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View Full Version : You're offended? So what.


Blue Nocturne
July 28th, 2011, 03:01 AM
*Paraphrased by Stephen Fry for, ironically, compliance with the rules here.

How far should we go to avoid offending others? What comes first? Our right to an opinion and to voice it or being 'polite' and 'tolerant'?

I personally believe it's something that's dependent on the subject and situation. When it come to religion, for example, I think some people need to realize and accept that not everyone has the same opinions as them and that, while they may find their beliefs offensive, everyone else might find theirs offensive also.

However, when you're dealing with someone on a personal level, while I'd still advocate your right to say whatever the hell you like to them, there should be SOME level of tact and respect there. Who you're talking to, no matter how unlikely it may seem, has feelings.

I also think racists have the right to voice their opinion, if only because people will become even more aware of how worthless their opinion is.

Oryx
July 28th, 2011, 03:07 AM
I'm a very tactful person. I would rather swallow how I feel about someone and put up with it, rant to someone else later who doesn't have contact with the person so there's no drama from me ranting, and deal with it myself. I would like to be more honest with people but I'm more afraid that I don't know where the honestly line ends and 'just mean' begins since I'm so used to trying hard to be tactful.

Black Ice
July 28th, 2011, 04:53 AM
This should be common sense.

Guys generally aren't as tact or subtle though.

Deerling
July 28th, 2011, 06:57 AM
As long as they aren't aggressive or unreasonable (in an "I'm right and you're wrong" type of manner that is boarding onto insults) then I do my very best to make my own views clear whilst admitting that others have the right to different opinions, leaving it open that I can admit when I am proven wrong in something. There's nothing that annoys me more than someone who thinks they know everything on certain topics. I've always struggled to tolerate close minded people but I do my best not to think of them in that way. I think everyone deserves to voice their thoughts but whilst respect is earned, courtesy isn't. It is simply having manners, y'know? I always do my best to stay polite and as long as I do, I think I deserve to be treated in the same way.

groteske
July 28th, 2011, 07:56 AM
There's not too much out there to get offended by. I think it's worse when people expect the world to cater to their sensitivities.

I tend to be spiteful which can color the manner in which I express myself, but if I'm proven wrong, I'm wrong. Not a big deal.

Bela
July 28th, 2011, 08:21 AM
I would rather swallow how I feel about someone and put up with it, rant to someone else later who doesn't have contact with the person so there's no drama from me ranting, and deal with it myself.
The problem with this thinking is that you are denying yourself the opportunity to deal with the situation in the moment that you have those feelings. The act of ranting in the presence of another person makes your feelings known to others. You may think you have avoided creating drama by not telling the person who is the object of those feelings, but it is this very act which creates drama. It is impossible to forever contain and trap information. Your ranting to others will eventually be found out by the person you are trying to conceal this from, and this is itself a catalyst for drama. You shouldn't aspire to forever hide your feelings from these people; the problem is not your methods of secrecy and concealment. Rather, it is a problem of lacking the courage to talk to the person you have these feelings with. You should not be afraid of dealing with your problems.

I would like to be more honest with people but I'm more afraid that I don't know where the honestly line ends and 'just mean' begins since I'm so used to trying hard to be tactful.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Again, the fear of being courageous presents itself. There is no line between honesty and "meanness" as you put it; if you truly feel that way about a person, then that's the truth and you should share that with them. If, however, you identify a part of your feelings as being "mean," then this would mean you recognize something about your feelings that you are ambivalent toward. You should seek to modify those feelings. If your desire is to not be or feel mean to others, then you should seek to reject those feelings which you label as being "mean."

And how can you resolve those feelings, and seek to rectify your relationship with those who are the object of those feelings?

By talking to them directly, instead of to every other person who isn't them.

Esper
July 28th, 2011, 09:02 AM
There's a certain level of tact needed when expressing your views. It's enough to say "I hate your _____" or whatever your view is without having to use expletives, get angry, and provoke people even if you feel violently passionate about it. Yelling at someone and calmly expressing your disdain both get the message across, but one is more likely to inflame than the other. Since you can be true to your views without resorting to the most inflammatory language I see no justification for using such language.

So then if you're being polite, stating your views calmly, respecting the other person, and avoiding provoking language you're doing everything right in my book. If that offends someone then that's unfortunate, but it can't be helped. I would just hope that people know when they're being respectful and would be open to suggestion in case someone told them they were being rude, whether they were or not. Dialogue really does help keep tensions down.

FreakyLocz14
July 28th, 2011, 12:27 PM
We shouldn't have to tip-toe around our words to avoid offending others. The fact that we didn't mean anything offensive is enough. All this PC crap is ruining our fun, dirty jokes.

Bela
July 28th, 2011, 01:10 PM
I do feel that acquiescing to the perceived slights and "offense taken" by others is a slippery slope that leaves everybody without a voice when taken to its logical extreme. And I agree that this sort of tip-toeing can be at times a bit ridiculous.

I don't think it affects jokes, however. If you're with friends and joking around with them, I don't see how the societal pressure to conform to a certain standard of use for language affects you.

2Cool4Mewtwo
July 28th, 2011, 01:12 PM
This is mainly common sense IMO. Of course anyone shouldn't try to offend others.

G.U.Y.
July 28th, 2011, 04:41 PM
I think there's a huge difference between keeping your mouth shut so you won't offend someone and lack of free speech and expression. :|

Black Ice
July 28th, 2011, 08:28 PM
This is mainly common sense IMO. Of course anyone shouldn't try to offend others.
It's unfortunate that everyone is easily offended though. Nothing you can do about it.

We shouldn't have to tip-toe around our words to avoid offending others. The fact that we didn't mean anything offensive is enough. All this PC crap is ruining our fun, dirty jokes.
Sometimes I can't tell if you're joking. In this case I hope you are.

It's nice to get your full point across without compromising anything. But there is a line between being rude and obnoxious and being polite and respectful. If you're in a debate with someone, go all out as long as you can actually debate. But if you're in a casual situation, I don't understand why it would be necessary to argue against everyone's opinions. Being pedantic gets no one anywhere.

FreakyLocz14
July 28th, 2011, 08:38 PM
Sometimes I can't tell if you're joking. In this case I hope you are.

It's nice to get your full point across without compromising anything. But there is a line between being rude and obnoxious and being polite and respectful. If you're in a debate with someone, go all out as long as you can actually debate. But if you're in a casual situation, I don't understand why it would be necessary to argue against everyone's opinions. Being pedantic gets no one anywhere.

The topic is whether we should censor our opinions to avoid offending people. I've made it perfectly clear where I stand on that issue.

backpackomg
July 28th, 2011, 09:08 PM
There's not too much out there to get offended by. I think it's worse when people expect the world to cater to their sensitivities.


yeah exactly. like there are definitely some things to be offended by, but people who are overly sensitive don't deserve to be catered to. it's going to be a harsh world for those kids who think too highly of themselves and have gotten too much rope to work with.

ArcanineGaming
July 28th, 2011, 09:34 PM
I feel we should respect each other as fellow human beings we all have the mental capacity (or so i hope) I do believe no one has the right to force their Religious or Political agendas on people. I also believe we should not bend over backwards to not offend. We will not all see eye to eye but we must all understand and respect others and their view points and act like people. I feel racist's don't even posses the mental capacity to even equate to this equation. If you hate a group of people for the skin they were born into you are a fool and should be treated as one. Dislike someone for who they are not for what they are. I see I have dragged this on far enough.

インフェルノの津波
July 28th, 2011, 11:20 PM
Well we should take certain precautions before talking to someone or doing something, like for example my best friend egged me about not hitting on girls. To me this was offensive due to the fact 1. I don't care and 2. What gives you the right to annoy me about something that would effect my life, not yours?

However. We shouldn't dance among our words. If we do, pretty soon communication would be disastrous.

PkMnTrainer Yellow
July 28th, 2011, 11:44 PM
As much as we can manage, ideally. Sadly, there are those that like to make excuses when called out on being able to do better. >_>; They're too hip to make the effort. They'll go on and on about how it's everyone elses problem and do whatever they please but at the end of the day, they're just lazy.

I recall making a stamp on DeviantArt regarding this topic.
It was very, very harsh. Though, that was to make the point that if they're going to be lazy we have no obligation to ignore it.

Oryx
July 28th, 2011, 11:59 PM
The problem with this thinking is that you are denying yourself the opportunity to deal with the situation in the moment that you have those feelings. The act of ranting in the presence of another person makes your feelings known to others. You may think you have avoided creating drama by not telling the person who is the object of those feelings, but it is this very act which creates drama. It is impossible to forever contain and trap information. Your ranting to others will eventually be found out by the person you are trying to conceal this from, and this is itself a catalyst for drama. You shouldn't aspire to forever hide your feelings from these people; the problem is not your methods of secrecy and concealment. Rather, it is a problem of lacking the courage to talk to the person you have these feelings with. You should not be afraid of dealing with your problems.

I don't think you understand how relationships with people work differently for different people. For me, I do have friends that will never meet. I have friends that live across the country from each other, friends that I went to middle school with and friends of my family and friends I went to high school with and friends I go to college with and online friends. Other than a few notable exceptions, these groups of friends never interact. So me going to a middle school friend and saying "I'm in a bad mood because of ___" will never cause anything other than that person to say "Oh, I'm sorry you're in a bad mood".


Again, the fear of being courageous presents itself. There is no line between honesty and "meanness" as you put it; if you truly feel that way about a person, then that's the truth and you should share that with them. If, however, you identify a part of your feelings as being "mean," then this would mean you recognize something about your feelings that you are ambivalent toward. You should seek to modify those feelings. If your desire is to not be or feel mean to others, then you should seek to reject those feelings which you label as being "mean."

And how can you resolve those feelings, and seek to rectify your relationship with those who are the object of those feelings?

By talking to them directly, instead of to every other person who isn't them.

This is where we differ in opinion; there is "I don't agree with your opinion" and "because I'm angry at you I'm going to insult you". The first is honesty, the second is meanness. There's a fine line between the two, and in my experience the only way to be able to tell is to back away from the situation and think about it for a while, instead of just blurting out whatever's on your mind, no matter how rude it may be. Just saying everything that comes to your mind isn't the way to go either; often when people are in the heat of the moment, they may feel like they're being "honest" by telling a friend that they're ugly and that's why no one has ever wanted to date them, for example, and then realize later that it was said in anger because they didn't have a filter between their minds and their mouths.

I'm not saying my path is ideal, of course. My problem is that I grew up overly tactful, so I never had the social mess ups of going too far with friends and such as a kid. Because of that I've never been on very solid ground with tactfulness; I'm usually only "brutally honest" when I'm angry, and then it very easily can dissolve into meanness even towards friends. But it takes a very certain kind of person to say every little thing that comes to their mind, mean or not, because it's "honest"; and that's not the kind of person I want to be, nor the kind of person I want to be friends with. I would rather my friends have some kind of filter in their minds: "will this hurt the other person?" "is this necessary to say?" "can I find a way to not say it but still get the point across without hurting them?"

Guy
July 29th, 2011, 03:44 AM
There should always be some level of tact when involved in debating against someone or simply just expressing your views and opinions to someone. If there wasn't, and sometimes there isn't, the situation can become disastrous between those involved. However, bottling up your opinions when you have that chance to express them is just a waste of a thought. Many times we reach to make a difference or make ourselves heard towards others, but if we don't put ourselves out there and say what's on your mind sometimes, then nothing we want is going to change. I do think that sometimes rambling onto someone else is just depriving yourself of what you really want to say to the actual person, but the issue itself, still lingers on. Which essentially isn't solving anything.

In some cases though, it is better to just shut your mouth. If you're religious for example, don't throw your views onto someone else who doesn't believe what you believe. If they show any sort of interest and don't mind you explaining things to them, fine. However, if you're trying to make it seem like your beliefs are better... Don't do that. :\

Short version, there should always be some level of respect when talking with someone. Sadly, that doesn't always happen. There's also a time and place to share your opinions openly, and then there are times when you should just not say anything at all.

Freedom Fighter N
July 29th, 2011, 04:48 AM
I'm not a bad person, but sometimes you can't hold it and feel like headbutting someone. Everything regarding being nice and everything is a huge of course, but people's actions and words say quite clearly how you should respond to them.
If it wasn't for the rules here, I might have been much more rude, but not without reason

Musician of Literature
July 29th, 2011, 10:27 PM
Our opinion is much more important than being polite. If I want to say something I'll bolt it right our there. I believe our opinions shouldn't be censored

FreakyLocz14
July 30th, 2011, 02:48 AM
Meh. I know I'm gonna take some heat for this, but I feel that a racist or homophobic joke is OK if the jokers aren't actually prejudice.

Guy
July 30th, 2011, 04:43 AM
Meh. I know I'm gonna take some heat for this, but I feel that a racist or homophobic joke is OK if the jokers aren't actually prejudice.
Around friends or a group of people who know you're joking, I can see that okay. If you're out in public where people who don't even know you can easily hear what you say, then I personally feel like that's an inappropriate time to make a racist or homophobic joke. For myself, however, I don't even waste my time with such jokes, because even if I meant it or not, I'd feel like I'm being disrespectful and acting immature when I could be doing something more worthwhile of my time.

G.U.Y.
August 5th, 2011, 03:31 PM
How far should we go to avoid offending others? What comes first? Our right to an opinion and to voice it or being 'polite' and 'tolerant'?[/FONT]

Shutting up and being nice is not a restriction of one's civil liberties. It's just being polite.

How far should we go? Just don't insult people. It's not hard, just whine to your friends like everyone else does.

keoni
August 6th, 2011, 08:08 AM
If you're a stranger, and it's just a "hello," or "how's your day" kind of conversation with small talk, I'll be polite. However, if they something that begins to agitate me, I'll tell them to "shut the hell up." (Yes, those are my usual choice of words.) If they being to bore me, I'll tell them to stop talking to me unless they think of something interesting to talk about ( I say that to everyone.).... I believe that everyone is offended too easily now-a-days...

Melody
August 7th, 2011, 07:13 PM
I don't waste my time trying to sound politically correct. If someone gets offended by that, then why should I waste my time dealing with them or tolerating them?

I don't see any point in sugarcoating the truth excessively. I speak the barest truth whenever possible, and paint a very thin glaze of sugar over it when needed...but I'm not going to pretend the truth is all beautiful buttercups, and not roses with their own thorns. Doing so is just detrimental in the long run, because if people know you give candy, they come running back for more...and yes that was a metaphor.

If I'm going to give 'candy', it's because there's nothing unpleasant to hide in the center of such. I'm not trying to feed you "caramel dipped veggies" or any hideous creation like that.

I value honesty above all else, if you can't be honest about how you feel...how can you be trusted or expected to be honest about anything else? There is a phrase from a song I like to think suits me..."You may not like where I'm going, but you sure know where I stand..."

At least when dealing with me, if you quest to know how I feel then I'll either say how I feel, say "I don't know" or say nothing at all...which means I may not feel it right to tell you and end up changing the subject. If I don't say how I feel, well then maybe it's not appropriate for you to ask, or appropriate for me to tell.