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Livewire
February 4th, 2011, 11:24 PM
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/244/b/6/team_plasma_wallpaper_640_480_by_spaceemotion-d2xrpwd.png

Team Plasma's Scheme?

What are your opinions regarding team Plasma's plot, specifically (Geechizu and N's) plans to free Pokemon from the dominion of humans? Did they have good intentions, by freeing the Pokemon, or is their plan made with selfish reasoning? How would you rank them with previous villainous teams?

Discuss.

MrsNorrington
February 4th, 2011, 11:27 PM
Team Plasma and N have good intentions. Especially N, he's compassionate and closely bonded and befriended to all Pokemon. He cares and loves them deeply and that is his motivation.

Geechisu however does not have good intentions, he is evil and corrupt.

PlatinumDude
February 5th, 2011, 02:38 AM
It's mostly selfish because not all people have bad intentions with Pokemon, like Geechisu. I like N's beliefs, but he's taking those beliefs to the extreme.

Livewire
February 5th, 2011, 08:30 PM
It's mostly selfish because not all people have bad intentions with Pokemon, like Geechisu. I like N's beliefs, but he's taking those beliefs to the extreme.

I agree. Any extreme, good or evil, is almost never a good thing. Not to mention N seems to miss the point that Pokemon and people live in a symbiotic relationship, with each replying on the other in harmony.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 5th, 2011, 08:33 PM
I like the team but I don't like the Leaders Dad...though he does make a good secret villian...

Hoenn
February 6th, 2011, 03:39 PM
I love Team Plasma and they play an awesome role in Pokémon Black & White!

GlitchCity
February 6th, 2011, 05:08 PM
I was a little confuzzled about their plans at first. But its something that I would never guess that Game Freak would put into a game. It is a two sided scheme. They think they're doing good, but they're not. This actually sounds familiar, Team Aqua and Magma anyone?

Erufuun
February 6th, 2011, 05:12 PM
As long as N wants it, it is okay with me~ <333
Unfortunately, the game can't progress until I beat him. ;-;

I actually find them to be a lot less bad than the other bad guys. Their goals. For the whole entire Pokemon race, rather than for the improvement of an individual. (Though Geechisu ruins that) But none-the-less, they are still "bad" guys with somewhat evil intentions, and must be stopped... Pokemon wouldn't be the same Pokemon without us cramming them in tiny PokeBalls! D:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 6th, 2011, 06:10 PM
I was a little confuzzled about their plans at first. But its something that I would never guess that Game Freak would put into a game. It is a two sided scheme. They think they're doing good, but they're not. This actually sounds familiar, Team Aqua and Magma anyone?
Yeah it is like Team M and A from RSE, as in they are all trying to do good.
Only difference is that the leader is being manipulated by his father who has the opposite goals.

solarowl
February 6th, 2011, 07:02 PM
I believe N had his good intentions. But his mind got clouded by Geechisu, and then N went all out of his way to make his plan succeed. I would just say he misunderstood the situation. Geechisu is definitely to blame though. Either way, both of their actions reflected badly on them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 6th, 2011, 08:17 PM
I wish they would clear up their plan...I mean what would the legendaries have done to accomplish N's and his father's goals...unless they were planning on treating people to give up their pokemon throughout the world...with the "original" dragon...

super onii chan
February 6th, 2011, 09:12 PM
They steal Pokemon, end of discussion.

Forever
February 6th, 2011, 11:34 PM
They steal Pokemon, end of discussion.

That's not directly answering whether you thought of their scheme, though. :(

I don't entirely know the whole storyline, so I can't really judge, but from what I do know, I think the idea of freeing Pokemon is nice but, would be better if they just y'know found out what the Pokemon actually wanted and whether they felt like humans were controlling them, but of course, it's Pokemon so it has to be made complicated. So yeah.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 6th, 2011, 11:44 PM
The end of the story is just… wow. I love the depth they put into Team Plasma. I especially like how things were building up during the game. The plot reveal at the end was rather stereotypical, though.

Unlike other teams, their motives were quite interesting, and they really did get in our way in the end, unlike the other games.

Zackraa
February 6th, 2011, 11:45 PM
http://i.imgur.com/xYLXSs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/c7wwV.jpg)

this image pretty much explains everything in my opinion

Livewire
February 7th, 2011, 05:45 PM
The end of the story is just… wow. I love the depth they put into Team Plasma. I especially like how things were building up during the game. The plot reveal at the end was rather stereotypical, though.

Unlike other teams, their motives were quite interesting, and they really did get in our way in the end, unlike the other games.

They actually did seem like a more cohesive and organized threat than either team Rocket or Team Galactic, as in they make things very hard for our protagonists for awhile there.

I actually like them a lot more than the previous few teams, tbh.

Esper
February 8th, 2011, 08:25 AM
Their goals were pretty realistic (for a pokemon game) and I liked that you could sympathize with them at least a little.

It subtly addresses one of those issues you sometimes read about, i.e., that pokemon is just cartoon cockfighting, and even though the overall response in the games is "pokemon want to be our friends and battle for us," like it always is, at least you get to see the games addressing some of their critics and finding a way not to completely villainize their point.

Echidna
February 9th, 2011, 07:25 AM
i would say obtain power and use it to free pokemon with force...........best way posible if no one understands your purposes....

Snowflakes
February 9th, 2011, 08:27 AM
Good intentions (for the most part; not sure if Geechisu would be included in the "Characters with Good Intentions Club") but not so good actions. Really, I can't decide whether or not I like Team Plasma. At some points, I do feel genuine pity for them. This is the most well-thought out team in a while...some could argue ever. This team is very similar to Team Magma and Team Aqua. That's not a bad thing; Team Magma/Aqua were my favorite teams of all. :> The ending of RSE...I felt so bad for the respective leaders...

Anyway...

I don't necessarily approve of Team Plasma, but I'm not entirely against them either. They're kinda like PETA...I'm not for or against PETA in kinda the same way I'm not for or against Team Plasma. Team Plasma is the PETA of the Pokemon world, wouldn't you agree? ;P But yeah. The situation with them isn't black and white; you can't really call them "evil" but you also can't really call them "good".

Zhinc
February 9th, 2011, 09:48 AM
http://i.imgur.com/xYLXSs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/c7wwV.jpg)

this image pretty much explains everything in my opinion
BAHAHAHAHA, I love Maxie and Archie's reactions to each other. Made my day. (:

But anyway, I like that Team Plasma is a little different from the others. It's weird, yeah, but I like it. Plus, anything is better than Team Galactic; Cyrus gives me the creeps. ):

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 9th, 2011, 03:38 PM
N and Cyrus actually aren't all that different both were loners but N was raised by Pokemon and Cyrus was raised...with robots...maybe it's what they were raised with that lead to different plans...
So Yeah N and Cyrus are two parts of the same coin...

theowlmanlives
February 9th, 2011, 03:49 PM
I have 2 things to say
1. Not all people have bad intentions for their pokemon
and
2. The costumes of the antagonists just keep getting funnier looking.
Why do the antagonists always have funny looking costumes? couldn't they wear something normal? A jacket with a logo is enough....

Livewire
February 13th, 2011, 08:06 PM
I have 2 things to say
1. Not all people have bad intentions for their pokemon
and
2. The costumes of the antagonists just keep getting funnier looking.
Why do the antagonists always have funny looking costumes? couldn't they wear something normal? A jacket with a logo is enough....

But, not all people have good intentions for their Pokemon either. There has to be a meeting in middle somewhere of ideologies.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 13th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Yup the middle of the two ideologies is called Grey in philosophical terms... not Black and White like N makes it seem...

Binarynerds
February 14th, 2011, 05:33 AM
They have a better intentions than the previous antagonists. Although I haven't played the game for that long so I am not entirely sure of the plot.

Derezzed
February 14th, 2011, 05:46 AM
I haven't played the game yet so I'm not fully aware of the plot for Team Plasma, but I love the idea of crazy Pokemon activists Peta style.

Livewire
February 16th, 2011, 09:34 PM
I haven't played the game yet so I'm not fully aware of the plot for Team Plasma, but I love the idea of crazy Pokemon activists Peta style.

Which is actually pretty spot on when you make the comparison. XD

But, I don't think PETA has a crazy, shadowy overlord figure bent on evil like Geechisu. :/

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 16th, 2011, 09:37 PM
Lol the real life example to Geechisu is more like that of an Anti gun activists who want everyone to lose their guns so he/she will be the only one's with a gun...

Pokemon Trainer Touko
February 17th, 2011, 01:43 AM
Geechisu's awful~ He uses his own son as a tool just to accomplish his own selfish hopes of becoming the only person in Isshu with Pokemon~ Poor N~ Being kept in a little room with abused Pokemon... No wonder he's sooo pale~!

Livewire
February 21st, 2011, 05:42 PM
Geechisu's awful~ He uses his own son as a tool just to accomplish his own selfish hopes of becoming the only person in Isshu with Pokemon~ Poor N~ Being kept in a little room with abused Pokemon... No wonder he's sooo pale~!

I think with Geechisu out of the picture, Team Plasma and N may have actually been a somewhat good organization. :0 If they weren't as extreme, that is.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 21st, 2011, 06:28 PM
Without him though their would have been no Team Plasma as he's the one who made N view the world as he did...

metalflygon08
February 21st, 2011, 09:41 PM
For the record, they wanted the Dragon, to be a failsafe, incase people wouldn't willingly release their pokemon. The dragon was a threat, with TP'i intention to level Unova if the peeps failed to cooperate.

Chadlington
February 21st, 2011, 10:00 PM
I agree, I really like this antagonist. Its a nice change. They're good but they're evil. Great story line. I haven't heard the whole story or played the game yet, so I will have to come up with my own opinions of 'N' when the time comes. And the outfits are ridiculous. Bring back Team Rocket I say. The Original and still the best!

solarowl
February 21st, 2011, 10:22 PM
The plot was great, but they should've added more onto the Dark Trinity. They were pretty cool ninjas. I believe that if he wasn't corrupted by his father, N could've made Team Plasma very successful. But, of course, without his dad, N would've made Team Plasma a good team to help people and Pokemon. After the battle with Geechisu and the truth is revealed, N seemed really dazed, and confused. I can imagine, in Gen VI, N might travel there, and when you talk to him, he says something about being on a quest to learn the truth. The truth about what? The truth about the world.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 21st, 2011, 10:28 PM
I agree, I really like this antagonist. Its a nice change. They're good but they're evil. Great story line. I haven't heard the whole story or played the game yet, so I will have to come up with my own opinions of 'N' when the time comes. And the outfits are ridiculous. Bring back Team Rocket I say. The Original and still the best!
Yeah they are weird...I wish they were cooler knight costumes at least...
I personally prefer Team Aqua's outfits compared to Team rocket which ran around in Pajamas...

インフェルノの津波
February 22nd, 2011, 12:24 AM
Well I find their concept pretty damn awesome, I mean they are technically Knights of the Covenant, from what I think. I mean, Grunts = Knights, Priests well you know, N = King, and Ghetsis = Prime Minister or the Pope or whatever. I mean, think about it. The legendaries are dragons, so what do they do? Control the dragon. Also, the reason grunts don't know so much is because they're knights; they're only meant to serve.

But yeah their plan is pretty intelligent, Ghetsis is even smarter than Cyrus. Eliminate Pokemon Trainers, and be the only one left. Ghetsis truly is a genius.

Chadlington
February 22nd, 2011, 12:37 AM
But yeah their plan is pretty intelligent, Ghetsis is even smarter than Cyrus. Eliminate Pokemon Trainers, and be the only one left. Ghetsis truly is a genius.

A genius. Or a lunitic? Actually I'm pretty sure they go hand in hand. So are the gunts actually called knights? Coz thats cool....its a little different.

They should wear amour and have broad swords or something. OMG they should totally make like a medieval Pokemon game!!

Lambda
February 22nd, 2011, 04:20 PM
Team Plasma looks like one of the best teams in pokemon. It may be that N's intetions were not evil but extreme. However the rest of his team could have its evil like Geechisu, The Dark Trinity, Most of the grunts, and the Sages.

Barn
March 2nd, 2011, 08:36 PM
In each of the past games, the bad guys were all so focused on harnessing a Legendary Pokemon's power and using it to take over the region or the entire world. In Black and White, Team Plasma believe that they are being enslaved and should be set free.

Do you like this new goal? Do you care or dislike it?

darkpokeball
March 2nd, 2011, 09:09 PM
Well, this is a spoiler, but Team Plasma actually wants to be the only trainers with Pokemon. And yes, they want the power of the legendaries, they just don't come out and say it to the world.

Forever
March 2nd, 2011, 10:46 PM
In each of the past games, the bad guys were all so focused on harnessing a Legendary Pokemon's power and using it to take over the region or the entire world. In Black and White, Team Plasma believe that they are being enslaved and should be set free.

Do you like this new goal? Do you care or dislike it?

It seems to fit in here since it's about Team Plasma's scheme anyways, so I merged it~

gregory_turner420
March 3rd, 2011, 03:17 AM
N had good intentions, but his father was a selfish person. in general the scheme was an awesome change of pace that i really enjoyed

Regeneration
March 3rd, 2011, 05:30 AM
Team Plasma's intentions were pretty stupid, I'd say. I know that they are unique, but aiming to free all Pokemon from humans and stuff like that didn't seem realistic to me. That is just not happening. The other evil teams had at least reasonable and sensible goals. lol Team Galactic

Fire-Mane59
March 4th, 2011, 03:16 PM
I havn't played the game, and i didn't read that much replies in this thread in hopes of not spoiling ma'self. (but did)
But... As soon as i heard Team Plasma's lil scheme, the thought of the ideals that had the Elite Four (In manga) shouted in my head.
But that's just comparing the game with the manga and that's just crossing the borders.

So I say. Good scheme, bound to have plot twists.

Livewire
March 4th, 2011, 05:24 PM
N had good intentions, but his father was a selfish person. in general the scheme was an awesome change of pace that i really enjoyed

I like N/Plasma much more than I did Galactic, they seemed way too evil. :x

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 4th, 2011, 07:44 PM
I like Galactic's plan as it's evil but N's is nice do it's Black and White aspects :)

Queen of Darkness
March 4th, 2011, 08:04 PM
My opinion of Team Plasma's scheme is that they are trying to do "GOOD" through evil means because they want to free pokemon.

Elite Overlord LeSabre™
March 5th, 2011, 05:35 AM
I've never liked the idea of Pokemon not being under the influence of trainers, ever since I scoffed at disgust at the idea of the Mystery Dungeon games. So needless to say, I probably see their plans as quite a bit more insane than others here.

And the hypocrisy of them enslaving and using Pokemon in order to liberate Pokemon doesn't escape me. Surely the gruints should have realized, "We're doing the exact same thing we're protesting against! What's wrong with this picture?"

Pika-power
March 6th, 2011, 05:10 PM
That's true....

Maybe the grunts/knights were planning to release their pokemon after they liberated other tranier's pokemon.

WriteThemWrong
March 6th, 2011, 05:15 PM
i love how understanding N is and how he actually treasures his pokemon even though his ultimate aim is to rid the world of their deprivation. team plasma and their scheme is definitely interesting

shengar
March 6th, 2011, 05:41 PM
In each of the past games, the bad guys were all so focused on harnessing a Legendary Pokemon's power and using it to take over the region or the entire world. In Black and White, Team Plasma believe that they are being enslaved and should be set free.

Do you like this new goal? Do you care or dislike it?
Except Team Rocket. Well, they created their own legendary, Mewtwo. but it is too strong so they go to Silph Co. to get master ball so Mewtwo can be caught.
I havn't played the game, and i didn't read that much replies in this thread in hopes of not spoiling ma'self. (but did)
But... As soon as i heard Team Plasma's lil scheme, the thought of the ideals that had the Elite Four (In manga) shouted in my head.
But that's just comparing the game with the manga and that's just crossing the borders.

So I say. Good scheme, bound to have plot twists.
not really crossing border in my opinion.
That's why i like the Manga. they are 1 step beyond the game since the mange have more room to develop the plot, and characters role.
I have 2 things to say
1. Not all people have bad intentions for their pokemon
and
2. The costumes of the antagonists just keep getting funnier looking.
Why do the antagonists always have funny looking costumes? couldn't they wear something normal? A jacket with a logo is enough....
Prime antagonist, Giovanni(both the original dan hg/ss), Archer, Archie&Maxie, and cyrus have good design. It is their grunt that awful and ridiculous.

adhdguitar
March 6th, 2011, 05:49 PM
They're well-intentioned extremists being manipulated by a maniac.

Livewire
March 6th, 2011, 07:52 PM
I've never liked the idea of Pokemon not being under the influence of trainers, ever since I scoffed at disgust at the idea of the Mystery Dungeon games. So needless to say, I probably see their plans as quite a bit more insane than others here.

And the hypocrisy of them enslaving and using Pokemon in order to liberate Pokemon doesn't escape me. Surely the gruints should have realized, "We're doing the exact same thing we're protesting against! What's wrong with this picture?"

I think all the teams have an air of hypocrisy to them, which is why all their plans end up falling apart in the end (or because of an obnoxious 10 year old)

The Noob Hacker
March 29th, 2011, 06:39 PM
In case you can't infer the meaning of the title: Do you think Team Plasma actually has a legitimate point? Did you ever find yourself agreeing with them?

So, in the generation, we have a team with a completely different goal than the rest. And in my opinion, they sort of have a pretty decent point. I mean, when you look at it their way, it would kind of suck to be a Pokemon. Sure, they don't go about the best way to attain their goals, but its not like their doing evil to accomplish evil necessarily.

But the reason that I find myself agreeing with Plasma is because I haven't seen anyone actually bring a good counter-argument in the game. In a way, it makes sense that Plasma exists. The people of Unova seem to believe the "Pokemon and people are friends" concept so much, that they simply push Plasma's ideas aside. Every NPC says that Team Plasma is wrong, because Pokemon and peole are friends, but they never go further in depth than that. They give no details to support their statements. Most prominently of these people is Cheren. He outright ignored Team Plasma completely, he didn't even have the decency to pay attention to what they were saying. He simply pushes them aside like an internet troll that just says "sorry, I'm right, your wrong." when trying to have a debate. The arrogance displayed by Cheren makes me think that it is people like Cheren is the reason Team Plasma exists, in part. Not because he abuses Pokemon, but because he dismisses the notion that Pokemon might not like battling rather selfishly, his only counter being that they are friends, even though he never backs it up.

All in all, I think GF was trying way too hard to make these guys seem like villains. From what I have seen, Game Freak, instead of giving you a list of reasons why Plasma is evil, just says "their evil, be happy with it." It just ends up making the NPCs look incredibly arrogant and Plasma look better. In the end, I never actually saw Team Plasma and felt hatred towards them, I never really looked down upon them, I actually felt sorry for the guys. They are fighting for an actual reason, a fairly good reason at that, but were sadly deluded by corrupt leaders who turn out making the team into a big bunch of hypocrites.

Anyways, I wanted to know your own feelings about how evil Plasma actually was. Do you think that they are wholly evil and were a threat to society at large? Or do you think that they were just of mislead and perhaps a bit radical animal rights activists. (In other words, PETA.)

mysticjoshgaming
March 29th, 2011, 07:23 PM
they were forcing people to release pokemon so that ghetsis could control the unova region so they are evil

Barn
March 29th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Nope, mysticjoshgaming.

** SPOILERS ***

Did you read what Ghetsis said at the end of the game? He said he was tricking everyone - including Team Plasma and N - into releasing their Pokémon so that he would be the only one with Pokémon.

rstevenson1976
March 29th, 2011, 07:30 PM
lol! there's something new, go team PETA!!!

Cryptys
March 29th, 2011, 07:31 PM
Haha, I love this thread already.

I personally thought the Team Plasma ideal was incredibly clever. Making their "goal" or agenda something that is somewhat contraversial was so brilliant! Before I ever even played B&W I thought to myself, "Wow....so Ashe sends his Pikachu in to battle a Ground type pokemon that completely counters it b/c he's too ignorant to know the different types?" "He seriously talks about how great he is when his pokemon win through guts and determination when he doesn't even know the opponent pokemon's moves until it hurts his pokemon?" How is that treating your pokemon right? What if that particular pokemon doesn't even want to fight?!

However, I am comforted by the fact that the relationship b/w pokemon and people is way more complex than simply a pokemon trainer. There are tons of pokemon owners in the anime that have never even battled and simply love taking care of pokemon and/or enjoying their companionship!

Also, I feel ok beating Team Plasma b/c you just know from the start that the entire "goal" is a cover-up for selfish, personal interests - from Ghetsis on down. How many members of Team Plasma do you beat and they say afterward how they are only backing Team Plasma for power or selfish interests? The Team Plasma "purpose" is simply a ruse but an effective one that leaves even some of the "regular joe" npc's in the game confused and questioning.

Sorry if it's too long. =D Keep fighting the good fight!

kelario26
March 29th, 2011, 07:39 PM
Grunts, simply animal rights activists.

Leaders, evil.

Pidgeotto
March 29th, 2011, 07:54 PM
Their goals (well the fake one, not Ghetsis'), never had much merit. It has been shown time and time again that unless a Pokemon is being abused, they generally love being with their trainers.

Sure there's an argument against confining them to Pokeballs, but that's about it.

PlatinumDude
March 30th, 2011, 12:45 AM
I don't agree with Team Plasma's logic because one of the grunts explicitly states that they're stealing Pokemon to separate them from humans. Another point from TP that I don't get is from a Grunt in the Cold Storage, saying that the Pokemon look like they're having fun, but they're really suffering.

Kaori
March 30th, 2011, 02:58 AM
This topic is basically going by the same discussion in another one of our threads here, so I'm going to go ahead and merge the two together.

Continue on the discussion in our Team Plasma's Scheme thread, but in the future use our search function to look for threads that may pertain to the same topic you might want to create.

Rionix
March 30th, 2011, 03:09 AM
What they're planning isn't all that bad. We can admit that many trainers are so cruel to their pokemons that they even leave them behind when it failed them. Both the Team Plasma and N have pure intentions regarding pokemons, however, the real reason behind it which Ghetsis was the mastermind, that is the thing that made them bad.

IMHO, Ghetsis and the other six sages were the really bad guys here. Not the goons and N.

Hoenn
March 30th, 2011, 03:10 AM
I don't really understand their scheme, Although it's not nice to hit Munnas :(

Sarcastic Prince
March 30th, 2011, 05:23 AM
Bah, who cares.
They are just a bunch of weird people
who ask people to free their PKMN, and yet,
they use to PKMN to fight as well.

They're just some stupid people blocking my way.
And anyone who blocks my way should be... terminated.

Dusk White
March 30th, 2011, 04:03 PM
I think team plasma plan is a bad thing. I think it's bad because trainers take good care of their pokemon if they caught them.

Team plasma sucks as villians cause all their doing is "freeing"/stealing pokemon from trainers (copying Team Rocket in a way) while Team Aqua and Magma were way better because everyone would suffer either way if they succeeded.

lamby101
March 30th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Well N believes they have good intentions, but Ghetsis is just taking him for a ride the whole time.

That pretty much sums everything up.

GreenBeece
March 30th, 2011, 11:29 PM
Team Plasma's goal is the weirdest of all villainous team. But Ghetsis's first goal was to conquer the world... Hmmmh...

But their logo looks much like ChristusMonogram...

Poliwagged
March 31st, 2011, 12:27 AM
I think that N knew his actions were extreme, as referenced by Anthea.

N was driven by the hurt Pokemon he grew up with, and even when he realized that his "ideals" might not be the right thing, he continued to do so, perhaps as to not disappoint Ghetsis (his father).
So Ghetsis really did distort his entire life.


YAY CHILD ABUSE