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Forever
January 20th, 2012, 07:36 PM
So guys, how do you feel about the games being... DS games?

Also, feel free to discuss how the 3DS can possibly enhance features, or things you'd like to see enhanced by the 3DS.

Eucliffe
January 20th, 2012, 07:49 PM
Well, it's highly unlikely the third game will be on Wii, considering how all the main Pokemon games were on handhelds... XD;

That said, I can honestly see it either for the DS alone or a version for both DS and 3DS (kinda like with the first PMD games). Then again, they could always make it just for the 3DS so they can get more buyers. But! if they make it for the DS too they will still be able to attract those who only own a DS/DSi.

Anyways, I guess on the 3DS they'd probably make it as 3D as Rumble Blast. Dunno how to describe it, but yeah. Idk how they'd do the video chat feature, and maybe for some cutscenes they could really utilize the 3D by making a Pokemon or something swoop in from stage left or right!

bobandbill
January 20th, 2012, 09:13 PM
Not many DSi only games (as in, very very few especially if you discount DSi ware =p) and would make zero sense to exclude people who only have a DS but not the DSi people. As said, a non-handheld console is not happening; Game Freak develops only for the handhelds and have said on multiple occasions they don't plan to do anything on the Wii/etc either.

That leaves the DS and 3DS. The former is clearly being phased out with barely any games now made for it, much less ones that would be major sellers. So hence the 3DS is imo what it will be (and we know they got their hands on the dev kits for the 3DS nice and early too). Don't see why it wouldn't after all.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 20th, 2012, 09:25 PM
Given that Black and White had the Xtransciever to begin with, I doubt they'd miss the opportunity to put that back into a Pokémon 3DS title.

And given Pokédex 3D, you realise it's actually rather trivial to actually use 3D models? Given that they've rendered almost every Pokémon in Unova, it's likely they'll use them if the next game is on the 3DS and uses 3D models in battles.

rocky505
January 20th, 2012, 09:31 PM
They will not use 3D models. I read somewhere that they were sticking with the sprites. It was in an interview or something.

Wings Don't Cry
January 20th, 2012, 10:23 PM
I wouldn't mind it if it was on DS or 3DS, if it's on DS then I won't have to upgrade to a 3DS, but if it's on 3DS then I'll finally have an excuse to get a 3DS. I'm more on the 3DS side here since Crystal was on Colour but Gold and Silver were on the normal Gameboy.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 20th, 2012, 11:09 PM
They will not use 3D models. I read somewhere that they were sticking with the sprites. It was in an interview or something.
Given the nature of the Internet, your job here will be to provide a source.

rocky505
January 21st, 2012, 12:01 AM
Given the nature of the Internet, your job here will be to provide a source.

It was something serebii said about the developers from an interview.

2. The developers have said outright that they're keeping things sprite-based since they feel they can be more artistic.

WishCookie
January 21st, 2012, 12:11 AM
Well i think it will be for 3DS or maybe that the remakes is for DS/DSI and then that the new generation will be for 3DS. They have almost always changed the platform after the third game.

jdthebud
January 21st, 2012, 01:29 AM
Well, my question is, how will the online wi-fi aspect work between the DS and 3DS games if the third game is made only for 3DS?

And I hope they do both DS and 3DS.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 21st, 2012, 02:00 AM
It was something serebii said about the developers from an interview.
The question becomes when this was stated.

(Serebii is not a source, by the way.)

PlatinumDude
January 21st, 2012, 06:44 AM
Personally, I think the third game will be for the regular DS systems because if it was on the 3DS, then anyone who doesn't have one won't be able to play it.

The 100 Mega Shock
January 21st, 2012, 06:56 AM
Game Freak would have to be staffed by a group of lunatics to want to continue using sprite graphics in their next game - and I don't think that's the case at all.

Sprites are costly and time-consuming to draw. Every time you want to add more animations to a sprite-based game, you have to multiply your workload by the amount of new animations you want - and that will very quickly add up to an unmanageable task.

We have roughly 650 Pokémon. That means they already need to draw 1,300 new sprites to fit the 3DS's screen for front and back angles. If they want to improve the quality of animations, they need to draw animations for all of those Pokémon facing in both directions.

A lot of sprites in Black and White are modified or based on older sprites from Gev IV games - already Game Freak is having to make compromises just to achieve BW's simple level of animation.

No RPG game on the planet has fully-animated battle sequences, with sprites, and has the amount of unique playable characters Pokemon has.


Conversely, a 3D model graphic can be displayed from any angle, and can perform any animation without needing further work on the artists part. It makes their job hundreds of times easier and allows them to move the camera around in battles - performing zooms, sweeps and pans and changing the angle of the battle screen in a way that's impossible with 2D sprites.

Sprites are holding back the quality of the games in several ways that also effect gameplay

To top it all off, every Pokémon already has a 3D model made for the Wii games and Pokédex 3D. Most of their work has already been done for them.


Personally, I think the third game will be for the regular DS systems because if it was on the 3DS, then anyone who doesn't have one won't be able to play it.

When people really like a certain game, they tend to pay for things if it means they get to play their favourite game.


Making the same game for both the DS and 3DS is out of the option.

Firstly, it defeats the object of inciting people to buy the new 3DS by offering them something that makes them content to stick with their old DS.

Secondly, it means that Game Freak have two choices about making a game - either create two very different games, one that resembles how BW currently looks on the DS and one that takes full advantage of the 3DS's capabilities, or they can make both games that look and play almost identically to one another - look at Mystery Dungeon Red/Blue and (a very relevant example) Harvest Moon: The Tale of Two Towns for DS and 3DS.

If they go with the first option, suddenly they have to spend a lot more money and more staff to create two games at once that only share basic similarities. This isn't very good because they probably don't have that many people to manage to create two games at once and still remain at the standard of quality we've seen from Pokémon games in the past. If they take the second option - congratulations. You've got a DS game just like the one you bought last year, and a 3DS game that feels cheap and nowhere near the same level as games that were designed soley for the 3DS.

Do you really want them to make a handicapped game that lives up to none of the potential of the 3DS, just so you can still play it on your 7 years old DS?

deoxys121
January 21st, 2012, 07:58 AM
I've said this before. But, now that we have a new thread, I'll put the idea. What I think they should do is make it for the DS, but make it "3DS enhanced." When you play it on the 3DS, it would have more bonus features, and perhaps even access to more Pokemon. This would be similar to how Pokemon Yellow had enhanced graphics for GameBoy Color, but it was fully compatible with the regular GameBoy for those who didn't yet have a GameBoy Color. If they make Gray "3DS enhanced," it will appeal to both those who already got a 3DS, and those who only have a DS. Personally, I'll have a 3DS in probably a couple weeks, but I know how it is to not be able to afford the new system.

wombateiro
January 21st, 2012, 08:17 AM
I've said this before. But, now that we have a new thread, I'll put the idea. What I think they should do is make it for the DS, but make it "3DS enhanced." When you play it on the 3DS, it would have more bonus features, and perhaps even access to more Pokemon. This would be similar to how Pokemon Yellow had enhanced graphics for GameBoy Color, but it was fully compatible with the regular GameBoy for those who didn't yet have a GameBoy Color. If they make Gray "3DS enhanced," it will appeal to both those who already got a 3DS, and those who only have a DS. Personally, I'll have a 3DS in probably a couple weeks, but I know how it is to not be able to afford the new system.

I was thinking the same before but now I know it doesn't make sense.
Difference between DS and 3DS is huge comparing to one between GB and GBC.
DS and 3DS have similar designs but they are completely "two different worlds" in case of programming. Grey and R/S remakes must be decided to be made only for one console - DS or 3DS because they are very different systems.
Adding "3DS enhanced" elements into DS game would require reprogramming the whole game into 3DS system. And that doesn't seem likely they would put that much effort just to add some "3DS enhanced" details.

Patchisou Yutohru
January 21st, 2012, 01:09 PM
I think they may have two versions of the game, but fear that it's going to be 3DS only. I really hope that they're going to end up putting it on the DS so that I can actually play it. I just don't see the appeal in the 3DS enough to get it, and even though I know they're going to cut making games for the DS eventually, I don't really see why. I don't really have that strong of a fear about it not being put on the DS. It seems weird that they would consider not having it on the DS since they've never switched to a new platform at the middle of a generation. They usually save that for every other generation.

The 100 Mega Shock
January 21st, 2012, 01:48 PM
It seems weird that they would consider not having it on the DS since they've never switched to a new platform at the middle of a generation. They usually save that for every other generation.

Why should this mean there's a pattern set in stone? They've been releasing games every couple of years for a long time, and that just happened to coincide with how often Nintendo's been releasing new systems - until now. The DS was around for just enough time that BW could be developed and released a few months before the 3DS came to market. Now that the 3DS is out, Game Freak have no obligation to continue developing for DS - they didn't waste any time taking the work they had done on "Pocket Monsters 2" and recreating it for the Game Boy Colour release of Gold and Silver.

Crystal was designed to be exclusively playable on Game Boy Colour. Isn't that enough evidence that they're more than willing to cut support for an older family of consoles, if there's a benefit to be gained from the new technology?


It's time to move on, because Nintendo sure has.


I've said this before. But, now that we have a new thread, I'll put the idea. What I think they should do is make it for the DS, but make it "3DS enhanced."

This is impossible. It's been nearly two years since the 3DS was first announced, and Nintendo have never once said that DS games can be '3DS enhanced'.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
January 21st, 2012, 02:01 PM
I think it'll be for the 3ds too. They will hopefully use 3d sprites, they can even use the 3d pokedex unova models or edit's of them to cut roughly 1/5 of the work. Plus it'll bring something new to the third version.

Hoenn
January 21st, 2012, 05:44 PM
Nintendo DS, it just seems very likely considering Black & White are on DS.

Patchisou Yutohru
January 21st, 2012, 06:32 PM
Why should this mean there's a pattern set in stone? They've been releasing games every couple of years for a long time, and that just happened to coincide with how often Nintendo's been releasing new systems - until now.
Please don't overanalyze the things I say (as I didn't mean what you thought I meant). I carefully chose my words in that post. I said it seems weird; I didn't say anything was set in stone.

The 100 Mega Shock
January 21st, 2012, 07:03 PM
I'm simply saying there's no reason to be think it at all strange that they don't want to make games for outdated systems because they've always behaved this way.

Dopefish7590
January 25th, 2012, 10:22 AM
I had always thought that they were considering making the third game for the 3DS for it's Streetpass and Spotpass functionality. That way the C-Gear would integrate with the handheld much better than it currently does.

But if they are porting it, it would take some time to enhance it for the console, not necessarily for the 3D, which isn't hard to add, but for the alternate resolution.

But again, this is merely speculation.

Khrysta
January 25th, 2012, 01:34 PM
I saw something about Crystal and Gold Silver...While the Gameboy and Gameboy Color existed similarly how the DS and DSi exist, Crystal could not be played on normal gameboys while Gold and Silver could be played on the Gameboy Pocket and in Black and White even though it was compatible with Colored sprites.

So YES, Crystal WAS made for a DIFFERENT System in the Middle of the Second Generation. The fact that it could not be played on an older system (Gameboy and Gameboy Pocket). It was, and to this day is the only Pokemon game made for a different system than its predecessors. While this hasn't been done after the fact isn't mearly a coincidence. Since the Gameboy Color, the Advance Generation of the Gameboy (Advance and SP) were merely the same system with different features, none of the working mechanics were really changed. Same is said for the DS and DSi series. Same systems with different features.

They can very well repeat Crystal's compatibility issue with any new game IF Gamefreak or the company that will take charge of the new game, OR if Nintendo makes them do so.

Pac-Man1096
January 25th, 2012, 07:43 PM
I really do hope that the new game is for the 3DS only. It could allow for many enhancements, including 3D Pokemon Battles. I also had an interesting idea involving the StreetPass functionality.

Using the C-Gear, you can ask a player a question and when they respond, you could see their answer, correct? What if this was done during StreetPass. You accept the survey and you walk around with your 3DS. When it meets another 3DS with the same game, the anwser is automaticly transfered if during the game you already answered the question (preanswered).

GibbyGibson
January 25th, 2012, 08:02 PM
While I don't think it will be on the 3DS, that is just what I think, and not my wish. I do wish it would be on the 3DS while using as many of the enhancements that the system contains.

This would also give me a reason to actually get my lazy butt of my chair and actually pick up a 3DS. XD

GibbyGibson

Dr. Montague
January 25th, 2012, 08:25 PM
I'd enjoy it being for the 3DS, as I feel the online capabilities would be better. However, the main issue I'm wondering about is whether they'll use sprites or 3D models. I mean, since they have almost every Unova Pokemon in Pokedex 3D and nearly anything else in the recent Wii games (Pokepark, Pokepark 2, and PBR) it would make sense to use those on a 3D system.

However, if they really did want to stick to sprites, would the 3DS be able to project a different sprite to each eye, to give the feel of the Black/White, but still effectively make use of the 3DS's technology?

wombateiro
January 26th, 2012, 03:05 AM
I think they would stick to sprites because of fact that most of Hoenn Pokemon got completely new or similar to 3 gen's sprites in B/W. Other gen's Pokemon got sprites copied from gen 4 (most of them).

Those animated sprites from B/W probably took a lot of effort during development, so maybe that's why they decided to make those new Hoenn's sprites already in B/W, to skip effort during R/S remakes development.

The 100 Mega Shock
January 26th, 2012, 05:37 AM
Woah, hold on. The 3DS screen is higher resolution than the DS - the sprites from B/W would look far too small for a 3DS game. The DS had a larger screen resolution than the GBA, so they drew bigger sprites for every Pokémon in D/P. The 3DS has an even larger increase in screen resolution.

You can't just press a button and make sprites larger and more detailed - they have to be individually redrawn by the artists. This is why I'm saying they can't keep using sprites anymore.

pokewalker
January 26th, 2012, 06:48 AM
I guess they'd make it multiplatform. Both for DS, iOS and Android.

wombateiro
January 26th, 2012, 06:59 AM
Woah, hold on. The 3DS screen is higher resolution than the DS - the sprites from B/W would look far too small for a 3DS game. The DS had a larger screen resolution than the GBA, so they drew bigger sprites for every Pokémon in D/P. The 3DS has an even larger increase in screen resolution.

You can't just press a button and make sprites larger and more detailed - they have to be individually redrawn by the artists. This is why I'm saying they can't keep using sprites anymore.

So maybe it means Grey and R/S remakes are going to be for DS. Otherwise, why would they have focused so much on making completely new or redrawn from gen 3 Hoenn's sprites? No other region's Pokemon sprites got redone in such quantity. Also almost all Hoenn's redone sprites are impossible to see during the single player game, simply because Pokemon with redone sprites don't appear at any point of game. I mean that they usually remake sprites for Pokemon important to game's storyline (Kanto's sprites in FR/LG, Johto's and Kanto's in HG/SS). Almost all remade Hoenn's sprites have no role in B/W, so they must be saved for R/S remakes. Following pattern from previous remakes, they should use remade sprites only in their game's remake, but like I posted before, they probably decided to remade those sprites already in B/W for not too much effort of making another large group of animated sprites.
Of course some Hoenn's gen 4 sprites are copied but IMO only the best looking ones.

Forever
January 26th, 2012, 07:14 AM
I guess they'd make it multiplatform. Both for DS, iOS and Android.

Uhhh, why would they make it for Apple & Android? For one, it'd take forever to download the app and I'm sure it'd have to cost waaaaay more than the normal 99 cent apps. PLUS, it'd be smaller than the real thing (who'd wanna pay $30 for a game you can already get on your DS w/ all the extra features?) and I'm not sure the graphics would necessary render as great as they would on the 3DS or DS :x I'm sure there's a lot more reasons but they don't come to mind rn. But ya, really doubt that.

pokewalker
January 26th, 2012, 10:07 AM
I guess they'd make it multiplatform. Both for DS, iOS and Android.

Uhhh, why would they make it for Apple & Android? For one, it'd take forever to download the app and I'm sure it'd have to cost waaaaay more than the normal 99 cent apps. PLUS, it'd be smaller than the real thing (who'd wanna pay $30 for a game you can already get on your DS w/ all the extra features?) and I'm not sure the graphics would necessary render as great as they would on the 3DS or DS :x I'm sure there's a lot more reasons but they don't come to mind rn. But ya, really doubt that.

It wouldn't take forever to download, considering b/w are 256 mb and gray would be 300 itd take like 15 minutes. Way quicker than gojng to the shop. And graphics would only look better, looking at the iphone 4s and ipad 2's dual core processor. Have you seen infinity blade 2 on there? Yeah. Better than the 3DS. Oh, and most great games on the app store cost 7 dollars, its the standard price there. And ib2 was a million project and they still got profit, so why not pokemon?

The 100 Mega Shock
January 26th, 2012, 10:14 AM
lol, the iPhone and high-end Android phones are actually a lot more powerful than the 3DS - especially because they're not wasting power trying to display 3D images (Except that gimmicky HTC thing)

From a technical standpoint, the Pokémon series is perfectly designed for smartphones because it's a game that doesn't need more than touchscreen input and the occasional gyro controls to do things. Unfortunately Nintendo both doesn't see phones as a platform for meaningful games, and are in no way interested in cannibalising sales of their own hardware by offering major games for competing mobile devices.

Otherwise, why would they have focused so much on making completely new or redrawn from gen 3 Hoenn's sprites? No other region's Pokemon sprites got redone in such quantity

Because all those other Pokemon had new sprites in either Platinum or HG/SS. Can a developer not do something just for the love of their craft? (Re-using the same sprites for four games in four years does not look professional.) Besides, doing something like drawing graphics over two years in advance is a very strange thing to do.

pokewalker
January 26th, 2012, 10:24 AM
lol, the iPhone and high-end Android phones are actually a lot more powerful than the 3DS - especially because they're not wasting power trying to display 3D images (Except that gimmicky HTC thing)

From a technical standpoint, the Pokémon series is perfectly designed for smartphones because it's a game that doesn't need more than touchscreen input and the occasional gyro controls to do things.

Unfortunately Nintendo both doesn't see smartphones as a platform for meaningful games, and are in no way interested in cannibalising sales of their own hardware by offering major games for competing mobile devices.


Yeah, that's the only problem there is so far.
Funny is how a lot of DS developers want to step over to iOS developing: but due to their contract with Nintendo they aren't allowed to.
Personally I think they're only waiting. In the near future, we will
1) see Nintendo developing mobile games
2) nobody knows about nintendo any more
This is because iOS is killing the DS. And PS3 is killing the wii... A recently released pie chart showed that ios was good for 60% of mobile gaming, ds 35% and psp 15% or something among those lines.
In other words, iOS & Android are the future of mobile gaming.

Dr. Montague
January 26th, 2012, 12:50 PM
[SIZE="a"]

Yeah, that's the only problem there is so far.
Funny is how a lot of DS developers want to step over to iOS developing: but due to their contract with Nintendo they aren't allowed to.
Personally I think they're only waiting. In the near future, we will
1) see Nintendo developing mobile games
2) nobody knows about nintendo any more
This is because iOS is killing the DS. And PS3 is killing the wii... A recently released pie chart showed that ios was good for 60% of mobile gaming, ds 35% and psp 15% or something among those lines.
In other words, iOS & Android are the future of mobile gaming.

Pretending that iOS is only used for mobile gaming, as well as pretending that iOS users only use that, and are not in possession of a dedicated handheld gaming device as well as a multimedia one.

Based on the 3DS holiday season sales, Nintendo doesn't seem to be in trouble (Sources Here (http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Nintendo+3DS/news.asp?c=36940) and Here (http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/27/2662129/nintendo-3ds-sales-japan-4-million)) so there's no reason why Game Freak, who has an incredibly large majority of its success on Nintendo's handheld platforms (namely Pokemon) would move its main series games onto iOS and Android.

It's extremely unlikely for the 3rd version to be put on a non-Nintendo platform. However, most of the debate comes as to which Nintendo handheld it'll be.

And as of the beginning of 2010, I wouldn't say 125 million units are being killed by the iOS (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/28/ds-sells-125-million-worldwide-wii-up-to-67-million)

The 100 Mega Shock
January 26th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Well nobody said move, we were talking about expanding scope. A move that benefits every party but Nintendo.

pokewalker
January 26th, 2012, 01:16 PM
[SIZE="a"]

Yeah, that's the only problem there is so far.
Funny is how a lot of DS developers want to step over to iOS developing: but due to their contract with Nintendo they aren't allowed to.
Personally I think they're only waiting. In the near future, we will
1) see Nintendo developing mobile games
2) nobody knows about nintendo any more
This is because iOS is killing the DS. And PS3 is killing the wii... A recently released pie chart showed that ios was good for 60% of mobile gaming, ds 35% and psp 15% or something among those lines.
In other words, iOS & Android are the future of mobile gaming.

Pretending that iOS is only used for mobile gaming, as well as pretending that iOS users only use that, and are not in possession of a dedicated handheld gaming device as well as a multimedia one.

Based on the 3DS holiday season sales, Nintendo doesn't seem to be in trouble (Sources Here (http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Nintendo+3DS/news.asp?c=36940) and Here (http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/27/2662129/nintendo-3ds-sales-japan-4-million)) so there's no reason why Game Freak, who has an incredibly large majority of its success on Nintendo's handheld platforms (namely Pokemon) would move its main series games onto iOS and Android.

It's extremely unlikely for the 3rd version to be put on a non-Nintendo platform. However, most of the debate comes as to which Nintendo handheld it'll be.

And as of the beginning of 2010, I wouldn't say 125 million units are being killed by the iOS (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/28/ds-sells-125-million-worldwide-wii-up-to-67-million)

Nintendo isn't in trouble. Yet.
First off all, the DS is, just like iOS and the PSP, a mobile gaming console. It may be a handheld, sure, but then iOS and the PSP are, too.
And you're talking about 2010. The data I mentioned was late 2011... If you didn't know, Apple sold 37 MILLION iphones in 3 months. 37x 3 is 111 million in 9 months! Not talking about the iPods and iPads! Oh yeah, Samsung also sold 35 million phones in 3 months. Beat that Nintendo! And yeah, I agree that they won't do it in the third game, but I HIGHLY see them doing it in the near future. Especially Pokemon Ranger.(sorry for offtopic)
Speaking of which, Im now playing through emerald on my iPod and it plays better than any pokemon game I've ever played before.

wombateiro
January 26th, 2012, 01:55 PM
Because all those other Pokemon had new sprites in either Platinum or HG/SS. Can a developer not do something just for the love of their craft? (Re-using the same sprites for four games in four years does not look professional.)

I didn't add that there is another curious thing about Hoenn's sprites in B/W. Most of obtainable in B/W Hoenn Pokemon have the same sprites in every game since D/P, so that means their sprites were being re-used for four games in row. Those Pokemon are: Seedot, Slakoth, Wailord, Zangoose, Lunatone, Solrock, Anorith, Shuppet, Relicanth.

The curious thing is that those Pokemon should get completely new sprites in B/W first, because they are the ones which most B/W players will see during the single game, but they didn't get those sprites for some reason. I guess those Pokemon would get their new sprites in R/S remakes for DS. Or for 3DS, if they decide to redraw all sprites.

Anyway, if they will use 3d models instead of sprites, it would be weird to never see sprite version of new Kyurem's form.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 26th, 2012, 02:20 PM
I didn't add that there is another curious thing about Hoenn's sprites in B/W. Most of obtainable in B/W Hoenn Pokemon have the same sprites in every game since D/P, so that means their sprites were being re-used for four games in row. Those Pokemon are: Seedot, Slakoth, Wailord, Zangoose, Lunatone, Solrock, Anorith, Shuppet, Relicanth.
And?

Your hypothesis is an overanalysis at best.

wombateiro
January 26th, 2012, 02:38 PM
And?

Your hypothesis is an overanalysis at best.

I meant that those Hoenn Pokemon which appear in B/W single game didn't get new sprites while those which don't appear, did get new sprites already, because they can't be seen in B/W single game.

So I think in R/S remakes those "old-sprite" Hoenn Pokemon will get their new sprites, to make them look "new" during single game. The rest of Hoenn Pokemon will look "new" too, becasue their sprites have been already remade.

Rivin
January 26th, 2012, 05:03 PM
When people really like a certain game, they tend to pay for things if it means they get to play their favourite game.
Do you really want them to make a handicapped game that lives up to none of the potential of the 3DS, just so you can still play it on your 7 years old DS?
Uh, No, most people don't. Anyone who buys a system for one game only, either has way too much money on their hands, or mommy and daddy are footing the bill.

The fact remains, that anyone buying a 3DS and (for the sake of simplicity, lets just call it grey.) "grey" will be spending AT LEAST 200$ for one video game and most regular people like myself, cannot afford that kind of price for a video game (our favorite or not). It doesn't matter if it's our favorite series, because whilst the pokemon fanbase may vary from children to adults, most adults have other priorities... We have things like rent, food, electricity, and etc. to worry about. I'm not saying it is impossible "grey" will be on the 3DS either.. I mean believe it or not, GameFreak as a whole could cares more about selling more copies of their own creation than helping Nintendo sell a few extra 3DS' consoles... They will lose sales if it is released purely on the 3DS and they are acutely aware of that fact.

And how would making the game similarly to Black and White be "handicapping" it? Changing from sprites to 3D would destroy any relation the game would have to B/W beyond it's namesake and could potentially alienate fans who enjoy Pokemon's sprite art. It's just senseless to make such drastic artistic changes in the middle of a generation.. They could possibly move to 3DS (like crystal did to Color), but even if they did, they wouldn't inact such drastic changes, so it'd be pointless to exclude a part of the fanbase and not make many changes...

So I believe (and hope) it will be released on the DS to include members of the fanbase and keep with the spirit of the original releases, and that the 6th gen will be released on the 3DS with more stylistic changes capitalizing on the 3DS' hardware perks. (Especially since the hardware will be more accessible to the general population by the time the game is slated to release because of price drops...)

The 100 Mega Shock
January 26th, 2012, 06:02 PM
Trying to make two games at once is handicapping yourselves.

If what you're saying is the case, why did Nintendo release Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda on the 3DS and not the DS? Game Freak can't publish Pokémon games themselves. They work alongside Nintendo in order to produce and finance a Pokémon game, so naturally some of Nintendo's desires will be imparted onto each game. After all, Nintendo has the last say on who is allowed to release a game for what. As well as this, Pokémon is a major brand with a slew of different aspects (and managed by more than one company), so Game Freak certainly don't exist in a vacuum when it comes to making decisions about the future of Pokémon.

I think you're over-exaggerating about graphics. Between Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and a host of other popular Nintendo titles and RPG titles in general have made the jump to 3D graphics without "alienating" people. Look at Fire Emblem 3DS and Golden Sun: Dark Dawn - two series of handheld RPGs that were known for good sprite graphics. They made the jump from sprites to 3D graphics to acclaim, not criticism, so why should Pokémon be any different?

(If anything, dramatically overhauling the game's graphics is an excellent idea to help convince people that Grey is more than just an expensive re-tread of a game they already bought last year. Nobody can deny that Pokémon is not a series that makes constant innovations.)

People aren't made of money and I'm sorry I can't fix that. But that same argument could be said back before Ruby and Sapphire came out for the GBA, and before Diamond and Pearl came out for the DS. What's different about it now, and why should Nintendo be expected to continue releasing games for obsolete systems when they didn't before?


Those Pokemon are: Seedot, Slakoth, Wailord, Zangoose, Lunatone, Solrock, Anorith, Shuppet, Relicanth.

The link here is that their D/P sprites were all based on their original reference art (Except Wailord but his art isn't appropriate to be used as a sprite). There's nothing else for the artists to use, so their B/W sprites are based on the same pose but still noticeably re-drawn and re-shaded. They're not identical.

Or they just ran out of time to make a brand new sprite. (Gee I wonder why seven artists couldn't manage drawing and animating over a thousand sprites. Surely there's no trend to be gained from the increasing amount of 3D artists working on the games and the decreasing amount of 2D artists?)

Rivin
January 26th, 2012, 08:39 PM
Trying to make two games at once is handicapping yourselves.

If what you're saying is the case, why did Nintendo release Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda on the 3DS and not the DS? Game Freak can't publish Pokémon games themselves. They work alongside Nintendo in order to produce and finance a Pokémon game, so naturally some of Nintendo's desires will be imparted onto each game. After all, Nintendo has the last say on who is allowed to release a game for what. As well as this, Pokémon is a major brand with a slew of different aspects (and managed by more than one company), so Game Freak certainly don't exist in a vacuum when it comes to making decisions about the future of Pokémon.

I think you're over-exaggerating about graphics. Between Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and a host of other popular Nintendo titles and RPG titles in general have made the jump to 3D graphics without "alienating" people. Look at Fire Emblem 3DS and Golden Sun: Dark Dawn - two series of handheld RPGs that were known for good sprite graphics. They made the jump from sprites to 3D graphics to acclaim, not criticism, so why should Pokémon be any different?

(If anything, dramatically overhauling the game's graphics is an excellent idea to help convince people that Grey is more than just an expensive re-tread of a game they already bought last year. Nobody can deny that Pokémon is not a series that makes constant innovations.)

People aren't made of money and I'm sorry I can't fix that. But that same argument could be said back before Ruby and Sapphire came out for the GBA, and before Diamond and Pearl came out for the DS. What's different about it now, and why should Nintendo be expected to continue releasing games for obsolete systems when they didn't before?




The link here is that their D/P sprites were all based on their original reference art (Except Wailord but his art isn't appropriate to be used as a sprite). There's nothing else for the artists to use, so their B/W sprites are based on the same pose but still noticeably re-drawn and re-shaded. They're not identical.

Or they just ran out of time to make a brand new sprite. (Gee I wonder why seven artists couldn't manage drawing and animating over a thousand sprites. Surely there's no trend to be gained from the increasing amount of 3D artists working on the games and the decreasing amount of 2D artists?)
I was simply speaking for the 5th generation of titles. And why is that? If people buy them why does it matter? Would they rather make money with a multi release or lose money on a 3DS release? And the difference between speaking of GBC or GBA or DS was that none of them cost four times the price of a game even after price drops... Essentially I was saying that they should probably release title on the console that the majority uses not the console that the rich minority uses or their sales will suffer as people will just wait until they CAN afford the console. And the Mario games and etc. aren't comparable to the console jump because of the differences that lie in the games themselves. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not a smart move to exclude the majority of your customers... My main point was directed at the statements:

"When people really like a certain game, they tend to pay for things if it means they get to play their favourite game. Do you really want them to make a handicapped game that lives up to none of the potential of the 3DS, just so you can still play it on your 7 years old DS?"

Because the first statement is a generalization that only the rich and/or spoiled can attest to, and the second is simply ignorant. How can one assume a game would be "handicapped" just because it was build similarly to the games it is based off of? That makes no sense... Also, a system isn't "obsolete" if games are still being made for the system....

Editman
January 26th, 2012, 08:50 PM
Given the nature of the Internet, your job here will be to provide a source.

That made me Lol' for some reason.

Anyways, I hope a third games comes out period. Considering the third games usually has elements of both games. I always felt like i was missing something playing Black over white.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 26th, 2012, 09:03 PM
Because the first statement is a generalization that only the rich and/or spoiled can attest to, and the second is simply ignorant. How can one assume a game would be "handicapped" just because it was build similarly to the games it is based off of? That makes no sense... Also, a system isn't "obsolete" if games are still being made for the system....
The games move consoles. New Super Mario Bros., Mario Kart DS and Brain Training moved Nintendo DS Lites. Nintendo DSi sales also went up for a while when Black/White were released - let's not forget that they were the recommended platform for these games, through advertising and promotions of the Xtransciever.

Developing a DS game and then changing the platform to 3DS, or developing with the DS in mind, is handicapping it. You would be unable to break out of the DS's limitations in planning simply because you'd have to adhere to said limitations. To develop for the 3DS, you'd need to invest in a fair bit extra development, and two codebases. Explain why we need to have two codebases to begin with? Since when has GameFreak released a Pocket Monsters game for two different consoles?

It's not happening.

Newsflash: the DS is obsolete. Nintendo developing only three first-party DS games in 2011 and publishing only one this year, with a handful of announced 3DS games? It's hardly likely that they're going to allow a major title like the Pocket Monsters games to be published on the DS.

Zet
January 26th, 2012, 09:23 PM
Because the first statement is a generalization that only the rich and/or spoiled can attest to, and the second is simply ignorant. How can one assume a game would be "handicapped" just because it was build similarly to the games it is based off of? That makes no sense... Also, a system isn't "obsolete" if games are still being made for the system....
You're only lying to yourself if you believe the DS isn't obsolete.

Keyaki
January 26th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Anyone who buys a system for one game only, either has way too much money on their hands, or mommy and daddy are footing the bill.

You sure? I got a DS just for Gen IV originally paid out of my own pocket and I plan on doing it again with a Nintendo Wii for Skyward Sword.

the DS is obsolete. Nintendo developing only three first-party DS games in 2011 and publishing only one this year, with a handful of announced 3DS games? It's hardly likely that they're going to allow a major title like the Pocket Monsters games to be published on the DS.

Yea, I'd say at this point, it is obsolete only hanging by the remaining games that are still there and are made by 3rd-party.

Rivin
January 26th, 2012, 09:50 PM
The games move consoles. New Super Mario Bros., Mario Kart DS and Brain Training moved Nintendo DS Lites. Nintendo DSi sales also went up for a while when Black/White were released - let's not forget that they were the recommended platform for these games, through advertising and promotions of the Xtransciever.

Developing a DS game and then changing the platform to 3DS, or developing with the DS in mind, is handicapping it. You would be unable to break out of the DS's limitations in planning simply because you'd have to adhere to said limitations. To develop for the 3DS, you'd need to invest in a fair bit extra development, and two codebases. Explain why we need to have two codebases to begin with? Since when has GameFreak released a Pocket Monsters game for two different consoles?

It's not happening.

Newsflash: the DS is obsolete. Nintendo developing only three first-party DS games in 2011 and publishing only one this year, with a handful of announced 3DS games? It's hardly likely that they're going to allow a major title like the Pocket Monsters games to be published on the DS.
Yeah sure, it's handicapping a game by releasing it for the system the majority of people still play. It just shows they don't care about their fans and are all about the money. And I'm not talking about releasing it for both. I'm talking about releasing it for the DS alone, which IS possible because the DS games are compatible with the 3DS as far as I can tell.

But I could care less. I won't buy it at that price, and I know leagues of other people that won't buy it until it's at a reasonable price either. We aren't all as lucky to have everything handed to us on a silver platter, so we'll wait for as long as it takes and buy both used if we must. I'm not going to throw a used car down-payment at nintendo just because they are releasing a game that people want on a system that the majority can't afford. I'll wait and buy it from someone who doesn't want theirs anymore for a reasonable price.

It seems like the 3DS owners could care less how the DS owners feel (even in just basic conversation concerning the subject), and Nintendo is only catering to their new console customers and forgot about the rest of us who can't afford their overpriced hardware. It's one thing to be in the middle of a console switch, but its another to price your console $100 dollars more than the other and just expect everyone to be able to afford it, and if they can't then say "screw em".

The only reason this is a problem is because DS games ARE compatible with the 3DS, so they have no excuse to exclude part of their fanbase like that when everyone could play it, and the fact that we are still in the middle of generation 5. We all know they won't make huge changes on the third title (as they never have) that would make use of the 3DS hardware.. So it makes no sense why they couldn't move to the 3DS and utilize it's hardware for the 6th generation instead... It just comes down to 3DS owners being greedy. They'd rather see new features that exclude others than similar yet upgraded featured like in B/W (which is what the 3rd title is SUPPOSED to include) that could be released to the majority as a farewell to the console. Considering my new DS is but two years old.. I and many other feel cheated by Nintendo's swindle.

Yellow was on the GB, Crystal was on the Color, Emerald on the GBA, and Platinum on the DS. All the same system as the console the original duos were released on. Why would it make sense to change now? To capitalize on money? Screw that I'll rom up and they'll never see another penny from me. And I know tons of people that feel the same...

Just because some have been privileged enough to afford a 3DS doesn't mean they deserve the title more than the people who haven't been able to.. (Especially considering the outrageous price and the fact that they are still making games for the system.) It goes back to my point about title compatibility. They could release it for EVERYONE, therefore they should. I know someone is gonna say "well why should the 3DS people suffer?" the answer to that is, A) you won't be suffering if you know anything about resolution and B) because by the 6th generation, people will have been forced to either switch over, or miss out..

You can make as many points about what is best for the 3DS, but the fact is, most people can't afford the 3DS, and people with the 3DS can still play the game.. You need to stop being so greedy and wanting new features at the cost of other people playing... Gen 6 will be just for you.. So Nintendo should throw us a bone for the death of the console just like they always have, or their sales will surely suffer...

Zet
January 26th, 2012, 10:07 PM
Yeah sure, it's handicapping a game by releasing it for the system the majority of people still play. It just shows they don't care about their fans and are all about the money. And I'm not talking about releasing it for both. I'm talking about releasing it for the DS alone, which IS possible because the DS games are compatible with the 3DS as far as I can tell.

But I could care less. I won't buy it at that price, and I know leagues of other people that won't buy it until it's at a reasonable price either. We aren't all as lucky to have everything handed to us on a silver platter, so we'll wait for as long as it takes and buy both used if we must. I'm not going to throw a used car down-payment at nintendo just because they are releasing a game that people want on a system that the majority can't afford. I'll wait and buy it from someone who doesn't want theirs anymore for a reasonable price.

It seems like the 3DS owners could care less how the DS owners feel (even in just basic conversation concerning the subject), and Nintendo is only catering to their new console customers and forgot about the rest of us who can't afford their overpriced hardware. It's one thing to be in the middle of a console switch, but its another to price your console $100 dollars more than the other and just expect everyone to be able to afford it, and if they can't then say "screw em".

The only reason this is a problem is because DS games ARE compatible with the 3DS, so they have no excuse to exclude part of their fanbase like that when everyone could play it, and the fact that we are still in the middle of generation 5. We all know they won't make huge changes on the third title (as they never have) that would make use of the 3DS hardware.. So it makes no sense why they couldn't move to the 3DS and utilize it's hardware for the 6th generation instead... It just comes down to 3DS owners being greedy. They'd rather see new features that exclude others than similar yet upgraded featured like in B/W (which is what the 3rd title is SUPPOSED to include) that could be released to the majority as a farewell to the console. Considering my new DS is but two years old.. I and many other feel cheated by Nintendo's swindle.

Yellow was on the GB, Crystal was on the Color, Emerald on the GBA, and Platinum on the DS. All the same system as the console the original duos were released on. Why would it make sense to change now? To capitalize on money? Screw that I'll rom up and they'll never see another penny from me. And I know tons of people that feel the same...

Just because some have been privileged enough to afford a 3DS doesn't mean they deserve the title more than the people who haven't been able to.. (Especially considering the outrageous price and the fact that they are still making games for the system.) It goes back to my point about title compatibility. They could release it for EVERYONE, therefore they should. I know someone is gonna say "well why should the 3DS people suffer?" the answer to that is, A) you won't be suffering if you know anything about resolution and B) because by the 6th generation, people will have been forced to either switch over, or miss out..

You can make as many points about what is best for the 3DS, but the fact is, most people can't afford the 3DS, and people with the 3DS can still play the game.. You need to stop being so greedy and wanting new features at the cost of other people playing... Gen 6 will be just for you.. So Nintendo should throw us a bone for the death of the console just like they always have, or their sales will surely suffer...
You have had two years to save up for the 3DS. Quit complaining about how an obsolete handheld isn't obsolete. The damn thing is 7 years old.

Keyaki
January 26th, 2012, 10:10 PM
You have had two years to save up for the 3DS. Quit complaining about how an obsolete handheld isn't obsolete. The damn thing is 7 years old.

Plus you got a lot of deals now of selling old consoles for new ones.

Hell I could buy one right now if I wanted too. Its not really that expensive.


You have had two years to save up for the 3DS. Quit complaining about how an obsolete handheld isn't obsolete. The damn thing is 7 years old.

Plus you got a lot of deals now of selling old consoles for new ones.

Hell I could buy one right now if I wanted too. Its not really that expensive its almost rivaling the price of a regular Wii.

LOL just save up your money, or get a job or something.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 26th, 2012, 10:13 PM
It seems like the 3DS owners could care less how the DS owners feel (even in just basic conversation concerning the subject), and Nintendo is only catering to their new console customers and forgot about the rest of us who can't afford their overpriced hardware. It's one thing to be in the middle of a console switch, but its another to price your console $100 dollars more than the other and just expect everyone to be able to afford it, and if they can't then say "screw em".

Naturally, people will want a game to justify their console purchase, given how much they might have spent on it. We're in the middle of the 5th generation, and so what? I could counter that you're simply "lucky" this generation even catered to the DS, because otherwise you would have to shell out for one. And guess what? You've already had your chance to experience the 5th generation, because god forbid you're in this forum and are a proud owner of Black/White.

Don't be bitter about the fact you can't have one, and start saving up. Don't act as if you don't care, either, because it's quite clear that you do.

Just pony up the 170. Or don't. You don't have to.

Rivin
January 26th, 2012, 10:21 PM
Plus you got a lot of deals now of selling old consoles for new ones.

Hell I could buy one right now if I wanted too. Its not really that expensive.



Plus you got a lot of deals now of selling old consoles for new ones.

Hell I could buy one right now if I wanted too. Its not really that expensive its almost rivaling the price of a regular Wii.

LOL just save up your money, or get a job or something.
Thats easy to say when you live with mommy and daddy and dont have bills or anything to pay for, but for us in the real world paying over $200 dollars for a PORTABLE game system and one game is insanity. The fact remains that all the 3rd games have been on the original release consoles... Once again sounds like 3DS owners worrying only about what new features they will get and forgetting about all the other people being excluded... And while I DO care, I don't care enough to pay that much for it... You are right though, I'll just skip the gen 5 3rd, buy a used console from a friend, and buy the 6th generation used. It has much less to do with the choice of technology and more with Nintendo not respecting their own customers purchases... would I have upgraded to the DSi XL from the lite if I'd have known the 3DS' release date was so soon? Of course not. It is just that they could include all the systems for the final 5th gen game and they may choose not to. That is proof they could care less...

Zet
January 26th, 2012, 10:25 PM
Thats easy to say when you live with mommy and daddy and dont have bills or anything to pay for but for us in the real world over $200 dollars for a PORTABLE game system and one game is insanity. The fact remains that all the 3rd games have been on the original release consoles... Once again sounds like 3DS owners worrying only about what new features they will get and forgetting about all the other people being excluded...
You make it sound as if you're the only adult here who doesn't live with their parents. If you manage your money the right way, you can expect to have quite a bit left over for yourself.

Keyaki
January 26th, 2012, 10:26 PM
Thats easy to say when you live with mommy and daddy and dont have bills or anything to pay for but for us in the real world over $200 dollars for a PORTABLE game system and one game is insanity.

Didn't I just say that I forked over $100 to get my own DS and Diamond MYSELF? What's wrong with you?

Its already been stated that its not that expensive and there are a plethora of ways to afford it. Don't get pissy just because of your apparent inability to buy it. We're not spoiled brats who get anything you want, none of us are.

You make it sound as if you're the only adult here who doesn't live with their parents. If you manage your money the right way, you can expect to have quite a bit left over for yourself.

Exactly, I got almost ALL of my games with my own money.

Rivin
January 26th, 2012, 10:36 PM
Didn't I just say that I forked over $100 to get my own DS and Diamond MYSELF? What's wrong with you?

Its already been stated that its not that expensive and there are a plethora of ways to afford it. Don't get pissy just because of your apparent inability to buy it. We're not spoiled brats who get anything you want, none of us are.



Exactly, I got almost ALL of my games with my own money.

I wasn't speaking toward you personally but in general. If you are lucky enough to have a well paying job and can afford those things I applaud you, but not everyone is, and to be blatent I feel ripped off by nintendo. Its one thing to make a console switch, but to sap as much money up by selling a "new" handheld and then making it outdated in a year and a half is swindling someone. I could afford a hundred dollars for a DS and a diamond, however I can't and won't pay 200+ for a console with gimped features and one game. Essentially you people could care less about the rest of us as long as you get your new features... Forget that you could play the game if it was released for DS... There is no sympathy for those who want to have fun but cannot afford nintendo's overpriced systems IMMEDIATELY. I just think it's wrong that they'd release the gen 5 3rd to a new system when every other generations 3rd had been on the original handheld. Everyone just wants justification for their console and thats all it is.. Screw the people who can't afford it I guess right? Or they could release it on the DS for everyone and move to the 3DS for the 6th gen.....

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 26th, 2012, 10:38 PM
Let's not take this personal matter too far in, else we're going to derail from the actual purpose of discussing why it will/why it won't be on the 3DS.

Any further posts that appear to be a personal attack will be dealt with.

MegamanC
January 26th, 2012, 11:09 PM
You know....to be honest (I know Pokemon Black And White barely came out in 2011) But honestly, what new games have came out for the DS since 3DS also came out around the same time Pokemon Black And White cam out? I mean...honestly, games for the DS I would want to play if they were still in production would probably be only Ace Attorney or Megaman games, but they already finished the series and now not much for the DS is appealing to me anymore except for Pokemon.

I picked up the 3DS solely only for the purpose of Megaman Legends 3, but when I found out they canned it, I was quite upset and sad since I am a very huge fan of Megaman, although weeks later after owning the 3DS and finding out that Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance was coming, I decided to hold on to it till then. Right now there are plenty of Titles out for the 3DS, but only some I would want (I.E I already have Cave Story, Legend of Zelda: OoT, Mario Kart 7. I do want to get Mario Land 3D and maybe Star Fox 64 3D and Pokemon Rumble Blast.) But whats out for the DS right now that would appeal me? Haven't seen any recent or decent games...and since the new system is out, I feel like they are obsoleting the system now and starting to focus on the 3DS now...but thats just my opinion.

The 100 Mega Shock is right, you can't dwell on a 6 year old system. The DS lite had its prime, but now the time is dying out and coming to an end just like what happened to the PS2. You could always save up for the 3DS and trade in your old DS at Gamestop (I think they're still doing the promotion for an system upgrade, but dont take my word for it.)

On subject though, I do hope to see a new game or atleast the third game on the 3DS. Hoping to see a new story or an upgraded story than from Black and White...haven't gotten to Black City yet, so I don't know the controversy on it yet...but would be nice to see 3D graphics in battle on a handheld in 3D vision.

Just my 2 Cents.

- MegamanC

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
January 26th, 2012, 11:11 PM
I find the two versions for both systems to be unlikely but if they did they could call one Grey and the other Gray...
The ds is kind of old now...in someways I feel like this generation would have been made entirely for the 3ds had nintendo been quicker about releasing it...but Gf proably got impatient considering how long gen 4 lasted...
If the third version is for the 3ds (hey another pun on the system being gray is version # 3...) and it still uses sprites, it'll look strange...they should at least make them 2.5 D if not 3d model's...

Wyaxx
January 26th, 2012, 11:53 PM
If I were them, I'd probably release it for the 3DS and add special features that would give someone like me some sort of incentive to buy it.

My best friend and I both agreed that as we played it, we felt that it was a fun version to play, but we wouldn't want to replay it. No matter if there is a third edition or whichever system it's made for, I probably won't buy it.

The only thing I want is some form of Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald remake.

Rivin
January 27th, 2012, 01:05 AM
You know....to be honest (I know Pokemon Black And White barely came out in 2011) But honestly, what new games have came out for the DS since 3DS also came out around the same time Pokemon Black And White cam out? I mean...honestly, games for the DS I would want to play if they were still in production would probably be only Ace Attorney or Megaman games, but they already finished the series and now not much for the DS is appealing to me anymore except for Pokemon.

I picked up the 3DS solely only for the purpose of Megaman Legends 3, but when I found out they canned it, I was quite upset and sad since I am a very huge fan of Megaman, although weeks later after owning the 3DS and finding out that Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance was coming, I decided to hold on to it till then. Right now there are plenty of Titles out for the 3DS, but only some I would want (I.E I already have Cave Story, Legend of Zelda: OoT, Mario Kart 7. I do want to get Mario Land 3D and maybe Star Fox 64 3D and Pokemon Rumble Blast.) But whats out for the DS right now that would appeal me? Haven't seen any recent or decent games...and since the new system is out, I feel like they are obsoleting the system now and starting to focus on the 3DS now...but thats just my opinion.

The 100 Mega Shock is right, you can't dwell on a 6 year old system. The DS lite had its prime, but now the time is dying out and coming to an end just like what happened to the PS2. You could always save up for the 3DS and trade in your old DS at Gamestop (I think they're still doing the promotion for an system upgrade, but dont take my word for it.)

On subject though, I do hope to see a new game or atleast the third game on the 3DS. Hoping to see a new story or an upgraded story than from Black and White...haven't gotten to Black City yet, so I don't know the controversy on it yet...but would be nice to see 3D graphics in battle on a handheld in 3D vision.

Just my 2 Cents.

- MegamanC

There are tons of games they've released since the release of the 3DS. They may not all be HUGE titles, but they are still releasing games and stuff.. I'm not saying I hope they never make the switch because that would be illogical, as it is only natural to upgrade to the next generation..

I just hope nintendo is sensitive to the gamers who wasted money on the now "obsolete" DS (such as myself who only a year and a half ago bought the XL) for the 3rd game of the 5th gen. Basically I just was hoping nintendo would be inclusive to everyone (by releasing it on the DS so all the DS owners can play it rather than just the 3DS owners) before they jumped to the 3DS for the 6th. Because I, like many other fans may not be rich, and may have other priorities like our children and our homes, and can't afford the 3DS so readily, but we are still fans that love this series...

And I'm not dwelling on a 6 y/o system... That is why I am upset about this.. My XL isn't even two years old yet and it's already "obsolete". I mean I guess I just figured the XL would have a longer run or I would have just played my lite and put the money toward a 3DS instead.. But should I really be penalized for buying a companies product?

I'm probably gonna take your advice Megaman and go trade my system in now while it still has some value and save the credit for when the 3DS is affordable. I too hope we see a new 3DS entry to the series, but I was simply hoping that it would be for the 6th generation... As then I'd have more time to save and purchase both the handheld and the game by the time it is released. Most of you here haven't been blessed with children yet perhaps, but as a father and pokefan both, it's hard to keep up with the things you love, work a full-time job, and raise a family too.

I'm sorry if I may've offended anyone with my opinions, but they are just that. Opinions. I just thought that maybe there were other fans out there too that perhaps (while somewhat ot, but still a valid reason as to why I feel why I do about the choice of console) thought that the 3DS' price was a bit ridiculous and just hoped that Nintendo would give the DS a proper burial before forcing the 3DS on us, (especially considering that every single person I know in my age range has an older gen. DS due to the 3DS' price) but it seems as if I am the only one. So for rocking the boat a bit, I apologize.

Really I just wanted everyone to think for a moment about other people, because while in the grand scheme of things, it is irrelevant, but if released on the DS, we could all enjoy the 3rd game, and like with D/P/P the next generation could shift to the next generation console, with newer feature and animations like it deserves.

Hiroshi Sotomura
January 27th, 2012, 03:46 AM
I just hope nintendo is sensitive to the gamers who wasted money on the now "obsolete" DS (such as myself who only a year and a half ago bought the XL) for the 3rd game of the 5th gen. Basically I just was hoping nintendo would be inclusive to everyone (by releasing it on the DS so all the DS owners can play it rather than just the 3DS owners) before they jumped to the 3DS for the 6th. Because I, like many other fans may not be rich, and may have other priorities like our children and our homes, and can't afford the 3DS so readily, but we are still fans that love this series...
And the Nintendo 3DS needs the support. Right now. It's starting to pick up momentum, and so of course they'd want to do something about it.

As I said earlier, is there any particular reason you'd be "waiting" for the next generation? It's not like you've really missed out on much by skipping the revised game other than a chunk of extra story and areas to explore. I take it you have Black and White already, right? So when the next game pops out, what truly major things have you missed out on?

Oh, and if the 3DS gets downloadable retail software before the middle of 2012, then you'd benefit from being able to download a copy of the game straight from the eShop.

P0kelegend
January 27th, 2012, 04:30 AM
I'm not really sure the whole process into making these games, but lets say the third version will be released on 3DS.. with the whole resolution problem, and them making the graphics more advanced on the 3DS, would they have to go through a lot to change all that and make it 3DS worthy?

Surely if they are going to make it for the 3DS they'll have to fix the resolution and would probably upgrade graphics and change other things around too, right? Im not sure how long that would take them to do though. What Im trying to say is, would they have to practically spend lots of time revamping everything for the 3DS and then adding the third version exclusive 'Gray' stuff?

The 100 Mega Shock
January 27th, 2012, 08:18 AM
I'm not really sure the whole process into making these games, but lets say the third version will be released on 3DS.. with the whole resolution problem, and them making the graphics more advanced on the 3DS, would they have to go through a lot to change all that and make it 3DS worthy?

Surely if they are going to make it for the 3DS they'll have to fix the resolution and would probably upgrade graphics and change other things around too, right? Im not sure how long that would take them to do though. What Im trying to say is, would they have to practically spend lots of time revamping everything for the 3DS and then adding the third version exclusive 'Gray' stuff?

It's been nearly two years, man. Lots of companies can make brand new games in that length of time with big budgets and good teams, let alone when a lot of your game has already been designed.

wombateiro
January 27th, 2012, 12:14 PM
@ Rivin
You complain about how hard is to get money for new console, but you bought DSi XL without even realizing it's almost the same thing like DSi, only bigger.
So don't blame Nintendo that they don't care about people who can't afford 3DS because they are not guilty for your bad choice of wasting money on DSi XL.

Rivin
January 27th, 2012, 01:27 PM
@ Rivin
You complain about how hard is to get money for new console, but you bought DS XL without even realizing it's almost the same thing like DSi, only bigger.
You said that you bought it for B/W and their third version without any guarantee that third version will for DS. So don't blame Nintendo they don't care about people who can't afford 3DS because they are not guilty for your bad choice of wasting money on DS XL.

How was my personal choice a "bad" choice considering the 3DS hadn't been announced for a release date at that point and I was upgrading to an internet capable system with a larger screen and camera from a smaller system with almost none of that? And how do YOU know what I realized? Maybe I have bad eyesight and benefited from the larger screen? The point was is I had saved up money for a while to get my DSi XL, and had Nintendo not swindled me by making it obsolete not EVEN two years later, I wouldn't be mad.

If they'd have announced the 3DS release BEFORE I bought my XL I would have just saved my money and bought that? But they didn't, and essentially tricked me into spending my money on "obsolete" hardware. I had mistakenly assumed the hardware would have a similar run to the products before it (more that a year and a half) and am being penalized for it?

And I never said I bought the XL specifically for b/w or the 3rd game at all. I didn't say anything even related to that because that simply isn't true... I already had a DS Lite, why would I need an XL to play b/w and why would I assume nintendo would put it out for the DS? I made no assumptions, however after nintendo's little trick I figured the least they would do would be to throw us a bone. I mean the customers whom bought the XL are essentially being penalized for buying a nintendo product... that's pretty messed up. (this is getting WAY off topic......... None of this matters as I've traded the XL in now regardless. Why sit with "obsolete" hardware that is essentially bleeding money every day when I can cash in and wait another idk year to buy the 3DS.)

Back on topic, thank you P0kelegend, finally someone who is thinking logically about it.. Why would they convert it over to the 3DS (whilst losing sales) and change the resolution and practically everything about the game and still try to tie it to B/W (which it would be pretty different from at that point) when they could simply do minor tweaks and upgrades like they always have and release it for the original system? Then they could work on upgrading the 6th gen to the 3DS' hardware without struggling for a deadline...

Sure the 3DS could use the support, but a game isn't going to give it that. reasonable price drops will give it that... Because regardless of the games released, many people won't buy it until it is affordable.

Rivin
January 27th, 2012, 02:34 PM
That's why I think it was a bad choice: you should think before how long DS era is going to last. It was rather clear it was going to end soon.



Yeah, sorry about that, my bad. I edited that.

But see that's why I am upset, I figured that since they were releasing a new console, even if it was just a larger version of the DSi, that the era would perhaps be extended to accommodate consumers whom had just made the switch rather than to just move on whilst saying "bad move!"..

I mean you have to look at it from my point of view.. I figured if the era was over, they wouldn't be releasing an updated handheld you know?... I would've just saved my money, played my Lite, and bought the 3DS when I was able instead of wasting my money.. I mean I'm not psychic, and with no release date how was I supposed to know? Thats all...

And its cool man, no biggie, I just wanted to clear that up because that single misquote made me seem like a hypocrite by saying I wouldn't buy a system for one game alone, but painting me as If I had bought the XL for B/W lol. Its cool though.

MegamanC
January 27th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Sure the 3DS could use the support, but a game isn't going to give it that. reasonable price drops will give it that... Because regardless of the games released, many people won't buy it until it is affordable.

Just a little clean up if your thinking the 3DS still isn't affordable, they did that price drop back in July of 2011 from $249 to $169 and for those who bought it for $249 are compensated with 20 free games due to the "Ambassador Program" Nintendo offered.

On topic: needless to say if the third game is on the 3DS or DS console. If you take the example of Gold and Silver (Both games were playable on the Gameboy/Gameboy Pocket or Gameboy Color) When Crystal came out, that was exclusively on the Gameboy Color. (I understand that was already discussed about.) If its the companies choice, whats to fuss about? Unless the companies are planning to hear the public's opinion, whats to do if thats their decision on what they want to do with the game? It may not be fair, but I mean....yeah? (Given, I haven't actually finished Crystal. I've started it, but never finished it, so I don't know what were the difference between Gold/Silver and Crystal aside from Console Exclusive.)

- MegamanC

Rivin
January 27th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Just a little clean up if your thinking the 3DS still isn't affordable, they did that price drop back in July of 2011 from $249 to $169 and for those who bought it for $249 are compensated with 20 free games due to the "Ambassador Program" Nintendo offered.

On topic: needless to say if the third game is on the 3DS or DS console. If you take the example of Gold and Silver (Both games were playable on the Gameboy/Gameboy Pocket or Gameboy Color) When Crystal came out, that was exclusively on the Gameboy Color. (I understand that was already discussed about.) If its the companies choice, whats to fuss about? Unless the companies are planning to hear the public's opinion, whats to do if thats their decision on what they want to do with the game? It may not be fair, but I mean....yeah? (Given, I haven't actually finished Crystal. I've started it, but never finished it, so I don't know what were the difference between Gold/Silver and Crystal aside from Console Exclusive.)

- MegamanC
I understand that, but the fact is, after wasting all my money on the XL, I can't very well afford the 3DS at the moment. I have to use the credit from my XL and still save up some money. I'm just gonna wait till the price drops again is what I'm saying...

Also on topic, yeah but there is a reason why gold and silver combined sold 14.5 million copies, and Crystal sold only 3.7 million.. Not because it was "the same game" either... yellow version sold 8.2 million units compared to R/B/G's 20 million (and it was the "same game") So I wonder what the reason could be? Maybe the console release decision?

And I understand it is the company's choice, but if they want their game to sell well, it'd be easier for them to release it to EVERYONE.. I'm not gonna argue my viewpoint on it since everyone seems to disagree, but I can only hope it is released for the DS for everyone, that way GF and Nintendo can do well, and ALL the players can play the game.

Funsparce
January 27th, 2012, 05:19 PM
I'll have to agree with a lot of the above people, it is highly likely to be released on the 3Ds, but most likely not a Wii :P

MrGriszell
January 28th, 2012, 07:23 AM
I understand that, but the fact is, after wasting all my money on the XL, I can't very well afford the 3DS at the moment. I have to use the credit from my XL and still save up some money. I'm just gonna wait till the price drops again is what I'm saying...

Also on topic, yeah but there is a reason why gold and silver combined sold 14.5 million copies, and Crystal sold only 3.7 million.. Not because it was "the same game" either... yellow version sold 8.2 million units compared to R/B/G's 20 million (and it was the "same game") So I wonder what the reason could be? Maybe the console release decision?

And I understand it is the company's choice, but if they want their game to sell well, it'd be easier for them to release it to EVERYONE.. I'm not gonna argue my viewpoint on it since everyone seems to disagree, but I can only hope it is released for the DS for everyone, that way GF and Nintendo can do well, and ALL the players can play the game.



I didnt realize the sales difference between the gen 2 games, good job on bringing that out. I see where your getting at. I can almost kind of agree, but the thing is by the time the 3rd game comes out dont you think the majority of people will have a 3ds?

wombateiro
January 28th, 2012, 09:04 AM
Also on topic, yeah but there is a reason why gold and silver combined sold 14.5 million copies, and Crystal sold only 3.7 million.. Not because it was "the same game" either... yellow version sold 8.2 million units compared to R/B/G's 20 million (and it was the "same game") So I wonder what the reason could be? Maybe the console release decision?

You were probably basing on this: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon
The problem with that page is the fact it shows only Japan and US sales. And what about the rest of the world?
The global sales are shown here: http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=pokemon&publisher=&console=&genre=&minSales=0.01&results=50

Basing on global sales it can be seen that Crystal was sold in almost the same amount like Emerald which was released for the same console like R/S. So console release decision is not always the main matter of low or high sales.

Haunter714
January 28th, 2012, 12:31 PM
I think the 3DS needs the third game more than the DSi does. I feel like the DSi has been taken to it's limit and there isn't anywhere to go but down in terms of innovation, uniqueness in games. Making the third game on 3DS could open us up to a new level of graphical capabilities they we couldn't achieve on DSi, and I think it's time for a major overhaul in these RPGs. That being said, I only just got my DSi (XL) last year, the console was previously way too small for my fat hands, lol. As badly as I would want to play the third game, I'd have to hold off for a design revision. In actuality, I can see a larger 3DS being announced within the next year with built-in Circle Pad Pro features. Here's hoping.

The 100 Mega Shock
January 28th, 2012, 01:18 PM
Please don't use VGChartz for anything resembling accurate sales data. The information from Wikipedia is also lacking because it doesn't take into account the European markets.

Pokémon game sales need to be used in context. Yellow was the first new release since Red and Blue for US markets and made to cash-in on an immensely popular animated series and animated movie franchise. Conversely, Pokémon Crystal was released at what we can probably call the point where the Pokémon mega-fad begins to die down and we get to Generation 3, where sales figures dropped dramatically. See also Pokémon Stadium 2 (2001) supposedly selling just over half of the first Stadium (2000).

It doesn't have a special tie-in like playing as Ash and Pikachu to hold it up, and an important note to make is that by the time Pokémon Crystal was released to American and European markets, the Game Boy Advance had already seen it's worldwide release.

HyperXhydra
February 3rd, 2012, 05:34 PM
I think the only problem about BW is the back sprites they can make the back sprites of the Pokemons less pixelated.
I think the DS is becoming obsolete but not the DSi.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 4th, 2012, 04:42 AM
As far as Nintendo's concerned, they're the same platform. The DSi's support, going forward, will not be as strong as the 3DS's. Be surprised if any DSiWare actually comes out.

DSiWare is pretty much the only thing Nintendo distinguishes software on the DS and the DSi with. There's no such thing as a first-party DSi-only game card.

aperso
February 4th, 2012, 05:03 AM
I think the third games will come out on both the DS and 3DS platform. I think this because DS games are still going strong and not many people I know have the 3DS. so both is very likely in my opinion.

The 100 Mega Shock
February 4th, 2012, 04:01 PM
I don't know about you, but when the 2012 release line-up consists almost entirely of puzzle games, sports games and tie ins to movies / TV shows, then I consider that DS games are no longer going strong.

Khrysta
February 4th, 2012, 06:26 PM
I asked Gamestop to print up coming Releases for the DS, 3DS, and the other three systems I owned. The DS list had like 5 games. Mostly small ones that no one will likely hear about.

Haunter714
February 6th, 2012, 09:07 AM
GameFly lists 13 games as "coming soon" to NDS. Not one of them is first party. I think it's safe to assume by now, NDS is dead or dying. 3DS is now, and has been since launch, the top priority handheld platform for The Big N.

Lewny
February 6th, 2012, 09:42 AM
I hope its on the ads cos that obviously means 3d pokemon hehe and tbh it will most probably be as that will make people buy a 3ds although I wouldn't be surprised if it came out on dsi swell :)

vizarod
February 6th, 2012, 06:03 PM
It's probably going to be 3DS. Definitely not Wii, there never has been a "real" pokemon
game on the Wii. And DSi and DS games are generally the same, except for the camera.
Though I believe Nobunaga's Ambition+Pokemon is for DS, a third game would probably
be on the 3DS...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 6th, 2012, 11:08 PM
Well Pokemon rumble II was on the 3Ds...so the spin off are somewhat evenly split.
I can't imagine how much improvements gf can make if they stick with the ds...there isn't much room left (at least I doubt there is) on the ds cards for big graphic changes to fix the pixally moveable sprites...

Attribule
February 7th, 2012, 09:43 AM
Guaranteed 3DS, with a small chance of a less refined version for the DS; e.g. less features, worse graphics, etc.

rocky505
February 7th, 2012, 01:23 PM
I hope its on the ads cos that obviously means 3d pokemon hehe and tbh it will most probably be as that will make people buy a 3ds although I wouldn't be surprised if it came out on dsi swell :)

If you are talking about 3d models then no they will not use those. Gf have said already they will stay with sprites for art reasons.

The 100 Mega Shock
February 7th, 2012, 01:26 PM
No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.

Beloved
February 7th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Guaranteed 3DS, with a small chance of a less refined version for the DS; e.g. less features, worse graphics, etc.

History begs to differ. Aside from Crystal, every other 3rd game has been on the same system as the first 2. It makes no sense to put the 3rd game onto a new system. Why? Lets look at it logically:

1. The first two versions were on the NDS, and since GF has a habit of making the third game able to interact with the prior two, it stands to reason that they will put it on the same system.

2. Since the 3DS is still new, GF would be hesitant to put the third game onto the system, since it could potentially lower their fanbase. That is why when the Wii first came out, Nintendo still published Gamecube games. It is the same reason why there were still GBA games coming out when the NDS was released.

3. The system servers would be incompatible with 3D sprites. You cannot transfer a 2D object into a 3D environment without specific programs and commands, which can take over a year to complete. The same works in reverse.

4. The output files would be different formats, and thus unable to be transferred to older or new games. This means they would need to make so sort of "Pal Park" program to transfer Pokemon from NDS games to 3DS games.

5. The time it would take to encode everything from the NDS file formats to 3DS file formats would take the better part of a year, because of different commands and dimensions.

With all that in mind, it is much easier to do as they always have and use the codes they already designed on the NDS, and build around that. Also, before anyone mentions the old Coliseum games that used the GB games, you must remember that those were console games, and had build in codes to render the pokemon from set codes and commands.

The 100 Mega Shock
February 7th, 2012, 02:39 PM
History begs to differ. Aside from Crystal, every other 3rd game has been on the same system as the first 2. It makes no sense to put the 3rd game onto a new system. Why? Lets look at it logically

The 3DS isn't 'new', it will have been out for over a year and a half by this August.

Programming isn't an arcane art shrouded in secrecy and confusion. Game Freak have talented and experienced people working for them - including staff who have been with the company since the development of Red and Green. Lesser companies have taken games designed for one system and moved development over to a successor system because their tools (Software Development Kits, etc) will have been designed to accommodate this.

Not to mention that outside of battle sequences (Which have already been designed and implemented in 3D on other projects), Pokémon's world already works with 3D polygonal graphics building the game maps. Or that Game Freak can work alongside other developers who already have experience displaying 3-dimensonal Pokémon graphics on the 3DS along with implementing many more features of the 3DS (Seriously Pokédex 3D feels more like an engine test polished up and released as a promotion than anything else).

A lack of direct compatibility from DS to 3DS is going to have to be accepted, but it does not sound like a particularly hard task to develop an application that resides in the 3DS's memory, can interface with B/W cartridges and copy Pokémon data across to new game save files.

You aren't looking at anything 'logically' because you're ignoring the current state of Nintendo's* gaming market. They have announced one DS game for publishing this year, and that's an esoteric Pokémon spinoff that nobody knows if it will sell particularly well or even get a Western release. You've also conveniently failed to mention that Nintendo historically stop releasing big-name games for systems by about a year after their successors hit the market - this applied to the Gamecube and Game Boy Advance, undermining the point you were trying to make since we're just about coming up the 3DS's one year aniversary.



Finally, I just want to mention that Sony's Playstation Vita system goes on sale worldwide in just two weeks time. Now Nintendo faces direct competition in the handheld gaming market not just from the cross-over between the smartphone market. They want lucrative properties that they can use in order to advertise their 3DS system to people who might be on the fence about purchasing a 3DS or a Vita.


*All references to 'Nintendo' are referring to their Japanese division only.

Beloved
February 7th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Again, the main point of my argument was the fact that GF, not Nintendo, already has the base code set, and will most likely use that. As for Nintendo's gaming market, GF is not Nintendo, thus making your arguments a bit shortsighted. GameFreaks determine when the games come out, and on what system, not Nintendo. All Nintendo does is publish them, they have little to no part in the coding or creation of the games. And please note that I am talking about the Pokemon games.

Given the fact that the code already exists for Gray on the NDS, it is cheaper to reuse that code rather than try to make a new code. There is a reason why it takes so long to write a game, and its not all the storyline, characters, or concept art.

Mechanic
February 7th, 2012, 03:17 PM
Seeing with Resident Evil Revelations how the graphics in the 3DS easily surpass those in the PS2 i really don't want to see now new Pokemon game with it being completely 3D or nicely enough rendered at least. Also seeing how the chips in a 3DS game cartridge can retain with ease 3gb+ of data whereas a DS game normally goes for about 128mb (games like pokemon, other games go for less), i believe they can either do the double compatibility games or just make a completely new game with a huge leap in mechanics which will also allow at the same time for newer challenges inside the game with this improvements.

I mean i personally think that with everything the 3DS allows in the palm of your hands they would go for making something that wont really reflect the power of the device or probably GameFreak should finally let the reins loose to another company in this? I love them and the games have brought a lot to me but still they are raining over places already wet if they continue making the new games DS and don't adapt to the 3DS.

My 2c :D

The 100 Mega Shock
February 7th, 2012, 04:13 PM
GameFreaks determine when the games come out, and on what system, not Nintendo.

Do they? Last I checked Game Freak can't manufacture game cartridges or handle production and distribution on their own. They can't release officially certified DS software independently either. Let alone the logistics of who holds the purse strings when it comes to paying the staff to make games.

Neither do Game Freak hold exclusive ownership of Pokémon.


Besides, why are we assuming Game Freak would want to make a DS game anyway? They've been making DS games for 6 years, at some point people will be saying "We've gone as far as possible against the limits of this tech, we need to continue the strength of our brand by starting production on new technologies that allow us to design and make better games". We can't use arguments like "They've always released the third game on the same system as the originals!" because that's speculative reasoning.

The DS broke the pattern of system releases since the GBC, where the release dates of Nintendo's new systems happened to be around the same time Game Freak finished off a generation with their enhanced version of a game. As the DS had such a long lifetime in comparison to the GBC and GBA, it just so happens that Game Freak's development schedule resulted in Black and White being ready in time to release on the DS, but ready too early to make any serious plans about 3DS development. The DS's long life is also the greatest problem - it shows its' age compared to today's electronics market, and even with the attempt in the DSi to patch up some of the fundamental flaws, Nintendo wants to get rid of the thing as soon as they can.

Khrysta
February 7th, 2012, 10:03 PM
...............

Do any of you OWN a 3DS?

If so...you should all know that the 3DS has a function for Download and Play that forces it into a DS style screen with Normal DS Functions. It temporarily switches. I use my 3DS and my DS to transfer and the 3DS is always receiving from my DS. The 3DS can connect to Normal DS transfer programming and wireless messages.

It just can't Pictochat. That's the only thing I can't seem to bring up.

Also as Megashock said (sorta) Nintendo sets what games come out for what system and the companies that make the games have to follow suit. Nintendo issues out a contract and the developing company has to meet the standards set by the contract. If it says they need a game to come out for the 3DS, then Gamefreak will have to work on a game for the 3DS or they won't make any money as they won't have anything to sell.

rocky505
February 7th, 2012, 10:50 PM
No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.

Yes they have. I will have the source later once I find it. It was said a while back. If you want to know about it go talk to serebii himself. They wouldnt use moving sprites just for one set of games. You do not change the images of Pokemon to a whole new level mid generation.

The 100 Mega Shock
February 9th, 2012, 11:12 AM
That's a lot of words for stalling.

Honestly, though, this is a question I've been wondering for a while.

What is a 'Generation'?

What is it other than a vaguely marketing related and often fan term, rarely used officially, that refers to a set of games that starts with a brand-new title and ends when the next original game comes out?

Does it hold any special meaning to Nintendo and Game Freak? Or do they see their games in terms of individual titles for them to do as much as they can on - or perhaps looking at their games in terms of the device they're made for, and the possibilities they have with it?

To steadfastly claim that a 'Generation' of Pokémon games must strictly cling to certain restrictions in resembling their predecessors, regardless of other circumstances, smacks of over-zealous speculation to me. I stand by my opinion that we're at point in time where we can't keep looking back at the old patterns and not acknowledge that a lot of things happening right now are different to what they were in the past.

A little change never hurt anybody.

fenyx4
February 9th, 2012, 11:58 AM
If you are talking about 3d models then no they will not use those. Gf have said already they will stay with sprites for art reasons.

No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.

Finally! Whew; I thought I'd never find this again, with the sheer number of "Pokemon-related interviews" roaming about the Internet. But yeah, I think this is the "interview" being discussed/referenced above:


"One of the reasons for sticking with the 2D Pokemon images is, with the 2D, it really depends on who draws it. There's a lot of personality that's drawn from the 2D images, whereas with 3D, it's the same model used for everything, so the personality doesn't really come out. One of the reasons we've stuck with 2D is to get a more individual feel with it." -Junichi Masuda
He went on to say that they aren't ruling out the possibility of 3D Pokemon in future releases and that it's a conscious decision made at the start of every project.

Source: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2011/03/01/why-wasnt-pokemon-black-and-white-made-for-3ds-and-why-are-pokemon-still-2d/

From what I understand, it seems that Game Freak prefers 2D sprite artwork for Pokemon because it evokes more of a 'personality' and is dependent on the artist who draws/sprites the Pokemon in question. Usage of 3D models still remains as a possibility in future Pokemon games, though.

-----

I'll probably elaborate more on my thoughts for this thread another time, but to sum up right now: I feel that the Nintendo 3DS is more likely for "Pokemon Gray", although the Nintendo DS cannot be necessarily ruled out, due to: wider availability of the DS, "Gray's" brethren versions (Pokemon Black and White Versions) being native to the DS, and Nintendo is still releasing games exclusively for DS despite the existence of the more-capable 3DS (Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition, so it seems).

Additional posts made prior to this one will likely be quoted for reply, when I get the time. >.>

HyperXhydra
February 9th, 2012, 10:26 PM
I have thought like this, since they removed the Pokemon animations like the Crystal and Emerald ones when the Pokemons are out from the Pokeball, I think it will make a return and they will just add it in the 3rd game, I don't know I just have a feeling they will do this.

And I don't think the 3rd game needs a 3DS as a platform, but Maybe the R/S remakes...

wombateiro
February 11th, 2012, 05:19 AM
I have thought like this, since they removed the Pokemon animations like the Crystal and Emerald ones when the Pokemons are out from the Pokeball, I think it will make a return and they will just add it in the 3rd game, I don't know I just have a feeling they will do this.

Not only Pokemon's intro animations are missing but also gym leaders', eilte four's and champion's. This could mean that sprites would be still used in Gray with additions of those animations.
If sprites would be still being used, it's possible that Gray would be on DS. Black's or White's file sizes are about 256 mb. The most capable DS cartridges can hold 512 mb of data. So there would be plenty of space to fit Gray's extra features and make back sprites less pixelated.

Maybe instead of 6 gen with another region and another bunch of new Pokemon, there would be ultimate 3DS game with all regions and ability to travel between them all at any time and storyline connecting all regions. Everything would be in 3d including Pokemon and people. That would be a game which would use 3DS potential both in graphics and amount of cartridge's memory which is 2 gb at this time and possibly will be increasing, just like DS' cartridges.

Archer
February 11th, 2012, 02:39 PM
Maybe instead of 6 gen with another region and another bunch of new Pokemon, there would be ultimate 3DS game with all regions and ability to travel between them all at any time and storyline connecting all regions. Everything would be in 3d including Pokemon and people. That would be a game which would use 3DS potential both in graphics and amount of cartridge's memory which is 2 gb at this time and possibly will be increasing, just like DS' cartridges.

Now, I hardly think they'd risk that. You know how often people already complain: "it's not as good as the last game - why did they leave this out?" If they create a be-all-and-end-all game, they won't be able to make a sequel for fear of it being a massive letdown.

As much as I would like to get another year or so out of my Gen1 DS, it makes sense from a business perspective to release it for the 3DS. Think about it:


People often buy consoles purely for Pokémon games
The 3DS has had very underwhelming sales
The PSVita has just been released.


Now if I were Nintendo, I'd be forcing Game Freak to develop for the 3DS. They need console sales and you have to kill off your old product when it gets to a certain age otherwise you cease making money from the hang-on consumers.

The only other possibility is that if they DO release Grey for the DS, I expect to see a Colosseum/XD-esque side-story released on the 3DS either concurrently or straight afterwards.

Attribule
February 11th, 2012, 04:40 PM
As much as I would like to get another year or so out of my Gen1 DS, it makes sense from a business perspective to release it for the 3DS. Think about it:


People often buy consoles purely for Pokémon games
The 3DS has had very underwhelming sales
The PSVita has just been released.


Now if I were Nintendo, I'd be forcing Game Freak to develop for the 3DS. They need console sales and you have to kill off your old product when it gets to a certain age otherwise you cease making money from the hang-on consumers.

Exactly.

The DS is getting on in its years, and the 3DS being the newer, more powerful platform, is going to be what's favored. They'll put more focus into making it fully compatible with the 3DS, and compatibility for the DS will be second priority, if there's room for it.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 23rd, 2012, 10:41 PM
Finally! Whew; I thought I'd never find this again, with the sheer number of "Pokemon-related interviews" roaming about the Internet. But yeah, I think this is the "interview" being discussed/referenced above:



From what I understand, it seems that Game Freak prefers 2D sprite artwork for Pokemon because it evokes more of a 'personality' and is dependent on the artist who draws/sprites the Pokemon in question. Usage of 3D models still remains as a possibility in future Pokemon games, though.

-----

I'll probably elaborate more on my thoughts for this thread another time, but to sum up right now: I feel that the Nintendo 3DS is more likely for "Pokemon Gray", although the Nintendo DS cannot be necessarily ruled out, due to: wider availability of the DS, "Gray's" brethren versions (Pokemon Black and White Versions) being native to the DS, and Nintendo is still releasing games exclusively for DS despite the existence of the more-capable 3DS (Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition, so it seems).

Additional posts made prior to this one will likely be quoted for reply, when I get the time. >.>

The interview in question relates to Pokémon Black and White, though. It's probably food for the fire when it comes to what they'll do with the supposed 3DS game, I guess.

I would still contest the idea that it'll ever reach the DS. There's not a single Nintendo-published game other than Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition that will reach the DS this year.

Brawly
February 24th, 2012, 06:24 PM
Hope its on DS, I don't feel like wasting money on a 3DS yet.

Tachikaze
February 24th, 2012, 10:01 PM
I hope it's on the 3DS. Much better platform, and much better graphics than if it were still for a DSi.

P0kelegend
February 24th, 2012, 10:05 PM
I hope it's on the 3DS. Much better platform, and much better graphics than if it were still for a DSi.

Agreed. Im hoping its on the 3DS.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 24th, 2012, 10:07 PM
I agree the graphics increase of a third version on then 3ds will make Bw look as if they were still part of gen IV in comparison, and hopefully the price will drop more by the time the third version comes out for those who lack one.

Khrysta
February 24th, 2012, 10:16 PM
I agree the graphics increase of a third version on then 3ds will make Bw look as if they were still part of gen IV in comparison, and hopefully the price will drop more by the time the third version comes out for those who lack one.

They don't plan to drop the price until they Discontinue the DSi. There is a rumor about them dropping the DSiXL's price before that, but I cannot confirm it.

Hoenn
February 25th, 2012, 03:19 AM
Well we've had BW, Pokemon + Nombunaga's Ambition for the DS so I'd assume that it would be for the 3DS due to the fact that's it is almost one year old too, they wouldn't go back to the DS now that they have started with the 3DS games.

Oshakpop
February 25th, 2012, 06:25 AM
I too think that it should be for 3DS. BW was released before the 3DS, but now, it's a year after the 3DS and it's initial release, nearly a year and half if you take it from when grey will be released (Sep most likely), if you don't have the 3DS by now, it's not for Nintendo to keep holding back the 3ds games because people haven't bought one yet.

Mew~
February 25th, 2012, 10:46 AM
The 3DS has already gone over the 5 million mark, I don't see why Game Freak wouldn't make the third game on the 3DS. Honestly, it would be a much better idea than putting it on the DS, which will probably have a few changes like they usually do, but with the 3DS, there's possibilities of much better graphics, expansion, and loads more space for other stuff.

Tachikaze
February 25th, 2012, 10:59 AM
The 3DS has already gone over the 5 million mark, I don't see why Game Freak wouldn't make the third game on the 3DS. Honestly, it would be a much better idea than putting it on the DS, which will probably have a few changes like they usually do, but with the 3DS, there's possibilities of much better graphics, expansion, and loads more space for other stuff.

This, pretty much. I don't see why they'd purposefully backtrack. And, the 3DS + new Pokemon game would be a pretty nice bundle that I imagine would sell pretty well.

Hoenn
February 25th, 2012, 11:37 AM
Well Pokémon is one of Nintendo's Best sellers if not THE best so to have it on the 3DS would be a huge money spinner.

Bluerang1
February 25th, 2012, 11:46 AM
I'm solely getting a 3DS for the Third game and I'm sure many more people will. I need to start saving...

Hoenn
February 25th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I wonder if they will introduce Street Pass into the third game if it's on 3DS or some sort of 3D exclusively enhanced features.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 12:03 PM
They proably will, maybe it'll have something to do with the Extralink, in BW they say that it used to be bigger in the past...so maybe they will reference this by adding new stuff in it using the streetpass feature if it's on the 3DS.

Though I wonder if GF will still make the sprites 2D despite making the game on the 3DS due to them being attached to sprites...

Omnomosauras
February 25th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Didnt see this coming. Not a third game, but two new games. Pokemon Black 2 and White 2

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Good news for those without a 3Ds the two "third versions" are for the DS :)

JP
February 25th, 2012, 03:43 PM
I'm honestly not sure if I'm happy about 2 new games or annoyed. I love getting third versions, but is two "third versions" really necessary? I hope there's some major differences this time around then! The new formes do look fantastic though, really liking them.

Oh shoot, seems I may have posted in the wrong topic. Whoops.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 25th, 2012, 04:16 PM
When you choose to develop for the DS? You cut off any 3DS features you'd ever want to use.

It's for the DS. No StreetPass. No SpotPass. Maybe you'll be able to hang on to that 802.11g and WPA2 support, though.

The release on the DS, and the movie release date, suggests a quick cash-in on the next movie, but I doubt GameFreak aren't developing a 3DS game simultaneously. Obviously, this game isn't the 3DS game they would have in store.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 04:31 PM
When you choose to develop for the DS? You cut off any 3DS features you'd ever want to use.

It's for the DS. No StreetPass. No SpotPass. Maybe you'll be able to hang on to that 802.11g and WPA2 support, though.

The release on the DS, and the movie release date, suggests a quick cash-in on the next movie, but I doubt GameFreak aren't developing a 3DS game simultaneously. Obviously, this game isn't the 3DS game they would have in store.
Yeah...and the date could also be a quick way to finish off gen V or at least the Unova part of the generation on the ds and start the remakes or gen VI on the 3ds...

Hikamaru
February 25th, 2012, 05:29 PM
I heard somewhere it would be compatible with all DS models and 3DS, what a relief for someone who hasn't got a 3DS yet.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 05:31 PM
I heard somewhere it would be compatible with all DS models and 3DS, what a relief for someone who hasn't got a 3DS yet.
This is true :) For once GF thought about all it's fans by making it for all systems.

Team Fail
February 25th, 2012, 05:33 PM
I heard somewhere it would be compatible with all DS models and 3DS, what a relief for someone who hasn't got a 3DS yet.

Eventually, they'll go to the 3DS and won't turn back. I do hope they have a DS and a 3DS version, or at least some 3DS capabilities, but I hope they don't region-lock it. I might get a Japanese copy if it isn't.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 25th, 2012, 05:48 PM
I heard somewhere it would be compatible with all DS models and 3DS, what a relief for someone who hasn't got a 3DS yet.
The 3DS is compatible with almost all DS games by default. Any game that plays on a DSi will play on the 3DS.

Bluemoon
February 25th, 2012, 06:15 PM
http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/common/images/txt_sml_3ds.png
This is on the bottom of the official website so it MAY be for the 3DS

I am actually someon who is studying the Japanese language and i tried to translate this and here is what i got:

"Should be played on Nintendo 3ds."

ニンテンドー3ds = nintendo 3ds
遊=play
べ=should
でま=on

G.U.Y.
February 25th, 2012, 06:16 PM
I am actually someon who is studying the Japanese language and i tried to translate this and here is what i got:

"Should be played on Nintendo 3ds."

ニンテンドー3ds = nintendo 3ds
遊=play
べ=should
でま=on

Which would suggest that it has 3DS enhancements.

It says on that same website, in the video itself that it is for the DS. But that implies there are 3DS enhancements. Yay~

Hoenn
February 25th, 2012, 06:37 PM
I'm kinda disappointed that's its not on the 3DS, it would have made the game much more awesome.

Seki
February 25th, 2012, 06:42 PM
I don't know, I read from many sources that say its going to be on the DS, I really hope that its on the DS because I don't want to spend a few 100 bucks just on a 3DS.

G.U.Y.
February 25th, 2012, 06:47 PM
I don't know, I read from many sources that say its going to be on the DS, I really hope that its on the DS because I don't want to spend a few 100 bucks just on a 3DS.

It IS on the DS. It's just 3DS compatible like every single other DS game.

BIG PROOF BELOW
http://i.imgur.com/UMY2H.jpg (http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/?a001=msign)

Killjoy
February 25th, 2012, 07:08 PM
BIG PROOF BELOW
http://i.imgur.com/UMY2H.jpg (http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/?a001=msign)

Good god.... they're.. beautiful


I'm glad, for the most part that it'll be on DS. I just got back into Pokemon, and thus have only owned my DSi a few months ago.

Sverige
February 25th, 2012, 07:14 PM
There will probably be 3DS enhanced features like there were before with the DSi.

Platinum Lucario
February 25th, 2012, 07:18 PM
I wasn't surprised that it was going to be for Nintendo DS, as I assumed it was going to be Pokémon Gray, turned out to be two sequels to Black/White. Now I wish it was a 3DS exclusive, 'cause they could've used 3D models, but I assume that will be left for generation 6, more than likely.

Tachikaze
February 25th, 2012, 10:15 PM
I would have rathered it be a 3DS exclusive. Sure it's "3ds compatible" but compatibilty with a next gen console and actually being FOR a next gen console are two completely different things. It'll be awfully hard to do all these amazing thing Nintendo has promised on a DSi.

G.U.Y.
February 26th, 2012, 02:43 AM
The reason that they are for the DS and not 3DS is because Black and White were already pretty far in development when Gamefreak received the 3DS Dev kit used to make games for the 3DS.

Sure, they could have made B2/W2 completely from scratch, but that probably would have added at least a year onto the release date for very minor differences.

pokehearts
February 26th, 2012, 04:37 PM
I was looking at the Pokemon Black and White 2 official website and I stumbled across something peculiar. I was looking at the bottom and I saw one number and two letters in the English language, 3DS. Does this mean that Pokemon Black and White 2 are coming out for the 3DS?

There's a screenshot in the attachments taken from the website.
Also, Here's the link to the official website. Go to the bottom of the page and look at the right corner:http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/

Forever
February 26th, 2012, 04:55 PM
I was looking at the Pokemon Black and White 2 official website and I stumbled across something peculiar. I was looking at the bottom and I saw one number and two letters in the English language, 3DS. Does this mean that Pokemon Black and White 2 are coming out for the 3DS?

There's a screenshot in the attachments taken from the website.
Also, Here's the link to the official website. Go to the bottom of the page and look at the right corner:http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/b2w2/

Well people are saying it officially isn't (afaik I think that's right) so I merged with Platform Discussion so you can discuss how you feel about it.

Marilynasol
February 26th, 2012, 10:12 PM
Please read the official announcement on Pokemon.com. Just click on the preview and it should lead you to a page with brief, useless information on the new games.

Pokémon fans, get excited for two incredible new adventures! Announcing Pokémon Black Version 2 and Pokémon White Version 2, coming soon for the Nintendo DS™ family of systems. The games can also be played in 2D on the Nintendo 3DS™ system.

The games are being released for the Nintendo DS. There aren't going to be any extra features if played on the 3DS; if played on the 3DS it would only be taking advantage of the system's backwards compatibility.

Cazzef
February 26th, 2012, 11:02 PM
I felt down when I read that the games where for the Nintendo DS and not 3DS, but I sort of expected it anyway, I just can't wait for a mainstream Pokemon game on 3DS, they could do loads of things to suprise us with 3D I imagine... But hey, I have a feeling these 'sequels' will be much greater than their predecessor.

Hiroshi Sotomura
February 26th, 2012, 11:08 PM
The reason that they are for the DS and not 3DS is because Black and White were already pretty far in development when Gamefreak received the 3DS Dev kit used to make games for the 3DS.

Sure, they could have made B2/W2 completely from scratch, but that probably would have added at least a year onto the release date for very minor differences.

Depends on how they're doing it. It's not necessarily hard to port a DS game to the 3DS, and for all we know, they've probably been porting the engine simultaneously inside GameFreak. They'd have to retexture a lot of things (which isn't hard to do) and some code would need to be changed as well.

Still up in the clouds as to how minor the differences in these games are.

vaporeon7
February 27th, 2012, 10:26 PM
I would have rather it be on 3DS only because then Nica would have to get one >:) I feel that the DS is in the past now and they should just move forward to 3DS only. I'm not sure if the 3D enhancements will be just some fancy graphics on Skyarrow Bridge and Castelia City or a full blown battle revamp like Colosseum. I'll be happy with either though.

The Author
February 28th, 2012, 08:19 AM
I would have rather it be on 3DS only because then Nica would have to get one >:)

C'mon, let's be nice to Nica. :P
Personally, I think it should be on the DS because that's what B/W were on. I could see them doing R/S remakes on the 3DS, but not B2/W2.