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Impo
October 19th, 2011, 10:54 PM
I hate trying to predict (though it worked against you, Nica ;D ).

That's why I love the RU/NU tiers. Pokemon people use are rather limited, so I usually know what moves and Pokemon my team are up against

Vrai
October 20th, 2011, 04:11 PM
It'd probably be easier for me if I did turn off wifi, since without wifi, Deoxys-S should be able to cover the most common leads without me overpredicting in regards to who the opponent will start off with, but yeah I'll try the safest and see if people don't expect that :x

That is amazing and going to be so useful! How'd you find it?

Well, you can play around with that kind of stuff too. You don't have to guess what they'll start with; just pick the lead that combats most of their team the best. :)

I found it by browsing through Smogon. Full of resources, that place is.

I hate trying to predict (though it worked against you, Nica ;D ).

That's why I love the RU/NU tiers. Pokemon people use are rather limited, so I usually know what moves and Pokemon my team are up against

NU is actually the most unpredictable metagame at the moment, imo. It hasn't developed anything at all so people are constantly finding new powerful threats. That being said, it's currently my favorite metagame because it's loads of fun. I encourage everyone to try it!

Exile
October 21st, 2011, 07:37 PM
NU is pretty fun, Vrai and I had a laddering day and got to #2 and #5 respectively, then we both tilted and he kept trying while I went to work on an OU team. Honestly, the lower tiers, barr UU which looks absolutely awful right now, will be quite fun once Sableye is banned.

Cycle
October 27th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Honestly, UU is terrible right now. Sand is everywhere, even I succumbed; it's that easy to use. A team of Hippowdon/Stoutland/Alakazam/Roserade/Filler/Filler wins you so many games. I haven't lost a single game with that team, as of now actually.

Vrai
October 27th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Honestly, UU is terrible right now. Sand is everywhere, even I succumbed; it's that easy to use. A team of Hippowdon/Stoutland/Alakazam/Roserade/Filler/Filler wins you so many games. I haven't lost a single game with that team, as of now actually.

I haven't tried it yet, but I've been planning on taking a shot at UU/RU. Why exactly is it so unbeatable? :(

Cycle
October 27th, 2011, 06:50 PM
I haven't tried it yet, but I've been planning on taking a shot at UU/RU. Why exactly is it so unbeatable? :(

If you even come in to revenge kill a weakened poke on, Stoutland will come right in and take you out. Alakazam is singlehandedly the strongest pokemon in the tier. Magic guard allows it to perform amazingly in the sand, and nothing at all can really switch in. Roserade counters bulky waters, which normally can get in the way of Stoutland. Hippowdon is self explanatory, bulky and sets up sand. Golurk is an amazing sub puncher. It takes out bulky walls with focus punch and also hurts the likes of Slowbro with shadow punch. In the last slot I usually run rhyperior because CB off of 140 base attack HURTS. It also alleviates my problem with other sand teams.

As of now my sand team still has an undefeated record.

Ooka
October 29th, 2011, 09:42 PM
Someone please rate my team >:(

LC is my current obsession, I've been loving it for the past couple months.

Impo
November 1st, 2011, 04:15 AM
I've always loved the concept of LU, but I can't wrap my head around the moves and evs. If LU was just unevolved Pokemon lvl 100 I'd love it.

Forever
November 1st, 2011, 04:36 AM
I tried UU against Kaori once and sucked lol I just feel like I want to learn more about OU before I really do try another tier properly though I really love OU /bias

Impo
November 1st, 2011, 04:43 AM
To be honest, I want to learn more NU/RU/UU than OU.
I just wanna know how to make a good team is all xD

Forever
November 1st, 2011, 04:46 AM
Nobody says you can't make a good OU team, though! :(

Impo
November 1st, 2011, 04:50 AM
I prefer to dwell in the lower tiers. Most of the Pokemon I like are in there, and it gives me more motivation to actually try making a good team and such.

On the other hand, I really, really, really, really hate weather

Forever
November 1st, 2011, 04:53 AM
Yeah I hate weather too :x It's basically the same teams over and over w/o much variation (since weather doesn't allow you for -that- much variation), then again I'd rather face weather than something constantly u-turning/volt switching on me lol.

Impo
November 1st, 2011, 04:58 AM
OH GOD THAT'S ALL I'VE BEEN FACING.

Ooka
November 1st, 2011, 11:58 AM
Lol, well, that's really the only option this gen. Weather is the standard, or Volt Switch / U-Turn to prevent getting swept by weather. :/ It's a shame, but I dunno, if you just fall in line it becomes much more fun. xD

Vrai
November 1st, 2011, 04:18 PM
You have so many options in BW OU it's not even funny. Whatever you try can be viable. There are just so many things you can do! Yes, you have to be able to deal with weather and those U-turn teams and Baton Pass and all that. Yes, you have to deal with things. They are threats, and you don't have to join 'em to beat 'em. Be creative and find new ways to do things! That's how the best players invent new playstyles; everyone else falls into line and they are the ones who step out. You can't be a great player by acting like a mediocre one.

And on the flip side of that, yes, those teams are very good and can be played very well.

I prefer to dwell in the lower tiers. Most of the Pokemon I like are in there, and it gives me more motivation to actually try making a good team and such.

On the other hand, I really, really, really, really hate weather

...there's an auto-weather starter in literally every tier. Good luck avoiding weather. (OU: Tyranitar, Ninetales, Politoed; UU: Hippowdon, Abomasnow; RU & NU: Snover [and Hippopotas soon probably])

Impo
November 1st, 2011, 10:13 PM
You have so many options in BW OU it's not even funny. Whatever you try can be viable. There are just so many things you can do! Yes, you have to be able to deal with weather and those U-turn teams and Baton Pass and all that. Yes, you have to deal with things. They are threats, and you don't have to join 'em to beat 'em. Be creative and find new ways to do things! That's how the best players invent new playstyles; everyone else falls into line and they are the ones who step out. You can't be a great player by acting like a mediocre one.

And on the flip side of that, yes, those teams are very good and can be played very well.



...there's an auto-weather starter in literally every tier. Good luck avoiding weather. (OU: Tyranitar, Ninetales, Politoed; UU: Hippowdon, Abomasnow; RU & NU: Snover [and Hippopotas soon probably])

I know they are many weather starters in all tiers, but I hope they'll be less frequent in the lower tiers (apart from UU)

Dark Azelf
November 2nd, 2011, 07:17 AM
Just remember who to give credit to for popularizing Volt Turning teams. After all why do you think they are spammed now ? ;D

Also, should i get back into Pokes after not playing in like 3 months ? Y/N/M ??????????? also Wifi or PO ???????????? Hmmmmmm so many decisions lol.

Forever
November 2nd, 2011, 07:31 AM
First question: y. Second question: PO. Breeding good teams for wifi takes waaay too long without RNGing (considering I was trying to breed w/o needing RNG earlier today and gave up easily - I had the right idea at least!) tbh I can't even enjoy battling without PO anymore, lol. :x

Dark Azelf
November 2nd, 2011, 07:34 AM
First question: y. Second question: PO. Breeding good teams for wifi takes waaay too long without RNGing (considering I was trying to breed w/o needing RNG earlier today and gave up easily - I had the right idea at least!) tbh I can't even enjoy battling without PO anymore, lol. :x

Eh screw RNG. 1. It makes no sense to me. 2. Im horrible at maths. :(

~POKEGEN~ ftw lol :x

Vrai
November 2nd, 2011, 09:59 AM
Eh screw RNG. 1. It makes no sense to me. 2. Im horrible at maths. :(

~POKEGEN~ ftw lol :x


I thought there was something prevented you from using generated 'mons on WiFi. ?_? Also play PO so I can battle you.

Forever
November 3rd, 2011, 04:05 AM
(In terms of leads)

September:

| 1 | Politoed | 38033 | 8.101% |
| 2 | Tyranitar | 34204 | 7.285% |
| 3 | Rotom-W | 31526 | 6.715% |
| 4 | Deoxys-S | 24562 | 5.232% |
| 5 | Ninetales | 15165 | 3.230% |

October:

| 1 | Politoed | 41692 | 9.165% |
| 2 | Deoxys-S | 30491 | 6.703% |
| 3 | Rotom-W | 28059 | 6.168% |
| 4 | Tyranitar | 25345 | 5.571% |
| 5 | Ninetales | 16226 | 3.567% |

^ My wish is for Deoxys-S to reach #1 this month. Except it's impossible because everyone loves rain and I wish for it to disappear. :( But yaaay improvement!

GO AWAY POLITOED.

Yoshikkko
November 3rd, 2011, 07:08 AM
Nuuuu I love rain! It's fun to use and I can make good use of one of my favourite Pokémon ;__; Toxicroak

GO AWAY NICA

Impo
November 3rd, 2011, 10:08 PM
I'd love for Yanma to reach top lead xD

Forever
November 4th, 2011, 11:10 PM
Totally doesn't deserve to be top! D<

Also:

The foe's Ninetales's Drought intensified the sun's rays!
Start of turn 7
The foe's Ninetales used Sunny Day!
But it failed!

lol'd.

PlatinumDude
November 5th, 2011, 01:25 AM
Totally doesn't deserve to be top! D<

Also:



lol'd.

I think I know what went on here: whoever had that Ninetales was expecting Politoed or Tyranitar to switch in to change the weather, but they mispredicted.

Forever
November 5th, 2011, 01:32 AM
Well yeah, I had Tyranitar, but the Pokemon I had kinda had no need to switch out, lol. I'm just amused by needing sunny day Ninetales ;x like unless you're playing swift swim where you need rain dance it doesn't really seem useful imo.

PlatinumDude
November 5th, 2011, 01:41 AM
Well yeah, I had Tyranitar, but the Pokemon I had kinda had no need to switch out, lol. I'm just amused by needing sunny day Ninetales ;x like unless you're playing swift swim where you need rain dance it doesn't really seem useful imo.

Here's a Ninetales set that's currently going through analysis in Smogon:
-Sunny Day
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-SolarBeam
-Toxic/Will-o-Wisp/Protect
Nature: Modest
EVs: 128 HP/252 SAtk/20 SDef/108 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Drought

The aim of this Ninetales is to try to maintain sun in the face of other weather inducers, or so I've read.

Forever
November 5th, 2011, 01:51 AM
I guess it makes sense, just I wouldn't really use it since it involves SO much prediction, and in which case I'd rather use it on something other than the inducer because if the inducer faints then yeah sort of pointless.

Impo
November 7th, 2011, 03:58 AM
I prefer the classic switch out method. My Politoed is bulky, but I don't want it taking hits if there is another inducer on the field.

Also, my team is doing very well on the PO server, I'm on 12XX points :D !

Aurafire
November 8th, 2011, 05:30 PM
I see this place is still live and kickin' ;D

What's up fellas?

Zorua
November 8th, 2011, 05:33 PM
AURA its been forever I missed you dude ;__;

but yeah not much is going on my end. Are you okay though? o:

Ooka
November 8th, 2011, 06:16 PM
Why hello there Aura. D:

(Off topic, Karp and Wolf need to post dem clans :( )

Cycle
November 10th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Did pc like, um, die?

Oh, and lc is cool

Ooka
November 10th, 2011, 10:30 PM
Omg I moved into NU and it is sooooo much more fun than OU. Like, I am loving Pokemon again. Sawk is awesome anyways, and now I have a reason to use him. Golurk is pwning, Elektross. It's just full of pwn. /gushing

Pkmn-Br33der
November 10th, 2011, 11:10 PM
I am in need of some advice, if u fight an umbreon that has this
moveset:
yawn
mean look
baton pass
wish
and gets u stuck with mean look, then yawn, finally baton passes for something to kill ur poke, what can u actually do when u meet one of these bad boys?

Dark Azelf
November 12th, 2011, 11:57 AM
I am in need of some advice, if u fight an umbreon that has this
moveset:
yawn
mean look
baton pass
wish
and gets u stuck with mean look, then yawn, finally baton passes for something to kill ur poke, what can u actually do when u meet one of these bad boys?

Mean Look and Baton Pass doesnt work this gen so my input would be "Just switch out" lol:P

If its for gen 4 get a status absorber and/or a pHazer. Fighting moves such as CC etc OHKO it regardless. Its also Taunt bait.


On a side note;
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/302.gif

Is godly, who agrees ? :)

Ooka
November 12th, 2011, 06:58 PM
Yeah, Sableye is a beast. WoW and Recover make it crazy good.

Forever
November 12th, 2011, 07:08 PM
Agreed, haven't used it but faced it, 'twas annoying to face. I honestly don't know anything about its stats so whenever I face one I send out Heatran to OHKO with Fire Blast, there's probably an easier way, but that's still the best thing I can do, since w-o-w and taunt doesn't hurt it 'cause offensive.

Ooka
November 12th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Yeah, I generally send out something that can hit it hard (Usually my Rotom-W to Hydro Pump) but with Pursuit being Neutral and it having WoW, it's hard to take out with anything else.

Tsukimaru
November 12th, 2011, 07:49 PM
guys, can i ask for a triple battle here? i´ve been lost for a while :/

Forever
November 12th, 2011, 07:50 PM
guys, can i ask for a triple battle here? i´ve been lost for a while :/

The appropriate place to ask for that would be in the quick battle thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=246217) since this thread is just for discussion :3

@Ooka: Pfft, you're risking Rotom-W getting w-o-w'd though! :( AND SEE HOW USEFUL IT IS LATER ON.

Exile
November 12th, 2011, 07:53 PM
The appropriate place to ask for that would be in the quick battle thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=246217) since this thread is just for discussion :3

@Ooka: Pfft, you're risking Rotom-W getting w-o-w'd though! :( AND SEE HOW USEFUL IT IS LATER ON.

Well Rotom-W is a special attacker, so it only minds the 12% residual from Burn. Luckily, it had Pain Split to gain all its lost health back. You're right about Sableye, though, Heatran is probably the best way to defeat it ^__^.

Forever
November 13th, 2011, 10:02 PM
I'm laddering and I face someone with a Mienshao. Expecting Fake Out/Life Orb, I go with Scizor since it won't really make a difference to me either way (and while Starmie could work - don't wanna be u-turned since it was in lead anyway). Mienshao uses High Jump Kick, manages to hit four times in a row and crits twice, killing 3 Pokemon in the mean time. Right now I'm thinking wtf. :(

Oh and fire blast (with a crit and one normal) / focus miss didn't miss at all during another battle. Why so unlucky today. ;;

Ooka
November 14th, 2011, 08:37 AM
Go to Tools > Hax > Off

Oh wait, I think I'm the only one with that option.

Forever
November 14th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Wait does that option legitimately exist for you because you're apart of their staff? Or are you just not serious at all? lol, because if there was a filter about the amount of hax you could get I'd turn it down about 50%. :x

Vrai
November 14th, 2011, 04:07 PM
Hax is undeniably a part of the game. There's no way to remove or "lessen" it without radically changing the game, and tbh there's nothing to say but "deal with it". Yeah, I know, it sucks. It sucks to lose a game when you have absolute control of a match, and sometimes it means huge losses (pfft dropped about 60 points from 1342 to 1280 something in a matter of three losses) and sometimes it means missing out on huge gains, like if you outplay someone really good. You deserve the win, but you miss out on the glory of it. So what do you do? You just scroll back down and click "Find Battle" again.

There's nothing you can do about it, really. Complain, ragequit, whatever... it's not like the other person is bending the RNG to their will. I think the key difference between a good player and a great player is that the great one has learned to minimize luck. By playing strategically, you can avoid key critical hits or status moves and seal a victory. I really can only speak from an offensive point of view because I've never played stall successfully but the best way to minimize hax is to simply know your team and have experience with it. If you know that Pokemon A can outspeed and OHKO Pokemon B but can't take two hits from it, then in order to minimize luck you should let something else die to bring it in or else you risk 'mon B getting a critical and KOing your check.

I guess the moral of the story is to not let hax get to you, especially if you start going on a losing streak because of it. Take a break for a while if you do! Luck is a part of the game (and if we wanted to play a game without luck, then that's what chess is there for).

edit: after actually reading some things other people said lol

Omg I moved into NU and it is sooooo much more fun than OU. Like, I am loving Pokemon again. Sawk is awesome anyways, and now I have a reason to use him. Golurk is pwning, Elektross. It's just full of pwn. /gushing

NU is by far my favorite metagame, lol. Except you're playing on PO. :|

Ooka
November 15th, 2011, 05:54 AM
Wait does that option legitimately exist for you because you're apart of their staff? Or are you just not serious at all? lol, because if there was a filter about the amount of hax you could get I'd turn it down about 50%. :x

Lol, no, I was joking. xD Though it would be nice, it's unfortunately not going anywhere.

Hax is undeniably a part of the game. There's no way to remove or "lessen" it without radically changing the game, and tbh there's nothing to say but "deal with it". Yeah, I know, it sucks. It sucks to lose a game when you have absolute control of a match, and sometimes it means huge losses (pfft dropped about 60 points from 1342 to 1280 something in a matter of three losses) and sometimes it means missing out on huge gains, like if you outplay someone really good. You deserve the win, but you miss out on the glory of it. So what do you do? You just scroll back down and click "Find Battle" again.

There's nothing you can do about it, really. Complain, ragequit, whatever... it's not like the other person is bending the RNG to their will. I think the key difference between a good player and a great player is that the great one has learned to minimize luck. By playing strategically, you can avoid key critical hits or status moves and seal a victory. I really can only speak from an offensive point of view because I've never played stall successfully but the best way to minimize hax is to simply know your team and have experience with it. If you know that Pokemon A can outspeed and OHKO Pokemon B but can't take two hits from it, then in order to minimize luck you should let something else die to bring it in or else you risk 'mon B getting a critical and KOing your check.

I guess the moral of the story is to not let hax get to you, especially if you start going on a losing streak because of it. Take a break for a while if you do! Luck is a part of the game (and if we wanted to play a game without luck, then that's what chess is there for).

edit: after actually reading some things other people said lol



NU is by far my favorite metagame, lol. Except you're playing on PO. :|

Just use a whole team with Battle Armor + a Ghost and Ground type. Critical Hits and Paralyze = 90% of hax imo. (Last 10% is like, flinches, which aren't annoying without the paralyze)

Dark Azelf
November 15th, 2011, 07:56 PM
Hey yo, so im gonna do my threat list again in between work, college and smashing the gym. I want it smaller and minimize wording. Wolf gave me a few ideas where i could do sets and just link to smogon for the explanations and just list counters rather than explaining them since those took up so much space it was unreal.

What i had in mind was kind of like this based on what wolf said;

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7a/Spr_5b_373.png
---Salamence---


Overview - Probably shorter than Smogon's, but still gets the point across about its impact on the metagame. (Or is an overview even necessary?)

Offensive Dragon Dance (http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/salamence#Offensive_Dragon_Dance)

Salamence @ item
nature
evs
- move
- swdefr
- swderf
- awqert

Counters:

P2, Cress, Zong, yada yada.

Then the rest of the Smogon movesets in similar way

Or just leaving counters for the end of the sets and linking to smogon again lol idk.

Basically since this is for you guys, what do you want to see done with how i format it and what do you want included ? (I dont want to make anything massively wordy again as that was part of the reason that killed me wanting to do it last time lol)

I.E; not like this lol x.x ;

---Excadrill---

Excadrill is arguable the biggest threat of all the new gen 5 Pokemon. Its typing, stats, pseudo bulk and ability to beat most of its ground counters with a Air Balloon just give it that edge over most of the metagame. Even before we get onto its fantastic ability that grants it +2 speed when the ever common Sandstorm is present, which totally nulls revenge killing that is not priority. Its a "must beat" threat for certain. Its movepool maybe shallow but it has all it needs to shine. Forgo countering or checking this powerful mole at your peril.

Excadrill @ Air Balloon / Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Return / Rapid Spin / X-Scissor

This is the standard Swords Dance Excadrill set. Get Tyranitar or Hippowdon as a partner to activate Sand Rush and Swords Dance on switches and watch bodies fly around as you smack things with that wonderful base 135 Attack. Earthquake is its massively powerful STAB move capable of OHKOing many things after a boost. Rock Slide complements it coverage wise and is useful to hit flying foes, its a shame it doesnt get Stone Edge but Rock Slides flinch rate is very useful. The last slot is up to you, Excadrill is probably the best offensive spinner in the game, not only does it wreck every ghost after a boost apart from Cofagrigus, but its also immune to all residual damage bar the 3% it takes from Stealth Rock with a Air Balloon attached and none of the Spikers threaten it apart from Ferrothorn. X-Scissor hits things like Cress and Latias and is your best option vs Bronzong, whilst Return is your most powerful option vs Gliscor, Breloom and Rotom-W.

Countering Excadrill may or may not be difficult based on how your team is layed out. Defensive Pokemon with Earthquake like Hippowdon are at the top of the list but lose to Air Balloon variants (the most common), however without Air Balloon they work well. Defensive Gliscor can still win even with Air Balloon if it has a move to pop the Air Balloon like Facade/Aerial Ace so is arguable the most solid Excadrill counter. Rotom-W is a good counter as it can take any boosted hit and use Hydro Pump for a OHKO, beware the shaky accuracy though. Azumarril, Conkeldurr, Technitop and Breloom can all check it with priority. Bronzong can take anything it throws out, Gyro Ball then Earthquake to KO. Skarmory can check it, by popping the Air Balloon and blow it away to make it vulnerable to ground attacks. Slowbro and Suicune can both take boosted Earthquakes and even X-Scissors in Slowbro's case and is a reliable counter with Regenerator and Surf/Scald. Impish Gyarados isnt KO'd by anything Air Balloon Dory throws out even after a boost, even Rock Slide (factoring Intimidate and Stealth Rock damage) and can KO with Waterfall. Changing the weather to anything not Sand makes Dory easier to deal with and Scarf Politoed and Abomasnow are great for this purpose, and both outspeed and KO. Drought Ninetales can check too but fears EQ's. Max HP and Defense Hitmontop is a good counter thanks to Intimidate and so are bulky Air Balloon users, for example Terrakion, Magnezone and Heatran. Weezing can also counter Excadrill with its fire moves or Will-O-Wisp. Whimsicott can Encore it into Swords Dance or Earthquakes and Sub Seed it to death. As far as blocking its Rapid Spin, Eviolite Dusclops and Cofagrigus are the best bet.

Overlord Drakow
November 16th, 2011, 09:38 AM
I assume you want it smaller so that it's easier on the eyes. Why not put the detailed information in spoilers for people who want to look at that stuff and keep the main facts in the layout you suggested.

Dark Azelf
November 16th, 2011, 10:08 AM
I assume you want it smaller so that it's easier on the eyes. Why not put the detailed information in spoilers for people who want to look at that stuff and keep the main facts in the layout you suggested.

Well just so its not so much hassle to write all of that. It took me an insane amount of time to go into great detail on each set of every Poke so in the end i was like "screw this :/" lol.

Overlord Drakow
November 16th, 2011, 10:17 AM
Well just so its not so much hassle to write all of that. It took me an insane amount of time to go into great detail on each set of every Poke so in the end i was like "screw this :/" lol.

Haha yeah I understand that.

"Minimum effort, maximum profit"

Ooka
November 16th, 2011, 10:59 AM
Hey guys, WeavileWinz from PO is doing something pretty cool, creating a tier called NEU (I assume it means Never Ever Used), it basically consists of DP NU Pokes, which is awesome. It's pretty fun, worth checking out, at least. There's a channel on the PO server for it and stuff. I enjoy getting to pwn with Leafeon again, and Water Spout Wailord is fun too.

Squirrel
November 16th, 2011, 11:52 AM
Hey guys, WeavileWinz from PO is doing something pretty cool, creating a tier called NEU (I assume it means Never Ever Used), it basically consists of DP NU Pokes, which is awesome. It's pretty fun, worth checking out, at least. There's a channel on the PO server for it and stuff. I enjoy getting to pwn with Leafeon again, and Water Spout Wailord is fun too.

Hmm, is there a list of Pokemon that qualify? :o

Ooka
November 16th, 2011, 12:07 PM
Muk
Relicanth
Leafeon
Luxray
Throh
Ampharos
Simisear
Raichu
Skuntank
Carracosta
Banette
Marowak
Shedinja
Walrein
Persian
Bastiodon
Purugly
Grumpig
Rampardos
Emolga
Mr. Mime
Volbeat
Zebstrika
Serperior
Regigigas
Masquerain
Zangoose
Dunsparce
Stunfisk
Garbodor
Octillery
Wailord
Shuckle
Camerupt
Bibarel
Tropius
Kingler
Articuno
Mantine
Golduck
Gothitelle
Pelipper
Gigalith
Vanilluxe
Cacturne
Mightyena
Electrode
Lopunny
Seismitoad
Swanna
Slacking
Shiftry
Mawile
Beheeyem
Raticate
Seaking
Heatmor
Parasect
Mothim
Glalie
Magcargo
Linoone
Pidgeot
Chimecho
Lunatone
Fearow
Solrock
Kecleon
Simisage
Victreebell
Granbull
Basculin
Furret
Ledian
Vespiquen
Girafarig
Whiscash
Noctowl
Beartic
Seviper
Swalot
Chatot
Swoobat
Bellossom
Maractus
Farfetch'd
Ariados
Sudowoodo
Exploud
Delibird
Carnivine
Beedrill
Leavanny
Wormadam-G
Unfezant
Stantler
Sunflora
Delcatty
Corsola
Illumise
Leipard
Dewgong
Plusle
Dustox
Lumineon
Wigglytuff
Pachirisu
Minun
Wormadam-S
Spinda
Castform
Beautifly
Kricketune
Watchog
Cherrim
Unown
Phione
Delibird


Cutoff at 3%

Some things in that list are OP though, like Zangoose and heavy BP so we've decided not to include them.

Vrai
November 18th, 2011, 08:11 PM
Just use a whole team with Battle Armor + a Ghost and Ground type. Critical Hits and Paralyze = 90% of hax imo. (Last 10% is like, flinches, which aren't annoying without the paralyze)

Being hax-free doesn't mean you'll be successful competitively, lol.

Hey yo, so im gonna do my threat list again in between work, college and smashing the gym. I want it smaller and minimize wording. Wolf gave me a few ideas where i could do sets and just link to smogon for the explanations and just list counters rather than explaining them since those took up so much space it was unreal.

...

Basically since this is for you guys, what do you want to see done with how i format it and what do you want included ? (I dont want to make anything massively wordy again as that was part of the reason that killed me wanting to do it last time lol)So what exactly is this going to look like? Link to competitive sets and then list some counters? I guess I'm having trouble figuring out why you should spend your time doing this when it seems to me that Smogon already has all that jazz. If you want to by all means go ahead, but I feel like it'd just be a wasted effort unless there are significant differences from Smogon. :(

Hey guys, WeavileWinz from PO is doing something pretty cool, creating a tier called NEU (I assume it means Never Ever Used), it basically consists of DP NU Pokes, which is awesome. It's pretty fun, worth checking out, at least. There's a channel on the PO server for it and stuff. I enjoy getting to pwn with Leafeon again, and Water Spout Wailord is fun too.

I'm not a huge fan of this, but that's probably just because I favor the Smogon tiers anyway. It seems too unofficial for me to be particularly interested (although I want our hiker meta back ;-;), I guess. And unofficial generally means run poorly which also means that it's probably not going to last very long, imo.

Impo
November 18th, 2011, 08:15 PM
I love the sound of NEU, I can pull out my old NU team from DPPt

Dark Azelf
November 19th, 2011, 05:58 AM
So what exactly is this going to look like? Link to competitive sets and then list some counters? I guess I'm having trouble figuring out why you should spend your time doing this when it seems to me that Smogon already has all that jazz. If you want to by all means go ahead, but I feel like it'd just be a wasted effort unless there are significant differences from Smogon. :(


Hence why i asked for feedback on what you guys want to see in it. I went into more detail on last time especially on counters partially because of that, but i ended up being TL;DR. Truth be told i want it to be different from smogon too.

I guess i could add in how to eliminate counters as in lures. Smogon dont really have those. They just have "Oh Quagsire is a good partner to Zard as it resists electric and rock whilst zard resists grass !!!! weee" lol.

Vrai
November 19th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Hence why i asked for feedback on what you guys want to see in it. I went into more detail on last time especially on counters partially because of that, but i ended up being TL;DR. Truth be told i want it to be different from smogon too.

I guess i could add in how to eliminate counters as in lures. Smogon dont really have those. They just have "Oh Quagsire is a good partner to Zard as it resists electric and rock whilst zard resists grass !!!! weee" lol.

Yeah, I think making it different than Smogon would definitely be best if you were going to go for it. I think the best thing you could do is talk about partners in general, what works best off of each other, lures, idk just some teambuilding advice in general when using x mon. That's probably the best you'll get in general without repeating what Smogon says.

Ooka
November 19th, 2011, 09:40 AM
Being hax-free doesn't mean you'll be successful competitively, lol.



Did I imply that or something? :/

Vrai
November 19th, 2011, 02:31 PM
Did I imply that or something? :/

Yes. I don't know what else you could've meant. :<

In other news, have any of you been paying attention to CAP (http://www.smogon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=66)? It's pretty cool stuff.

PlatinumDude
November 19th, 2011, 03:44 PM
Yes. I don't know what else you could've meant. :<

In other news, have any of you been paying attention to CAP (http://www.smogon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=66)? It's pretty cool stuff.

I've red about it a few times, yes, but I don't take part in its metagame.

Speaking of CAP, how well do you think the Gen IV CAPs will do in Gen V?

Vrai
November 19th, 2011, 05:02 PM
I've red about it a few times, yes, but I don't take part in its metagame.

Speaking of CAP, how well do you think the Gen IV CAPs will do in Gen V?

I haven't played either. I just like to follow along and watch their discussions because honestly a lot of things can be learned even watching them discuss things. The last CAP was about momentum and it was pretty cool watching it go through development and finding out new things about how momentum works and things like that. My favorite part about CAP is that they all have a purpose, with questions to fill and new things to learn about the game.

Forever
November 20th, 2011, 06:02 AM
Why are the analyses of the Pokemon so much longer than the normal aka real Pokemon analyses (lol Chrome says the word I want to say isn't real and I feel like I'm using that in the wrong tense) o_O Well I only clicked one Pokemon but I assume that's the standard length, that's crazy. :x It's a kinda nice idea to build a whole new metagame without the help of Gamefreak's Pokemon creation, though.

Vrai
November 20th, 2011, 09:43 AM
Why are the analyses of the Pokemon so much longer than the normal aka real Pokemon analyses (lol Chrome says the word I want to say isn't real and I feel like I'm using that in the wrong tense) o_O Well I only clicked one Pokemon but I assume that's the standard length, that's crazy. :x It's a kinda nice idea to build a whole new metagame without the help of Gamefreak's Pokemon creation, though.

wat

Do you mean this (http://www.smogon.com/cap/pokemon/strategies/voodoom)? Because I have no idea what you meant.

Forever
November 20th, 2011, 05:14 PM
YES. Those. Clearly what I said was quite logical and would be anybody's first assumption! But yeah, those things are long, lol.

Vrai
November 20th, 2011, 05:17 PM
YES. Those. Clearly what I said was quite logical and would be anybody's first assumption! But yeah, those things are long, lol.

Well all of them are long. :( Those in particular might be longer because they deal with mons a lot of people are unfamiliar with, requiring more explaining.

Forever
November 21st, 2011, 08:16 AM
Okay just going to like bring up something I saw at Smogon that's really annoying me (in relation to making Deoxys-S uber).

I really really don't think it's broken, I ran a purely offensive one as a lead and with its defensive stats it usually got 2HKO'd really easy, and just killed if Tar came along, yeah, superpower could technically kill it BUT if you've already superpowered Heatran or something, then yeaah, Tar wins (also more common than Deoxys-S in usage so people are likely to have that!). Basically, Deoxys-S got a few kills but as soon as it faced priority and with LO it didn't really stand a chance, lol. As for the screens / hazards, neither really bother me (well even in general), even though my team is offensive, I still manage to bide time until screens go away (IDK HOW), and with Deoxys-S it's killed by a lot of common Pokemon (Scizor say hi), whereas for hazards it's just another Forretress/Skarm etc. tbh Sableye (which is apparently more common) could also render Deoxys-S useless, so...

Idkkkkkkkk I think there's a lot of others that can be considered more broken than Deoxys-S. :(

Zorua
November 21st, 2011, 08:23 AM
I'm pretty neutral if Deoxys-S does turn out to be banned from OU. It isn't too terribly hard to kill, but one thing one has to remember when facing the Pokemon is that you have no idea what in the hell it's going to do. The problem with Deoxys-S, to me, lies just within that. Of course it isn't hard to kill, but it's annoying as hell, and offensive Deoxys-S is a lot more threatening than most people make it out to be. Especially with LO, it can wreck a lot of pokes in a team.

I used to be fairly stubborn about defending Deoxys-S in it's rightful OU tier, but after laddering and facing like a million of those damn things myself, I think it's time to just about put that thing to rest in maybe the Uber tier, who knows. I doubt OU would die off without deoxys-s(it hasn't when excadrill and thundurus was, so who's to say it would if deoxys would be banned, too?)

So I'm indifferent either way. If it gets banned, great! If it stays, great! It's just annoying to deal with, overall.

it usually got 2HKO'd really easy, and just killed if Tar came along, yeah, superpower could technically kill it BUT if you've already superpowered Heatran or something, then yeaah, Tar winsSuperpower still kills tyranitar no matter what situation it's in. Except maybe if it's scarftar, but I think deo-s outruns even that.

Basically, Deoxys-S got a few kills but as soon as it faced priority and with LO it didn't really stand a chance, lol.Thats because it kinda wouldn't matter as by the time it dies, it would have already done most of its job if not all.

and with Deoxys-S it's killed by a lot of common Pokemon (Scizor say hi)Say hi to Deoxys-S' fire punch(yes, they DO exist).

Yes, it can have fire punch. With spikes/rocks damage, I believe fire punch kinda says bye-bye to scizor.

Forever
November 21st, 2011, 09:01 AM
Oh right, the Deoxys-S that go without Superpower are when Tar comes in handy (lool knew I was forgetting something).

You could say the same about other Pokemon that set up Spikes / SR, but they're not necessarily broken, and with their defenses, in some cases don't really need the speed to survive/set-up the hazards, because yeah, those too, after that purpose are useless.

Yeah that'd be pretty uncommon, though. I find Psycho Boost / hazards / taunt, or Superpower / hazards / taunt, or Superpower / Psychic / Ice beam / Tbolt more common (ice beam at least).

Oh, and on another note, Starmie can also learn boltbeam, a psychic attack and a water type attack, it also outspeeds a lot of Pokemon, can hurt the opponents a lot, so on the offensive front, Deoxys-S isn't much different to Starmie. While on hazards, it's not really different from the standard hazards setter-uppers (not even a word idc), etc.

Vrai
November 21st, 2011, 10:55 AM
Oh right, the Deoxys-S that go without Superpower are when Tar comes in handy (lool knew I was forgetting something).

You could say the same about other Pokemon that set up Spikes / SR, but they're not necessarily broken, and with their defenses, in some cases don't really need the speed to survive/set-up the hazards, because yeah, those too, after that purpose are useless.

Yeah that'd be pretty uncommon, though. I find Psycho Boost / hazards / taunt, or Superpower / hazards / taunt, or Superpower / Psychic / Ice beam / Tbolt more common (ice beam at least).

Oh, and on another note, Starmie can also learn boltbeam, a psychic attack and a water type attack, it also outspeeds a lot of Pokemon, can hurt the opponents a lot, so on the offensive front, Deoxys-S isn't much different to Starmie. While on hazards, it's not really different from the standard hazards setter-uppers (not even a word idc), etc.

The argument is not that Deoxys-S is broken at any one of its roles (in which case, yes, you are correct - Deoxys-S is offensively inferior to, say, Starmie) but rather its versatility. You don't know what's coming out of Deoxys-S. Bring in Tyranitar expecting a Spikes set? Have fun eating a LO Superpower. Try Forretress to spin away hazards for a Deo-S leading for a Heavy Offense team? Have fun eating a Fire-type attack and having your best response to Haxorus nullified, essentially.

It's impossible to tell what Deoxys-S is going to throw at you so you can't even effectively respond until it has already done its job.

Ooka
November 21st, 2011, 11:38 AM
Yeah, pretty much the only way to effectively counter it is Jirachi in Rain, in which case you can still get set up on entirely with Hazards or Screens, opening you up for a sweep. It's entirely unpredictable, and imo it should move to ubers.

Dark Azelf
November 21st, 2011, 01:05 PM
Yeah, pretty much the only way to effectively counter it is Jirachi in Rain, in which case you can still get set up on entirely with Hazards or Screens, opening you up for a sweep. It's entirely unpredictable, and imo it should move to ubers.

Ive been saying this for monthssss lol.

Exile
November 21st, 2011, 01:35 PM
Guys. Deoxys-S isn't broken because it has "no counters", the LO Sets have plenty of counters, due to having moveslot syndrome, and once you manage to scout its set, you can counter it. The most broken aspect of Deo-S is its support aspect, where you can't afford to scout it because it will lay Hazards/Screens while you haphazardly switch around. The fact that it won't defer from its job unless it sees a Pokemon which it can significantly damage is what makes it so annoying, and what causes players to be extremely cautious when sending in their spinner, lest it be OHKO'd by Hidden Power Fire/Thunderbolt/Psycho Boost, etc.

I've further outlined what makes this monster such a threat to the OU Tier in my nomination at Smogon.

[css-div=background-color: #FEE0C6; width: 600; height: 1000; border: dashed #ECF1EF;"]
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/bw/389.png

Deoxys-S is such a potent threat in the current metagame, because it causes you to fight an uphill battle for the majority of the match, and it does this in a number of ways, the first of which is with entry hazards. While there are other "fast spikers", Deoxys-S is the bulkiest, the only one with Stealth Rock and the most threatening to spinners. Deoxys's bulk is actually quite underrated, as shown by this set (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3457070) and the fact that it's able to manage getting up entry hazards on Pokemon that "hard counter its offensive sets", such as Specially Defensive Jirachi, which is only doing 30.92% - 36.84% with Iron Head and 22.04% - 25.99% with Body Slam, to the standard 252 HP/252 Spe Support set.

Deoxys-S is not only a great layer of hazards because of its amazing speed tier, but the fact that it has the potential to be threatening to any spinner. It might seem like a good idea to send in your Forretress to Spin away its hazards before taking it down with Gyro Ball, but if you're aware of the many possible attacks this Pokemon can carry, then you're obviously going to hesitate. What if it has Hidden Power Fire/Fire Punch? Then you're Forretress loses a huge chunk of its health, and your best means of beating the Haxorus on your opponent's team is now null and void, the same scenario goes for Tentacruel and Deoxys-S's Psycho Boost, as well as Starmie fearing Thunderbolt. This is purely theoretical, of course, but it's actually a somewhat common scenario, regardless of which Rapid Spinner you have and which threat it counters. Deoxys-S has established itself as a viable user of such a vast array of attacks, that Rapid Spinners feel threatened just switching in, and, through its imposing presence and high Speed, Deoxys-S is able to get Entry Hazards up with ease, making it very hard for a more defensive team to constantly take the brutal attacks of the opponent's remaining sweepers until they can find a time in which their Rapid Spinner can absolve the field of Entry Hazards. The worst part is that there is absolutely no way to tell what Deoxys-S has, other than playing into its hand by trying to scout it while it sets up Hazards/Screens on you and I think Faladran's replay shows this better than words could, so if you send in your Tentacruel, you're essentially taking a stab in the dark; any Pokemon that forces you to do this in order to 'shut them down' is unhealthy for the metagame.

Next up, we have the Screens set, much like the Entry Hazards set, Deoxys-S can get this up relatively easily and while Screens have always been a somewhat large part of the competitive metagame, Deoxys-S isn't set up bait like other Screen Users such as Bronzong, Cresselia, etc and can't be Taunted like the aforementioned Pokemon, unless you're using something like Whimsicott.

The Offensive LO sets are only useful for beating primarily offensive teams, and even then, its attacks aren't that strong and many Pokemon can shake them off, kd24 is spot on in saying that the support sets are the most threatening because they put you at an immediate disadvantage and stopping them from doing their job is no easy task.

I''m going to echo the definition of an Uber Support Pokemon, because I believe it characterizes Deoxys-S perfectly and illustrates why it is detrimental to the current metagame.

Support Characteristic

A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


This sounds quite familiar. Deoxys-S's niche is consistently setting up situations that facilitate sweeping, as illustrated by both of its support sets. You can't deny that Pokemon like Choice Band Haxorus love the 37.5% of residual that the Ferrothorn that was supposed to counter it, just took from the 4 layers of hazards that Deoxys-S set up at the beginning of the battle. To reiterate, Deoxys-S can do this consistently because it has the ability to pose a threat to the majority of the spinners in the OU Metagame and the fact that it's Screens can't be taunted away, and Brick Break is hardly used for the purpose of smashing screens [not to mention many of the common users of Brick Break such as Scizor are beaten by Deoxys-S if they happen to carry the appropriate attack, in this case it being Fire Punch/Hidden Power Fire].

Finally, while one can argue that Deoxys-S has moveslot syndrome, you can't mess around and scout for its moveset, because it could be setting Spikes all over your field while you do so, unlike the Hidden Power Fire Rotom-W whose waters you can test by sending in a Ferrothorn and then quickly switching it out for something like Latios, because in the process, you aren't put at any kind of disadvantage.

In conclusion, I think Deoxys-S's sheer versatility, threatening presence and unmatched ability to facilitate the sweeping of its team members add up to it a Pokemon that is effectively worthy of a ban from the OU Tier.[/css-div]

Forever
November 21st, 2011, 05:18 PM
Okay let's compare its sets to one other in general, aka random example (yes I know they're completely different, this is an example of sets that you really don't know til you come in) -

Deoxys-S: 3.
Dragonite: 8. (Plus multiscale and DD or straight out attacking, oh yes, another unpredictable Pokemon!)

And tbh, why would you send out a spinner on Deoxys-S anyway? Just use something that'd be neutral to its sets to kill it, aka something with levitate and not weak to boltbeam etc and then send in a spinner once it's gone.

I personally don't use a spinner and I've never had an issue with any of Deoxys-S sets so meh. I just think that the whole it being unpredictable thing shouldn't really stand ground because I can think of a lot of other unpredictable Pokemon that aren't being brought up for this but can potentially hurt you badly.

But yeah, if you guys really think it's an issue, then hopefully for you guys it's banned but I've honestly got nothing against it, lol, and I still think it's not hard to get rid of. :(

Keiran
November 21st, 2011, 06:56 PM
But if Deoxys-S is banned from OU, having Magic Bounce Espeon won't be as fun. :(

Ooka
November 21st, 2011, 09:12 PM
Dat theorymon.

And Dnite is just as broken as Deo imo, just in different regards, Dnite for it's ability to hurt a lot on both spectrums, and Deo for it's ability to support or hurt.

Also Magic Bounce Espeon can lose to it as well, Shadow Ball. It wasn't very common, but with Espeon increasing, Wifi causes me to take like, 57% on the switch in due to Shadow Ball because they see it coming.

But yeah, either way I play NU now, but if Deo goes (And hopefully Dnite) I'll end up back in OU.

Vrai
November 21st, 2011, 09:26 PM
Okay let's compare its sets to one other in general, aka random example (yes I know they're completely different, this is an example of sets that you really don't know til you come in) -

Deoxys-S: 3.
Dragonite: 8. (Plus multiscale and DD or straight out attacking, oh yes, another unpredictable Pokemon!)

And tbh, why would you send out a spinner on Deoxys-S anyway? Just use something that'd be neutral to its sets to kill it, aka something with levitate and not weak to boltbeam etc and then send in a spinner once it's gone.

I personally don't use a spinner and I've never had an issue with any of Deoxys-S sets so meh. I just think that the whole it being unpredictable thing shouldn't really stand ground because I can think of a lot of other unpredictable Pokemon that aren't being brought up for this but can potentially hurt you badly.

But yeah, if you guys really think it's an issue, then hopefully for you guys it's banned but I've honestly got nothing against it, lol, and I still think it's not hard to get rid of. :(

Because spinblocking is easy and all the spinners suck save Starmie, maybe. You still lose to SpD Jellicent if you don't catch it on the switch with LO Thunderbolt, in which case it can just keep recovering until you KO it and then Pursuit Starmie to death so you can't spin at all. I hate Dragonite significantly more than Deoxys-S, actually. It's the premier reason why I don't like OU.

I just think that the whole it being unpredictable thing shouldn't really stand ground because I can think of a lot of other unpredictable Pokemon that aren't being brought up for this but can potentially hurt you badly.

Yeah, nothing else being unpredictable has the same team-supporting abilities as Deoxys-S. Losing 37.5% on every non-Flying/Levitating SR-neutral switch-in means a lot more than switching to Cloyster on a Dragonite Outrage. Also list of mons viable in OU with Levitate and neutral to BoltBeam: Bronzong, Gengar, Rotom-W. Gengar and Rotom-W are outsped and OHKOd by Psycho Boost whereas Bronzong cannot prevent Deoxys-S from getting 2+ layers and if it's a Dual Screens variant then you lose because it sets up Reflect, then Light Screen, and then SR while you slowly Gyro Ball it to death and then they just set something up in your face.

Miss Doronjo
November 22nd, 2011, 06:49 PM
Dat theorymon.

And Dnite is just as broken as Deo imo, just in different regards, Dnite for it's ability to hurt a lot on both spectrums, and Deo for it's ability to support or hurt.

Also Magic Bounce Espeon can lose to it as well, Shadow Ball. It wasn't very common, but with Espeon increasing, Wifi causes me to take like, 57% on the switch in due to Shadow Ball because they see it coming.

But yeah, either way I play NU now, but if Deo goes (And hopefully Dnite) I'll end up back in OU.

NU, huh?
I've been kind of interested on how that metagame plays for a while now, so I may try that metagame myself~

Vrai
November 22nd, 2011, 08:01 PM
NU, huh?
I've been kind of interested on how that metagame plays for a while now, so I may try that metagame myself~

play it because nu is awesomesauce

karpman told me to remove caps :(

Ooka
November 22nd, 2011, 10:22 PM
Yeah NU is great, very balanced already and far more developed than the other metagames (Well, Uber there's nothing that can be helped, so I suppose it could be considered balanced).

Btw, is there anything I can do about Luke's team? I didn't get a reply, but I thought it was a decent suggestion. Do you guys think TR needs two users or no?

PlatinumDude
November 22nd, 2011, 11:41 PM
Yeah NU is great, very balanced already and far more developed than the other metagames (Well, Uber there's nothing that can be helped, so I suppose it could be considered balanced).

Btw, is there anything I can do about Luke's team? I didn't get a reply, but I thought it was a decent suggestion. Do you guys think TR needs two users or no?

It's not a bad idea to include extra Trick Room users because TR only lasts for 5 turns. If you have only 1 TR user in your team and it gets KOed before it has a chance to set it up again, you're (almost) screwed.

Forever
November 22nd, 2011, 11:48 PM
karpman told me to remove caps :(

Karpman controls Vrai now? THIS IS INTERESTING NEWS.

Btw, is there anything I can do about Luke's team? I didn't get a reply, but I thought it was a decent suggestion. Do you guys think TR needs two users or no?

Also agreeing w/ PlatDude, although I haven't used TR myself, generally most TR teams I see/have faced usually have more than one TR user and then something fast in case TR fails-- of which I only just realised why that's not a bad idea. XD

Ooka
November 22nd, 2011, 11:53 PM
Yeah, I was thinking the same, just would suck to lose your only TRer.

Vrai
November 23rd, 2011, 12:32 PM
I've always had trouble with TR teams in general - you're not bulky/fast enough to handle powerful offensive teams and you're not strong enough to break through stallish teams easily, either. Plus you have to rely on a field condition that you really only have four turns to work with. It'd be much better if there was an auto-TR inducer (imagine how good that would be!) or something that elongated TR, but neither of those exist. :(

But yeah, TR definitely needs multiple users. Just like how you can't base an entire team around a single Pokemon (ie baton pass team with one recipient), you won't be too successful when your lone TR user dies. :(

Cycle
November 24th, 2011, 07:04 AM
TR needs at least two users, preferably three.

Anyways, have you guys been using HO in OU? It's a ridiculously easy playstyle to use, just set up screens with your deoxys-s and then start slamming away at them with sweeper after sweeper. You can climb up to about 1200 in like 15 minutes lol. Deoxys-s is singlehandedly the best pokemon except like maybe Dragonite/Volcarona lol. In fact, smogon is suspecting it.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3458002

Vrai
November 24th, 2011, 09:08 AM
TR needs at least two users, preferably three.

Anyways, have you guys been using HO in OU? It's a ridiculously easy playstyle to use, just set up screens with your deoxys-s and then start slamming away at them with sweeper after sweeper. You can climb up to about 1200 in like 15 minutes lol. Deoxys-s is singlehandedly the best pokemon except like maybe Dragonite/Volcarona lol. In fact, smogon is suspecting it.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3458002

And as far as I know from listening to them on IRC, it sounds like they're going to ban it, too. ;(

Cycle
November 24th, 2011, 09:47 AM
And as far as I know from listening to them on IRC, it sounds like they're going to ban it, too. ;(

It's a shame, considering that Deoxys-S is such a good pokemon.

Dark Azelf
November 24th, 2011, 09:56 AM
Yay. No more Broken-S lol. Now all i hAve to do is get Reuniclus banned and my evil plan will have come to fruition. ;D

Overlord Drakow
November 24th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Yay. No more Broken-S lol. Now all i hAve to do is get Reuniclus banned and my evil plan will have come to fruition. ;D

BRING BACK GARCHOMP.

Until that happens I can never truly return to the competitive scene.

Dark Azelf
November 25th, 2011, 12:51 AM
BRING BACK GARCHOMP.

Until that happens I can never truly return to the competitive scene.

Use Flygon. Actually, dont lol. :x

Also Garchomp can go away until Rough Skin comes out. >:[

Vrai
November 25th, 2011, 07:02 AM
I would be so excited if they brought back 'chompy with Rough Skin. Just saying.

Exile
November 25th, 2011, 07:30 PM
I'd love it if Sand Veil was banned and Garchomp was brought back. Garchomp is my favorite Pokemon and I loved using it when it was around, while I've fallen in love with many Pokemon such as Celebi, Heatran, Terrakion and Tangrowth, Garchomp returning to the metagame would really increase my motivation to play and make awesome teams with it. Also, Elf, Reuniclus really isn't that bad. TR Reuniclus is a joke to stall, since Protect is on so many mons and the ones with reliable recovery can just stall it out of TR, provided it doesn't crit. Calm Mind Reuniclus is beaten by the following Pokemon that are viable on Stall Teams

-Jirachi
-CB Tyranitar
-Deoxys-D [Taunt+Night Shade]
-Mew [^]
-Perish Song Celebi
-Sableye
-Spiritomb [lol]
-Psyshock versions lose to taunt Gliscor
-If it isn't last mon, then CM Roar Latias wins

Also, BoTW 2 between Earthworm and Imperfectluck is taking place in 1 minute on the SU Server, if anyone's interested.

Dark Azelf
November 26th, 2011, 02:18 PM
I'd love it if Sand Veil was banned and Garchomp was brought back. Garchomp is my favorite Pokemon and I loved using it when it was around, while I've fallen in love with many Pokemon such as Celebi, Heatran, Terrakion and Tangrowth, Garchomp returning to the metagame would really increase my motivation to play and make awesome teams with it. Also, Elf, Reuniclus really isn't that bad. TR Reuniclus is a joke to stall, since Protect is on so many mons and the ones with reliable recovery can just stall it out of TR, provided it doesn't crit. Calm Mind Reuniclus is beaten by the following Pokemon that are viable on Stall Teams

-Jirachi - Yay 100% counter.
-CB Tyranitar - Loses to TR versions. Also cant OHKo without a CB even then most of the time Reuniclus actually lives a CB Crunch.
-Deoxys-D [Taunt+Night Shade] - Loses to the TR set.
-Mew [^] - see above.
-Perish Song Celebi - see above.
-Sableye - yay 100% counter.
-Spiritomb [lol] - This isnt very good in OU imo (as shown by its usage). Rest and Pain Split absolutely suck and for the most part why would you use it over Sableye?
-Psyshock versions lose to taunt Gliscor. - Loses to any set with Psychic, plus i doubt its wanting to take Shadow Balls tbh (Modest LO Shadow Ball Vs 252 /0 Glis 43.5% - 51.4%)
-If it isn't last mon, then CM Roar Latias wins. - Loses to TR set and also CM LO Psyshock beats it as its a 3HKO at +1 even from defensive sets so its very real Reuniclus will wear you down over the course of a match.


Bold.

Im not saying it doesnt have counters. Plus thats barely relevant, chomp has counters (sup im Quagsire) Exca has counters, doesnt stop them being uber. Reuniclus imo fits the uber characteristics because its exactly like Salamence last gen though, not because it solely beats stall. It will cost you or badly cripple if a mon or several if you guess wrong on the set its packing (not even mence/dragons couldn't do that last gen as its sets all had one common check - steels) and its CM checks are TOTALLY different from its TR sets bar Jira and Sp.def Scizor (Latter MUST be sp.def otherwise 248/0 takes up to 80% from TR LO Focus Blast) (maybe Sableye too as a 100% surefire counter). The TR set will crush 90% of the CM counters and really hurts offensive teams (even defensive teams struggle due to its type coverage and mixed attacking[Psyshock to beat special walls]) and utterly reverses momentum so in a way its detriment to both offense and defense with its sets. Even the Cmer hurts offense rather badly as its ridiculously bulky and so hard to KO with Recover and being immune to all reidual damage. Ive also seen people in so many matches switch around just to try to outstall the TR turns because nothing they have can beat it, that just gets you worn down and opened up, its really stupid to be honest how many times this actually happens vs all sorts of opponents, even high on the ladder. Again going back to my point of "It will cost you or badly cripple a mon or several mons if you guess wrong on the set its packing". Reuniclus essentially is like Yanmega in UU last gen, in where is forces you to pack a 100% counter or be swept (in its case Registeel or Chansey and in Reuniclus case Sp.Def Scizor, Sableye and Jirachi) and Yanmega was actually banned for making play styles (namely HO) unviable. If you switched something into Yanmega expecting Speed Boost (CMer) it could pull Tinted Lense specs (TR) on you and crush your team.

And honestly, id sooner face Thundurus every day of the week rather than Reuniclus.

dr4g0n12(2)
November 30th, 2011, 10:24 PM
BRING BACK GARCHOMP.

Until that happens I can never truly return to the competitive scene.


Use Haxorus (with a choice scarf)

Dark Azelf
December 1st, 2011, 03:01 PM
Dear CBC aka S+M,

Please go on the PO server as im lonely, naked etc. This will also increase activity.

Regards, Cutezelf.

Overlord Drakow
December 1st, 2011, 03:13 PM
Awww Dark Azelf <3

As much as I would like to go onto the server and have you bear my children, I will have to respectfully decline this opportunity as I do not want you to bend me over and rape me Pokemon style V______V

I appreciate all the help you're giving me with my team building and such though! <3

Use Haxorus (with a choice scarf)

It's just NOT THE SAME!

Dark Azelf
December 1st, 2011, 03:24 PM
Awww Dark Azelf <3

As much as I would like to go onto the server and have you bear my children, I will have to respectfully decline this opportunity as I do not want you to bend me over and rape me Pokemon style V______V

I appreciate all the help you're giving me with my team building and such though! <3



It's just NOT THE SAME!

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/b/bb/645Landorus.png/144px-645Landorus.png / http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/a/ad/639Terrakion.png/180px-639Terrakion.png @ http://th616.photobucket.com/albums/tt241/NigglezNGigglez/Nigglez%20Pokemon%20Recolors/th_ChoiceScarf.png

Use imo. Best scarfers in game.

Vrai
December 1st, 2011, 03:50 PM
Dear CBC aka S+M,

Please go on the PO server as im lonely, naked etc. This will also increase activity.

Regards, Cutezelf.

sorry i have evolved into a sloth, therefore i sleep away like 98% of my day

Overlord Drakow
December 1st, 2011, 03:53 PM
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/b/bb/645Landorus.png/144px-645Landorus.png / http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/a/ad/639Terrakion.png/180px-639Terrakion.png @ http://th616.photobucket.com/albums/tt241/NigglezNGigglez/Nigglez%20Pokemon%20Recolors/th_ChoiceScarf.png

Use imo. Best scarfers in game.

I will never use Terrakion. Ever. I might consider Landorus though ¬____¬

Forever
December 1st, 2011, 06:45 PM
I was also... sleeping. Or was I? idk I think I was. /legitimate excuse

Drakow Terrakion is amazing D< Well idk, I think I used scarf Terrakion, I know I used sash for a while but idk I prefer being able to either SD or Rock Polish tbh. Also, tried scarf Landorus it was "okay" for me, I don't really recall much about when I did, though :(

ShineyMaster
December 2nd, 2011, 05:56 PM
Will anybody do a test battle with me? i need to test my new team.

Kittyipawd
December 2nd, 2011, 08:29 PM
I have a skar/tran/gastro core and a offensive core of 2 nasty plot zoroark and mew (I use transform for last slot on mew) what is a good glue pokemon gengar is not working right now.

Forever
December 3rd, 2011, 02:16 AM
Will anybody do a test battle with me? i need to test my new team.

Best place to ask for this is in the quick battle thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=246217), cause this place serves as discussion, while that subforum concentrates more on the battling side of competitive. :)

edit:
| 1 | Deoxys-S | 49519 | 10.532% |
| 2 | Politoed | 40819 | 8.681% |

Okay I know how I said I wanted Deoxys-S to get main lead last month, but... really, considering how common weather is, yeah idk I'm not a great fan of that stat now, lol.

Also, omg yes for most common:
| 1 | Scizor | 137715 | 29.269% | 115559 | 29.456% |
| 2 | Dragonite | 132284 | 28.114% | 106045 | 27.031% |
| 3 | Rotom-W | 105408 | 22.402% | 94593 | 24.112% |
| 4 | Ferrothorn | 86862 | 18.461% | 76529 | 19.507% |

tbh Scizor literally IS the most useful Pokemon in OU (and yet I can beat it easily lool while mine lasts) so I'm glad w/ that.

Ghost Lunis
December 3rd, 2011, 08:36 AM
I have a feeling that dragonite wont last too much longer. After 1-2 dd, he is crazy. I should know, I've used one since I started comp battling and he has won me soo any matches.
I would hate to see him go, but he hurts.

Vrai
December 3rd, 2011, 06:00 PM
tbh Scizor literally IS the most useful Pokemon in OU (and yet I can beat it easily lool while mine lasts) so I'm glad w/ that.
I completely disagree. Scizor has strong priority and U-turn, and that'd be it. There are tons of other mons with so much more use...

Forever
December 4th, 2011, 01:28 AM
Priority generally is something every team needs tbh (sure there's screens and other things that can help you but with the amount of things like dragon dance, choice scarf users and the such around, I find myself pretty lost w/o priority) and Scizor just happens to be one of the better users of it. It's the most useful to me but definitely is one of the most useful overall because other than Lucario/Ice Shard users/Dragonite, nothing else really uses priority, and those are all less commonly used, mainly because Scizor gets technician boost, STAB, etc.

PlatinumDude
December 4th, 2011, 01:46 AM
Priority generally is something every team needs tbh (sure there's screens and other things that can help you but with the amount of things like dragon dance, choice scarf users and the such around, I find myself pretty lost w/o priority) and Scizor just happens to be one of the better users of it. It's the most useful to me but definitely is one of the most useful overall because other than Lucario/Ice Shard users/Dragonite, nothing else really uses priority, and those are all less commonly used, mainly because Scizor gets technician boost, STAB, etc.
You forgot about Conkeldurr and Mach Punch (Breloom is sometimes seen with it too). Conkeldurr's Mach Punch gets rather powerful after a Bulk Up or two.

Forever
December 4th, 2011, 02:07 AM
Forgot 'bout them two! But tbh, there's also the fact that Extremespeed, Fake Out, Mach Punch all have a type which they can't hit at all, while Bullet Punch doesn't get that (and only resisted by a few!) In fact, after one SD boost it can pretty much 2hko or OHKO 21 Pokemon in OU, which is prettyyy useful. Oh and that psychics are common in OU too, so u-turn/bug bite actually are of great use. Just how I see it though.

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 07:29 AM
Good points on scizor but a lot of ou pokes pack a fire move as well so if that bullet punch doesn't ohko, a 4xbattle weakness really hurts.

Forever
December 4th, 2011, 07:34 AM
Well that's something you can figure from battling often tbh, I can generally tell what has fire attacks (punch, flamethrower, fire blast), or HP fire and generally what bullet punch can OHKO (and my other Pokemon covering that obv).

Zorua
December 4th, 2011, 07:40 AM
tbh Scizor literally IS the most useful Pokemon in OU (and yet I can beat it easily lool while mine lasts) so I'm glad w/ that.

Scizor is okay at best. I'm going with Vrai's sediments and saying that there are a lot of things are better than scizor, despite it's apparently usefulness due to technician boosted BP and CB U-turning. To me, I feel that Scizor relies a bit too much on priority to help save it's butt. With that being said, it also has a huge gaping weakness in will-o-wisp, which almost every rotom-w carries nowadays if it isn't Trick.

Now, I know you're probably going to say something to the effect of "oh well i beat rotoms before etc" but realize that is not going to be the case all the time. Scizor has a very scary weakness to burns, or just about any status(aside from poison for obvious reasons). Fire punch Jirachi, for example, leaves a pretty huge dent in scizor's health as far as I know, as well as other users of fire attacks. With that being said, HP Fire Magnezone might be another threat to scizor(that doesn't have superpower, that is). There are a lot of other things that can come in on scizor which ultimately dampens its overall performance. Heck, Even Dragonite can come in(I can be wrong about this) and Fire punch/Hurricane the thing to death.

Don't misunderstand, however. I'm not saying its the crappiest thing ever, but do be wary of your opponents strategies instead of taking them for granted.

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 07:42 AM
That is true. That why I like giving unconventional pokemon hp fire ^_^ .also yes, dragonite's fire punch hurts him a lot. And with multiscale active, that priority is meh at best

Forever
December 4th, 2011, 07:49 AM
That's what team preview can be used for. Take out the threats and then feel free to sweep, like for example (different case but yeah), I wouldn't use Shell Smash on a Cloyster with focus sash while any priority user is in the opponent's team, etc, same should go for this. If Scizor is used with caution then it's fine imo.

Also on the Rotom-W note, I actually prefer HP fire since it OHKO's scizor and outspeeds rather than the opponent assuming you will use w-o-w and switch in something w-o-w doesn't really hurt lol. I'm not saying like Scizor is the ultimate Pokemon or anything, it's just really one of the most useful and if used effectively it can be hard to stop.

Also on the HP fire note in general, at one point 3/6 of my Pokemon had HP fire, lol, but then I realised I needed ice so gave it to the one that could make the most use of HP ice. :x

Oh yeah, and with Multiscale? Stealth rock and scizor go well. :)

Zorua
December 4th, 2011, 07:57 AM
That's what team preview can be used for. Take out the threats and then feel free to sweep, like for example (different case but yeah), I wouldn't use Shell Smash on a Cloyster with focus sash while any priority user is in the opponent's team, etc, same should go for this. If Scizor is used with caution then it's fine imo.

That applies to just about every Pokemon that anyone uses. You can be cautious and still be completely caught off guard by a random HP fire or a status move and then it's gg.


Also on the Rotom-W note, I actually prefer HP fire since it OHKO's scizor and outspeeds rather than the opponent assuming you will use w-o-w and switch in something w-o-w doesn't really hurt lol. I'm not saying like Scizor is the ultimate Pokemon or anything, it's just really one of the most useful and if used effectively it can be hard to stop.Personally, I prefer HP ice for the sake of killing off dragons, but that depends on every team's needs. W-o-W is extremely useful, seeing as it kinda cripples Dragonite, other Scizor, and just about any physical attacker save those that are fire-type. So yes, there's very few things W-o-W doesnt hurt aside from special attackers.

And like I said, that can be said for any pokemon. If it's used effectively, any Pokemon can be difficult to stop.


Also on the HP fire note in general, at one point 3/6 of my Pokemon had HP fire, lol, but then I realised I needed ice so gave it to the one that could make the most use of HP ice. :x

Oh yeah, and with Multiscale? Stealth rock and scizor go well. :)

Dragonite can simply roost off SR damage, and then whats your solution to that? It can set up while you're busy fishing for a crit or something until it Fire Punches you. D:

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 08:05 AM
It should go like this..stealth rock, taunt, then scizor say hello to multiscale.
Dragonite being taunted hurts.

Zorua
December 4th, 2011, 08:08 AM
It should go like this..stealth rock, taunt, then scizor say hello to multiscale.
Dragonite being taunted hurts.

Agreeing with this, I suppose. .___. Taunt is only a temporary-ish solution however, and thats because it isn't as reliable as it used to be, seeing as Dragonite would probably remain taunted for a max of like...three turns without hesitating to roost again.

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 08:13 AM
That is true as well, but in three turns, enough damage can be done to 'nite to make roost ineffective at reactivating multiscale.

Zorua
December 4th, 2011, 08:17 AM
You're right on that. xD

To shift things around a bit....I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated by Shaymin. ):

Anti knows why ):<

shaymin is so godly ;__;

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 08:19 AM
I faced a shaymin only once and yes it was extremely frustrating.

Forever
December 4th, 2011, 08:20 AM
LATE BUT I'm not saying Scizor is any sort of counter to Dragonite btw, lol, it's just like Scizor really isn't that bad if given the chance to shine.

Also, you'd still outspeed the roost with bullet punch so keep track of its taunt count and in the meantime just SD over and over (assuming w/o fire punch but yeah) and I think after 1 or 2 SD's it kills Dragonite anyway with it after breaking multiscale. I wouldn't go for that strategy either way, I'd rather switch Scizor in on something safer as a whole tbh.

And yes Anti's Shaymin was indeed annoying, idk how I got past it, Heatran...?

Anti
December 4th, 2011, 08:32 AM
On the subject of most useful, I'll just go ahead and nominate Jirachi. The thing that bugs me about Scizor is that defensive SD/Roost sets are horribly inept offensively and the CBer gives a lot of set-up opportunities when it's locked into a non-U-turn move, Jirachi can definitely nab kills with Iron Head flinching or at the very least cripple stuff with Body Slam. The only thing that sucks is when I face Wolf's Magnezone in the rain and Fire Punch doesn't break its Sub anymore :(...though I have gotten a burn on it a few times ;)

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 08:56 AM
I can't say jirachi is the most useful, but dang he can be frustrating!

Dark Azelf
December 4th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Scizor is great, you shouldn't need an other move than U-Turn really. In essence Scizor has 0 counters because it forces you to to find something to take a STAB U-Turn from 591 Attack (CB) AND then you'll be forced to switch or die next turn again as they send in a counter directly from that U-Turn. It was this strategy i abused on my Volt Turn team, to quote myself; "With SR up and U-Turn, bear in mind Scizor will beat or wear down Skarmory (by going to Rotom-W/counter to force it out or die) so badly throughout the course of a game that Excadrill or Landorus is likely to sweep if you're using Skarm to "stop" Scizor's U-Turns and Skarmory 4x resists the move!". If you can keep hazards away CB Scizor is a monster and it will wear their team down, even its counters and checks when played well.

I also dont get the status argument, Scizor is slow as heck so doesnt care about T-Wave, its immune to Toxic, Wisps are obvious move is obvious so god knows why you'd keep it in and sleep cripples everything bar Toxic Orb Gliscor in OU anyway lol.

Ill agree with the Sp.Def sets of Scizor suck though. Man, so many times ive tried to make it work. Ive even used U-Turn over Bug Bite to scout checks (because everything counters it) and it still doesn't work, even hazards don't help it at all. I dont see the point in a set that cant sweep when its supposed to be a bulky sweeper as its primary job lol, it also doesn't really take hits that well. It either ends up just getting trapped by Magnezone or just walled as said, by anything with Def Evs.

As for the most useful, id actually say its actually Rotom-W tbh. Its on every team, its annoying, beats some very common threats, practically immune to all hazards, always has a way to screw your check, whilst just sitting there, always, obnoxiously. >:/ lol

Kittyipawd
December 4th, 2011, 09:11 AM
Do you guys think Weavile can be good in OU? It seems like the only pokemon that pester is are Ferrothorn Scizor and Conk. Sure the first two pokemon are the most over useded pokemon in the game but I was using a expert belt Weavile with Ice Shard Ice Punch Pursuit and Low Kick and if you take those 3 pokemon out of the equation you can sweep teams.

Are thier any hard counter to Ferrothorn Scizor and Conk? I have been using a 252 HP 232 Def 24 Shed Shell Skarm to Counter Conk and Scizor but they can play around it and skarm can't wall as good as it did in the 4th gen.

Maybe a Trapper type of team with Magnezone Wobbofet and Weavile could be used but im not good at teambuilding I just know teams have a exploitable Weavile weakness.

Is 252 HP 252 Def 4 Sp D Leftovers skarm viable?

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Yes I agree that rotom-w is probably the most annoying now that you mention it DA. Volt switch, hydro pump + levitate are a great combo. For awhile I used moldbreaker haxorus w/eq just because of that poke.

@kittyipawd, weavile is good don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of fighting moves used which hurt BAD. Like you mentioned, conk with mach punch can be a nightmare. Though he is a great killer of anything with a ice weakness . His spd is phenomenal. I wouldn't use him or any poke with a 4x weakness, unless it has really high def, spD, an hp.

Kittyipawd
December 4th, 2011, 09:39 AM
Yes I agree that rotom-w is probably the most annoying now that you mention it DA. Volt switch, hydro pump +swift levitate are a great combo. For awhile I used moldbreaker haxorus w/eq just because of that poke.

@kittyipawd, weavile is good don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of fighting moves used which hurt BAD. Like you mentioned, conk with mach punch can be a nightmare. Though he is a great killer of anything with a ice weakness . His spd is phenomenal. I wouldn't use him or any poke with a 4x weakness, unless it has really high def, spD, an hp.

I kinda slapped him on my team as a prioity user and with no sr support I have wrecked other teams so long as I have killed those 3 pokemon as weavile eithier gets owned b them or setup. I mean the most common choice scarf pokemon Landorus dies to ice shard lol. I usally net kos fiening a choice band then using low kick when they think im locked on pusuit. All and all I think it can be very effective if your team is built around countering those 3 pokemon and spin support. My team currently has trouble with ferrothorn and Scizor in the ****ing rain :(.

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 09:44 AM
O yea! With rain going those two can be annoying.
I wish there was a move or ability that completely abolishes weather.

Kittyipawd
December 4th, 2011, 09:49 AM
If you use something like sunny day on hitmontop against rain after the 5 turns will if become normal weather? If you don't have a weather inducer most times the will sac thier politoad. It ijust a question of game mechanics.

It is annoying how fire does nothing in rain ;_;. Is anyone a fan of Wide Lens Ninetails?

jirachi boy 385
December 4th, 2011, 09:50 AM
who wants to battle me?
I'm nathan and can battle on white or platinum...
anybody want to wifi battle with me?

Phlip
December 4th, 2011, 11:33 AM
I am looking for a battle!!!!

You can use any pokemon you want!

no OU, UU, NU or any of that crap.

just use whoever you want it can be legends, events, or just your new team i just want the freedom to use any pokemon

PM ME!!!!

jirachi boy 385
December 4th, 2011, 11:54 AM
I am looking for a battle!!!!

You can use any pokemon you want!

no OU, UU, NU or any of that crap.

just use whoever you want it can be legends, events, or just your new team i just want the freedom to use any pokemon

PM ME!!!!


I ACCEPT your challenge. I can do white or platinum.

Anti
December 4th, 2011, 01:38 PM
who wants to battle me?
I'm nathan and can battle on white or platinum...
anybody want to wifi battle with me?

I am looking for a battle!!!!

You can use any pokemon you want!

no OU, UU, NU or any of that crap.

just use whoever you want it can be legends, events, or just your new team i just want the freedom to use any pokemon

PM ME!!!!

Use the Tournaments and Events sub-forum to organize battles. This thread (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=246217) is especially useful.

Vrai
December 4th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Do you guys think Weavile can be good in OU? It seems like the only pokemon that pester is are Ferrothorn Scizor and Conk. Sure the first two pokemon are the most over useded pokemon in the game but I was using a expert belt Weavile with Ice Shard Ice Punch Pursuit and Low Kick and if you take those 3 pokemon out of the equation you can sweep teams.

Are thier any hard counter to Ferrothorn Scizor and Conk? I have been using a 252 HP 232 Def 24 Shed Shell Skarm to Counter Conk and Scizor but they can play around it and skarm can't wall as good as it did in the 4th gen.

Maybe a Trapper type of team with Magnezone Wobbofet and Weavile could be used but im not good at teambuilding I just know teams have a exploitable Weavile weakness.

Is 252 HP 252 Def 4 Sp D Leftovers skarm viable?

Weavile's main flaws are: its weak to every type of entry hazard (and takes 25% from SR), its abysmal defenses, and its terribly low move BP. It'd work okay but really any team built "decently" can take a hit from Weavile and OHKO in return.

I thought that was the standard Skarmory.

Ghost Lunis
December 4th, 2011, 03:51 PM
ah yes i forgot about entry hazards when i was talking about weaviles bad points

Kittyipawd
December 4th, 2011, 05:57 PM
Weavile's main flaws are: its weak to every type of entry hazard (and takes 25% from SR), its abysmal defenses, and its terribly low move BP. It'd work okay but really any team built "decently" can take a hit from Weavile and OHKO in return.

I thought that was the standard Skarmory.

No alot of skarmorys I see have speed invested lol. Skarm isn't as good as it used to be and alot of other pokemons set say skarm has to be the most defensive variant so I made the most defensive lol.

PlatinumDude
December 4th, 2011, 07:36 PM
No alot of skarmorys I see have speed invested lol. Skarm isn't as good as it used to be and alot of other pokemons set say skarm has to be the most defensive variant so I made the most defensive lol.

According to Skarmory's Smogon analysis, the 24 Speed EVs are in there so that it can outspeed max Speed Wobbuffet (who shows up in OU occasionally). That way, Skarmory can Taunt Wobbuffet before it can use Encore to lock it into Spikes.

Vrai
December 4th, 2011, 08:25 PM
According to Skarmory's Smogon analysis, the 24 Speed EVs are in there so that it can outspeed max Speed Wobbuffet (who shows up in OU occasionally). That way, Skarmory can Taunt Wobbuffet before it can use Encore to lock it into Spikes.

Physically, I think those 24 EVs are more or less negligable, too. It'd be a different story if outrunning Wobb meant like 80some EVs, but 24 is a small enough number to not really make an impact on Skarmory's defensive prowess.

Dark Azelf
December 4th, 2011, 10:11 PM
Physically, I think those 24 EVs are more or less negligable, too. It'd be a different story if outrunning Wobb meant like 80some EVs, but 24 is a small enough number to not really make an impact on Skarmory's defensive prowess.

^

Plus Skarm should never leave home without a Shed Shell anyway which lets its escape Wobb. Unless you also like getting crushed by Mag + Drag teams that are rather common this gen. :/ lol

Also Skarm is as good as its always been so i never buy into the whole "its not as good as it used to be" crap lol. It walls some key threats who have little to no other counters, see; Haxorus, SD Acrobat Gliscor, Landorus and the like. Plus its probably the most reliable Spiker in the game apart from maybe Deoxys (though that is arguable).

Ghost Lunis
December 5th, 2011, 02:58 PM
I keep switching skarm in and out of my team. Some days I like him and some i don't. He is a threat though and shouldn't be underestimated.

Forever
December 6th, 2011, 12:28 AM
I've never really used Skarmory that much tbh. I don't really use anything that sets up spikes/SR other than using Bronzong lately. I don't really see Skarmory as much of an issue though for me, since I have Rotom-W, Latios, etc (tbolt and hp fire).

Forever
December 6th, 2011, 04:22 AM
Yea ( just like scizor) the 4x weakness to fire is what makes me undecided on skarm. Plus I've found in my experience that if I use a more utility based pokemon outside of chansey I tend to lose a lot more. Of course my playstyle consists of heavy hitters, a rapid spinner and one staller. I like to kill of the hazard setter as quick as possible, spin away said hazards, then try to pull a train wreck on the other team.
Yea, I'm sure my strategy is flawed but that's my playstyle.

Actually, Skarm doesn't have a 4x weakness to fire. It's steel/flying, and flying isn't weak to fire. :x

Aaand I don't use spinners, I tend to just put up with hazards and just try to switch less if they're in. I'd much rather have my five offensive Pokemon than four and a spinner since they sorta balance each other out. :(

Ghost Lunis
December 6th, 2011, 04:29 AM
Gah i knew that, I feel so stupid. I was picturing ferrothorns weakness chart in my head. D'oh!
My spinner is Starmie and more or less it is a wonderful offensive threat as well. Great speed an attack movepool. I just hate the psychic part of Starmie.

vaporeon7
December 6th, 2011, 04:41 AM
I don't have a spinner. I can't really fit one in and anyway toxic spikes only affects two of my Pokemon and Stealth Rock is neutral or less on everything, Spikes is the only thing to really worry about.

Ghost Lunis
December 6th, 2011, 04:48 AM
I don't use a spinner on my uu team.
But on my ou, if I don't lead with 'nite, I don't want rocks to ruin multiscale an have to roost right off the bat.:/

.Gamer
December 6th, 2011, 05:22 PM
so im way too lazy to read all the thread, and im also thinking of coming back to mons (hi everyone, im still alive) give me a tl;dr version of what's standard in OU and/or UU. i'll appreciate it. thanks.

p.s. i realize smogon lists them, but i dont really want to look at usage stats and stuff because that's way too much effort for me.

Forever
December 6th, 2011, 05:59 PM
so im way too lazy to read all the thread, and im also thinking of coming back to mons (hi everyone, im still alive) give me a tl;dr version of what's standard in OU and/or UU. i'll appreciate it. thanks.

p.s. i realize smogon lists them, but i dont really want to look at usage stats and stuff because that's way too much effort for me.

WELL. Rotom-W/Scizor/Dragonite/Deoxys-S/Politoed/Ferrothorn/Terrakion/Latios/Haxorus. Those are probably most common tbh off the top of my head.

PlatinumDude
December 7th, 2011, 12:31 AM
Continuing the Rapid Spinner topic: I used to have Excadrill as a Rapid Spinner until it became Uber. Now my team doesn't have one, but I don't know which one to use.

Charliezard
December 7th, 2011, 02:25 AM
I haven't played enough to know if I want a rapid spinner or not. Currently I have one but eh, I've had like 3 battles total and 1 with this team. I plan on experimenting with numerous different teams but I need to give each one a fair go so it'll take me a while to decide how I like to play.

Ghost Lunis
December 7th, 2011, 05:56 PM
I just replaced rapid spin with grass knot on Starmie and had a few battles. Honestly, I didn't miss it at all.

On another note, has anyone else noticed an increase in donphan usage or is it just me?

vaporeon7
December 7th, 2011, 06:23 PM
With Deoxys-S banned now, there is one less reason for me to have Rapid Spin on my team, Spikes is starting to annoy me though.

Ghost Lunis
December 7th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Deoxys-s is officially banned? When did that happen?

Dark Azelf
December 7th, 2011, 07:22 PM
I just replaced rapid spin with grass knot on Starmie and had a few battles. Honestly, I didn't miss it at all.

On another note, has anyone else noticed an increase in donphan usage or is it just me?

Ive noticed it but Donphan sucks imo, it loses to the most common Spikers in the game (Ferro). Loses even worse to the most common ghosts (Gengar and Jellicent) and people just dont use it correctly and use Terrible Shard on it. Ice Shard has always been bad, it didnt beat Garchomp back in the day when phan was OU nor does it beat any other 4x weak dragon because its just so weak as in Max Attack Adamant Donphan cant even OHKO Min HP / Min Def Nite AFTER SR with it. Assurance is far better because then you can actually touch ghosts. Its also dead weight against any weather teams, loses horribly to all entry hazards bar SR. Just blegh. [/Phan rant]

As for Deoxys-S ive thought it was broken since round 1 to be honest. Stacked hazards with that speed and Taunt/Magic Coat is ridiculous. Also can anyone post conformation that it was actually banned, i know its suspect, but is it actually official ?

Cycle
December 7th, 2011, 07:32 PM
so are we ever gonna have clans or is it gonna be another one of those "we're going to do it things but we never do it" -_-

vaporeon7
December 7th, 2011, 07:41 PM
As for Deoxys-S ive thought it was broken since round 1 to be honest. Stacked hazards with that speed and Taunt/Magic Coat is ridiculous. Also can anyone post conformation that it was actually banned, i know its suspect, but is it actually official ?

Yeah I blogged about it with some proof. (http://www.pokecommunity.com/blog.php?b=12874)

Deoxys-S was always annoying for my team, the Taunting and Magic Coating really tore apart my team at the time and the fact that it doesn't go down to a slight breeze like Deoxys-A made it harder too.

Dark Azelf
December 7th, 2011, 07:44 PM
so are we ever gonna have clans or is it gonna be another one of those "we're going to do it things but we never do it" -_-

We are apparently, when Wolf and Anti get round to it. Also comm night is meant to be coming back.

@ Vap; Oh wow. O.O lol

.Gamer
December 7th, 2011, 10:38 PM
Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Toxic

Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Pain Split

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin


so i made a team today, with about 10-15 minutes of research and i tested in a few battles on the ladder, so far i havent had too much trouble, just want to know if there is any glaring weaknesses? had a bit of problems with conkledur or whatever that thing is, basically if latios cant set up, then i get killed to death by it. i assume you have a basic understanding of what each pokemon's role is in the team.

if you don't: heatran-set up hazards, stall stuff. scizor-scout, landorus-scout, latios-sweep, starmie-spin and kill things, rotom-kill things and support stuff.

Vrai
December 7th, 2011, 11:33 PM
Since no one seems to have actually confirmed it, Deo-S is indeed banned.

Anti
December 8th, 2011, 12:31 PM
1936 4271 7557 add my friend code and i add urs so we can battle on pokemon black or white just reply to post with me name and ur fc !! XD

Use the Quick Battle thread in the Tournaments and Events subforum for this. ;(

so are we ever gonna have clans or is it gonna be another one of those "we're going to do it things but we never do it" -_-

Well, Karpman has suddenly left PC, and he was one of the three clan leaders. We will have to replace him before it gets underway. There is no need to be pessimistic really - things will get done.

Ghost Lunis
December 8th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Is there a link to where I can read more about this clan thing?

.Gamer
December 8th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Oh God... clans....

Are we really doing those again?

Dark Azelf
December 8th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Oh God... clans....

Are we really doing those again?

They worked, sort of in the time you were gone lol.

Ghost Lunis
December 8th, 2011, 02:23 PM
I still wanna know what they are.lol

Dark Azelf
December 8th, 2011, 02:25 PM
I still wanna know what they are.lol

Groups of people who battle against each other, as in you are teams. You have wars vs other clans etc.

Neosquid
December 8th, 2011, 02:25 PM
One thing thats really pissing me off is how Swift Swim is banned with Drizzle...I mean, really? Now I cant run Swift Swim Armaldo and Politoed at the same time, at least in certain places.

Dark Azelf
December 8th, 2011, 02:29 PM
One thing thats really pissing me off is how Swift Swim is banned with Drizzle...I mean, really? Now I cant run Swift Swim Armaldo and Politoed at the same time, at least in certain places.

Swift Swim is far too powerful when drizzle is allowed the 50% STAB boost and double speed is just too much. It makes otherwise poor threats like Kabutops, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Omastar etc way too overpowered.

Plus i dont think SS Armaldo has even been released yet has it ?

Ghost Lunis
December 8th, 2011, 02:32 PM
Groups of people who battle against each other, as in you are teams. You have wars vs other clans etc.

Excelsior! I look forward to those!
And thank you.

Neosquid
December 8th, 2011, 02:55 PM
Swift Swim is far too powerful when drizzle is allowed the 50% STAB boost and double speed is just too much. It makes otherwise poor threats like Kabutops, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Omastar etc way too overpowered.

Plus i dont think SS Armaldo has even been released yet has it ?

Its been released.

Still, could they at least limit the ban to water types with Swift Swim?

Kittyipawd
December 8th, 2011, 02:57 PM
There are only going to be three clans meaning it cannot be submit to mod for approval to "make" a clan. If so then yesss. That always got really annoying back in 2007.

Dark Azelf
December 8th, 2011, 03:03 PM
Well id sooner have it back like 2007 even if it is a spammy mess. At least it was active. XD

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=6949576&postcount=18

Im also bringing this back.

Ghost Lunis
December 8th, 2011, 03:30 PM
Well id sooner have it back like 2007 even if it is a spammy mess. At least it was active. XD

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=6949576&postcount=18

Im also bringing this back.
as long as it can be done on wi-fi, i would love to do this as well.
I feel the more battling things PC has the better!

Dark Azelf
December 8th, 2011, 03:47 PM
as long as it can be done on wi-fi, i would love to do this as well.
I feel the more battling things PC has the better!

I may return to Wifi when i can be bothered too lol.

Also is it just me or is our PO server being sucky, as in it wont let you log in and/or wont let you type ?

Forever
December 8th, 2011, 04:09 PM
I may return to Wifi when i can be bothered too lol.

Also is it just me or is our PO server being sucky, as in it wont let you log in and/or wont let you type ?

Not just you! It's been like that since yesterday afternoon. I think I preferred when it didn't load at all than for the password screen to appear and being unable to do anything. :(

Miss Doronjo
December 8th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Huh...
I've been getting in there just fine with the Advanced Connection~ :x It even lets me type. (shrug)

EDIT: oh nvm. :x

.Gamer
December 8th, 2011, 05:06 PM
Its been released.

Still, could they at least limit the ban to water types with Swift Swim?

The only problem with that, is that then you open a pandora's box (blah blah slippery slope, I think we all know how the competitive mons community works) with other items. "Why not Brightpowder on Pokemon that don't have Sand Veil" etc.

Exile
December 8th, 2011, 07:19 PM
Here's the stuff for my clan (http://pastebin.com/aETy9GU6) if anyone wants to take it over.

Ooka
December 8th, 2011, 09:01 PM
Link isn't working for me. :P

Exile
December 8th, 2011, 10:36 PM
Link isn't working for me. :P

My b, should be fixed now.

Keiran
December 9th, 2011, 10:18 AM
as long as it can be done on wi-fi, i would love to do this as well.
I feel the more battling things PC has the better!

^^^Exactly this! Would love to battle more.

Cycle
December 9th, 2011, 05:51 PM
Could we do something like Smogon's CCAT? Idk, it just seems that we're so dead.

Dark Azelf
December 9th, 2011, 06:01 PM
We tried CCAT back in the day and it didnt work http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=89233&page=1, even though that thread had alot of good memories. I dont know, "what could go wrong?" lol.

Also, PC serve being down isnt helping so that needs to get back up -cough-. ._. lol

Anti
December 10th, 2011, 12:20 AM
Could we do something like Smogon's CCAT? Idk, it just seems that we're so dead.

I never like the "we're so inactive/dead" talk because it seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. It's typically much more productive to just work to make things more active (as something like a CCAT could do). I don't mean to nitpick at a suggestion post, but people have left because of defeatist tendencies before. Just food for thought I guess. :x

Anyhow, CCAT just depends on if people want to do it. I honestly don't think any problems from the thread D_A posted will come up again as I would like to think that we're significantly more mature and less prone to random flame wars (see: the last few pages of that thread) than before. I certainly don't have any problem with reviving a community team thing. We can always lock it if something goes horribly wrong (unlikely). It will probably be easier to tell if people want to do it once the server is back up. It's not like asking around is a requirement but it probably is a good idea to make sure that people actually want to do it so that we don't have another "let's make a CAP" thing going on, lol.

Ghost Lunis
December 10th, 2011, 06:56 AM
I think a CCAT would be a blast.
All we really need is someone with the time and creativity to set up an op. If you build it, they will come.

.Gamer
December 10th, 2011, 08:30 AM
hey, sorry to interrupt, but why is nobody ever on the server? it's saturday yo.

Forever
December 10th, 2011, 08:41 AM
hey, sorry to interrupt, but why is nobody ever on the server? it's saturday yo.

Uhhh because the server is down for most of us. Apparently it works for some but otherwise is down for the rest of us, so yeah. I'd be on but yeaaaaah no access.

vaporeon7
December 10th, 2011, 12:40 PM
Uhhh because the server is down for most of us. Apparently it works for some but otherwise is down for the rest of us, so yeah. I'd be on but yeaaaaah no access.

Yeah, I would have been too, but I can't get on either. It's amazing how some people refused to ever battle before, but now are regulars.

Ghost Lunis
December 10th, 2011, 02:19 PM
So what does everyone do on the pc po thing?
Trying to decide if I should look into it more.

vaporeon7
December 10th, 2011, 03:27 PM
So what does everyone do on the pc po thing?
Trying to decide if I should look into it more.

Pokemon Online is a battle simulator. You pretty much make teams, and battle with them. PC has a server on it.

Forever
December 11th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Oh hey server is back up idk for how long though, since nobody posted anything about it SO I CAN ASSUME it was offline all of today :3

Also lunis, you totally should use PO as Vapor explained, it's really awesome. :) We could use more regulars!

Ghost Lunis
December 11th, 2011, 07:48 AM
Oh hey server is back up idk for how long though, since nobody posted anything about it SO I CAN ASSUME it was offline all of today :3

Also lunis, you totally should use PO as Vapor explained, it's really awesome. :) We could use more regulars!

Ill check it out ^_^ though im sure ill need help, im not the greatest with computers. Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks, lol

Well im officially apart of PO. Now

Dark Azelf
December 11th, 2011, 10:39 AM
Everyone go on PO now cos its back up


Regards, Cute_Azelf

^____^

Keiran
December 11th, 2011, 02:15 PM
So Excadrill might get unbanned, I hear. O_O

Dark Azelf
December 11th, 2011, 02:19 PM
So Excadrill might get unbanned, I hear. O_O

Where did you hear that ? I kind of doubt it to be honest.

Vrai
December 11th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Where did you hear that ? I kind of doubt it to be honest.
Hi I'm a link to a thread relevant to this topic (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3458784).

Dark Azelf
December 11th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Hi I'm a link to a thread relevant to this topic (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3458784).

But thats dream world lol :s

Keiran
December 12th, 2011, 02:05 AM
http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?10445

I guess PO tiers are different than Smogon? /shrug, I don't know.

Kittyipawd
December 12th, 2011, 06:20 PM
2 questions. Is there any pokemon that hard counter hydration vaporeon and is thier a pokemon that beats all venasaur sets (or checks them) and can check rain teams? if not then a core of them.

Vena Sera
December 12th, 2011, 06:37 PM
2 questions. Is there any pokemon that hard counter hydration vaporeon and is thier a pokemon that beats all venasaur sets (or checks them) and can check rain teams? if not then a core of them.

Vaporeon usually has a hard time with guys like Ferrothorn and Skarmory, as Leech Seed wrecks it and it doesn't have anything to really hit Skarm with. Other bulky SpD-oriented pokes that can survive an Ice Beam or two will mess with it as well.

Unless it packs Earthquake or HP Fighting, Heatran can usually handle Venusaur, although Eviolite Chansey/Bliss may be a safer bet if it has a ground move.

PlatinumDude
December 12th, 2011, 07:01 PM
Vaporeon usually has a hard time with guys like Ferrothorn and Skarmory, as Leech Seed wrecks it and it doesn't have anything to really hit Skarm with. Other bulky SpD-oriented pokes that can survive an Ice Beam or two will mess with it as well.

Unless it packs Earthquake or HP Fighting, Heatran can usually handle Venusaur, although Eviolite Chansey/Bliss may be a safer bet if it has a ground move.

Doesn't Skarmory get hit pretty hard by a rain-boosted Scald from Vaporeon? (and possibly risk a burn from it)

Volcarona can handle Venusaur too, since it can set up Quiver Dance, then hit it hard with Fire Blast. It also has Hurricane if it's against a Rain team.

Vena Sera
December 12th, 2011, 07:09 PM
Doesn't Skarmory get hit pretty hard by a rain-boosted Scald from Vaporeon? (and possibly risk a burn from it)

Volcarona can handle Venusaur too, since it can set up Quiver Dance, then hit it hard with Fire Blast. It also has Hurricane if it's against a Rain team.

Aside from Scald/rain boost, Skarm can just phaze it out after.

Dark Azelf
December 12th, 2011, 11:49 PM
Skarm gets destroyed by rain boosted hits, really. Plus alot of Hydration Vaps have Work Up IIRC.

2 questions. Is there any pokemon that hard counter hydration vaporeon and is thier a pokemon that beats all venasaur sets (or checks them) and can check rain teams? if not then a core of them.

Uh grass types (Virizion, Ferro, Celebi, Shaymin [Natural Cure) and the like) and Rotom-W poop on Vappy. Taunt Jellicent outspeeds Vap and cant Taunt Toxics and Rests and wear Vap down. Sub Mind Latias can set up on Vappy as can Chesto Rest DD Kingdra. STalker Gyara can PHaze it and Rest off any and all damage. Or just change the weather back on predicted Rests. There is also Trick which ruins it.

Heatran and Chandelure wall p much all Venusaur sets without EQ which is exceedingly rare. Sp.Def Dragonite is annoying for it too and can wall even +2 LO Sludge Bomb with SR up iirc. If it lacks Sludge Bomb other dragons wall it too. Blissey/Chansey also beats it quite handily and Chansey walls even the Mix sets too. P2, Sp.Def Deoxys-D and Cress can work in a similar manner. You can also use ScarfTar to change the weather back, outspeed and crush it.

The usual anti weather stall core is Heatran, Gastrodon/Jellicent and Skarm irrc so you could try that.

Hape that helps a little.

Kittyipawd
December 13th, 2011, 03:32 PM
Skarm gets destroyed by rain boosted hits, really. Plus alot of Hydration Vaps have Work Up IIRC.



Uh grass types (Virizion, Ferro, Celebi, Shaymin [Natural Cure) and the like) and Rotom-W poop on Vappy. Taunt Jellicent outspeeds Vap and cant Taunt Toxics and Rests and wear Vap down. Sub Mind Latias can set up on Vappy as can Chesto Rest DD Kingdra. STalker Gyara can PHaze it and Rest off any and all damage. Or just change the weather back on predicted Rests. There is also Trick which ruins it.

Heatran and Chandelure wall p much all Venusaur sets without EQ which is exceedingly rare. Sp.Def Dragonite is annoying for it too and can wall even +2 LO Sludge Bomb with SR up iirc. If it lacks Sludge Bomb other dragons wall it too. Blissey/Chansey also beats it quite handily and Chansey walls even the Mix sets too. P2, Sp.Def Deoxys-D and Cress can work in a similar manner. You can also use ScarfTar to change the weather back, outspeed and crush it.

The usual anti weather stall core is Heatran, Gastrodon/Jellicent and Skarm irrc so you could try that.

Hape that helps a little.

I actually use that core ahahah. Chesto Rest Kingdra sounds interesting! I am also liking a celebi though I think I would do a Leftover Celebi with nasty plot and 3 attacks xD.

I am also liking the idea of Scarftar! Can you elaborate on those 3 sets please bud?

Dark Azelf
December 13th, 2011, 04:07 PM
I actually use that core ahahah. Chesto Rest Kingdra sounds interesting! I am also liking a celebi though I think I would do a Leftover Celebi with nasty plot and 3 attacks xD.

I am also liking the idea of Scarftar! Can you elaborate on those 3 sets please bud?

Tyranitar@Choice Scarf
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 6 HP
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- SuperPower

Standard ScarfTar. Useful vs Lati@s etc too.

Kingdra@ Chesto Berry
144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SpD / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
Trait : Swift Swim
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rest

Chesto Rest Kingdra. Id suggest Magnezone too to remove Ferrothorn.

Celebi@Leftovers / Life Orb
252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed / 6 HP
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power / Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Psychic

Yeah... Psychic hits Dragonite and Ep hits tran. HP Fire hits junk like Scizor so its up to you on what you use.

Enjoy.

FreakyLocz14
December 16th, 2011, 04:20 AM
I need to get into the hang of 5th Gen. Anyone interested in tutoring?

Webdemon
December 16th, 2011, 09:31 AM
What aspect of 5th Gen to you need help in? That question is a bit vague to me!

.Gamer
December 16th, 2011, 10:49 AM
It takes a while to compile!

wolf
December 16th, 2011, 01:30 PM
^ lol

We're working on a guide to competitive battling which will replace the Compiled Guides.

ShineyMaster
December 16th, 2011, 01:38 PM
Can anyone tell me where the Quick Battle thread is?

wolf
December 16th, 2011, 02:44 PM
Can anyone tell me where the Quick Battle thread is?
The thread is here (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=246217). I always thought it was buried too far in the sub-forum.

Ghost Lunis
December 17th, 2011, 03:56 PM
people, come to the pc po server, i feel alone!

Forever
December 17th, 2011, 04:08 PM
people, come to the pc po server, i feel alone!
Basically what happened is...

> Joins server
> Finds nobody
> Never talks to lunis again

tbh I join the server whenever I'm on the laptop. I just sometimes forget it's there. :(

Ghost Lunis
December 17th, 2011, 04:17 PM
"Never talks to lunis again" what? What did I do? Lol

Dark Azelf
December 19th, 2011, 05:55 PM
"Never talks to lunis again" what? What did I do? Lol

Nothing, Nica is just crazy, but in a good way of course. ;3

ALSO


CAN WE GO ON PO TO KEEP DARK_CUTEZELF AND OOKA COMPANY PEOPLE ? THANKZ. ^_^

yankee0724
December 20th, 2011, 10:44 AM
First login in nearly two weeks and here it is:

WHY IS NOBODY EVER ON THE SERVER WHEN I GO NO THERE?

I know you all cry when I'm never there. That's my reason.

Forever
December 21st, 2011, 01:35 AM
You guys aren't the only ones, as soon as it hits like... 1, or something, the server is inactive until I wake up the next day, tbh. At least most of your timezones match!

We should attract more people. :3

Kittyipawd
December 21st, 2011, 02:06 PM
So volbeat in ou is fun stuff

.Gamer
December 21st, 2011, 02:12 PM
server. now. everyone who can.

Forever
December 21st, 2011, 05:26 PM
So volbeat in ou is fun stuff

That scared me, omg. I thought you meant Volbeat MOVED to OU and then I was like "wtf that makes no sense... what other crazy changes did they make...", completely ignoring the fact that tier changes aren't til January, iirc. :(

But yeah, I haven't used it, what makes it fun?

Kittyipawd
December 22nd, 2011, 05:04 PM
Because passing a 2.5 boost is fun with priority though. Anyways can someone find a list of all things that learn Dual Screens and SR and Dual Screens and U-Turn/Voltswitch

Perrie ✿
December 22nd, 2011, 05:10 PM
Volbeat is pretty fun to use. I usually run Thunder Wave/Tail Glow/Baton Pass/Random non-taunt bait filler move. Thunder Wave -> Tail Glow -> Pass it on. It's by no means a top tier baton passer but it works well if done properly. :3

Ugh I see Gastrodon's everywhere now. :c

Forever
December 22nd, 2011, 05:53 PM
Uhh @ former: Deoxys-S could, so Deoxys-D can, Zong, Jirachi, Mew probably, etc. I just use Zong for it :)

Also nothing wrong with mass Gastrodon as long as you have a grass type. :x

Perrie ✿
December 22nd, 2011, 06:31 PM
Because passing a 2.5 boost is fun with priority though. Anyways can someone find a list of all things that learn Dual Screens and SR and Dual Screens and U-Turn/Voltswitch

Dual Screens and Stealth Rock;
Clefairy, Clefable, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Mew, Pineco, Forretress, Magcargo, Swinub, Piloswine, Corsola, Celebi, Lunatone, Solrock, Baltoy, Claydol, Metang, Metagross, Jirachi, Deoxys, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra, Bronzor, Bronzong, Mamoswine, Uxie, Azelf, Mesprit, Smeargle

Dual Screens and Volt Switch;
Magnemite, Magneton, Mew, Raikou, Forretress, Magnezone, Rotom (All forms), Smeargle

Dual Screens and U-turn;
Mew, Ledyba, Ledian, Natu, Xatu, Celebi, Jirachi, Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf, Manaphy, Woobat, Swoobat, Genesect and Smeargle.

I spent far too long doing that. Here's Serebii's moveset calculator for future use. :) click me etc (http://www.serebii.net/games/moveset-bw.shtml)

@Forever - But Grass-types usually don't have a space on my team. ))):

Crimson5M
December 22nd, 2011, 06:35 PM
Uhh @ former: Deoxys-S could, so Deoxys-D can, Zong, Jirachi, Mew probably, etc. I just use Zong for it :)

Also nothing wrong with mass Gastrodon as long as you have a grass type. :x

Deoxys-S is banned.

Anyway, speaking of bans, Snover and Abomasnow are now BL. In other words, Snow Warning is now gone in every tier but OU and Ubers.

Forever
December 22nd, 2011, 06:59 PM
I know, that's why I said "could", and everything else as "can", lol.

For some reason I don't think hail will be used as much, tbh. Because in UU it only had to contend with sand, but in OU it instantly has two other weather types and idk... I always view rain/sand/sun as superior /bias

dragonomega, that's such a sin! I haven't used a team lately without some sort of grass Pokemon, they're so useful :( go fix this rn!!

Perrie ✿
December 23rd, 2011, 05:55 AM
I know, that's why I said "could", and everything else as "can", lol.

For some reason I don't think hail will be used as much, tbh. Because in UU it only had to contend with sand, but in OU it instantly has two other weather types and idk... I always view rain/sand/sun as superior /bias

dragonomega, that's such a sin! I haven't used a team lately without some sort of grass Pokemon, they're so useful :( go fix this rn!!

;o; I put an SD Virizion into it. It works a bit better, however I haven't seen one Gastrodon... >: Quagsire and Swampert are a bit low as well. All I see are Lati@s, Tyranitar etc

I agree with the 'Hail won't be used' because it probably won't. Abomasnow is pretty much owned by all Weather starters, (Barr Politoed) and Hail doesn't have the best abusers. I really do think that Hail needs a new secondary effect than just minor damage every turn.

PlatinumDude
December 23rd, 2011, 05:59 AM
;o; I put an SD Virizion into it. It works a bit better, however I haven't seen one Gastrodon... >: Quagsire and Swampert are a bit low as well. All I see are Lati@s, Tyranitar etc

I agree with the 'Hail won't be used' because it probably won't. Abomasnow is pretty much owned by all Weather starters, (Barr Politoed) and Hail doesn't have the best abusers. I really do think that Hail needs a new secondary effect than just minor damage every turn.

A possible secondary effect of Hail that I've had in mind for some time could be that Ice Pokemon will receive a 1.5x boost to their Defense in Hail. What does anyone think?

Perrie ✿
December 23rd, 2011, 06:01 AM
A possible secondary effect of Hail that I've had in mind for some time could be that Ice Pokemon will receive a 1.5x boost to their Defense in Hail. What does anyone think?

I think that would be pretty nifty but Ice types aren't the best, defensive-wise. D: I guess a raise in speed, or offensive stats would be the best option?

Forever
December 23rd, 2011, 06:06 AM
Oh wow, just imagine Froslass w/ Snow Cloak in Hail, raising its evasion and its speed, perfect for a revenge killer!

...despite it being used mainly for spikes and stuff. :x

Vrai
December 23rd, 2011, 08:09 AM
Speaking of hail, Snow Warning was just banned in UU and below. :)

Forever
December 23rd, 2011, 08:22 AM
Yes Vrai that is why we were discussing it!

Why else would we randomly discuss the worst weather of all? :3

Crimson5M
December 23rd, 2011, 08:22 AM
Speaking of hail, Snow Warning was just banned in UU and below. :)

Yup. I already said that :)

Sucks they had to ban the most christmasy weather so near to christmas though.

.Gamer
December 23rd, 2011, 10:15 AM
Deoxys-S is banned.

Anyway, speaking of bans, Snover and Abomasnow are now BL. In other words, Snow Warning is now gone in every tier but OU and Ubers.

There is a God, and he is good.

Skip Shot
December 23rd, 2011, 10:31 AM
Well nice to see server is active as usual lolz

Anyways what have I missed over the past few months? I'm around for the holidays =)

Perrie ✿
December 23rd, 2011, 10:49 AM
Well nice to see server is active as usual lolz

Anyways what have I missed over the past few months? I'm around for the holidays =)

Quite a bit, I'd imagine, but I kinda wandered off from competitive battling so I missed a bit too. :x From what I gather, Excadrill, Thundurus & Deoxys-S are banned, along with Hail.

in other news i was asked for sexual favors on our PO server. :xx

Webdemon
December 23rd, 2011, 11:26 AM
Deoxys-S is banned.

Anyway, speaking of bans, Snover and Abomasnow are now BL. In other words, Snow Warning is now gone in every tier but OU and Ubers.


I have nothing to say to this. tourneyphaggotry strikes again

Other than I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Forever
December 23rd, 2011, 06:55 PM
Quite a bit, I'd imagine, but I kinda wandered off from competitive battling so I missed a bit too. :x From what I gather, Excadrill, Thundurus & Deoxys-S are banned, along with Hail.

in other news i was asked for sexual favors on our PO server. :xx

And Scizor is #1 in usage. AND RAIN WON'T GTFO. /all the necessary facts
(also you should specify, 'cause 3 are banned from OU and the other isn't :x)

Oh... and that "person" "regularly" does that... or at least every month. It's creepy.

vaporeon7
December 23rd, 2011, 07:07 PM
I can't see hail being used much anymore either. Abomasnow has too many counters and the fact that almost only ice types get a benefit from it, and ice is a horrible defensive typing. It's like why use hail when you can use sandstorm.

I really do think that Hail needs a new secondary effect than just minor damage every turn.
Hail needs to boost Ice's defence or special defence by 50% to compete with sandstorm imo.

PokeRaidenFighter350Z
December 23rd, 2011, 07:34 PM
Hail needs to boost Ice's defence or special defence by 50% to compete with sandstorm imo.

hail does activate a few abilities such as Snow Cloak(Raises evasion) and Ice Body (Restores little HP every turn). idk if i'm correct but doesn't hail guarantees Blizzard a strike on every turn?

Perrie ✿
December 23rd, 2011, 07:38 PM
hail does activate a few abilities such as Snow Cloak(Raises evasion) and Ice Body (Restores little HP every turn). idk if i'm correct but doesn't hail guarantees Blizzard a strike on every turn?

Yeah it does. But other weather abilities work without abilities. Like Sun powers up Fire moves, lowers Water damage and lets you instantly fire off Solarbeam. Rain lets Thunder and Hurricane have 100% accuracy and gives Water moves a rise in power and Fire moves a reduction and then Sand gives Rock-types 50% boosts to their special defense, Rock, Steel & Ground types take nil from the Sandstorm damage and there's the Solarbeam, Thunder & Hurricane accuracy cut that it brings.

PokeRaidenFighter350Z
December 23rd, 2011, 07:47 PM
well I have a Vileplume with Chlorophyll that has Sunny Day and Solarbeam... he's Timid natured and when he uses Sunny Day, his ability makes him faster than an Aerodactyl or Accelgor. i'm not a competitive player but doesn't this Vileplume make it seem something a competitive player wants?

PlatinumDude
December 23rd, 2011, 07:52 PM
well I have a Vileplume with Chlorophyll that has Sunny Day and Solarbeam... he's Timid natured and when he uses Sunny Day, his ability makes him faster than an Aerodactyl or Accelgor. i'm not a competitive player but doesn't this Vileplume make it seem something a competitive player wants?

Players don't really bother with Vileplume because it's seriously outclassed by Venusaur, who has higher Attack, Speed and bulk as well as a bit more of a move pool, allowing it to go mixed with Earthquake and/or Seed Bomb. Even Victreebel outclasses Vileplume due to it having Weather Ball and higher offensive stats (even with equal Special Attack to Vileplume)

vaporeon7
December 25th, 2011, 04:56 AM
hail does activate a few abilities such as Snow Cloak(Raises evasion) and Ice Body (Restores little HP every turn). idk if i'm correct but doesn't hail guarantees Blizzard a strike on every turn?

But all (not Shadow Sky or Fog, but meh to the) activate abilities like sun activating Solar Power, rain activating Rain Dish or sandstorm activating Sand Sand Veil. Hail just lacks anything to really make it stand out imo.

Also Nica and I had a hail team battle today for Christmas, it was obvious that our teams had more Pokemon to counter hail Pokemon then abusers themselves. The whole battle was pretty fail in all.

Forever
December 25th, 2011, 05:02 AM
Well actually, I just battled AlexOzzyCake with the same hail team and it actually did pretty well, lol. I dunno, I guess hail would suck against other weathers but in general I think it's "okay", except Abomasnow sucks. :)

Jirachi works great in hail tbh, because HAX IS USEFUL IN ALL WEATHERS /redeeming point

Overlord Drakow
December 25th, 2011, 06:53 AM
Obligatory post in CBC.

Jirachi works well pretty much anywhere in fairness Forever. Except maybe Sun lol.

Kaori
December 25th, 2011, 07:05 AM
WOW I'M IN CBC.

Jirachi is currently in my OU team, and I've used it before I decided to stop battling actively and it's always been an asset to my team pretty much. Jirachi ftw.

Hax is sooo annoying though. smh rn

90210
December 25th, 2011, 08:23 AM
I love Jirachi but never use one so I have no idea if it is good or not but based on what I see so far, it seems to be a good candidate for my future team :P

Maple Leaf
December 25th, 2011, 09:04 AM
WOW I'M IN CBC.
No way, me too! ;D

Back in my competitive battling days (they were lame), I liked using Jirachi. So, 90210, I would recommend it.

Miss Doronjo
December 25th, 2011, 09:34 AM
I use Jirachi for Screening. xD

It's Really good against Scizor and Tyranitar, the two pokemon which my old Deoxys kept getting killed by while screening.

I'm also trying out Uxie...it has really good defense!

Perrie ✿
December 25th, 2011, 11:27 AM
I hate using Jirachi and I hate facing them. :< I mean, I used to always use a Jirachi but now it seems every team carries a counter for one. If I do run one I use the Scarf set because the Hax set is too common. I like using Claydol as my screener/spinner. He's pretty bulky and has an interesting typing.

Vrai
December 25th, 2011, 11:35 AM
I can't see hail being used much anymore either. Abomasnow has too many counters and the fact that almost only ice types get a benefit from it, and ice is a horrible defensive typing. It's like why use hail when you can use sandstorm.


Hail needs to boost Ice's defence or special defence by 50% to compete with sandstorm imo.

hi, i know i'm kind of late but if you're playing hail defensively you're doing it wrong. hail should really just be purely offensive teams - and no, it's not that ice-types are the only beneficiaries. everything on an offensive team appreciates leftovers being negated, because as you said (or what i paraphrased from what you said), only ice-types ignore hail damage. hail's also really only good for making blizzard 100% accurate, plus it trolls with all of the other stupid weather teams going around lately (and abomasnow manhandles politoed). yes, it does have the least amount going for it compared to drizzle, drought, and sand stream, but hail definitely is the "dark horse" of weather.