__. I'm sorry if I offend anyone through this, but yeah...
"<username> is on a DLoA until <date>."
"<username> is no longer on the staff."

It doesn't have to be so straight forward. Doesn't have to be "<username> was <removed/resigned/suspended> from the staff <because...> <until...>."

Besides, it doesn't really take a genius to figure out staff member + no staff color = not a staff member. Most people assume someone's no longer on the staff as it is if they aren't in their color anymore and it really doesn't take that long to notice, like AdvancedK47 said. Obviously the reason that they're no longer on the staff is not going to be released to anyone. It's not even really released to moderators, or whatever rank the member was a part of. A moderator won't know why another moderator was removed, an s-mod won't know why another s-mod is removed, etc. because it's taken to a forum higher than their own and discussed there (unless you're an SA, where it's discussed infront of you).

bobandbill
November 5th, 2010, 03:44 PM
Yeah, I think the announcements on this is a neat idea - it works well on sppf as mentioned after all, and they don't mention 'why' someone is promoted/moved/on leave/demoted, it just informs the forum the basics which is all anybody really needs to know. Useful too so that members don't go PMing/VMing who they think is a mod when they are on leave for instance, I suppose.

Cello
November 5th, 2010, 03:46 PM
All staff members have access to blogs. Thing is, if they don't have 5000 posts or haven't donated, they'd have to mention their DLOA /before/ they actually are DLOA'd

You misunderstood me. This is meant to be visible to all users, for those curious on knowing the staff status.

Chibi-chan
November 5th, 2010, 03:47 PM
Well, you know someone is officially ex-staff because they'll have the 'ex-staff' emblem.
If...this stays consistent.

@Cello: I'm pretty sure everyone can see blogs o.o

Zorua
November 5th, 2010, 03:54 PM
"<username> is on a DLoA until <date>."
"<username> is no longer on the staff."

It doesn't have to be so straight forward. Doesn't have to be "<username> was <removed/resigned/suspended> from the staff <because...> <until...>."

Besides, it doesn't really take a genius to figure out staff member + no staff color = not a staff member. Most people assume someone's no longer on the staff as it is if they aren't in their color anymore and it really doesn't take that long to notice, like AdvancedK47 said. Obviously the reason that they're no longer on the staff is not going to be released to anyone. It's not even really released to moderators, or whatever rank the member was a part of. A moderator won't know why another moderator was removed, an s-mod won't know why another s-mod is removed, etc. because it's taken to a forum higher than their own and discussed there (unless you're an SA, where it's discussed infront of you).

Yeah, I'd prefer if it was vague, rather than just direct. D: It just makes things so much better, imo. Something like "<username> is no longer on staff" is way better than saying "<username> has been <demoted/fired/suspended> from staff". That's my only concern with this idea. xDD;

Other than this well...I don't necessarily have an issue with this, nor would it make a difference to me. I can usually figure out whether a staff member quit, was on LoA or whatever(I understand this may not be that obvious to other members, which may be why something like this wouldn't be needed).

But thanks for clearing everything up, Nick.

Melody
November 5th, 2010, 04:31 PM
I'd love to see some sort of notification for staff taking a leave. Demotions and resignations can stay private though...I just think there should be a leave list that gets updated every so often, so that staff members taking a leave don't get inundated with pointless messages asking why they're suddenly 'demoted'. Not to mention showing who is just on leave keeps the members from thinking that PC hires/fires it's staff a lot. xD

Because seriously, it IS kinda difficult to tell if they've just requested leave just based upon what emblems they have...there's no guarantee that their emblems will be changed to reflect their status for some time. x3

~RNC~
November 5th, 2010, 05:58 PM
Umm, I like the idea of some sort of announcement but maybe not why, I agree that the reason for a demotion would be embarrassing for all, but if they aren't going be modding for a bit would be nice for all, like if I need to ask a question or some thing I always ask 1 mod, but if she weren't here, I would know that she needed time off and find some one else to ask, but just my opinion!!

Soul Eater
November 5th, 2010, 06:01 PM
"<username> is on a DLoA until <date>."
"<username> is no longer on the staff."


That.

It's pretty much exactly what I was thinking, because it's simple, easy to follow, and gets the job done. No one needs hug explanations, and if they want them, then they can ask said staff members personally. The most difficult thing.. would probably just be updating the thread every time someone's status needed changing. xD; After awhile, people would be like "Oh yeah.. it's been a week, and no one's updated it. Whoops."

Forever
November 5th, 2010, 06:08 PM
...apparently I missed the suggestion last night. XD I agree with the thread idea, but maybe include links of those the users could contact instead, or that might be too much work, idk.

~RNC~
November 5th, 2010, 06:12 PM
Why would you need a link to who to contact?? There will always be a mod of every section, unless every one left at once!!

Forever
November 5th, 2010, 06:17 PM
If the staff member of a section with only them as a mod goes on DLOA, people won't be sure who to contact. As a whole, at least two or so of us have a general idea of how certain sections are run.

Captain Hobo.
November 5th, 2010, 07:11 PM
I like the announcement thing. Because I would like to know what happened.

Zorua
November 5th, 2010, 07:11 PM
If the staff member of a section with only them as a mod goes on DLOA, people won't be sure who to contact. As a whole, at least two or so of us have a general idea of how certain sections are run.

Wouldn't the h-staff generally be in place of that certain mod who's on DLoA?

Ooka
November 5th, 2010, 07:36 PM
Glad this idea finally has the possibility of seeing realization. One thing though, ex-staff always get pestered with the "Why" question, so possibly a polite suggestion should be made as well about not filling their VMs up with it (As obviously if it were in the announcements forum a lot more users would end up doing it).

Forever
November 5th, 2010, 07:58 PM
Wouldn't the h-staff generally be in place of that certain mod who's on DLoA?

Uhhh. Okay, pretend a emulation mod is DLOAing and a user needs help with the section. If they went to someone like Drew, she wouldn't know what to do (I think?), but like how Gav had in his blog, as to who to contact if you needed help in that section, knowing that the upper staff are generally the latter option.

(Making this optional, of course, but in most cases it could help).

Zorua
November 5th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Uhhh. Okay, pretend a emulation mod is DLOAing and a user needs help with the section. If they went to someone like Drew, she wouldn't know what to do (I think?), but like how Gav had in his blog, as to who to contact if you needed help in that section, knowing that the upper staff are generally the latter option.

(Making this optional, of course, but in most cases it could help).

Which is why people like Jake are there to watch Emulation if anyone had any questions about it or anything. D:

Forever
November 5th, 2010, 08:55 PM
...yes, but what I meant is like in Gav's blog where he did say specific people to go to for issues. I just think it might make it easier for the members if they know that there's someone that knows their exact problems, rather than someone who can only help a bit. :x (I was just using that as an example...)

As I said, just an optional listing of names in a title tag or something which the users can go to for their problems (and of course, only for those who are DLOAing, rather than demoted/quit/etc - while those who don't have any alternate contacts don't have to have anything listed, so it's just suggested they go to upper staff). Just an idea, nevermind~

Zorua
November 5th, 2010, 09:19 PM
...yes, but what I meant is like in Gav's blog where he did say specific people to go to for issues. I just think it might make it easier for the members if they know that there's someone that knows their exact problems, rather than someone who can only help a bit. :x (I was just using that as an example...)

As I said, just an optional listing of names in a title tag or something which the users can go to for their problems (and of course, only for those who are DLOAing, rather than demoted/quit/etc - while those who don't have any alternate contacts don't have to have anything listed, so it's just suggested they go to upper staff). Just an idea, nevermind~

   Arctic Pichu     says (1:07 AM):
*so basically I was gonna say that I understood what you were trying to say(at least, I hope so) and I think you wanted to say that there should be something like what Gavin has in his blog with the list of section and the people to go to for those sections.


I also want to add that I have a similar post like this and it's in NU/W somewhere, though if you wish, there should be a sticky or something somewhere that says where to go to for which section for more noticeable purposes, though the number of people who would actually read it is questionable.

Captain Fabio
November 6th, 2010, 04:56 AM
Personally, I am not bothered who comes and goes, as long as they don't get mad on power.

But from a community perspective, I think an announcement would suffice. It is a little confusing to see one person a super mod, then the next, nothing.

Cassino
November 6th, 2010, 05:00 AM
Or staff could just put it in their blog.
Blogs just aren't a very 'obvious' feature to the average forum user:
it would just be nice to have a greater sense of what's going on without the need for digging through the blogs [...] of individuals
One could use blogs, it makes sense after all, but I at least come to this place with a mind for posting and very little else, so finding information in the places one posts (eg. sticky threads, CQ&F section; forum announcements) would be considerably more intuitive.

Bay Alexison
November 6th, 2010, 08:50 AM
Blogs just aren't a very 'obvious' feature to the average forum user:

One could use blogs, it makes sense after all, but I at least come to this place with a mind for posting and very little else, so finding information in the places one posts (eg. sticky threads, CQ&F section; forum announcements) would be considerably more intuitive.
Yeah, agree with you on that. I actually don't keep up with blogs like I use to, so a thread of sorts would be much better.

Guy
November 6th, 2010, 08:55 AM
Just letting you know, but the idea has been brought up in the HQ for voting and discussion.

As for linking who to go if there is currently no mod in the area, then a member is entitled to go to a higher up. For instance, if a member asking a question about ROM Hacking when up to Drew, and Drew didn't know, then she could easily point them to Hiroshi. We each know our specialty areas, so I don't think links are exactly necessary, but it would be helpful.

Team Fail
November 6th, 2010, 09:08 AM
But from a community perspective, I think an announcement would suffice. It is a little confusing to see one person a super mod, then the next, nothing.

Yes, I agree. Especially, this user (http://www.pokecommunity.com/member.php?u=86968).

Platinum Lucario
November 7th, 2010, 06:23 PM
This idea does actually remind me of what is used on Serebii's Pokémon Place Forums, which I'd say that it would be a great idea, if it was to be used... I wouldn't recommend stating the reason why the person is demoted or even on a DLOA, because those are to be kept between the staff and the user that was demoted or is on a DLOA. So if it was to be used... it should be stated to be something like what Nick said:
"<username> is on a DLoA until <date>."
"<username> is no longer on the staff."


Wouldn't it just be great to be notified rather than not know what new staff are moderating the forums? Just as long as it's not stating the reason... I'm sure things will go fine. If we did have something like that... it would just feel as if we're going in the same direction as SPPF. Because I know the Username Changes were removed from PC, and the username changes were removed from SPPF much earlier than PC. However... the forums do have different reasons for the removal of Name Changes. SPPF had their Username Change Thread removed because of the staff being tired of changing usernames and that it made SPPF lag more. But as for PC had their Username Change Thread removed due to the fact that it caused Database Errors. But there is one thing I hope never happens: removing the ability to use Custom Avatars. But yeah... like I said... it would be great to have a thread where it lists the staff changes, as long as it doesn't state the reason why.

Cassino
November 9th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Just letting you know, but the idea has been brought up in the HQ for voting and discussion.
It's nice to see one's ideas go somewhere... Please do say if it passes or not.

Guy
November 10th, 2010, 12:26 PM
Well, it has been discussed, and a majority of the higher staff agreed that something like this is unnecessary. If one wishes to know if and why a member is still on staff or not, they can do so by VMing or PMing that person. They are then free to tell you why they may not be on staff anymore and if they are coming back. Otherwise, business like this is left for the higher staff to be concerned with.

It was a good idea, but it just wasn't favored. :\

Platinum Lucario
November 10th, 2010, 06:36 PM
Well, it has been discussed, and a majority of the higher staff agreed that something like this is unnecessary. If one wishes to know if and why a member is still on staff or not, they can do so by VMing or PMing that person. They are then free to tell you why they may not be on staff anymore and if they are coming back. Otherwise, business like this is left for the higher staff to be concerned with.

It was a good idea, but it just wasn't favored. :\

I see, well in that case... I understand why. Did they even disagree to the fact of having the idea of notifying in Announcements of staff changes but not stating the reason why and all that? Because if an idea like that was implemented... maybe have it more like what Nick said about it. However... I would understand fully why they would disagree to stating the reason of demotion/DLOA and all that.

Guy
November 10th, 2010, 06:44 PM
I see, well in that case... I understand why. Did they even disagree to the fact of having the idea of notifying in Announcements of staff changes but not stating the reason why and all that? Because if an idea like that was implemented... maybe have it more like what Nick said about it. However... I would understand fully why they would disagree to stating the reason of demotion/DLOA and all that.
Actually, that's the way I presented it with Nick's idea. So the specific details of why a person may not be on staff no longer or at the moment would not be mentioned. But then you take into perspective that it isn't very often than a member of the staff takes a DLoA, resigns, or gets removed. More so a large group at the same time. So, the thread would be at a standstill for some period of time, if not longer.