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-ty-
August 18th, 2011, 08:13 PM
Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?

Transgender people are often ridiculed and/or harassed by some heterosexuals and even by some homosexuals without the ability to take any legal actions to protect their rights; sadly, we live in a fairly judgmental world. Only 13 states provide legislation to protect transgender people from discrimination at work, housing placement, custodianship, public bathroom access, and a whole lot more. Some opponents of anti-gender discrimination claim that such legislation would call for all unisex bathrooms, and/or their religious rights are being encroached upon. First of all, after the legalities are settled, a transgender person is permitted to only use a facility that is designated for whichever gender they associate themselves with. Secondly, transgender people should be able to do as they please with their image and lifestyle as long as it is not directly harmful to someone; I doubt that anyone's religious freedoms will be taken away just because they cannot discriminate against them!

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

The American Psychological Associations generally believes that the above therapies and surgeries are vital for a transgender person to overcome severe psychological issues that arise from what has been deemed Gender Identity Disorder. Many insurances will not pay for these remedies, superciliously viewing the operations as frivolous and unnecessary for health. I believe that insurance should pay for the operations since these surgeries and therapies could be vital for a transgender person's mental health - which is kinda important!


PLEASE

-NO FLAMING
-BE RESPECTFUL
-IF ANYONE IS RUDE; INFORM LIVE_WIRE, NOT THE OTHER PERSON!

This is NOT about the morality of transgender people, but whether or not there should be anti-discrimination rights/insurance coverage.


THANK YOU! ENJOY THE HEALTHY DISCUSSION! :)

Klippy
August 18th, 2011, 08:45 PM
There shouldn't be any discrimination no matter how you look at it; I think there needs to simply be an anti-hate law that encompasses all types of people. White, black, straight, LGBT, Christian, Muslim and everything in between. That's a whole lot to wish for, but really, everyone should just leave everyone else alone. It bothers me when groups demand crosses or American flags be taken off someone's private property because it might "offend someone" just as much as it bothers me when anyone is bullied for any reason, sexuality or otherwise.

Blue Nocturne
August 19th, 2011, 02:39 AM
There should certainly be something in place to combat Anti-Transgender behaviour, just as there is for pretty much everyone else. I agree with Klippy that there should just be an all-encompassing "anti-hate" kind of thing. That doesn't exclude anyone, which is what we really need, as opposed to a reactionary "Stop bullying these specific people" kind of measure.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?
In special cases where it's quite clear cases of Gender Identity Disorder is leading to other serious mental, and possibly physical, health issues... than yes. But generally, I wouldn't think it's financially viable to offer up sex-changes for free.

Phantom
August 19th, 2011, 04:31 PM
OK I am going to look like a insert-censored-word here but.

People put too much into this transgender thing sometimes. I admit there are legal and numerous other issues that need to be resolved. But sometimes people are too touchy.

Ooops I called someone trans instead of transwoman or whatever they say I should have called them. Thing is it's too complicated half the freaking time and being politically right has to have some, I don't know, loophole or something. If people like that are so persnickity.... did I spell that right?... about crap like that then maybe they are overreacting... Just a little...


People need to accept that there are different parts of the world and different people who talk differently. And they may not necessarily being rude or mean, it may be just what they call it. No particular reason.

And begin the Phantom hate.

BareBones
August 19th, 2011, 04:36 PM
Oh definitely. Just as much as there should be anti-racism things. But as the other two stated, just making an anti-hate thing that covers every kind of discrimination.

And in response to the second question I think it depends, really. It's an expensive procedure so giving them away for free wouldn't be very practical. As much as it hurts knowing that my friend can't get the FtM transition that he needs because he can't afford it, he understands why there's a price on it.
But I suppose the counter argument to that is that it's really quite devastating for people who can't get the operation they need because of a lack in funding.

So the last question is difficult to answer. But I think I'll go with what Blue Nocturne said and say it should be free if the disorder is becoming a threat to life, but generally not free.

Mr. X
August 19th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?


No. No matter how many laws they make, people will still scorn them.

No. Know why? Its a pointless operation. And a waste of taxpayer money. You were born a specific gender. Deal with it.

As for this operation being needed, can you provide me a example for where this prodecure saved a person's life? Or corrected a physical defect that prevented a person from functioning normally? IMO, these are the only times that the government should cover medical operations.

-ty-
August 19th, 2011, 05:06 PM
OK I am going to look like a insert-censored-word here but.

People put too much into this transgender thing sometimes. I admit there are legal and numerous other issues that need to be resolved. But sometimes people are too touchy.

Ooops I called someone trans instead of transwoman or whatever they say I should have called them. Thing is it's too complicated half the freaking time and being politically right has to have some, I don't know, loophole or something. If people like that are so persnickity.... did I spell that right?... about crap like that then maybe they are overreacting... Just a little...


People need to accept that there are different parts of the world and different people who talk differently. And they may not necessarily being rude or mean, it may be just what they call it. No particular reason.

And begin the Phantom hate.

But it's much more than that. There is a huge difference between being called, let's say, something politically incorrect and actually denying a person housing, benefits, jobs, custodianship, marriage and many other important things based off their gender identity. I don't think a transgender person would be overreacting at all if they were denied right likes these based off their gender identity.

To others, yes, it would definitely be great if there were one-size-fits-all legislation that protects everyone from the various forms of discrimination, however I think that certain groups of people, including transgender people, should be specifically addressed, if not the legislation may be deemed to vague to protect certain racial, sexual, and gender minorities. But yes, I think that legislation should be made in order to specifically address all individual's rights.

No. No matter how many laws they make, people will still scorn them.

No. Know why? Its a pointless operation. And a waste of taxpayer money. You were born a specific gender. Deal with it.

As for this operation being needed, can you provide me a example for where this prodecure saved a person's life? Or corrected a physical defect that prevented a person from functioning normally? IMO, these are the only times that the government should cover medical operations.

Some people are born with chemical imbalances, that affects their mental health; should these people have to "deal with it"?

It doesn't have to be life-threatening in order to be deemed medically viable. If I am bi-polar, it may not save my life to take the medication, but it will promote my mental health. Also, transgender people are taxpayers, shouldn't there psychological health be taken as seriously as other individual's?

Yoshikko
August 19th, 2011, 05:30 PM
Definitely, like someone mentioned, an anti-hate law. Any form of discrimination or racism is unacceptable, so I agree with that.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

I don't think so. I know that there are cases in which psychological issues/disorders are involved, and that it would really help someone improve their mental state if they'd be given this option from insurance, but I think that there are also a lot of people who would abuse it, because they don't have to pay for it. When you pay for it yourself, I can imagine that you'll think a lot about it, considering if you really want it, and base a decision upon pros and cons, and arguments (just like you do when you want to buy something that's really expensive. Because it costs so much money, you'll have to be absolutely sure of your decision), because not only is it a (probably) permanent change, it also costs a lot of money. If it is free though, I think people feel more tempted to resort to this option, which in most cases, isn't the right solution, and that would cause problems.

I believe that there are many people who suffer from a disorder where they feel like they have the wrong body, but I also think that there are a lot of people, thinking they have this disorder, just because it isn't deemed as controversial as in former times, in some places, it has become acceptable and widely embraced by a lot of people, and I think that this actually might motivate a some people, and make themselves believe that they are e.g. homosexual or transgender, just because the freedom to express it exists, and the get feeling that then they will be accepted.

The Netherlands for example, in general, we have a lot of respect, and widely embrace homosexuality. In general, we think it is amazing and that people should just go ahead and live their lives the way they wish. But the thing is, I think that this mentality motivated a lot of people who weren't actually homosexual, to convert anyway, just because the possibility and freedom for it exists, and that is what I don't like, and why I think that such operations and so on, shouldn't be covered by health insurance.

I have a lot of respect for homosexuality, etc, but not exactly for cases where people abuse that possibility and freedom, and 'come out of the closet' just for the sake of it.

BareBones
August 19th, 2011, 05:32 PM
No. No matter how many laws they make, people will still scorn them.

No. Know why? Its a pointless operation. And a waste of taxpayer money. You were born a specific gender. Deal with it.

As for this operation being needed, can you provide me a example for where this prodecure saved a person's life? Or corrected a physical defect that prevented a person from functioning normally? IMO, these are the only times that the government should cover medical operations.

Alright. My friend, FtM. Can't afford the surgery. He's slowly becoming suicidal because it upsets him that much that his gender and sex aren't the same. If he got the surgery, he'll be happy again. Even if it isn't directly saving his life it's saving his mental health.

Also, the phrase: Sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears.
You're born a specific sex. Gender is entirely mental and has nothing to do with having a penis or a vagina.

And as -ty- said, they're taxpayers too. Their mental and physical health should be taken into consideration which is why these procedures exist.

EDIT: Also, racism still exists. But there are laws against that. Murder still exists. There are laws about that too. Regardless of if some individuals choose to follow them or not, there should still be laws against things like that.

Mr. X
August 19th, 2011, 05:59 PM
Some people are born with chemical imbalances, that affects their mental health; should these people have to "deal with it"?

It doesn't have to be life-threatening in order to be deemed medically viable. If I am bi-polar, it may not save my life to take the medication, but it will promote my mental health. Also, transgender people are taxpayers, shouldn't there psychological health be taken as seriously as other individual's?

They were born with a specific gender. Thats their gender.

Should they have any mental disorders then give them the needed medications for whatever mental condition they may have, but don't suguest letting the person undergo numerous expensive surgerys (Which correct PHYSICAL disorders) to treat a mental disorder.

-ty-
August 19th, 2011, 08:17 PM
They were born with a specific gender. Thats their gender.

Should they have any mental disorders then give them the needed medications for whatever mental condition they may have, but don't suguest letting the person undergo numerous expensive surgerys (Which correct PHYSICAL disorders) to treat a mental disorder.

Well, we have to consider the person's best needs, not our personal beliefs. In order for the person to become psychologically healthy, if they are not, is to either:

A) Have a sex change operation, body modification surgery, and/or hormone therapies.

B) Change their gender identity to the gender in which they were born.

So considering these two options, only one is medically possible - Choice A.

Like sexuality, gender identity cannot be modified. There is absolutely no way to change a person's gender or sexual identity other than give them a lobotomy; that would take away the person's entire gender and sexual identity causing severe psychological trauma. It is in the person's best interest to have their physical self modified, because that treatment pathway has been proven to reduce anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts.

Bluerang1
August 20th, 2011, 08:03 PM
Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?
If they combat homophobic behavior then I don't see why not.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?
Urm no. To me it's about choice. It could be a phase and they may want to change back after. It's their personal thing anyway, the government shouldn't be involved.

twocows
August 20th, 2011, 08:17 PM
No. They should be treated the same as everyone else, which means no special legislation making them different.

-ty-
August 20th, 2011, 10:18 PM
No. They should be treated the same as everyone else, which means no special legislation making them different.

Without the legislation, some of their rights are not incorporated via the 14th amendment. Unfortunately, they are not protected like other individuals. I know it would be nice to simply suggest to people that they should not hold prejudice against a transgender person during a job, housing, or adoption interview, but without a specific law, acts of discrimination cannot be punished nor will transgender people be able to be treated as equals.

Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?
If they combat homophobic behavior then I don't see why not.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?
Urm no. To me it's about choice. It could be a phase and they may want to change back after. It's their personal thing anyway, the government shouldn't be involved.


Don't worry, when these surgeries are performed, the patient must undergo a psychological examination to ensure that they indeed have a gender identity disorder and not just a supercilious whim. And the government is involved with all realms of health care.

Try placing yourself into the situation. Imagine if you were born a female. Obviously you would have difficulty coming to terms with both sexuality and gender identity. If you legitimately were supposed to be born a male, you might be depressed, anxious, and have suicidal thoughts. I think we often are not able to understand the thoughts of someone who undergoes difficulties with their gender; we've never had problems with our gender. I just try putting myself in their shoes, and visualizing how I would want to be treated by others, and what types of difficulties that they have to live with.

Moogles
August 20th, 2011, 11:35 PM
Wow a good amount of this thread is incredibly erroneous.

They were born with a specific gender. Thats their gender.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were the person who defined genders. Not to mention that, oh there's an entire gender spectrum. You know genderqueer, etc. Although I would suppose you're right. They were born either male or female, and that's how they currently feel. They don't feel comfortable in their body though. You can make the argument that they were born the male gender but being in the female body, yes.

I think that this mentality motivated a lot of people who weren't actually homosexual, to convert anyway, just because the possibility and freedom for it exists, and that is what I don't like, and why I think that such operations and so on, shouldn't be covered by health insurance.

That makes absolutely no sense. There will always be discrimination wherever you go if you're a member of the LGBTQ. Even in an liberal country (I live in Canada, for example.) it's still a huge hassle just to be what is supposedly different. I can't possibly see anybody choosing to act that way. a) It's an entire waste of time. b) You're just going to get discriminated against anyways so just continue acting yourself and being straight.

I have a lot of respect for homosexuality, etc, but not exactly for cases where people abuse that possibility and freedom, and 'come out of the closet' just for the sake of it.

There is absolutely nothing to abuse about being a homosexual. If you're seriously putting through the effort to lie about your sexual preference (especially when it puts you in a worse position) then I have no idea what to say. I can imagine people being incredibly confused and switching back and forth. I don't judge that way, because I don't have any idea what they are going through. There's no more freedom in being gay than if there were being straight.

Don't worry, when these surgeries are performed, the patient must undergo a psychological examination to ensure that they indeed have a gender identity disorder and not just a supercilious whim. And the government is involved with all realms of health care.

Thank you. This is something that a lot of people don't actually know. They need to have a psychological assessment before undergoing the surgery.

Transgendered people deserve the exact same treatment and rights that the rest of the population does. If they need another law to be put in place so that they can be equal then so be it. The general education about transgendered people needs to be increased too. The good lot of people (minus -ty- I'm guessing) haven't been completely informed on the subject. Which isn't necessarily bad, because there's always room to learn.

Gothitelle.
August 21st, 2011, 04:38 AM
Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

I'll answer this one, no. Because it's a cosmetic procedure and insurance doesn't cover cosmetic procedures unless it's life threatening.

Melody
August 21st, 2011, 05:37 AM
Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?
Yes. Transgendered people have rights just as anyone else does. No one need be discriminated against because they've changed their sex to match their gender.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?
I can understand programs like Medicare not funding these things. Programs that are meant to ensure that your basic health is ensured don't need to pay for such things unless a professional recommends it because they feel it will help you mentally or emotionally. Now I won't say that they shouldn't offer a little bit of assistance even if it's not recommended by a doctor, but I wouldn't compel government funded insurance to do so.

So Yes, if a professional thinks it's for the better. Because like any treatment there IS some person it WILL help, cosmetic or not. But I only say let the professionals decide if it is what a person needs. Because it's not always necessary, but it can help someone who is obviously committed to their gender more so than their sex and is obviously troubled by their sex to the point that it affects their physical or mental health over-much.

Mr. X
August 21st, 2011, 06:17 AM
Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were the person who defined genders. Not to mention that, oh there's an entire gender spectrum. You know genderqueer, etc. Although I would suppose you're right. They were born either male or female, and that's how they currently feel. They don't feel comfortable in their body though. You can make the argument that they were born the male gender but being in the female body, yes.


You have a penis, you are a male.

You have a vagina, you are a female.

With these two facts stated, can you explain to me just what other types of organs there are that call for diffrent gender definitions? Thats right. NONE. Therefor, all other 'gender definitions' are technically a mental condition which is UNEFFECTED by surgerys which effect PHYSICAL conditions. That said, I have no problem with transgenders but I don't want my tax dollars to fund cosmetic surgerys.

Aslo, to Gothitelle, +1. Its nice to see another person who see's these expensive surgerys for what they REALLY are which is just another cosmetic surgery ment to make people feel good about themselves.

Anyway, to everyone, mentally, im genderless. By this, I mean I don't feel sexual attraction to either gender. Does this mean that im going to undergo a sugery to remove my penis? No.

Gothitelle.
August 21st, 2011, 06:30 AM
Aslo, to Gothitelle, +1. Its nice to see another person who see's these expensive surgerys for what they REALLY are which is just another cosmetic surgery ment to make people feel good about themselves.


Yeah, I mean if you look at it, there's really no medical related reason why people would get a sex change. Therefore, making it purely cosmetic.

Like if you were to have your penis removed because of cancer, that'd be a different story.

Mr. X
August 21st, 2011, 06:48 AM
The only medical reason would be because of a mental condition which could be treated with medication and/or hormones... Which, come to think of it, are needed by people who have a sex change anyway.

twocows
August 21st, 2011, 06:57 AM
Without the legislation, some of their rights are not incorporated via the 14th amendment. Unfortunately, they are not protected like other individuals. I know it would be nice to simply suggest to people that they should not hold prejudice against a transgender person during a job, housing, or adoption interview, but without a specific law, acts of discrimination cannot be punished nor will transgender people be able to be treated as equals.
That's nonsense. Acts of discrimination are already covered under traditional laws. Assault is assault, regardless of who it's against. And I'm pretty sure the Equal Protection clause of the 14th says "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." You don't need to add on to that. What protection that everyone else has isn't implied by that?

-ty-
August 21st, 2011, 08:13 AM
That's nonsense. Acts of discrimination are already covered under traditional laws. Assault is assault, regardless of who it's against. And I'm pretty sure the Equal Protection clause of the 14th says "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." You don't need to add on to that. What protection that everyone else has isn't implied by that?

I never mentioned assault. As far as job, housing, custody, marriage and other important things many states do not provide anti-discrimination for transgender people. They do however, though the 14th amendment and incorporation include race, ethnicity, disabled, socioeconomic background, and sexuality. You can literally deny someone whom is transgender a job in these states because the laws do not encompass them. They are not protected by "traditional laws". But I agree that these anti-discrimination laws should be included as amendments to other pieces of legislation that stipulate equality among the above groups I listed. If transgenders were included then they would be equal; well or at least closer to equality.

Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

I'll answer this one, no. Because it's a cosmetic procedure and insurance doesn't cover cosmetic procedures unless it's life threatening.

It is false that insurance does not cover cosmetic procedures that also have proven benefits whether they are psychological or physical.

It's not simply a cosmetic procedure. Like losing a limb, yes a prosthetic is cosmetic procedure, but it may be necessary for psychological or mobility purposes.

The American Psychological Association contends that yes some people do not need the surgery, however, when the symptoms become, yes, life threatening, and have a severe effect on mental health, then the procedures and therapies may be the only resort.


Again, health insurance covers dental, psychological disorders, lice treatment, and so many other things that are helpful to treat/cure non-life threatening conditions. That is also an invalid argument.

You have a penis, you are a male.

You have a vagina, you are a female.

With these two facts stated, can you explain to me just what other types of organs there are that call for diffrent gender definitions? Thats right. NONE. Therefor, all other 'gender definitions' are technically a mental condition which is UNEFFECTED by surgerys which effect PHYSICAL conditions. That said, I have no problem with transgenders but I don't want my tax dollars to fund cosmetic surgerys.

Aslo, to Gothitelle, +1. Its nice to see another person who see's these expensive surgerys for what they REALLY are which is just another cosmetic surgery ment to make people feel good about themselves.

Anyway, to everyone, mentally, im genderless. By this, I mean I don't feel sexual attraction to either gender. Does this mean that im going to undergo a sugery to remove my penis? No.

The average cost for a male-to-female surgery is about $17,000. Adding in a cost of about $1000 for therapy, $1500 for hormones, and $500 for doctors visits and lab tests, the cost to transition averages about $20,000 over a two year transition period. (After completion of surgery, ongoing costs drop dramatically to cover only a small maintenence level of hormones.)

If these procedures are not covered by insurance, the transsexual must pay for them personally. Most surgeons require payment in advance. People have to save money for years to complete their transition. Those in lower paying jobs often can never afford the surgery. The impact on an individual can be overpowering.

"How much would it cost your company/state insurance to cover the basic medical needs of a transsexual? Transsexualism is very rare. According to the DSM-IV, it affects an estimated 1 in 30,000 people, The latest research estimates that the total annual cost per insured is $.05 to cover surgery, or $.17 to cover surgery, hormones, and therapy. With medical insurance costing upwards of $4,000 per year, the to cover THBs would be about .004%."

Umm, I think we can spare a quarter of a dollar (that is if ALL transgender people had the operations and therapies), for all transgender people to have an operation and therapies. And as I have stated, the APA has deemed this operation to medically necessary when counseling is not enough to combat depression, anxiety, social disorders, and other serious mental health issues that inhibit normative functioning to live a healthy life.

Stormbringer
August 21st, 2011, 09:11 AM
I'm going to remind you all to behave yourselves this one time. This thread's bad enough as is.

yasu
August 21st, 2011, 11:21 AM
Ideally, this sort of thing should be covered by a health insurance scheme. So many people do not truly understand how mentally damaging it can be for transgenders. And I think some people in this thread watch too much TV and have probably never even met a transgender.

But healthcare companies doesn't even cover people who are dying from serious illness, I don't see how they would ever have the heart to help transgender people. This is a nasty world, it probably won't happen.

-ty-
August 21st, 2011, 12:53 PM
Ideally, this sort of thing should be covered by a health insurance scheme. So many people do not truly understand how mentally damaging it can be for transgenders. And I think some people in this thread watch too much TV and have probably never even met a transgender.

But healthcare companies doesn't even cover people who are dying from serious illness, I don't see how they would ever have the heart to help transgender people. This is a nasty world, it probably won't happen.

Yes exactly, the average person is not acquainted or close to a transgender person. I think a lot of people think that a transgender person is some type of dancer/escort/adult film star. 99%+ of transgender people are just "regular" people just trying to live their lives. It doesn't help that in media/entertainment transgender people are often looked at as if they are "perverted" the same goes with gay people. I think once we are able to look past the false stereotypes by knowing other transgender people as friends or family, we will start to understand what struggles as a human they go through. I personally, have a cousin that is undergoing treatments to become female. Her work provided the coverage for the therapies and surgeries. Every time I see her, she seems to become increasingly happier and positive. As a family, we are all supportive, and very thankful that her work covered her transformation. Just a couple years ago, she had attempted suicide. We didn't even know why; it was the scariest thing. I just would like to see the same for other transgender people that have similar circumstances. With that being said, she doesn't use public bathrooms in fear that she is going to be beat-up. It's also sad to see that in her state she cannot get married, jointly adopt, nor will she have the same opportunities for jobs and housing. She is soooo lucky that she knows the guy whom runs the car plant and has worked there for several years or she would not have that job. So what I am trying to say is, before making assumptions, or taking for granted transgender people's struggles meet one and find out that they are painfully average people, lol.

BareBones
August 24th, 2011, 06:50 PM
Wow a good amount of this thread is incredibly erroneous.



Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were the person who defined genders. Not to mention that, oh there's an entire gender spectrum. You know genderqueer, etc. Although I would suppose you're right. They were born either male or female, and that's how they currently feel. They don't feel comfortable in their body though. You can make the argument that they were born the male gender but being in the female body, yes.



That makes absolutely no sense. There will always be discrimination wherever you go if you're a member of the LGBTQ. Even in an liberal country (I live in Canada, for example.) it's still a huge hassle just to be what is supposedly different. I can't possibly see anybody choosing to act that way. a) It's an entire waste of time. b) You're just going to get discriminated against anyways so just continue acting yourself and being straight.



There is absolutely nothing to abuse about being a homosexual. If you're seriously putting through the effort to lie about your sexual preference (especially when it puts you in a worse position) then I have no idea what to say. I can imagine people being incredibly confused and switching back and forth. I don't judge that way, because I don't have any idea what they are going through. There's no more freedom in being gay than if there were being straight.



Thank you. This is something that a lot of people don't actually know. They need to have a psychological assessment before undergoing the surgery.

Transgendered people deserve the exact same treatment and rights that the rest of the population does. If they need another law to be put in place so that they can be equal then so be it. The general education about transgendered people needs to be increased too. The good lot of people (minus -ty- I'm guessing) haven't been completely informed on the subject. Which isn't necessarily bad, because there's always room to learn.

I completely agree with this person. A lot of people say no without even reading the facts about the disorder, and the surgery. They base their opinions on movies and people they have seen dancing onstage in a club.
Honestly, if you want to argue for -or- against something do the research first or your argument will just fall through.

Also, I agree with the whole bit about there being nothing to abuse about being homosexual. They have no more rights than a hetrosexual person

And finally, the part about the gender spectrum. Don't think in such black and white terms when it comes to the mind. Physically, you're one or the other (except for the rare case of hermaphrodites). Mentally, there's an entire spectrum that most people choose to ignore entirely or just have never been told about.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_logdj4El811qcpj7wo1_400.png
Iunno who made that image, but I feel it's highly appropriate.

wcdaily
August 24th, 2011, 07:03 PM
I don't really care about my gender, all I know is I am what I am, and so I agree with what the above picture, their is a wide spectrum of genders, we are all different.

Esper
August 25th, 2011, 06:36 PM
When you think about the things that insurance companies don't cover it sounds extreme to ask for surgeries and therapies to be included. When you think about all the things that insurance companies should cover then it sounds extreme for them not to cover it. Think about it. There aren't too many trans people out there. The costs of covering cancer medication or HIV or any of a hundred or thousand things, plenty of which are not "life threatening" even, and they get coverage. It doesn't seem expensive to me. Furthermore it makes sense to offer surgery to someone as a preventative measure. It's not enough to wait for someone to have psychological problems. Frankly, that's cruel. It's like saying that you have to suffer before you can get help. And then you take into account that not everyone who is trans is going to want surgery the costs go down further. And, and, and it's better to have a doctor working with someone than having someone self-medicate with hormones.

Charliezard
August 26th, 2011, 07:59 AM
Ideally I'd like to go with Twocows. Although if legislation is needed (This isn't an issue I'm active in... I've never even known a transgendered person) it should be worded, as others have said, as a general anti-hate thingy without singling out gays, blacks, transgendered people, white people, etc.

But

Can someone explain the difference between
1. Someone changing their gender because they feel depressed and miserable as their current gender and they believe a change would make them happy and comfortable with who they are
and 2. Someone changing the size of their nose or something else because they feel ugly, depressed and miserable and believe changing their body would make them happy and comfortable with who they are.

I've nothing against transgendered people but if you don't think the second situation should be funded by the Government then why should the first? Or if you do think the second situation should be funded by the Government... There is a limited amount of money going around and operations like that are exensive so where do we draw the line?

Esper
August 26th, 2011, 08:42 AM
Can someone explain the difference between
1. Someone changing their gender because they feel depressed and miserable as their current gender and they believe a change would make them happy and comfortable with who they are
and 2. Someone changing the size of their nose or something else because they feel ugly, depressed and miserable and believe changing their body would make them happy and comfortable with who they are.
One is a root problem and the other is a symptom of some other problem. If you hate your nose you have self-esteem issues, or something along those lines and it's your self-esteem that needs help and something like counseling could help (though surgery to change it could help, too, even if it's not the only solution). When you feel you have the wrong body that's the root problem itself. You won't find something causing it which can be helped because it is the root problem and has to be dealt with because to varying degrees it's debilitating psychologically.

People who go through surgery spend a lot of time talking with doctors and other medical types to make sure that what they're doing is the right thing and to find out if something less invasive and involved would work better. People who get nose jobs, well, I don't know too much about that but I would assume there isn't as much screening to see if something else will help them feel better. You see, when someone decides to go for surgery it's gonna be because nothing else is going to help. I think that's the biggest difference.

Charliezard
August 26th, 2011, 08:19 PM
One is a root problem and the other is a symptom of some other problem. If you hate your nose you have self-esteem issues, or something along those lines and it's your self-esteem that needs help and something like counseling could help (though surgery to change it could help, too, even if it's not the only solution). When you feel you have the wrong body that's the root problem itself. You won't find something causing it which can be helped because it is the root problem and has to be dealt with because to varying degrees it's debilitating psychologically.

People who go through surgery spend a lot of time talking with doctors and other medical types to make sure that what they're doing is the right thing and to find out if something less invasive and involved would work better. People who get nose jobs, well, I don't know too much about that but I would assume there isn't as much screening to see if something else will help them feel better. You see, when someone decides to go for surgery it's gonna be because nothing else is going to help. I think that's the biggest difference.

I didn't think of that but that makes quite a bit of sense.

DowntownDumpling
August 27th, 2011, 06:35 AM
Should more states create legislation to combat anti-transgender behaviors?

Transgender people are often ridiculed and/or harassed by some heterosexuals and even by some homosexuals without the ability to take any legal actions to protect their rights; sadly, we live in a fairly judgmental world. Only 13 states provide legislation to protect transgender people from discrimination at work, housing placement, custodianship, public bathroom access, and a whole lot more. Some opponents of anti-gender discrimination claim that such legislation would call for all unisex bathrooms, and/or their religious rights are being encroached upon. First of all, after the legalities are settled, a transgender person is permitted to only use a facility that is designated for whichever gender they associate themselves with. Secondly, transgender people should be able to do as they please with their image and lifestyle as long as it is not directly harmful to someone; I doubt that anyone's religious freedoms will be taken away just because they cannot discriminate against them!


Yes, but as many others have said here, it's time to stop singling out certain groups for discrimination.


Should government health insurance cover sex-change operations, body modification surgery, and hormone therapies?

The American Psychological Associations generally believes that the above therapies and surgeries are vital for a transgender person to overcome severe psychological issues that arise from what has been deemed Gender Identity Disorder. Many insurances will not pay for these remedies, superciliously viewing the operations as frivolous and unnecessary for health. I believe that insurance should pay for the operations since these surgeries and therapies could be vital for a transgender person's mental health - which is kinda important!

Yes.