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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
January 21st, 2012, 01:49 PM
How many formes do you expect kyurem to get?
How do you think it'll look?
How do you think it'll transform?
How do you think it gets Burn freeze and shock freeze?

PlatinumDude
January 21st, 2012, 04:51 PM
I expect Kyurem to get only one form, and that form will be its "complete form." Similar to Giratina and Shaymin, Kyurem can change forms with an item (key or held; not sure). I think that Kyurem will learn both Cold Flare and Freeze Bolt at level 100 (similar to how Reshiram and Zekrom learn Blue Flare and Bolt Strike, respectively, at that level).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
January 21st, 2012, 07:35 PM
I expect its other forme to be based on an asian dragon, maybe it'll be shown holding the god stone in it's claws as there are legends about a dragon's pearl being the souce of their power...
I also think that it's move Glaciate will transform into one of the two sig moves maybe one can choose which one, like a move version of rotom's forme changing and learn the one it doesn't know at lv 100...

wombateiro
January 22nd, 2012, 03:29 AM
I created this thread to show why I think new form of Kyurem is needed and how it would be possibly created, basing on Taosism.

Reshiram and Zekrom are based on Yin and Yang.
Yin and Yang are two opposite forces which are often unbalanced. When one is increasing the other one is decreasing. It can be seen in final battle with N in both versions of game. In Black when Reshiram is winning, Zekrom is losing. In White when Zekrom is winning, Reshiram is losing. They are unbalanced in both versions just like Yin and Yang.

Current form of Kyurem is based on Wuji – the state state of harmony and balance. It is limitless and infinite. That’s why I think N’s and Ghetsis’ last name is Harmonia, because it relates to harmony of Wuji and Kyurem.

The only state of energy that is missing in Tao trio now is Taiji – the state when energy is separated between Yin and Yang, but they remain together combined as one. And I think new form of Kyurem will be based on Taiji – it will be combined with Reshiram’s and Zekrom’s energies as one. Taiji is described as "Supreme Ultimate" state of undifferentiated absolute and infinite potentiality. I’m expecting new form of Kyurem will be as supreme ultimate as Taiji.

I think in Grey there will be cutscene at Dragonspiral Tower in which Light Stone (Yin) and Dark Stone (Yang) will be combined into God Stone (Taichi), creating new form of Kyurem and N will catch it.

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee405/gyhak/taotrio.jpg

Forever
January 22nd, 2012, 03:54 AM
I created this thread to show why I think new form of Kyurem is needed and how it would be possibly created, basing on Taosism.

Reshiram and Zekrom are based on Yin and Yang.
Yin and Yang are two opposite forces which are often unbalanced. When one is increasing the other one is decreasing. It can be seen in final battle with N in both versions of game. In Black when Reshiram is winning, Zekrom is losing. In White when Zekrom is winning, Reshiram is losing. They are unbalanced in both versions just like Yin and Yang.

Current form of Kyurem is based on Wuji – the state state of harmony and balance. It is limitless and infinite. That’s why I think N’s and Ghetsis’ last name is Harmonia, because it relates to harmony of Wuji and Kyurem.

The only state of energy that is missing in Tao trio now is Taiji – the state when energy is separated between Yin and Yang, but they remain together combined as one. And I think new form of Kyurem will be based on Taiji – it will be combined with Reshiram’s and Zekrom’s energies as one. Taiji is described as "Supreme Ultimate" state of undifferentiated absolute and infinite potentiality. I’m expecting new form of Kyurem will be as supreme ultimate as Taiji.

I think in Grey there will be cutscene at Dragonspiral Tower in which Light Stone (Yin) and Dark Stone (Yang) will be combined into God Stone (Taichi), creating new form of Kyurem and N will catch it.

Well that's good and all but you were already beaten to a Kyurem forme thread by a few hours :( It's fine to have missed it in the mass of new threads, but merged anyway!

Personally I feel like it'll have just a different design with not that much different as its "secondary" forme, really. I know we can all hope but I really don't think there will be anything else. :(

Kotowari
January 22nd, 2012, 04:10 AM
I kind of hope it'll have a secondary form, which will allow it to have more movement and such. I was kind of disappointed when I recieved Kyurem on Pokédex 3D, since, compared to Reshiram and Zekrom, it's movent is quite stiff and dull.

If it's truely the 3rd wheel of the Tao trio, I expect Kyurem's "awakened" form to me more epic than it currently is. It's partially frozen, which eplains it's stiffness, but perhaps when it awakens, it'll be able to truely manipulate the ice that has been covering it: Fully growing its wings, walking up straight, perhaps more ornamentations...

Wouldn't it make more sense if N tried to capture it (with Zekrom/Reshiram for example), but failed? After all, the mascot Pokémon is destined to end up in your/the player's hands. You could use the other one of the two to defeat and catch it, which one could be decided in-story somehow.

wombateiro
January 22nd, 2012, 04:28 AM
If it's truely the 3rd wheel of the Tao trio, I expect Kyurem's "awakened" form to me more epic than it currently is. It's partially frozen, which eplains it's stiffness, but perhaps when it awakens, it'll be able to truely manipulate the ice that has been covering it: Fully growing its wings, walking up straight, perhaps more ornamentations...

Pokedex entry of Kyurem: "It generates a powerful, freezing energy inside itself, but its body became frozen when the energy leaked out."

It clearly states it was frozen by it's own energy. So there must had been more powerful and better looking form before.

Wouldn't it make more sense if N tried to capture it (with Zekrom/Reshiram for example), but failed? After all, the mascot Pokémon is destined to end up in your/the player's hands. You could use the other one of the two to defeat and catch it, which one could be decided in-story somehow.

You're right about that player should get Kyurem, maybe it will be something like this: N will create new Kyurem's form with Zekrom's and Reshiram's energy at Dragonspiral Tower and it will be powerful enough to not be caught by N and will escape. Later it would go to N's castle just before battle and choose player to be it's trainer.

Kotowari
January 22nd, 2012, 04:46 AM
Pokedex entry of Kyurem: "It generates a powerful, freezing energy inside itself, but its body became frozen when the energy leaked out."

It clearly states it was frozen by it's own energy. So there must had been more powerful and better looking form before.

I didn't know about the Pokédex entry, but it doesn't take away the option of Kyurem "re-awakening". As the engery leaked out of his body, Kyurem got frozen (as stated in the entry), but perhaps the 3rd game could tell how Kyurem got to manipulate that energy again, changing its frozen body to its advantage, instead of the major hindrance it is now.

I have to admit though, that I do not know the circumstances under which Kyurem is caught as I've yet to do so. I'm basically letting my fantasy run wild with the concept of a frozen dragon, which I find quite interesting.


You're right about that player should get Kyurem, maybe it will be something like this: N will create new Kyurem's form with Zekrom's and Reshiram's energy at Dragonspiral Tower and it will be powerful enough to not be caught by N and will escape. Later it would go to N's castle just before battle and choose player to be it's trainer.

You will have to fight it somehow. Perhaps this new Kyurem would try to harm N after he dared to catch him, but the trainer (being the epithome of good as they always are) would somehow manage to catch Kyurem's attention, triggering the first Legendary battle.
I would also like to see the idea (like in Emerald) where you can catch both Reshiram and Zekrom (or at least one, story-determined) after having fought Kyurem.

Oryx
February 3rd, 2012, 07:41 AM
Thought this might be interesting (http://pokebeach.com/2012/02/placeholder-for-kyurem-forme-found-in-black-and-white-coding).

It's worth noting that if this is how it's going to work that Kyurem won't be backwards compatible with B/W.

Xander Olivieri
February 3rd, 2012, 04:56 PM
Thought this might be interesting (http://pokebeach.com/2012/02/placeholder-for-kyurem-forme-found-in-black-and-white-coding).

It's worth noting that if this is how it's going to work that Kyurem won't be backwards compatible with B/W.

It'll be interesting if that's not left over data from beta testing. Why did it take so long for this info to come up is my only question though. They've ripped all this info before why was this missed?

Was this in Diamond and Pearl with Shaymin, Giratina and Rotom?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 3rd, 2012, 05:44 PM
It'll be interesting if that's not left over data from beta testing. Why did it take so long for this info to come up is my only question though. They've ripped all this info before why was this missed?

Was this in Diamond and Pearl with Shaymin, Giratina and Rotom?

The link mentions that it was in Dp for Shaymin, Rotom, and Giratina. It also gives a reason why it took so long...
So this makes it seem very likely that Kyurem will get a new Forme...

Xander Olivieri
February 3rd, 2012, 06:21 PM
What will happen if there is no new form in the up coming movie? Will this mean that everything said is false or something?

I'm asking cause of something they mentioned about Pikachu. They said all other Pokemon have a 0 because there are no sprite changes. Is there a different coding for Males and Females then? If not then their information seems a little off. There is also Spinda who has the moving spots.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 3rd, 2012, 07:49 PM
Uh Pikachu was merely an example of a pokemon with a 0...though you do raise an interesting point on Spinda...maybe Spinda and the gender differences codes are different then those (?)...
Though I still think Kyuren will get a new forme either in the upcoming movie or in the one after that...

Xander Olivieri
February 3rd, 2012, 08:41 PM
Wow...Just read that that link is just a rumor. I thought it was actual proof. None of the other sites are taking it seriously until there is more confirmation.

Satoshi Ookami
February 4th, 2012, 12:13 AM
Wow...Just read that that link is just a rumor. I thought it was actual proof. None of the other sites are taking it seriously until there is more confirmation.
I also thought it was kinda fishy...
Though we already know of unused Ice type attacks so we should still presume that Kyurem will get new form :)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 4th, 2012, 02:15 AM
A rumor...well back to square one...
True we do have the moves, plus it's movie might feature it...
I can Imagine it's "lights" (the spikes that look like ice on it's wings) fully light up in a strong glow as in it's pokedex 3D animation Kyurem's wing spikes glow light yellow as well as the area behind it's head...Maybe it's other forme will even have some lines running though it like Zekrom that light up.

Azureth
February 9th, 2012, 10:51 AM
Just thought I'd bring this here for those who haven't seen or heard of this yet.

http://pokebeach.com/2012/02/placeholder-for-kyurem-forme-found-in-black-and-white-coding

With this new information, Kyurem's chance at getting a new forme has become much greater. Personally, I'd like a new forme for Kyurem as long as the creators don't mess it up somehow.

Your thoughts?

fenyx4
February 9th, 2012, 11:07 AM
Wow...you'd think that something like this would have been noticed months ago with all of the scouring for hidden data in Black/White Versions. :cer_laugh: But it does seem like it would take some time to understand the usage of such "Forme" placeholders, since we did not have any "Forme" precedents aside from Deoxys during Diamond and Pearl's release (excluding Unown, Spinda, etc.). Props to Game Freak for such strategic planning/meticulous preparation in advance, though. :cer_nod:

I was kind of hoping that Kyuremu wouldn't have another Forme, because it looks like that "third version's legendary gaining an additional Forme" is going to become a trend in future generations, following the "pattern" of Giratina and (supposedly) Kyuremu's acquisition of new Formes. As long as a new Forme looks/fights great, I'll likely have no qualms about it.

On the other hand, if this (the revelation of a new Forme for Kyuremu via deeply-hidden placeholder data) does turn out to be true in the near future, it kind of ruins the 'guessing game' of who's going to get a new Forme in a future Pokemon game/version... >.>

I'm wondering if the same thing (for Deoxys) is present in Ruby/Sapphire as well...

Xander Olivieri
February 9th, 2012, 11:23 AM
That was posted already and is just a rumor that neither Serebii or Bulbapedia believe.

No one else has posted acknowledgement about that code just yet so it is still a factless rumor until more teams find it.

The Nightmare
February 9th, 2012, 11:46 AM
thats awsome, but wouldn't kyreum look more ugly if there was another forme?

GokuRikaku
February 9th, 2012, 11:55 AM
thats awsome, but wouldn't kyreum look more ugly if there was another forme?

Thats only to one's opinion. I don't find Kyurem ugly, its not suppose to look cute.

Anyways, while this may mean that it theres a good chance for it to gain a new form (What would it be called anyways? The Glacier Forme?), its not a 100% chance that it will happen. They may have other plans for it. But if it does get a new form, I hope it will give it some new toys to play with cause compare Kyurem with Zekrom and Reshiram, this monster isn't as threating as those two.

TheronElite
February 9th, 2012, 03:22 PM
Thats only to one's opinion. I don't find Kyurem ugly, its not suppose to look cute.

Anyways, while this may mean that it theres a good chance for it to gain a new form (What would it be called anyways? The Glacier Forme?), its not a 100% chance that it will happen. They may have other plans for it. But if it does get a new form, I hope it will give it some new toys to play with cause compare Kyurem with Zekrom and Reshiram, this monster isn't as threating as those two.
I think it will get two more forms. The moves Freeze Burn and like Ice Shock or something will go to each form. Or maybe it will only be one and it will get both. There's no way to know for sure, but I am certain there will be another form.

Taro Tanaka
February 9th, 2012, 04:10 PM
I wouldn'tbe surprised if it got a new forme in the third version. I mean, rumor has it that Kyurem is the reanimated corpse of the once-living Pokemon that Reshiram and Zekrom were. If this is true, then we may get to see how it looked like before separating into said dragons. And chances are that it'll be an alternate forme for Kyurem.

Forever
February 9th, 2012, 04:38 PM
That was posted already and is just a rumor that neither Serebii or Bulbapedia believe.

No one else has posted acknowledgement about that code just yet so it is still a factless rumor until more teams find it.

If it was posted already, then you should've used the report button instead of post here. :3

Either way, since there's slight discussion, merged with the forme discussion thread 'cause it needs that potential activity compared to the other threads on things that relate to the third game.

Beloved
February 9th, 2012, 04:49 PM
I wouldn'tbe surprised if it got a new forme in the third version. I mean, rumor has it that Kyurem is the reanimated corpse of the once-living Pokemon that Reshiram and Zekrom were. If this is true, then we may get to see how it looked like before separating into said dragons. And chances are that it'll be an alternate forme for Kyurem.

Problem: There was no corpse to reanimate, the original Pokemon split into two forms, it did not die. Plus, it is even stated that Kyurem's own power froze it when its body was broken, evident by its wing.

Now, as for a forme, I'd say it is quite possible that Kyurem will have a second form. Simple: N finds Kyurem and sees the injury. He wills his legendary to heal Kyurem, hoping to gain another ally. Kyurem recovers to his Origin forme, and turns on N, wreaking havoc on Unova.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 9th, 2012, 10:09 PM
^ Poor N...if that happened...
What the zombie theory is that the two dragon's came from Kyurem like Ninjask did from Nincada, and left behind a shell which became Shedinja, something around those lines...
Anyways I think Kyurem's new forme will dominately be gray like Reshiram and Zekrom which are almost pure white. Half of it could be dark grey or light grey.

wombateiro
February 10th, 2012, 01:00 AM
Since it's very likely that new form would be mix of Reshiram's and Zekrom's energy, it's possible that even their designs would be mixed.
It would look awesome, wouldn't it?

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee405/gyhak/newform.jpg

Forever
February 10th, 2012, 01:10 AM
Can I just say that's amazing and if Kyurem gets any forme it needs to be something along those lines, Kyurem's forme would be perfect, omg.

P0kelegend
February 10th, 2012, 02:13 AM
Whoa, that would literally just be amazing. Looks great! Hopefully if it does get the new forme they make something just as good.

wombateiro
February 13th, 2012, 09:29 AM
If they won't reveal Kyurem's new form on final movie 15 poster, do you think they would reveal it right before movie on single poster, like Shaymin's new form or maybe reveal it in movie 16, next year?
Imo Kyurem is too important to have new form excluded from final poster, but what's your opinion?
Final posters are usually revealed in the beginning of March, while "cast" is revealed earlier in Corocoro and current Corocoro seems to have nothing new about Kyurem.
So maybe it's true that new Kyurem's form and Gray will be revealed in 2013? That means R/S remakes in this year.
Gray in 2013 would be a bit unfitting for anime, especially with Opelucid City, but screw that XD.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 14th, 2012, 06:44 PM
Well in the Cococoro teaser for the next issue it said there was someother interesting thing it that doesn't have to do with Keldeo, so it may be a new Kyurem forme...I sure hope it is, I want to know whether Kyurem is really the original pokemon or just a piece and the original won't show up until later...

wombateiro
February 16th, 2012, 03:59 AM
Maybe that next Corocoro will be about Ice Burn and Freeze Shock, not about new form...

Anyways I wonder what Keldeo's role will be, and if that'll have any impact on the third version...maybe it's revealed that Kyurem started the fire (Freeze burn?).

That made me think if maybe there are two stories prepared for Kyurem... One with old form and Musketeers for movie 15 and another one with new form and Tao Trio for movie 16. So maybe Gray and new form is prepared for the next year? That could mean R/S remakes this year.

Xander Olivieri
February 16th, 2012, 01:00 PM
If it was posted already, then you should've used the report button instead of post here. :3

Either way, since there's slight discussion, merged with the forme discussion thread 'cause it needs that potential activity compared to the other threads on things that relate to the third game.
I'm supposed to report rumors? I don't quite understand that....When that was posted as a separate thread, it was huge and only that website linked had that information. I searched Bulbapedia and Serebii forums and finally found a discussion on it and both said that their game rippers couldn't find that coding at that time so neither site were seeing it more than a rumor until more people came with evidence to support it.

I don't see why I was suppose to report that thread, it was valid in its own right.

Problem: There was no corpse to reanimate, the original Pokemon split into two forms, it did not die. Plus, it is even stated that Kyurem's own power froze it when its body was broken, evident by its wing.

Now, as for a forme, I'd say it is quite possible that Kyurem will have a second form. Simple: N finds Kyurem and sees the injury. He wills his legendary to heal Kyurem, hoping to gain another ally. Kyurem recovers to his Origin forme, and turns on N, wreaking havoc on Unova.

You! For just the first half of this post I luff you! I've been saying the same thing since Kyurem was discovered TTwTT

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 17th, 2012, 08:24 PM
I think that Kyurem's alternate forme will be appearing soon, maybe in next Month's cococoro.
I think that the God stone will be like the Gracidia flower, it'll transform Kyurem by Key item instead of equiping it like Giratina's Griseous orb. Maybe it'll also require the presence of one of the other tao member's in the party similar to how Mantyke requires Remoraid in the party to evolve, of course in this case it'll be forme change.

P0kelegend
February 20th, 2012, 10:01 PM
A new movie 15 poster will be out in the beginning of March, which will likely be the official poster since most official posters are revealed in March. A new trailer will be aired in some theaters in Japan starting March 3rd too.


All of that is making me think Kyurem's new forme will be revealed on Pokemon Smash so then the official poster and new trailer can be released at the beginning of March showing its new forme.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 20th, 2012, 11:31 PM
I was watching the new short trailer of the movie on pokebeach and one of the moves Kyurem used looked like Shock freeze meaning that those two moves will be in the third version as predicted (maybe a Bw event too).
They might release Kyurem's next forme next week if not this week since it's almost march... and wasn't Giratina's Origin forme released around early March too? Hmm, wonder what it's new form will be called... some suggested two possible names earlier, maybe it'll be called after those.

wombateiro
February 21st, 2012, 01:34 AM
Nope, Giratina's new form was revealed in February Corocoro together with Shaymin.
I think new Kyurem's form could be called Taiji form and the old one Wuji form.

BTW, Kyurem on that short trailer looks kinda like running chicken, lol.

cnpeqjDVVP8

If it's true that Kyurem is using Freeze Shock, it means that new form is not required for those two hidden attacks. So maybe they will reveal just those attacks?

Xander Olivieri
February 21st, 2012, 06:53 AM
Nope, Giratina's new form was revealed in February Corocoro together with Shaymin.
I think new Kyurem's form could be called Taiji form and the old one Wuji form.

BTW, Kyurem on that short trailer looks kinda like running chicken, lol.

cnpeqjDVVP8

If it's true that Kyurem is using Freeze Shock, it means that new form is not required for those two hidden attacks. So maybe they will reveal just those attacks?

Hope someone says what that attack actually was cause that could have easily been a simple Ice beam. Since Ice Beam in the anime has always looked like lightning bolts that freeze stuff.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 21st, 2012, 07:17 AM
Well to me it looked different than a simple ice beam but I can be wrong, they're to release a longer trailer then, maybe we'll know soon enough. Also do most of the Pokemon movie's have flames when the title shows up? Cause if not then it could be referencing Burn freeze, or the moor fire.

Treble Harble
February 21st, 2012, 09:08 AM
How many formes do you expect kyurem to get? It'll only one other form. Two new forms would be too many if you as me.

How do you think it'll transform? Possibly by an item. Maybe that other stone that we can't get in Black & White.

How do you think it gets Burn freeze and shock freeze? It will probably know them automatically when you are battling it. Or maybe it will only know these two moves when it is in its other form.

As for how it looks I honestly don't know.

bwburke94
February 21st, 2012, 04:30 PM
Kyurem's getting either an alternate form or a revised learnset (we know that because of its unused moves) and I'm guessing it gets both. I'm further guessing that because there is no hidden Mold Breaker equivalent, it gets either Mold Breaker itself or Levitate. The God Stone will be Kyurem itself.

Tachikaze
February 22nd, 2012, 09:46 PM
If it gets a new form, you'll either have to attach the so-called 'God Stone' to it, or take it to a special place. I'm almost certain you'll need the item to do so.

vaporeon7
February 23rd, 2012, 12:14 AM
If Kyurem gets two formes, Freeze Shock will be available to one and Ice Burn to the other. It'll probably get adjusted stats with the Freeze Shock forme having higher attack and the Ice Burn forme having higher special attack.

Kaori
February 23rd, 2012, 03:17 AM
That'd be pretty cool but it seems unlikely for Kyurem to get two forms. It'll probably be able to use both moves without having to have two forms.

I think both of its signature moves will already be set for Kyurem when you battle it, or at least one of the two at first. Then the other attack would be known at a certain level. Basic but simple and well, predictable perhaps?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 23rd, 2012, 10:28 PM
Maybe there's a chance involved with Kyurem's move, like there's a 50 % chance it'll have Freeze Burn and it'll learn the other later and vice versa if it get's Freeze shock first.

Tachikaze
February 24th, 2012, 11:05 PM
It will probably learn both by having Reshiram & Zekrom in your party or something like that. Like via a move tutor or something.

Platinum Lucario
February 25th, 2012, 01:53 AM
It will probably learn both by having Reshiram & Zekrom in your party or something like that. Like via a move tutor or something.

Now that kinda gave me an idea. Maybe Reshiram and Zekrom won't be available for catching in Pokémon Gray? Maybe it might have two formes or it might not have any forme at all. If it did have a secondary forme, it would probably be called the Harmony forme, and the other called the Separated forme.

wombateiro
February 25th, 2012, 02:27 AM
Kyurem shouldn't have two new forms, it would ruin the whole concept of combining yin and yang. Also if Kyurem is going to be a mascot there should be one form as mascot. Two of them wouldn't fit with one game's name, unless they would name it Black and White version but that would be strange.

Blue
February 25th, 2012, 03:40 AM
I'm looking forward to Kyurems forme, I'd love it to be like the one in that Youtube video!

Kaori
February 25th, 2012, 07:05 AM
Maybe there's a chance involved with Kyurem's move, like there's a 50 % chance it'll have Freeze Burn and it'll learn the other later and vice versa if it get's Freeze shock first.
Why would they do that though? I mean, would it be determined with certain natures?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 01:32 PM
^ Well I was thinking more on the lines of what determine's Spinda and Unoun formes but in this case determines the move...and maybe even what Legend N get's first...
Or they could simply use trainer Id like they do with the lottery or create a new rate that determines the move.

Update: Serebii posted this up detailing Kyurem's alternate forme's
http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml
Note this is unconfirmed. So it seems like it was two new formes after all...

Xander Olivieri
February 25th, 2012, 02:59 PM
We'll have to wait for Smash to finish and for the Japanese Literate to translate everything for those of us ignorant to the Japanese language.

EDIT 1:I'm stalking Masuda's Twitter now~

EDIT 2:Watch Kyurem lose its Ice or Dragon Typing when it changes form now -w-

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 03:05 PM
True...but those two came from a different website, so my guess is that Serebii.net already translated the source, now we just need comfirmation on these formes from Pokemon Smash.

Xander Olivieri
February 25th, 2012, 03:12 PM
What will happen if that Poster doesn't appear on Smash or if there is a different announcement?


EDIT: Am I the only one who is greatly disturbed and highly annoyed that the new forms are nothing more than Reshiram and Zekrom traced with bits of Kyurem glued here and there?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 03:37 PM
No you're not...they do look strange...this gen looks like a copy and paste of sprites...just look at the Kami trio...oh well, I kind of like them...

Well they are freaky but they're kind of cool (no pun intended) in a strange way ^_^
By the way I just figured out what Kyurem's tail was, it was a grapling hook cause if you look at it's Zek-kyu forme it looks like it's graping the turbine.

Forever
February 25th, 2012, 09:17 PM
I love how they look tbh, it even looks better than the image posted earlier in this thread. I had an interesting thought earlier, though.

Maybe it takes an item to get Kyurem that way, and kinda like Arceus or something, if it holds _______ it turns into Black Kyurem which is Electric/Ice, and if it has __________ it White Kyurem, which is Fire/Ice.

Personally I'd love those typings, and if it stayed dragon/ice normally. :3; Besides, the main image seems to imply that!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 09:45 PM
Well some are speculating that it'll be Ice/ Electric and Ice/Fire
I like the new formes a lot too. I'm not sure which one I like best...
It's possible that the god stone along with another event or an item could trigger the forme chance later in the game. I don't want them to make the God stone useless...

AvatarMew
February 25th, 2012, 11:04 PM
Why can't it have 3 types?... Electric/ice/dragon and Fire/ice/drgaon?... It it STILL a Dragon type... It wouldn't be right to take it's typing away...

Tachikaze
February 25th, 2012, 11:42 PM
What will happen if that Poster doesn't appear on Smash or if there is a different announcement?


EDIT: Am I the only one who is greatly disturbed and highly annoyed that the new forms are nothing more than Reshiram and Zekrom traced with bits of Kyurem glued here and there?

I agree completely. I wouldn't mind so much if they were the same color throughout. But it looks like they just stuck random stuff on Kyurem as a base. Mine will never leave its box if that's what they do indeed look like.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 25th, 2012, 11:58 PM
Why can't it have 3 types?... Electric/ice/dragon and Fire/ice/drgaon?... It it STILL a Dragon type... It wouldn't be right to take it's typing away...

Cause that would break the type balances in place...
Kind of ironic that Reshiram who had tons of resistance's in it's normal form has Kyurem white form have 4 times weakness to rock if it is indeed Fire/Ice.

PlatinumDude
February 26th, 2012, 12:08 AM
I love the new Kyurem formes, particularly the Reshiram version.

Also, anyone remember Cold Flare and Freeze Bolt (the 2 hidden moves in the original B/W)? I think that Kyurem's Reshiram forme will get Cold Flare, while Kyurem's Zekrom forme will get Freeze Bolt (and both moves will be learned at level 100 in their respective formes).

Forever
February 26th, 2012, 12:28 AM
Wait hang on, this new Kyurem forme would learn different attacks w/ the relevant effects, yeah? So we could end up seeing White Kyurem learning Scald, yaaay! I hope? ;x Well, maybe... idk.

miltankRancher
February 26th, 2012, 05:34 AM
I hate the new Kyurem formes revealed in Serebii. They look like, cheap fakemons of Reshi and Zek. And some fakemons are way more better than that.

awolfsquared
February 26th, 2012, 07:40 AM
I think it will just have two new formes cause It's not exactly a new Gen , just a sequel. The games will be compatible with BW and since there's already placeholder data for a Kyurem forme, maybe we will be able to get Black or White Kyurem in our Black/White depending on which copy we own. Meaning people who own Black can get White Kyurem and people with White can get Black Kyurem, sort of like Reshiram and Zekrom.

deoxys121
February 26th, 2012, 08:30 AM
Well, we already know Kyurem has two unused signature moves that exist in the coding of Black and White (Freeze Shock (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Freeze_Shock_(move)) and Ice Burn (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ice_Burn_(move))). Obviously, the Zekrom form will get Freeze Shock, and the Reshiram form will get Ice Burn. Since these moves already exist in the coding, it suggests to me that these forms might be compatible with the original Black and White. Now, if these forms are going to be usable in the metagame, then they will have to be compatible at least for viewing on the original Black and White. Whether the forms will be tradable, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

And as far as typing of the forms, I think the typing will fit with the moves, and combination of the two fused Pokemon's secondary types. Reshiram form will be Ice/Fire. And Zekrom form will be Ice/Electric. I'm thinking Ice will be the primary type since it's already confirmed that these are alternate forms of Kyurem; not alternate forms of Reshiram and Zekrom. (Ice/Fire = 4x Rock weakness = lose half HP to Stealth Rock. >_<)

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~
February 26th, 2012, 08:53 AM
How many formes do you expect kyurem to get?
Three, it's original one, and the two that have been revealed to us yesterday

How do you think it'll look?
They look cool in my opinion

How do you think it'll transform?
A certain item

How do you think it gets Burn freeze and shock freeze?
Probably by leveling up (probably getting it in the 80's)


:t354:TG

Tropical Sunlight
February 26th, 2012, 10:45 AM
I have a hypothesis.
Reshiram and Zekrom's signature moves are Fusion Flare and Fusion Bolt (Cross in Japanese).
What if... those moves have something to do with fusing/crossing Reshiram/Zekrom with Kyurem?

Oryx
February 26th, 2012, 10:47 AM
I have a hypothesis.
Reshiram and Zekrom's signature moves are Fusion Flare and Fusion Bolt (Cross in Japanese).
What if... those moves have something to do with fusing/crossing Reshiram/Zekrom with Kyurem?

That's actually a really cool theory. Like there's a move tutor that can teach you these moves, and if you know them then when you use it you transform into the other Kyurem! Except that would be kind of annoying if you don't like the move but you want to use the appropriate form of Kyurem. xD

Beloved
February 26th, 2012, 10:49 AM
Seeing as they White and Black Kyurems are fusions, what type will they be? Dragon must be one, so what will be the other, since I highly doubt they will have a 3-type pokemon.

Freezer
February 26th, 2012, 10:51 AM
Seeing as they White and Black Kyurems are fusions, what type will they be? Dragon must be one, so what will be the other, since I highly doubt they will have a 3-type pokemon.
Dragon/Fire for Reshikyurem and Dragon/Electic Zekyurem?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 26th, 2012, 10:59 AM
I have a hypothesis.
Reshiram and Zekrom's signature moves are Fusion Flare and Fusion Bolt (Cross in Japanese).
What if... those moves have something to do with fusing/crossing Reshiram/Zekrom with Kyurem?

I had the same idea yesterday when I was looking at the Tao trio's moveset in Bulbapedia. Also interestingly enough those moves power are increased when in the presence of the other mascot dragon. When ever I used that move I wondered what would happen if used around Kyurem (in story)...so maybe you're right, that would make a whole lot or sense.

Blue
February 26th, 2012, 01:00 PM
It's definitely going to be different, the fact that there's two and the names are so unique.. it's all different to the usual third game concept.

Boarbeque
February 26th, 2012, 01:34 PM
http://pokebeach.com/news/0212/pokemon-black-white-2.gif

Notice how on Black Kyurem only the right side is iced over, where as on White Kyurem only the left is. This may be a pretty lame observation, but it pretty much hints that there will be a "4th" kyurem form.

Broken Kyurem
White Kyurem
Black Kyurem
Restored Kyurem

Kaori
February 26th, 2012, 02:26 PM
Um, so...basically... ...What.

ANYWAY merging with the Alternate Kyurem forme thread.

pkmnmaster69
February 26th, 2012, 02:31 PM
I wonder how strong both forms would be since its Reshiram/Zekrom fusing Kyurem. I mean logic will tell you two legendarys fusing together would create an overpowered pokemon, even by uber standards and hell it could even surpass Arceus in terms of overall base stats.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 26th, 2012, 02:36 PM
Maybe the ice on it's body signifies that it's still not complete (aka it needs to lose all it's ice). That gives me the impresion that for Kyurem to be fully complete it will need to abandon it's ice typing for it's complete form if it has one. Maybe the hand that is unfrozen is suppose to be where the frozen hand is or maybe it's the reverse.
Kyurem's other forme's could possibly have same typing as Zekrom and Reshiram then if it needs to lose the ice (plus corocoro mentioned "Kyurem losing it's ice" and the "secret of it's ice" before)

bwburke94
February 26th, 2012, 02:44 PM
Anyway, to clarify...

The new Kyurem formes are NOT in the B/W data, and thus can NOT be used in battles against B/W players. While there is alternate forme data for Kyurem, it is simply filler data similar to what Rotom, Giratina, and Shaymin had in D/P. No base stats or anything.

However, a traded Kyurem with one of those two moves will indeed keep it after the trade.

This may also mean that a Kyurem in its alternate formes cannot be traded, which could cause problems with trading alt-formes to remakes. Anyone remember the "Origin Forme Giratina in HG/SS" problem?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
February 26th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Anyway, to clarify...

The new Kyurem formes are NOT in the B/W data, and thus can NOT be used in battles against B/W players. While there is alternate forme data for Kyurem, it is simply filler data similar to what Rotom, Giratina, and Shaymin had in D/P. No base stats or anything.

However, a traded Kyurem with one of those two moves will indeed keep it after the trade.

This may also mean that a Kyurem in its alternate formes cannot be traded, which could cause problems with trading alt-formes to remakes. Anyone remember the "Origin Forme Giratina in HG/SS" problem?
Yes, you had to pick Giratina in the event just to get the orb...
This would be complicated...but maybe they do as they did with Shaymin and make it so that you need Kyurem and one of the other dragons and then use the God Orb in your bag to fuse them (not just for the remakes but for B2W2 too)

I'm also wondering what they're stat's will be...will they be on par with Arceus' like I predicted earlier?

AvatarMew
February 27th, 2012, 11:56 AM
120/130/100/160/120/100?

120/160/120/130/100/100?

If they had 3 types...How would it affect the metagame?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 10th, 2012, 09:02 PM
I've been thinking...maybe the four kids dancing in Icirus will have something to do with Kyurem's form changes. In their song they mention two dragons twisting and mixing, and breaking and splitting...I thought it meant Reshiram and Zekrom but maybe it doesn't...plus Icirus is a town with an ice gym leader (Kyurem's typing) and leads to Dragon spiral Tower. The use of their song could be like the use of the Meteor's for Deoxys.

Forever
March 10th, 2012, 10:11 PM
120/130/100/160/120/100?

120/160/120/130/100/100?

If they had 3 types...How would it affect the metagame?

I don't really know, tbh. They'd be immediately in ubers for sure, or maybe just even banned in general. Dunno if even Arceus would be able to take on a triple typed Kyurem. :x

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 11th, 2012, 09:55 AM
If Kyurem's alternate forms are triple type what weaknesses would it even have?

wombateiro
March 12th, 2012, 11:12 AM
If Kyurem's alternate forms are triple type what weaknesses would it even have?

It would be like this:
Black Kyurem: dragon/ice/electric
2x damage to dragon, fighting, rock, ground
0,5x damage to water, grass, flying, steel
0,25x damage to electric

White Kyurem: dragon/ice/fire
4x damage to rock
2x damage to dragon, fighting, ground
0,5x damage to electric, ice, bug, steel
0,25x damage to fire, grass

That would be awesome to have triple type legendaries. It's possible because it's really hard to choose one of three types to be omitted - dragon typing is their main typing, ice typing is their part of Kyurem and electric/fire typing is their part of Zekrom/Reshiram, so I really can't choose which typing should be omitted. And if there would be final Kyurem form it should be dragon/electric/fire because Kyurem would fuse with both Zekrom and Reshiram and lose its ice completely.

Forever
March 12th, 2012, 09:35 PM
It would be like this:
Black Kyurem: dragon/ice/electric
2x damage to dragon, fighting, rock, ground
0,5x damage to water, grass, flying, steel
0,25x damage to electric

White Kyurem: dragon/ice/fire
4x damage to rock
2x damage to dragon, fighting, ground
0,5x damage to electric, ice, bug, steel
0,25x damage to fire, grass

That would be awesome to have triple type legendaries. It's possible because it's really hard to choose one of three types to be omitted - dragon typing is their main typing, ice typing is their part of Kyurem and electric/fire typing is their part of Zekrom/Reshiram, so I really can't choose which typing should be omitted. And if there would be final Kyurem form it should be dragon/electric/fire because Kyurem would fuse with both Zekrom and Reshiram and lose its ice completely.

So pretty much black Kyurem has the best advantage here, if that were to happen. Not only due to larger SR weakness, but the fact that... Black Kyurem just looks better lool. :x

I'd say dragon will go away if anything, since ice will most likely be concentrated on.

wombateiro
March 12th, 2012, 10:33 PM
I'd say dragon will go away if anything, since ice will most likely be concentrated on.

But they are legendary dragons, it would be really weird for dragon typing to go away. It would be something like water/fire/grass starters losing their water/fire/grass typing after evolving, that doesn't even sound right.
If Game Freak doesn't want to create triple type Pokemon, the only typings for Black Kyurem and White Kyurem that would make sense to be omitted are electric/fire, because Ice Burn and Freeze Shock are ice type attacks, so fire/electric are not necessary. But refusing to create triple type Pokemon makes it doubtful if triple Kyurem's fusion with both Zekrom and Reshiram would be ever made unless it would be still dragon/ice, but that would be boring.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 13th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Well Kyurem is losing his ice so maybe the Ice typing will be the type omitted (in the box art they show with lightning (Black2) and with flames (White 2), maybe the ice moves are all it has left from when it was an ice type...
Though I think that dragon might be omitted, it won't be the first time a first typing has been lost (Swablu lost it's part normal when evolving into Dragon/Flying rather than Normal/Dragon)...also there are dragon like pokemon who aren't even dragon type...

Forever
March 14th, 2012, 01:11 AM
But it's found in an ice cave, a deep freeze thing, while as for dragon, doesn't really seem like a dragon-like location. :x If it were to lose ice that'd just make Kyurem another Reshiram/Zekrom. :(

Besides I'm sure there are other Pokemon that look like dragons but aren't. :x

wombateiro
March 14th, 2012, 08:42 AM
Though I think that dragon might be omitted, it won't be the first time a first typing has been lost (Swablu lost it's part normal when evolving into Dragon/Flying rather than Normal/Dragon)...also there are dragon like pokemon who aren't even dragon type...

I know it's not first time but imo in Swablu's case replacing normal type into dragon was big improvement. Contrary to that I think losing dragon typing for Black Kyurem and White Kyurem would be big letdown. Two legendary dragons fusing into no-dragon? I'm not saying it's impossible but imo that would make Black Kyurem and White Kyurem look like bastard children lol.

shivamwazhere
March 14th, 2012, 05:46 PM
What if its still ice/dragon but its ability is that it gains boost from fire/electric moves???
I think that that would be best

Xander Olivieri
March 14th, 2012, 05:55 PM
What if its still ice/dragon but its ability is that it gains boost from fire/electric moves???
I think that that would be best

Only a few moves exist that do that. Flash Fire and Motor Drive/Lightning Rod, though they just don't fit. Maybe it will get some twisted version of Terravolt and Turboblaze. Doubt it though...I can see them keeping Pressure as his ability.

voicerocker
March 14th, 2012, 09:42 PM
Here's my take on Kyurem's formes.

Type will probably be Ice/Dragon (it's a dragon, and Freeze Shock and Ice Burn are Ice-type moves). But, depending on the forme/game you get, it might get a hold item to boost Fire or Electric attack, like the orb that gives you Origin Forme Giratina in Platinum. Also, no third type. That would greatly change how type match-ups currently are and would most likely make them incredibly difficult to work with.

I don't expect Kyurem's formes to be triggered by items like Giratina, but rather they stay in the forme you catch them in without an item. That would explain them being originally described as "2 separate Pokemon".

Also, to me, Kyurem looks more complete in its other formes. You'll notice it's tail no longer looks like it's missing an energy source in those formes. Also, since these formes are the cover Pokemon for the games, that should tell you there won't be a third "complete" forme. It was never confirmed that Kyurem is the leftover corpse of the "Original Dragon" or not, that is just a theory. If there really was an "Original Dragon", we would probably have gotten Pokemon Gray instead of B/W 2.

wombateiro
March 14th, 2012, 10:38 PM
What if its still ice/dragon but its ability is that it gains boost from fire/electric moves???
I think that that would be best

That would be truly best. Kyurem's Pressure ability can simply go away, it's not important enough to be kept. I always thought Kyurem's Pressure is like leftover compared to other two dragons' Turboblaze and Teravolt.

ShadowX35
March 15th, 2012, 03:42 PM
thats awsome, but wouldn't kyreum look more ugly if there was another forme?

I'm not sure on the ugliness case, but i do know that it would look "complete" even these new formes still look a little incomplete to me

voicerocker
March 15th, 2012, 04:25 PM
I'm not sure on the ugliness case, but i do know that it would look "complete" even these new formes still look a little incomplete to me

Actually, if you compare them to Kyurem's standard forme, they DO look more complete. Its "damaged" parts are restored in its new formes, even though they look like parts of Reshiram and Zekrom.

Also, if it did have a "complete" forme, that would call for it to become more powerful. Pokemon formes don't make a Pokemon stronger, they only alter their stats. A "complete" forme would increase all stats, meaning that there would be no reason for Black Kyurem and White Kyurem in the first place.

rocky505
March 15th, 2012, 06:03 PM
Anyone think GF got the idea of the Kyurem formes from DBZ. In the movie trailer it shows Kyurem just absorbing their energy. It's like they slapped Cell and Super Buu together. Cell could absorb energy and Super Buu gained the looks and moves of some of the Z Fighters he absorbed.

voicerocker
March 15th, 2012, 06:28 PM
Anyone think GF got the idea of the Kyurem formes from DBZ. In the movie trailer it shows Kyurem just absorbing their energy. It's like they slapped Cell and Super Buu together. Cell could absorb energy and Super Buu gained the looks and moves of some of the Z Fighters he absorbed.

No. This type of absorption is completely different from Cell or Buu. Cell absorbed entire human beings, and so did Buu, just in a different way. (Buu sometimes ATE people!)

Reshiram and Zekrom are supposed to represent Yin and Yang, while Kyurem represents neither. (Can't remember the term.) Considering that, and Kyurem's original design, it makes sense that it would be able to take on power from the other 2 to make up for the lack of possessing neither Yin nor Yang.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 15th, 2012, 07:08 PM
Kyurem ate People and Pokemon in Bw...for energy (like cell? or for fun/food
like buu?)

I think the two forms represent Taiji which serve as the opposite to Kyurem's normal forme as Taiji represents both Yin and Yang combined (aka Kyurem combines both within it, able to switch to either, with Black Kyurem representing the path of light (yang, the black part represents light, male, ect.) while White Kyurem is the path of darkness (yin, the white part represents dark, female), so maybe the stones had something to do with it...

rocky505
March 15th, 2012, 07:17 PM
But the Cell/Buu thing is sort of similar though. And yes it was said Kyurem did eat people too lol. I'm not saying it for sure it is the way Kyurem transforms but it is similar kind of.

voicerocker
March 15th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Kyurem ate People and Pokemon in Bw...for energy (like cell? or for fun/food
like buu?)

I think the two forms represent Taiji which serve as the opposite to Kyurem's normal forme as Taiji represents both Yin and Yang combined (aka Kyurem combines both within it, able to switch to either, with Black Kyurem representing the path of light (yang, the black part represents light, male, ect.) while White Kyurem is the path of darkness (yin, the white part represents dark, female), so maybe the stones had something to do with it...

Ah, I remember that now. Yes, it is said that Kyurem use to eat people and Pokemon, however that might just be a legend. They also claim that Kyurem comes to that town at night, but in the game, it never leaves the Giant Chasm, so that isn't so. This is what makes Legendary Pokemon hard to figure out, as many have more than one story of origin. (Example, is Kyurem an alien Pokemon from space, or the corpse of the "Original Dragon"? No one really knows for sure.)

These formes are only borrowing power from the Pokemon, supposedly by borrowing their genes. It isn't eating them, or absorbing their bodies. Even if it did eat Pokemon and people in the past, it didn't change formes because of it.

Regardless, how it changes formes in the games is still unknown. Hopefully we'll know soon.

Xander Olivieri
March 15th, 2012, 10:21 PM
Did anyone notice that there was a slight change to the Form's looks when they revealed the box art?

Both Kyurems now have tubes going from their tails to their backs.

I wonder if those will be visible on the sprites.

Also the box art looks flipped, maybe the picture I'm looking at to compare them is wrong, but they seem to mirror one another.

wombateiro
March 16th, 2012, 11:13 AM
Those tubes on their backs probably work like veins - they could be transferring electric/fire "blood" from Kyurems' tails to their bodies. I think those tubes could appear when new Kyurems' ability is activated to boost their electric/fire attacks.

Oryx
March 16th, 2012, 11:20 AM
I would like an awesome cutscene when you first change Kyurem into that form, where the tubes appear in slow-mo and such. But only the first time cause that would get obnoxioussss.

voicerocker
March 16th, 2012, 12:19 PM
Correction! I just talked with every character in Lacunosa Town. No one specifically says that Kyurem "ate" people. The term used is "stole away" and comes from the grandmother that tells the story. I assume that has lead people to believe it had to have eaten them, but that is not specifically said.

The grandmother also says that nobody really believes that story anymore, but questions why they still follow the tradition of staying indoors at night.

Xander Olivieri
March 16th, 2012, 10:08 PM
Anyone think GF got the idea of the Kyurem formes from DBZ. In the movie trailer it shows Kyurem just absorbing their energy. It's like they slapped Cell and Super Buu together. Cell could absorb energy and Super Buu gained the looks and moves of some of the Z Fighters he absorbed.

Actually after I had time to think about it. Kyurem is now more like Rogue/Parasite from Marvel/DC Comics. Both had the power to leech/Steal the powers away from other creatures and could freely use them for their own purpose.

Kyurem taking Reshiram/Zekrom's powers would be interesting if they could do something with it.

Nearsighted king of Ice
March 17th, 2012, 02:53 AM
Well Kyurem's White form should get a move that's called something like "Flame Ice" or something like that, ya know Ice so cold it burns

voicerocker
March 17th, 2012, 06:13 AM
Actually after I had time to think about it. Kyurem is now more like Rogue/Parasite from Marvel/DC Comics. Both had the power to leech/Steal the powers away from other creatures and could freely use them for their own purpose.

Kyurem taking Reshiram/Zekrom's powers would be interesting if they could do something with it.

According to what people say the trailer implies, that seems to be the case. A leeching dragon is a pretty creative idea!

Well Kyurem's White form should get a move that's called something like "Flame Ice" or something like that, ya know Ice so cold it burns

Black and White had two hidden Ice-type moves in its data: Freeze Shock and Ice Burn. These moves are assumed to be saved for Kyurem's formes.

Xander Olivieri
March 20th, 2012, 09:48 PM
Well Pokejungle has made a small announcement

http://pokejungle.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Overdrive-Kyurem-300x188.png
Previously I commented that sites were prematurely using the word “overdrive” to describe these charged up modes and that there was no official source for it, but that has changed now with the Pokémon Daisuki Club’s page on Kyurem. As you can see in the picture (but possibly not read), it says “This is what the Overdrive body is!”. The captions read “Shining Blue ‘Black Kyurem’” and “Burning Red ‘White Kyurem’”. On a previous page it reported that these formes occur when Kyurem’s emotions are running high.

Fun little tidbit for the night Thanks Taylor for the tip about this!

<3 pokejungle

So the two forms are called "Over Drives"? Kinda makes me think they are going to do with Kyurem as they do with Darmanitan, where when its under a certain influence it will change mid battle. This is a little upsetting to me mostly because Darmanitan's Form Change is pretty weak and if its like that, I see considerable drop in potential in Kyurem.

JollyRoger25
March 20th, 2012, 10:40 PM
I think that there will be three new formes in the two games, in Black 2 is Zekrom + Kyurem and it will have Shock Freeze. While in White 2 there will be Reshiram + Kyurem and it will have Burn Freeze. But at the end of the story line in both games you'll get the "complete dragon", consisting of Reshiram + Zekrom + Kyurem, and will have awesome powers that are unmached by any of the five, I'm not sure what it's signature move will be though.

Forever
March 20th, 2012, 11:04 PM
Well Pokejungle has made a small announcement

So the two forms are called "Over Drives"? Kinda makes me think they are going to do with Kyurem as they do with Darmanitan, where when its under a certain influence it will change mid battle. This is a little upsetting to me mostly because Darmanitan's Form Change is pretty weak and if its like that, I see considerable drop in potential in Kyurem.

OR maybe it's like Colosseum. You know how they reach "fever pitch"? I dunno something to do with emotions being high. Sounds kinda different to Darmanitan, though. It'd be sorta interesting if Plasma controlled them and "changed" them (like with shadow Pokemon) and when they reach that level they go into that mode and suddenly are much more powerful. I can wish...

At least that way sounds a little less disappointing than Darmanitan's change.

voicerocker
March 21st, 2012, 09:34 AM
I think that there will be three new formes in the two games, in Black 2 is Zekrom + Kyurem and it will have Shock Freeze. While in White 2 there will be Reshiram + Kyurem and it will have Burn Freeze. But at the end of the story line in both games you'll get the "complete dragon", consisting of Reshiram + Zekrom + Kyurem, and will have awesome powers that are unmached by any of the five, I'm not sure what it's signature move will be though.

Do you mean by fusing? Because that has almost been proven to not be true.

A "Complete Dragon" is highly unlikely, and I personally think it isn't possible. If this were another forme of Kyurem, it would go against forme change standards and make this forme more powerful than the others. All forme changes are supposed to keep the formes equal in power, but just have different stats.

Also, it cannot be a new Pokemon because there is no data for any Pokemon after Genescet.

OR maybe it's like Colosseum. You know how they reach "fever pitch"? I dunno something to do with emotions being high. Sounds kinda different to Darmanitan, though. It'd be sorta interesting if Plasma controlled them and "changed" them (like with shadow Pokemon) and when they reach that level they go into that mode and suddenly are much more powerful. I can wish...

At least that way sounds a little less disappointing than Darmanitan's change.

Don't forget that Reshiram and Zekrom also had "overdrive" formes, which turned out to be only their sprite animation. This is probably the same case. I don't think that a forme change will be getting a forme change of its own. That would be a bit too much.

Xander Olivieri
March 21st, 2012, 11:54 AM
From what was said, the forms we already know about are called Overdrives. Not that there is another form for them called overdrives, but Black Kyurem and White Kyurem are Overdrives.

The way it is mentioned, considering the Shadow Pokemon thing is non canon to the main series games and the only other time they mention stuff like Emotion is in a select few abilities, it sounds like Kyurem CAN FREELY switch between one of the Forms and back. It seems to me it'll run the same way Darmanitan can switch between Active and Zen Modes.

Kyurem only being able to switch to the new Forms after taking so much damage or something. Damage being the main one. It could also be while its at full health its in these forms and when it takes 50% or more damage it reverts back to normal Kyurem.

PKMNDex
March 21st, 2012, 03:02 PM
I honestly have no idea on what's to come.

wombateiro
March 23rd, 2012, 10:33 AM
I've got idea how they might fuse... I think Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare are called Fusions for some reason. My idea is that in B2/W2 when Zekrom/Reshiram will hit Kyurem with their Fusion moves, Kyurem's form will change and Zekrom/Reshiram will faint due to their energy absorption by Kyurem. After that there'll be chance to catch freshly created Black/White Kyurem. After player orders Zekrom/Reshiram to use Fusion move, there might be cutscene showing Kyurem being hit by Fusion move and changing form. After cutscene battle would continue with changed Kyurem's form.

You may ask why it's impossible in B/W... I think God Stone will give Kyurem power to do that absorption. Simply saying Kyurem should already hold God Stone during every encounter in B2/W2 to be able to change form. I think there should be some new move for Kyurem that allows to back to previous form and change again into new form holding the same God Stone that was used during first form change.

Isn't that idea clever? lol

Xander Olivieri
March 23rd, 2012, 12:19 PM
I've got idea how they might fuse... I think Fusion Bolt and Fusion Flare are called Fusions for some reason. My idea is that in B2/W2 when Zekrom/Reshiram will hit Kyurem with their Fusion moves, Kyurem's form will change and Zekrom/Reshiram will faint due to their energy absorption by Kyurem. After that there'll be chance to catch freshly created Black/White Kyurem. After player orders Zekrom/Reshiram to use Fusion move, there might be cutscene showing Kyurem being hit by Fusion move and changing form. After cutscene battle would continue with changed Kyurem's form.

You may ask why it's impossible in B/W... I think God Stone will give Kyurem power to do that absorption. Simply saying Kyurem should already hold God Stone during every encounter in B2/W2 to be able to change form. I think there should be some new move for Kyurem that allows to back to previous form and change again into new form holding the same God Stone that was used during first form change.

Isn't that idea clever? lol

Well since Kyurem can freely change between the two forms without an item and it says in the Daisuke Quote that it changes when it's emotions run high, that isn't likely to happen.

As for the name of the attacks they are "Fusion" because like the Oath attacks, the two attacks can "Fuse" in a sense. If one is used before the other, the Second attack grows in power and changes animation. Their original name is "Cross".

Movie should shed more light on the form changes if April's Coro Coro or this week's Pokemon Smash doesn't give us any insight.

wombateiro
March 23rd, 2012, 12:55 PM
Well since Kyurem can freely change between the two forms without an item and it says in the Daisuke Quote that it changes when it's emotions run high, that isn't likely to happen.

It says about changing into Overdrive mode, not about changing from normal Kyurem into Black/White Kyurem. Those are two different things. Overdrive would be probably activated when HP is lowered, that's probably when it's emotions run high.

Xander Olivieri
March 23rd, 2012, 12:59 PM
It says about changing into Overdrive mode, not about changing from normal Kyurem into Black/White Kyurem. Those are two different things. Overdrive would be probably activated when HP is lowered, that's probably when it's emotions run high.

The Overdrives are the official names for Black and White Kyurems. They are like how Reshiram and Zekrom have the glowing tail bit which was mistaken as their Overdrive forms.

wombateiro
March 23rd, 2012, 01:13 PM
The Overdrives are the official names for Black and White Kyurems. They are like how Reshiram and Zekrom have the glowing tail bit which was mistaken as their Overdrive forms.

Overdrive is ALTERNATE status. It's different state than regular Black/White Kyurem and totally different thing than fusing but you must confuse things as usual.

http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=8307

Xander Olivieri
March 23rd, 2012, 01:20 PM
Overdrive is ALTERNATE status. It's different state than regular Black/White Kyurem.

http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=8307

And the quote Pokejungle made says:
On a previous page it reported that these formes occur when Kyurem’s emotions are running high.

It specifically says Kyurem. The new colorful versions of Black Kyurem and White Kyurem have the same alternate coloring of Zekrom and Reshiram who at their time of release were said to have Overdrive forms as well which turned out just to be part of the cinematic loop for the sprite. The "Overdrive" colored versions are the box art mascot and Pokemon hasn't given an alternate form an alternate form.

We should find out what's up tomorrow on Pokemon Smash hopefully.

wombateiro
March 23rd, 2012, 01:45 PM
It specifically says Kyurem. The new colorful versions of Black Kyurem and White Kyurem have the same alternate coloring of Zekrom and Reshiram who at their time of release were said to have Overdrive forms as well which turned out just to be part of the cinematic loop for the sprite. The "Overdrive" colored versions are the box art mascot and Pokemon hasn't given an alternate form an alternate form.

We should find out what's up tomorrow on Pokemon Smash hopefully.

Lol, how can you imagine tubes coming out and hiding in the sprite loop? That would look ridiculous. More of that they don't have those tubes in movie trailer, so it's clear that this time it's real Overdrive mode, not just sprite animation.

“We now know that when their emotions are worked up, Black Kyurem and White Kyurem become Overdrive status!”

Xander Olivieri
March 23rd, 2012, 02:02 PM
Lol, how can you imagine tubes coming out and hiding in the sprite loop? That would look ridiculous. More of that they don't have those tubes in movie trailer, so it's clear that this time it's real Overdrive mode, not just sprite animation.

We haven't seen enough shots of it in its forms to say for certain. It could very well have the tubes in parts of scenes that were not shown to us. It is exactly the same as with Reshiram/Zekrom's Overdrive speculation. If Black Kyurem and White Kyurem are supposed to take from them, they why would it be different?

and again, that very site has a discussion that conflicts with the news.

The author of the article leave his speculation in a post:
Unlike Reshiram and Zekrom’s overdrive mode in BW where they were nothing more than for aesthetic purposes, I think the overdrive mode for Black Kyurem and White Kyurem will be more important.

I think it might be an ability much like Darumaka’s Zen mode? Perhaps increase their attack once their HP is low. Who knows. Hopefully more information about these two will be revealed in the next Corocoro.

It could be, it couldn't be. We'll find out tomorrow or next month.

On a previous page it reported that these formes occur when Kyurem’s emotions are running high.
Again Pokejungle's Translation of the page says Kyurem. If it were new forms for Black/White Kyurem it would translate into Black/White Kyurem for him as well. Conflicting sources makes the news on specifics moot. We don't have any actual info on it, but as already said, Pokemon has never given an Alternate Form an Alternate Form.

With present information its most likely just more aesthetic visual effects.

We do get dynamic music when Pokemon's health gets low, and there is one Pokemon who changes form due to an ability. If Kyurem doesn't form change due to an ability, then when its Health drops, it may change its image into the Overdrive modes.

wombateiro
March 23rd, 2012, 02:17 PM
We do get dynamic music when Pokemon's health gets low, and there is one Pokemon who changes form due to an ability. If Kyurem doesn't form change due to an ability, then when its Health drops, it may change its image into the Overdrive modes.

As I posted before I think Overdrive will be activated when HP is lowered.
Normal Kyurem changing into Black/White Kyurem should be something solid, not only in-battle effect like Overdrive mode.

Xander Olivieri
March 23rd, 2012, 02:29 PM
As I posted before I think Overdrive will be activated when HP is lowered.
Normal Kyurem changing into Black/White Kyurem should be something solid, not only in-battle effect like Overdrive mode.

Seeing as it only seemed to switch into Black Kyurem and White Kyurem while it was fighting, It could be battle forms only. Its only shown in its forms when enraged and attacking something, namely Ash and Co. or the Muskedeers.

wombateiro
March 23rd, 2012, 03:06 PM
Kyurem is enraged all the time in those trailers, not only after switching forms. If Kyurem would be really able to freely switch to Black or White form when it wants, why there are two different sequels to B/W? It seems that in Black 2 Kyurem will be able to switch only to Black Kyurem after fusion with Zekrom's energy and in White 2 only to White Kyurem after fusion with Reshiram's energy. And it's almost certain that those form changes WON'T be only in-battle because they are MASCOTS and mascots are never only in-battle forms.

Xander Olivieri
March 23rd, 2012, 03:28 PM
Kyurem is enraged all the time in those trailers, not only after switching forms. If Kyurem would be really able to freely switch to Black or White form when it wants, why there are two different sequels to B/W? It seems that in Black 2 Kyurem will be able to switch only to Black Kyurem after fusion with Zekrom's energy and in White 2 only to White Kyurem after fusion with Reshiram's energy. And it's almost certain that those form changes WON'T be only in-battle because they are MASCOTS and mascots are never only in-battle forms.

The only other Mascot that could switch forms was also limited to one of its forms until it had a Held Item or had to be in a specific world. All Form Changes except for 1 or 2 is tied to requiring an item for it to be permanent.

Seeing as in the movie Kyurem can freely switch between them, I doubt an item is required. There can be an item like Rotom's or Shaymin's or a hold item like Giratina's, but based solely on what has been said and shown, Kyurem can freely switch. Again, Movie said Kyurem already has their powers. It got them at its birth.

Kyurem seems fairly calm at times in its normal form it even speaks calmly to the trainers in one part of the trailer. Just because its chasing/attacking doesn't mean its enraged. Then it is shown howling and rage blasting them in its White and Black forms.

As for two different Sequels? Because they wanted to change things up. Kyurem getting two forms is more because we got two Sequels rather we got two sequels because Kyurem got two forms. Kyurem didn't even have to be the mascot if they didn't want it to be, we could have had a completely different game.

All the info will be shown on April 15th anyway. We'll know what plans Gamefreak have then, Item, Ability, or inbred effect.

wombateiro
March 24th, 2012, 12:28 AM
As for two different Sequels? Because they wanted to change things up. Kyurem getting two forms is more because we got two Sequels rather we got two sequels because Kyurem got two forms. Kyurem didn't even have to be the mascot if they didn't want it to be, we could have had a completely different game.

There are two sequels because there are two forms. It's indicating that one form will be exclusive for one sequel. It leads to conclusion that Kyurem can't change freely between forms because it would disturb each form exclusiveness in the B2 or W2. I think in B2/W2 N's Zekrom/Reshiram will return to Unova and somehow will get involved into Kyurem's form change by having energy absorbed by Kyurem.


Seeing as in the movie Kyurem can freely switch between them, I doubt an item is required. There can be an item like Rotom's or Shaymin's or a hold item like Giratina's, but based solely on what has been said and shown, Kyurem can freely switch. Again, Movie said Kyurem already has their powers. It got them at its birth.

Trailer doesn't show how Kyurem is changing forms. There is no sight in trailer it can change forms freely, I would say it's even negated because on that first trailer's picture it looks like Kyurem is absorbing energy from one dragon at one time. I think the same absorption will happen in B2 and W2 storylines, proving that Kyurem can't change form freely and it needs Zekrom's or Reshiram's energy to do that.


In the first shot, we see energy from Reshiram and Zekrom being absorbed by Kyurem. According to the biography section on the website, Kyurem, with Reshiram and Zekrom's genes, becomes Black Kyurem or White Kyurem (thanks goes to Tensho from our forums for the translation).

Kyurem: The strongest Dragon-type Pokemon, its power is on par with Reshiram and Zekrom. Carrying the strongest heredity, it was born at the same time as Zekrom and Reshiram. It can change into Black and White Kyurem. Extreme cold radiates from its body.

It doesn't say Kyurem got their powers at birth. It only says that Kyurem is carrying the strongest heredity which probably means it can switch form but only after absorbing genes from Zekrom or Reshiram or their items or attacks, not freely.

voicerocker
March 24th, 2012, 07:01 AM
We can't really compare the Kyurem from the games with the Kyurem from the movie. The anime doesn't always follow the same rules as the games. Just look at how Deoxys changes formes in both of them. In the anime, Deoxys can change freely, while in the games, it originally depended on the game it was on. Now, you need to interact with meteorites to change its forme. Just because Kyurem appears to be able to change formes at will in the movie, doesn't mean the same will happen in the game.

Also, I don't think that we got 2 games because there were 2 formes, nor do I think that we got 2 formes because we there were 2 games. I believe Game Freak planned this all along, introducing 2 new formes for a Pokemon in 2 sequels. 1 isn't a result of the other.

As for the name of the attacks they are "Fusion" because like the Oath attacks, the two attacks can "Fuse" in a sense. If one is used before the other, the Second attack grows in power and changes animation. Their original name is "Cross".

I was wondering if someone was going to point this out! I couldn't remember what the original names were, but I knew they weren't "Fusion".

Lol, how can you imagine tubes coming out and hiding in the sprite loop? That would look ridiculous. More of that they don't have those tubes in movie trailer, so it's clear that this time it's real Overdrive mode, not just sprite animation.

I don't think that would look so ridiculous. Darumaka's animation shows it pulling its arms and legs back into its body and appear to fall asleep for a second. Look close at the original pictures of the "overdrives". Other than the tubes and glowing, what is different? Nothing else. They are still bascially Black Kyurem and White Kyurem, not a new forme. Here's both pictures:
http://pokejungle.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Overdrive-Kyurem-300x188.png

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/056/7/1/new_pokemon_black_and_white_2_by_zekrom622-d4qyz7b.png

See? Same formes, even pretty much the same art, just upgraded a bit. We can't compare this to the Shadow Pokemon because they didn't physically change and the "high pitch" of emotion was triggered randomly. Also, Darmanitan's Zen Mode is also a forme change, so we can't compare that either. Zen Mode is triggered through loss of HP, not emotional stress, and actually looks physically weaker. But these "overdrives" look very powerful, so it wouldn't make sense for a Pokemon to appear its most powerful when it is close to defeat. Emotion isn't a stat, and one could also say that simply being in a Pokemon battle is enough to trigger intense emotions in a Pokemon. (see Reshiram's and Zekrom's overdrives)

I still say that this will probably just be part of the sprite animation. Until further info comes out, this makes the most sense.

It seems that in Black 2 Kyurem will be able to switch only to Black Kyurem after fusion with Zekrom's energy and in White 2 only to White Kyurem after fusion with Reshiram's energy. And it's almost certain that those form changes WON'T be only in-battle because they are MASCOTS and mascots are never only in-battle forms.

I agree with you. It would make little sense to have 2 different formes of the same Pokemon as the mascots of the games if both formes are available in each game. I think the formes will be version exclusive, or at least the method of obtaining the formes will be.

Seeing as in the movie Kyurem can freely switch between them, I doubt an item is required. There can be an item like Rotom's or Shaymin's or a hold item like Giratina's, but based solely on what has been said and shown, Kyurem can freely switch. Again, Movie said Kyurem already has their powers. It got them at its birth.

Again, we can't always compare the anime to the game. Personally, I feel like the formes will simply be unable to be changed once you obtain Black/White Kyurem since they are supposed to be "separate Pokemon". (However, Shaymin used the Gracidea Flower in both the anime and game, so an item might be possible.)

But I have to disagree with the "had the powers at birth" thing, in a way. Kyurem are supposed to be able to absorb the powers/genes of the other dragons, so in theory, it could have possessed this ability since its birth. But I don't think that means it was born with the other dragons' powers already available to it without needing to absorb them. I guess what I'm saying is that Kyurem isn't born with Reshiram's and Zekrom's powers, but it's born with the ability to absorb their energy. (same difference, maybe?)

wombateiro
March 24th, 2012, 09:02 AM
I don't think that would look so ridiculous. Darumaka's animation shows it pulling its arms and legs back into its body and appear to fall asleep for a second. Look close at the original pictures of the "overdrives". Other than the tubes and glowing, what is different? Nothing else. They are still bascially Black Kyurem and White Kyurem, not a new forme. Here's both pictures:
http://pokejungle.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Overdrive-Kyurem-300x188.png

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/056/7/1/new_pokemon_black_and_white_2_by_zekrom622-d4qyz7b.png

See? Same formes, even pretty much the same art, just upgraded a bit. We can't compare this to the Shadow Pokemon because they didn't physically change and the "high pitch" of emotion was triggered randomly. Also, Darmanitan's Zen Mode is also a forme change, so we can't compare that either. Zen Mode is triggered through loss of HP, not emotional stress, and actually looks physically weaker. But these "overdrives" look very powerful, so it wouldn't make sense for a Pokemon to appear its most powerful when it is close to defeat. Emotion isn't a stat, and one could also say that simply being in a Pokemon battle is enough to trigger intense emotions in a Pokemon. (see Reshiram's and Zekrom's overdrives)

I still say that this will probably just be part of the sprite animation. Until further info comes out, this makes the most sense.

I meant that having those tubes coming out and hiding all the time in battle would be ridiculous and annoying. If Overdrive mode is again only animation I think it would be the best if those tubes would be triggered in one intro animation after sending Black/White Kyurem to battle and later there should be just glowing.

voicerocker
March 24th, 2012, 10:45 AM
I meant that having those tubes coming out and hiding all the time in battle would be ridiculous and annoying. If Overdrive mode is again only animation I think it would be the best if those tubes would be triggered in one intro animation after sending Black/White Kyurem to battle and later there should be just glowing.

All of the Pokemon have 1 animation that loops throughout every battle. I don't think they are going to make 2 sets of animations just because of few people don't think the tubes should be seen the whole time.

But the tubes probably represent the fact that Kyurem is feeding off of another Pokemon's energy to make itself more powerful. (The tubes come from the tails and connect to its back, and since the tail is considered the source of power, having the tubes connect throughout the battle shows that Kyurem isn't obtaining its "overdrive" on its own, like Reshiram and Zekrom can.)

wombateiro
March 24th, 2012, 11:16 AM
All of the Pokemon have 1 animation that loops throughout every battle. I don't think they are going to make 2 sets of animations just because of few people don't think the tubes should be seen the whole time.

Read carefully, please. It's not the problem of seeing tubes all the time but the problem of having them disappearing and appearing all the time. That would be weird for those tubes to be constantly doing that.

Those intro animations would be another feature missing in B/W, probably removed to be re-added in B2/W2. If Zekrom's and Reshiram's Overdrives made use of animated sprites, Black and White Kyurems' Overdrives could made use of intro animations by growing tubes from body during intro animation and keeping them visible for the rest of the time.

voicerocker
March 24th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Read carefully, please. It's not the problem of seeing tubes all the time but the problem of having them disappearing and appearing all the time. That would be weird for those tubes to be constantly doing that.

Those intro animations would be another feature missing in B/W, probably removed to be re-added in B2/W2. If Zekrom's and Reshiram's Overdrives made use of animated sprites, Black and White Kyurems' Overdrives could made use of intro animations by growing tubes from body during intro animation and keeping them visible for the rest of the time.

I knew what you meant, but that would still upset the animation loop. You're assuming that the tubes appearing and disappearing will be annoying when we haven't even seen it yet.

I don't understand your concept of "missing features". I see little purpose for an initial animation other than to take up space for programming that could be used for other purposes. Chances are they will do the exact same thing as Reshiram and Zekrom. When you send out Black/White Kyurem, it will probably appear at first in its normal form, then as the animation progresses, the tubes will come from its tail and connect to its back, triggering the overdrive for a few seconds before reverting back to normal...just like Reshiram and Zekrom. It probably won't seem so annoying to you once we are able to see it, if it actually happens that way.

649
March 29th, 2012, 11:00 AM
Guys heres an alternate (and slightly implausible) take.

What if the new forms don't arise from kyurem, but from reshiram and zekrom instead?

Think of it as Kyurem taking over the r@ms' bodies, and using that body to become more powerful. Also, it'd get the new moves this way, while using the r@ms' movesets.

I know it probably won't happen but it's an interesting idea.

Xander Olivieri
March 29th, 2012, 11:44 AM
Guys heres an alternate (and slightly implausible) take.

What if the new forms don't arise from kyurem, but from reshiram and zekrom instead?

Think of it as Kyurem taking over the r@ms' bodies, and using that body to become more powerful. Also, it'd get the new moves this way, while using the r@ms' movesets.

I know it probably won't happen but it's an interesting idea.

Movie already shows that Kyurem is the one that does the switching, Reshiram and Zekrom aren't needed to physically be there. Movies tend to hint how the legend's Form changes work (Shaymin switching when its near a Gracidea and Giratina switching between worlds) Game wise we get an additional method (Giratina gets the Griseous Orb which is from the Distortion world).

Kyurem is either going to be able to flip or have an outside item like how Deoxys needs the Meteorites. (Although before the Meteorites came to be Deoxys could only switch when traded to a different Game, Normal in R/S, Attack in Fire Red, Defense Leaf Green, and Speed Emerald.)

Since Kyurem's forms are similar to Deoxys so far, its most likely a free switch while in the respective game, if they don't bring forth an item in April.

Anako
March 29th, 2012, 12:00 PM
Current form of Kyurem is based on Wuji – the state state of harmony and balance. It is limitless and infinite. That’s why I think N’s and Ghetsis’ last name is Harmonia, because it relates to harmony of Wuji and Kyurem.


Chinese wuji 無極 "limitless; infinite" is a compound of wu 無 "without; no; not have; there is not; nothing, nothingness"

There is no harmony in Wuji since it's a void of nothingess; It's literally nothing. Wuji stays at dormancy (meaning at rest; which may explain why Kyurem is waiting at the cave and hasn't been active until possibly Reshiram and Zekrom became active. This may also explain B2/W2's formes) until it becomes Yin and Yang; then it becomes balanced and harmonious.

You can take Kyurem's typing for example; It's Ice type. Coldness often corresponds to voidness and nothingness in symbolism. You can see this symbolism in many movies. Specifically, there's a Independent movie on YouTube (called "The Big Empty") that uses this idea (in a strange way but philosophical way).

wombateiro
March 29th, 2012, 01:26 PM
There is no harmony in Wuji since it's a void of nothingess; It's literally nothing. Wuji stays at dormancy (meaning at rest; which may explain why Kyurem is waiting at the cave and hasn't been active until possibly Reshiram and Zekrom became active. This may also explain B2/W2's formes) until it becomes Yin and Yang; then it becomes balanced and harmonious.

You can take Kyurem's typing for example; It's Ice type. Coldness often corresponds to voidness and nothingness in symbolism. You can see this symbolism in many movies. Specifically, there's a Independent movie on YouTube (called "The Big Empty") that uses this idea (in a strange way but philosophical way).

You're not exactly right.

In Taoism and Chinese culture, the term wuji (pronounced "woo-zhee") means a state of harmony and balance -- emptiness, stillness and peace. It is limitless, infinite. It is when everything begins moving and you lose balance that you also lose wuji. In the Taoist view of the universe, if we were to look at it from a modern scientific view, the universe was in a state of wuji just before the Big Bang. There was a state of perfect peace and then all hell broke loose. Things separated into yin and yang.

In Taoism perfect harmony exists only when there is nothing. That "nothing" is the concept of original wuji Kyurem. We know that wuji Kyurem separated into Zekrom and Reshiram which is exactly the same like wuji separated into yin and yang.


In Tai Chi, the goal is to maintain a sort of wuji -- balance and harmony; to remain centered. When someone attacks, and you must adapt and change to accept this person's force, your goal is to return to wuji -- the state of balance you were in before the attack.

I think that new Kyurem forms are based on Tai Chi because they are mixes of wuji and yin or yang. They have power of yin (Zekrom) or yang (Reshiram) but remain balanced because of partially being wuji (original Kyurem).

I posted long time ago that I thought new Kyurem form will be based on Tai Chi. It looks like I was right about that but my mistake was that I thought there will be only one new form.

Quotes are from this page: http://internalarts.typepad.com/ken_gullettes_internal_ma/2010/04/wuji-an-important-principle-of-tai-chi.html

voicerocker
March 30th, 2012, 07:04 AM
We know that wuji Kyurem separated into Zekrom and Reshiram which is exactly the same like wuji separated into yin and yang.

That has not been proven yet. However, while each dragon could very well represent these concepts, Kyurem has no known biological relation with Reshiram and Zekrom. The only sign of a relationship is Kyurem's forme changes to take on characteristics of 1 of the other dragons, but that still does not mean they were all originally 1 dragon.

EDIT: Just saw this on Serebii.net! Kyurem's Formes will remain Dragon/Ice-type.

http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml

Anako
March 30th, 2012, 01:51 PM
That has not been proven yet. However, while each dragon could very well represent these concepts, Kyurem has no known biological relation with Reshiram and Zekrom. The only sign of a relationship is Kyurem's forme changes to take on characteristics of 1 of the other dragons, but that still does not mean they were all originally 1 dragon.

EDIT: Just saw this on Serebii.net! Kyurem's Formes will remain Dragon/Ice-type.


Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I saw that. Then again they can't add three types to a Pokemon so it either had to be Ice/Dragon, Ice/Fire and Ice/Electric, or Dragon/Fire and Dragon/Electric.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 30th, 2012, 06:53 PM
^ Maybe they will change the typings for the forme next generation like they did with Rotom...though I don't see why they didn't now...Maybe they will have Resh and Zek's signature moves.

wombateiro
March 31st, 2012, 01:28 AM
I thought earlier they will remain dragon/ice because dragon is their main type and they are still partially wuji Kyurem - ice typing symbolizes wuji.
They will probably have abilities to boost their electric/fire attacks, to boost their yin or yang energy from Zekrom or Reshiram.

voicerocker
March 31st, 2012, 07:32 AM
Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I saw that. Then again they can't add three types to a Pokemon.

I think the typing just shows it's still Kyurem and not a fusion as some people thought. At least we can move past the "Pokemon fusion" theory, I hope.

^ Maybe they will change the typings for the forme next generation like they did with Rotom...though I don't see why they didn't now...Maybe they will have Resh and Zek's signature moves.

Why would they need to change the types? Rotom's type was changed because they felt it made more sense for it to keep its Electric-type versus still being a Ghost after it possesses an object. Makes sense enough.

Kyurem's types were just revealed yesterday. I doubt they'll be changing them.

I thought earlier they will remain dragon/ice because dragon is their main type and they are still partially wuji Kyurem - ice typing symbolizes wuji.
They will probably have abilities to boost their electric/fire attacks, to boost their yin or yang energy from Zekrom or Reshiram.

Since this is still generation 5, I don't think they'll give Kyurem new abilities, which would prevent it from being used against B/W players. With the upcoming Keldeo event supposedly being for both B/W and B2/W2, that seems to mean that the games will be compatible to an extent. I'm still betting on a new hold item to boost maybe ice and fire attacks, and another that boosts ice and electric attacks or something like it.

IcyIce
March 31st, 2012, 08:24 AM
Well how about 2 new moves? Maybe Blazeice and Voltice. Something in that nature. Giving it a 2 type attack. That would be new but over powered I would think. Sorry if someone has said this already

voicerocker
March 31st, 2012, 09:47 AM
Well how about 2 new moves? Maybe Blazeice and Voltice. Something in that nature. Giving it a 2 type attack. That would be new but over powered I would think. Sorry if someone has said this already

White Kyurem will be getting Ice Burn and Black Kyurem will get Freeze Shock. Both Ice-type moves.

wombateiro
March 31st, 2012, 11:22 AM
Since this is still generation 5, I don't think they'll give Kyurem new abilities, which would prevent it from being used against B/W players. With the upcoming Keldeo event supposedly being for both B/W and B2/W2, that seems to mean that the games will be compatible to an extent. I'm still betting on a new hold item to boost maybe ice and fire attacks, and another that boosts ice and electric attacks or something like it.

New Kyurem's forms won't be able to be traded to B/W, so I don't see any reason there couldn't be new abilities for them because they won't be able to be traded anyway. When Pokemon changes back to its previous form, its ability is changed back too, so Kyurem would have its Pressure again after changing back to original form.

649
March 31st, 2012, 12:11 PM
I really don't think Kyurem will have anything to do with Fire or Electric types.

The forms are still Ice/Dragon, and the specialty moves are still Ice.

Freeze Shock has a chance of Paralysis, and Ice Burn has a chance of Burn, that's all that will change.

Maybe new stats but I doubt it, Kyurem has good defenses compared to Zekrom's Attack and Reshiram's Special Attack, so it'll probably stay a defensive pokemon to balance things out.

But I can see its BST boosting, considering it was oddly low before (660). So maybe it will indeed get a boost to its Attack/Special Attack while still having solid defenses.

voicerocker
March 31st, 2012, 01:19 PM
New Kyurem's forms won't be able to be traded to B/W, so I don't see any reason there couldn't be new abilities for them because they won't be able to be traded anyway. When Pokemon changes back to its previous form, its ability is changed back too, so Kyurem would have its Pressure again after changing back to original form.

But for battling purposes, it would need an ability that already exists. Think about it this way: No Pokemon right now can learn or use Ice Burn or Freeze Shock, so why were they included in B/W? Chances are that it's because they knew they were giving Kyurem new formes to use those moves. That makes the most sense to me, otherwise, they could have left those moves out of the game and them be a surprise.

wombateiro
March 31st, 2012, 02:38 PM
But for battling purposes, it would need an ability that already exists. Think about it this way: No Pokemon right now can learn or use Ice Burn or Freeze Shock, so why were they included in B/W? Chances are that it's because they knew they were giving Kyurem new formes to use those moves. That makes the most sense to me, otherwise, they could have left those moves out of the game and them be a surprise.

You're right about those two moves, they were already programmed in B/W to make possible to trade Kyurem from B2/W2 to B/W without need of changing moveset, but new abilities could be exclusives for B2/W2, just like new Kyurem's forms. Two Kyurem's forms with Pressure would be boring, they should have abilities which would make them more different from each other.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
March 31st, 2012, 02:43 PM
You're right about those two moves, they were already programmed in B/W to make possible to trade Kyurem from B2/W2 to B/W without need of changing moveset, but new abilities could be exclusives for B2/W2, just like new Kyurem's forms. Two Kyurem's forms with Pressure would be boring, they should have abilities which would make them more different from each other.
In that case they should just give them Reshiram and Zekrom's abilities since it has their "genes"(according to the anime), than their signature moves could be powered up as well, creating a powerful attack.

voicerocker
March 31st, 2012, 07:21 PM
You're right about those two moves, they were already programmed in B/W to make possible to trade Kyurem from B2/W2 to B/W without need of changing moveset, but new abilities could be exclusives for B2/W2, just like new Kyurem's forms. Two Kyurem's forms with Pressure would be boring, they should have abilities which would make them more different from each other.

But new abilities would bar Kyurem from battles with Black and White. I don't they'll want to do that. I'm starting to suspect they'll get Turboblaze and Teravolt. This would make them more like Reshiram and Zekrom, and not have the "boring" Pressure, which is actually a pretty good ability.

Xander Olivieri
March 31st, 2012, 07:51 PM
But new abilities would bar Kyurem from battles with Black and White. I don't they'll want to do that. I'm starting to suspect they'll get Turboblaze and Teravolt. This would make them more like Reshiram and Zekrom, and not have the "boring" Pressure, which is actually a pretty good ability.

This point is fairly moot as backwards they most likely wouldn't be able to battle against one another, and if they could, you most likely couldn't use the new forms at all and would only be able to use Regular Kyurem.

I can't remember if Origin Giratina, Rotom Forms, or Sky Form Shaymin could be battled against in D/P or if they revered/got he note you couldn't battle when they appeared.

Never tried to battle Platinum with Pearl/Diamond so I don't know.

voicerocker
March 31st, 2012, 08:27 PM
This point is fairly moot as backwards they most likely wouldn't be able to battle against one another, and if they could, you most likely couldn't use the new forms at all and would only be able to use Regular Kyurem.

I can't remember if Origin Giratina, Rotom Forms, or Sky Form Shaymin could be battled against in D/P or if they revered/got he note you couldn't battle when they appeared.

Never tried to battle Platinum with Pearl/Diamond so I don't know.

I've battled my brother's Diamond game with my Platinum and was able to use my Origin Forme Giratina. On the Diamond game, it had the Altered Forme's sprite, but retained Origin Forme's stats and Levitate ability, plus my Origin Forme sprite was unchanged. But from what I understand, that forme and Rotom and Shaymin's weren't able to battle through Wi-Fi. I figure that will happen with Kyurem as well, but I think normal wireless battles won't be a problem for it.

I'm not saying that White/Black Kyurem will be totally compatible with the previous games cuz that's just not possible. I'm just saying that B/W will probably still be able to battle B2/W2, just like Diamond and Pearl could battle HG/SS or Platinum.

wombateiro
April 1st, 2012, 03:08 AM
Hold on... if there are Ice Burn and Freeze Shock hidden in B/W coding, maybe there are new abilities for new Kyurem's forms as well? Or maybe Teravolt and Turboblaze are programmed in B/W to boost electric/fire attacks but only when new Kyurem's forms will be using them in battles between B/W and B2/W2.

black kyurem786
April 1st, 2012, 09:10 AM
I think the tubes only appear when Black/White Kyurem are charging their signature move, (Freeze Shock&Ice Burn).

Anyways CANT WAIT FOR POKEMON BLACK 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Atomic Pirate
April 1st, 2012, 10:15 AM
It just figures that the new Kyurem formes have the same typing. GF sure hates the fans.

MarioManH
April 1st, 2012, 11:30 AM
I feel like its right to keep the same types for Kyurem, some new moves would be pretty nice though.

Xander Olivieri
April 11th, 2012, 04:52 PM
They release another trailer and it has Kyurem's overdrive activating. Odds are its just visual in the game since he can activate it willingly.

Also Kyurem was able to use Electric attacks in Black and Fire attacks in White. Will be interesting if it translates to the games.

Screen shots show Overdrive forms in normal battle. So looks like overdrive may be visual effect only.