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:3
February 12th, 2011, 10:52 AM
With no evolutions or pre-evolutions of older Pokémon do you think that everything is basically starting over? When asking myself this question the first thing I thought of was Ruby and Sapphire as they kind of had the same situation.

But the more I thought about it, I realized that Ruby and Sapphire didn't make a new Nurse Joy or a new Officer Jenny, and they also didn't make a big deal in the anime about a Pokémon from Kanto being in their region. Also, while watching the Black and White premier today I noticed they brought back the "Who's that Pokémon?" thing, which I haven't seen since the Indigo league.

Another thing I noticed was a few of the Pokémon in this generation are basically copies of Pokémon from previous generations. One example is Voltorb and Foongus who are both obviously based on Pokéballs.

So what do you think? Are Black and White a reboot to the Pokémon series?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 12th, 2011, 11:03 AM
Yes they are...graphically and story wise not much Mechanically like the 3rd version which added IV's and changed the 2nd gen mechanisms almost entirely...
I like this reboot, so far the reboot gens have been my favorite :)

RYOUKI
February 12th, 2011, 11:06 AM
Yes, I think they just copied the original Pokemon series, and changed a few things. Tabunne which functions as Chansey, Alomomola (I think that was it's name) as Luvdisc, and Foongus serving as Voltorb.

tmega1990
February 12th, 2011, 11:07 AM
I think they are. These games are different than the other games. There are new Pokemon replacing the old Pokemon that we used to see all the time.

GlitchCity
February 12th, 2011, 12:05 PM
I think they are, Ruby and Sapphire was a 75% reboot, but Black and White was a complete reboot. I like that, no connections to the previous regions until after the E4. The storyline is awesome, same goes for everything else. I guess Game Freak will not do reboots so often, otherwise people will get lost and confused. But this is a perfect time for a reboot, espically after Sinnoh. :3

Kendosis
February 12th, 2011, 12:10 PM
Judging that Ash is 10, I'll say its a reboot lol.

Horizon
February 12th, 2011, 01:12 PM
I think they wanted to go for a perfect blend between keeping the longtime fans happy while still attracting a brand new generation of audiences. Over here in the UK Nintendo and its products are heavily advertised since the massive success of the Wii, and I expect Black and White to be heavily advertised also when the release date draws near.

Sydian
February 12th, 2011, 02:56 PM
I think they're a reboot, and a damn good one. Sure, a lot of the Pokemon are blatant copies of the originals, but they still have their own flair that makes them unique. And I think this generation is one that many people have been avoiding spoilers for. Seriously, I remember everyone reading up on gen IV and such, but a lot of people are avoiding spoilers for gen V and that really contributes to that "reboot" feel because people are going into the new region and finding out stuff on their own, like with RBY.

PlatinumDude
February 12th, 2011, 03:12 PM
The general concept of B/W is to start over, like the main series, like being able to only catch Unova Pokemon prior to the National Dex, as well as having more direct counterparts to older Pokemon. So I agree that B/W is a reboot.

Fushigidane-Chan
February 12th, 2011, 03:27 PM
Is connectivity retained?

Are references to past games made?

Do old characters cameo?

Are all Pokemon and formes retained?

Black and White is not a reboot. Even Ruby and Sapphire are closer to being considered reboots.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 12th, 2011, 04:59 PM
They've stated on the record that they were aiming to change the series' perception. Whether you perceive this to be a reboot or not… well…

I believe they've successfully given it a reboot. All the original Pokémon are there, yes, but they're anything but the emphasis of the game. There's several references to past events - and what are you going to do? Pretend they didn't happen? There's a few characters from previous games and I guess that's just fanservice.

That having been said, Fushigidane-Chan, how are R/S "closer" to being reboots? The fact that more of the 251 were shelved? We still had references to the older generation, even in those games.

Fushigidane-Chan
February 12th, 2011, 05:57 PM
There's several references to past events - and what are you going to do? Pretend they didn't happen?

In the case of reboots, yes. For example... the Christopher Noland Batman movies don't take into account any of the events of the four movies before them. They don't even reference them.

That having been said, Fushigidane-Chan, how are R/S "closer" to being reboots?

Mostly the fact connectivity was cut off, and the few amount of references were just that - references. Black and White went the (unnecessary, but appreciated) extra mile and included several characters from past games, and one of them even in a rather important role (Caitlin).

In addition, while Ruby and Sapphire did feature quite a few old Pokemon, and one could argue Black and White are more like reboots due to the fact no old Pokemon appear throughout the main game - a good portion of them do indeed appear post-E4. And, as connectivity does indeed exist, it's been fully possible to acquire all the Pokemon that existed at the time from day 1 of Generation 5. This was not possible in Ruby and Sapphire, where a good portion of the older Pokemon were indeed unobtainable until Colosseum and FRLG were released, or without the assistance of cheating devices.

Edit: I guess it should also be mentioned that, while Ruby and Sapphire completely overhauled the battle system, the subsequent games merely tweaked and advanced it from then on. Black and White specifically brought forth no changes to the single-battle system itself. It only introduced triple battles.

Guy
February 12th, 2011, 06:30 PM
Black and White include probably the biggest and most daring changes that have occurred through past generations. If anything, I would consider it a reboot of the franchise and games. They've heavily implied that these games (including the anime) are a large leap and change of perception from past regions. So, even if we were to think of it as just another generation, it wouldn't change the fact that these games were made with the purpose of rebooting the franchise.

I don't mind the inclusion of various past characters, such as Caitlin though. Personally, it still shows that Pokémon hasn't forgotten its past, but is just taking the next steps in moving the concept of the games further.

Katja
February 12th, 2011, 06:41 PM
Black and White include probably the biggest and most daring changes that have occurred through past generations. If anything, I would consider it a reboot of the franchise and games. They've heavily implied that these games (including the anime) are a large leap and change of perception from past regions. So, even if we were to think of it as just another generation, it wouldn't change the fact that these games were made with the purpose of rebooting the franchise.

I don't mind the inclusion of various past characters, such as Caitlin though. Personally, it still shows that Pokémon hasn't forgotten its past, but is just taking the next steps in moving the concept of the games further.
I agree with this post a lot. I'm glad they are making the heroes older and making the story a bit more realistic/darker.

bwburke94
February 12th, 2011, 06:58 PM
Well... not a reboot IMO. Just a new region with some new Pokémon.

Forever
February 12th, 2011, 07:27 PM
I really think it is a reboot, and since so many Pokemon, and well, everything is similar to Kanto, I can see Unova appearing, like Kanto, in other generations, too. Even the anime theme song implies it's a reboot, "it's always hard when you start a journey" or something like that. And as everyone said, with the amount of differences between other games, these two are defs the start of Pokemon becoming better in the future.

Also, on another note, to do with translations and such, they made "risks", which they haven't done before in other games to this extent. Fan associations with "Black and White", "Cofagrigus" and a few other things prove this. They may not have necessarily noticed, but the fans do. XD

Khrysta
February 12th, 2011, 09:00 PM
I forgot where, but an interview said that they were basically starting over with Black and White, hence the new systems and the incredibly hard reversal function. They want a new slate to start on and are doing so with a big bang.

I'd like to make a comment on the Gen 2 and Gen 3 relation though. Them not being able to connect was not due to a reboot, but rather a new change in coding that would not allow the two previous generations to connect with the new Generation. To fix that minor error they recreated the first Generation bringing in the first of the reconstructed game duo's into existence. Fire Red and Leaf Green. The fact that Ruby and Sapphire's time line is exactly at the same time as Red and Blue also helps this fact.

I forgot where, but an interview said that they were basically starting over with Black and White, hence the new systems and the incredibly hard reversal function. They want a new slate to start on and are doing so with a big bang.

I'd like to make a comment on the Gen 2 and Gen 3 relation though. Them not being able to connect was not due to a reboot, but rather a new change in coding that would not allow the two previous generations to connect with the new Generation. To fix that minor error they recreated the first Generation bringing in the first of the reconstructed game duo's into existence. Fire Red and Leaf Green. The fact that Ruby and Sapphire's time line is exactly at the same time as Red and Blue also helps this fact.

I forgot where, but an interview said that they were basically starting over with Black and White, hence the new systems and the incredibly hard reversal function. They want a new slate to start on and are doing so with a big bang.

I'd like to make a comment on the Gen 2 and Gen 3 relation though. Them not being able to connect was not due to a reboot, but rather a new change in coding that would not allow the two previous generations to connect with the new Generation. To fix that minor error they recreated the first Generation bringing in the first of the reconstructed game duo's into existence. Fire Red and Leaf Green. The fact that Ruby and Sapphire's time line is exactly at the same time as Red and Blue also helps this fact.

Fushigidane-Chan
February 12th, 2011, 09:41 PM
I forgot where, but an interview said that they were basically starting over with Black and White, hence the new systems and the incredibly hard reversal function. They want a new slate to start on and are doing so with a big bang.

Not quite sure what you mean by "new systems" and "incredibly hard reversal function".

I'd like to make a comment on the Gen 2 and Gen 3 relation though. Them not being able to connect was not due to a reboot, but rather a new change in coding that would not allow the two previous generations to connect with the new Generation.

This is true. However, GameFreak did have the opportunity to cut off connectivity and begin anew again with Black and White; they did not. Connectivity is there and even encouraged with the Zoroark, Zorua, and Lock Capsule events, all of which require transferring certain Pokemon/items from previous games.

SinisterEternity
February 12th, 2011, 09:53 PM
Hehe, it's funny, actually.
I thought of the exact same thing when I played the Black Version.
They sure are a reboot to the previous games and all. Which is quite awesome. :D
It feels good to have a good fresh start. <3

King Gumball
February 13th, 2011, 02:47 AM
Yeah they are starting over. They did in Hoenn too iirc, with only Azurill and Wynaut relating to previous gens, so this isn't the first fresh start.

They needed a second new start as the previous gens were getting over loaded with so many evolutions/pre being added on. They just needed some more fresh untouched pokemon to work with, in order to branch out future pokemon generations.

PhantasyFight
February 13th, 2011, 02:51 AM
Yes Black and White are definitively reboots.

Tropical Sunlight
February 13th, 2011, 03:57 AM
Of course they are. Older hero/heroine, no Pokemon from previous regions until you beat the E4, the first Gym isn't Rock XD and things like that.
I thought that it was officially confirmed that they're reboots.

Hoenn
February 13th, 2011, 05:16 AM
Yes, I remember them saying it's a whole new step, or something along those lines in the ONM

Superjub
February 13th, 2011, 05:20 AM
Of course they are. Older hero/heroine, no Pokemon from previous regions until you beat the E4, the first Gym isn't Rock XD and things like that.
I thought that it was officially confirmed that they're reboots.

Sure, there aren't any Pokemon from previous regions, but there are characters. Caitlin, Looker and Cynthia to be exact. While i like all of these characters, it's kinda disappointing they're in it, simple because if this generation is meant to be a "reboot", and they've gone through all the effort to not include old Pokemon before compelting the game, then why include old characters? :\

Kendosis
February 13th, 2011, 05:23 AM
It seems like it's going to be a good series though :)

mzmingle
February 13th, 2011, 09:17 AM
I think so too. though they do have some other characters (Caitlin, Cynthia, Looker, TR Grunt)
So yeah :P

The Red Chain
February 15th, 2011, 08:35 AM
The intention was for them to be a reboot, and in my opinion, they did a great job of that! No past gen Pokemon in sight, all the regional pests have been fully paralleled ; even down to looking crazy similar [Mamanbou/Alomomola to Luvdisc]. Some of them are even outdoing their look-alike partners in stats and moves.

The way you start out on Route 1, no connections to the past gens until way later, how they changed so many systems [like how TMs are reusable now/seasons/ect], and how Unova is so far from the other regions like they don't exist yet ; all of it leads up to a nice reboot of the Pokemon series. Even the anime has followed this lead now! Really, when was the last time you saw Ash turning his hat before throwing a Pokeball to catch something?

All and all, I am completely satisfied. It cannot be easy to replicate the beginning of a popular series so closely, so for that, they get two internets!

Kaori
February 15th, 2011, 02:48 PM
I think so too. though they do have some other characters (Caitlin, Cynthia, Looker, TR Grunt)
So yeah :P

Yeah, I think it's fine that there are still some connections between characters and whatnot from other regions. I like it this way actually. :)

I definitely consider Black and White a reboot though. It gives us a chance to run into the new Pokémon without finding a Machop or a Zubat along the way. Seeing as they've brought back "Who's that Pokémon?" in the anime, Nintendo is obviously taking us down a new road for this generation, so we can get to know the Pokémon and everything. If anything, I'm liking the whole reboot for the way things are going anyway.

fenyx4
February 21st, 2011, 02:58 PM
Sure, there aren't any Pokemon from previous regions, but there are characters. Caitlin, Looker and Cynthia to be exact. While i like all of these characters, it's kinda disappointing they're in it, simple because if this generation is meant to be a "reboot", and they've gone through all the effort to not include old Pokemon before compelting the game, then why include old characters? :\

Exactly. It's even worse that all 3 characters are from the last generation (from the newest non-remake games, to boot), so it makes it seem like Generation 5 does seem like just another Generation. In Ruby/Sapphire, the only "returning" characters were the Kanto and Johto Pokemon. However, if you had no prior knowledge of the original 151 from RBY, GSC, or the anime, Pokemon like Tentacool and Geodude could pass for Hoenn-native Pokemon, and you'd never know they were from another Gen. Furthermore, what kind of region has an influx of ~eighty Pokemon just because you beat a certain Trainer (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Champion)? The only ones RS introduced post-game were 3-4 legendaries (Rayquaza, Lati@s, Jirachi?, and Deoxys).
Requiring whole oth (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_FireRed_and_LeafGreen_Versions)er games (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Emerald_Version) to get more Pokemon seems more like a reboot, IMO.

The connectivity thing is another issue. Generation 3 was supposed to be "just another Gen" from the looks of it, but the GSC incompatibility issue essentially made it a restart. Generation 5 didn't have compatibility issues, and yet it was marketed as a rebirth. Due to connectivity maintained with the past Gen, Generation 5 becomes "just another Gen" and a "reboot" at the same time, but fails a bit in both aspects. If BW is going to be a reboot, cut off most, if not all, ties with past Generations. Save cameos for either RS remakes or "Gray Version". Aside from Kanto/Johto Pokemon and game traditions/mechanics, very minor mentions to the past two regions are made in RS (Slateport Oceanic Museum, guy next to Lilycove Pokemon center, and that mention that says Brendan/May is from Johto).

The BW anime is doing a great job of rebooting (aside from emulating Pokemon: Road to the Indigo League; it's very reminiscent of Pokemon: Advanced, actually, which could have served as a reboot as well); it's the games I have an Isshu with. They retain features and mechanics from past Generations (even building upon/enhancing them at times) stuff from past Generations, while screwing with so much other stuff from past Gens that at times it almost seems like it could alienate a player familiar with the past 4 Gens. The main things that help BW seem reboot-ish are the route reset, Unova PokeDex restriction until postgame, the game names, and...that's pretty much it. Everything else (especially the maintained connectivity) just makes BW feel like "just another Gen". If there was ever a time for a reboot, it was Generation 3. Every time I see BW tamper with something that didn't need tinkering with, it feels less and less like a reboot...

bwburke94
February 23rd, 2011, 09:30 AM
First of all, Jirachi was not catchable in R/S. Second, the anime has nothing to do with whether the games are a reboot.

I see them as a reboot, if only because the "new mons only" thing reminds me of Red and Blue. Back when R/B were first out, there were no old Pokémon unless you imported R/G/B from Japan, in which case there were no new ones. B/W are similar, though I believe you can trade for old mons after 1 badge or use an Action Replay if you really want a Pikachu.

fenyx4
February 23rd, 2011, 09:54 AM
First of all, Jirachi was not catchable in R/S. Second, the anime has nothing to do with whether the games are a reboot.

I know Jirachi isn't available in the wild; you need the Colosseum bonus disc to transfer it to your game. I'm unsure whether the game limits such a transfer until after you beat the Elite 4 and Champion/gain the National Dex, or whether it can be done anytime. Either way, it was/is still classified as a Hoenn Pokemon in RSE...

As for the anime, it doesn't necessarily determine the games' "reboot" status. However, since they kind of go hand in hand with each other and the new anime is trying to emulate the old one, the anime helps to maintains the sense of everything being rebooted for the Pokemon franchise.

Gilgαmesh
February 23rd, 2011, 08:08 PM
I feel that B/W are a complete reboot and I'd also like to say that they're completely separated from previous generations. To me, there are so many things that distinct B/W from it's predecessors(and so many original features at that), that I honesty would be hard pressed to say that the games aren't "starting over" in a sense.

Besides, I personally like starting a whole fresh, new, experience.

Haowakeorden
February 23rd, 2011, 11:21 PM
I'd say Generation V is a reboot, but definitely not in the same way that Generation III was.

To me the purpose of a reboot of a franchise is to draw in people who either have never experienced it, or people who are coming back after a long time. Either way, a reboot attempts to offer a "fresh start", something that I think is one of the main ideas Generation V seems to be capitalizing on.