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Khengi
November 26th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Any Japanese speakers here? If there's enough, maybe we could get a chat/practice thread going on. Machine translations obviously being a no-no, as they can be spotted a mile away :P

digi-kun
November 27th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Sort of? I know a decent bit to know what's being said to me, but definitely not near enough to carry a relatively long convo, no less about anime or something along those lines. My accent is good, or at least better than most people, but at the same time, I don't think I'd be able to talk as fast as most (my talking speed isn't too good). Besides that, my base talking mode is informal, so nyeh. Was thinking of putting a basic guide up at some point, but that'll be a while, especially with finals right around the corner.

or wait? are you talking just posting here in Japanese? Cuz you can always just run your text through a translator(sorta)

Alice
November 27th, 2010, 12:25 AM
You read my mind. I actually asked about this in the J-E Discussion thread, and never got a response.

I know quite a bit more than your average weaboo, but I'm no where near actually speaking it yet.
I also have a lot of sites that I can post if you guys are looking for learning resources.

or wait? are you talking just posting here in Japanese? Cuz you can always just run your text through a translator(sorta)
I was thinking more along the lines of a thread where you can ask what words mean and phrases mean, or how you should set up a certain sentence etc.

There are times where google translate, and jisho.org combined aren't enough to figure out what I'm reading, so it would be nice if I had someone I could ask about that stuff.

Damien_lucifer
November 27th, 2010, 12:44 AM
Im much the same. Learning, have a good base knowledge and can utter cetain things.

What resources are you using?

Im using Tae Kims japanese guid to japanese grammar as my main tool, along with some other things.

Im also playing pokemon in japanese. and although im not traslating EVERY conversation i have on there, im doing some and learning from it.

Alice
November 27th, 2010, 01:00 AM
^ Yeah, I used Tae Kim's guide too. (I suppose I could just ask on that forum... but it'd be easier to ask here. lol)

I also did the same thing you're doing with pokemon, except I'm reading Lucky Star: Brilliant Star. It has the kanji with furigana, so I can learn the kanji at the same time. So, it's pretty cool.

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 01:11 AM
Yeah, I really was just thinking about a chat thread in Japanese, but a help thread would work too, as any of us proficient enough could help everyone.

Azumi
November 27th, 2010, 08:42 AM
Weeeell, I understand Japanese enough to get me off the weaboo list, but not enough to maintain a conversation without saying "I don't understand what you just said".

I agree with a help thread! I like helping people~ ^^ And it would certainly be fun since it's Japanese.

Esper
November 27th, 2010, 11:20 AM
I'd call myself a speaker of sorts. I've carried on a couple of pretty lengthy conversations before, but they were punctuated with a lot of "what's that?" because there are lots of words I don't know, and people who speak fast or not very clearly can really throw me off. Like most people I'm better at reading/writing.

I would be up for helping people with their 日本語. And if we're throwing out resources there's a dictionary site I quite like, WWWJDIC (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/%7Ejwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C), because it's pretty comprehensive and includes multiple search functions (kana, English, radicals, etc.) for words and kanji.

Corvus of the Black Night
November 27th, 2010, 11:28 AM
I don't speak Japanese. Yet.

I'll be studying it in college so that I can return to Hiroshima. because unlike most of you I actually lived there lololol

/um, wait, wouldn't that be writing? Lol you don't speak on a forum lol

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 12:37 PM
Well, let's get a Japanese help thread started. I have the perfect person to help us out (native!).

Alice
November 27th, 2010, 01:36 PM
Here are the sites I've used, in no particular order. (Maybe sticky them on the help thread when it's created.)

Dictionary:
http://jisho.org/


Best way to learn grammar:
http://guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete
It has a page on learning hiragana/katakana, but I recommend using the steps further down in my post instead. Otherwise, this is great for learning grammar, and I definitely recommend it.

Google Translate:
http://translate.google.com/#ja|en|%0A (http://translate.google.com/#ja%7Cen%7C%0A)
This isn't really the most useful thing ever. Never trust what it says 100%, but sometimes it helps to get two translations if you're trying to figure out what a word means. (One from jisho.org, and then one from google translate.)

Another Dictionary:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/%7Ejwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C)
It's just another dictionary, but it also has a page for each kanji showing how to write them. I think jisho.org is way better as a dictionary, but it lacks that extra feature.)

Memorization help:
http://smart.fm/goals/search?autodetected=japanese&keyword=&language=ja
The dictation option on this site is helpful, but otherwise, I don't really like it. Everyone else seems to though, so give it a shot. Definitely learn hiragana/katakana before trying to learn any kanji with it though.


Ultimate 1 day method of learning Hiragana and Katakana: (This is just the method I used, but it works really well. Also, this is definitely the first thing you should do, before trying to learn anything else.)


First, visit this site, and copy the first hiragana chart onto paper. (There is another chart showing how to write them.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirigana



Then, pick any song, and find the romaji lyrics for it. (Generally, you can find it, along with the song, on youtube.)



Finally, just write down the lyrics in Hiragana. (Don't worry about whether the lyrics are actually kanji/katakana, all you're trying to do is memorize the hiragana.)



You probably wont need to write out the whole song (that would take awhile) so, after you think you've gotten a decent way into it, try reading what you've written. (Hopefully you'll have used just about every character at that point.) If you can read through it without having to look at the chart, you're good to go.



Done! To reinforce what you've learned, be sure to try and read every hiragana you see on niconico, youtube, or wherever else you might see it. This is actually really important to continue doing, even if you think you already know it well enough. It will help you read faster, and ensure that you never forget. (I still do it like a year later, and I can read pretty fast now.)



Finally, repeat all of these steps with Katakana. It will be a bit tougher to learn, but don't give up on it! (Here's the chart for katakana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana)


Good luck! I hope this helps everyone.

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 01:49 PM
Your methods are pretty good, but they'll only help so far in the long run. I would advise to begin reading online material and learn words from actual sentences. Sentences are always the best method to learning vocabulary. :P

Alice
November 27th, 2010, 03:52 PM
^ Bah... I knew I was forgetting something... I even mentioned it earlier in this thread too.

I don't really have any specific links, so I dunno if I should put it in that post, but I do read manga in Japanese, and translate as I go. It kinda ruins the story, because it takes forever, but it's definitely a good way to learn.

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 03:55 PM
This is very true. I like reading small folk tales in Japanese, hopefully the new topic I made can help people!

Alice
November 27th, 2010, 04:02 PM
Looking good. Should I repost that in the other thread, or do you wanna put it in the OP?

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 04:04 PM
The other thread is the way to go! :D

Let's give you a test, the more people we get on staff to help this project the better.

Wings Don't Cry
November 27th, 2010, 04:06 PM
I've been learning Japanese for two and half years at school, I know a fair amount but not enough to carry out a proper conversation. I basically know the basics that can actually help me survive in a Japanese city.

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 04:07 PM
Let's start a basic conversation to get everyone on track!

こんばんはー。みんな元気?

Hitomi☆
November 27th, 2010, 04:15 PM
私は元気~~。今日、朝、ゆきがふった。だからすごくさむい~~~。

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 04:19 PM
待て待て雪なのか?

マーーージでぇぇ?今日さむいけど、前ほどさむくないよね。だからサッカーやってた :D

Alice
November 27th, 2010, 04:52 PM
The other thread is the way to go!

Let's give you a test, the more people we get on staff to help this project the better.
Oh, I was just sharing all of the stuff I know about... I haven't even finished tae kim's guide or anything, so I can't really hold a conversation.

I understand those first two posts, but my brain exploded half way through the 3rd one. lol
I think I still know what it says, but I wasn't really able to break it down.

Khengi
November 27th, 2010, 04:58 PM
No problem! With any conversation, everyone's ability is factored in. Just post what you can and we can still have a decent conversation :)

Loki
December 1st, 2010, 11:36 AM
みんなさんこんにちは!^^
お久しぶりですが、私も元気です! Khengiさんは? お元気ですか? 

んん、 今授業がありますけど、つまらないな授業だから、ネットをしますww

うぅ、すみません私の日本語はまだだめです、もっと勉強しなきゃ!
ロキ、がんばります~!

I have a hard time /speaking/. Not in the sense of the accent, which I'd wager is better than most since the mouth movements are similar to Mandarin, but the problem is piecing my sentences together fast enough to let the conversation flow! xDD My friend always laughs at me when I have to think over whether I should use ga or ha or wo, or if I can't think of the word I want to use.

I find that almost all online Japanese translators are absolutely worthless. They give you the strangest words when you run it through- like the most archaic, unused version of the word. Jisho.org is particularly misleading, in my opinion.

Google Translate is VERY useful however, and more than enough to get your point across. Otono and Haku, two users I know who can't even say one fluent english sentence, understand anything I put through google so long as the sentence stay's simple. GGRKS is one of the best resources I have, along with two other sites that are solely in Japanese which I don't have the links to right now. xD It's usually best to be used in conjunction with ample base Japanese knowledge however, and ggrks is best for translating single words, rather than single sentences. I give it credit for this however, because jisho.org fails even in the single word department.

Learning Japanese really begins with learning the hiragana and katakana though, if I do say so myself. It's so difficult to do anything online if you can't read and write.

Alice
December 1st, 2010, 11:46 AM
^ We definitely aren't using the same google translate. It's far worse than Jisho.org.

I've tried talking to my Japanese friends with it many times, and it doesn't work at all regardless of which way it's translating. Even if the sentences are like 3 words long.

SuperiorCat
December 1st, 2010, 11:50 AM
I know how to speak general greetings, and other generic phrases. But that's only from picking up certain words off subtitles in animes, and their opening themes.

I wouldn't know where to start at trying to read Japanese. It seems rather daunting. ;-;

revlis
December 1st, 2010, 05:32 PM
Khenji, you need more people to help staff? I would be glad to help.

Khengi
December 1st, 2010, 09:54 PM
Khenji, you need more people to help staff? I would be glad to help.

絶対役立つよ。よかったら是非手伝ってね!

っていうかロキの日本語すごくないな?超すごいよねぇ。

なー今週末、日本語ノウケン受けてくるよ。もっと頑張らなきゃ・・・最近めっちゃ怠けてるからどうしような。

ってかこれ見てよ!

1) ぜひ、先生のご意見を     と存じます。
   1 うけたまわりたい          2 おめにかかりたい
   3 もうしあげたい           4 ごらんにいれたい 2) 何かわからないことがありましたら、こちらまで     願いたいのですが。
   1 ご連絡     2 ご連絡して   3 ご連絡になって  4 ご連絡されて
3) 田中教授はもう30年も歴史を研究して     そうです。
   1 おいでになる  2 ごらんになる  3 おめしになる  4 おこしになる
4) 私の作文はいかがでしたでしょうか。先生のご感想を     ませんか。
   1 きいてください           2 おうかがいいたし
   3 おきかせください          4 おきかせいたし
5) それでは、これから駅まで迎えに     ので、よろしくお願いします。
   1 あがります   2 いたします   3 ぞんじます    4 ございます


だからナンダそれ!!


怒り!!WWWWWW

Hitomi☆
December 1st, 2010, 09:55 PM
@Loki さん

日本語超上手です~~~~~~~!!
全然まちがえてない。文法もperfect だし、very conversationalです。
すごいね。

これからもがんばってくださーい。

できることがあったら手伝います♪

Azumi
December 1st, 2010, 11:10 PM
@ロキさん
うわ、超上手! ;A; くそ、恥かしい...
きみそのテーマは『ローリンガール』ですよね?

えと、邪魔にはいた、すみません!
私は"橘あずみ"です。あずみだけもいいぞ。
私は漫画家になりたいですけど、今はただの初心者だけ...

ああ、私はやっぱり日本語はダメですね...

Khengi
December 1st, 2010, 11:38 PM
全然だめじゃないよ!

だが邪魔にはいたってわからんw 勉強足りないかね。

kohei
December 3rd, 2010, 09:18 AM
難しいと思うけど頑張ってね!
僕も英語習った時苦労したし、言語は辛いよ。

As for tools, afaik, ALC (http://www.alc.co.jp/) is the best J←→E dictionary available online.
Granted it's not that indepth, but they seem to update it quite often.

Khengi
December 3rd, 2010, 10:06 AM
頑張るよぉぉ!

っていうか ALC is awesome. Me and Hitomi use it to mine sentences from.

Loki
December 4th, 2010, 12:19 PM
@Hitomiさん
うわぁぁ、有難うございます! そう言って私は本とに幸せでした!
でも、実は私の文法はすごく悪いです... 難しいと思う!

重ねてお礼申し上げます!

@Tachibana Azumiさん
難しいよね... はい、「ローリンガール」です! その歌や大好きです、wowakaPはすばらしい! VOCALOIDの音楽や好きですか? 
って、あなたの日本語も上手です!

I use ALC as well- that was the Japanese website I had in mind when I mentioned it earlier in my first post. xD

Azumi
December 5th, 2010, 03:11 PM
@ Loki
え...上手なんかじゃないよ! ;A;
VOCALOIDの音楽は大好き!
特にDECO*27の歌。(たとえば愛言葉とか、弱虫モンブランとか、モザイクロールとか)

ALC? What is the link for it? C:

Loki
December 8th, 2010, 09:44 AM
@Tachibanaさん
koheiさんのポストでリンクがあります!
DECO*27の動画はすごいでうね! もちろん、歌もすごいです!
私も、弱虫モンブランやモザイクロールや好き!
でも、私なら、VOCALOIDよりも、UTAUガ好き。^^;

chaos11011
December 11th, 2010, 06:25 AM
I only know how to read Katakana. I feel so left out. D:

I know some other things like Ki = Tree Ko = Child Ryu = Dragon Neko = Cat Hi = Fire Mori = Forest ect. But that's it.

Learning Hirigana soon though :D