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Horizon
February 10th, 2011, 02:37 PM
First thread in a long time, woo.

Now, looking at the aforementioned characters, keen students of the English language will have noticed, in the English language versions of the games at least, they speak the 'native language' with a broken grammatical style. Now, as I'm sure you've already gathered, this would suggest that they are not native speakers of the native language in the regions of Kanto through to Sinnoh.

Now, this all suggests that they came from a country outside that which said regions are a part of, and as we know Unova fits that description, and because I've been told that apparently the Rocket Grubnt in question can be found at his home in Unova itself. Looker also makes an appearance, but until the English versions of B/W are released, we won't know if his grammar is proper now.

The point of this thread is, since the Rocket Grunt spoke with the same broken grammatical constructs in the original G/S/C, to answer this question: Had they planned to release a region outside the normal country, or maybe Unova even more specifically, way back in the 20th Century, or is it all a massive coincidence?

Discuss.

MrGriszell
February 10th, 2011, 02:55 PM
I dont think thats the case. I dont believe they knew the game would go onto 5 generations at the time of 2nd gen, but they did keep there options open. I remember muna was describe in the first gen, so they decided to make it now. However i think nintendo is sure there will be many more generations in the pokemon game so they could start droping out more hints to other regions.

Ronin
February 10th, 2011, 02:59 PM
I'm going to have to find the source but I'm sure I read that they had no intention of making any more Pokemon games after Gen 2. It was only the huge success of the games that led to the continuation of the games (thankfully).

So I doubt they had put much thought in Unova, though I wouldn't be surprised if they still use ideas that they came up with while making those games at the time but didn't use.

bwburke94
February 22nd, 2011, 11:50 AM
Munna is a reference to the line in Gen I, likely. As for the whole "the rocket grunt thing was planned from Gen II" theory, we all knew that was going to happen by HG/SS.

Bluerang1
February 22nd, 2011, 01:06 PM
Thank you for making this! I wanted to make this thread but I didn't know how to phrase it.

FAIL GAMEFREAK! or even TPCi!

They gave the guy broken English so he wasn't even meant to show up again unless there would be a whole region with people speaking a different language or broken English. Having him be from Unova makes no sense as they speak clear English there >!<

MrGriszell
February 22nd, 2011, 01:20 PM
Thank you for making this! I wanted to make this thread but I didn't know how to phrase it.

FAIL GAMEFREAK! or even TPCi!

They gave the guy broken English so he wasn't even meant to show up again unless there would be a whole region with people speaking a different language or broken English. Having him be from Unova makes no sense as they speak clear English there >!<

Maybe thats how americans(unova) sound to the japanese(kanto,Johto)

metalflygon08
February 22nd, 2011, 01:21 PM
Or they Speak Unovian, wich just appears as English to the players, and the Grunt was trying to speak Tojonese.

I bet Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Shinnoh all share a language (for example, let's say Japanese), and Unova uses another (let's say english). The game is texted through the eyes of the protagonist(and auto-translated just for the people playing on the DS), who should be familiar with the land's language. The Grunt, speaking English, spoke bad Japanese. (Remember, since we are the player that understands the (translated)language, since it's translated) but speaks normal in Unova, becuase the Unovian Main Charecter speaks the same language, but the Tojoians do not.

インフェルノの津波
February 22nd, 2011, 01:24 PM
Well you should know that B/W was started before HG/SS, so yeah. Though B/W took more time to make, just saying.

But yeah, I wish the Rocket Grunt's Engrish came back, he was awesome.

Bluerang1
February 22nd, 2011, 01:32 PM
The thing is, in the Anime Ash understands the Unovians and vice-versa.

But I guess Game =/= Anime 7____7

Lambda
February 22nd, 2011, 04:15 PM
Yay i have a lot on this. First the grunt spoke bad lets say "kantoese" we as a main character in HG/SS think that. But when we are in unova he speaks great "Unovoese". Also having the theory of TR being in 5th generation may have been back when 2nd gen was out but it definetly wont happen now. Unless everybody with japanese games are hiding it from us. But it would be awsome if TR was in Unova still. :(

Pink Typholsion
February 22nd, 2011, 04:25 PM
I dont think thats the case. I dont believe they knew the game would go onto 5 generations at the time of 2nd gen, but they did keep there options open. I remember muna was describe in the first gen, so they decided to make it now. However i think nintendo is sure there will be many more generations in the pokemon game so they could start droping out more hints to other regions.

They been work on Pokemon Game 5 Years (or even more) before anyone knows.

An example is when in R/S/E in Devons Corp. on the 2nd floor, there's a guy who talks about making a Device to see Pokemon Dreams, which now the machine is called the Dream World they've been working on that for 7 years. I'm sure they've known about 5th Gen since Crystal.

EDIT: and the guy with the Broken English might have been an immigrant, which we have a lot of in the US.

Weavile05
February 22nd, 2011, 04:52 PM
I seriously hope the bad english speaking Rocket Grunt is truly in Unova. Looker I already know, but could honestly care less.

Boarbeque
February 22nd, 2011, 05:22 PM
Or they Speak Unovian, wich just appears as English to the players, and the Grunt was trying to speak Tojonese.

I bet Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Shinnoh all share a language (for example, let's say Japanese), and Unova uses another (let's say english). The game is texted through the eyes of the protagonist(and auto-translated just for the people playing on the DS), who should be familiar with the land's language. The Grunt, speaking English, spoke bad Japanese. (Remember, since we are the player that understands the (translated)language, since it's translated) but speaks normal in Unova, becuase the Unovian Main Charecter speaks the same language, but the Tojoians do not.
I agree with your logic good sir.

dieter57
February 22nd, 2011, 05:45 PM
the rocket grunt seems more like a Russian speaking bad English.
japan (kanto, johto, etc.) is close to russia (NOT unova) i have no trouble in believing that he could be from a different nation/region other then unova.

Xander Olivieri
February 22nd, 2011, 05:54 PM
Well when a Japanese person speaks English, you get roughly the same outcome as the Foreign Rocket Grunt, while at the same time if any American goes to Japan and starts trying to pick up the dialect or if they even had some study of Japanese language but pronounces the words wrong, it would produce the same effect.

The main issue with the Rocket Grunt in the American version was that our games were translated. If it were the Japanese version the grunt would most likely have been using elementary level Japanese in a very broken fashion.

His obvious speech impediment would be cured if he DID return home as all our characters would be speaking his natural language. Watch the Sailor Moon Episode when they invite English students there and the girls who have been speaking English that entire time are suddenly speaking broken English with the students.

MrGriszell
February 22nd, 2011, 06:59 PM
They been work on Pokemon Game 5 Years (or even more) before anyone knows.

An example is when in R/S/E in Devons Corp. on the 2nd floor, there's a guy who talks about making a Device to see Pokemon Dreams, which now the machine is called the Dream World they've been working on that for 7 years. I'm sure they've known about 5th Gen since Crystal.

.

Im gonna have to disagree with. I dont thinks that was the case

SSJ4 Furanki
February 22nd, 2011, 07:00 PM
Well when a Japanese person speaks English, you get roughly the same outcome as the Foreign Rocket Grunt, while at the same time if any American goes to Japan and starts trying to pick up the dialect or if they even had some study of Japanese language but pronounces the words wrong, it would produce the same effect.

The main issue with the Rocket Grunt in the American version was that our games were translated. If it were the Japanese version the grunt would most likely have been using elementary level Japanese in a very broken fashion.

His obvious speech impediment would be cured if he DID return home as all our characters would be speaking his natural language. Watch the Sailor Moon Episode when they invite English students there and the girls who have been speaking English that entire time are suddenly speaking broken English with the students.In the Japanese SoulSilver they had that grunt speaking with half his speech being laced with Katakana put in place for English words. So, it was weird to experience that. Kinda funny I could actually understand what he was saying in the Japanese game when most of the game I was clueless with what they were saying, Katakana is easy to read.

MrGriszell
February 22nd, 2011, 07:05 PM
They been work on Pokemon Game 5 Years (or even more) before anyone knows.

An example is when in R/S/E in Devons Corp. on the 2nd floor, there's a guy who talks about making a Device to see Pokemon Dreams, which now the machine is called the Dream World they've been working on that for 7 years. I'm sure they've known about 5th Gen since Crystal.

.

Im gonna have to disagree with. I dont thinks that was the case. I could be wrong. Im just wondering when in the period of a current generation do they decide to make another.
But i will agree that at the time of r/s they pretty much started to plan for future generations, but im not sure if that was the case with gen2(other than the fact they were gonna make a 3rd gen)

darkpokeball
February 22nd, 2011, 11:04 PM
I wonder what would happen if a legendary made an appearance in Unova, not fighting or anything, just an intro where it gives it's little cry and vanishes, then six generations later, it reappears, up for capture. I'd love to see the reaction from people that recongized it.
-
Anyways, what is everyone saying about Munna being described in the first gen? What did the NPC say?
-
Have any of you ever thought that since the 'references' from teh previous generations are all coming together in this game, and the names have reverted back to where they started: colors, that this is the grand finale of pokemon games? Think about it, what if these references and the name are just signs pointing out this is the final game. Or at least, the planned final game.

MrGriszell
February 22nd, 2011, 11:53 PM
I wonder what would happen if a legendary made an appearance in Unova, not fighting or anything, just an intro where it gives it's little cry and vanishes, then six generations later, it reappears, up for capture. I'd love to see the reaction from people that recongized it.
-
Anyways, what is everyone saying about Munna being described in the first gen? What did the NPC say?
-
Have any of you ever thought that since the 'references' from teh previous generations are all coming together in this game, and the names have reverted back to where they started: colors, that this is the grand finale of pokemon games? Think about it, what if these references and the name are just signs pointing out this is the final game. Or at least, the planned final game.

After defeating a Jr. Trainer outside the Rock Tunnel, she says "The Pokémon here are so chunky! There should be a pink one with a floral pattern

0soniclordsonic0
February 23rd, 2011, 04:27 AM
I wonder what would happen if a legendary made an appearance in Unova, not fighting or anything, just an intro where it gives it's little cry and vanishes, then six generations later, it reappears, up for capture. I'd love to see the reaction from people that recongized it.
-
Anyways, what is everyone saying about Munna being described in the first gen? What did the NPC say?
-
Have any of you ever thought that since the 'references' from teh previous generations are all coming together in this game, and the names have reverted back to where they started: colors, that this is the grand finale of pokemon games? Think about it, what if these references and the name are just signs pointing out this is the final game. Or at least, the planned final game.

i guess that could be true if u overthink things.....im one of those people who over think things, and hey, maybe pokemon want to go off as a big bang, in contrast to slowly fizzling out as years go by like the 2000s

Bluerang1
February 23rd, 2011, 11:20 AM
my problem is that Ash understands Unovians clearly and vice versa. So the whole broken English grunt thing being fro Unova makes no sense. They're meant to speak the same language, unless he was tricking us. I really don't like him being in the games, he's an unnecessary addition. BW is meant to be far away and cut-off from previous regions yet we have him, Cynthia, Looker, and a Fire/Fighting starter yet again. Do not want.

Andrew McKenzie
February 23rd, 2011, 01:27 PM
Unova being purposefully based on New York sorta discredits your theory man.
If any one region definitively has English as its main language, it's Unova.

Quilava's Master
February 23rd, 2011, 01:28 PM
my problem is that Ash understands Unovians clearly and vice versa. So the whole broken English grunt thing being fro Unova makes no sense. They're meant to speak the same language, unless he was tricking us. I really don't like him being in the games, he's an unnecessary addition. BW is meant to be far away and cut-off from previous regions yet we have him, Cynthia, Looker, and a Fire/Fighting starter yet again. Do not want.

That's something done for simplicity reasons. Think about how logical it would be if Ash (in an anime primarily aimed at kids) didn't understand the people, and vice-versa. It would make the show incredibly hard to follow. To make it easier on everyone they make the language shift seamless. With Unova being "far away" makes sense as to why the Grunt sounded differently in Kanto. For example I'm on the East Coast of the US. If I were to head to Arizona everyone there would sound different to me too.Yes we might still be speaking the same language but the accents would differ. Not to mention since Kanto is based on Japan and Unova is based on NYC it only makes sense to assume the languages differ.

After defeating a Jr. Trainer outside the Rock Tunnel, she says "The Pokémon here are so chunky! There should be a pink one with a floral pattern

Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC she says "The Pokémon here in the mountains are so chunky. I wish there were pink Pokémon with a floral pattern!"
That just means someone up at GF remembered that and they made it happen. It doesn't mean that she (Munna) was planned for Gen 1. Just that they used this line of dialogue to create her.