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View Full Version : [Gen V] Gen V DW: Anti-Meta Knights (Balanced Hail Team)


KeitaroU7
July 18th, 2011, 07:49 AM
Anti-Meta Knights

Heya everyone! Been working on this team for a bit to counter the meta game ruled by Sandstorm, Sun and Rain and Its been working out well. I want this team to not only counter other weather teams, but also be viable against other teams as well. Also, I am looking for any possible item changes for battles with item clauses. Thanks!

~Team Building Process~

For any hail team, the standard pokemon is none other than old Abomasnow. While he is a weather inducer, he does have several weaknesses that can easily take him out.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.png

So, for starters, I wanted to have start with pokemon that could help cover his weakness. One of the most common now is Fighting. So to help start the team off strong and to cover that weakness, I added Sableye.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.png

Next, I needed to add it something that resisted rock, but also acted as a rapid spinner. That's when Excadrill came to mind. Not only can he do both, he can also become a fearsome sweeper if my opponent uses sandstorm on me.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/530.png

Sadly, this left the team with 2 weakness' to fighting and fire. So I needed counters for both I decided to use Dragonite next as it could cover those weaknesses and resist several other types as well. Not only that, but she can act as both a phazer and parashifter. This way, she can help speed up some of the slower members on the team.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/149.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/530.png

Now the last 2 slots were a bit tricky. I needed pokemon that could give me another cover over fighting, rock and fire again. So I decided to give Nidoking a try. Not only does he resist both fighting and rock, he's immune to sandstorms, resists SR, absorbs toxic spikes and can benefit from a paralyzed pokemon to better sweep.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/149.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/530.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/034.png

Now, the last member needed to resist fire again and I figured the team slower members could use some other speed support and after fighting someone using it, Shell Smash came to mind. After some research, I found that the one of the few shell smash baton passers was Gorebyss, so I decided to use her. Not only could she pass to the slower members of the team (particularly Nidoking), she could also sweep heavily in the rain due to her swift swim ability.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/368.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/149.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/530.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/034.png

Now, after some testing, I found that it was rather difficult to pull off the shell smash pass to Nidoking due to her lack of bulk. So the team needed another resister to fire, so another water type was needed. After some trial and error, I decided to use Rotom-W. Thanks to its all around stats and epic typing, it could really do some damage, and its only weakness was covered by the rest of the team.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/479-wash.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/149.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/530.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/034.png

After some more testing, I found that Dragonite wasn't doing it's job very well as it had problems paralyzing pokemon at times. Also, without being in sandstorm constantly, Excadrill didn't work very well either, so I took them out as well. With Excadrill gone, the team was in need of another rapid spinner, as well as another pokemon to take fighting attacks. In past hail teams I've done, Tentacreul filled in those holes rather nicely, so I decided to give him a try and he worked out well for a while. To fill in the need for a rock resist, I looked to Hariyama. Not only does he have great bulk, but also resists fire and ice due to his Thick Fat ability.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/479-wash.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/297.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/073.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/034.png

With the addition of Tentacruel, there was no need to have Nidoking there as without shell smash support, he wasn't doing as well as I'd hoped (plus 3 weakness to psychic). The team preformed decent regardless of that, but I felt it was becoming more defensive than I wanted it to be. So, after doing much research, I found one pokemon that could do the job both Hariyama and Tentacruel does in one fell swoop: Hitmontop. Not only did he cover the rock weakness and was a rapid spinner, he also has the ability to quickly kill off pokemon with Mach Punch (OHKOing T-tar to my surprise).

So, with Hitmontop in the mix, Hariyama and Tentacreul were taken out. With no more Nidoking, the team needed another rock and fighting resistance. These roles were left off to Heatran and Gliscor who can wall both very well and who's weaknesses are covered through out the team.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/479-wash.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/237.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/485.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/472.png
After A LOT of testing, I decided to change Hitmontop with good old Conkeldurr. While he doesn't carry rapid spin, he is far more bulkier and more destructive. Also, I have come to realize that entry hazards can be dealt with Taunt on 2 of the pokemon of this team.
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/479-wash.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/534.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/485.pnghttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/472.png




http://pokebattlecenter.net/sprites/302.gif http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.png@ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 132 SDef / 4 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
Sableye starts off as an anti-lead for the team but can come back and serve other purposes. Thanks to its epic ability of Prankster, it allows 3/4 of its move set to have +1 priority which can cripple many other leads. Taunt will stop other leads (except faster ones with Prankster i.e. Thunderus and Tornadus) from setting up entry hazards. This set is extremely effective against lead T-Tar as you can stop it from setting up, then WoW to cripple it further. From there, you can either cause a switch, or recover to wait it out until they are KOed. Since it has recover, it didn't really need leftovers. That being said, I swapped it for Rocky Helmet to deal some more damage to pokemon trying to make contact with it. Also, it has 4 Spd to outspeed other Sableye leads.

Sableye can be used later in battle as a physical crippler by coming in on things it resists, Taunt to stop it from buffing and then wow to cripple it. Foul Play allows you to deal a lot of damage as it doesn't use any of Sable's average stats for it. However, be weary of Conkeldurr who becomes scary after being burned. Something else to watch is that Taunt can cripple this set. However, with Foul Play, Magic Guard pokemon (Xatu and Espeon) can still take a lot of damage from it.

http://pokebattlecenter.net/sprites/460.gif http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/460.png@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake
The key to the team. It is very important to keep Abomasnow alive at least until your opponent's weather inducer is gone. Snow acts as the teams revenge killer as it can quickly come in on many threats, quickly take out, then switch out again. This set allows Snow to be faster than max speed Thunderus and Tornadus and kill them with Stab Blizzard. This set can also come in and take out opposing weather inducers as well. Blizzard for T-tar, Wood Hammer for Politoad and Earthquake for Ninetales. HP Fire are for Ferrothorn, Scizor and Genosect that try to switch in on it and set up. He is also an effective Dragon killer as so long as they aren't scarfed, he can OHKO most of them (apart from Haxorus and Dragonite)

Be careful when deal with faster pokemon and priority moves. Most super effective moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch can take out Snow and if before their weather inducer dies can leave you in a bad position.

http://pokebattlecenter.net/sprites/479-W.gifhttp://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/479-wash.png@ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpAtk / 144 Spd
ModestNature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-Wisp
- Pain Split
Old Rotom got a bit of an upgrade when it moved to this gen. With the removal of its Ghost typing, it loses its immunity to fightning. However, it gains epic typing with only one weakness, grass, that is easily dealt with on the team (especially in combination with Heatran, who he has excellent synergy with). This version of Rotom makes it much more bulkier and still able to dish out serious damage. Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump for STAB, WoW for physical sweepers as well as to wear down walls and Pain Split to help heal itself.

Rotom has to watch out for the few inbetween grass moves that some pokemon carry (usually in HP) which will cause it to not stick around as long as it would like to.

http://pokebattlecenter.net/sprites/237.gif http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/534.png@ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback
Replacing Hitmontop on the team, he is a huge asset with his bulkiness and destructive power. Conkeldurr can tank many physical attacks and even Special Attacks then come and punish them. Bulk Up is to help it take and dish out more, Mach Punch for quick and powerful revenge kills (enough to nearly OHKO Tyranitar without a Bulk Up), Drain Punch is to deal damage and keep it alive and Payback is for pesky ghost types that resist everything else.

Conkeldurr while powerful should not press his luck against all special attacks as Special Defense is still low. Also, Conkeldurr must watch out for the likes of Psycho Shock which can easily OHKO him and usually these are on pokemon much faster than he is.
http://pokebattlecenter.net/sprites/485.gif http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/485.png@ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock
After first trying an offensive one, I was suggested to try a more Specially defensive variant and I love it! No longer does it have to worry about being OHKOed when hit from the special side (at least from attacks he's not weak to and even some he is). Toxic is to wear down things that try to wall him that isn't immune to poison. Lava Plume is used over Flamethrower as I prefer the 30% burn rate that comes from it. Originally, Heatran carried Dragon Pulse to take out dragons, however HP Ice is much more effective. Not only that, it can help against the likes of Tyranitar and his partner Gliscor. Stealth Rock is for set up either as a lead or when it scares something off.

While it has its weaknesses to common types like ground, water and fighting, the rest of the team can take or resist those moves with ease.

http://pokebattlecenter.net/sprites/472.gif http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/472.png
@ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Taunt

Gliscor became a godsend when it gained its DW ability. With Poison Heal, Gliscor fits perfectly on this team as it gets back more health then it loses to hail. Not only that, but thanks to its Ground Typing, it is immune to sandstorm and becomes a great counter to T-tar. Not only that, this set is made in mind to take out fighting types (particularly, Conkeldurr and Breloom). This version of him is much bulkier than his Fling variant and I feel its for the better. It works the same way, but can take Physical attacks more better than before especially with WoW support from the rest of the team. Sword Dance to set up on what he can wall, Earthquake for STAB, Ice Fang for other Gliscor walls and Taunt to prevent something setting up on him.

As bulky as he is, Gliscor must be weary of fighting pokemon with ice punch as well as water types. These can make short work of him if not careful.

Threats:
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/530.pngExcadrill- While a huge problem in sandstorm, he is brought down to size if you swap in Abomasnow. Also, Gliscor and Rotom can switch in on his are also great counters as it can coming on its Earthquakes and Earthquaking him back or using Hydro Pump when there's no sandstorm.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/534.pngConkeldurr- Gliscor is the best counter to him as he can set up on him and sweep him.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/635.pngHydreigon- So long as he isn't scarfed, Abomasnow can OHKO Hydreigon with STAB Blizzard. If he is however, Conkeldurr can help make work of him.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/637.pngVolcarona- Heatran and Rotom-W are the best counters to it depending on what HP it holds. HP fighting can cause problems for heatran while HP grass can do some damage to Rotom.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/639.pngTerrakion- Sableye and Rotom can switch into him and WoW to cripple its power while Gliscor can wall most, if not all of its attacks, set up and sweep him.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/645.pngLandorus- Scarfed Abomsnow is the best counter to him as it can OHKO it with blizzard.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/609.pngChandelure- Chandelure can be a huge problem for Abomasnow thanks to Shadow Tag and often times, comes in when it OHKOs something (Like Landorus or Thunderous). If it doesn't have it, then Heatran and Rotom can swap into his attacks and the later can strike him back with Hydro Pump (however his must be weary of its grass attacks).
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/612.pngHaxorus- So long as its not scarfed, Abomasnow can make short work of him with Blizzard as well. Without him, Heatran can work him down by walling its Dragon attacks and Gliscor taking its fighing moves.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/640.pngVirizion- Virizion can be crippled by either Sableye or Rotom with WoW (with the latter worrying about its grass attacks Then he becomes more manageable for the team to take on. Gliscor can set up and sweep him with Ice Fang even without crippling it.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/642.pngThundurus- OHKOed by scarfed Abomasnow.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/560.pngScrafty- Scrafty can be dealt with by both Conkeldurr and Gliscor who both hold STAB moves he's weak against. Sableye can also WoW him and wear him down that way.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/579.pngReuniclus- Reuniclus is not a problem as it can be easily walled by Sableye and worn down with Foul Play.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/494.pngVictini- Heatran and Rotom can come in on its Fire-moves then the later can take it out with Hydro Pump. With proper prediction, Gliscor can take him out with Earthquake as well.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/620.pngMienshao- Can be easily crippled and walled by Sableye even when it tries to U-turn away.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/555.pngDarmanitan- Darmanitan can be walled by Heatran, Rotom and Gliscor respectively and taken out with the latter's ground moves as well as Hydro Pump.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/647.pngKeldeo- can be walled by Heatran and Gliscor respectively with its attacks and warn down that way.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/649.pngGenesect- Surprisingly enough, Abomasnow can OHKO it with HP fire on the switch as well as Rotom-W. Thanks to its resistance, Conkeldurr can also wall its U-turns.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/641.pngTornadus- Can be OHKOed by Abomasnow.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/380.pngLatias- Heatran walls its HP Ice while Conkeldurr and Sableye can kill it with Foul Play and Payback respectively.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/445.pngGarchomp- So long as its not scarfed, it can be OHKOed by Abomasnow. Heatran can come and wall its Dragon Attacks if locked in by Outrage and HP Ice it to death.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/373.pngSalamence- Same as Garchomp.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/091.pngCloyster- Very tricky to take out. If not careful, he can do serious damage to the team. Sableye can Taunt it to prevent it from shell smashing and/or burn it to cut down on its power. From there, Rotom can easily take it out with Thunderbolt.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/186.pngPolitoed- Abomasnow can switch in on Politoed and take away its rain and Wood Hammer it. It must be careful of Scald as if burnt, it can take longer to wail him down.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/003.pngVenusaur- Abomasnow can come in on him and take away its sun, then be fast enough to Blizzard it to death.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/038.pngNinetails- Abomasnow and Gliscor can come in on her and Earthquake it. However, it is better if it is weakened as Ninetales doesn't OHKO to EQ if its bulky. Heatran can also come in on it's fire attacks, but must swap out for fear of its HP Fighting.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/454.pngToxicroak- Can be walled by Gliscor and taken out with Earthquake.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/286.pngBreloom- Surprisingly enough, Gliscor can kill it with Ice Fang without much problem. Abomasnow can switch into him and take Spore and Leech Seed.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/132.pngDitto- Ditto is a little tricky depending on who it copies. Thankfully, the team can take out each other in some way so he isn't a problem.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/212.pngScizor- Abomasnow can OHKO it with HP Fire on the switch as well as Heatran with Lava Plume. However, the latter must worry about Superpower so WoWing it helps Heatran take him on.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/272.pngLudicolo- Abomasnow can come in on its attacks and wall them completely. He also removes rain shutting Ludicolo down completely.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/376.pngMetagross- Gliscor is a great counter to him as it can wall a lot of its attacks and Earthquake it to death after a Sword Dance or 2. Heatran can also take it out with Lava Plume, but must fear being OHKOed by Earthquake
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/392.pngInfernape- Heatran and Rotom can wall its fire attacks while Gliscor can take fighting attacks then finish it with Earthquake.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/485.pngHeatran- Heatran can take Heatran's attacks except Earth Power while Rotom can. Both of which can proceed to take it out. Abomasnow can OHKO it with earthquake so long as it doesn't have balloon on it.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/149.pngDragonite- Dragonite can be burned by Sableye messing up its Multiscale protection and then be OHKOed by Abomasnow so long as it hasn't Dragon Danced.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/547.pngWhimsicott- Whimsicott is walled completely by Abomasnow as it can resist all its grass attacks and counter it with Blizzard.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/385.pngJirachi- Jirachi can be walled and countered by Heatran using Lava Plume. Gliscor can also Earthquake it to death after a few boost.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/479-wash.pngRotom-W- Abomasnow is the best counter to him as he is the only one with a grass move. However, He must be weary of HP Fire that Rotom carries so weakening him down with others help.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/130.pngGyarados- SR aids in taking him down, but this guy is walled and taken out by Rotom and Thunderbolt.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/245.pngSuicune- Abomasnow can wall and wood hammer him down. Rotom can attack with Thunderbolt but it can do very little if it Calm Mind first.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/141.pngKabutops- Abomasnow can come in on it and disrupt its sweep with hail, tho it must be weary of stone edge, superpower and Low Kick. If you come in on Aqua Jet, you can easily take him out with Wood Hammer. Rotom can also wall his water attacks and counter with Thunderbolt the same way.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/248.pngTyranitar- While the bane of hail teams, he is not a problem on this one. Abomasnow can disrupt its hail and usually OHKO it with Blizzard depending on the EV build. Conkeldurr can come in and OHKO it with Drain Punch or 2HKO with Mach Punch. Gliscor is also an excellent counter to him as it can wall most of its attacks except ice beam.
http://media.pldh.net/pokecons/472.pngGliscor- When combined with Tyranitar, he becomes very annoying to take out. As the 2 of them can swap into each other's weaknesses. Abomasnow can be great help with its Scarfed Blizzard as well as Rotom with Hydro Pump. He can also burn Tyranitar on the switch and hinder what it can do.

Fairy
July 18th, 2011, 10:26 AM
http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite/302.png@ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 132 SDef / 4 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
Sableye starts off as an anti-lead for the team but can come back and serve other purposes. Thanks to its epic ability of Prankster, it allows 3/4 of its move set to have +1 priority which can cripple many other leads. Taunt will stop other leads (except faster ones with Prankster i.e. Thunderus and Tornadus) from setting up entry hazards. This set is extremely effective against lead T-Tar as you can stop it from setting up, then WoW to cripple it further. From there, you can either cause a switch, or recover to wait it out until they are KOed. Since it has recover, it didn't really need leftovers. That being said, I swapped it for Rocky Helmet to deal some more damage to pokemon trying to make contact with it. Also, it has 4 Spd to outspeed other Sableye leads.

Sableye can be used later in battle as a physical crippler by coming in on things it resists, Taunt to stop it from buffing and then wow to cripple it. Foul Play allows you to deal a lot of damage as it doesn't use any of Sable's average stats for it. However, be weary of Conkeldurr who becomes scary after being burned. Something else to watch is that Taunt can cripple this set. However, with Foul Play, Magic Guard pokemon (Xatu and Espeon) can still take a lot of damage from it.


Now.. I am not well versed in the ways of Sableye.

At all. :x

So to me, when I see Sableye on this team, I have to wonder, "Well, why not Spiritomb?" (Spiritomb being in UU as opposed to the tier Sableye is in which... is pretty low on the list). I realize that the only thing they have in common is their typing, but you did say that your intentions for using Sableye are to use it's resistances to cover Abomasnow. That being said, unlike Sableye, Spiritomb doesn't not have Prankster and I can see why that is a fairly attractive ability. Following that train of thought, Spiritomb's Speed is... crippled, to say the least. That only deepens the issue of having Spiritomb as a Lead, which to my knowledge, wouldn't work.

Anyway, I'm going to give you two viable sets for Spiritomb.
http://imgboot.com/images/aragornbird/442.gif
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Pressure
252 HP / 132 Defense / 100 Sp.Attack / 24 Sp.Defense
Calm [+Sp.Defense; -Attack]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power [Fighting] / Psychic

This set is a conventional ResTalk Spiritomb. STAB Dark Pulse. You get the picture. However, Will-O-Wisp has limited synergy with Rest and Sleep Talk, but it will help against any Steel or Fighting types who want to flex their resistances to Dark. It's a good choice for a Defensive Pokemon like Spiritomb. The only thing about this set that is variable (barring the EV's which can be distributed differently if you want more Special Attack and a lesser split between Defense and Special Defense) is the bottom slot for moves. Psychic is not a common choice when running a Spiritomb. But you did say that you wanted a good Fighting counter so.. there you go. HP Fighting in combination with Dark Pulse gives you near perfect coverage, so you may find that beneficial.

This next set, I feel, is a little more or less like your Sableye.
http://imgboot.com/images/aragornbird/442.gif
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Pressure
252 HP / 172 Attack / 84 Sp.Defense
Careful [+Sp.Defense; -Sp.Attack]
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt / Pursuit

Recovery, is such another, that Sableye has over Spiritomb. Spiritomb just does not possess a reliable recovery move beyond Rest, so Pain Split is another option. Just think of it like you're surrendering recovery for priority. Sucker Punch can really make Spiritomb shine given the right circumstances. This set is a little awkward, but it has some good disruptive characteristics. Taunt and Pursuit are two excellent choices for this set as well. You're not exactly capitalizing on Spiritomb's Special Attack or Defensive attributes, but Sucker Punch just might make it all worthwhile. Just remember that this has less potential for covering Abomasnow very well.

Anyway.. maybe Spiritomb is something to look into, maybe it isn't. Far be it for me to say that Sableye has no competitive value whatsoever.

However, I do suggest that you replace Sableye as your lead for Heatran and give it Taunt > Toxic and Fire Blast > Lava Plume.

Hope this helped! :)

KeitaroU7
July 18th, 2011, 10:37 AM
Now.. I am not well versed in the ways of Sableye.

At all. :x

So to me, when I see Sableye on this team, I have to wonder, "Well, why not Spiritomb?" (Spiritomb being in UU as opposed to the tier Sableye is in which... is pretty low on the list). I realize that the only thing they have in common is their typing, but you did say that your intentions for using Sableye are to use it's resistances to cover Abomasnow. That being said, unlike Sableye, Spiritomb doesn't not have Prankster and I can see why that is a fairly attractive ability. Following that train of thought, Spiritomb's Speed is... crippled, to say the least. That only deepens the issue of having Spiritomb as a Lead, which to my knowledge, wouldn't work.

Anyway, I'm going to give you two viable sets for Spiritomb.
http://imgboot.com/images/aragornbird/442.gif
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Pressure
252 HP / 132 Defense / 100 Sp.Attack / 24 Sp.Defense
Calm [+Sp.Defense; -Attack]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power [Fighting] / Psychic

This set is a conventional ResTalk Spiritomb. STAB Dark Pulse. You get the picture. However, Will-O-Wisp has limited synergy with Rest and Sleep Talk, but it will help against any Steel or Fighting types who want to flex their resistances to Dark. It's a good choice for a Defensive Pokemon like Spiritomb. The only thing about this set that is variable (barring the EV's which can be distributed differently if you want more Special Attack and a lesser split between Defense and Special Defense) is the bottom slot for moves. Psychic is not a common choice when running a Spiritomb. But you did say that you wanted a good Fighting counter so.. there you go. HP Fighting in combination with Dark Pulse gives you near perfect coverage, so you may find that beneficial.

This next set, I feel, is a little more or less like your Sableye.
http://imgboot.com/images/aragornbird/442.gif
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Pressure
252 HP / 172 Attack / 84 Sp.Defense
Careful [+Sp.Defense; -Sp.Attack]
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt / Pursuit

Recovery, is such another, that Sableye has over Spiritomb. Spiritomb just does not possess a reliable recovery move beyond Rest, so Pain Split is another option. Just think of it like you're surrendering recovery for priority. Sucker Punch can really make Spiritomb shine given the right circumstances. This set is a little awkward, but it has some good disruptive characteristics. Taunt and Pursuit are two excellent choices for this set as well. You're not exactly capitalizing on Spiritomb's Special Attack or Defensive attributes, but Sucker Punch just might make it all worthwhile. Just remember that this has less potential for covering Abomasnow very well.

Anyway.. maybe Spiritomb is something to look into, maybe it isn't. Far be it for me to say that Sableye has no competitive value whatsoever.

However, I do suggest that you replace Sableye as your lead for Heatran and give it Taunt > Toxic and Fire Blast > Lava Plume.

Hope this helped! :)

I can see where you'd think that Sableye isn't great, but it's one of the best OU DW pokemon out there. As a lead, Prankster can shut down pokemon trying to set up anything. If up against an attacking lead, it can use Will-o-Wisp to cut their strength in half (since most attacking leads are physical attackers). All of this before your opponent can make a move. It only falls short to any other Prankster users as they are faster then Sableye, or from Espeon/Xatu or Magic Coat. If it gets Taunted, most of its moveset is gone. I have had this guy take on and kill 3 pokemon in a row just by burning and using Foul Play. He's an absolute monster @_@

For Heatran, it doesn't need taunt since 2 pokemon on the team have it and Lava Plume is there for the possibility to burn. Always nice if you can't poison something with Toxic.

Thank you for the look over :)

Perrie ✿
July 18th, 2011, 10:40 AM
This seems like a pretty decent team with Abomasnow thrown in. Seriously; there are no hail abusers, and hail doesn't help this team at all.

KeitaroU7
July 18th, 2011, 11:29 AM
This seems like a pretty decent team with Abomasnow thrown in. Seriously; there are no hail abusers, and hail doesn't help this team at all.

It is a hail team, but the point of it isn't so much to abuse hail, its to get rid of other weathers. Hence the team's name. Abomasnow comes in on other weather makers or abusers, shuts them down and takes them out. Even without other weathers, the team preforms great and no one on it minds the hail damage.

flamehaze94
July 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM
This looks like a solid team and although I'm not too well-versed in the DW metagame (I think its stupid :/), I'm pretty sure Rain is a big part of it. Let me illustrate some common threats that, in the rain, can cause big damage to this team. One of the most popular Rain abusers is Starmie that can 2HKO the entire team with LO boosted Hydro Pumps alone. Changing the weather is hard due the sheer offensive presence of most Rain teams. Furthermore, you don't have a Spinner so coming in everytime on Rocks and strong Water attacks will down it quickly. Politoed fears Rotom-W but it can do the same with Specs Hydro Pump should Rotom-W be below half health. There's also Keldeo to deal with in DW and Abomsnow doesn't even kill it with Wood Hammer. CB Gyarados can spam Waterfall on everything and likrly outspeed Rotom-W and 2HKO that too. The main point of the long-winded paragraph is that once a Rain sweeper comes in, something will die. And yes, they can come in quite easily too; Abomasnow Blizzards, Heatran, Conkeldurr, Gliscor, etc.

Therefore, I'll suggest the mighty Gastrodon over Rotom-W. Why? Storm Drain lets you switch into Politoed / Starmie with ease and completely wall them. A simple set of Earth Power / Ice Beam (or Blizzard) / Toxic / Recover can work wonders. On my Hail team I'm using the defensive core of Skarmory, Heatran, and Gastrodon to support dual dragon sweep and it's working out fairly successfully. It also beats Latios 1 vs 1 should you find Heatran in low health.

Erm... yeah, not much else to say since you have most threats covered. Speaking of threats, some of your threat list is inaccurate. For example, you said Abomasnow might kill Tyranitar with Blizzard, but that's never going to happen... like ever lol. You have it Tyranitar covered, you do, I'm just nitpicking right now. I won't even mention Chandelure (is that thing Uber yet?) because it's that much of a bastard.

KeitaroU7
July 20th, 2011, 06:11 AM
This looks like a solid team and although I'm not too well-versed in the DW metagame (I think its stupid :/), I'm pretty sure Rain is a big part of it. Let me illustrate some common threats that, in the rain, can cause big damage to this team. One of the most popular Rain abusers is Starmie that can 2HKO the entire team with LO boosted Hydro Pumps alone. Changing the weather is hard due the sheer offensive presence of most Rain teams. Furthermore, you don't have a Spinner so coming in everytime on Rocks and strong Water attacks will down it quickly. Politoed fears Rotom-W but it can do the same with Specs Hydro Pump should Rotom-W be below half health. There's also Keldeo to deal with in DW and Abomsnow doesn't even kill it with Wood Hammer. CB Gyarados can spam Waterfall on everything and likrly outspeed Rotom-W and 2HKO that too. The main point of the long-winded paragraph is that once a Rain sweeper comes in, something will die. And yes, they can come in quite easily too; Abomasnow Blizzards, Heatran, Conkeldurr, Gliscor, etc.

Therefore, I'll suggest the mighty Gastrodon over Rotom-W. Why? Storm Drain lets you switch into Politoed / Starmie with ease and completely wall them. A simple set of Earth Power / Ice Beam (or Blizzard) / Toxic / Recover can work wonders. On my Hail team I'm using the defensive core of Skarmory, Heatran, and Gastrodon to support dual dragon sweep and it's working out fairly successfully. It also beats Latios 1 vs 1 should you find Heatran in low health.

Erm... yeah, not much else to say since you have most threats covered. Speaking of threats, some of your threat list is inaccurate. For example, you said Abomasnow might kill Tyranitar with Blizzard, but that's never going to happen... like ever lol. You have it Tyranitar covered, you do, I'm just nitpicking right now. I won't even mention Chandelure (is that thing Uber yet?) because it's that much of a bastard.


Thank you for looking things over. :) I have to say I haven't had any problems with rain teams since a lot of them are predictable. Abomasnow can switch into water attacks competely nulling their boost from the rain and forcing a switch and with the right preditction (usually counter for Abomasnow on a rain team is Scizor or more commonly Ferrothorn), they can get OHKOed. Granted, all the starmie I've gone up against haven't been on rain teams, but they haven't been much of an issue for me.

Tyranitar is no problem from Abomasnow. Most people who use it don't use the Specially Defensive version, so they are easy pickings for him (Specially Defensive version is 2HKOed by Blizzard tho if Stone Edge hits then Abomasnow is done).

While Gastrodon is great, the 1 reason I won't swap him with Rotom-W is for 1 pokemon that walls this team: Slowbro. While I haven't seen many, without Rotom's STAB thunderbolt, its a PAIN/near impossible to take him out ~_~

flamehaze94
July 20th, 2011, 05:01 PM
I already have my damage calculator out, so I might as well respond :)

Thank you for looking things over. :) I have to say I haven't had any problems with rain teams since a lot of them are predictable. Abomasnow can switch into water attacks competely nulling their boost from the rain and forcing a switch and with the right preditction (usually counter for Abomasnow on a rain team is Scizor or more commonly Ferrothorn), they can get OHKOed. Granted, all the starmie I've gone up against haven't been on rain teams, but they haven't been much of an issue for me.

Timid LO Starmie Hydro Pump does 38.01% - 44.86% to your Abomasnow and does 37.17% - 43.87% to Rotom-W in the Hail. Maybe you're not facing good Rain teams or even players, but when your resists are being threatened to be 2HKOed by one of the most common rain sweepers, I'd be more worried. I'm not just whipping out calcs to prove a point though, so if you really haven't been troubled by Rain, then by all means keep your current team.

Tyranitar is no problem from Abomasnow. Most people who use it don't use the Specially Defensive version, so they are easy pickings for him (Specially Defensive version is 2HKOed by Blizzard tho if Stone Edge hits then Abomasnow is done).

Standard Sassy Tyranitar actually takes 32.18% - 38.12% from Blizzard which won't even guarantee a 2HKO even after 3 layers of Spikes. Other versions still invest in SpD, just not as much. The only other version worth noting is the one used on the standard CBTar which uses 180HP EVs. That one takes 39.90% - 47.41%. These calcs are all done assuming Hail is up, so it'll do even less if Tyranitar switches in. It can then trap Abomasnow with Pursuit and laugh while it switches into Rocks everytime you want to change the weather.

I'm not saying Rain teams or Tyranitar are problems really, just that you're grossly overestimating Abomasnow's defensive and offensive abilities.

While Gastrodon is great, the 1 reason I won't swap him with Rotom-W is for 1 pokemon that walls this team: Slowbro. While I haven't seen many, without Rotom's STAB thunderbolt, its a PAIN/near impossible to take him out ~_~

Slowbro can't really do much to Gastrodon and suprisingly not many of them carry Toxic so you win there.

Anyway, good luck with the team.