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NDogg45
July 5th, 2011, 11:03 PM
Most people hate Atheists such as myself. I mean, what is the big deal? We don't have the same beliefs as you, do not try to convert us... If you want to, leave us be to believe what WE WANT.

Alli
July 5th, 2011, 11:11 PM
I assume it's because it's just quite a jump to say that "I don't believe in God." There are some non-religious people that at least believe in a divine power out there, so it's still like...some glimmer of hope, I guess. But to straight up not believe, it's just...I don't know the right words. So...straightforward, I suppose. I believe in God, but I don't hate atheists. That's your belief, and I have my own. Respect mine, I'll respect yours. It's simple as that. I don't see any reason to hate another person for their religious beliefs, or lack of. If this post makes no sense, I'm sorry, lol. It's 2 AM.

Winter Wonderland
July 5th, 2011, 11:32 PM
In most cases, it boils down to how they were raised. A lot of people were raised to believe that their God is truly the only way. But, they were raised being taught about their religion as flawless, perfect, and the only right way. So, this being the case, they genuinely freak out when they hear someone doesn't believe what they believe. Anywho, this is just what I've seen at my school.

TRIFORCE89
July 6th, 2011, 03:35 AM
I did not know people hated Atheists on mass.

Some can be annoying because they look down on those who believe like they're stupid. But the same can be said about annoying overly religious types who try to convert people.

cazzler
July 6th, 2011, 06:09 AM
I couldn't imagine myself being atheist, I mean, dying would literally be the end for them. (No afterlife)

Went
July 6th, 2011, 07:01 AM
I couldn't imagine myself being atheist, I mean, dying would literally be the end for them. (No afterlife)

We already have one life here to make the most out of. I'd rather worry about this one and be happy. If it turns out there is an afterlife, well, I'll look into that once I'm there.

Kyoko
July 6th, 2011, 07:21 AM
I don't think people hate atheists as a whole, just the select few who take it too far just as religious extremists. There's a difference between simply mentioning you don't believe in god when it comes up and then full on being condescending to others beliefs. I know someone who doesn't let us say "bless you" after he sneezes and laughs every time we pass a church.

I'm agnostic myself, so it's not like i'm sitting here mad that atheists are running down my beliefs, it's that they're doing that at all. And that goes for anyone who tries to convert or talk down peoples beliefs, certainly not just atheists.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 07:23 AM
I did not know people hated Atheists on mass.

Some can be annoying because they look down on those who believe like they're stupid. But the same can be said about annoying overly religious types who try to convert people.


We are statistically the most hated and distrusted minority (http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/09/19/research-finds-that-atheists-are-most-hated-and-distrusted-minority/) in America. Heck, even if you type 'atheists' into a site like Openbook (http://youropenbook.org/), the number of statuses about atheists being stupid of all things is overwhelming.

People are just tribal and aggressive I guess. We're different in what many people consider extremely important ways, so they think we're deviant and dangerous.

I couldn't imagine myself being atheist, I mean, dying would literally be the end for them. (No afterlife)

It's really very simple. The human mind cannot imagine what it would be like to not be able to perceive anything; that would not make sense. So people tend to try and come up with something that must happen to one's consciousness or whatever after death, even though the consciousness and identity in question is as much a part of you physical brain as anything; it's more likely than not a pattern and a set of predispositions that dictate how you respond to things. In the end, all we are is matter. We're definitely very complex and interesting, but so are jellyfish and venus flytraps. We have an evolutionary quirk that makes us the way we are, self aware and successful. But that's what it is; not some supernatural component.

Personally, I think that's incredibly beautiful. I am a part of this planet, this universe...Just as much as the earth, every animal and plant, every grain of sand. And some day the elements and chemical compounds that make up my body and mind will gradually be distributed again to feed and be parts of other things, life will still exist, and the world, the galaxy..the universe will keep moving and evolving, just as it has before any of us came into existence, and after countless people and creatures have lived and died. There may be no 'afterlife' for you as an individual, but life will continue to exist in the universe for, if not forever, a very, very long time. That is good enough for me.

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
July 6th, 2011, 07:49 AM
Well, you've got to put it in perspective. To many people not believing in God pretty much equals not believing in the existence of air. They know they can't see it or hear it, but they still feel it.

Of course, atheists and non-believers ideally should just respect each other just as Real Madrid and Barcelona FC fans do.

Oh wait... they don't.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 07:53 AM
Atheists feel god?

No.

Also, the existence of air can be proven scientifically. That's kind of an important point to that argument that people seem to miss. Is it deliberate or are people just that oblivious?

インフェルノの津波
July 6th, 2011, 08:03 AM
Because Atheists are a group of people who don't believe in supernatural things such as God (at least the ones I know), angels and such. I see their point, why believe something that we can't even see, whereas those who are Religious and such believe they have no fate whatsoever.

I don't really care about Atheists to much. I see them as I see anyone else, besides Religion governs things too much. Plus, why should they believe in God?

But I find it hilarious that the same religious people who say their God is benevolent and merciful are the same people who refuse to accept Atheism, and say Atheists are going to hell. What hell?

Though at the same time I've known Atheists who blame religion on everything that's wrong. Those kinds I hate, they don't help the problem they just fuel it.

I rest my case.

In fact I find them intelligent, they're smart enough to not follow the pack, hence they're the black sheep in society.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 08:10 AM
I feel the need to share this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U) :D

Asrossk
July 6th, 2011, 08:17 AM
I'm atheist. All it means is we do not believe in a God; I don't see why someone would hate us for that. I understand and respect any theist's view, why would they not respect ours in turn? Death is an impossible concept to imagine, an ocean of eternal darkness. Being from the perspective of an atheist has helped me realise how precious your life is. It's your one shot to do something that counts in this world.

If I was a theist I would not believe in an afterlife. We are all very lucky to be alive and I will be content with just having the privilege to spend some time on this planet.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 08:22 AM
Even thinking of death as 'an ocean of eternal darkness' implies the person somehow living after death (just in, well, darkness.)

You won't see darkness. You won't feel or see anything; it'd be just like before you were born. Can you remember that? Do you recall seeing or feeling or perceiving anything? Existing?

deoxys121
July 6th, 2011, 08:49 AM
I don't hate Atheists. I fully believe in God and all that, and consider myself a non-denominational Christian. I fully respect Atheists' right to choose to follow (or not follow, in this case) as they want or believe, religiously, because the United States, where I live, was founded on Freedom of Religion. However, as far as Atheists who disrespect those of us who do believe in God, then I don't get along with them. Simply put towards Atheists: I won't try to convert you, because that is disrespectful. I expect the same respect in return.

Cherrim
July 6th, 2011, 09:02 AM
Atheists feel god?

No.

Also, the existence of air can be proven scientifically. That's kind of an important point to that argument that people seem to miss. Is it deliberate or are people just that oblivious?
You missed the point. He was saying that to theists, the concept of God is as natural as air. You can't (typically) see either, but you know they're there. That's just how natural theology is to them, just as you sit there and go "well obviously since I don't see any concrete proof, it means there's nothing". Two different viewpoints and sometimes even looking at the same evidence produces two different ideas. (Like the people who look at the Big Bang and see only science with no room for a deity, or the people who look at it and see proof of God setting the universe in motion.)
Even thinking of death as 'an ocean of eternal darkness' implies the person somehow living after death (just in, well, darkness.)

You won't see darkness. You won't feel or see anything; it'd be just like before you were born. Can you remember that? Do you recall seeing or feeling or perceiving anything? Existing?
Atheism just means you don't believe in a theological higher power, so no God(s). It says nothing about afterlife and if someone believes that after you die it's just a deep, dark abyss, they can still be an atheist. And you're sort of being one of those atheists in this thread, the ones that turn every discussion involving theology into "no, atheists are right because ____". D:

Though I guess everyone's sort of getting it wrong with thinking that all atheists belong in nothingness after life and all theists believe in heaven/afterlife equivalent. I look at (a)theism very literally, meaning for me, it's just whether or not you believe in any sort of deity and any superstition or lack thereof relating to a religion (or personal beliefs that don't align with a religion) is separate.

As for myself, I used to consider myself an atheist and then I realized later that I honestly don't care in the least. Maybe there's a god, maybe there isn't. What if I decide to believe in a god and follow a religion and I pick the wrong one and don't get into any sort of afterlife anyway? I don't feel that it directly affects the life I'm living now, and it doesn't interest me enough to ponder it deeply, so I'm just apathetic.

King Goodra
July 6th, 2011, 09:08 AM
Even thinking of death as 'an ocean of eternal darkness' implies the person somehow living after death (just in, well, darkness.)

You won't see darkness. You won't feel or see anything; it'd be just like before you were born. Can you remember that? Do you recall seeing or feeling or perceiving anything? Existing?
I can barely remember what I ate for breakfast yesterday, let alone feeling something when I was in my mother's womb more than 19 years ago.

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
July 6th, 2011, 09:13 AM
Atheists feel god?

No.


I never said atheists. If your read carefully, I was talking about believers. And you just can't say they don't feel it, even if you don't.


Also, the existence of air can be proven scientifically. That's kind of an important point to that argument that people seem to miss. Is it deliberate or are people just that oblivious?
Heh, it's called an analogy. I'm sorry if that wasn't awfully obvious. I was just trying to put how believers feel about atheism in perspective.

Livewire
July 6th, 2011, 09:16 AM
Yay, let's hate people for their beliefs! Very forward thinking and progressive.

Let people have the beliefs they want, as long as they aren't trying to convert people en masse, and as long as they don't try to turn the US into a theocracy. That's the problem I have with missionary trips and the like.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 09:20 AM
Oops, my bad. :x I'll leave before I start an argument. >.>

shenanigans
July 6th, 2011, 09:26 AM
I'm an Atheist and I can see why a religious person would dislike some of us. It's unfortunately true that some of us can take a bit of a "LOL YOU BELIEVE IN GOD HERE LET ME REMIND YOU THAT HE DOESN'T EXIST" approach upon meeting a religious person and it's annoying that this can tend to set the tone for many other Atheists like myself who will respect a simple variation in opinion.

Inversely though, I do know a fair number of people who would try to get on a moral high horse, so to speak, for believing in a God which I think is also wrong. A belief on something like this can't make you any better or worse than anyone else unless you're pastafarian (reading material (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster)) or something like that which is just tbqh ridiculous.

Basically people just need to be more reserved about their beliefs until they're with someone who shares the same beliefs as they do and this whole thing wouldn't even be a problem. =/

Tropical Sunlight
July 6th, 2011, 11:10 AM
I, speaking as an atheist, I do not believe in a god or any other deity. I seem to get amused by people who try to prove that God is real, or those who try to prove he isn't.

I used to go to church when I was little, and I celebrate Christmas and Easter, and stuff, but I just don't believe.

Esper
July 6th, 2011, 11:52 AM
When you (the hypothetical you) say "I'm an atheist" there are people out there who hear "I don't believe in God and you're wrong because you do." This is because some atheists do in fact act and speak that way and make the rest look bad. It's also because some of those listening don't have a proper understanding of people who believe differently from them. It all comes down to people with different views not being able (or willing) to communicate or understand each other.

I had more to say, but my browser ate the rest of it. :/

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 02:29 PM
I'm an Atheist and I can see why a religious person would dislike some of us. It's unfortunately true that some of us can take a bit of a "LOL YOU BELIEVE IN GOD HERE LET ME REMIND YOU THAT HE DOESN'T EXIST" approach upon meeting a religious person and it's annoying that this can tend to set the tone for many other Atheists like myself who will respect a simple variation in opinion.

Inversely though, I do know a fair number of people who would try to get on a moral high horse, so to speak, for believing in a God which I think is also wrong. A belief on something like this can't make you any better or worse than anyone else unless you're pastafarian (reading material (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster)) or something like that which is just tbqh ridiculous.

Basically people just need to be more reserved about their beliefs until they're with someone who shares the same beliefs as they do and this whole thing wouldn't even be a problem. =/


But Pastafarianism is so FUN! I might make an elaborate Flying Spaghetti Monster costume this year for Halloween. :)

Oryx
July 6th, 2011, 02:56 PM
There's already been one in this thread; an atheist who is outright rude when discussing the beliefs of theists. It's much, much more common than the opposite in my experience. Because atheists feel like they're going to be attacked, they automatically go on the defensive. "I'm an atheist and you better respect my beliefs because X, Y, Z, and by the way your beliefs are stupid!" Because they feel like theists are going to immediately tell them why God exists, they start their conversations about it by telling them why they're wrong. There are also many atheists who, because in general most people aren't born atheists, feel like they had somewhat of a "conversion experience", like a lot of religions. One day they saw the light of atheism and want others to experience that conversion, and feel like they're a better, smarter person for "figuring it out" while the rest of the ignorant masses are wallowing in the dark ages.

I'm not saying every atheist is this way, of course. But in my experience, I've met honestly, a lot more Christians than atheists, but a lot more rude atheists than rude Christians. Even the nun who runs the dorm I live in at school said multiple times when we first moved in that she didn't care about our beliefs. My place of work is Church-related but they hired me knowing that I'm agnostic, and made sure that they mentioned in the interview that religion isn't important to get the job. Modern Christians tend to have the "accept everyone" vibe drilled into their minds, while modern atheists tend to have the "I'm better than those dumb Christians" vibe instead.

JimJams
July 6th, 2011, 04:18 PM
I didn't realize that I was being 'rude'. Just explaining things. Sorry.

parallelzero
July 6th, 2011, 05:27 PM
There's already been one in this thread; an atheist who is outright rude when discussing the beliefs of theists. It's much, much more common than the opposite in my experience. Because atheists feel like they're going to be attacked, they automatically go on the defensive. "I'm an atheist and you better respect my beliefs because X, Y, Z, and by the way your beliefs are stupid!" Because they feel like theists are going to immediately tell them why God exists, they start their conversations about it by telling them why they're wrong. There are also many atheists who, because in general most people aren't born atheists, feel like they had somewhat of a "conversion experience", like a lot of religions. One day they saw the light of atheism and want others to experience that conversion, and feel like they're a better, smarter person for "figuring it out" while the rest of the ignorant masses are wallowing in the dark ages.

I'm not saying every atheist is this way, of course. But in my experience, I've met honestly, a lot more Christians than atheists, but a lot more rude atheists than rude Christians. Even the nun who runs the dorm I live in at school said multiple times when we first moved in that she didn't care about our beliefs. My place of work is Church-related but they hired me knowing that I'm agnostic, and made sure that they mentioned in the interview that religion isn't important to get the job. Modern Christians tend to have the "accept everyone" vibe drilled into their minds, while modern atheists tend to have the "I'm better than those dumb Christians" vibe instead.

I really think it comes down to where you live. Different areas have different general religious backgrounds. In my area, it's actually the religious who attack the non-religious because there is a decrease in the number of people who have any kind of faith. I'm sure we can agree that both sides are just as bad - it just depends on where you're located. I'm an agnostic myself, so I generally don't get involved, but placing blame is really what causes these issues in the first place.

Oryx
July 6th, 2011, 05:58 PM
I didn't realize that I was being 'rude'. Just explaining things. Sorry.

You did back off, but when it came to this post:

Atheists feel god?

No.

Also, the existence of air can be proven scientifically. That's kind of an important point to that argument that people seem to miss. Is it deliberate or are people just that oblivious?

You were slipping into the "I'm smarter than theists" mentality by insulting the person who made the analogy and implying that people who believe that aren't as smart as you.

@parallel: I'm from the Northeast, so that could be part of it, although a lot of my experience has also been online. While there are Christians that like to argue about why they're right, in my experience they've been completely eclipsed by the amount of atheists who want to argue about why they're right. Not claiming that being an atheist is a bad thing, but it just reminds me of (language warning in this link) this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI&feature=player_embedded).

GXS
July 6th, 2011, 06:12 PM
I believe that people have the right to believe anything they want, and they shouldnt be able to critisize others for ther beliefs. I consider myself an athiest but i still go to a catholic school and hang around many of my catholic friends. We basically have agreed to dissagree and not to discuss my beliefs, and it works great. Ive been baptized and confirmed as a christain but I now consider my self not catholic. But thats just me and i still totally respect catholics for what they believe in.

Alley Cat
July 6th, 2011, 06:30 PM
People don't "hate" atheists any more than they "hate" Christian's. When ideas a thoughts rise up, there are going to be those who believe them, and those who don't. Because of that difference in belief, people are going to get frustrated thinking that "their belief" is the right one. A lot of Athiests(and Christians) follow the whole "My belief is better/true, because I believe in it." That doesn't really make sense, but it happens to be the cornerstone for a lot of arguments used by people. They know they can't just out right say: I believe in ________, so that makes it true. So they reserach a few facts and figures. But when they don't have enough knowledge to argue their point beyond a point of reasonable doubt, then they start to get angry(afraid) and that's when fights(flame wars in the case of the internet) break out. I said afraid, because anger is fear. They are afraid that MAYBE just MAYBE their belief isn't right. They couldn't exactly prove it, and here someone else is providing a bunch of evidence/coming at them with plenty more believers that their beliefs are truly the right ones.

I would be Agnostic. Simply because, I really don't care how we got here. All that matters to me is: we are here. This life, I might only have one. If I do, I want to be able to have said: I lived my life. I had fun. I made mistakes. Things didn't always go my way. I had my problems. But then.. there were the good times. The times that made my life worth living. The times that I'm glad I have. I loved my life, and I have no regrets. I can't do that if I spend my time worrying over what might have brought me to be about on this planet. I can't do that if I spend my time trying to please a deity that may or may not exist. I just cant. When you have too many worries(i.e. making it to Heaven, pleasing god, or being too concerned about religion/how we got here) then you don't allow yourself to have fun, because you are constantly stressing over what to do now, or what am I going to do if I screw up here? Best solution? Don't think about it. Just have fun in the one life you are absolutely positively sure that you do have, the proof of that one life being, the simple fact that you are right here living it. If their turns out to be an afterlife(whatever it may be) then the time that you die and are introduced to it, is the time that you are going to learn to deal with it. Or not.

Part of the reason that I personally don't necesarily believe in Religion(note: not God/other diety) is the fact that many religions label me a fail and reject right from the start. Why? Because I'm gay. I simply refuse to believe in anything that is damning me from the start, because of something that is the way I am. I could understand being damned to hell or whatever for choices made, but not for something completely out of your control, something you didn't choose. This reason, however is just for me. Also probably a lot of other homosexuals. This isn't to say that you can't believe in God(Religion) while being homosexual. Because you can. I know plenty of gay/bisexual people who do in fact believe in God, go to church on a regular basis, pray, and etc. It's just not for me.

Still though, even with my dislike of religion, I can't deny the importance of it all through out history. Religion brought people together and unified them, it was the start of many societies and countries, and the values and foundations behind many great people. But for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. That is to say, while religion has done a lot of good, it can also be the cause of a lot of bad.Contains spoilers about a fantastic movie that I reccomend you watching. Does contain some good info, I believe. If you have seen the movie The Book of Eli the world is in such a hopeless, desperate state. Destroyed, and barren. The remaining people are viscious and untrustworthy. There are people who have banded together to survive in this new lifestyle. Some to search for one thing, the book. The protagonist of the story, his goal is to keep the book from falling into the hands of the wrong people. Power in the wrong hands is bad. It is revealed later that the book is in fact a bible. I know a movie can't really "prove" anything. But what it does show(fiction or not) is that religion has the capability of bringing people together. Such people that if not brought together, would not have made the social/technological advances that we have in our modern world.

As for the people who mentioned the hate depending on where you live in the world, that is something very true. Different areas of the world will have the various different beliefs and the percentages of people who follow those beliefs. When anyone is a minority, the smaller man, is much easier to be the majority, the bigger man, and swing your club at them, than it is for them to swing their club at you.

HarrisonH
July 6th, 2011, 07:06 PM
Let's start this off with this: Do not capitalize the word "atheist". It does not get capitalization because it is only a word, a word that means "lack of belief in a god or gods".

Why do some people hate atheists? It's simple: We go against everything that they believe in. They say that this Earth was created for humans, we say that we got here by "chance". They say that we're always being watched over and protected, we say that we're on our own. They say that you can't be good without a god, we're living proof that they're wrong.

And that scares them.

People tend to hold their religious beliefs extremely close to their heart. It's understandable, belief in god means that you're never alone, someone is always there for you. The belief in a deity can provide comfort when things aren't going your way.

Most religious beliefs also include some sort of an afterlife. People, in general, are afraid of dying. They don't want to imagine no longer living, no longer seeing their friends and their family. Belief in an afterlife remedies this; You get to see everyone again eventually, and live eternally.

When people hear that someone is an atheist, that means that the person is extremely different than them. This person doesn't believe in a god, doesn't believe in an afterlife, doesn't get their morals from god.

The religious person has a twang of doubt: "What if I'm wrong?"

No one likes to be wrong. The most common response is "No, I can't be wrong. They must be wrong." The religious person can't fathom that someone can be good without instruction from god, so that person must be bad. That person must live an empty life because they don't believe in god. That person must be alone because they don't have god in their heart.

Of course, we atheists are nothing like that, but will that person listen? No, their convictions, pounded into their head since they were a child, are set in stone. If one works at it, maybe one can chip away at their beliefs, not turning them to atheism, but opening them to the reality that atheists are good people too.

NDogg45
July 6th, 2011, 09:50 PM
I don't think like those annoying atheists... I just accept everyone and expect the same(but almost never get that way... :/)

@HarrisonH Ok, I will not capitalize that anymore, I thought it was an actual religion.. XDDD

PkMnTrainer Yellow
July 7th, 2011, 12:04 AM
There's a stigma associated with atheism that causes it to easily come off as pretentious. I'm just saying, it's probably a large factor.

Note the people attacking the religious in this thread. They are why you have this stigma. What they say is pretentious, and they are easily assumed to be atheists themselves, though they may just be trolls. (Though many are sadly real)

I trust you can decide how to deal with it now that you know the cause.

Shining Raichu
July 7th, 2011, 02:34 AM
I think atheists have something beyond just faith upon which they base their beliefs, and with that comes a level of certainty that religious people may find scary or even pretentious, as it goes against the way their minds work.

That might have come out harsher than I meant it, but I can't find another way to word it lol

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
July 7th, 2011, 05:40 AM
Before I reply, let it be clear that I'm agnostic.

Let's start this off with this: Do not capitalize the word "atheist". It does not get capitalization because it is only a word, a word that means "lack of belief in a god or gods".

Why do some people hate atheists? It's simple: We go against everything that they believe in. They say that this Earth was created for humans, we say that we got here by "chance". They say that we're always being watched over and protected, we say that we're on our own. They say that you can't be good without a god, we're living proof that they're wrong.

And that scares them.Okay, I don't really think you should generalize religious people like that. You can't know whether it scares them or not. It's an assumption just as frail as how you think faith in God is.

People tend to hold their religious beliefs extremely close to their heart. It's understandable, belief in god means that you're never alone, someone is always there for you. The belief in a deity can provide comfort when things aren't going your way. While I agree with some stuff here, I think you're still assuming every believer base their faith on the same emotions. Not all people look just for comfort in religion, be careful.

Most religious beliefs also include some sort of an afterlife. People, in general, are afraid of dying. They don't want to imagine no longer living, no longer seeing their friends and their family. Belief in an afterlife remedies this; You get to see everyone again eventually, and live eternally.

When people hear that someone is an atheist, that means that the person is extremely different than them. This person doesn't believe in a god, doesn't believe in an afterlife, doesn't get their morals from god.

The religious person has a twang of doubt: "What if I'm wrong?"This is quite the prime example on why people catalog atheists as pretentious people; the assumption that atheism is absolute certainty whilst faith is not.

True faith can constitute absolute certainty too. You can't just say believers have doubt as if you knew the truth to life and creation.

"What if I'm wrong?" If anything, atheists ask themselves that question more. For devoted religious people, that inquiry will seldom exist. However, as much as one won't believe in a deity, an atheist will never be certain about things that believers, because of their faith, are absolutely sure about.

No one likes to be wrong. The most common response is "No, I can't be wrong. They must be wrong." .That goes pretty well for atheists too.

Of course, we atheists are nothing like that, but will that person listen? No, their convictions, pounded into their head since they were a child, are set in stone. If one works at it, maybe one can chip away at their beliefs, not turning them to atheism, but opening them to the reality that atheists are good people too.Many religious people are nothing like what you described, so who's ever going to listen?

Kiyoshi the Polar Bear
July 7th, 2011, 07:00 AM
There are extremists in everything who condescendingly look down upon others like they live in God's attic.
Or a cloud's attic.
Or one of the Hindu god's attics.
Or- GWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHH.

The point is, no one likes someone who is preachy, and there are plenty of people on each side who are like that.

Personally, I don't hate atheism, I dislike pretentiousness.
If someone and I were to engage in a conversation about our religious beliefs, and they were atheist and they believed there is too much evidence to not be so to them, and I present my reasons for believing in god, we understand each other and possibly strengthen our relationship because of which.
If the same conversation were to come up and the atheist looked down upon me and called me stupid because I believe in god, then obviously I'm going to display some animosity back, since it's not the atheism, it's the "holier then thou" vibe. Or, "smarter then thou" in this case. Reaping what you sew. This can also be flipped to the god-believer being condescending to the atheist.

So extremists hate the opposite side's extremists, and sensible people hate both of them, regardless if they're on the same side or the fence because they're getting nowhere fast. Mutual understanding and solutions come from conversations, not pointless and mindless flame wars.

DANGIT PEOPLE JUST LIVE TOGETHER PEACEFULLY ALREADY.

HarrisonH
July 7th, 2011, 08:12 AM
Before I reply, let it be clear that I'm agnostic.

Agnostic what? (http://i.imgur.com/xXuNC.jpg)


Many religious people are nothing like what you described, so who's ever going to listen?

You know, I almost added a disclaimer to the end, stating "This of course doesn't apply to all religious people, only the ones that this topic is about, the ones who hate atheists".

Alley Cat
July 7th, 2011, 08:17 AM
The thing about religious people, though, is they have faith. Faith is believing in what can't be proven true. Even if their is no real proof or reason, you believe it anyway, for whatever reason.

Also, though, some Religious people tend to use bad logic when arguing their point. It is a simple rule in logic, that you can't use what you are trying to prove, to prove it. For example, you can't say God exists, because God. You'll have to use other examples to prove that, such as our existence here. But if you use an example such as that, you'll have the job of proving the connection between the two of those. An easier task, maybe, but still difficult. But like I mentioned up above, this where faith comes into place. They believe in their religion, and nothing said or done will change that. It'd be the same way you have faith in your bestfriend to do the right thing, even if they have done something that has caused them to lose their credibility.

Kiyoshi hit it pretty spot on. Extremists hate other extremists, the sensible people hate both. There are people out there who take what they do and their beliefs too far. Then, those few people, generally create a bad name for the others like them. It also turns out that even most people who believe in the same thing as them tend to dislike them too.


I'm honestly fine with what people do, believe, say, whatever. That's their choice. If we get in a talk about it, I'll say things from my perspective, and they'll say things from theres. I'll respect them, and they should respect me. Like the Mormons that walk around.. they are annoying. They come up and practically force their beliefs down your throat. It doesn't take much to disband them though. The said that proof for god was all us around, this planet, us humans, we came from God. Everything comes from something. So then I asked, "Where did God come from?" To which, they did not have an answer and spent the time looking like idiots. Point of this is, if you are going to step up for your beliefs, at least know what to say in the possible situations that will arise.

Townes
July 7th, 2011, 08:48 AM
As far as I'm aware, atheists around my area don't get a hard time... In fact it's usually more obvious Christians/Muslims who get targeted mostly. No matter who it is, you must respect their beliefs no matter how different, stupid, weird or impossible their ideas are- because they aren't yours. Of course, I don't mind Atheists telling me "I think you're wrong," because that's their opinion. However, I do mind it when Atheists tell me "I think you're stupid because you believe in God," because that's offensive and I can reassure you that I am most certainly not stupid. Everyone has the right to believe or not believe in what they wish, and it's a Divine and Human right.

dante1w
July 7th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Personally, i think its stupid and careless to hate someone for their beliefs. Whatever one thinks and believes is one's buisness. The world is too big for people to worry about the millions of beliefs out there. Just live your life and enjoy it, and besides, you can't judge someone based on his beliefs, even if they don't believe in god, all that matters is how they act , their morals and behavior.

Gymnotide
July 8th, 2011, 12:59 AM
HIHIHIHIHI READ ME PLZ
YOU ARE ALL WRONG
You can be atheist and religious at the same time. Get it straight, people. Being atheist doesn't mean that you don't believe in an afterlife, spiritual forces, ritual, praying, and whatnot. It just means you don't care for / distrust the existence of deities.

Townes
July 8th, 2011, 08:44 AM
Whilst that's true, Gymnotide, one, your approach to telling us that was totally abrasive, and two, generally, atheists don't believe in an afterlife, spiritual forces, etc. It's the minuscule minority who don't believe in a deity but do believe in other spiritual things.

Alley Cat
July 8th, 2011, 09:18 AM
Gymnotide, like townes said, that is true. But your approach was abrasive. It is things like this that are "the big deal fo atheism." People make big deals or are rude about it, and then they create a bad name for the others.

I'm agnostic, leaning towards deitism. I believe in plenty of spiritual stuff. I have plenty of atheist friends who believe in ghosts and spirits. Atheism comes from the Greek word atheos meaning lack of god. Many atheist are assumed to be irreligious, but this is often NOT the case. Many have spiritual beliefs and the like, they just don't believe in any deities. People these days tend to misconstrue many words and their actual meanings in todays society.

Careful With That Axe, Pichu!
July 8th, 2011, 09:50 AM
Agnostic what? (http://i.imgur.com/xXuNC.jpg)

With all due respect, that's none of your business. I am agnostic and that's all anyone needs to know; the only reason I stated it was to avoid prejudice against my reply... I'm sorry.

You know, I almost added a disclaimer to the end, stating "This of course doesn't apply to all religious people, only the ones that this topic is about, the ones who hate atheists".But know what, you didn't. :s However, I still think that no disclaimer would really ease the peremptory tone of your post.

Gymnotide
July 8th, 2011, 10:53 AM
I couldn't imagine myself being atheist, I mean, dying would literally be the end for them. (No afterlife)

Whilst that's true, Gymnotide, one, your approach to telling us that was totally abrasive, and two, generally, atheists don't believe in an afterlife, spiritual forces, etc. It's the minuscule minority who don't believe in a deity but do believe in other spiritual things.

Gymnotide, like townes said, that is true. But your approach was abrasive. It is things like this that are "the big deal fo atheism." People make big deals or are rude about it, and then they create a bad name for the others.

I'm agnostic, leaning towards deitism. I believe in plenty of spiritual stuff. I have plenty of atheist friends who believe in ghosts and spirits. Atheism comes from the Greek word atheos meaning lack of god. Many atheist are assumed to be irreligious, but this is often NOT the case. Many have spiritual beliefs and the like, they just don't believe in any deities. People these days tend to misconstrue many words and their actual meanings in todays society.

I laughed a bit at how serious you guys are taking this. However, I know you're good sports about it.

(1) The majority of "atheists" are actually non-deistic religious. Atheists are composed of the following: antireligious / irreligious / secular, Buddhism, Jainism, Carvaka, modern Hinduism, Taoism / Confucianism, Scientology, Spiritism, liberal Christianity, some Universal-Unitarianism, reform Judaism, some Vodoun, and many fringe religious (Neo-Paganism, Raelism, neo-indigenous religions, etc.). While it's probably useless to mention these in this thread, it needs to be pointed out that the latter half FAR outnumbers the anti/irr/sec atheists, but are still atheistic in practice. If this thread is going to mention how people discriminate against those who don't believe in God or god(s), we can't rule out the vast majority that somehow get exemption.

(2) Plenty of atheists believe in spiritual forces and the afterlife.

(3) I am not advocating atheism in any way, nor speaking on behalf of atheists. I am only mentioning the fact because this thread, like the countless others in its past, make a poor generalization of "atheism".

Esper
July 8th, 2011, 12:05 PM
I think it's not generalizing as much as we're talking about two different things and using the same word for them. For you (and others) atheism includes the non-deistic religions and can include people who believe in spiritual things while for others the word 'atheism' is not quite so technical and basically means (since there's no better term) a person who doesn't believe in supernatural things commonly associated with religion.

Soooo... when you say something like
Plenty of atheists believe in spiritual forces and the afterlife.it causes some confusion. I was skimming through this thread and was about to say something like "That doesn't make any sense. Where's your proof of that?" until I saw that we weren't talking about the exact same thing.

Gymnotide
July 8th, 2011, 12:39 PM
I think it's not generalizing as much as we're talking about two different things and using the same word for them. For you (and others) atheism includes the non-deistic religions and can include people who believe in spiritual things while for others the word 'atheism' is not quite so technical and basically means (since there's no better term) a person who doesn't believe in supernatural things commonly associated with religion.

Soooo... when you say something like
it causes some confusion. I was skimming through this thread and was about to say something like "That doesn't make any sense. Where's your proof of that?" until I saw that we weren't talking about the exact same thing.

My point was that you're addressing anti/irr/sec atheists specifically now, but some of the arguments in this thread target the overarching group of atheists. My other point was that's it's completely necessary to split deism and religiousness; we do have better terms for what you're addressing: antireligious (opposes religion), irreligious (does not follow religion), and secular (separates religion).

JimJams
July 8th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Agnostic what? (http://i.imgur.com/xXuNC.jpg)


I'm so glad that someone posted this! :D

Romantica
July 8th, 2011, 09:58 PM
You know, I almost added a disclaimer to the end, stating "This of course doesn't apply to all religious people, only the ones that this topic is about, the ones who hate atheists".

But you didn't, which basically made your entire post a great big assumption. A close-minded one at that. Bravo.


Anyway, no one can really speak for the Christian person that "hates" an atheist unless it's pertaining to themselves. I for one don't exactly hate anyone, but the minute someone decides to blatantly disrespect my beliefs in a fashion that most athiests I've encountered have done before, I will immediately write them off as not worth my time. I've met more atheists that have tried shoving their beliefs into my face before I've even gotten the chance to explain my actual beliefs other than the fact that I believe in God. It's a little ironic, considering that's the first complaint they run to whenever the subject comes up.

I once had a discussion (not an argument, as I am for gay marriage as well) with an atheist that fought fiercely for gay rights, using the argument "it doesn't affect your life, why should you have any say what they feel?". Quite funny when I turned that around on them when they just couldn't grasp the idea of me believing in a higher power.

FreakyLocz14
July 8th, 2011, 10:54 PM
Most people hate Atheists such as myself. I mean, what is the big deal? We don't have the same beliefs as you, do not try to convert us... If you want to, leave us be to believe what WE WANT.

If they respect me and my religion, I'll respect them and theirs.

Gymnotide
July 8th, 2011, 11:18 PM
But you didn't, which basically made your entire post a great big assumption. A close-minded one at that. Bravo.

I fail to see how that made his post an assumption if he openly admits that he was addressing a certain group. The only assumption that was made was that you would know what group he was posting about, but that isn't "close-minded". This thread is targeted at the individuals HarrisonH mentioned, so it's not like it was an inappropriate thing to say either. Yes, it may have been generalized, but it's more immature than anything to overlook his admittance of that fact.

Though, in posting this, I am also perpetuating a discussion that ought not happen; I'd rather not see this get replied to.

However, back to the actual discussion:

Anyway, no one can really speak for the Christian person that "hates" an atheist unless it's pertaining to themselves. I for one don't exactly hate anyone, but the minute someone decides to blatantly disrespect my beliefs in a fashion that most athiests I've encountered have done before, I will immediately write them off as not worth my time. I've met more atheists that have tried shoving their beliefs into my face before I've even gotten the chance to explain my actual beliefs other than the fact that I believe in God. It's a little ironic, considering that's the first complaint they run to whenever the subject comes up.

I'm not against your viewpoint in anyway, but are you sure that this is the true majority? Are you sure you aren't just noticing them because they do that (overshadowing the atheists who don't say a word)? I know that as an atheist-secular myself, I prefer to stay out of religious discussion simply because faith is a death-zone to a lot of people. I'm aware that there are atheist-antireligious who are more bellicose about their beliefs, but I also know that plenty of atheist-irreligious and atheist-secular people are rather friendly and avoid the useless rabble. Of course, it might also be your area specifically.

Overall, I feel like the whole thing is blown out of proportion anyway. It's not hard to imagine why atheist-irr/sec get angry at religion (and become atheist-anti) when there are so many religious individuals who are overly forward. I'm not saying that most are like that, but (like the phenomena I mentioned above) religion-pushers have some magical ability to overshadow others of their faith. Both sides have angry people who get angry at each other--and this makes it a lot easier to feel antagonistic toward the whole.

Also, the other day, I was approached by this extremely kind lady in the park while I was with my boyfriend; she handed the both of us a pamphlet about God and told us to convert to save us from our sins. For me, it was a major annoyance; my boyfriend, who is Catholic already, was also bothered. So it's not really like it's a two-sided war either. But, I feel like this thread is framed like it is.

The Void
July 9th, 2011, 03:09 AM
Some really religious people just look down on people and think, "Oh, he's an atheist, he won't be saved. He will die for eternal blah blah blah" and all that stuff.

They think that being with them will make them "die eternally" or whatever so they stay away from the atheist. (Yes, this is almost similar to racism.)

Of course not all people are like that. Some befriend atheists, no matter what religion they are.

It can also be an atheist who thinks rude stuff. He looks down on the religious guy and says, "You believe in God and that's wrong. God didn't create humans, humans created blah blah blah blah" and they will try to prove things to them or even threaten them.

I don't really care what your belief is, "No God" or "There is a God" or "There are gods" or even "I am God." I respect you people's beliefs.

As long as you have a nice friendly attitude and as long as you don't kill or harm people, anyone could be my friend...

Yup even you, NDogg45. A complete stranger I have no idea about.

So, that's the big deal with atheism. Now that I'm done with my awesome speech, I shall return to watching my anime thingy...

JimJams
July 9th, 2011, 09:34 AM
Try to prove things? You mean with logic, reason and even the dreaded science? Oh no!

And anyone who would go so far as to threaten someone for their beliefs is indeed an immense uh..butt. I do agree with you there.

Oryx
July 9th, 2011, 10:02 AM
Try to prove things? You mean with logic, reason and even the dreaded science? Oh no!

If it's not asked for, it's just not polite to try to "prove things" to someone who hasn't tried to argue with you about religion, that's the point that he was trying to make.

Akio123
July 9th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Lemme start by saying, I too am an Athiest.

Alright, it's been said before it has to do with how people are raised. It boils down to people not understanding people different than they are. I mean being predisposed to certain beliefs and being completely engulfed in them makes it harder for others to accept them. It's why such a thing as moral relativism exists.

Romantica
July 10th, 2011, 03:58 PM
I'm not against your viewpoint in anyway, but are you sure that this is the true majority? Are you sure you aren't just noticing them because they do that (overshadowing the atheists who don't say a word)? I know that as an atheist-secular myself, I prefer to stay out of religious discussion simply because faith is a death-zone to a lot of people. I'm aware that there are atheist-antireligious who are more bellicose about their beliefs, but I also know that plenty of atheist-irreligious and atheist-secular people are rather friendly and avoid the useless rabble. Of course, it might also be your area specifically.

Overall, I feel like the whole thing is blown out of proportion anyway. It's not hard to imagine why atheist-irr/sec get angry at religion (and become atheist-anti) when there are so many religious individuals who are overly forward. I'm not saying that most are like that, but (like the phenomena I mentioned above) religion-pushers have some magical ability to overshadow others of their faith. Both sides have angry people who get angry at each other--and this makes it a lot easier to feel antagonistic toward the whole.

Also, the other day, I was approached by this extremely kind lady in the park while I was with my boyfriend; she handed the both of us a pamphlet about God and told us to convert to save us from our sins. For me, it was a major annoyance; my boyfriend, who is Catholic already, was also bothered. So it's not really like it's a two-sided war either. But, I feel like this thread is framed like it is.

I don't really remember saying that I was talking about the "true majority", in fact I purposely avoided stating that in my post because I don't like generalizing in discussions such as this. I was referring to the majority that I myself have personally encountered that have left a sour taste in my mouth the same way obnoxious Christians come across to atheists. I fully respect other people's beliefs unless they give me a reason not to, such as trying to belittle mine. It may be a little immature, but that's an admitted weakness since I'm a bit prideful.

Also, if I were in a situation like you'd mentioned above I'd also have been bothered, being a Catholic myself. I actually remember being invited to a friend's Baptist youth group when I was younger that deliberately stated my religion was wrong and the way I worshiped was completely wrong. So not only is this not a two-sided war, it's also pretty bad that there are wars between neighboring religions. It'll never stop though.

Aorio
July 15th, 2011, 01:47 PM
I am an Atheist. But I suppose I'm Agnostic, really, because I don't believe in God, but at the same time I am open to any ideas.
According to Wikipedia, almost 80% of the American population is Christian. Only 16% are unaffiliated (Atheist or Agnostic). Most of my friends are Christian, my boyfriend is Christian. I love these people to death. We have no boundaries between us just because of our differing views.
There will always be good Atheists and bad Atheists, and by the same token good Christians and bad Christians. What bothers me about a lot of Christians I encounter (I truly am not trying to generalize) is that as soon as they find out I'm not religious, they look at me as if I'm less of a person. So many of them judge me. It's terrible. And of course, just because I don't believe in God, I'm automatically going to Hell, no matter how many good and just things I've done in my life, you look at me, see that I'm not Christian, and put me in this category of my own with the other 16% of the population labeled HELL. And yet, I'm just like anybody else.. I love my life. I've never touched drugs or cigarettes. I'm a virgin. I'm very kind. My morals are in all the right places. I don't judge you because you believe in what I never have. I don't judge you because of what you grew up being taught. I leave alone, so why can't you return the favor? Why can't you understand me? Why do you label me? Why do you shun me?

Gymnotide
July 16th, 2011, 03:08 AM
I don't really remember saying that I was talking about the "true majority", in fact I purposely avoided stating that in my post because I don't like generalizing in discussions such as this. I was referring to the majority that I myself have personally encountered that have left a sour taste in my mouth the same way obnoxious Christians come across to atheists. I fully respect other people's beliefs unless they give me a reason not to, such as trying to belittle mine. It may be a little immature, but that's an admitted weakness since I'm a bit prideful.

Also, if I were in a situation like you'd mentioned above I'd also have been bothered, being a Catholic myself. I actually remember being invited to a friend's Baptist youth group when I was younger that deliberately stated my religion was wrong and the way I worshiped was completely wrong. So not only is this not a two-sided war, it's also pretty bad that there are wars between neighboring religions. It'll never stop though.

I meant "true majority" meaning in respect to you.

wcdaily
July 16th, 2011, 09:56 AM
I consider myself a agnostic atheist because I don't currently follow religion but I won't downright say their is no god, as that be closed minded thinking and limits my beliefs and ideas. If their is actual proof of god I wouldn't deny it, unless I have a good reason to deny it. (For now I have no proof.) I don't hate you guys and I don't consider us superior. You have your beliefs and I have our belief, and that is my belief.

Now guys just stop arguing and get along.

Yoshimi
July 16th, 2011, 05:09 PM
Anyway, no one can really speak for the Christian person that "hates" an atheist unless it's pertaining to themselves. I for one don't exactly hate anyone, but the minute someone decides to blatantly disrespect my beliefs in a fashion that most athiests I've encountered have done before, I will immediately write them off as not worth my time. I've met more atheists that have tried shoving their beliefs into my face before I've even gotten the chance to explain my actual beliefs other than the fact that I believe in God. It's a little ironic, considering that's the first complaint they run to whenever the subject comes up.

This has actually been my experience with most open atheists. I know they aren't the majority by a long shot, but as a whole they're more annoying than any openly religious person that I've met.

Maybe that's the big deal with 'em.

Mr. X
July 16th, 2011, 06:01 PM
All I can say about athiests is that, well, when you die you've got a 50% chance of going to Hell. (I hope that someone understands this. I've had to explain this particular statement in numerous discussions about religion)

Personally, I don't care what you beleive in. You don't try shoving your beliefs down my throat and i'll won't try shoving my beliefs down yours.

That said, im Agnostic.

Yoshimi
July 16th, 2011, 06:09 PM
All I can say about athiests is that, well, when you die you've got a 50% chance of going to Hell. (I hope that someone understands this. I've had to explain this particular statement in numerous discussions about religion)

That's…that's not true at all actually. It's very wrong considering how many different religions there are.

(It also sounds a lot like Pascal's wager which is an awful scare tactic not based on any evidence whatsoever, but you didn't say it in such a way)