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Pokemon_Hero
April 4th, 2012, 06:43 AM
Revealing that there is a 6th generation? Because there is a mini-arc saga after the league probably, so it means that he next league is in the 6th generation?

And the league is quite close, after he has already 6 badges...

Kenshin5
April 4th, 2012, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure exactly what you mean since the title and topic aren't exactly clear. They can reveal the next generation whether he wins the Unova league or not. And if anyone knows the meaning behind something and what it's going to mean for the fans then it is definitely the writers. They revealed pokemon in anime prior to leagues of future gens i.e. Togepi and Kecleon so I don't see why winning or losing the league has any bearing on what the pokemon co. as a whole decides to reveal.

Just because he got his sixth badge like a month ago doesn't mean he is anywhere near the league. They can easily do fillers, Don tours and so on. If you remember it took a considerable amount of time from Candice to Volkner, so I would assume at this point we are close to the league, maybe we are maybe were aren't. All we know is that we are at Twist Mountain and we are waiting for Tepig to evolve into Pignite.

Xander Olivieri
April 4th, 2012, 05:02 PM
I'm not sure exactly what you mean since the title and topic aren't exactly clear. They can reveal the next generation whether he wins the Unova league or not. And if anyone knows the meaning behind something and what it's going to mean for the fans then it is definitely the writers. They revealed pokemon in anime prior to leagues of future gens i.e. Togepi and Kecleon so I don't see why winning or losing the league has any bearing on what the pokemon co. as a whole decides to reveal.

Just because he got his sixth badge like a month ago doesn't mean he is anywhere near the league. They can easily do fillers, Don tours and so on. If you remember it took a considerable amount of time from Candice to Volkner, so I would assume at this point we are close to the league, maybe we are maybe were aren't. All we know is that we are at Twist Mountain and we are waiting for Tepig to evolve into Pignite.

And Swaddloon into Leavanny.

They are using Don George a lot more, and they still haven't tried to tie Team Plasma back in yet. So there are still parts of the story that haven't been released yet. Plasma is less likely to happen due to their important debut was cancelled.

Otter Mii-kun
April 4th, 2012, 05:54 PM
I'm pretty sure a 6th Generation will come out sooner or later, regardless of whether or not Ash wins the Unova League, like Kenshin said. Signs that a new generation is about to be created usually include new Pokémon that were not introduced during the current generation.

As for Ash winning the League, that's a big IF. It's very unlikely, considering he was completely reset when he started his journey through Unova. At this point, it could take another year from now before Ash finally gets to enter the Unova League.

Kenshin5
April 4th, 2012, 06:24 PM
And Swaddloon into Leavanny.

They are using Don George a lot more, and they still haven't tried to tie Team Plasma back in yet. So there are still parts of the story that haven't been released yet. Plasma is less likely to happen due to their important debut was cancelled.
Not really waiting for the Swadloon since we know it is going to evolve next week.

Don George tournaments seem to be the flavor of Unova and the replacement of former Contests. So I think we can expect around 2-3 more before the league, if not at least one and that will take probably a month anyways since the Don Tours comprise about 4 episodes. Plasma is up in the air for me until we see some signs, which they should have did with the Black Hero episode imo. So Plasma doesn't seem like it will really have much significance if any which is really said since it seems like they were going to have some promise.

I'm pretty sure a 6th Generation will come out sooner or later, regardless of whether or not Ash wins the Unova League, like Kenshin said. Signs that a new generation is about to be created usually include new Pokémon that were not introduced during the current generation.

As for Ash winning the League, that's a big IF. It's very unlikely, considering he was completely reset when he started his journey through Unova. At this point, it could take another year from now before Ash finally gets to enter the Unova League.
Yeah so if we see even a hint either here or the games like XD then that is more of an indicator. Although obviously we saw Blaziken in the league, so that's a double indicator. Yeah I thought this best shot from a maturation as a trainer stand point was in Sinnoh and he still failed to achieve victory, thanks in no part to Trollbias.


Even if he does win the league it doesn't really change anything for me in terms of were will be be at in terms of pacing that determines if the gen is close to being up or not. They could easily do a Champions League like mentioned in Unova. Or some post-main arc journey like with Orange Islands and Frontier. It would seem pokemon has there generations in a usual 4 year between gens so I'd expect the next one in Japan around 2013 or 2014 pending on how fan this generation is. Like Otter Mii-kun said I could expect we will be in Unova for at least another year.

Wings Don't Cry
April 4th, 2012, 07:47 PM
Did you forget that they had like 50 episodes between the 7th and 8th badge in Diamond and Pearl? Also we still don't know yet if B2/W2 will feature new regions or areas that Ash and co will travel to.

Pokemon_Hero
April 4th, 2012, 08:34 PM
It seems people here are not updated. The writers said that the best wishes saga will be shorter, so the league should occur very soon. He got 6 badges in 70 episodes, even faster than Hoenn(6 badges in 85 eps), and in AG the league was in 127-132.
As for league, he won't win the league. He can't even win little tournaments like the don clubs, with only 16 compitetors.

As for the 6th gen, think a minute. If he won't win the league, that'll mean there is another league. And another league won't be in the BW saga, so-- it will actually reveal that there is another generation, because he HAS to win someday a league.

Kenshin5
April 5th, 2012, 06:44 AM
It seems people here are not updated. The writers said that the best wishes saga will be shorter, so the league should occur very soon. He got 6 badges in 70 episodes, even faster than Hoenn(6 badges in 85 eps), and in AG the league was in 127-132.
As for league, he won't win the league. He can't even win little tournaments like the don clubs, with only 16 compitetors.

As for the 6th gen, think a minute. If he won't win the league, that'll mean there is another league. And another league won't be in the BW saga, so-- it will actually reveal that there is another generation, because he HAS to win someday a league.
Short then what? Just about anything can be shorter then the Sinnoh Saga. So Unova could easily last one more year and still be short. Don Tournaments shouldn't really play a role on if he wins or if he doesn't. Has Trip won one? No and the fact is Ash has advanced farther in the tournaments then he has.

No, that doesn't mean anything, whether he wins or not they can easily have a post main arc. Another league i.e. Orange Islands and Battle Frontier were separate entities. Even though they were in the same generations such as Original and Advance. If he wins or loses it can just as easily be a Orange Islands or Battle Frontier type like in the past. So I don't know why you assume they will jump right to the 6th Generation.

Pokemon_Hero
April 5th, 2012, 07:16 AM
Short then what? Just about anything can be shorter then the Sinnoh Saga. So Unova could easily last one more year and still be short. Don Tournaments shouldn't really play a role on if he wins or if he doesn't. Has Trip won one? No and the fact is Ash has advanced farther in the tournaments then he has.

No, that doesn't mean anything, whether he wins or not they can easily have a post main arc. Another league i.e. Orange Islands and Battle Frontier were separate entities. Even though they were in the same generations such as Original and Advance. If he wins or loses it can just as easily be a Orange Islands or Battle Frontier type like in the past. So I don't know why you assume they will jump right to the 6th Generation.
You didn't get my point here, I didn't say they would jump right to the 6th generation. After the league, if he will lose, they will have a mini-arc, like you said, BF or something else. But what after that? A new generation, right? Because he wouldn't win a league till then.

So that's what I'm saying- if he loses the Unova league, it will actually be a confirmation that there is another generation(even without showing a 6th gen pokemon), because the BW saga won't include another league, and therefore, the next league will be in the 6th generation.

Kenshin5
April 5th, 2012, 07:43 AM
Again rather he wins the league or not they will jump into a mini arc until the next generation, pending the time is there which hinges on the pacing. That's what I was implying the whole time... If can slow down the pacing if they so desire, but it doesn't seem like they will.

No it does not, win or lose it doesn't make a differences a new generation will happen regardless of what the outcome; when ever the franchise desires it and thinks its time. Just because the pace usually hints us to when a new generation occurs doesn't mean it plays a determining factor. Anime could not exist and we will still get a 6th Generation. Also why wouldn't there be another league? Its been that way since the inception Indigo, Silver, Ever Grande, Lilly of the Valley.

Lornami
April 5th, 2012, 09:01 AM
If Ash doesn't win the league -> There will be a 6th generation of Pokemon.
If Ash wins the league -> There will be be a 6th generation of Pokemon.

Y/Y?

Pokemon_Hero
April 5th, 2012, 09:16 AM
If Ash doesn't win the league -> There will be a 6th generation of Pokemon.
If Ash wins the league -> There will be be a 6th generation of Pokemon.

Y/Y?
No, it's not really true. When Ash will win a league, this will probably be in the last generation.
The 6th generation starts in Sep' 2014, and the league will happen much earlier, maybe even in 2012. It's 99% that he won't win the league, just so his journey will continue till then

Kenshin5
April 5th, 2012, 09:52 AM
It's not true or false until we see it, which is why you said "probably".

The franchise doesn't revolve around Ash and Pikachu but they are part of the franchise and are tools for advertising their product. So if he wins it may be more telling that it is near the end of his journey not the end of the franchise as whole. They can always have another protagonist fill the role, they just haven't saw it fit to do so yet.

And as far as the franchise is going we should be in for more pokemon for years to come due to the high amount of sales of games and other merchandise.

Joshawott
April 5th, 2012, 12:13 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but by no stretch of the imagination is that true. The games are in no way tied to the anime. Also, need I remind you that this is Pokémon we're talking about? For all we know we'll have up to 20 generations!

Demon.
April 5th, 2012, 01:40 PM
Did anyone actually doubt that they would make a 6th generation??

Otter Mii-kun
April 5th, 2012, 02:31 PM
So if he wins it may be more telling that it is near the end of his journey not the end of the franchise as whole. They can always have another protagonist fill the role, they just haven't saw it fit to do so yet. Many fans have been calling for Ash to be replaced by a different main character, saying that he has gotten boring, among other things.

For all we know we'll have up to 20 generations!That might sound like a bit of a stretch, but that's entirely possible. Much like how the Scooby-Doo franchise has had several TV show incarnations throughout its long life (42+ years), the US version of Wheel of Fortune is still running in some form after 37 solid years (the first 16½ years on daytime network television, and the past 28 years in nighttime syndication, in which the syndicated run's first 8 years ran concurrently with the daytime version), and new Mario games continue to be released after 26+ years. Not to mention Jeopardy! having several incarnations since its original version went on the air 48 years ago (with the current US syndicated version running for the past 27 years.) Some media franchises just won't die.

Outkin
April 5th, 2012, 02:40 PM
Getting a new protag would be nice, then that would give the writers a reason to let ash win at last. Theres tons of things they could do before a new generation though, misadventures, new filler region, go back to an old one for a while....they will find some way to prolong the show until the day pokemon dies (Which I find unlikely to happen soon when it's a pure cash flow)

botface23
April 5th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Have we forgot Ash's main goal since episode one? Personally I believe that if he wins or if he looses he'll continue towards becoming a Pokemon Master.

The Void
April 5th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Well during the time Ash lost in the Kanto League, Johto wasn't revealed yet, so they created a mini-arc filler region called the Orange Islands for Ash to travel around until Johto >.<

This is probably what Ash would do after the Pokemon League, go to some other mini region like maybe even Orre, but who knows, it's up to the writers anyway.

NiallC
April 10th, 2012, 11:19 AM
From what I can remember in Kanto/Orange Islands they used Togepi, Donphan and Marill to hint at a new region and generation. In Johto they had Harrison with Blaziken and Kecleon. May caught Munchlax, Brock got Bonsly and James got Mime Jr during the AG series. During the DP series they had the Zoruark movie to hint at the new region/generation. As long as they do so in Unova it will mean a new generation is on the cards.

Everyones main problem is that if Ash wins the league it may mean the end but for all we know he may win the league, realise he is now one of the best trainers around and may want to retry the Kanto League as that is where he started. Or try for Champion status....

TheFuturePokemon
April 10th, 2012, 11:39 AM
Well during the time Ash lost in the Kanto League, Johto wasn't revealed yet, so they created a mini-arc filler region called the Orange Islands for Ash to travel around until Johto >.<

Whhat Johto was reveled at the very first episode.

Ho-Oh~

Dooney
April 22nd, 2012, 02:29 AM
I think he'll win the Unova League and then travel the eastern side of Unova, as he trains to battle the Elite Four (the Champion League that was so heavily hinted in the DP Saga) and then lose at the Champion/Last Elite member. After that, Gen VI.

weedle_mchairybug
April 22nd, 2012, 02:41 AM
I think he'll win the Unova League and then travel the eastern side of Unova, as he trains to battle the Elite Four (the Champion League that was so heavily hinted in the DP Saga) and then lose at the Champion/Last Elite member. After that, Gen VI.

Yeah, and let's just hope they don't screw us over in the Unova League like they did in the Sinnoh League when they had to make Ash's last opponent possess legendaries just to ensure that he lost, even when Pikachu already won against a legendary before (Brandon's Regice). While its good that he at least advanced to Top 4 this time around, rather than be forced to lose in the Top 8 again like Hoenn, we still need to have the Champion League, and depending on whether he even meets the conditions of becoming a Pokemon Master afterwards, or even if he doesn't, have him leave the show. It's getting very irritating that they don't even bother to elaborate much on his goal, and give conflicting evidence towards it. I don't care if it was geared to little kids, that's still no excuse for them to not do so. When I was little, I was rigid in my line of thinking and felt it HAD to be one way, and nothing else.

psyanic
April 22nd, 2012, 06:48 AM
I'm sure someone had already said this, but there's the possibility Ash could win and have a Gen VI. They could dump him and start anew. In my opinion, they should have dumped him after Sinnoh since Unova is new and all and it's a perfect time to introduce a new character. Besides, it makes sense for them to have a new protagonist. So I won't be surprised if they do end up replacing him after this season and start a filler arc with someone else. Summarized: Ash could win and they'd still have a new generation out.

I really wish Ash could become a Champion and just leave. He's getting annoying with his static personality as well as the 'reset' button. Other shows have replaced the protagonist and they've done well.

Kenshin5
April 22nd, 2012, 07:24 AM
Yeah, and let's just hope they don't screw us over in the Unova League like they did in the Sinnoh League when they had to make Ash's last opponent possess legendaries just to ensure that he lost, even when Pikachu already won against a legendary before (Brandon's Regice). While its good that he at least advanced to Top 4 this time around, rather than be forced to lose in the Top 8 again like Hoenn, we still need to have the Champion League, and depending on whether he even meets the conditions of becoming a Pokemon Master afterwards, or even if he doesn't, have him leave the show. It's getting very irritating that they don't even bother to elaborate much on his goal, and give conflicting evidence towards it. I don't care if it was geared to little kids, that's still no excuse for them to not do so. When I was little, I was rigid in my line of thinking and felt it HAD to be one way, and nothing else.
The Tobias thing did seem like a cheap write off when we could all tell he had the momentum going into the league and then after beating Paul. They never really defined to us what a pokemon master means though, it was always one of those things where they wanted us the views and fans at large to come up with what it means. So for Ash it could mean something different then what we thought. Like you said they really don't elaborate as to what the real goal of Ash is. Even if it is animed at kids I don't see the excuse for making no progression, other children shows show character progression.

I'm sure someone had already said this, but there's the possibility Ash could win and have a Gen VI. They could dump him and start anew. In my opinion, they should have dumped him after Sinnoh since Unova is new and all and it's a perfect time to introduce a new character. Besides, it makes sense for them to have a new protagonist. So I won't be surprised if they do end up replacing him after this season and start a filler arc with someone else. Summarized: Ash could win and they'd still have a new generation out.

I really wish Ash could become a Champion and just leave. He's getting annoying with his static personality as well as the 'reset' button. Other shows have replaced the protagonist and they've done well.
I don't really see why him winning would automatically mean they have to start anew with a new trainer. The win could be a point where there is a point of no return and he keeps progressing with no renerfs, then they can introduce new characters and use him as a mentor role as well as a "master trainer" They don't have to keep him staticy if they actually work with him instead of just going about the "Hey new gen lets give him the same noob personality and same noob battler". Whose to say if he does win that they won't do the same to another protagonist for years to come and reset that protag.

psyanic
April 22nd, 2012, 08:59 AM
I don't really see why him winning would automatically mean they have to start anew with a new trainer. The win could be a point where there is a point of no return and he keeps progressing with no renerfs, then they can introduce new characters and use him as a mentor role as well as a "master trainer."

Actually, winning would prove his development. It would mark his improvement from the first league he entered, where he lost because he couldn't get his Charizard to listen to him. His development is very minimal, but it's still there. He can still battle and train; it's his brain that's a bit knocked up and he gets forgetful. So winning is clear progression and marks Ash's 'maturity' in a sense, or at least as a trainer. And I just realized that pretty much agreed with your point.

However, I'd imagine Champions have other duties, though they could still travel. Unless they have a filler arc with Ash training some kid, I think it's safe to say that they'll stick with the old formula and keep a journey thing going on. That's probably the best way to spotlight new Pokemon and new Gyms, with Ash not really going to battle them since he'd be stuck in Unova. At least, that's just how I see Champions. I mean, you wouldn't expect to see Cynthia in Kanto, do you?

Odds are, they'd do the same to a new protagonist, but at least their personality would be different with a different cast. There's only so much Pikachu I can take, anyway. Hopefully, though, the writers might have learned a thing or two by now and decided to actually put in development, which might in turn start a trend where they start with a new protagonist every region and with that comes character development, etc. Hell, Jimmy from Raikou: Legend of Thunder! was an interesting character, even though he didn't have much development and I'd still prefer to watch him than Ash.

Kenshin5
April 25th, 2012, 07:37 PM
Actually, winning would prove his development. It would mark his improvement from the first league he entered, where he lost because he couldn't get his Charizard to listen to him. His development is very minimal, but it's still there. He can still battle and train; it's his brain that's a bit knocked up and he gets forgetful. So winning is clear progression and marks Ash's 'maturity' in a sense, or at least as a trainer. And I just realized that pretty much agreed with your point.
He assuredly developes no doubt about that since he has had gradual improvement in every league he has entered in and he has grown as a trainer getting his pokemon to listen. What I was trying to get out is yes this is a clear sign, but what will the writers do with this moment? Will they make him a noob once again, will they set him on a path to being a world champ(if they have that), will he compete in Champions Leagues? The road for his future seems unclear but the progression he has made is definitely not.

However, I'd imagine Champions have other duties, though they could still travel. Unless they have a filler arc with Ash training some kid, I think it's safe to say that they'll stick with the old formula and keep a journey thing going on. That's probably the best way to spotlight new Pokemon and new Gyms, with Ash not really going to battle them since he'd be stuck in Unova. At least, that's just how I see Champions. Imean, you wouldn't expect to see Cynthia in Kanto, do you?
They will definitely stick with the old formula since it has proved marketable in the past, and as definitely a great way to showcase the new region and pokemon in it. But I would like too see them throw a wrench into it like they did with the games and change things up a bit. I think Conference Champion and Regional Champ differ a bit. From what I understand the Conference Champ has earned the right to face the Elite 4, but isn't apart of the Elite 4. That means they are not bound to the duties of the Pokemon League of that region if that is the case. And Champions travel all the time in games and anime. Look at Lance he is part of the Pokemon G Men traveling to Hoenn and I am sure other places on top of traveling abroad in Johto. Cynthia travels a multitude of places in the game such as Johto and Unova outside of Sinnoh. So it's not like the Champions are stationary they just have the option to move around. Now if Ash took a Frontier Brain position then that may have actually be a bit travel restrictive though, but winning the conference doesn't really seem that way too me.

Odds are, they'd do the same to a new protagonist, but at least their personality would be different with a different cast. There's only so much Pikachu I can take, anyway. Hopefully, though, the writers might have learned a thing or two by now and decided to actually put in development, which might in turn start a trend where they start with a new protagonist every region and with that comes character development, etc. Hell, Jimmy from Raikou: Legend of Thunder! was an interesting character, even though he didn't have much development and I'd still prefer to watch him than Ash.
I am sure they would knowing they have done it for the past 14 years. No Pikachu would be great, I think that's the best fanservice a repeat watcher could get. I would have loved what you suggested, but are they willing to implement it is the real concern and question. Honestly though at this point I think they could gamble with a new style or two shows(they probably have enough staff for two) that they run the same generic wash rinse and repeat stuff then they show a new type with new protagonists and new fresh story lines each generation.

mootjuh117
May 2nd, 2012, 02:58 AM
Think about it:
He was in the top-16 in the Johto League
He was in the top-8 in the Hoenn League.
He was in the top-4 in the Sinnoh League, which he could have won if that overpowered guy wasn't there.
I assume the will be in the finals in the Unova League and will win the next league in the next generation.

ShadowStriatonTriad
May 2nd, 2012, 06:57 AM
As long as Cilan is in the generation 6 series I'm okay with it.

mootjuh117
May 2nd, 2012, 02:20 PM
I'd rather have Brock back, but I think it's ok if they keep Cilan.

magianangel6
April 21st, 2013, 04:53 AM
ash loses the league then the show focuses on ash and the others taking on team plasma n and ghetsis

Mr Cat Dog
April 21st, 2013, 12:22 PM
Please don't revive threads that have been dead for over a month. Thanks.

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