PDA

View Full Version : "You're all fags"


Gymnotide
July 2nd, 2011, 09:00 PM
ITT: Were you outraged by the title?

How do you react when you hear slurs (whether sexuality-based or not) used in daily contexts (either as insults or derogatorily)? Do you feel insulted or do you just shrug it off (be honest here; I know a lot of people lie about this)? Do you ever want to do something about it? Do you ever actually do something? How do you feel when they are used jokingly, or endearingly?

- - - - -

Personally, I feel like too many people are especially keen on being politically correct. They jump when they hear the words and react in some way--whether by vocalizing or growing awkwardly silent. I absolutely hate it when I walk into a room and suddenly people prop up their speech and stop saying "fag," even though I know they say it in every other instance. It doesn't change a thing if you stop staying it around me--you're still saying it. I don't even care if you say "that movie was gay," but it does annoy me when other people make a big deal about it.

I feel like the people who outwardly oppose the use of these words are sort of pretentious. They glorify the word; and even though many say "if they use that sort of vocabulary, they aren't even worth talking to" it's obvious they have a hard time following through. I just don't get why you care. Words are just words... And I don't understand why they're made taboo. What's the big deal?

Alley Cat
July 2nd, 2011, 09:26 PM
There are reasons behind people not liking these terms being used.

To say that a stupid movie is "gay" is too say that gay is stupid. That isn't exactly what I'd like to hear from people. Oh, this movie was stupid, so it's gay. Well, I'm gay, does that make me a stupid movie? Well, again, what if I said, "this movie is so straight!" about the movie I hated most? First of all, people would probably assume it to be a good thing, thereby denoting that straight is good and gay is bad. Secondly, if taken as an insult, it would be a controversial one and straight people would start to get really offended about it. I understand the reasons behind why people might get offended. I don't, really. But that's only because I'm so used to hearing this everyday, that it just doesn't phase me anymore. I honestly couldn't even still be hurt by this, or I would be an over sensitive person.

Part of what makes what someone saying be offensive is the tone that they use saying it. If someone says something in a negative, aggressive tone, then you are most likely going to take it a negative way that is made to be an attack against you. But if someone says that same thing in a joking, friendly manner. Then you don't feel as offended, because you can tell that didn't mean any offense, they were just making a joke that they thought was funny. & When the joke turns out to be something that offends them, they're still the type of person who would still be telling that joke. A little humility and the ability to take a joke is very valued in this community.

Words are strong and have power. I admit, some people take things WAY too far. Some people push the boundaries with their offensives words and terms. Some people DO say it to be offensive. But a lot of people don't. A lot of people have no intention of hurting ANYONE'S feelings. It's part of our society and are the slang words of today, I hear plenty of Gay and Bisexual people using these words. In fact, many have adopted the word "Queer" and started using it themselves, that it really isn't and offensive term anymore. It just means, weird and different, in a good way. They turned that term right around.

It is kind of two-way bridge on offensive words and terms. It is only offensive if you find it as such. If you learn to let things go and let people say as they please, then those words won't hurt you. Because let's face, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never(READ: should never) hurt me. They are just words, and while they can be powerful, one person's bad opinion to you shouldn't mean the end of the world. People are always going to find something to be prejudice about, so you might as well as get used to it.

That starred out word, if you don't know is the extended version of fag.[/FONT]

Gumball Watterson
July 2nd, 2011, 09:45 PM
Actually, first thought from title was "Gymny's a gonna be B&'d"

I consider those derogatory terms as ambiguous, and therefore I interpret other's meaning and usage. I'm not one to use those terms derogatively unless I'm completely out of it and enraged. Twittergate

So normally I try to respect the meaning of the terms, but I won't lie that I've abused them before.

Gymnotide
July 2nd, 2011, 09:50 PM
I can read exactly zero words of your post. I-I don't think I'm going to tr-- Err.

However, I'd like to add that it also annoys me when someone unwittingly calls something "gay" and someone else, knowing that I am there, calls the first person out on it. I feel that's completely unnecessary; I neither need you to defend me nor will it actually prove anything (other than the fact that he / she is more conscious than I am).

Alley Cat
July 2nd, 2011, 09:55 PM
I cleaned it up all nice and tidy for you. Time for a font change if I'm gonna be in heavy debates, I suppose.

But if I do actually know what your saying, then yes I agree. I'm gay, and I'm not offended. No one has the right to get offended for me. If your straight, you really shouldn't be calling people out on those terms being thrown around. They don't offend you, or at least shouldn't.

Alice
July 2nd, 2011, 10:07 PM
Nah, didn't bother me. I was just coming in to watch the show... but sadly, no one got banned.

I do dislike swearing in general, but honestly, I think if people get mad about something saying that something stupid is 'gay' being the same as calling gays stupid (To use the same analogy as Alley Cat), they're just over thinking things, and being overly sensitive.

Myles
July 2nd, 2011, 10:09 PM
Firstly, Alley Cat's etymology of the word 'fag' is an urban legend and England (a.k.a. the place English came from) never burned gay people, they hanged them.

I don't like it when people use slurs (particularly racial slurs) if they don't have N-word privileges. The problem isn't so much the words as the fact that they're used pejoratively, even calling an object gay is pejorative. Which is why in that context it's offensive when otherwise it usually isn't.

As for why words are made taboo (although honestly I don't have a problem if people swear around me), it's because of their etymology. Someone doesn't just say 'jap' is offensive. It's because articles like this existed that used the word, en masse: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932034,00.html (yes, that article is telling you how to tell if someone is of Japanese heritage so you can shun them).

Alley Cat
July 2nd, 2011, 10:16 PM
Firstly, Alley Cat's etymology of the word 'fag' is an urErban legend and England (a.k.a. the place English came from) never burned gay people, they hanged them.

I don't like it when people use slurs (particularly racial slurs) if they don't have N-word privileges. The problem isn't so much the words as the fact that they're used pejoratively, even calling an object gay is pejorative. Which is why in that context it's offensive when otherwise it usually isn't.

As for why words are made taboo (although honestly I don't have a problem if people swear around me), it's because of their etymology. Someone doesn't just say 'jap' is offensive. It's because articles like this existed that used the word, en masse: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932034,00.html (yes, that article is telling you how to tell if someone is of Japanese heritage so you can shun them).

Er. Then I apologize for misinformation, that is what my history teacher informed me to be true. I looked it up for myself this time, thanks.

But, it's perfectly fine to use racial/gender/whatever slurs if you are using them in a discussion, and not directing them at anyone in a negative manner. It's discussion, and in some cases I find it perfectly fine using those words. But if you still feel uncomfortable using them, then there always alternatives. Prejudice words change and grow. There will always be words that mean the same thing as "fag" or the "n-word." Maybe not the same words, maybe not even similar, but there will be rise to them, and they will have the same meanings. There is really no killing off prejudice, so the best solution is to not let it get to you.

Team Fail
July 2nd, 2011, 10:25 PM
When I first read the title, I thought, "Someone is going to be offended, seeing as that is a strong term to use freely."

How do you react when you hear slurs (whether sexuality-based or not) used in daily contexts (either as insults or derogatorily)?

I find that it isn't the nicest thing to do, because you never know who is listening. Using a term like so in daily context could offend those around them.

\hard to word what I want to say.

FreakyLocz14
July 3rd, 2011, 02:53 AM
If they weren't directed at anybody, I don't care at all. I make racist/offensive jokes all the time, and so do my friends and family.

JimJams
July 3rd, 2011, 03:23 AM
Well, my boyfriend (and many of my friends) and I call each other fags all the time, so I'm usually fine with that one, and will laugh if someone tries to use it in a derogatory way.

However, I do feel offended when people who know absolutely nothing about transsexuality or gender variance in general use slurs in casual conversation such as 'Tranny' 'He-she', etc. Also using these terms interchangeably to refer to cross dressers and drag performers.

I also cringe when people who do know that I'm transgender and a little bit about it use those terms to refer to me in a lighthearted way, because I don't identify as a transgender person so much as I do a man. In fact I tend to occasionally forget that I'm even trans and not just a regular cisgender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender) guy.. So I'm unlike a lot of trans folks in that sense I guess.

Blue Nocturne
July 3rd, 2011, 05:56 AM
I have no problem with people calling me a fag. Frankly I find it entertaining that the only thing they can find to try and get at me is something that I'm proud of.

What does annoy me is when people use terms like 'gay' to describe pretty much everything that is bad. See Alley Cats post.

Azonic
July 3rd, 2011, 08:11 AM
Yeah it does, if it's used in a derogatory manner. Of course, you can still say these words as a friendly joke and I wouldn't have a problem.

I also hate it when people defend themselves by saying "oh well i didnt really mean it like in a homosexual sense, gay just means stupid". Lots of people in the music business say that. Tyler the Creator, smh.

Alley Cat
July 3rd, 2011, 08:15 AM
I also hate it when people defend themselves by saying "oh well i didnt really mean it like in a homosexual sense, gay just means stupid". Lots of people in the music business say that. Tyler the Creator, smh.

Then they don't realize that it is the fact that they are saying gay means stupid is what is being offensive. Because it doesn't. People who say that, practically just called everyone who is gay, stupid.

Cassino
July 3rd, 2011, 08:43 AM
I don't really react to any of these things. They're often merely the older non-euphemised versions of words we say anyway (eg. coon > negro > black > coloured); I'm not sure how they came to be offensive, but find it funny that they did regardless.

PkMnTrainer Yellow
July 3rd, 2011, 09:38 AM
They tend to irritate me when used excessively, because it says something bad about the person doing it as with all known offensive words. However, generally I just ignore the double meaning.

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~
July 3rd, 2011, 09:47 AM
I wasn't annoyed by the title, because if you really meant it the thread would have been closed.

Anyways..

When I hear slurs (such as sexual-based) I just go with it, it's not my fault...it's part of street talk where I'm from. But if it's a racial slur, its different (unless if its a joke). I have a couple of gay friends that even say "You are acting gay" or "thats really gay" and they mean stupid. It depends on where you are living at, many people (including gays themselves) will use the word "gay" as being "stupid".


:t354:TG

インフェルノの津波
July 3rd, 2011, 10:22 AM
No I was actually laughing, because people use it so much these days why even bother caring anymore? I always laugh when someone, or myself curses. It doesn't bother me.

But stuff like fag, *****, **** and all the rest get me annoyed. Why do you need to resort to derogatory terms? Come on, if you really want to insult someone get their bank account number. Words don't exactly hurt me as you can tell.

Freedom Fighter N
July 3rd, 2011, 10:26 AM
I don't really care, but I'd rather not be around people who swear too much. God will be angry at them.

The Prince of Sweet Sorrow
July 3rd, 2011, 10:42 AM
I troll back, even if it's not according to my personality, because I find it fun how these jerks waste their time hating. lol

Esper
July 3rd, 2011, 11:06 AM
I don't like people using it in ignorance of the hatred they're spewing and I also don't like people using it to stir up trouble or as an excuse to talk about how they don't like 'political correctness.'

.Fenris
July 3rd, 2011, 11:23 AM
In all honesty, I was going to write 'Please go hang yourself' until I noticed the quotation marks, if that tells you my stance on using slurs for insults. As for teasing people of that group with a slur and they know you're teasing, then whatever.

Crimson5M
July 3rd, 2011, 11:50 AM
I'm not sure if the staff will feel the same way, so I'm not going to say any of these words just in case.
As long as it isn't being used to directly offend someone, it doesn't matter. I've heard gay people say the f word, I've heard black people use the n word (especially some rappers), so it honestly doesn't matter. If you walk up to someone that is gay and call them the f word, it could be deemed offensive, however.

Livewire
July 3rd, 2011, 01:14 PM
Uhhhhh yeah. Saw this and almost flipped. I'll let this one slide, Gym, since we have a decent discussion here. Don't do it again please.

It varies. Some people are deeply offened by mere mention of the word, others only get offended if it's directed at a person, and others still don't even care. So it's hard to find common ground on what's truely offensive.

Romantica
July 3rd, 2011, 01:28 PM
Doesn't bother me, I use that word among many others at myself and friends. I've never used any of those words out of hate or to degrade anyone though. Maybe it'd be different if I myself were gay. Nah, probably not.

Cherrim
July 3rd, 2011, 01:50 PM
I'm kinda weird. If I'm on the internet and everyone's anonymous or the slur isn't directed at anyone in particular (or anyone I know), I tend to just glance over it and not even care. I'll even joke about it sometimes. But I'm also one of the most politically correct people I know. :\ If I'm in an unfamiliar situation or not alone with friends, I'll go out of my way to be as unoffensive as possible.

I do think society itself is getting a bit too politically correct, but I'll take that over hatred and bigotry coming from everywhere. I wish it were easier to walk a middle ground, though. I have no problem with words or language evolving to mean something different from its original meaning. Like I'm pretty okay with people saying "this is gay" and meaning the situation sucks, but everyone sort of has to accept the new meaning and so long as people get offended by things like that (and I can understand why they do, not putting anyone down over it [see what I mean about my political correctness? D:]), there will be a section of the population that feels the need for political correctness.

FreakyLocz14
July 3rd, 2011, 02:14 PM
I'm kinda weird. If I'm on the internet and everyone's anonymous or the slur isn't directed at anyone in particular (or anyone I know), I tend to just glance over it and not even care. I'll even joke about it sometimes. But I'm also one of the most politically correct people I know. :\ If I'm in an unfamiliar situation or not alone with friends, I'll go out of my way to be as unoffensive as possible.

I do think society itself is getting a bit too politically correct, but I'll take that over hatred and bigotry coming from everywhere. I wish it were easier to walk a middle ground, though. I have no problem with words or language evolving to mean something different from its original meaning. Like I'm pretty okay with people saying "this is gay" and meaning the situation sucks, but everyone sort of has to accept the new meaning and so long as people get offended by things like that (and I can understand why they do, not putting anyone down over it [see what I mean about my political correctness? D:]), there will be a section of the population that feels the need for political correctness.

I'm against political corectness. While I don't go out of my to offend people or groups, I'm also not the type of person to filter my speech out of fear that it might offend someone who is easily offended.

Gymnotide
July 3rd, 2011, 03:52 PM
I'm kinda weird. If I'm on the internet and everyone's anonymous or the slur isn't directed at anyone in particular (or anyone I know), I tend to just glance over it and not even care. I'll even joke about it sometimes. But I'm also one of the most politically correct people I know. :\ If I'm in an unfamiliar situation or not alone with friends, I'll go out of my way to be as unoffensive as possible.

I do think society itself is getting a bit too politically correct, but I'll take that over hatred and bigotry coming from everywhere. I wish it were easier to walk a middle ground, though. I have no problem with words or language evolving to mean something different from its original meaning. Like I'm pretty okay with people saying "this is gay" and meaning the situation sucks, but everyone sort of has to accept the new meaning and so long as people get offended by things like that (and I can understand why they do, not putting anyone down over it [see what I mean about my political correctness? D:]), there will be a section of the population that feels the need for political correctness.

Agreed on the bold. Definitely.

Uhhhhh yeah. Saw this and almost flipped. I'll let this one slide, Gym, since we have a decent discussion here. Don't do it again please.

It varies. Some people are deeply offened by mere mention of the word, others only get offended if it's directed at a person, and others still don't even care. So it's hard to find common ground on what's truely offensive.

Don't worry about it. Gymnotide is a quality poster <3
lol But quotation marks are funny.

TRIFORCE89
July 3rd, 2011, 04:06 PM
I just *sigh*. No point in lecturing the offender, I won't get them to change.

Livewire
July 6th, 2011, 06:59 AM
I'm against political corectness. While I don't go out of my to offend people or groups, I'm also not the type of person to filter my speech out of fear that it might offend someone who is easily offended.

Why do you automatically assume that Political correctness means you're censoring yourself? Becuase that's far from it.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 07:16 AM
Why do you automatically assume that Political correctness means you're censoring yourself? Becuase that's far from it.

Indeed. It's just about being respectful. Unfortunately, people don't seem to understand that.

Patchisou Yutohru
July 6th, 2011, 09:19 AM
I get offended, even if it doesn't relate to me, by any bigot remark. I hate racial slurs, I hate when someone tosses the word gay around at anything they dislike, I hate derogatory comments... they're all just things I find very difficult to tolerate.

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
July 6th, 2011, 09:29 AM
I'm against political corectness. While I don't go out of my to offend people or groups, I'm also not the type of person to filter my speech out of fear that it might offend someone who is easily offended.

Good luck getting your butt kicked. It's not about being "politically correct". It's about respect and solidarity for other's emotions.

marz
July 6th, 2011, 11:48 AM
I want to address a term that often goes overlooked and that is never deemed as a bad term because it is used for the "norm" of society: straight. Straight has a very bad connotation because it suggests that being heterosexual is the correct way to be, suggesting that being homosexual is bent and not correct.

In fact, change the name to this thread to "You're all straight" and see what happens. The same amount of homosexuals will come in with the same views they did for the original title, but far less heterosexuals will be offended or have an opinion they want to share.

Masqueraine
July 6th, 2011, 03:44 PM
I want to address a term that often goes overlooked and that is never deemed as a bad term because it is used for the "norm" of society: straight. Straight has a very bad connotation because it suggests that being heterosexual is the correct way to be, suggesting that being homosexual is bent and not correct.

What's wrong with being bent?

In fact, change the name to this thread to "You're all straight" and see what happens. The same amount of homosexuals will come in with the same views they did for the original title, but far less heterosexuals will be offended or have an opinion they want to share.

Well it makes sense. If the title was "You're all straight" a straight person would probably be like, "Oh. Okay." whereas a gay person would come in to say "Actually, I'm gay please don't assume kthnx!".

Personally, I'm not offended and I'm gay. Maybe people need to not be so sensitive and give whoever called somebody a fag the satisfaction that they want, because that just gives them incentive to keep on doing it.

Myles
July 7th, 2011, 06:04 AM
I want to address a term that often goes overlooked and that is never deemed as a bad term because it is used for the "norm" of society: straight. Straight has a very bad connotation because it suggests that being heterosexual is the correct way to be, suggesting that being homosexual is bent and not correct.

In fact, change the name to this thread to "You're all straight" and see what happens. The same amount of homosexuals will come in with the same views they did for the original title, but far less heterosexuals will be offended or have an opinion they want to share.

Actually the word 'straight' was started in the LGBT community to mean 'ex-gay' (yeah...), but now has the meaning heterosexual. Regardless of etymology, it isn't offensive and I don't think you would get that response.

Gothitelle.
July 7th, 2011, 06:10 AM
Doesn't bother me. I think that words like "gay" have many definitions. I just use it as a replacement for dumb like "that's so gay" or "your being gay".

It's just a fun way of saying things.

Kiyoshi the Polar Bear
July 7th, 2011, 06:39 AM
Honestly my first thought seeing the title was "this is going to be a discussion on the common usage of gay, etc. as a synonym to lame, bogus, dumb, etc. or probably something along those lines."

And thus this thread proves my psychic abilities.

Getting to the topic,
You know what? Unless it's being used in a harmful context, I don't care.
It makes the person saying it look absolutely moronic, and if I confront and flip out when it was used harmlessly, I look like a hyper-sensitive prick.

If a person is in danger and it's being used to express hatred, then I will come to aid. Otherwise, it's pointless intervening.

And I'd have to agree with what you said Gymnotide, pertaining to someone of minority coming into the room and everyone cleans up language to not offend. Although that's considerate in its own way, it makes the person feel more of a hindrance to the way you talk and it amplifies the "you're different" feeling that I'm sure they're sick of by now.
The best way to fix this problem is to understand where that person stands on the subject. And if they're hyper-sensitive and extremely defensive, they're probably not the kind of friend someone would want anyway. If they're in for understanding each other, I'm sure you can come to some sort of agreement that benefits both parties.

Esper
July 7th, 2011, 08:55 AM
And I'd have to agree with what you said Gymnotide, pertaining to someone of minority coming into the room and everyone cleans up language to not offend. Although that's considerate in its own way, it makes the person feel more of a hindrance to the way you talk and it amplifies the "you're different" feeling that I'm sure they're sick of by now.
It's not an ideal situation, no, but it's better than if the people continued speaking offensively, knowing that someone in the room was being offended or would likely be offended. Of course, it would be better if people didn't speak offensively or give off the "you're different" vibe in the first place. It's not like we have to accept that people are going to always treat others as "different" like it's some unchangable part of our DNA. It only takes a little understanding and kindness to get to the point where we don't make or feel the need to make off-color comments about someone's sexuality, race, etc.

Townes
July 7th, 2011, 08:58 AM
I typically find it very ignorant and upsetting when people use insults based on sexuality, race, religion, etc. because of the fact that for many things, used here as Sexuality based slurs, it's who someone is and to use that as an insult is tremendously infuriating, and it shows you don;t have the intelligence or compassion for your fellow man- both to insult anyone in the first place and then insult an entire group of people by using that insult!

Kiyoshi the Polar Bear
July 7th, 2011, 09:15 AM
It's not an ideal situation, no, but it's better than if the people continued speaking offensively, knowing that someone in the room was being offended or would likely be offended. Of course, it would be better if people didn't speak offensively or give off the "you're different" vibe in the first place. It's not like we have to accept that people are going to always treat others as "different" like it's some unchangable part of our DNA. It only takes a little understanding and kindness to get to the point where we don't make or feel the need to make off-color comments about someone's sexuality, race, etc.

You make a good point.

Thinking about other solutions, it begs to show that the situation, as a whole, is very much odd.
If a person does make a "gay, whatever" comment when someone in the room is gay, whatever, it makes someone feel alienated.
If they hold it in to not offend, it gives the same effect.

So, your last sentence there, seems to be the only real remedy for it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

dante1w
July 7th, 2011, 11:37 AM
tbh, i hate it ! And yes i have done something about it. I have a friend who is gay. tbh, he's my best friend. This one time, we had been saving money for a month, and went on this long road trip just for fun. Of course, my friends dresses funny. I don't mind cause i never actually cared about looks, and i don't believe in feeling embaressed travellig with someone who dresses weird. We stopped at a gas station, and a couple guys called him a "fagget" ! My friend looked at him, then turned away and said lets go ! We walked away trying to avoid it, yet our attempt failed. One of the guys said something like: "Yeah walk away freak, wouldn't want your cute face to get cut no would you, leave with your faggy friend". I wasn't annoyed by them insulting me, but by how they could actually make fun of someone cause he's gay. I turned around and threw a couple swears. There were 5 of them, and two of us. A fight started quickly cause they can't let their 'dignity' get hurt. I personally gor beat up bad, and my friend was hurt bad too. I felt soooooooo good. Regardless, we had a great road trip, and didn't talk about what happened since. Personally, i'm pretty sure what happened tightened our bond. A LOT !! And i would be more than ready to do it again and again. Some people just annoy me.

wcdaily
July 11th, 2011, 09:59 PM
Doesn't bother me. I think that words like "gay" have many definitions. I just use it as a replacement for dumb like "that's so gay" or "your being gay".

It's just a fun way of saying things.
If It offended someone I wouldn't see it as a "fun way to say things."

Melody
July 16th, 2011, 09:38 PM
Well, my boyfriend (and many of my friends) and I call each other fags all the time, so I'm usually fine with that one, and will laugh if someone tries to use it in a derogatory way.

However, I do feel offended when people who know absolutely nothing about transsexuality or gender variance in general use slurs in casual conversation such as 'Tranny' 'He-she', etc. Also using these terms interchangeably to refer to cross dressers and drag performers.

I also cringe when people who do know that I'm transgender and a little bit about it use those terms to refer to me in a lighthearted way, because I don't identify as a transgender person so much as I do a man. In fact I tend to occasionally forget that I'm even trans and not just a regular cisgender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender) guy.. So I'm unlike a lot of trans folks in that sense I guess.

I feel the same way, being someone who identifies with both genders. It's not like I'm uncomfortable in my own body, but I don't feel strongly either way, and I enjoy expressing one way or other depending on who I am around. I know what it's like to forget I'm not "normal" in that sense.

I tend to dislike it when people throw slurs like that around in a pejorative way. It's not necessary to demean people like that. I also don't like it when someone explodes because someone used a slur or epithet in a real discussion to refer to something else, or to describe the type of person who DOES fit the word or phrases' meaning, and didn't use it to insult a group of people or someone, or imply that such a person exists.

Words are words, and while they don't break real bones, or leave real cuts or bruises...they still do damage, on the mental and emotional level. They should be respected as you would respect any non-lethal weapon, without being ridiculous or overly zealous.

Personally, I don't tolerate my friends using such slurs on me. It isn't cool, not even if you're jesting. It's fine if you're having a mature discussion though. My real friends know who I am in both senses though.


tl;dr:
I'm all for Political Correctness, just don't take it too far. There's an appropriate time to be PC, and there's times when it's not necessary as well. It's foolish to be offended by lack of PC when it wasn't necessary in the first place.

A Pixy
July 17th, 2011, 04:22 AM
Hmm...

Considering I watch this:

C0fk8nTY_LE

I don't even care.

Gold warehouse
July 17th, 2011, 08:57 AM
I freely use all derogatory terms, swears and slurs that I know. It's not directed at anybody and anyone who gets offended over a word just needs to chill out. I make racist jokes with black friends, whites are horrified. Me and my gay friend call other fags all the time, straights are horrified. And yet I'll be the first to stand up for anyone of any sexuality, race, religion etc. in a serious debate.

tehGDS
July 17th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Well I wouldn't be offended at all : ) if you're my friends lol, especially those if you joke around with me a lot! Lol even if you're the nice one all the time, and you just said that, I would look at you then laugh it off, since that was random lol, but if you're a random person.. then um no I would give you mean things about you that you never have noticed before, since I'm brutal if you want lol

and Fireworks of course lol, if you have a person walk up to you and say you're a ~badword~ then um wouldn't you get offended too? Lol

wcdaily
July 18th, 2011, 07:38 AM
If it was just a random person came up to me and called me a cuss word, I would just laugh because it was random, and they are most likely trolling.

Snow Phoenix
July 18th, 2011, 08:57 AM
Well quite frankly a word loses meaning like that. If you don't put any feeling behind it then it's just a word and that's how it is in most cases.

I personally try to avoid them. On the outward front, I'd claim that I'm too good to stoop that low. However, in actuality... I just want to avoid conflict ^-^' It also just makes me frown.

RetardRaichu
July 18th, 2011, 03:39 PM
Well I dislike anything that has to do with certain body parts or a -philia or stoof, but I actually like it when people call things "gay" or "bi" because really, how long have gay people been around? And have they done anything positive except for cause a lot of rioting and them protesting for rights and to be treated normal.
I say they should go to re-orientation camps, no matter how bad they may be.. It's disgusting. And I don't hear gay people calling straight people disgusting..

Mr. X
July 18th, 2011, 05:52 PM
All just words. The words are not wrong, its the people that use them.

Gymnotide
July 19th, 2011, 04:52 PM
All just words. The words are not wrong, its the people that use them.

But what qualifies "wrong" usage? Is it all usage, or hostile usage?
And isn't this easier to say than actually follow through on in the end?

Mr. X
July 19th, 2011, 04:57 PM
A word means only what people assign to it.

Rafmat. Guess what, this means meat. Why? Because I say it does.


Thats how all words are. Just a collection of letters that someone assigned a meaning to. How the word is used means nothing. All that matters is what people beleive it to mean.

Gymnotide
July 19th, 2011, 05:19 PM
A word means only what people assign to it.

Rafmat. Guess what, this means meat. Why? Because I say it does.


Thats how all words are. Just a collection of letters that someone assigned a meaning to. How the word is used means nothing. All that matters is what people beleive it to mean.

I understand that, but does that put blame on the person uttering the word, or the person offended?

Mr. X
July 19th, 2011, 07:51 PM
Both.

Personally, I believe that gay and fags will have entirely diffrent meanings in around 30 or 40 years. And yes, this statement is just to get past the character limit.

-ty-
July 19th, 2011, 08:02 PM
Well say that you replaced "fags" with the infamous "n-word". Yeah, our culture has bombarded us to never actually say the n-word therefor, as you can see I am wired to be afraid to say the n word. With fags, I hear people use that as an insult, and no one in looks over and is like you said the f word, well not ****, but the other f-word. More and more you also hear people say " this is gay" in place of "this sucks". Being a gay guy it kind of offends me, but I try to place it in context, they mean to say "this sucks" or "you are all losers" rather than " you are all fags". But I will actually become offended if you went up to me and said "you're a fag" and the intention is to mean "you are an abomination, disgusting, sexual deviant..." But yeah, it is not the phrasing as much as the way they say it. Props to anyone who can understand my jumbled thoughts.

Mr. X
July 19th, 2011, 08:14 PM
I have a joke about fag (The word, not the meaning) but I can't tell it.

As for the infamous N-Word, its hipocritical. Blacks can use it without fear. Other people can't. (There was a black guy in one of my classes. He shouted that word every chance. He also conned me into joining NWA which is basicly N-words With Attitude... And im white.)

Gymnotide
July 19th, 2011, 09:26 PM
I have a joke about fag (The word, not the meaning) but I can't tell it.

As for the infamous N-Word, its hipocritical. Blacks can use it without fear. Other people can't. (There was a black guy in one of my classes. He shouted that word every chance. He also conned me into joining NWA which is basicly N-words With Attitude... And im white.)

I know plenty of gay people who say "fag" all the time too, though.

FreakyLocz14
July 19th, 2011, 09:44 PM
I cringe at homosexuals referring to themselves with slurs the same as I cringe at black people doing it.

Gymnotide
July 20th, 2011, 12:17 AM
I tend not to mind either, actually.
Though, it's not always self-referential. Still the same though.

Shadow_Angel
July 23rd, 2011, 07:21 PM
.I was mad at this title, I'll be honest. The use of this word 'fag', it's used quite among the society. I go on Youtube. I see it all the time, on Justin Bieber videos or other videos. And it's annoying and useless. I just don't like the word.

Corvus of the Black Night
July 23rd, 2011, 07:41 PM
All just words. The words are not wrong, its the people that use them.

People need to just remember this.

When 12 year old boys use the word on COD, they just prove that they're losers that can't think of another word.

When people with hatred against the homosexual use it then it has a more sinister meaning.

Actually, I think that many people younger don't even know what the word means. I didn't know what it meant until I was 16-ish and even then I picked up the word from other people that may or may not have known what it meant. I've stopped using it since unless paired with another word that disqualifies the homosexual attribute, like "phobofag" for a little twist D:

Cirrus
July 23rd, 2011, 07:47 PM
I dislike people using it as a simple insult; it makes the user look both unintelligent and lexically challenged, and one could really do better to avoid seeming like either case. If one is using it without real malintent, however, and is generally careful not to offend other people when the word is being utilized I believe it is nothing too serious.

Sort of like other swear words. : U Sure it carries a negative connotation, and you could find a large quantity of superior expressions to replace it, but if it's used carefully then I don't have too many problems with it.

Mr. X
July 23rd, 2011, 07:48 PM
When 12 year old boys use the word on COD, they just prove that they're losers that can't think of another word.


That happened to me once. I told the kid to blow me... and about five seconds later he blew me up with a grenade.

*facedesk*

Shadow_Angel
July 23rd, 2011, 07:52 PM
Oh wow. I think a lot of the people that use the words are immature and can't think of other words to use. And that's stupid, there's lots of other words that can be replaced. But they just automatically use that word.

Gymnotide
July 24th, 2011, 07:12 AM
I guess a lot of what's been said should also be considered when talking about the other F-word. I know it's not directly made to offend any certain group, but it's equally crass also used a lot more freely by a greater portion of the population (as an emphatic, for example). Is it just a matter of "offense" as people have mentioned, or is this something specific to slurs?

Gothitelle.
July 24th, 2011, 09:59 AM
I cringe at homosexuals referring to themselves with slurs the same as I cringe at black people doing it.
Funny thing that it's okay for them to say "gay" and the N word (and I don't mean "expletive"), but when straight people say "gay" or white people say the N word then they get a finger pointed to them. The hate finger.

I don't say the N word because well I have really no use for it but the word gay has alot of definitions. I say "that's so gay" or "you're being gay" alot but I mean it in a different way. When I say "that's so gay" I mean it as in it's dumb/stupid/tacky. When I tell someone that they are "being gay" I mean that they are being crazy/weird/happy etc.

In short, it's gay to let a certain group use a term but not the other.

FreakyLocz14
July 24th, 2011, 03:59 PM
Funny thing that it's okay for them to say "gay" and the N word (and I don't mean "nig*ah"), but when straight people say "gay" or white people say the N word then they get a finger pointed to them. The hate finger.

I don't say the N word because well I have really no use for it but the word gay has alot of definitions. I say "that's so gay" or "you're being gay" alot but I mean it in a different way. When I say "that's so gay" I mean it as in it's dumb/stupid/tacky. When I tell someone that they are "being gay" I mean that they are being crazy/weird/happy etc.

In short, it's gay to let a certain group use a term but not the other.


I have no problem with that. I'm staunchly opposed to political correctness. If you didn't intend your statement as an attack on homosexuals, no harm no foul.

Guy
July 24th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Funny thing that it's okay for them to say "gay" and the N word (and I don't mean "expletive"), but when straight people say "gay" or white people say the N word then they get a finger pointed to them. The hate finger.

I don't say the N word because well I have really no use for it but the word gay has alot of definitions. I say "that's so gay" or "you're being gay" alot but I mean it in a different way. When I say "that's so gay" I mean it as in it's dumb/stupid/tacky. When I tell someone that they are "being gay" I mean that they are being crazy/weird/happy etc.

In short, it's gay to let a certain group use a term but not the other.

I never understood the former myself, but I never actually sat down to put much thought on the matter either. It's just what it was.

On the latter though, to call something gay or to call someone gay in the term of meaning dumb, stupid, crazy, or what you have you can actually be taken as an offense. No, you're not aiming it as disrespect, but it can come off that way to many people who are indeed gay. Rather than say "That's so gay" in terms of "That's so stupid," then say what you mean rather than take another word in replace of it.

Gymnotide
July 24th, 2011, 08:38 PM
I never understood the former myself, but I never actually sat down to put much thought on the matter either. It's just what it was.

On the latter though, to call something gay or to call someone gay in the term of meaning dumb, stupid, crazy, or what you have you can actually be taken as an offense. No, you're not aiming it as disrespect, but it can come off that way to many people who are indeed gay. Rather than say "That's so gay" in terms of "That's so stupid," then say what you mean rather than take another word in replace of it.

It might just be that the word has become so accessible. It's not that a lot of people use it because it conveys their emotions the best, but because it's become a go-to word. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it's true. Every time my friend says "gay," I can't help to chuckle because it just comes out (and he freaks out about it--quite amusing actually). He doesn't mean it derogatorily, nor as a form of disrespect, but it's sort of like how the F-word works--it just fits into blank spaces. Again, not saying that's supposed to be an example of good vocabulary or anything, but I am conceding that it's a matter of accessibility.

Esper
July 25th, 2011, 09:34 AM
I have no problem with that. I'm staunchly opposed to political correctness. If you didn't intend your statement as an attack on homosexuals, no harm no foul.
But there can be harm even if it's not intended to be an attack. Like if someone is being bullied in school because of their sexuality it could make them feel worse even if it's not directed at them. It's the whole atmosphere. It adds to what might already be a bad situation. There is no harm in trying to be considerate. I don't see why someone would intentionally be offensive once they know that what they're saying. And I can't believe there is anyone today who hasn't been told at least once that they shouldn't say "that's so gay" because it's offensive.

FreakyLocz14
July 25th, 2011, 11:40 AM
But there can be harm even if it's not intended to be an attack. Like if someone is being bullied in school because of their sexuality it could make them feel worse even if it's not directed at them. It's the whole atmosphere. It adds to what might already be a bad situation. There is no harm in trying to be considerate. I don't see why someone would intentionally be offensive once they know that what they're saying. And I can't believe there is anyone today who hasn't been told at least once that they shouldn't say "that's so gay" because it's offensive.

I don't feel that people should have to tip-toe around every word they say because someone sensitive around them might be offended.

Guy
July 25th, 2011, 01:52 PM
It might just be that the word has become so accessible. It's not that a lot of people use it because it conveys their emotions the best, but because it's become a go-to word. I'm not saying that makes it right, but it's true. Every time my friend says "gay," I can't help to chuckle because it just comes out (and he freaks out about it--quite amusing actually). He doesn't mean it derogatorily, nor as a form of disrespect, but it's sort of like how the F-word works--it just fits into blank spaces. Again, not saying that's supposed to be an example of good vocabulary or anything, but I am conceding that it's a matter of accessibility.
I can understand that it has become something of a norm in today's list of usual dialogue, but in terms of accessibility, saying what you really mean is just as accessible. The point I'm trying to make here is that while you don't mean anything harmful, it's still disrespectful to title something as gay just because you think it's stupid, bad looking, or dumb. To me it's like an abuse of the word I guess you could say.

I don't feel that people should have to tip-toe around every word they say because someone sensitive around them might be offended.
It's not a matter of tip-toeing around words. It's a matter of being respectful of someone else.

Alice
July 25th, 2011, 02:04 PM
I don't feel that people should have to tip-toe around every word they say because someone sensitive around them might be offended.
If you don't intend to offend anyone, then you should recognize when someone will be offended, and avoid saying said offensive word.

2Cool4Mewtwo
July 25th, 2011, 02:36 PM
I think it's not right to use any word that can at least potentially be offensive to a group of people. If someone says "that thing is so gay" or something like that, you might not mean it, but people that are actually gay take it seriously and take it as a homophobic slur. Something that might not mean anything to you, might mean a lot to someone else.

Gymnotide
July 25th, 2011, 03:31 PM
It's not a matter of tip-toeing around words. It's a matter of being respectful of someone else.[/FONT]

Also, we have to be mindful of the lengths of "respect." People can be offended by nearly anything, whether it be something harmless as the word "prick" to something vernacularly connoted to be bad, like "fag." Of course, the latter is more liable to mass upset, rather than individual, so it's a bit more... Stigmatized.

Regardless, no matter how gracefully I can defend this position, it still is "tip-toeing around words," though perhaps in a more valiant manner.

Esper
July 26th, 2011, 08:58 AM
Just because some people are easily offended doesn't mean we should assume all people who get offended are easily offended. I just think I need to put that out there.

And the idea of "tip-toeing around words" - some people make it sound like it's this awful thing people have to put up with. Words can do a lot of harm so there's good reason to tip toe sometimes.

Gymnotide
July 26th, 2011, 09:36 AM
Point evident in how we dress up our speech for interviews and work-related conversations. It's more of a social dynamic to become 'acceptable'.

Esper
July 26th, 2011, 09:49 AM
Point evident in how we dress up our speech for interviews and work-related conversations. It's more of a social dynamic to become 'acceptable'.
I'm not sure I quite follow you. Are you saying that not using offensive language is similar to speaking more politely in a job interview and is "just" a social convention?

Gymnotide
July 26th, 2011, 10:10 AM
I never said "just", but yes. If we're talking about a socially-involved topic, then there is always convention as to what is appropriate to say/do/etc. I was providing an analogue to your point to enforce that "tip-toeing" is more commonplace than the topic of this thread.

Myles
July 26th, 2011, 11:26 PM
the word "prick"

Is profanity, not a slur.

It wouldn't be tiptoeing if you weren't naturally inclined to using slurs. I never have to censor myself of slurs 'cos I've never really ever used them in an offensive manner. So it's not a habit I have to 'kick' or something. Unless someone brings them up or uses them, I don't think of them.

Even if you don't mean them offensively, you would be one of the few user's of the words that don't. Whether you like it or not you learned to use the words from people who did intend to offend people and now you're claiming that your use isn't offensive. And if the people you learnt them from didn't mean them offensively, the people they learnt them from would have, and so on.

The words are intended to be offensive (it even says so in the dictionary). If your individual use is not, then that's because you're trying to use the words to mean something they don't.

G.U.Y.
July 26th, 2011, 11:31 PM
The words are intended to be offensive (it even says so in the dictionary). If your individual use is not, then that's because you're trying to use the words to mean something they don't.

Slang is where something is not exactly what it's supposed to be, or just not a normal word all together.

Many people use words such as fag, or prick as slang. They're not literal. I call my brother a douche and he calls me a prick all the time. We don't actually mean it.

Gymnotide
July 26th, 2011, 11:41 PM
Is profanity, not a slur.

It wouldn't be tiptoeing if you weren't naturally inclined to using slurs. I never have to censor myself of slurs 'cos I've never really ever used them in an offensive manner. So it's not a habit I have to 'kick' or something. Unless someone brings them up or uses them, I don't think of them.

Even if you don't mean them offensively, you would be one of the few user's of the words that don't. Whether you like it or not you learned to use the words from people who did intend to offend people and now you're claiming that your use isn't offensive. And if the people you learnt them from didn't mean them offensively, the people they learnt them from would have, and so on.

The words are intended to be offensive (it even says so in the dictionary). If your individual use is not, then that's because you're trying to use the words to mean something they don't.

Ach, but that was beside my point.
Aaand, good points for the latter portion. Those are my words exactly.

Myles
July 26th, 2011, 11:41 PM
Yes, but it does deviate from standard English (hence why it's slang, and some definitions aren't), so you can't complain if people think you're using one of the more commonly used definitions. Let's take a look at a dictionary (note dictionaries contain common slang, it's only rare slang they lack):

Let's take a look at the dictionary:

fag n.
(colloquial, vulgar, derogatory) A male homosexual.
(US, colloquial, vulgar, pejorative) An annoying person. "Why did you do that, you fag?"
(colloquial, vulgar, derogatory) A homosexual person.

I could say "An apple isn't a fruit." if my personal usage of the word 'fruit' meant 'rock', and you couldn't complain, right?

Edit: ninja'd, but same response to that too. :P

Gothitelle.
July 27th, 2011, 08:45 AM
But there can be harm even if it's not intended to be an attack. Like if someone is being bullied in school because of their sexuality it could make them feel worse even if it's not directed at them. It's the whole atmosphere. It adds to what might already be a bad situation. There is no harm in trying to be considerate. I don't see why someone would intentionally be offensive once they know that what they're saying. And I can't believe there is anyone today who hasn't been told at least once that they shouldn't say "that's so gay" because it's offensive.


I've said gay alot when I was in school and no one was offended. I've had the gay word directed at me sometimes. Like when someone tells me "your hair is very gay looking"; they mean that it's crazy looking.

We don't mean that gays are crazy, it's just a word. That's it. To me that is. Lately, people on another forum are telling me not to say "gay" :p


(also "fag" is also slang in Britain or Australia for "cigarette")

-ty-
July 27th, 2011, 08:56 AM
I've said gay alot when I was in school and no one was offended. I've had the gay word directed at me sometimes. Like when someone tells me "your hair is very gay looking"; they mean that it's crazy looking.

We don't mean that gays are crazy, it's just a word. That's it. To me that is. Lately, people on another forum are telling me not to say "gay" :p


(also "fag" is also slang in Britain or Australia for "cigarette")

I very much understand the use of your words, they are meant to be emote something that is frustrated or "crazy".

However, this type of language usage is acceptable b/c homophobia is somewhat acceptable.

For instance, what if I said, BUT I WOULD NEVER SAY THIS, "You are a n****r," rather than saying "you are a f****t." Should both be acceptable if you believe that one of them is acceptable?

I think that the first example of the two would be highly scrutinized, but the latter would not be so harshly scrutinized. Is it our bias as a society?

2Cool4Mewtwo
July 27th, 2011, 09:00 AM
I've said gay alot when I was in school and no one was offended. I've had the gay word directed at me sometimes. Like when someone tells me "your hair is very gay looking"; they mean that it's crazy looking.

We don't mean that gays are crazy, it's just a word. That's it. To me that is. Lately, people on another forum are telling me not to say "gay" :p


(also "fag" is also slang in Britain or Australia for "cigarette")
Even though most people around you might not take the word "gay" seriously, some do, and it really offends them when they hear it.

Gymnotide
July 27th, 2011, 11:13 AM
Eh, 'fag' as cigarette is impertinent ;)

But, then why not just say 'crazy'? From personal experience, 'gay hair' means something different for me lol XD

Gothitelle.
July 27th, 2011, 04:54 PM
I very much understand the use of your words, they are meant to be emote something that is frustrated or "crazy".

However, this type of language usage is acceptable b/c homophobia is somewhat acceptable.

For instance, what if I said, BUT I WOULD NEVER SAY THIS, "You are a n****r," rather than saying "you are a f****t." Should both be acceptable if you believe that one of them is acceptable?

I think that the first example of the two would be highly scrutinized, but the latter would not be so harshly scrutinized. Is it our bias as a society?

I'm not a fan of the word f****t because of the way it sound and it sounds like another variation of the F word. For the N word, I do find that a little offfensive but I wouldn't blush over it. But yeah I dont think both should be accepted.

Guy
July 27th, 2011, 05:01 PM
I'm not a fan of the word f****t because of the way it sound and it sounds like another variation of the F word. For the N word, I do find that a little offfensive but I wouldn't blush over it. But yeah I dont think both should be accepted.
Saying this further goes to show why calling something gay can be inappropriate as far as I see it. You say the sound of said word makes you dislike using / hearing the word. Look at it from another person's perspective, it can be taken the same way. They're not a fan of hearing people refer to things as gay, because they find it inappropriate or unacceptable for the situation.

I also agree with -ty- when he said using the terms like "fag" or "gay" towards something else might not seem wrong to people, because essentially a majority of the world's population views being gay as something wrong.

Myles
July 27th, 2011, 05:26 PM
I'm not a fan of the word f****t because of the way it sound and it sounds like another variation of the F word.

Wait, are you saying you have a problem with the f-word, but not slurs..? :| One is only profanity and isn't even a derogative term.

Gymnotide
July 29th, 2011, 12:20 AM
Wait, are you saying you have a problem with the f-word, but not slurs..? :| One is only profanity and isn't even a derogative term.

The f-word (if I'm thinking of the right one ;3) might be the most versatile vulgarism in the English language, though, which makes it sort of an exception. However, that also serves to downplay its impact as well... Regardless, there's not really a correlation between the two words.

Gothitelle.
July 29th, 2011, 06:38 AM
Wait, are you saying you have a problem with the f-word, but not slurs..? :| One is only profanity and isn't even a derogative term.
F word as in f****t I don't like.

Massacre.
July 29th, 2011, 08:27 AM
As usual, I am offended. I often freak out when I hear such things. And the amount of time's I've got in trouble for retaliating... damn. I can't be friends with anyone who is homophobic or white/black supremacist.

Gymnotide
July 29th, 2011, 11:39 AM
F word as in f****t I don't like.

Well, fag is just a shortened form of ****** anyway.
Wait, now I'm really confused.

-ty-
July 29th, 2011, 12:03 PM
F word as in f****t I don't like.

So fag is alright, but f*****t is not alright?

fango pango
July 31st, 2011, 01:56 AM
God someone's an anti-social ***** xD
nah jkjk its actually pretty funny :)
lol its like me sayin "if i could punch every single one of you in the fface i gladly wuld"

and anyway
i just shrug em off

Gothitelle.
July 31st, 2011, 07:28 AM
So fag is alright, but f*****t is not alright?
Fag also means cigarette and such. So fag could mean alot of things.

The other, I am not a fan of.

Esper
July 31st, 2011, 10:29 AM
Fag also means cigarette and such. So fag could mean alot of things.

The other, I am not a fan of.
That word, without context of any kind, could mean a cigarette (in some countries), but when used as an insult never means a cigarette and is equivalent to the longer version of it. That little semantics dance isn't going to diminish how offensive it is and is no excuse for using it as a slur. I don't mean to direct this at you, but just to put it out there in case anyone tries to say otherwise.

deoxys121
July 31st, 2011, 10:48 AM
I feel you should always watch what you say, at least publicly. I say this because you never know what kind of people could be around, and therefore you could very easily offend someone. I've had all types of stereotypical people around me (by that I mean people who are sometimes the target of stereotypes), and I know for a fact that most of the ones I've been around would be highly offended if I used the N-word or the aforementioned F-word around them. I honestly can say that now, in everyday conversation, I do not use these types of words because I am very aware that people can be easily offended.

Gymnotide
July 31st, 2011, 11:04 PM
Fag also means cigarette and such. So fag could mean alot of things.

The other, I am not a fan of.

Just because a word has a homonym doesn't mean that its impact is divided equally between the two words.

God someone's an anti-social ***** xD
nah jkjk its actually pretty funny :)
lol its like me sayin "if i could punch every single one of you in the fface i gladly wuld"

and anyway
i just shrug em off

lol fango, sometimes I wonder what goes on in your mind.

G.U.Y.
July 31st, 2011, 11:20 PM
Fag also means cigarette and such. So fag could mean alot of things.

The other, I am not a fan of.

"Fag" and "faggot" mean the exact same thing, even if you're talking about a bundle of sticks or cigarettes. "Fag" is just a shorter version of "faggot." I don't see a problem with any use of it as long as it's not used in a harmful and vindictive way. And I am gay

Congrats to Gymnotide on 100 posts in this thread

m2287
August 1st, 2011, 10:17 AM
i wasnt offended, i was just curious to see what it was about